TLDR: Neighbor comes in with intentions unclear. Covert conversation and plausible deniability help clarify that she wants the D.
BODY: Yesterday evening my neighbor comes knocking at my door. I met her and her boyfriend a few weeks ago when I threw a big party for my birthday and she showed up with him (I invited all my neighbors). The party was big (around 100 people in my apartment) and preselection definitely worked for me, although we didn’t flirt as her boyfriend was with her. Then I had dinner once with her and her boyfriend, a nice, clueless beta chump. And that’s it. And now she comes knocking at my door, in a tiny top that reveals her small fake tits on her lean figure. I immediately think she’s here for business. She says she came by to ask for a cigarette. I don’t smoke but there are always some at my place so I oblige. I tell her come in, but you can only smoke on the balcony. From the balcony we can actually see the kitchen window of her apartment. After a few minutes of small talk on the balcony, she tells why she’s here: she has cancer, and she just started chemo. Now that I give her a second look, I can tell she looks a bit paler, a bit more tired. Her hair actually starts to fall a little, she shows me. I don’t feel much pity for her, she’s a rich entitled bitch who divorce-raped two husbands (a freaking Ambassador, and a business mogul), but she looks very good for her age. Also, cancer is cancer, even if she’s not the nicest person nobody deserves this.
Now the big question: is she here to see if she can still attract a younger guy? To get some validation? To make her boyfriend jealous? On the one hand, she just told me she had cancer and is looking really down. And I know her boyfriend who is literally right next door in their apartment. If I start flirting I’m the asshole. On the other hand, she repeatedly takes this posture where she arches her back a little so that her tits are more on display, while looking intently somewhere else so I can look without ‘being caught’ (a classic female move). Fucking plausible deniability. If I make an obvious move she can discard it, she didn’t do anything, she was just looking away. I need to make her show her hand. What does she want?
She tells me that she soon is leaving with her boyfriend to another country to get better treatment for her. I say jokingly she should have taken me instead, I would have taken better care of her, also joking that I could get to know the country. I gauge her reaction. This convo is all covert. Either she picks up on me taking better care of her than her boyfriend, or she picks up on the fact that I would piggyback on her cancer treatment to visit another country for free. Plausible deniability on my side. She doesn’t bite though, stays clean off this one. Then we talk about my birthday party, I say it was really cool that she came by, and that’s too bad she didn’t stay longer because we could have had more fun. All covert still but now I’m showing my hand. Next we open a bottle of wine and I tell her she shouldn’t be drinking with her treatment. But I want to lead to the idea of sex in the conversation, so I continue by actually saying the opposite, that she should enjoy all the little things in life, like good meals, massages, travelling. Is her boyfriend taking care of her happiness? She picks up on the massage theme, says she likes them, and then she says he always wants to have sex with her but she doesn’t feel like it.
It might seem like she’s cutting me off, but all I hear is: bingo! She introduced straight up the idea of sex in the conversation, even though it was to dismiss it. She wants the D.
I look at her like she’s my prey, and I say very slowly: Is there anything I can do for you?
She says softly: ‘well you could give me kiss’ and then turns away and pretends to be drunk and babbles and asks me for a glass of water. We are sitting apart on each sides of a small table, so I actually have to stand up, calmly go around the table, sit on top of her, get her lips next to mine, small pause so she craves it, and kiss her.
Now, we are on my terrace and her boyfriend could see us right from their kitchen window! It takes a little convincing to take her inside where we are safe, then a lot of back and forth to actually fuck. Seriously she must have said no like 30 times, but then each time I would stop and not reinitiate, she would. We end up fucking while her boyfriend is calling and texting from next door.
After she leaves, I notice she forgot her keys. I try to clean off the sweat (I haven’t taken a shower yet) and go knock on their door. Boyfriend opens, I hand the keys over saying that Laura forgot them at my place. I tell him that I heard about the cancer, which sucks, and I hope the trip to the other country goes well. He says thanks, looks at me weird, and closes the door.
LESSONS LEARNED:
• If you’re not sure of her intentions, maintain plausible deniability for both of you. Casually introduce sexy themes and non-sexy themes in the convo, and see what she picks up on.
• If, at any point, she introduces the idea of sex in the convo outta nowhere, even to dismiss it, she probably wants the D. The idea of sex is the frame she’s in, the dismissal is plausible deniability she will fall back on in case of trouble.
• If she says no, she maybe wants you to push. Pause and re-escalate, let her reinitiate at some point to make sure this is what she wants.
• BONUS: REVENGE PORN: this entitled bitch is filthy rich thanks to both divorce-rapes, but guess what, nobody loves her, not even her current boyfriend. She told me how lonely she was. If she dies from this cancer (and it looks pretty serious) she will die alone.
max_peenor 8y ago
Women talk about having sex with others, when they aren't interested in you. I call this "The Orbiter Sexual Torture Technique"
Women talk about not having sex with others, when they are interested in you. I call this "I'm-not-a-slut-honest-injun Syndrome." They are trying to improve their attractiveness by vetting their virtue.
theredman89 8y ago
All power to you mate. Not criticizing from a blue/red perspective but it seems like you are the type of fella who if told "there are no rules at this party", would shit in his hand and fling it at people.
RojoEscarlata 8y ago
He is not the one in a relationship.
Popeman79 8y ago
Haha I laughed..
Actually I have personal rules: I never lie, never go for a friend's girlfriend or plate, and I always keep my word.
[deleted] 8y ago
So, the shitting in your hand and flinging it at people is still on the table, then?
peterson2004 8y ago
ehh, even for a zen monk this is a stretch. You mentioned to her she should take you on her trip. Although it's a joke, it plants a seed in her mind that you want some form of LTR.
lurkingtacopiller 8y ago
It's not his fault if she inferences something that isn't actually there. If a bitch reading too much into what isn't real is lying, we've all lied an egregious number of times.
[deleted] 8y ago
Why would you LTR this bitch though
dr_warlock 8y ago
Q: How do you know a girl is horny?
A: when you put your hand in her pants and it feels like you're feeding a horse.
Everyone should remember that a girl will never mention sex with a guy she would not have sex with. If she mentions it, sex is on her mind. You have to lead her to the conclusion on a plausible deniable path.
(Game is being naughty while keeping her image nice.)
