Two weeks ago I went out with 3 female "friends" of mine (I don't believe in true friendship between males and females). I did know two of the girls and got to know the third one. I could tell from the get-go, that she was interested in me (playing with her hair, staring at my lips while I talked) and I found her attractive aswell, so at the end of the evening we exchanged numbers and the next day she added me on Facebook (she was clearly interested).
At that evening she told me, that she had an on-off relationship with her ex and that he dumped her, but I didn't think much of it at that time (I should've asked her, when it ended the last time to make sure, that she has emotionally healed).
A few days later I called her, to set up a date (always call them, it demonstrates confidence, even though I was a bit nervous) for last friday.
The date went well and we kissed about half an hour into the date and took a long walk after that, where she pressed up against me, before I walked her home.
As we parted ways she told me that she definitely wants to see me again soon, to which I agreed. The next day she chatted me up on Whatsapp and asked me for my schedule and we set up the next date. Later that day I received the following message from her:
She: I just talked to my ex-boyfriend and I think I still have feelings for him...I really enjoyed the time we spend yesterday :) But I think it would be best not to see each other again...
Me: The on-off thing? I really enjoyed the time aswell and I would love to see you in the future. There were hardly any meetings where I found someone so likeable from the get-go. If you change your mind, give me a call and maybe I'm still interested in seeing you :)
She: I found you really likeable aswell :) I will call you :)
___________________________________________________________________
I'm a bit frustrated to say the least and right after my response I thought, that I should've responded a bit more harshly like:
"Yeah, you're right. We shouldn't see each other again. You could fall in love with me, instead of chasing someone who dumped you and that would be terrible!"
Now that a few days have gone by, I'm glad that I didn't. Even though I think that her behaviour is stupid and that she is missing out on a great opportunity, I'm glad that I exited like a gentleman and didn't show her, that I was a bit pissed about her, going on a date while she still has feelings for someone else.
I will never text her again, unless she contacts me. My former self would've texted her maybe a few weeks later to check up on her, but over time I got experienced and learned to respect myself.
You should never chase someone who doesn't want you and I'm happy that I can look in the mirror without feeling like a little bitch, who tried to convince her to date me, instead of her ex.
I think what you can learn from the story is: Even if everything goes perfect and you did nothing wrong, there might be a chance that she will leave you for someone who she spent more time with in the past. Don't attach yourself to one girl, there are plenty fish in the sea. Always respect yourself enough to walk away, if she chooses someone else over you. It's her loss.
​
civilizedfrog 5y ago
I usually just reply with "gay" when someone ditches me. No need for essays.
p3n1x 5y ago
Are you sure your behavior and body language didn't change the second you heard about the "on-off guy"?
Did you fail to escalate based on this info being in the back of your mind?
Robster25 5y ago
Pretty sure. I learned about the "on-off guy" when I met her the first time (with the 2 other girls around), even though she told me it was in the past. That evening I got her number and when I met her alone the guy never even crossed my mind.
cjayfenn 5y ago
Just text her and say she turns you on and if she wants to fuck you will come lay down the hammer. Works for me
Arednor13 5y ago
These comments have been incredibly insightful.
Self-honest 5y ago
I'm only going to say this once, she wanted to get dicked down.
She wanted to get dicked down.
She wanted to get dicked down.
She wanted to get dicked down and she was telling you she wasn't currently getting the dicking she needed.
You should have dicked her down.
Good job.
She wanted to get dicked down.
She led you to her place because she wanted to get dicked down.
She wanted to get dicked down.
She still wanted to get dicked down even though you didn't man up the night before.
She found someone else to dick her down. Also sounds kind of like a shit test since she just made plans with you but probably thinks you might be a pussy since you keep ignoring all her signals that she wants to get dicked down.
Not bad, maybe this:
"Me:
The on-off thing?Ireallyenjoyed the time aswelland I would love to see you in the future.There were hardly any meetings where I found someone so likeable from the get-go.If you change your mind, give me a calland maybe I'm still interested in seeing you:)You passed the shit test. She will want to get dicked down again in the future. She wants you to try again.
Nope.
Don't be a bitch. You were doing pretty well up until I read this.
You can still text her and invite her out sometime in the near future (maybe wait a few weeks) without disrespecting yourself by texting her to "check up on her" like a little pussboy would.
You need to remove the veil and see the little bitch that didn't dick her down like she wanted him to.
Be a man who is bold and in touch with his sexuality and understands women better than you currently seem to.
