And don’t work in another European country if you want to keep your children or take out a divorce in your home country before you start working abroad so you know what to expect. The European wide law (Brussels II) will allow any random country that you work in to decide a divorce by their own laws, not according to the law in the country you were married in. The Brussels II construct is a bizarre and totally mind boggling idea that if you work in another country your marriage contract can be broken up by that country.
This agreement is just there to benefit a number of lawyers as you normally don’t know that specific country’s law and many times don’t even speak the language as in my case. I lost my two daughters, my career and all my assets including retirement savings. So please be aware of this if you are working outside your home country and get a divorce before working abroad.
This Brussels II should be abolished to save some peoples life. If you have time you can read more in this link.
Pastelitomaracucho 7y ago
I couldn't divorce where I got married so I divorced in Spain. It was fine and dandy.
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bohansson2 7y ago
Thanks, it started just before Christmas 2011 and I am still not divorced as Swedish authorities do not recognize the French judge decision…
...yes it hurts to have your life destroyed, your children taken away, and you can do nothing about it since judges are untouchable and do what they want not what the law tells them. I really just want to have this undone….
bosnianbeatdown 7y ago
A shame to see what the patriarchy has done to you.
Edit: Faggot
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Grimsterr 7y ago
Well, my old lady better hurry it up then, my kid's nearly out of high school :P
bohansson2 7y ago
well if you are in France you may well end up and pay alimony to the lady if you are unlucky... my children were only worth 500EUR each but my poor wife with higher education and long work experience during our marriage was worth an additional 2,500 EUR per month....
NeoreactionSafe 7y ago
And be reminded that Child Support Laws don't care if you don't marry.
Archange_ 7y ago
Since the OP had to confront the slow and erratic French courts, here is another French legal cherry. A woman who has a child out of wedlock may claim child support from any man with whom she had sex around the time of the conception. Around is very broadly defined. Paternity need not be established; paternity claim is a different, and slower, judicial process.
NeoreactionSafe 7y ago
That's just plain nuts.
There should not even be Child Support and here they are inflicting slavery on what might be an innocent man.
Shocking.
Archange_ 7y ago
It is a relic from the time when paternity could not be proven, only hinted; and from the time when contraception was limited and faulty; and from the time of marriage 1.0. Now it is simply legal enslavement.
France has taken a particularly pro-FI stance. By keeping the previous law. By outlawing paternity tests and punishing men who conduct them abroad. The legal way to obtain paternity tests requires judicial proceedings: it is slow (18-24 months), expensive (2000+ euros + lawyer fees) and erratic (the judge may deny it at the end because he/she sees no resons compelling enough to grant it).
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Mudpielol 7y ago
what the fuck! how can she prove it though? Or there is no need to prove it?
Archange_ 7y ago
She must prove sexual intercourse. Her word, witnesses, emails, photos, etc.
Horus_Krishna_2 7y ago
in most cases why would there be witnesses, emails photos of sex? I know some might be foolish and film it.
Mudpielol 7y ago
well, if just her word is enough... that's fucked up.
JackGetsIt 7y ago
Don't get married. If you do: Bitcoin emergency fund for the win! It might be all you have left.
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[deleted] 7y ago
This is pretty good advice.
kanji_sasahara 7y ago
Even then it won't be safe. There was a small byline separate from the main Panama papers about an ex-wife going for the money in the off-shore accounts after already getting a sizable chunk in the divorce proceedings.
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darkrood 7y ago
Exactly, look at how much she needs those money.
What a selfish guy
NeoreactionSafe 7y ago
Globalist Tyranny
I'd go back even further to 1950 and abolish the entire Child Support Law which is where things went away from the Natural Laws.
The fact is we are all slaves to the Globalist Tyranny.
Brexit was a "Slave Revolt" but there is a long way before Brussels is defeated.
"Kill the Beta".
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NeoreactionSafe 7y ago
Natural Law is such that any law that is passed that would violate a natural condition is considered an error.
In nature if a man dislikes a woman he leaves.
In nature if a man leaves she might be alone, so she behaves in feminine ways to keep him.