Also, never go "omg thats terrible, are you okay?!?". It can be cancer, rape, death in the family, doesnt matter. Just sit and listen unfazed. Dont let her emotional state rattle yours.
Good post.
Neuro_Skeptic 8y ago
Q: How do you know a girl is into you?
A: Do you read The Red Pill? Then she's not.
VodkaTankerSpill 8y ago
Never fed a horse, so what's it like?
TWYW 8y ago
Thanks for the horse thing, I bursted out laughing like crazy.
[deleted] 8y ago
Recent thing that happened to me that I didn't know how to interpret. At a small party. 4 guys that the women blatantly dismiss as unattractive, me and my other RP aware friend about same number of women.
We are playing a game akin to cards against humanity. Two of the women would not stfu about sex. Granted the game we ended up playing was very sexual, but these two were obnoxious about it. Does this mean they were attracted to us and trying to send signals?
I just thought it was strange that they were pushing so hard on the topic around so many guys they had no attraction to.(the reason I know this is because they openly would insult the guys about their virginity and the guys would take it.)
untonyto 8y ago
This scenario fits into what one Red Pill writer called a "secret sexual society," which includes all women and a very small number of clued-in Alpha males with unlimited access to all women. Now the talkative women correctly identified you two as alphas and the other males as betas. With their sexual talk they teased the betas for the inside joke/sadism (outsiders can't compute even when being mocked) while letting the alphas know it's on (by talking sex). Probably didn't even know they were doing it consciously.
PrinceofSpades 8y ago
Imo, handle a situation like that the same way you would most other shittests with a new person; agree and amplify. Act like the beta aren't there when it comes to the girls. Interact with the betas independently of the girls in an opposite manner (friendly and positive, unlike these bitches). Then sexually escalate with the women because they clearly have it on their mind. They were likely teasing those men into trying to grow a pair and fuck them, or use them to try and get you and your mate to fuck them. Point is, they were horny.
needless_pickup_line 8y ago
To be fair, plenty of girls will rub their hookups and conquests into an orbiter's face. Remember to use your best judgment and context is key.
FreeRadical5 8y ago
I was going to agree but then I realized that no girl has EVER talked to me about sex that did not want me that way.
Just don't become enough of a bitch that a girl is telling you about fucking other guys. Otherwise this advice is golden.
vengefully_yours 8y ago
The look on her orbiters face when you get farther in five minutes then he has in years is priceless. Watching her bring up fucking while talking to you and you've known her mere minutes has to be killing him.
[deleted] 8y ago
It kills me a lot actually. Very accurate description.
:(
Stormhammer 8y ago
Jesus christ the mental image of a vagina being like feeding s horse has me laughing my ass off
masnera 8y ago
yeah...it fucked up my imagination.
Stormhammer 8y ago
I'm just imagining something hot and moist, that ends up breathing heavily and nipping my fingers lmao
[deleted] 8y ago
I imagined a horse cock fucking a girl.
:D
Popeman79 8y ago
You're absolutely right. If she's going through a hard time she needs you to be stoic. Acknowledge the bad news but don't pick up on it. Joke, change the subject, lift her spirit up. Also, showing too much empathy is often associated with showing weakness in their mind.
Clint_Redwood 8y ago
This is a fucking cornerstone lesson to be learned here. I use to do this shit.
One time my plate came over when I was having a bunch of people over. She walks in and in an instant everyone notices she's pissed and extremely stressed. It was like watching a lion walk into a room filled with deer. Everyone stopped what they were doing to watch. She walks in and slammed the door shut, with an intent pace like she's on a mission, no eye contact to anyone, just fucking pissed. One of those things were in a half second of sizing someone up you know instantly, something is wrong.
What did everyone else do? Guys and girls, "Omg, what's going on? What did you do Clint!!!? is she alright? Go talk to her!!!"
Me? Stone fucking cold. I look at a girl that hit me with one of those questions and replied, "Eh". Shrugged it off, took another sip of my drink and continued finishing my conversation I originally was having with another person. Completely nonchalant like it didn't even phase me.
I finished the conversation, got myself another drink, someone told me to go check her again, "Alright, I'll be back". I slowly walk up stairs, turn the corn into my room where she's dropping her stuff and changing.
"Tell me whats wrong"(I thought some shit like her sister is in the hospital or something)
She explodes. Word vomiting like she can't throw it up fast enough. "Everything! Today has been such...." she rattles on for a minute or two, i just stand there silently. she finally finishes.
TL;DR she had a bad day.
"K, now that you got that out it's time to have a fun night, here's a drink. Get ready and I'll be downstairs waiting for you". I kiss her, grab her ass and walk out.
She's fucking grinning from ear to ear.
I walk downstairs and this whole thing is over in less than 3 minutes. Some of the guest are confused. "Clint, what the fuck was that? Why the fuck are you down here so soon?"
"I handled it"
"What? She look liked her mom just died?"
"I handled it, she's good"
she comes down about 5 minutes later like she's standing on a fucking rainbow pissing skittles and gold coins.
Now here is what I would have done before TRP.
immediately run up to her or follow her upstairs like a lost dog trying to entertain his master.
I would have taken the beta shaming as if it's somehow my fucking fault she's upset regardless that there is zero evidence to support that.
I would have slowly walked in the room, timid and scared of what i was about to face barly peeking my head around the corner and asking her something like, "Baby, is everything alright?"
Fuck that, you're a man, you know somethings wrong. You can read your girl like a fucking book. Cut the shit and get to the point. Don't ask her what's wrong, tell her to tell you exactly whats wrong. Otherwise she will dance around the subject for fucking who knows how long. (I actually planned this part out as i was getting my drink downstairs and how to handle the situation, thanks to TRP of course).
"I'm sorry honey, here's a drink, are you alright? Is everything ok? Anything you want me to do?"
Fucking Jesus Christ on two sticks. I can not believe I use to be like this. She had a bad day, she's a fucking adult, she can handle it. She isn't some fucking defenselessly fawn you have to always check on. Don't let her emotional state influence yours. You bring her into a good state, aka your state and then everything is fucking peachy.
