Thesis: The reason that women are so confusing to men, and even to themselves is that women have two completely different relationships with a guy: brain and body. Guys have a much tighter bond between brain and body so don't really understand this difference and this is where most of the confusion comes from.
I came upon this realization recently. I had been taking some performance enhancing substances earlier in the year and this had lead to me being a bit of a superman in bed. I stopped taking them because of health concerns and things went back to normal. However, my LTR just couldn't get into it unless it was how I was previously. This tripped me out. I had been alpha widowed by myself! I had a long deep talk with her about this and she said that her brain got it that she still loved me, but her body was rejecting me, it wasn't what it craved.
I really thought this was amusing as all hell and she proceeded to tell me that a lot of women had this kind of thing going on where there body was like a whole separate thing going on with them that they communicated with regularly but their bodies didn't always want the same things as their mind.
Along similar lines, a few years back I had bought some pheromone perfume off the Internet and she got freaked out when I put it on because, to her body, it seemed like I was a different guy ,even though she knew in her head it was me.
This got me back to thinking about all the fun with women I had had in my pre-LTR days and how it had all worked back in the day. It got me thinking about the way women's brains and bodies work differently.
So this lead me back to thinking about the AF/BB paradigm:
^
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M BB/Friend LTR Material?
I
N
D Creep AF
|
---Body Relationship ------------>
The Y axis is your relationship with her mind, the X axis is relationship with her body. In the low X and Low Y you have "Creep". In the High X and Low Y you have "Alpha Fucks". In the High Y and Low X you have "Beta Bucks". In the High Y and High X you might even have some LTR material on your hands.
The way you communicate with her mind is just how you'd establish a friendly relationship with any member of the human race. Cooperate, talk about common interests, share a joke, help each other out with work, etc.
The way you communicate with her body is to touch her, evoke her emotions, her fascination, and or respect for you through her impressions of your confidence and assertiveness, or how you look and, most importantly, how you are in bed. When she shivers when you look at her or touch her, that's you talking with her body.
This is why women will fuck a guy they should totally hate, because their body is addicted to him. This is why they can't get excited about nice guys who haven't formed the proper relationship to their bodies. Their body just isn't into it. Guys are more integrated. For example, guys have a hard time being nice to women who are ugly and are too nice to good looking women.
I think this also explains the male/female difference with regards to porn. Guys brains are more directly connected to their anatomy, while women have to tell their body about things it's not directly experiencing and they don't have the high bandwidth connection that men have between visual stimulus and body. That's why women are more into erotica and fantasizing, because that's more low-level and hooked into their body.
This is also why women cheating is so much more serious than men cheating. If a women's body gets away from her, and she becomes an alpha widow, all the hamstering in the world is not going to bring her body back to loving the guy she cheated on. Guys don't really have that sort of problem because the normal mind relationship and the body relationship are more integrated and they can adapt their bodies to different relationships more easily.
I think this explains a lot of the failure to escalate stuff that causes guys to end up in the friend zone. Anyway, very beta TRP theory here. Let me know what you all think.
Oro_077 7y ago
it sounds like the ana karenina factor anyway, thank you
beachbbqlover 7y ago
I recently watched a video discussing how separate the left and right hemispheres of the brain are.
The left tends to rule over all speech, which the right tends to prefer faces and nonverbal communication.
I'm curious if the two premises correlate.
[deleted] 7y ago
Occams razor would be that they don't have a conscious mind
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throwawaynumbr3 7y ago
haha!
I guess that kinda explains why they say one thing and do another
getRedPill 7y ago
What's that pheromones perfume you talk about?
throw_it_away_like 7y ago
Chikara. I wouldn't use it though, except for experimenting with the female brain.
[deleted] 7y ago
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throw_it_away_like 7y ago
They do something. Whether it will actually make a woman sexually interested is another matter. It made my LTR's body think I was a different guy, so this is probably not something that's particularly useful for dating, etc.
[deleted] 7y ago
Insightful. I think this could be tied with Athol Kay's ideas about LTRs, in that he thinks for a successful one there needs to be some 'beta' behaviours mixed in with the alpha behaviours that keep her tingly. The word 'beta' has entirely negative connotations on this sub, but I see it in the larger alpha/beta/delta/sigma domain as being good in some circumstances and bad in others. For getting sex from lots of women it is generally negative, but small amounts in LTRs help stabilize them.