Any law that breaks those dynamics are against Natural Law.
Child Support is outright Slavery and it's something that shouldn't exist.
DRMMR76 7y ago
Are laws against theft and murder errors?
NeoreactionSafe 7y ago
No, because in nature justice would be had by the tribe upon the offender.
It was usually retribution... which was violent and created social chaos.
So in the case where you would normally expect revenge for an injustice you make laws that make that more efficient. Revenge was already expected and the laws just made that less chaotic. (reducing things like family feuds)
Slavery doesn't normally exist in dealing with women. In nature attraction is based on masculine and feminine polarity. So a man stayed with a woman as long as she was well behaved. If they did part then the man kept everything. Women were given an actual incentive to be feminine and easy to get along with. (unlike now)
Red_August 7y ago
I would word it differently in that one must consider what is the natural equilibria as the system will tend to revert to it without intervention whereas sometimes 'managing' nature will bring a desired altered state (i.e. traffic lights improve on nature). This whole 'Natural Law' model is mostly correct in intent but is arguably simplistic and tends to be limitative as a construct. See nature for what it is, yes.
SW9876 7y ago
Where do we draw the line for "natural". It could be argued that tribe life is the initial development of civilization and deviation from natural law as well.
NeoreactionSafe 7y ago
That's why you desire limited government.
Yes... you want as few laws as possible.
rathyAro 7y ago
We are never not in nature. The only "natural laws" are the laws of physics which we are obligated to follow (can't not follow them).
NeoreactionSafe 7y ago
You can ignore the "Natural Laws" and still (unknowingly) be directed by them.
Just as the Red Pill cannot be proven to a Blue Pill person.
It must be "aligned" with... it's a choice.
One chooses the Red Pill or chooses the reality of "Natural Laws".
[deleted] 7y ago
The most alpha men in the world start families and build empires. Being afraid of marriage is the most beta thing ive ever heard. Ive been lurking on here for a while. There is some good info but post like this make me think the majority of you are children. Can you picture Vladimir Putin on a internet forum crying about marriage?
Archange_ 7y ago
Frenchman here.
France theoretically has fair laws concerning divorce. The assets can be held either in (1) communion de biens which means each spouse gets half of everything; (2) communion reduite aux acquets which means that each spouse of assets acquired after the marriage; (3) separation de biens which means that each spouse keeps the assets it has acquired before or after the marriage. I do not know the status of OP's marriage.
France has kept an at-fault divorce procedure; adultery is a big negative and forbids maintenance; sexual rationing is also a negative; in general abuse is a negative. If the wife sues for divorce, she normally can't get maintenance. Maintenance is limited to 8 years. The custody process is complicated by leans heavily towards the woman. The spouse who gets the children usually gets the house as well.
Unfortunately the French courts are slow and erratic. A contentious divorce takes 18 to 24 months to be judged and another 18 to 24 months are required for an appeal. The behaviour of the lawyers is unsurprising: disparaging, careless, greedy, sometimes outrightly corrupt. The sad thing is that these two nefarious groups command the police.
Horus_Krishna_2 7y ago
what is sexual rationing. can you divorce a woman if she rations sex aka doesn't give you as much as you need?
Archange_ 7y ago
Yes restricting sex is a legitimate cause for divorce in absence of adultery or a negative point in divorce proceedings. The restriction ought to be dire: no sex for a year or two. You must prove good will on your side and ill will on her side. And hope that she does not come up with a bullshit medical certificate giving "objective cause" for low libido.
Horus_Krishna_2 7y ago
well at least they have one good law. no sex for a year, that sounds like not rationing but just completely withholding it. Definition of ration doesn't mean nothing at all for sure.
bohansson2 7y ago
Sweden has pretty much the same law as I have done this procedure once before. The law should be followed but since we have a bunch corrupt people in this system it will never work as it supposed to. I guess the judge is untouchable but I guess a lawsuit against the translator’s action of going my wife’s errand could be done. But no money left.
Are there any lawyers or law firms France that would go for a percentage of damage awared if the case is won?