We would have spent the next 20 minutes to possibly hours talking about her bullshit. All the while, she would be focusing herself on all the negative shit and building up even more anger and stress. All of this would fester and escalate the situation. This is also a dangerous fucking road as when a woman is emotionally charged it's very easy for her to misinterpret anything you say. The more you say, the more risk you run of her taking it wrong. Then, all this shit is aimed at you. Then the cannons start firing directly at you. I believe any man that's dated before RP can perfectly relate to this scenario.
You know how you get rid of stress? Sex or deal with it. You want to be her escape from stress, not her emotional punching bag she shits all over. Let her talk to her girl friends if she really needs to vent, they are built for that shit, it's what woman do. Men, your job is to be her escape.
And lastly, never explain yourself. Early into my TRP life i would have boasted about fixing this so quick. Look at me, I'm Clint. I can handle a girl being ridiculous. Good for you now shut the fuck up and stop bragging cause what you just accomplished is the equivalent of making a little kid stop crying. Never explain yourself and always say as little as you can, 48 laws.
By leaving it ambiguous as to "how I handled it" people will only hamster away at their ideal possible way they would have handled it. when you let others imagination fill in shit, they will always fill it in with the best way they can think of if they where in that situation. You give them the starting scenario, aka girl fucking pissed, then the end scenario, she's fine within 3 minutes of spending time with me. Everything else? The guests can fill it in with their imagination.
aazav 8y ago
Dude. You used* to do this shit.
Use is present tense. Used is past tense. This is basic English.
Kaptcho 8y ago
You should make a new post just about this.
An_All-Beef_Engineer 8y ago
Clint, you are a cunt for not making this a separate post. Please do so immediately.
iamrsj 8y ago
+1 great story, you handled it perfectly
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0kool74 8y ago
this is one of the many reasons I love TRP......the vernacular that some use in their story telling is nothing short of specfuckingtacular.
Clint_Redwood 8y ago
thank /u/gaylubeoil for that. I take notes off his writing style. I use to write purely analytical/educational posts.
yumyumgivemesome 8y ago
This was a perfectly tuned approach. Just as you said, the obvious beta approach would have been "Baby, is everything alright?"
However, the not-so-obvious beta approach could also have been "WTF was that all about?" It doesn't matter that the man feels like a man for being aggressive because it immediately signals to her that she successfully drew the guy into her emotional frame. He's no longer an anchor but rather an adversary in a game that women are far more skilled at playing.
DarkuSchneider 8y ago
Additionally if she is upset in certain ways an antagonistic approach like 'WTF was all that about' or teasing will light the fuse that blows the powder keg up in your face. I agree, the OPs handling was perfect IMHO. He was acting with authority but stayed out of her emotional state without putting her on defense so she could decompress. He was taking care of her needs and her positive reaction confirms that. Men and women handle stress differently.
Ephidemical 8y ago
A very nice example that I can learn from. I used to do this shit and worry (even boast that I worried a lot about a girl I was orbiting) my ass off for nothing. In the end she was fucking her Chad on the side, while I spent my brain cells on thinking a solution for her, that she'd never follow.
Clint_Redwood 8y ago
When girls do this shit all they are doing is getting rid of emotional discomfort. She's stressed and wants to get rid of it.
How?
By word vomiting all her shit onto someone else. You don't want to be that someone else. Let her girlfriends handle that if they need to, woman are built to talk and work out their problems together, girl power, team girl and all that shit. Men, we are not designed to handle woman's emotional turmoil. We can do it in extreme cases like when you need to be a rock, aka, losing a family member, pet or something.
You shouldn't be totally void of empathy, but use some fucking context and basic judgement. If it was a dude acting like this I do the exact same thing.
She had a bad day. Of course i didn't know this at the time of walking up the stairs but 20 seconds into her exploding I realized this isn't a fucking big deal and she'll be fine, all i have to do is give her a reason to be fine for(let go have fun and party instead of focusing on this negativity).
Jojobelle 8y ago
i remember this from trp a while back. women want to just talk about their problems, men hear the prolem and offver a solution , women dont want that
[deleted] 8y ago
"If you want a shoulder to cry on, call your girlfriends. If you want a way to fix the problem, call me."
DarkuSchneider 8y ago
This is correct. If they want a fix they will ask or coax you in to doing it somehow. Most of the time they just need to get it off their chests or actually their brain that won't let them forget it to their torment. Men and women handle stress very differently mentally and biologically. TLDR no short way to explain it exactly but is a reason behind the nature of men and women.
Men build up the stress hormone Cortisol when active and it is moderated by Testosterone. Men lower their stress by generating TS to get rid of the Cortisol in a few ways; solving problems, achievements, exploring newness of something, Physical but rewarding activities, teaching (especially your kids) aka doing positive shit tied to healthy masculinity. We get rewards when our brains think we fulfilled various biological imperatives and cause Dopamine and a few other hormones to be made that trigger TS production and it lowers Cortisol in our bodies among other things like make us feel happy and confident. If we can't do anything about sources of stress we relax and literally turn off our brains and 'forget about it' until we can do something about it or we get pissed. Science has studied stress and heart disease for decades when they realized in the lab stress (cortisol) kills. So we deal with the issue or relax or live in constant denial hiding in a room playing xbox (the 'achievement' system is popular to some for a reason and addictive). The body does a cruel thing to men when cortisol is too high and you are unable to do anything to generate TS. Before it poisons the organs (and has reached the levels only found in the most deadly predators in nature btw) your body releases another chemical called aromatas and it turns every drop of free TS you have left into Estrogen which causes the fear and anger centers of the brain to become hyper stimulated. This is why men when they lose it they don't fuck around and usually do something extreme see Elliot Rodgers because they are literally disconnected from their left brain and rationality and acting only on their emotional side and is how crimes of passion happen too. Because of this biological reaction your heart rate and body temp go up by rapid sugar burn being in fight or flight mode. Cortisol is used for a few things, one of them is to force the body to stop burning sugar so it lowers your cortisol by forcing it to be used if TS can't neutralize it fast enough. Being in this state too much is one way clinical depression happens and lots of beta bitches acing on feelings if they leave their house at all. The body is an amazing chemically controlled machine and does what it must to survive even if it has to seemingly fuck us up in the process.
