Hypergamy is a commonly discussed, yet often misunderstood concept. Women are conditioned to seek their peer value mates during young age (16-30) and then are unable to unlearn that conditioning later on. While in her prime, she is at the very peak of the sexual hierarchy for the simple fact that most other women on the planet are either to young or old to compete against her. Men of all age on the other hand desire women in their prime years, thus creating a demand side that is bigger than the supply side. The female supply side therefore gains negotiating power for the brief window in time where she is part of the prime year fertile minority.
I took the liberty coloring the 2017 census sheet of the US trying to illustrate what I mean.
Compare this sheet to how hypergamy is commonly pictured. This way of looking at it ignores the fact that the female side is significantly smaller than the male side.
Taking only the yellow and green sections into account gives us about 100m men competing for 45m women. By default the women already outperform the men. For those around TRP getting mad about hypergamy: why should she settle for some no good chump if she already has the market leverage to select for the better half of men? Now subtract all women from this equation that men are usually not attracted to and the advantage gets higher and higher.
Selecting the top percentage of men is only natural if you are part of the top percentage of women.
tl;dr: Hypergamy is not a malicious concept but a natural reaction the SMP ratios of available desirable mates of both genders.
grumpieroldman 6y ago
That's not what hypergamy is.
Hypergamy is her actually having children from multiple fathers.
Hypergamy is you fucking bar flies and running risks of becoming one of those fathers.
Hypergamy is you dating a single-mother thinking you'll get laid not thinking she's recklessly irresponsible and I shouldn't fuck her with a 10' pole.
Society of antiquity was hypergamy for the masses and patriarchy/matriarchy for the ruling class.
antariusz 6y ago
Minor nitpick: the bars for men at all ages should be orange. All men are only situationally attractive, ever, for either resources or genetic potential.
RoxgorTheDestroyer 6y ago
The reality of the Pareto Principle.
vfb14 6y ago
You should have already heard or read about the term Alpha fucks Beta bucks (AF/BB).
This term is used to describe the strategy that female humans use to ensure the acquisition of the best genetic material they can possibly get, while securing resources that would assure their offspring survival and their own.
How do men play a part in this scenario?
Throughout history, Men have played the role of leaders. Since the Pleistocene epoch to current day, competent and smart males have been the ones that have helped shape civilization as it is currently known. Ever since our earliest ancestors, female humans have been dependent of human males. Back then only the strongest, smartest and most skilled hunters were the ones who survived and thrived in such harsh conditions . Since females lack the physical strength that characterizes males, they quickly learnt that in order to ensure their survival and produce strong offspring who would have better odds at surviving, they needed to mate with only the fittest of the fittest men ( alpha males who happened to be the best providers of resources and DNA), giving no chance to lower value weaker men (beta males). By doing this they were able to secure resources (food/shelter and the protection of the tribe) and ensured that the next generation would have the best genetics. Alphas were the only ones that reproduced while betas helped females raise the offspring. Since then, women have played the role of nature because ultimately they are the ones who choose what males are worthy of reproduction and which aren’t.
Civilization changed things.
It all started about 10,000 years ago when people decided to change from a nomadic lifestyle (hunter-gatherers) to producers of food, hence agriculture. As civilization progressed over time, things began to become easier for everyone. It was no longer necessary to be in top physical condition in order to survive. Civilization gave a more equal opportunity to men (alpha/beta) of survival. Since hard work was necessary for the rise of civilization, men conformed the majority of labor in every field of work. Throughout history men have been the builders of towns and cities, the engineers, stonemasons, bricklayers, lumberjacks and the operators of heavy machinery. Given the conditions, women were still completely dependent on men for their survival through monogamy, which is a marriage system. This system gave a more equal opportunity to lower genetic value males of reproducing if they proved to be good providers. This didn’t put a stop to female’s hypergamy. Even after the creation of monogamy, women still engaged in extra pair copulation with genetic alphas. The current statistics of extra pair copulation range from 9 to over 30 percent, that is almost 1 in 3. Given the lack of the necessary technology in the past to make this determinations, it can be assumed that the numbers were higher.
Full blown hypergamy.