Edit: formatting
ZachMeadows 5y ago
At least your username checks out.
Simple analysis and to the point.
I'll make sure to apply that to my next dates.
red_philosopher 5y ago
He's blue still, needs emergency Sidebar now.
Self-honest 5y ago
He does. I hate that he hasn't responded yet. I hope he's busy doing his reading.
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Abeham10 5y ago
OP, think he’s concluding you should have dicked her down, but idk tho.
Self-honest 5y ago
It's a shame he didn't conclude that as well.
MrCongeniality1 5y ago
This is what makes me love this sub.
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Robster25 5y ago
I appreciate your advice and I know that every girl likes dick. I find it funny to read all the comments, cause from what I read every girl that the commentators meet fucks them on the first date. My experience is, that this happens on the second or third date most of the time, but well... We parted, because she said that she got lots of stuff going on tomorrow and it was late and so did I, so I said "I'll walk you home" and then I did.
Believe me, I'm in touch with my sexuality, otherwise I wouldn't have kissed her, but I won't force myself on a girl. If she would've invited me in when I walked her home and I would've refused, I would understand your point, but you can't fuck every girl on the first date.
MrCongeniality1 5y ago
So you kiss her, but the rest of the escalation is up to her?
You didn't suggest that you go up to fuck her brains out.
You didn't give a plausible excuse for going up - You probably should have checked her apartment for intruders, be a gentleman, bro.
You didn't pull her into a dark corner on your walk home to make out and suggest that you might just fuck her right then and there.
After kissing her you didn't hold her face firmly and just stare at her like she's a piece of meat you could rip into at any moment and then moved on like nothing happened.
I don't know what the problem is. You sound like a really nice guy.
Self-honest 5y ago
You have a good base of understanding but my point is that girls communicate covertly. She was inviting you, repeatedly. She's not going to come out and say it. If a girl is attracted to you she expects to be fucked right away. You're the man. Sex is your job. She just gives the signals.
When you don't, she finds someone who will. If she sticks around, she wants something else from you.
whatsthisgarg 5y ago
LOL great stuff.
Analysis is probably very accurate. This is a woman who wants to fuck. OP makes her sound like a very sweet and nice girl and I'd say it's likely it could go one of two ways in bed:
either she's eager to please but doesn't know quite what to do, in which case, easily led and you could make her do ANYTHING, even the raunchiest shit, or
I'm thinking of real examples from my own life: I've lived both scenarios.
Just thought of another: she wants drama, not necessarily "let's you and him fight" but maybe just the "star-crossed lovers who can't be together" because of the other guy. Lived that one, too. Diane, I'm still waiting for you LOL.
Self-honest 5y ago
Hahaha jesus. That one was such a mind fuck to my younger self.
This one seems most likely to me.
Alpha male ex fucks her and other girls until she demands exclusivity, then hands her her walking papers. She hopes he will one day take her back, but hits the carousel looking for some dick to try to make him jealous because "I can fuck other people too."
Most guys suck. Even if she finds someone to make sweet love to, it's just not the same as the night in the unlocked stranger's van on the side of the street with her ex. Lol. She reaches out to the ex, gets some of the good stuff and the cycle repeats.
She's not fully alpha widowed yet because she still has hope things will work out, but she will only be truly interested in someone who she perceives as his equal or greater.
She took OP on the walk hoping he would slam her against the wall in a parking garage. Last chance casual house soft core love making would have still been a spiteful win in her book.
She got none so she ran back to her alpha ex in horror "what have I done??? I don't want to live without this excitement!"
At this point I think she was just trying to sling shot OP into orbit now that I think about it. Good on him for trusting his gut and recognizing this so he can avoid it. He on the right path anyway. Experience is always the best teacher.
whatsthisgarg 5y ago
That also happened to me, except I actually DID escalate and fuck her good and hard in the stairwell, and yes, to the OP, it was on the first night. But then I goofed by soft-pedaling after that, dialing back the aggression and getting too nice. Maybe we shouldn't see each other anymore.
I thought that was the end, moved on, did not forget about her. Ran into her a few months later. Banged again. And again. And again. A year later, back in town last minute hook up, banged again.
She yo-yo'ed between the first dude and me (and probably many others). That's what she wanted, that's what she got. You can be part of the fun, or not.
Like you said, OP has good instincts, but he doesn't seem to be listening to the good advice here. Dude, we've lived it.