Women require Oxytocin to moderate cortisol or they suffer the same fate as the man but more extreme as they are in the emotional side by default already being estrogen driven, but there are a few other differences. They literally can not 'forget about it' or ever stop cortisol production that happens 24/7 as a tax for the baby bakery that must constantly cycle her hormones to maintain tissues to be able to reproduce. It is also at 2-4 times the levels of a man always. All those hormone cycles also stimulate various parts of the brain as a side effect as why their emotionally fluid or suffer mood swings. When men relax and zone out to TV they literally stop their brains to stop cortisol production, women when they are at physical rest the brains speeds up and the big bad C keeps pumping which is why they require constant distraction if they are not doing something already. So nature gave them a very large collection of things that trigger the brain to produce Oxytocin and lower their stress. The trappings of motherhood and 'girly stuff' provide most of them, nurturing, feeding and doting on others, hugging/affection (welcome hugs are gold to them), holding babies(theirs or not)/bonding with their kids, getting unexpected compliments or gifts(wonder why they are greedy and seek validation now?), comparing and evaluating things involving people (why some love shopping but hate spending the money or looking at mags while saying something is or is not cute or would look good on them/someone), girl talk, evaluating their relationships, but orgasms happen to be the biggest known source in one shot so their behaviors are not all that shocking as they have gotten worse in the 40 years I have dealt with them.
Makes you wonder how in this modern world full of stress and lack of traditional roles why the women are going nuts or on anti-depressants, turning into psycho bitches, and/or gobbling as much exciting cock as they can find. They have shame because they know something is wrong and can't see it but the body will coerce via hormones to survive. Their options to lower stress have diminished and sources increased as they entered the workforce or try to be like men now days. Of course this was facilitated by the destruction of traditionalism and religion leaving a glut of beta males that can not take care of their needs besides divorce rape and cheating to get their needs met. The beta does not arouse them so they usually do not have a full or any orgasm denying them their biggest relief of stress, but the alpha that riles them gives them the 'big O shot' and lowers their stress greatly. If you have ever dealt with an upset woman that claims they can not banish a thought or image or feeling from their heads they are not always lying. The brain is flooding them with emotions and memories it wants to address and she gets two options to make it stop, resolve the issue immediately or talk about it until it goes away. This is why women always want to talk about their feelings and shit while you just want to forget it and watch the game. Women are communicators hardwired by nature to 'feel what others feel' and the brain gives them a small Oxytocin shot when they communicate the thoughts and feelings in their heads to another. By conveying the feeling/thought/memory the brain will then stop prodding them with it and lower their stress, it is kind of cruel. 'It puts on the lotion or it gets the hose' is a haunting movie quote to women for a reason. They live in chaotic bodies and need men to provide external support to calm them aka the rock they lean on. Men are often disconnected from their feelings and live in a analytical mind and she just does not, but she helps her man too by supporting him as well as helping them remember the emotional subtleties men often ignore for efficiency. In the old world a King was the source of power and disciplined the men and managed war and negotiated peace. The Queen was the King's spy and assassin in the social circles so the King knew peoples feelings, secrets, and motivations he could use in his calculations to exploit or foster good outcomes. A man and woman who are healthfully in their biological roles and cooperate and compliment each other often become 'power couples'; King and Queen, Bonnie and Clyde, Brad-Jolina, etc.
dr_warlock 8y ago
Make this a post, but with paragraphs.
Clint_Redwood 8y ago
Dude, you need to make a post on this. I'd suggest formatting it a bit more but this is shit that needs to be shared.
Have any cites or books you'd recommend on this?
Popeman79 8y ago
Long but very much worth the read. Very insightful
dat_mean_no_work 8y ago
This is valuable information. It's mind boggling that this is not taught in school even when there are Biology classes.
DarkuSchneider 8y ago
Most of it is taught or new research but in fragmented unrelated pieces so the patterns are not always obvious. Human nature has been a hobby of mine for quite some time.
Even this prestigious head doc who claims to be a feminist acknowledges men and women are different and nature wins over social narratives. One of my favorite quotes from it: "The best advice I have for women is make peace with the male brain. Let men be men."
http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/03/23/brizendine.male.brain/index.html
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hiphoprising 8y ago
It absolutely amazes me how easily women will cheat on their man (or provider, whatever). I had a girl last Friday that I hadn't spoken with in about a month or so text me while I was at a show, she happened to be at a bar about two blocks from me. Didn't pay much attention because I wasn't really looking to go out of my way. Once midnight hit she ended up texting me again saying I should come by the bar. I know what this means (from previous interactions) and I say I'm not staying out much later but I'll swing by. She says "don't come in, I'll meet you out front" (red flag). At first I'm thinking, hm, maybe she's embarassed or with friends that have heard about me and will shun her for being around me.
Everything you would expect to go on in a truck parked in an isolated place happens. Then afterwards she hits me with "I think this was a bad idea, I have a boyfriend now". I don't really give any leeway and kind of shrug off the conversation. After all, at this point I'm tired and I wanna go home and sleep. She leads the conversation into "he's a great guy, really sweet, takes me out (blahllbahlbah) but I'm just not really sexually attracted to him" much like this woman in OP.
Although I've followed this sub for about two or three years, it still blows my mind when you have this AF/BB scenario thrown in your face. It makes me think, how can I date someone and have a real relationship if girls like this are cheating on their boyfriends without a care in the world? It's actually pretty depressing. I'm over this "fuck random girls" stage and want to start into the captain/first-mate dynamic but I'm so worried the ONLY outcome is this AF/BB dynamic. It's upsetting.
Popeman79 8y ago
Same here. At first understanding girls was awesome, because I could get laid like never before. And, since then, I've never had to make any efforts to get laid.
But now we are on the other side and we see everything behind the curtains. We see how women manipulate men, how their hypergamy is out of control. I'm in my mid-30s and it's almost impossible to find a single girl that is not super young that still holds some value for a relationship. Once they've even tried the cock carousel it seems like there is no turning back.
I recently had a discussion with highly-recognized fellow redpiller /u/OmLaLa where he was basically telling me that LTRs are bound to fail. I, like you, still crave for a relationship, because I think that there is more to it than just sex and companionship. Something about joining energies, feeding off one another, I don't know.
Anyway, as you say it's at the same time exhilarating and pretty depressing to learn about women. If you manage to succeed in a LTR spread the good word.
nbk89 8y ago
Good LTRs exist, but the chances of you meeting and having one is slim. Generally, we attract people like ourselves.
hopelessoneitis 8y ago
The fact that you also made sure you returned the keys to her boyfriend is the icing on the cake!
