Occam's Razor is a cognitive tool which states that when there are competing theories or explanations for a given thing, the one requiring the fewest assumptions is probably correct.
Occam's STFU is simple: When men communicate, the way requiring the fewest words is probably best.
Talking, lots of talking, is a woman's stock-in-trade. Women are even perfectly content to have entire conversations where no conclusion or resolution is reached. Much of the communication is emotional and nonverbal; the words sometimes don't matter at all.
Men, on the other hand, tend to be more goal-oriented in their approach to life, which is reflected in their more parsimonious and direct, often blunt conversational style. Form follows function; short and to-the-point communication is expected, and introducing filler material or emotion into the message is a faux pas, particularly in business.
In attracting women
Avoid the friendzone Women enjoy wordy conversations with each other, but don't make the mistake of thinking long conversation alone will get you into any panties; this will entrench you into the friendzone. If attraction is your goal, use fewer words and more nonverbal flirting and plying her emotions to make the connection you're seeking.
Active conversation is an essential element of push-pull, attraction, and escalation. Guide the conversation, but don't dominate it; keep a healthy banter going. Lots of women are quiet and shy at first; the solution isn't to filibuster all evening, but draw her into the conversation, with her 3:2 you being the golden ratio. People can see from across the restaurant when a woman wishes her date would STFU and let her get a word in edgewise; shouldn't you from right across the table?
Relationship talk is the woman's prerogative. I prefer LTRs, even at the plate level, and used to babble on about how important relationships are to me, how I wanted something long-term etc ad nauseum. I honestly thought this was exactly what women were waiting to hear from a man and was necessary to get them to sleep with me. Instead, I learned the hard way that this is an attraction killer. As the man, your job is to build attraction and escalate physically. STFU and Let her bring up relationship discussion; you might be surprised how late it comes and how little is demanded.
Never talk about your problems to a woman unless attraction doesn't matter, like with a relative or colleague (about relevant business matters.) Sparingly seek commisseration and advice from your bros, but complaining to women signals weakness, thus worthlessness to them according to Briffault's Law.
In managing LTRs and conflict
Lead more by example than decree. Acta, non verba becomes more important when establishing boundaries and roles in longer term relationships. Being the type of Captain who upholds in himself the high standards he sets for his First Mate and subordinates inspires loyalty and respect with few to no words. A hypocritical or unjust leader can talk and shout till he's blue in the face, and only inspire grudging compliance at best, which will be undermined or abandoned absent his attention.
You'll never win an argument with a woman using words and logic. Once things have escalated, words don't even matter; she's operating in the emotional realm. This is why an air of Amused Mastery is so important, and techniques like fogging so effective- they let the emotions run their course and exhaust their energy, and keep you from being drawn into her frame. When she's presenting an attack that is total BS, don't engage; STFU and let her exhaust her energy, then quietly and briefly state your position verbally and nonverbally, then stop.
You can't negotiate attraction. Whether sex quality/quantity has been slipping, or if you've got a dead bedroom to turn around, lots of words will not fix it, whether through arguing, begging/pleading, or counseling. Where a simple discussion and leading fail, employ Dread Game, and if necessary, invoke other options available to you.
At work and in business
Your colleagues are NOT your friends! Everything you say will be stored and catalogued away to be used against you someday. Be careful what you disclose; adopt a "security culture" mindset. Fit in with the established quantity of small talk (below established average, but above conspicuously out of element), but make sure your content is devoid of details that can be turned against you somehow.
Avoid developing a reputation as the office complainer, and don't let the existing ones draw you into their frame. Pick your battles, by importance and fixability mainly, and when you do speak up about legitimate problems, bring at least one workable solution to the table. You absolutely will NOT successfully whine nor complain your way up the social or corporate ladder.
When someone in a superior position is stonewalling, such as a displeased supervisor, unenthusiastic sales prospect, or hardball negotiator, the temptation is to filibuster in order to keep the silence filled. While this may be appropriate in certain particular situations, a power move is to present a strong and/or appealing position or offer, then STFU and stonewall yourself. Let the silence go on beyond the discomfort zone, before yielding to the temptation to babble a conciliatory amended offer. One of the tenets of power and negotiation is, whoever speaks first loses.