I can feel my wife’s lawyer is a bit nervous about her friend of a translator….
Archange_ 7y ago
As far as I know the lawyers are paid fixed rates that are publicly advertised. No percentage of awards. I believe you were duped by your lawyer when it came to the appeal process: the lawyers pleading in appeal courts are different from the lawyers pleading in simple courts so when you appeal you drop your current lawyer and hire a new one who has to learn the case from scratch; appeal lawyers are more expensive; you must have kept your first lawyer who forwarded your case to a friend of his pleading in appeal courts; you had to pay for both of them, that's why it was so expensive.
If you sue the translator and win, you will be awarded little money. The translator will have to pay your lawyer's fees and that's much more costly.
bohansson2 7y ago
Thanks for the comments on this...unfortunately there is no money left and the only possibility would be to only pay if they win the case...
bohansson2 7y ago
A similar law when it comes to assets and support that is...
wanderer1976 7y ago
Don't marry for lust (not love, your brain is too addled by chemicals at that point to call it love). Don't marry if she doesn't bring as much to the table as you do. Don't marry without knowing her family. Don't marry if your friends are pointing out, correctly and verifiably, that her actions betray her. Don't marry, or create any legal contract, without establishing roles, expectations, and backout procedures if one or both parties want out (we call this a prenup, but it is a common corporate contract).
If she brings advantages to the table that you don't get otherwise, If she is pleasant and you look forward to seeing her, If her family are good people and will welcome you, If your family and friends welcome her, If she is willing to agree to reasonable terms in a prenup, If you can trust her with your life, then consider that she might be a woman worth marrying.
Always consult your family and friends about the her, always talk to her dad (run if dad, or any male role modelm is completely absent.) and accept what he has to say.
I did everything wrong the first time, and almost everything right the second time. I am a happy man.
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TightMouthLarry 7y ago
I wish you the best of luck with your marriage.
However, don't marry AT ALL is the best advice.
Nothing in what you said is any guarantee of anything.
bohansson2 7y ago
a prenup or any other contract will not be honoured if you are moving around in EU....as in my case....
vagbutters 7y ago
I grew up in a RP culture, albeit in the States, where men get married off at the behest of their parents. After taking in RP for a while, the prospect has really, really become less worthwhile to me. Women in my culture who grew up in the States are sluts who hide their past on a CIA-level of discreetness. Most of the guys who've married women who are part of this culture, growing up in the US, have gotten fucked over and fit the bill for Beta males to a tee (overweight/scrawny, beta bux, etc.).
The only thing that is a slight incentive for me is the prospect of having kids, which I'm still keen on after I'm done becoming a doctor. I don't see why I need one woman in my life now, though.
0kool74 7y ago
Hopefully with the advent of Brexit, it'll be just the first domino to fall in the unraveling and eventual dismantling of the EU. Stuff like this is a good reason for it as well.
StManTiS 7y ago
If you read the policy paper release by France and Germany they intend to double down by creating an EU coast guard and an EU army and an EU immigration policy. This is the fourth Reich.
Horus_Krishna_2 7y ago
Germany taking over Europe? nah not cause for concern at all.
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Archange_ 7y ago
In France hostility to the EU is high. Depending on the issue, you rally 55% to 65% against it. However the political class and all the media fully support the EU and will not let the people spoil it.
StManTiS 7y ago
It does...maybe(the polls were badly done). However the current regime is very much in bed with the EU.
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Horus_Krishna_2 7y ago
well anyone can read, and this sub makes many furious so it's no shock to see, and of course betas will be against the brexit. Media tells them to be.
sezamus 7y ago
Just a few words from me. Don't even fucking think you are better than other guys and you are able to hold the marriage. Maybe she won't divorce you, but you will be a slave whole your life. And guess what? You will not even know who your fiance had a crush on and how many times, when you were together.
A female friend of mine had a huge crush on a guy 2 weeks before her BF gave her a ring. Now they are "meant to each other happy married couple expecting a kid". Guy had no idea. A friend of my ex-gf was extreme CC rider fucking everywhere without thinking about responsibilities. She got pregnant with a good looking guy who decided to be a provider and married her. Guy until this day has no idea how many dicks she had in her mouth. It made me sick watching them kissing at their wedding...