Besides the absolutely savage post, your info on sex discussion is rather enlighting.
Good read. Good text lenght, nicely formatted and juicy.
aptway 8y ago
I found the following site very helpful in learning how to steer my conversations on dates with women in a sexual direction. It teaches you how to slowly orient the conversation in that direction, which works even better when you add ramping inebriation into the mix.
The only caveat I would add (from personal experience) is that asking if she'd be ok having sex on the first date if the connection was strong enough is too overt and sets off the ASD, even if she actually wants to.
[deleted] 8y ago
I must be too picky or too anxious because for me that situation reeks of several red flags.
Too geographically convenient for her to just barge in whenever.
Too much baggage.
She's a smoker.
On the other hand I like your post and think it was a great field report.
redkick 8y ago
OP didn't want to marry her.
[deleted] 8y ago
Oh I know man. I'm not saying he shouldn't charge it. I'm just saying this could be a potentially drama filled situation. Which is not my cup of tea
Popeman79 8y ago
She's flying out this friday and may, ahem, never come back, so I took my chances. If she does come back it will be some time from now. Also I don't live in the US so false rape charges are not such a threat here.
[deleted] 8y ago
Word. It was an easy up. Although the funny look was probably related to her lying about going over to your place.
aDrunkenWhaler 8y ago
Would have been funny if the boyfriend said something like: 'What the hell are you talking about, mate? She doeesn't have cancer.'
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savedarticles 8y ago
smoker just means slut 95% of the time. this is a dead giveaway. As are tattoos/piercing in general.
PrinceofSpades 8y ago
No wonder Portland is such a grimy sex-fest. A recent ONS was talking about how she went to a swingers party and got train ran her by like 8 married dudes that night. She's 22. More tats than the average girl around here by a lot though.
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[deleted] 8y ago
Agreed. I just hate the taste. And it screams "bad choices"
TheBadGod 8y ago
You don't like it? I'm a coffee guy, and the high I get from the smoke on a smoker's mouth is heavy.
[deleted] 8y ago
for me its like tasting an ash tray. Immediate turn off.
mugatucrazypills 8y ago
I used to like fucking smokers, because their dirtiness turns me on. But fuck, wouldn't want one in my house or in an LTR of any kind.
Dirtier than a dog. That ashtray smell and taste runs right through them.
[deleted] 8y ago
For me its the slave to an addiction, and the "can I smoke in here" question to which you say "no" and then they get all fucking pissy.
Its a lifestyle choice, and it doesnt line up with my lifestyle choice, there fore we arent compatible. Next.
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savedarticles 8y ago
Smoking, tattoos (the larger the more of a slut) shows character flaws. That is lack of self control, have herd mentality, social anxiety and addiction issues (smoking alleviates), and a desperate need to get attention/validation from other tattoo pimping alphas.
Now, all women have this to a certain degree but once a girl goes off the deep end by getting tattoos all over her body, it's always accompanied by various permiscuous behaviors.
There are always outliers. I've known good normal looking girls what were mega sluts but these days I can sniff them out easily. Just takes a trained eye. However, this is a minority.
I don't know about prostitutes or call girls.
RPmatrix 8y ago
Indeed. thanks for you considered reply
Mithra9009 8y ago
The cause of the correlation is irrelevant. That poster never said anything about why the two are correlated. He never gave any kind of scientific proof or argument. His statement is purely that there is a correlation.
RPmatrix 8y ago
and I'm asking "what?" that correlation is and how is it made? What's it based upon, what rationale? What is a Slut in this context?
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Mithra9009 8y ago
His own personal observation and experiences. The fact that it was thumbed up so much means that a lot of people agree with his observation.
What defines a slut in this context? Well that's going to depend on what you think a slut even is. If you don't agree with his observation because it doesn't line up with yours then that's that. It'd potentially be helpful to everyone however if you took the time to consider things like the era you were living in, the ethnic and socioeconomic background of the woman in question, her location, etc. and then considered why the poster's statement is or isn't accurate. You have to keep in mind, everything here is fundamentally speculative and heuristic.
RPmatrix 8y ago
so many words, so little meaning, none of value to me
ILoveSunflowers 8y ago
Again read the sidebar. You're asking basic questions.
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ArkAngelEV 8y ago
Serious injury or illness does make some people go out and taste things they really wanted to do but were to chicken shit to consider when life is rosy. +1 to you, haven't done a cancer girl. Or a midget for that matter
[deleted] 8y ago
Let's play a game
You die in 24 hours. You can do whatever you wanted to do.
Plot twist: you don't actually die. How fucked are you?
boscoist 8y ago
Dont bother with the midget, trust me. Huge napoleon complex is highly likely...
ArkAngelEV 8y ago
I bet. It's just I want to know what it feels like for an NBA powerforward to bang a regular sized woman. The inches difference equates to a 4'10" or shorter girl for me...
Reddthrown 8y ago
It means you have to keep your chest up while you go at it so you don't smother her. I'm not NBA tall, but pretty tall, and it's actually not that great with short girls. Taller girls are far more comfortable.
hiphoprising 8y ago
Had a girl that was 4'10. It's one thing when your girl is normal height and really light and you can sling her around, but when they're 4'10 its almost like you're just dealing with an oversized teddy bear. There's no weight to them, you might as well velcro them to the ceiling when you aren't fucking.
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Popeman79 8y ago
Yeah come to think of it, I might regret this. As I said not so much with a false rape accusation (not where I live), but yes the drama. But oh well, you live and you learn.
johnchapel 8y ago
Id like to hear more about when you said she'd either pick up on the free trip, or she'd pick up on the taking care of her. What would her reaction have been to that to make you say bingo! sooner? Im sortof fascinated by this test
Popeman79 8y ago
The way I would break it down is that I say a sentence that has two poles.
Positive pole is: if you took me with you I would take better care of you than your boyfriend. This implies a lot, it means I would travel with her, and would fuck her better than her bf does. It establishes I'm down to fuck.
Negative pole is: if you took me with you I could then visit this country for free, I've never been there. This is the asshole move.