Limits and exceptions to Occam's STFU
This is not a prescription to avoid naturally lengthy conversations, such as early dates with a new partner, long road trips, intimate vacations, weekends getting to know each other, at social functions etc. When conversation is flowing naturally, enjoy it, wallow in it; this is indeed the stuff of (social) life.
Occam's STFU applies primarily to situations where you're UNSURE or IN DOUBT about how much to speak.
Use finesse, especially when you're newly unplugging and changing your patterns in established relationships. Often, the prescription is for 10-20% less than you'd normally speak, not 90-100% silence. Overdo it for the context and you might come off as butthurt, socially inept, or fail to make your case sufficiently.
Part of Leadership is knowing when to take the initiative speaking to another or a group. When nobody else seems to know what to do, be that man and step up and take charge of the situation. Bystander apathy can be steered toward a decisive solution to many a crisis; timing and choice, not quantity of words is what matters in these situations. People respond well to short commands in a crisis, but you can quickly cross the line to haranguing annoyance and being ignored if you keep laying it on. The simple corollary here would be, Speak up, but not on.
The lesson of Occam's STFU is straightforward. As a man: when in doubt, USE LESS WORDS rather than more.
^^Edit-Typos
Docbear64 8y ago
I didn't realize that I do this but whenever I was chatting with a woman I would put so much energy in being clever and engaging that I would write mini life stories to text them ........ so for the past two days I took your advice and volunteered as little information as possible . the conversations are slower but they are far more real . this is some LifeHack shit . I used to think the more words I used the safer I made her feel and the more likely we are to fuck but I literally had one of my potential plates say yesterday " I like how you talk to me " when I did little more than answer her questions... and only her questions and submit a few questions statements to her .
It's ludicrous how well some of these posts have made a dramatic impact on my sex life and finding plates.
benuntu 8y ago
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."
I like questions better. For one, good questions communicate that you are listening and you understand the subject well enough to maintain a dialogue. And two, especially with chatty women, it allows them to talk more. On first dates, this is a great way to figure out if I'm talking to crazy, an idiot, or someone worth my time.
IllimitableMan 8y ago
I'm Machiavellian, but, naturally I'm a wordy motherfucker who likes to ensure people understand what the fuck I'm saying. I have a natural attention to detail and like to be specific with my words, but that doesn't necessarily mean brevity.
Seems people don't appreciate that, low attention spans and low intelligence play a big part, but I think as a general rule people want to talk more than listen and don't respect a yapper. I suspect "talking too much" shows you care too much, and people respect you more for being detached than actually giving a fuck about the topic and expressing the fucks you give by being rich and informative (educational contexts not withstanding).
Law 4 couldn't be any truer, less words = more power. Obviously assuming you're in control of what you do and don't say, and not because you have no idea what to say.
Of course if someone asks you to tell a story and you do, that's the exception, that's your caveat to be a wordy motherfucker. Stories break the rule, people love stories.
Clint_Redwood 8y ago
I can second this. I use to go into long, detailed, passionate even responses to people if they had an issue.
Now, i laugh, A&A, deflect, do some non-verbal like i don't give a shit, shrug, etc. I basically drag out my response to something and make them pry for it. Playing aloof. I think the key is to say as little as possible, till the other person invests in your answer. It has a lot to do with your perceived value and the context and situation.
I actually talk and am more engaging with a new person than with long time friends. In social circles people already know your social rank or value so they are quicker to dismiss or listen to you based on that. Where as a new person everything is being built in real time so the dynamics are different.
Through all the different situations though, the answers that are quick, concise and brief are always much better received than long winded explanations. I think it shows a mastery of the topic at hand. You are so knowledgeable that you can condense your understanding to an easy to understand and digest answer.
Exactly like how we use phrases here, "AWALT", "Ask the fishermen, not the fish", "When you are use to preferential treatment, equality seems like discrimination", the entire 48 laws also falls into this.
They are all concise answers that express great understanding to something yet can easily be understood by someone with less knowledge.
Unfortunately a lot of topics are very esoteric and it's hard to condense your understanding to quick one liners. I've found through conscious practice and just pausing before you speak though, you can greatly reduce long winded responses.
You'll notice the same phenomenons happen here. It's been studied on reddit that one liners usually have the most upvotes. It shows a quick wit, good understanding of the topic and easy to digest.
