Summary: This is a post showing that being alpha isn't always the best route to take with a woman and we'll take a look at the 2 main things a girl needs from you to sleep with you.
Body:
Alpha Fucks, Beta Bucks. We've heard this time after time. Whilst this premise is ultimately true, Women do still fuck beta bucks, it just depends what frame of mind or emotional state they are in. Generally, it's better to err on the side of Alpha and then show beta qualities once she has established you as Alpha. However, I think a lot of guys forget that they need to show the beta still.
Women are primarily looking for 2 things in a partner:
- The Alpha with the best sperm to have the best children. (This is Attraction)
- Someone who is going to stay around afterward to help her raise it. (This is comfort)
The paradox here and where so many men get frustrated, is that when you are building attraction, you are generally decreasing her comfort. When you build comfort, you are decreasing attraction.
For a woman to sleep with you, you need to have the right BALANCE of Attraction and Comfort, and then of course take care of logistics. However, no woman is the same twice, and her CURRENT state and emotions will dictate where this balance lies on the scale between Alpha and Beta.
For example: She's out in the club with her friends partying, chances are shes going to need you to be showing a lot more alpha qualities.
Her bf just broke up with her and shes vulnerable and sad etc, you're going to need to shift yourself to appear slightly more beta. (IMPORTANT: ITS ON A SCALE, YOU STILL NEED TO SHOW BOTH, Alpha or Beta aren't mutually exclusive.)
The last piece of this puzzle lies in your SMV compared to hers. If the two of you run in the same social circle and she's barely a 7, whilst you're a 9, have status, and are generally accepted to be the alpha of the group, showing MORE ALPHA qualities destroys her comfort and won't sleep with you. Attraction for women is a knob that gets turned up, but once its turned on, YOU DON'T NEED TO KEEP TURNING IT. You need to not fuck it up. Showing more alpha qualities when she herself knows you can do better completely skews the scale and she'll be too insecure. (Note, shit tests and comfort tests are literally her way of putting the scale into balance for her own emotions).
TL;DR
Everything in the world is relative, and you need to keep a close eye on where you currently stand in her eyes, and adjust accordingly.
bogeyd6 8y ago
Pretty much once your SMV has surpassed her's and your peers then her hypergamy is satisfied. You don't have to turn up the alpha, but you have to keep it at that level. You can't go failing comfort and shit tests. Grow that dad bod and settle down for kids.
You need the Alpha for her to fuck you like a porn star. You need the Beta for her to stay around. It's not really much more complicated than that.
Fenrir93446 8y ago
Thank you. This provides considerable and much needed perspective.
kez88 8y ago
Pretty much. I think that a lot of guys though who have been a bit more on the beta side feel like they have something to prove and show too much alpha, this is really just more of a reminder that you still need both
bogeyd6 8y ago
Overcompensating based on a lack of confidence. Other times is based from anger or excitement. Some men need to just learn to chill the fuck out and consider it as practice.
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bogeyd6 8y ago
It's already been done by me over at the MRP subreddit. Geared towards an LTR, well because you dont comfort a plate, right? I'll pm you the link.
The real thing I can tell you, is you are probably being shit tested 99% of the time, and its not until the dread really sets in and your SMV is a few clicks above everyone she knows that the comfort tests will come into play. I call them basically beta traps, I should probably write a post on that.
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kazaul 8y ago
Barring rare cases, shit tests come all the time. Try not to look at the words or intent too much but instead ask: "In response, do I honestly feel better (or look better) if I jokingly tease?" If the answer is yes, it was a shit test. If no, it was something else (what it was varies; sometimes girls just speak normally too, though you wouldn't know that reading this sub). This is why amused mastery and frame are such important skills. After you've (re)established frame, you'll end up with amused mastery on almost all the time. A fun, knowing, not-too-serious attitude toward most of the words that come out of her mouth.
All the time however doesn't mean every second word she says is a shit test. It's more like in every conversation... maybe several times per conversation. Sometimes it sounds like teasing, subtly derogatory comments, out-of-context questions, even abrupt shifts in topic. If she has even an ouce of girl 'game', they are virtually impossible to detect consciously in real time. It's easier to internalize the action / response pattern of replying in amused jest than trying to figure out what precise statements constitute a shit test and what doesn't on a case by case basis.
Note: the below is almost exclusively applicable to LTR game.
Comfort on the other hand is often misunderstood as just being emotional insecurity. It is in fact something which occurs whenever she defers to your knowledge, status, etc. You have to prove you understand that she's reliant on you, understand she's weaker and less competent than you (and that's why she's now coming to you), and still care enough to help – a bit. Do the bare minimum to prove competence without losing frame, then go right back to playing off shit tests.
A good example of this is being asked to help your LTR move. It's beyond her physical capacity to do this herself and, if she thinks you're her alpha, she will come to you. To say no outright would be social suicide in most societies. But it'd also be stupid to jump like a beta and come running. Make her move on your schedule, when you don't mind and have time, and if that isn't okay she'll have to find another solution. Don't argue logically. Don't explain yourself. This is simply how it is.