Now what is important is to have both poles of equal value and importance. In the sentence, one doesn't stand out before the other. If both poles, both propositions, are balanced, you create a frame that she now is in. It's important to show that you are comfortable with both propositions: tone and delivery, and humour, are very important. You can either way be her lover or an asshole that takes advantage of her.
Once the frame is established and balanced, it's like giving her options: she can pick up on either pole, or anything in between. As both poles are equal, everything is neutral and what she picks really reflects her state of mind.
In this case, she could have gone full flirty by saying "well your proposition is good, maybe you should go with me instead of my boyfriend". There she is full positive, bingo.
She could have gone midway, for example saying "yeah but I don't know if you would stand the local food and I wouldn't want to be taking care of you". She ackowledges the idea of going with me but brings up something negative to compensate.
Well you get the idea. Create a frame that is both positive and negative, and own up to it (you're interested, not interested, you're cool either way). Once she is in that frame, she will reveal where she stands.
In this case she bailed and didn't reveal anything conclusive, but it came soon after.
mrust 8y ago
This is known as a "double bind" You give conflicting messages so that either way you win. Women do this all the time. The only way to win is to reframe.
johnchapel 8y ago
Do you think its possible for a third unexpected response that is based on her misinterpretation of either pole completely?
Popeman79 8y ago
I mean I gave you two examples of possibles responses, but there is an infinite array of responses. And of course she could answer something unrelated alltogether.
The main point is that the form of the message is more important than the content. It's not a science and we shouldn't learn it like that. We should focus instead on our own frame: I'm willing to fuck her, but I'm as well willing to make fun of her or take advantage of her. And I'm cool and comfortable with both options equally.
It doesn't matter what you say. If she feels that frame she will respond accordingly.
johnchapel 8y ago
Thats fucking awesome. I can't believe I never worked this into my inner game.
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[deleted] 8y ago
Good story OP, you read the situation perfectly. Returning the keys was straight up savage.
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Sluttymcdoughnut 8y ago
Im so fucking glad about this post. My english skills are not very good so I've lost many advices including this covert and plausible deniability before, but you've molded this shit so well! My Thanks for you op.
I have had this conversation too many times and just been so unaware. Heres one particular memory that haunts me:
So I live in northern eu where student life particularly is very moisted with alcohol, this had gotten out of my hands and I decided to put a break for a while. I took my car and still went out with my friends for an excuse. When I that night left the club one blond hb7 friend of mine followed me to the car and wanted to go home, i took her in since we were going to the same neighbourhood but she refused to get out and she was giving these hints and changing topic to sex for many times and her eyes just drooled lust. Yet blue me just drove her away instead of her blowing me away.
dr_warlock 8y ago
This is why you can't use the clever game or wit with women who don't have a good grasp on your language. AWALT still applies, but you have to be more direct and make your lines simple and cheesy.
Popeman79 8y ago
Thanks.
And yes, when it's PUA techniques it's pretty straightforward, flirt, go for it and score or get rejected. But when it's more complex (in my case a neighbor, in yours a friend) it's really difficult to understand the subtext.
I think we still have a lot to learn about covert communication, of which women are masters.
unicorn-carousel 8y ago
...
THANK YOU, I've really been hungry for more examples like this. In the first quote, it sounds like you gave two "hooks" and knew how to categorize the major responses. In the latter, that sounds expertly played--"anything". Seems low level to wiser men I'm sure, but very helpful to guys like me who are still flopping around with this stuff.
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Popeman79 8y ago
Haha no man. It's not my war. Also we don't know what happens between them. Maybe he's unfaithful too. TRP taught me no to save those who don't seek to be saved.
Moldy_Gecko 8y ago
Thank god we're amoral here! Decent write up.
[deleted] 8y ago
There's nothing more moral than giving some D to a helpless female cancer victim.
This man is a saint.
[deleted] 8y ago
Her hamster wholeheartedly agrees.
PrinceofSpades 8y ago
I agree; she was dealing with emotional overload and her boyfriend was too entrenched in the "emotional support" category to be who she turned to in her time of sexual need.
I'm not nearly so saint-like; I would have probably busted up laughing upon hearing that she had cancer and it would have caused her to put her cigarette out on me then leave. Granted, I know all the bad karma in the world will catch up to me sooner or later, but OP really is a good guy. He gave her what she needed AND helped her boyfriend start to see his girl cheats and is not what he believes her to be.
That's a damn good soul right there.
Popeman79 8y ago
I actually think this little encounter would be interesting to discuss with a bluepiller:
Bluepiller’s point of view: OMG she was confused, she told you she has cancer and is depressed and you took advantage of her, also you know her boyfriend with whom you had dinner and he’s right next door, all you have on your mind is sex you selfless redpiller bastard. On top of it she gives you sex and you call her a bitch, you’re an asshole.
Redpiller’s point of view: I didn’t come to her, she came to me with her cute revealing tank top. I didn’t initiate sex, she did. Everything was covert but she made the first outright move when she asked me to kiss her. She is the one cheating on her boyfriend who is right next door to her. The same boyfriend who will accompany her to another country so she gets treatment. She told me she repeatedly denies him sex, but throws herself at me. She doesn’t even mind that he could see us kiss from their kitchen window. Also, I’ve seen how she treats him, like a doormat. And when we had dinner she was reaaaally proud of her ‘accomplishments’ which basically consisted of divorce-raping two successful guys. She didn’t give me sex, I gave her sex, which she asked for. I actually had other plans for the evening and I’m happy with my current state of plates. I went along because I thought it would be interesting, which it turned out to be.
Given all of the above, I’m entitled to call her a bitch. She doesn’t get a pussy pass for being a lying cheater, nor a cancer pass for that matter.
Bluepill is about feelz, Redpill is about personal accountability, man or woman.
unicorn-carousel 8y ago
Thinking of it this way has been helpful. I didn't plan it consciously, but since a lot more girls have been coming onto me in the last few weeks especially, like hard IoIs and hovering, I started seeing sufficiently large SMV differentials as them coming to me or me spending time on them as giving (!!!). Like I could probably get free blowjobs from some of these chicks, and I don't think she'd be sad that she didn't "get" to come or anything. Like a BJ is a simple tax now or something. Hi Spring in a fit body, for the first time.
Nice job, amoral son of a bitch. You did the Chloes of the world a favor.
RMK24 8y ago
This was a good explanation of the situation. I would say it was risky with the boyfriend next door, but at least you got some pussy.