One of my most favorite memories. I still see this chick every once in a while. We share a conspiratorial silent laugh every time. I think of Rollo's Saving Her Best because I know her husband has never experienced the level of freak she could put on.
standardmissile 5y ago
Great response. OP had multiple chances to dick her down and didn't take them, so she told him via the "I'm back with my ex" shit test to raise his game.
> Be a man who is bold and in touch with his sexuality and understands women better than you currently seem to.
Yep. OP-she'd still fuck you but you need to go in more confident, uncompromising and escalate. Girls don't like putting themselves out there and the man missing the signals.
This proves that women prefer a man who dumps them to a man who can't escalate.
At least OP didn't act butthurt, he got that right.
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Robster25 5y ago
Hm...Most guys I know would've waited for the kiss until the date ended, instead of going in after half an hour. You don't know me and I don't blame you, but I'm pretty confident. Moreover I dated lots of girls and know the signs when a girl is down to fuck and she wasn't (yet).
Tell me about the "multiple chances", please. Lol. You meet a girl for the first time, you pull her in and kiss her. It gets late and she brings up, that she has lots of stuff to do and you walk her home. You kiss her again and she tells you, that she would love to see you again and text you the next day and you arrange the next date. Where are the multiple chances?
izzyinjurious 5y ago
Nope, you pussied out. Should've been a same night lay. You didn't use enough kino, you didn't escalate and you pussied out. Most guys you know aren't on the red pill, they aren't confident and man enough to take control. She threw herself at you 4 times. Those two replies above clearly explain what you missed.
​
No excuses.
Self-honest 5y ago
Exactly. It's obvious, like a slap in the face.
Self-honest 5y ago
You weren't leading. You have a good amount left to learn man. All of this stuff is so obvious to everybody else. Don't ignore us because it hurts. Be honest with yourself.
So they've been on and off multiple times, but talking to her ex one time after she made plans with you (the guy she's supposedly into) and all of the sudden she thinks she still has feelings for her ex (and no longer is attracted to you instantly)?? You believe she didn't already know that?
Robster25 5y ago
She is obviously unsure of herself and her feelings. And of course I have a lot to learn. I probably made a few mistakes which I have to reflect about, but fact is, that women are emotional beings. If she has a stronger emotional connection with her ex due to the fact that she spend about one and a half years with him, compared to one evening with me, she will choose her ex most of the time.
Self-honest 5y ago
You are still in her frame right now. Your mental point of origin needs to be yourself. Why do you keep speculating about her emotions? You don't know, you're just making things up that fit into your narrative instead of listening and thinking critically.
She was always going to contact her ex and play both sides. That's what you're missing. She wasn't looking for a boyfriend in you. You put off the boyfriend vibe, which is weird in general when you've just met a girl.
The guy she wants (her ex) doesn't give a fuck about her emotions. You have to give less of a fuck than him. You should be looking to have a little fun, not looking for a soulmate.
Only if you suck. If you're the shit, she will forget about her ex in two seconds and stuff your dick down her throat. I've experienced it too many times and made the same mistakes you made too many times to not know what's going on here.
Do what you want man. You should be more open to other ideas though, or you're wasting your time here.
Robster25 5y ago
Thanks for your honesty, man. I'm trying to constantly improve myself and being more open minded is one aspect of it :)
classicverdant 5y ago
Being a 'gentleman' in this case, by admitting you would 'love to see her in the future' and walking away, was the wrong move. Then again, you shouldn't be that creep who is texting her every other day to hang out. Stay nonchalant with the occasional innuendos, hit her up when you are in the mood, and if you play it right, she will definitely want to get dicked down.
standardmissile 5y ago
I was on a date the other night and went to the bar to get a round. When I came back she was on her phone, texting, checking apps, doing her social media. She didn't have a specific reason e.g. Sorry, i left the toaster on and need to tell my housemate to turn it off. So I waited for about 3 minutes then got up to take a piss.
When I got back she was still on her phone. I told her,
hey it was nice to meet you, I'm going now-have a good night.
And left.
She wasn't a bad person. But if someone isn't interested in you, do yourself a favour, and leave.
Frich3 5y ago
sounds like the right thing to do my man.. care to expand a bit more on the story? thats some chad like shit
daymi 5y ago
> chad like shit.
Whatever. It's just saving himself time.
If the date doesn't go your way, LEAVE. I've left girls I picked up from their home after they were doing inappropriate things at the bar we were at (shittalking me, not taking my commands, talking to other men who obviously want her). I pointed it out to her (I really shouldn't). No change in behavior. I left.