With the 19th and early 20th century came the first wave of feminism. First wave feminists were fighting for women’s right to vote, which was passed by congress on June 4, 1919 and ratified in August 18, 1920. This movement marked the beginning of what was supposed to be equalization of men and women. With the feminist movement of the 1960s women began to enter the workforce in great numbers, thus they began to gain independence and self reliance. Since then, feminism has had a huge influence on society, from fifty percent of marriages ending in divorce in which eighty percent of them are started by women, court systems that favor women in custody cases, to the extreme of men not being able to ask for a paternity test in France (including through laboratories in other countries, and is punishable by up to a year in prison and a €15,000 fine). Current society has created the perfect environment for female’s hypergamy by not only enabling, but encouraging their dual mating strategy. The regular western woman spends her late teens and early twenties ridding the cock carousel (one night stands and/or short term relationships with alpha males) which sometimes end up in pregnancies thus the rise of single motherhood, and her late twenties and early thirties looking for beta males to settle down with in marriage(which we know the odds) because of them not being able to compete with younger more fertile women for the attention of alpha males. Given that women conform a majority in universities and certain fields of work, they can easily become self sufficient. This gives them the opportunity of being able to set the highest standards in the looks, money and status of the men they can be capable to get with, leaving the majority of average or below average men( which conform eighty percent of all men) with no chances of being able to compete thus becoming invisible in the vast majority of women’s eyes.
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Ironic_Gangster 6y ago
Thank you for pointing out that hypergamy is not malicious. If hypergamy is evil, than me liking big tits, a fat ass, a pretty face and a small waist is bad. I'm not bad for liking what I like. Women are not bad for the same reason.
H0tTamal3 6y ago
So much misunderstanding in this thread. It's flooded with posts from incels and most of the EC posts are buried at the bottom. I hope I can learn what I need to from this place before it gets overrun by know it all 19 year olds.
man0man 6y ago
At this point the only part that gets me is how oblivious every single girl acts about this yet they operate every day in perfect lock-step with no deviations that aren't corrected. For a social dynamic it's remarkably unspoken.
HelloTims 6y ago
Almost everyone is oblivious to their true motives. Most guys I think don't realize it works like this either. And in basically any given field it works like this too. I'll give an example: education. Everyone ostensibly agrees the point of schooling is to gain knowledge. Except, so much of the knowledge taught in school(from about grade 9 through undergrad) is both useless and available for free in libraries and on the internet. So why do we as a society(and employers operating in cut throat free market capitalism) place so much value on degrees? Because degrees prove that you're able to fit in society and not do anything bad enough to get expelled, and that you can work on whatever menial tasks someone assigns you. But that's unsavoury, people don't want to admit that school isn't really making them wiser, that they're not in school to become wiser, employers don't want to admit they're not looking for wise people, schools don't want to admit they're not making people wiser. So the myth perpetuates.
Robin Hanson's book The Elephant in the Room is a great read about how people lie to themselves unconsciously in order to better lie to other people.
ZephyrBluu 6y ago
/u/GayLubeOil's chart about IQ he likes to post pretty much describes what you're talking about and I find it fascinating.
HelloTims 6y ago
Do you have a link to that chart? I've never seen it before.
ZephyrBluu 6y ago
Here's the most recent one I've seen him use: http://i.imgur.com/vWgESi6.gif
Imperator_Red 6y ago
It's like the invisible hand of capitalism. Some complex systems can operate without centralized control.
AbusiveFather1 6y ago
Because it's their bread and butter
If a thief admitted to some random person that he steals for a living, that'd raise the chances that the thief will get caught or his victims will become more wary - the thief knows this and doesn't want that to happen
Morphs_ 6y ago
No, really women ARE that oblivious. Remember that men want to UNDERSTAND things, women only want to FEEL things. That's why most renowned scientists have been men. We men now understand hypergamy, but women will only feel it as a bunch of impulses. And it will probably stay that way.
lala_xyyz 6y ago
Yes, it's evolutionarily beneficial for them to be ignorant. Women that were"self-aware" and not solipsistic branch-swinging hypergamous hoes were swiftly eliminated from the gene pool, because that strategy is ultimately fertility negative. Modern feminism is just another evolutionary filter, cultural "shit test" for women by species - those unable to pursue their biological imperatives won't have children, or will have them few but without a father, living in poverty or on welfare etc. Female intelligence overall negatively correlates with their marital happiness and reproductive success.
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justtenofusinhere 6y ago
Women chase resources and men chase youth. Neither wants to compromise.
SilverGryphon 6y ago
Poolboy Chad will always have one up on sugardaddy. He may be broke, buy hey he's got the superior genes that woman crave.