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[deleted] 8y ago
you made a little typo there buddo
Moldy_Gecko 8y ago
I'm going to upvote him only because I sense it's sarcasm.
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[deleted] 8y ago
I have nothing to say on the subject of morality, but in terms of his own safety, I think this situation could have easily lead to a false rape accusation. If she breaks down and confesses to her boyfriend, her hamster could easily steer this situation into a potentially dangerous area. Pretty risky if you ask me.
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mugatucrazypills 8y ago
maybe OP has more hidden cams than the CIA.
Popeman79 8y ago
As I replied below, they fly out on friday and she might be back in a long time.. or never. Also I live in South America, false rape accusations are really rare. Well, don't try this at home..
redzorp 8y ago
Makes sense if you are not in the Anglosphere.
Personally, I would never take a chance in a situation like this anywhere in the fucked up West precisely because of the high probability of a false rape accusation. In fact, this situation could not be any more perfect for such a set-up. It has all the right ingredients.
eccentricrealist 8y ago
God bless indifferent governments
dr_warlock 8y ago
That should have been your intro. Like mythbusters.
masnera 8y ago
after reading your fr, don't tell me what to try or not.
RedMoonAscendant 8y ago
You may know far more than OP. Or you might be a self-centered retard. Your comment is useless, so most will probably assume the latter.
Try to be a little more specific next time you decide to shit on someone's experience.
masnera 8y ago
You misinterpret me, i would like to say that... what happen to the OP's experience based on his FR is great experience and i will always try it at home if the scenario present itself. Keep your cool, and i'm not trying to shit on someones experience. Jeez..
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verify_account 8y ago
Do I sense some sarcasm there my moral friend :) No need to be butthurt.
Moldy_Gecko 8y ago
If I was sarcastic, I wouldn't have written "Decent Write up". My point is if he posted this elsewhere, you would have got a million SJWs ripping into him. He reminds me of me when I was younger, the only part that would hold me back is probably the cancer.
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[deleted] 8y ago
Women are so hard-wired to be extremely selective when it comes to sex that they won't even hint at anything sexual in conversation if they're not interested in it. Speaking in terms of evolution, if she did so in the presence of a Beta, she runs the risk of holding weak offspring in her for 9 months.
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Eugenics2015 8y ago
Why do some guys act like they have to have sex with every girl on earth?
Like holy shit... you cant do any better than a chick who is dying of cancer with her boyfriend next door? Thirsty men have ruined the SMP more than blue men imo. And if a chick says 30 thirty times that means you should have told her to leave
no more nos after that.
whuttupfoo 8y ago
Really though. This is borderline psychopathic thirst for pussy. Niggas out here fucking bitches with cancer.
5t3fan0 8y ago
it was kindness, she got more happiness from his D than he from her P
what, are cancer patient not supposed to have fun and fuck-ups like non-cancer ones??
dr_warlock 8y ago
He gave a poor dying girl a reme-D for her pain. As she takes her last breath on the hospital bed, the woman will remember her times with Chad as life leaves her body. He saved her soul.
How could you take that away from her!?!
Eugenics2015 8y ago
Normal men dont get turned on by that mental image. Do you though
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always-be-closing 8y ago
Literally the entire premise of 'Netflix and Chill'
BenOfMahogany 8y ago
This week on asktrp:
"Guise my cancer ridden girlfriend went to another guys house and I think they banged. I've been such a Nice Guy! Why would she do this to me?!"
[deleted] 8y ago
more like on relationshits, i doubt he would be in that situation (provide to a divorce rapist) if he even knew what RP is
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Popeman79 8y ago
That's funny, I don't know why you're getting downvoted..
reigorius 8y ago
Did this scenario ever happen? It would be beyond insightful.
BenOfMahogany 8y ago
If you dig through asktrp, there are lots of "Guys I was such a Nice Guy! Why is my girlfriend sucking Chad's cock in the bathroom?!"
reigorius 8y ago
I mean redpiller fucking a slut with a bluepill boyfriend. Both boyfriend and redpiller end up here sharing there story.
BenOfMahogany 8y ago
Ohhh, I really don't know. That would be amusing as hell though
Popeman79 8y ago
Actually before writing the report I thought whether her or especially her boyfriend were on TRP. Cause it's pretty specific, and they would recognize themselves pretty easily. But then somebody on this sub wouldn't be treated as a doormat as this guy is, so I thought I was safe. Which kinda answers your question I guess. If somebody can be played as much as to appear as the 'loser' in a field report here, he's probably not on the sub anyway.
Sir_Distic 8y ago
This is something I'd heard before but never understood until I found TRP. When women are upset they don't want a solution. They want to vent.
Reddthrown 8y ago
What on earth are girls thinking. "I have cancer" - is that supposed to turn me on? OP, I admire you for having the libido to go for her after she dropped that bomb.
[deleted] 8y ago
bitch with The Big C wants The Big D
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DafyddBreen 8y ago
Stop putting yourself in the shoes of cancer girl's boyfriend of one second.
[deleted] 8y ago
I didn't I put myself in op's shoes and I didn't like them.
Popeman79 8y ago
Hey this is the sack of shit speaking.
Please kindly explain why you think so, and especially why you wouldn't mention that she is a pretty bigger sack of shit than I am then.
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Popeman79 8y ago
Hey thanks for actually responding with arguments. And your response is actually thoughtful, because you don't give me the stupid discourse about how I took advantage of her (I didn't), but talk about mixing with negative people. I meditate a lot and try to be very aware of positive/negative energies stemming from people and relationships, so I value your point. I also am straight up against the IDGAF attitude prevalent on this forum, always have been.
First, yes she is poisonous, but not because of cancer. I don't mind the cancer thing, and I don't think it should affect the discussion either way. Yes I think she is a poisonous person who has been uncapable of giving and receiving love, and she is drying out because of it, but please leave the ' cancerous pussy' out of it. I hope your LTR never gets sick for chrissake...
Regarding standards and poisonous people, I guess there is really no point in trying to convince you that I have my life in order. I'm actually not keen on casual sex. I like establishing relationships with girls that bring joy and elevation to my life. This woman was an exception, which I believe was worth it. I gave her what she needed (which was, you can guess, more than just sex, that she could have anytime with her boyfriend), and I came out of it unscathered and with a unique experience.