Nowadays I mastered "the disapproving look". She looks at her phone while we on at a date? Disapproving look. She lowers it. Five minutes later she looks at her phone again? Disapproving look. They never do it again without asking for my permission.
Time is precious, waste it well.
S-Blaze 5y ago
"the disapproving look"
Less is more. Girls aren't stupid they know when they're misbehaving. Saying less actually shows that you're pretty darn smart.
Frich3 5y ago
No need for the “whatever” comment. Maybe since I just woke up I might be taking it wrong. But other than that I think everything else you said was spot on.
daymi 5y ago
The focus on mythical chad here was getting to me. It's a useful ideal to have in the beginning, but I meant that the motivation is that there are millions of women for you to try and you have to vet each as quickly as possible, otherwise you don't get to the others in your lifetime. If they take themselves out of the game, I ought to thank them: They've done me a great service - they've stopped me from wasting my free time.
ArdAtak 5y ago
Never act butthurt. Even if it hurts or frustrates you, act like you're taking it all in stride. A simple. "Sounds good. Best wishes. Stay in touch" would suffice.
SimilarHamster 5y ago
Or if you want to get edgy "aight"
Dark_Lord_A 5y ago
No. Never, ever do this. It makes you look like a desperate, needy beta in her eyes. The guys here have the best advice for this situation: make a joke about it, then ghost her. If she hits you up in the future, bang her and then next her. Never put yourself in her frame; never lose control of your emotions in front of her.
silan11224 5y ago
OP let me show you a comment that YOU posted 15 days ago to a similar thread
Half of the advice you gave him applies perfectly too you aswell!
Robster25 5y ago
Thank you for taking the time and trying to help me! The difference between his case and mine is, that he went on multiple dates and didn't fuck her, because he was worried that he moves too fast. I just had one "date" with this girl.
silan11224 5y ago
I understand that the situation was not identical but the similarities are there.
She let you know she was "casually" seeing her ex which basically means that she is in a non-committed relationship while going on dates with other men. That was a signal that she was trying to get fucked.
You are too caught up in the idea that you should fuck on the _____ Date when in reality you should fuck when the opportunity presents itself. By her letting you KNOW she is down with casual sex and her asking you to walk her home she clearly left the door open for you to dick her down.
On a sex probability scale of 1-10 I would say you would be in the higher half, she was definitely into you. If you had pushed a little bit further you can have pin point exactly where you were on the scale and pulled the trigger.
Next time use plausible deniability to escalate further and ask to come in for some coffee/juice or to see the art collection she was just talking about on the date. If she does not reciprocate that well once you are inside, then hey you were just here for some "water/juice" and you bounce.
Robster25 5y ago
Maybe I didn't make myself clear. She said, that she had an on-off relationship (in the past), so I thought she was over him. But the fact alone that she mentioned it to me, should've been a sign, that she might be still involved. I fucked women on the first date, but they all gave more signs than her (I actually didn't even see a hint that I could fuck her that evening). But as you said, I should dare more and try to escalate further the next time.
CainPrice 5y ago
Women who go on a "date" with you and tell you that they're kinda sorta still seeing an ex, or kinda sorta seeing someone are signaling to you that they want to have casual sex with you. She's telling you, "Here I am, on a 'date' with you when I'm kinda sorta involved with someone else" so you know that she's looking to keep it casual.
Instead of picking up on her signal, showing her that you know the game and understood what was going on, you tried to be her new boyfriend.
Right now, she's not 100% sure whether you're a timid loser who dosen't get it, or whether she failed to win you over, so she's willing to give you another shot. Maybe. Hard to tell from her texts. Maybe you've already blown it.
If you're all weird and butt-hurt about the fact that she doesn't want to be your girlfriend and let that show, you'll blow your chance for sure. If you haven't already.
Be cool. Act like the kind of guy who fucks and understands the casual game instead of a needy romantic who wants a girlfriend.
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Frich3 5y ago
if it were me I just wouldnt have responded. but that's just me. if she wanted to hit me up in the future she would.. but responding some paragraph about this, that, the other... pretty pointless. if you still wanted to respond however, i wouldve just said "if you change your mind let me know" or "no worries"
Robster25 5y ago
You're right. My response should've been shorter.
HurricaneHugues 5y ago
Too much texting in between meetups, and not enough escalation in person.
When she texted u that bullshit about her ex, you should've just hit her with a "cool". Less words, more meaning. You don't really care, her absence is inconsequential, you have other women, she doesn't mean much to you. All of those, simple from the word "cool"
Robster25 5y ago
I disagree. Even though there are a lot of wannabe alphas around here, if you text her this, you would come of as a complete asshole who doesn't care about her. You can be kind to her, even if she doesn't want to date you anymore.