Betanorman 6y ago
Only the rational part of the woman's brains chase resources, their libidos seek men who are sociosexually competent, these men's finances or careers are irrelevant.
Stop tricking yourself, being rich will make women want to use you, not be attracted to you.
dulkemaru51 6y ago
Although they evolved to chase sociosexually competent men because those men tended to have the best potential for acquiring resources. The dgaf alpha badass is emotionally strong and mentally focused, thus an effective hunter and warrior. Women always chase resources in one way or another. The more alpha, the more they want to fuck you, AND the more they would like to have your commitment. They always want the commitment. The harder it is to get, the more it is worth (i.e. the more they want it), because the more indifferent you are, the more effective and cold a provider you would be... and the more hawut they perceive you to be. That's their end-goal, always -- commitment. The manifestation of that drive is of course, in the real world, AF and BB, that's just what happens, because a basic bitch HB6 with nothing interesting to say, would never score a Christian Grey in real life.
Godskook 6y ago
Both halves of a woman's sexual strategy are rational in origin. The irrationality is failing to recognize that splitting the halves into the AF/BB pattern is predatory on her part, mostly in that she expects men to not construct counter-strategies to AF/BB.
AbusiveFather1 6y ago
I don't know about that I think the wallet is more important to women than your body Maybe that's just me tricking myself, but at my uni I see girls go for the worse-looking but wealthier guys than good-looking but regular or poorer guys.
Zahlix 6y ago
She marries the billionaire for greed and fucks the poolboy for lust. Pick which kind of relationship you want to have with her. This is not about being rich or poor but about your behavior towards her. The poolboy gets to be with her because she wants to and the billionaire gets to be with her because he pays her.
AbusiveFather1 6y ago
Another question then (I'm new to this) At what age do girls start to get really active? Because it seems to me at age 19-20 the majority of them are into LTRs and dreaming of prince charming always
Also the majority of girls on my faculty are 3's-4's, while girls on the other faculty for example are 7's-8's (I shit you not, I hang out there a lot), could this play a factor?
lukkassu 6y ago
In this day and age? 13-16.
Just because they're pursuing ltrs and dreaming of prince charming doesn't mean they aren't riding a new pony on the carousel every week and repeating old favorites when they can.
TheIslander829 6y ago
Broke ass 31-year-old photographer here with my 2 cents:
9s and 10s don't give a fuck that I'm broke.
deadsandsushi2 6y ago
Imagine being proud of being broke at 31. Pathetic.
HelloTims 6y ago
He didn't say he was proud.
TheIslander829 6y ago
I quit law to become an artist.
I'd rather die being broke than have to go back to working in a goddamn office from 9-5.
But to me, being broke is not having more than 20k in savings, so... I don't know what kind of "broke" you think I'm talking about.
I'm comparing my finances now with my finances when I was a lawyer. I can pay all my bills, but I can't afford 90% of the luxuries I used to.
reluctantly_red 6y ago
Don't need to be that extreme. Being a gofer bitch for corporate American sucks big time. Being a small town public defender is actually a lot of fun.
TheIslander829 6y ago
That's what I was.
I don't know... I just wanted to get away from doing paperwork.
As soon as photography was able to cover my minimum expenses, I left the law firm.
If I hadn't left I would've probably ended up throwing myself off the building.
reluctantly_red 6y ago
You'd be very surprised how little paperwork there is in criminal defense.
Korrangar 6y ago
Photography seems to be a chick magnet, but quite an expensive hobby
TheIslander829 6y ago
It is, if it's a hobby.
If it's your job, it pays the bills, and it's the opposite of expensive.
truecrisis 6y ago
lol. You seem to also be a comedian ;)
TheIslander829 6y ago
I think we have different definitions of broke.
To me being broke is not having more than 20k in savings.
PMmepicsofyourtits 6y ago
Yeah, you’re not broke. You’re doing better than the majority of people.
derektwerd 6y ago
Being broke usually means having 0 in savings and living pay check to pay check. Or even worse also having mountains of debt.
Haven't you seen the statistics about USA and having no savings 34% have no saving and 19% have less than $1000.
TheIslander829 6y ago
Holy shit, well... yeah no... I'm not broke if we're using that metric.
That's insane.
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ideserveall 6y ago
Im just surpised there is green above 20-24 for girls. Should be red instantly.