Your point is perfectly valid but you're too prompt to jump to conclusions imho.
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Adolf_ghandi 8y ago
I swear this bitch was confused. In her mind you probably took forever to get the hint l. Queue lmr.
That been said you did a good job covertly finding put her interest. But I guess she expected you to be more bold.
[deleted] 8y ago
She's a moron if she thinks a dude is going to be that forward with a woman under any circumstances without obvious green lights.
fuck_da_haes 8y ago
Don't shit were you eat, I fucked a neighbour once and paid the price ... I would never fuck anybody who I work with or who lives less then 500m away.
Swanksterino 8y ago
I lol-ed so hard at this. Your covert game, is not exactly covert, guy. More sort of overt.
Moreover, you sound like a real weak little prick, and it sounds to me like you are actually a BP troll. It doesn't take any talent at all to bang bored, over the hill housewives, with cancer. It takes literally zero skill.
Cool story, bro.
EDIT: Yeah and the 50x asking method you use to close, is more commonly known as begging.
[deleted] 8y ago
This post in fantastic ways that I'm not even sure you set out to make---or maybe you're a great writer and have a way with subtext(who knows!).
This post can apply to everything from Business to Dating to Friends to your current job.
Everything is about the upper hand, gauging how much power the other person has given you, seeing what they want and what they're willing to give you.
So many men give themselves away, they don't play the game, the jump right into the contract signing without negotiation; or, even worse, they take the first offer and don't see what else they can get because they're afraid of losing everything.
2.That person, if smart, will try and regain power by "future offering", saying what "will happen" or "could happen", or simply teasing you---Be it like this women and her tits or your boss talking about "future salaries".
Your job is to MAKE SURE THEY NEGOTIATE WITH THEMSELVES AND YOU NEVER DO. If you want sex then don't ever take it off the table. If you want a certain dollar figure, don't go beneath it. Find out what the other person wants and make THEM fight against themselves.
The longer you wait to acknowledge a woman's advances the more feverish and fervent they will be in them. Make a woman come out and say EXACTLY what she wants. Once she admits it she can't go back, she can't return it, she can't rationalize it.
This is a great post.
Popeman79 8y ago
You should write a post on covert communication in line with your comment -but hopefully clearer as I didn't get all of it. It is one of the most powerful tools there is in dealing with women.
Thanks for your contribution
[deleted] 8y ago
I am not so self-aggrandizing that I'd need an entire thread for what I can give you in this quick post.
1.People only want what they can get from you: Money or Time or Attention or Kinship, etc.
2.When someone approaches you, your job is to figure out what it is they're looking for.
3.You do this by looking for clues in their words and actions.
4.Once you have a clue you test it by putting forth 2 responses, one correct, one directly opposite, to gauge their reaction.
5.Once you trigger the proper reaction you decide if you're going to give it to them and at what cost, for example:
My best friend comes to me with an issue, I charge him nothing in compensation. We've shared trials and tribulations and I no longer need anything from him but continued respect and kinship.
With women it's different, your price is the removal of subtlety, a removal of an exit. For example:
1.I used to like fucking women I met at work. Before I take their numbers I make them say "I Want To Fuck You". This means, after work, when I go to hang out and try to fuck, they can't fall back on their patented
"I was just flirting" bullshit. I destroy that anti-slut barrier immediately,
Popeman79 8y ago
Ok now I get it. Thanks. It's more or less what I replied to somebody else below, but I like your approach as well. Thanks
PillyQ 8y ago
Could you explain your last 2 paragraphs? How do you get them to say, "I want to fuck you?" What do you mean by ""I was just flirting" bullshit?"
[deleted] 8y ago
1.I'm a large black man. One of the few benefits of being this is that no woman approaches me to be "friends". Black men rarely if ever have girl "friends". This situation means any woman who approaches me wants one of two things: A Fuck or a Favor.
By taking certain actions and asking certain things, I quickly discern which is which. Once I figure out which is which I force them to admit it. If they want a favor I tell them loudly "Just ask for what you want, let's see if you're cute enough to get it"
If they want to fuck I simply tell them to whisper in my ear "You want to fuck me".
If they're not willing to do either then they get neither.
2.Women will often lead men on to get things, be it attention or money or favors. They do so through flirting, the subtle act of insinuating sexuality. It is your job to see through this and make it reality. Why you ask?
Women have this thing called "Anti Slut Defense" they put up whenever they know they're going to fuck someone. They'll say things like "I'm not sure" and "I've never done this before" and "we were just flirting".
By making women admit, upfront, that they want to fuck you, this removes any chances of flaking or lying. If she changes her mind she has to explicitly state "I wanted to fuck you and now I don't", at which point you walk away with a smile because you've just avoided an unstable woman.
0kool74 8y ago
sometimes you never know just how bad karma is going to be.
PopaBjorn 8y ago
Solid FR, nice example of covert communication. Gj dude.
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icecow 8y ago
It tells them "You can keep a secret"
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JohnStamosEnoughSaid 8y ago
I just don't buy it, something fishy.....
yumyumgivemesome 8y ago
Straight A post. When the B came to tell you about the C, you gave her the D.
UtopianfreeMan 8y ago
Plot twist: she didn't have cancer & played you like a boss.
fitnessacctasdf 8y ago
If a girl said no that many times I would kick her out. That's a much less fun game to play than a girl who accepts the fact that you both want to fuck.
[deleted] 8y ago
Don't agree with the Revenge Porn Bonus.
All of us die alone. The distinction is only timing and method.
[deleted] 8y ago
Unless you die from cardiac arrest because of cocaine OD while at an orgy part
Then it's not technically alone
waylandertheslayer 8y ago
The best way to not die alone is to become an alcoholic bus driver.
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CapitolTrillHillie 8y ago
I had a very similar encounter last month. I was driving my brand new Lamborghini when three 21 year old models flagged me down. Usually I'm far too alpha to give a fuck about these IOIs but happened to be bored. The three proposed a foursome as soon as I passed their shit test with flying colors. I didn't even bother to fuck them though, they only wanted validation before returning to their betas at home. Adieu.
Popeman79 8y ago
Yeah I get it, my story is fake. Well usually when I fantasize I come up with better scenarios than that. I like yours better for that matter.