HurricaneHugues 5y ago
The thing is you're not supposed to care. Shes just ONE grain of sand on the beach. Shes not special. If she cant provide what you're looking for, she's not important. Youre not supposed to care what she thinks. Its irrelevant. Either way she isnt fucking you. The less you care the more powerful you are. Writing all those words shows you care way too much. A simple "cool" and you move on. Let her hamster spin in your favor. Let her deal with her own thoughts. You're not responsible for people's emotions.
You're still plugged in.
Robster25 5y ago
Yeah, I guess I am. As someone mentioned above, I haven't been my mental point of origin.
poshmarkedbudu 5y ago
That's because you still care dude. I've been in your position and fucked it up more times than I can count mate. This is why it's recommended to spin plates. And I don't mean plates that don't interest you. Plates are women that get you hard quickly and you're attracted to. You're too invested in her frame and not yours.
Who cares how you come off to her? Maybe not even responding at all would be fine. Telling her "cool" isn't being an asshole at all if that's how you actually feel. It really doesn't even matter what you say as long as you don't give her too much and bow out.
You are far too concerned about her and her feelings. I'm not even some master Alpha at all or anything but you're running in circles here with this shit, and even I can see it.
Robster25 5y ago
I get your point, that it shouldn't matter what she thinks, but I enjoyed the time we spend and some good conversation we had. You are absolutely right, that I can say what I want, but if you enjoyed the time I think it's okay to tell her and be honest, about what you think.
HurricaneHugues 5y ago
Jesus fucking christ man. Are u here for advice and to learn or are you here to teach? Just the other day you were blue piller and now all of a sudden you believe you're qualified to give advice. LISTEN! It doesn't matter what you're true feelings are. Don't reveal your hand. Be mysterious, dont reveal your true feelings. Its really irrelevant whether or not u enjoyed your time with her. That won't affect her decision to go back to her ex. It really does NOT matter. Keep that information to yourself, don't reveal your hand. Just be nonchalant about it. Don't give her the validation. Just say "ok cool" and keep shit pushing. Keep your feelings to yourself. Women don't want them. Being too upfront and honest is not what they want. They want mystery and ambiguity.
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leolanik14 5y ago
You lost your frame somewhere.
justtenofusinhere 5y ago
You are over investing in a single girl.
Where are the other girls you're sleeping with or pursuing?
Robster25 5y ago
Right now I got two plates to release some pressure from time to time. But to be honest I'm more of a relationship type of guy: I prefer one girl who is on the same page with me, instead of five side-hoes who I only get to fuck and the two plates don't meet my standards for an LTR. The girl I met was smart and good looking (in my opinion) and shared the same interests as me, so I saw potential and wanted to get to know her better.
red_philosopher 5y ago
Read the sidebar again. Especially the part about preferences in women being an excuse to justify not approaching. You aren't "more of a relationship type of guy," you want the magical unicorn born of blue-pilled thinking.
What? Absolutely not. I've yet to meet a woman who was ever on the "same page" as me. Why? Because AWALT. I met a woman who I FWB'd because we got along so well, and I was thinking that she might make really good LTR material. I'll even say that I loved her (gonna catch hell for that). However, she has "play time" (codeword for sexual encounters) with one of her male besties, but she insists that they never have intercourse (uh huh, do I look retarded?). Around the same time, she asked if I was okay with her "trying a relationship" with her good female friend.
Guess who got checked off as LTR material? Exactly.
Point is, no matter how much you "click," AWALT will be there to fuck it up for you.
Nothing is stopping you from developing it past "fucking only". FWB is acceptable. I have two FWBs, and I enjoy my time with them beyond fucking. If they fuck up, I'll be disappointed, sure, but I have more plates to breed and see if they are worth being around.
Bad news bears brings you this cutting new bulletin:
About 0.1% are truly LTR quality these days. Stop searching for your unicorn
Sounds like potential FWB material personally.
You put on your blue pill glasses and "saw" a unicorn, got excited, and threw all your red-pill work out the window. What the fuck were you thinking when she said she was seeing her ex still? Still saw potential? Gross, she's a slut who likes dick just like everyone else, and you conveniently overlooked it so you could have a snowball's chance in hell of fulfilling your blue-pilled fanatsies.
Sidebar. Mandatory rehabilitation now.
superyute 5y ago
i appreciate your work on here sir
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