My ex-gf dumped me, pricing my love below 750 USD/Month (3000 PLN - not bad). That's the salary her new BF was earning, while I was still studying.
Everytime I think about marriage I remind myself what I saw.
And remember, your love is not even worth 750 dollars.
[deleted] 7y ago
"Don't even fucking think you are better than other guys and you are able to hold the marriage."
This should be one of our red pill mantras! After awhile the problem isn't you, it's these sloots.
BluepillProfessor 7y ago
To be fair that is per month.
Sinelnyy 7y ago
You see the other guy just as $750 a month. What if he was simply a higher quality person than yourself?
doremix 7y ago
You are extrapolating basing on one data point. This will bias you.
[deleted] 7y ago
I was married with a kid on the way while I went to bootcamp. We were also mormon at the time. I found out after the divorce that my wife-at-the-time had such a big crush on one of the missionaries/elder that visited her (and her mother) she had to be counseled with the Bishop because of her uncontrollable feelings towards this missionary/elder. This was while I was at bootcamp trying to make a better life for my family and while she was pregnant.
Bitches these days hold no loyalty, no value, no respect, and honor.
Fuck bitches, get money.
sezamus 7y ago
It was said here on TRP: "When you are not there, your SMV equals 0".
TRP_Lee_zard 7y ago
You forgot to mention that this is around average salary in Poland (and by average I mean majority of working people don't see that kind of money).
sezamus 7y ago
yes, you're right, but it is also not so much. As a PFC I get the same and I don't need a master's degree so it depends on a point of view. 3000 PLN/month is not bad and I think it is the best description of this amount.
aBitClearer 7y ago
And it is certainly not worth $3000 every month, which is what I pay in what another TRP bro called "mommy support". And that's before taxes, so I have to make ~$6000 to cover each payment!
SirSubwayeisha 7y ago
Reading this sucks. I'm shaking my head because I just don't want it to be true. Stay strong.
bohansson2 7y ago
Thanks…….I apologies for the late response, the cheap liquor passed me out early yesterday
aBitClearer 7y ago
Yeah I got ya, but it is true! Fortunately, I only have 18 months to go, and that money will be mine again.
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[deleted] 7y ago
I see countless married women and girls at work flirting with dudes and crushing hard on them. Shit a girl at work followed me all the way to the fucking MENS bathroom, yeah! She was also just married about 2 months or so, yeah honey moon period my ass!
darkrood 7y ago
This.
I had a Eastern European Girl who married during her 2nd year in office.
Then she started to have a crush with another guy in the office.
How subtle she showed her attraction? By squeezing in the tiny booth next to the guy and rub his thigh, during a low-key happy hour IN FRONT OF EVERYBODY.
Sure, coworkers joke. However, I am just so sad for the poor sap who married this harlot.
muffcheese 7y ago
$750 is a fair amount of money, people have been killed for less. On the other hand you are interpreting it wrong. Your love is not worth x amount of dollars - her vagina is worth x amount of dollars.
IDontKnowAnymore3456 7y ago
To be clear, he mentions PLN. That suggests, he's from Poland. I am as well, and I can tell you, this is above average wage in that country.
Horus_Krishna_2 7y ago
either way you gotta pay. right now I gotta pay for a gym membership then they will come a callin
vagbutters 7y ago
A gym membership is the most cost-effective way of getting pussy, if you're exercising and dieting right.
Horus_Krishna_2 7y ago
yeah 10 dollars a month for the smallest plan, I can easily handle it.
ELLEN_POO 7y ago
What if my future wife is infertile? Because girl I know that could be my wife is infertile (and also from a country with much higher standard of wealth, so that is also not an issue)
MeiFriend 7y ago
At least in Mexico, infertility automatically voids the marriage since in our law's definition: marriage is for having children. Only exception is if you knew before-hand of the infertility, in which case it can't be used for divorce.
ecosci 7y ago
No marriage can survive these days because women have too much power and no responsibilities even brittany griner found out the hard way now she can see how real men feel but its no level of shame women can have when it comes to extracting resources from anyone who is in a good financial situatation so dont get married and become a wage slave plus your wife will not appreciate it anyway often demanding more shit awalt.