The second highest upvoted responses are usually extremely long and detailed. Showing a great detail of understanding but can't be condensed down. Picture a long winded charismatic speaker.
The worst replies are usually around one paragraph long. They show that someone usually falls into the middle ground of understanding the topic at hand. Not an expert, but not a complete novice.
Keep this in mind whether you are talking to someone in real life or on the internet, our minds are naturally drawn to the same correlation whether they are text or verbal. A lot of people will probably scroll down through these replies, stop and read this reply just because it's long winded and takes up space on your screen. At first glance no one knows what i'm actually writing about. They just see a well formatted and lengthy reply to a topic they are interested in. I've already have the value and attention for a long response so then i just need to add words that will increase the replies face value. I could be rambling on about complete bullshit right now. All i'm doing is adding words to the paragraph to make it look like some detailed out explanation and deep understanding of social dynamics. Statistically, the more words I write right now will greatly improve my replies chance of being well received. I'm adding face value to my post by literally, adding nothing but face value. It's incoherent bullshit packaged to look sophisticated at a quick glance. This entire last paragraph is utterly worthless, but because it looks long and detailed at first glance, most will stop and read it.
An_All-Beef_Engineer 8y ago
Yes, you are a wordy motherfucker. If only you would shorten your articles to 60% of current length, they'd be easier to digest. That said, cheers to your blog. Wordy, but always worth the read.
[deleted] 8y ago
well you do
talkwrite a lot, but you tend to deliver content more than babbler, so it is appreciated by those actually interested. If you come off as a yapper it's because you fail to assess people's interest beforehand (would not apply to your online typing cuz that's different of course)[deleted] 8y ago
I would like for you to be my mentor.
MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 8y ago
This sounds a lot like me; I've been called a Grammar Nazi for demanding clarity and precision in communication among my employees, but my methods work and they realize it.
One of my pet exasperations too. I write longer than average dating site profiles specifically to winnow out women who never read anything longer than a tweet.
Good point, sometimes this is part of the very culture, such as in small rural towns where there truly isn't much to do or talk about, and long rambling stories with no particular point are actually welcomed.
ColdEiric 8y ago
It is surprising how they cannot care about something small and important as grammar, yet they expect their bigger and grander goals to bear fruit.
penis_butter_n_jelly 8y ago
I don't think this idea is fully flushed out and a lot of distinct situations are conflated in the original post. There are many more exceptions than the one you mentioned. The general rule is you should speak less than the audience desires. Though this rule is precise, it requires you knowing how much they want you to speak, which is difficult for most people to gauge.
Getting people to want to listen to you is a game of less is more and high humor/insight/interestingness to word count density, but if you are successful, you have to deliver. If you do, this is far greater than any initial interest garnered by saying less. Holding court, having a group hanging on your every word, laughing at every joke, only addressing you, and you walking away after a few minutes of what amounts to a performance with the group metaphorically shouting encore--no amount of terseness could ever match this. A couple of witty quips over a few hours may get you in the door, but if you can make people feel good, men and women alike will want more and more and more of you.
Ultimately, it comes down to being in tune with feedback. Are you genuinely entertaining them. Read and react.
hiaf 8y ago
I really like conciseness but also giving out all possible information. In the workplace it's best to show idea then explain process and lastly outcomes. However when playing the power position it's best to show idea in simple fashion, skip process and state the outcome last with a punch. When explaining the process mention it as matter of fact.
Information is something that has to be transferred logically in the workplace because feedback is much harder when in a room full of poker faced suits.
penis_butter_n_jelly 8y ago
I don't disagree with this at all. I'm talking about a social setting, where the explicit information exchanged is irrelevant. The currency in this setting is not information, but entertainment. Workplace is totally different. But that is my more general point: 'talk less' is not absolute, it is relative precisely to the amount the audience desires.
hiaf 8y ago
Of course, but entertainment has some value in the workplace, in the form as subliminal manipulation.
RPAussie 8y ago
An example of failing to follow this rule:
I know a guy who can't stand silences, you can tell because his mouth keeps motoring on well past the point he's trying to make. If you don't respond to him, he'll continue speaking and end up repeating himself a few times. Hell, even if you do respond, the same thing happens.
The annoying nature of his conversation makes it very difficult to take him, or anything he says, seriously. It showcases weakness in him, and people treat him accordingly.