Zahlix 6y ago
That is just dumb and you know it. Just for fun I looked up the VS Angels and there are literally only 3 on that list who are younger than 25. The average is around 28.
_quote 6y ago
Get your head out of your ass, girls can slay it until they are 40 for the most part. Even after that, there's going to be rich old guys who want nothing more than a slim built 50 year old with all her teeth.
SuperCrazy07 6y ago
Girls can slay even older than 40. I know plenty of girls in their 40s that can act like a complete whore and get laid. Even get a boyfriend.
Their problem isn’t that they can’t get someone, it’s they can’t get someone they desire.
OhhDatDogOMine 6y ago
Why did this trigger people? For most of human history 25+ women were leftovers.
NAparentheses 6y ago
Because everyone aged super poorly back then.
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MattyAnon Admin 6y ago
It is not as simple as supply and demand. Men and women are different and have different preferences.
Concrete example: men prefer quantity and variety, women want only the one very best man.
grumpieroldman 6y ago
Why is she fucking 10 guys, 100 guys, if that's true?
MattyAnon Admin 6y ago
Most women are not fucking 10 guys at once.
Usually it's Chad and a beta or three she's stringing along.
omega_dawg93 6y ago
hypergamy isn't malicious... it's just natural.
you can't get mad at women for what's programmed into their DNA. iiwii.
but aren't you happy you know about all of this now?
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omega_dawg93 6y ago
yes and no... right back at ya. lol.
hypergamy is in their nature. they're always looking for the better deal and will until they die.
i have aunts in their 60s who ran off their husbands or cheated on them... and are STILL waiting for their prince charming to show up; the fairy tale is perpetual.
the behavior is instinctual. how they regulate and apply it can be "asshole" behavior. but that's where you as the man need to draw your boundaries and apply them ruthlessly.
eg... we're on a date = the phone is away. period. if she can't deal with that, then pay for the appetizer and leave. the end. i simply do not tolerate women with phones glued to their hands.
Zahlix 6y ago
It isn't programmed into their DNA, it is the circumstances of the market. If you had 10 times more prime age women than desirable men the tables would be turned with women competing for male attention because those few men would be busy only sleeping with the best looking women. It isn't DNA, it is basic economics.
Sure there is a biological component to it but in general it all boils down to supply and demand.
SKRedPill 6y ago
SMV is the currency of that market.
omega_dawg93 6y ago
so you disagree with rollo... who stated that there is not only a mental aspect to hypergamy but also a biological (menstrual cycle) aspect as well?
it's programmed or "AWALT" is bogus.
Zahlix 6y ago
Rollo is spot on when it comes to AF/BB and the menstrual cycle. But his observation isn't part of biology, biology is part of the market. A women can only have the genetic material of one person at one time so it obviously should be the best possible available. On the other hand she can have the resources of many men to provide for the offspring.
The angler fish is one of the few species where a female can use the genetic material of multiple males at the same time - so she does. Biology is the bottle neck of nature because nature wants every advantage possible to achieve better results that are better able to survive and pass on genetic material. If women could fuck 10 guys and then mix and match the DNA to form one META human out of it, they would because it would ensure higher chances of survival.
omega_dawg93 6y ago
a woman can have multiple sperm donors at one time... letting them fight it out in a mad race to get to get eggs.
i think the book is called, "sperm wars," and women potentially having multiple partners is the reason men evolved to have different types of sperm cells... and the reason dick heads are shaped like they are-to 'scoop' out competing semen.
... then there's the whole microchimerism (?) debate.
livear 6y ago
Exactly. See how the roles reverse right after every war with men in short supply.
omega_dawg93 6y ago
not exactly. you need to read rollo's essay "war brides."
women will do whatever the fuck is necessary to secure provisioning & protection... to the point where they will openly share men.
there's a guy from my hometown that had over 60 kids (in the tri county area) in the Vietnam yrs. the men were gone or dead and the women just shared men like him and others and did what was necessary to move on.
there were others just like this guy. there was no demand for husbands... just babies and a lil money for food.
supply & demand... possibly. herd mentality and fucking the only guys around was the m.o.
IFuckingHateAllergy 6y ago
Different times. Women now are more independent than ever so it won't happen the way it did back then. It still boils down to supply and demand.
buntownik 6y ago
u just have to kill a certain percentage of the male population.