Now, let's look at the opposite: refusal to help her move altogether, which really shows the comfort side of this. While 'independent' in theory, outright refusal is usually a poor move because it shows you either don't care or aren't competent enough to handle simple problems in life. It will lead her to doubt your ability to provide for her. And, even if you're alpha in her eyes, her irrational dream is to make you her provider. That isn't to say you have to help every time she defers to you! Exercise sane rationale and simply be aware, if you refuse or invoke dread, you risk more comfort tests down the line. Go too far and dread can go off the rails in very... strange ways. But let's not get into that right now.
Emotional insecurity on the other hand, the more traditional form of comfort test, is a different and far simpler beast. A hug, cuddle, lighthearted banter, maybe something romantic, is all you need to pass these. Emotional comfort tests are easy to spot because amused mastery results in increased insecurity and discomfort. You can, of course, deflect comfort tests with shit test responses – the result is simply more comfort tests... and eventually dread, if you go too far. A simple way to handle these tests is to keep deflecting (presumed) shit tests until you sense something isn't quite right, then comfort, and go back to the way things were before. Worst case, by which I mean you really can't figure out what the hell is going on, invoke soft dread. She'll come to you. You can comfort. And then go back to the way things were.
That last option is a bit of a hack job but I've found it invaluable trick, such as walking into the other room or speaking with someone else while out, and waiting until she comes to cuddle. Can take a while and may result in a silly discussion but I find those easier to deal with than failed comfort tests. Haven't found out how to bounce back from those without being apologetic or submissive, which always sounds insincere and just makes everything worse.
Tangentially, if you are good at speaking 'emotionalese' (most guys are not) you can act in a broader range of ways than you can with 'male' communication skills. The fact of the matter is that it doesn't really matter what you say per se. It's all about how the words make them feel; subtext and emotional impact are the only things that matter. So a 'discussion' about politics can basically be the same as conventional dirty talk. Seriously. It's not about the topic or the words. It's about getting her hamster spinning and building the image she desperately wants in her 'feels'.
So, for example, arguing the merits far right ideology or military expansionism with a liberal chick is basically the same thing as projecting a bad boy attitude by insinuating you're going to ravish her. The underlying message is the same... IF you back it up with different actions and more creative wording to ensure she knows that, yes, we're actually talking about sex and not politics. Obviously this doesn't work on idiots who don't grasp the subject matter but it will on most mildly educated women.
And the reason this is important is simple: you will get bored pulling the same emotional play over and over. And so will they, especially if you're in an LTR. Even worse, you may eventually become tangled in social situations like polite society or family, where you cannot speak openly without loosing face but still need to convey the message that, „yeah, we're going to fuck later, and I want you thinking about that right now.“ That last bit is also IMO the only way to play game when in the presence of an otherwise more obvious/traditional alpha... or a BP 'friend' who's constantly and clumsily getting in the way.
This is a key aspect of game that isn't widely understood by most on this sub (or anywhere, as far as I can tell). RP knowledge is a framework to model your behavior by. The core concepts are often portrayed in stereotypical 'examples' but the underlying lessons can be abstracted and adapted to work in many other circumstances, with other means, and with other methods. And learning how to use this knowledge dynamically (experimenting, and failing) will help keep relationships fun and prevent the otherwise mundane routine from becoming a drag.
Omnisovereign 8y ago
This post is an example of a hidden gem. Great insight
MeatCurtainRod 8y ago
This is a very valid point. It is very funny reading askTRP posts about a guy's text game that goes like this:
girl: hey how's it going?
guy: word up, bitch. how's my slut?
girl: err... what? what is your problem?
guy: FUCK OFF ASSHOLE, YOU DAMN BITCH SLUT CUNT BITCH.
guy: so wanna grab some drinks?
guy: hello?
guy: hey don't be so pathetic.
guy: hey.
guy: hey. wanna grab drinks? you buy of course.
guy: hey what are you up to tonight?
Then the guy posts: "I don't get it, my game is top notch, played dread game, played amused mastery, but it isn't working. Should I next her?" Perspective and relativity is a key component to knowing how to be redpill. You can't just apply tricks and techniques and expect positive results when you don't even know anything foundational to work off of.
sir_wankalot_here 8y ago
This can work if done properly, and you have to gauge the woman. Does she have a sense of humor.
Out of the blue
Guy) Let's go back to my place and have sex.
Chick) What ? What type of girl do you think I am
Guy) Fine let's compromise, we can just go for coffee to start.
Girl at this point will be shocked, laughing or something.
Guy) See we are already off to a great start. Compromise is very important. You can see I am always willing to compromise.
dj10show 8y ago
There's nobody that's that stupid, is there?
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GainzdalfTheWhey 8y ago
Human stupidity knows no bounds
5kevin 8y ago
Just to share one of my stories which led to me swallowing the pill and that coorelates to your point.
November of last year, I had a girl that I considered a 9.5 , hit me up asking to hang out because she just broke up with her bf. I played it off very aloof and we met later for coffee. We talked for a bit and at this point I've been studying seduction / RP for about 6 months but didn't really spit any game.