TooMuchToDoo 8y ago
My mentor always has told me: "Never miss an opportunity to keep your mouth shut."
The flip side to that is when you're already in conversation. I've found that if you're arguing with someone about a topic that cannot be fully right or wrong, the person who speaks the most usually wins. Those who have a lower mental capacity will simply think that "more words = more logic/reasoning" when in reality it may not necessarily be the case.
Orig_analUse_rname 8y ago
Humans are easy to manipulate.
2comment 8y ago
One of the nice things about saying nothing, and I don't mean being a quiet wallflower just spouting nothing of substance, is that women being the consensus seeking animals they are, latch on to anything you say and form their opinions around that. You can see a glimpse of her true nature by that tactic after a while.
All those suckers you see being lied to by their women, about N-count, values, whatever and anything often do it to themselves because they literally broadcast the exact answer they want to hear mirrored back to them and then feel hurt that their little angel lied to them to comply. Well, wtf else are they going to do? That's practically their entire programming, say what's needed to secure what they want.
[deleted] 8y ago
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MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 8y ago
A wise man speaks because he has something to say.
A fool speaks because he has to say something.
deeman010 8y ago
Same. I used to think that with enough discourse people would come to understand each other and that the more sound logic would reign supreme. I still think that it may work on a case to case basis but it usually isn't the most effective tool when dealing with people.
[deleted] 8y ago
Perfect thing to read on Easter Sunday. I want to shove this in people's face and scream SEE?! A wordless meal would be amazing.
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StoicCrane 8y ago
More importantly. Project your thoughts through physucao movement. Women are emotional, long-winded beings while men dominate the physical. Use your body as a conduit for communication over your tongue. You'll be surprised hiw many people, especially women, take notice.
TimeNdevotion 8y ago
Golden advice ! Went straight into my note colletion :) Thank you!
LonesomeTraveller 8y ago
Can you share this note collection?
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trinitys_dildo 8y ago
A point well made. And something I needed to hear thanks for the post
trauma_gland 8y ago
I read on this forum quite often that you shouldn't engage a woman in an argument. And that logic will never be the way to win such an engagement.
OP, I'm sure you're familiar with Patrice O'Neal, but I'm wondering if you've ever listened to the Black Philip Show he did. See Patrice had the opposite approach to this. He basically outargued the fuck out of the women that came onto the show/called in. His approach was to bludgeon them hard with logic and attack the shit out of their weak frames/arguments/logic. And for him, that technique worked so damn well. Essentially, the whole point of that show was to teach men how to give women "more options" in terms of how they think. You can tell he was a dude who was experienced in giving women more options and changing the way they think and interact with men. I think a major way he did that was by being a fucking argumentative God.
MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 8y ago
I'm not very familiar with Patrice's works, but consider that their format is different from a LTR where you have a future to manage with the individual. The call-in show is a once-and-done encounter with each caller, and there is an element of entertainment and shock value that must be artificially emphasized in this context.
When your job is to inject sound bytes into the ADD mediasphere, the strategy of being overbearing to get your message out can be the best one.
I'll warn you of this though, from my experience campaigning in public about hot button issues. It's easy for someone opposed to the cause to get people to lose frame and be reduced to screaming like grade school kids. Unless you're a skilled expert at high pressure negotiation and argumentation, talking less/talking cautiously is a safe default position when the pressure is suddenly on.
trauma_gland 8y ago
Patrice would bring his girl on the show frequently whom was assuredly an LTR for him. He definitely had her "trained" so to speak to not act and talk like the typical female, and it seemed like he did this mostly through logically explaining to her that she acts like a basic bitch and thus gave her more options. They had a great relationship complete with a bunch of threesomes too.
I get what you're saying about the rest, but I'm fairly convinced if Patrice were alive he'd be preaching to help girls by giving them logic - ie, giving them more options.
MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 8y ago
I agree wholeheartedly, and prefer intelligent women.
There is no reason to avoid logical discussion when you're both engaged in it and it proceeds productively. Just remember that once it has broken down during an argument, logic goes out the window and you're dealing with a creature of emotion.
This certainly applied to the PhD that I once dated, she was a Professor of debate and argumentation, but in her personal life she could be reduced to a whining child-figure when emotions took over, which in her particular case was waaay too easily and often.
[deleted] 8y ago
This is some fucking quality content, thanks for sharing bro.