So you talk about body connections and mind connections, and of course these 'connections' are behaviours, and those behaviours elicit psychological and hormonal (dopamine and oxytocin particularly) responses.
So I think you are probably right, and this is a useful and interesting new angle on what Kay talked about.
dr_warlock 7y ago
Women need dissociation between their [conscious] mind and body so they can have the ability to hamster. So they can become the woman they need to be.
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"Women are like water. They take the shape of the containers they fill"
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There was a study where they placed women in a chair vaginally attached to some electrical probes. The scientists then flashed images of sexual activity (heterosexual, gay, straight, and animal), and asked her if she felt aroused. Every time the woman said "no", the probes detected vaginal arousal in the form of lubrication. Men never had that problem.
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Women often times have no conscious idea that they're aroused. Not only that, they can't explain why they are. They just are. Women need not know why they act the way they do to be successful in the sexual market place. They are brain-dead zombies to the feelz.
Read more: http://www.redpilldoctor.com/why-you-shouldnt-explain-female-nature-to-women/
Read more: https://illimitablemen.com/2015/06/30/the-nature-of-women/
redearththeory 7y ago
This article The Enduring Enigma of Female Sexual Desire is largely vague, bluepill nonsense with one important point.
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“Often for women, genital, physical arousal precedes the psychological experience of desire,” Diamond says. “Whereas in men, desire precedes arousal.”
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When she says "the psychological experience of desire" this means that the woman realizes in her conscious mind (or admits) that she is attracted. So what this is saying is that women are turned on (aroused) without the recognition of their conscious mind, which follows only after, if at all.
[deleted] 7y ago
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redearththeory 7y ago
Attraction/arousal is a response generated by a more primitive part of the brain, like hunger or fear. This is why it's not controlled by logic and the conscious mind. Try logically explaining to someone that they shouldn't be hungry. The interesting aspect here is how women's conscious is so unaware of their response, unlike hunger or attraction in men.
awalt_cupcake 7y ago
holy shit. they literally cannot help themselves.
tuzki 7y ago
You can't logic your way into pussy. It either is, or is not.
manakiii 7y ago
Uh, maybe they said no because women feel more ashamed of sexually interest and naturally lie in a scenario i!e this?
[deleted] 7y ago
Yes. It is a bit of a stretch to talk about there being no connection (or a poor connection) between women's mind and body. It is more accurate to say women's conscious mind.
We could take the 'mind' and 'body' axes as 'love' and 'lust', and see how that plays out.
Gonzaga, G. C., Haselton, M. G., Smurda, J., Sian, D. M., and Poore, J. C. (2008). Love, desire, and the suppression of thoughts of romantic alternatives. Evolution and Human Behavior, 29:119–126.
[deleted] 7y ago
On the AF side, which you show as being 'not LTR material' then again this is well supported, and the basis of the AF/BB dynamic. For example
Pillsworth, E. G. and Haselton, M. G. (2006). Male sexual attractiveness predicts differential ovulatory shifts in female extra-pair prediction and male mate retention. Evolution and Human Behavior, 27:247–258.
Very masculine, AF guys may not be good LTR material:
Edelstein, R. S., van Anders, S. M., Chopik, W. J., Goldey, K. L., and Wardecker, B. M. (2014). Dyadic associations between testosterone and relationship quality in couples. Horm Behav, 65(4):401–7.
JackGetsIt 7y ago
I really like your post and your theory.
I had a girl that was really into me and I made her write a note to me that basically said what she was feeling at the time. The note said (and I'm paraphrasing) "I will always be faithful and I will always be attracted to you, I'm aware that LTR's lose magic and I will fight that and keep loving you and being attractive to you because I'm deeply connected to you on multiple levels...."
When she later broke up with me I showed her the note. She looked me in the eye and said: I just don't feel the same as when I wrote that note."
I would argue the conscious side of a women is never really in control. Their logical side exists but it will always be overridden by the body side of her mind. Women actually enslave their logic side to serve their emotional side. So if a guy she's with stops speaking to the 'body brain' by not having sex or by losing SMV then she taps onto the logical side and asks it to justify the emotions. She might start finding flaws that were always there but she ignored. She might go seeking out more details about your life to find reasons to dislike you. She will find female friends that dislike you to justify her next move... Which is normally onto another penis.
Have you ever seen a man get cut off in rush hour traffic and become a complete slave to his anger and shut his mind off and just go into primal rage mode? I think women operate like this in regards to sexuality but on a regular basis. This is why women are always checking with their friends if they should date a guy or not. They genuinely don't know.