Once she drives me back home I ask her to tell me about why she broke up with her bf. Turns out he was abusive and obssesive, stalking her after school when they would argue. Now I felt bad and thought in order to get this girl I would have to play emotional tampon and show my beta side.
Completely wrong move by me and I listened, sympathized and tried to give her advice. This was not exiciting for her, neither was it attractive. The next day she blocks me on facebook and cuts contact, this led to me swallowing the pill and accepting reality.
Moral if the story: Don't be an emotional tampon EVER it will not get you laid. Never show more beta traits than alpha and most importantly always assume and establish attraction before comfort.
kez88 8y ago
This is correct. The problem here was that she didnt already view you as a high status guy, so ratio of alpha and beta was probably already skewed towards the beta side in her mind, so when you showed more of it you just turned her off and grossed her out. Better luck next time
5kevin 8y ago
Well first off, status has absolutely nothing to do with beta/alpha, the word your looking for is value. But you are completely right about her view of me, before she got into that relationship, we were hooking up and I almost took her virginity ( couldn't beat LMR ). She tested me and acted aloof while I was the biggest beta bitch ever. Second time around after she broke up with him and I haven't seen her in 6 months. I thought I was alpha and could pull this girl. NOPE I was still plugged and pushed AWALT to the side, doesn't count for my unicorn of course.
I was in a bad situation from the get go. Cut my losses and move on
scarthearmada 8y ago
The strange twist in all of this is that the "abusive and obsessive" stalker was almost guaranteed to be more beta than alpha. She was plotting this guy to see if he was man enough to pull her away from a guy who was giving her the creeps, and all he did in response was remind her of the guy she was trying to escape. What she really wanted was clear: someone with a solid frame, to draw her away from the guy ruining her day.
sir_wankalot_here 8y ago
100% wrong take, most likely she was dumped by the guy and then all of a sudden her hamster made the guy into abusive and obsessive.
No, she was looking for an emotional tampon. Of her emotional and abusive ex snapped his fingers, she would go running right back. Then she would be posting on the Team Pussy subreddit about how she couldn't help her self, had an accident etc.
Team Pussy subreddit will ofcourse say it's not her fault etc.
scarthearmada 8y ago
I would say it depends on how long after the breakup it was, and how sexual this girl is. She might have been looking to branch swing, a sort of post-hoc branch swing. It also depends on what their (TS and the girl) communication was like prior to the coffee meet-up conversation. Depending on these factors, it could be that I'm entirely correct, or you may be. I didn't think the information entirely through last night.
Expectations1 8y ago
I prefer to be alpha outside of work, and beta at work, anything remotely alpha, like commenting on a girl's dress, shutting idiotic statements down, making people laugh with rude jokes, has always been met with some white knight beta whos more senior than me to quote some corporate bullshit about how thats not how you should mke people feel.
mehdreamer 8y ago
it depends on the culture also.. TRP is very American centered. I live in Europe...and countries like Sweden for example...showing alpha male traits won't make you get laid every time...
NeoreactionSafe 8y ago
You are mangling the concept of Alpha and Beta.
It has nothing to do with whether you give comfort or not, the comfort issue is a side issue that runs with the Shit Test.
Alpha means you have Frame.
Frame is the ego boundry that prevents her from directly Accessing your inner emotional state. Frame is like a "fence" that keeps her out and you Free within.
The issue of comfort or punishment or indifference or whatever Game you might be playing at the moment has no relation to whether you have a solid Frame or not.
It's not like a binary thing... good / bad... Alpha / Beta... rough / gentle... and it's definitely not an emotion.
Frame is the key and you can have Frame and give comfort, but you wouldn't give a response of comfort to a Shit Test or worse if she's manipulating you with her own Game.
kez88 8y ago
I don't believe frame has much to do with this
NeoreactionSafe 8y ago
Alpha means you have Frame (internal Freedom) and Game. (act on Liberty)
Alpha vs Beta is not about an emotional state.
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kez88 8y ago
Yeah i wanted to write this as well, but wanted to keep the post short. Definitely recommend that vid to anyone
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[deleted] 8y ago
How can you tell when she's thinking "he can do better he's probably just fucking with me"?
kez88 8y ago
She could throw you a comfort test "Go see those other girls you were talking too" etc etc, or it could just be more shy and reserved body language. It depends, and it comes with experience. Be mindful of where your smv sits relative to hers, and try to guess as best you can. Either way, push or pull her with something and see how she reacts, that will typically tell you
nadolny7 8y ago
How do you pass the comfort test when she is already feeling insecure? Do you show a bit of beta?
bogeyd6 8y ago
You pass a comfort test by simply hugging her. Not communicating with her. Sometimes words are required, but it is rare.
kez88 8y ago
Yeah just tell her shes cute or you like her or something. Pretty much what society has always said to tell girls haha. Imagine a screaming fan with brad pitt, hes not gonna be like 'whatever girl do what you want' hes gonna try comfort her and be a bit of a pushover because hes fucking brad pitt and obviously way higher on the smv scale than she is
nadolny7 8y ago
Both responses makes sense, thank you