YourWifeCallsMeDaddy 7y ago
How does TRP generally feel about having children? I want to have children, but I don't want to raise a child out of wedlock...
TheRedChemist 7y ago
If it's what you want then it's what you want but the key is to do it with your eyes OPEN to the risks it exposes you to. You are financially and to a degree emotionally tied to a potentially crazy bitch for 18 years minimum. The child can be taken away from you at any time and for essentially no reason and you'll still have to pay to support them (read: mommy).
If you're going to do it then VET, VET, VET like your life depends on it because in a sense it does. Losing your children is like mourning their deaths except, I think, worse because they ARE still out there and you COULD still be with them - if you weren't afraid of going to jail.
bohansson2 7y ago
The last point is a very true one…
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[deleted] 7y ago
Why does it matter if it's out of "wedlock"? What's your specific issue?
Horus_Krishna_2 7y ago
yeah who cares about that any more. oh so the child is born a bastard and isn't eligible to be king? Societies lies at work again.
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Horus_Krishna_2 7y ago
yeah like how Harry is the son of a red haired body guard but he could be king if everyone in front dies. Plus he seems stronger, in military, parties like a red pill.
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YourWifeCallsMeDaddy 7y ago
To me its an embarrassment. I would much rather want others to see my kids come from a family with divorced parents than bastards.
[deleted] 7y ago
You care about what others think too much.
YourWifeCallsMeDaddy 7y ago
I care about how my kids are treated and perceived as opposed to how I'm perceived. I think differently of kids born outta wedlock, and I don't want my kids to go through the same embarrassment. They are just perceived as lower class citizens and it is true, they are in many ways.
[deleted] 7y ago
I think you're still plugged in.
I wonder if you would still feel this way after going through a divorce (it doesn't have to be a particularly ugly one, either). Some guys sign up for #2 & #3.
Me? I don't see the point any longer. If a chick is gonna be with me, she's gonna be with me. If she's not, please bounce. What kind of relationship are you setting yourself up for when the prototype is, 'she demands you to do xyz or she leaves?'.
I readily encourage my girl to find her happiness and to not let me stop her. If I'm not adding to her happiness or there is a dream that I'm standing in the way of her achieving, please by all means leave. Don't feel the least bit guilty about moving on without me. I support it 100%.
It feels like you're hamstering here a bit. You admit you place some importance on marriage. Knowing a person's marital status (and even that of kids' parents') makes you perceive them differently.
I suppose I used to think that way, too, before I unplugged.
You got some soul-searching to do, my brother.
YourWifeCallsMeDaddy 7y ago
I should make my point clear. I do not see the value in marriage for the relationship, but solely for the sake of raising kids in a home with a mom and dad.
Studies have shown that kids who grow up in a single parent home (generally a result of wedlock) are far inferior in intellect and have just a worse life compared to kids who are born in a family where the mom and dad are still together. Of course divorce can happen and that affects the child too, but wedlocks are worse for a kid.
I do not wish to get married for the relationship, but if I'm gonna have kids, I want a good life for them, and I speaking out of practicality, marriage is a better life for them. This particular concern has nothing to do with redpill and bluepill, so to speak.
[deleted] 7y ago
That's all well and good but I think deep down you know you're hamstering this attachment you feel towards marriage.
After all, you can raise kids with Mom and Dad sans marriage. Especially in this day and age.
No sir, you're plugged-in. Despite what you say about not seeing the value of marriage re: relationships, you're putting your money where your mouth isn't.
You say you do not wish to get married, but your actions betray you. You want marriage for yourself.
But who cares what I think. I'm an anonymous person on the internet. Ask yourself why you have such a strong attachment to marriage. Because, for what it's worth, I don't buy the "it's for the kids, not me" bit for a second.