Let's use some different words as well. Instead of 'mind' lets say 'forebrain' and instead of 'body' let say 'hindbrain.' The female hindbrain is the deepest oldest most primary part of herself. This is the the brain you want to have dialogue with. This is why men drive motorcycles, work out, practice game, gain wealthy; these smart men are trying to signal to a women's hindbrain. They are opening a dialogue with the part of a women's mind that will give him access to what he wants. I think women subconsciously know this a bit and this is why they use VIP bars, clothes, status, and friends. They want to create barriers so that they don't let any man just walk in and mind fuck them; they know how easy it is...
Her forebrain is her neocortex, the outer parts of the brain the parts that evolved more recently. This is the area that deals with math, logic, etc. It is not very developed in most women.
In women these two brains are much more disconnected then they are in men. Men have a dialogue with their primal urges. Women do not.
[deleted] 7y ago
I think your theory make sense.
However, it is more mental than you may think.
What i mean is, it is true that there are two minds in every woman, let's call the conscious one and the sexual one.
If you want to make a woman aroused /attracted you have to stimulate her sexual mind, there is no way you can create attraction stimulating the conscious mind (attraction can't be negotiated, trp rule).
Of course you can stimulate her sexual mind via body touch, via visual (abs),via voice, or just with your body language, or just with your eyes, etc. There are million ways to stimulate her sexual mind.
What I've found out is that the first step to access to get sexual mind is by bypassing her conscious mind (amused mastery, negs, idgaf, not needy, slightly ignore her etc).
Once her conscious mind have the right lack of stimulus, the void will be filled by her sexual mind, that will become active.
At that point, she will start to act as a sexual being, and that is when you can escalate succesfully (or she will escalate).
These women are very tricky, of course from their conscious mind they have no idea about what happen in their sexual mind, so their actions may looks like illogical and crazy to men.
throw_it_away_like 7y ago
Hmm... so the body relationship and the mind relationship with a woman can not be both active at 100% simultaneously. The key to seduction is getting the woman's mind relationship to be bored, distracted or frustrated so the body relationship can seize control of the woman. Maybe this is the essence of romance even. Now I see why women get crushes on professors.
[deleted] 7y ago
Women are attracted to professors because they are dominant.
Dominance == Authority + Confidence.
JackGetsIt 7y ago
I don't see how this relates. I think women are attracted to professors because they are situational alphas. They command the room and have control over that space. They also are confident in what they are teaching and have financial security so all high SMV traits. You'll have to explain how the professor thing fits into your theory.
ponkyol 7y ago
If the professor went to a nightclub he'd have zero SMV.
Mark Manson's Models explains this very well.
Vajesticles 7y ago
That mind/body relationship chart is brilliant.
throw_it_away_like 7y ago
I was thinking it might be good to give it a few more data points.
very high x, zero y: bad boy / hate fuck
mid high x, low middle y : plate threshold
middle to low middle x, high y : the valley of the pity fuck
very high y, zero x : her younger brother, emotional tampons
mexaboy 7y ago
Seems right but I guess you're just rehashing attraction and comfort.
justgotalpha 7y ago
It makes sense but your theory will actually have to go through a scientific research to be proven right.
Imo your body cannot be detached from your mind unless you tell your mind to detach from your body. Thats why pornstars can fuck nonstop and not catch feelings because they see it as a job and have to perform their best in order to get paid.
Man are visual ,women are emotional thats why game works so damn well you gotta have sex with her mind first so that her body gets aroused and then she will want sex with you.
Attraction is black and white and cannot be negotiated.you cant love a lamborghini and not be willing to drive it.
cubicpolynomial3 7y ago
See /u/dr_warlock's comment above.
[deleted] 7y ago
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RedPillFreedom 7y ago
Bro, Seriously.
The dude hopped on fucking gear.
This guy became a beast physically & mentally in the gym & bedroom.
Edit: Seen similar things happen to friends on gear.
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buli145 7y ago
Well.. This theory makes a lot of sense to me.
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forcevacum 7y ago
Upcoming to hear responses because its an interesting topic
Trumpipede2016 7y ago
In the end, most western women are illogical, irrational cumdumpsters. All you have to do is have good posture, confidence, muscles, etc, and you have to be able to mindfuck her. If you can do both to a girl, you'll have no trouble, which I guess is consistent with the article here.