YourWifeCallsMeDaddy 7y ago
Save me the canned "you're hamstering" replies. It's just a copout. You've asked me why I have an attachment to marriage, and I gave it to you. I do think marriage is a major risk, and most men should not take on the risk, but on the other hand if a man wants children, he will do his future children a dis-favor by having them out of wedlock in the long run. Maybe you have an attachment towards not wanting the best for your kids? I'm not sure...
Scatterbrain99 7y ago
Wanting the best for your kids by being married? I mean how is that relevant? Unless you are from a muslim country (which I was before moving to NYC), I just do not see how that is relevant for kids well being. Yes, parents living and raising kids together is super important. But exactly how does marriage factors into wanting the best for kids? Maybe, we need the society to improve in a sense that do not look down upon a person whose parents are not married. If such people exists, I feel sorry for those.
[deleted] 7y ago
Zing! Pow!
That's right. Attack me. You're upset.
Why?
Because you know marriage is a shit deal yet you still defend it.
That u/truthuncensored guy on the reddit.. he's not right. I'm not rationalizing anything.... it must be him. he ... doesn't want the best for his kids!! And I do! That's why I'm a proponent of marriage! Yeah that's it!
The cognitive dissonance must be unbearable.
Face it bub. You're signing up for a shit deal. I would be remiss if I patted you on the shoulder and I said, "You're making the right choice, son."
The fact is, you're fucking up royally. You just don't know it yet. Which is fine. But don't say you weren't warned.
PS. You can continue to attack me if it makes you feel better.
darkrood 7y ago
Well, as a guy who was raised under "Mom&Dad" house, there were many times I went to my parents and said: "Please Divorce, I am 100% for it. I want both of you to be happy."
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MKApex 7y ago
Good luck to you man.
You can overcome this. You will be able to, but for now, find a source for emotional relief. You owe it to yourself.
bohansson2 7y ago
Thanks man, the alcohol keeps me a bit stable and makes me a good night sleep....
MKApex 7y ago
Please keep in mind alcohol is a depressant. Using stimulants won't help either, they will both only set you back. You'll have to confront those feelings sober if you truly want them healed.
Stay healthy my friend.
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grewapair 7y ago
No. Very few.
"States that do recognize common law marriage include the following: Alabama, Colorado, District of Columbia, Georgia (if created prior to 1997), Idaho (if created before 1996), Iowa, Kansas, Montana, New Hampshire (for inheritance purposes only), Ohio (if created prior to 10/1991), Oklahoma, Pennsylvania (if created before 9/2003), Rhode Island, South Carolina, Texas and Utah. Same-sex relationships or marriages are never recognized as common law."
Source
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TedTheAtheist 7y ago
I'm diddling this hot girl right now who has her own business (not sure how well it's doing) but says she wants to be married before kids.
I'm not sure which one she falls under of which you mentioned. I think it might be more the latter than the former - not sure.
Yea, this would be great, but not agreed upon by her I'm sure. I wish there was a way to do the whole ceremony thing but have it all be invalid without her knowing. :)
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TedTheAtheist 7y ago
So when she pops you the question, or you pop her the question, or however it will work, you'll play it out as if it's really marriage but later say that you won't be signing anything?
Kind of lead her on? I mean, I do it already by not telling them how I feel about marriage after they tell me, just for the poon.
Yea, that sounds like a good idea how you mentioned it.
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TedTheAtheist 7y ago
That's exactly it! I've had quite a few women stop dating me or not wanting to even start dating me because I don't want to "get married". Like, really? The relationship should be about US, not a contract!
Yes, the marriage thing is a GREAT way to break up with someone. Also, if they are religious, great reason there, too.
bhooooo 7y ago
thanks for sharing your experience!
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[deleted] 7y ago
Thank God we're coming out of the EU.
Not that I am hopeful about the UK, in this regard, we have a very BP-oriented culture and legal system. Probably not quite as bad a Western Europe, though.
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[deleted] 7y ago
Thanks. I think one of the reasons young people favoured remaining in is that they have little to no appreciation of the value and significance of exactly the things you mentioned.
darkrood 7y ago
What about Multiculturalism?!!! (/s)