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VisiblePlan 6y ago
Exactly. Why would you get mad about biology? It's just the way they are.
magx01 6y ago
The murder of children has a biological basis as well (wiping out competing genetics in say a step parent type situation). You could also argue that the getting mad has a biological basis itself.
mori_forthestreamer 6y ago
That's easy to say when you're on the getting laid side of the chart. Incel anger is understandable and justified despite the rest of the world telling them to get over it.
Morphs_ 6y ago
As a man you can increase your SMV and you should, especially if you're incel.
ex_addict_bro 6y ago
My recent discovery is that being mad actually is a funny reaction to ones own powerlessness
GLADmyNAMEaintDICK 6y ago
The thing is, you need self-awareness for it to be funny.
CaptainBW 6y ago
You put it into words perfectly. Same exact thing with me as recently as a few hours ago - found myself getting annoyed with something out of my control and then realized how purely emotional and just..dumb it is to react like that.
womans_algorithm 6y ago
Not the only possible reason though. False expectations is bigger reason.
ex_addict_bro 6y ago
For me those are included as a part of powerless
womans_algorithm 6y ago
How is expecting different outcome a sign of powerlessness? People make mistakes, doesn't mean they are powerless.
ZombiNawhal 6y ago
Something my psyche teacher was saying is that anger can always be rooted to fear. Fear that you're wrong, fear of humiliation, fear of something...
Powerlessness can be scary so maybe there's something there?
​
ex_addict_bro 6y ago
You expect something means you’re a victim.
Create instead.
womans_algorithm 6y ago
I repeat my question, how does expecting something show a sign of powerlessness?
ex_addict_bro 6y ago
Expecting by itself isn’t.
Getting angry because your expectations didn’t work out is.
womans_algorithm 6y ago
I see, getting angry is a key part here.
Falcario 6y ago
Yeah, very poorly articulated on his part... False expectations of women leaves you powerless in the sexual market place. You would just be delusional about women and feel like a victim for not getting any ass. Create value (be valuable) at work, socially, and/or look valuable to be attractive
ex_addict_bro 6y ago
Better things to do with my time
womans_algorithm 6y ago
Good thing you have time to make vague statements that have no real value without the explanation.
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KV-n 6y ago
Great illustration. A 20-something female is automatically top 20% smv just because of her age.
This comes to mind every time i see a 20-something man lamenting how supposedly unfair it is he cant get his looksmatch. No dude, she can be your looksmatch but that doesnt necessarily mean smv match.
politeAndLevelHed 6y ago
This is why a guy who hits his 30s (30-36) should never feel guilty about suddenly attracting interest from girls in their mid-20s. That's a man's peak age for attracting women - ladies view the guy as more experienced, mature, while still being young enough to be physically appealing.
Go on any Internet dating site - it is a flood of desperate under-30s men, and over-30s women.
It's just basic statistics.
grumpieroldman 6y ago
If you're an alpha this happens at 22 ~ 24.
If it happens at 32 ~ 34 that means you're a beta (at best).
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TheGhandster 6y ago
Yes, unless she's fat/deformed.
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SpiritStatic 6y ago
Your analogy is funny because it's so accurate — our attraction to women is pretty mono-dimensional in comparison to theirs.
It starts (and maybe ends) with appearances, so simps can get confused when women aren't playing the market based on the same figures.
"Why him? He's so ugly!"
They haven't come to realize that women evaluate men similar to how a prestigious college screens its applicants.
SKRedPill 6y ago
Actually women's attraction also depends on a need for commitment far more than it does for men. That's why the older men up to 60 are still sought after (green category).
The problem for men is two fold - one, it takes a lot of cultivation to build up male SMV, a lot of physical and mental muscle and skill needs to be created. The second and most important, is that stupid BP conditioning ensures that they never get to realize this fact, until lightning hits.
But there's one more thing in that graph. It matches the SMV curve to a T!
p3n1x 6y ago
Have to be careful about "need" in the West. "Bitches be lazy".
SpiritStatic 6y ago
Good point on that too. Commitment from a man is way more invaluable to women than the opposite. There are some advantages for commitment from women, but it isn't something that men rearrange their lives for and have a clock ticking on.
"Until lightning hits."
Oh yes — but I suppose there are some who may go their whole lives without ever making sense of the thunderstorm.
PonderingPattaya 6y ago
How are you arriving at the conclusion commitment from a woman isn't valuable. That's patently absurd. It's more important from an evolutionary perspective. If a woman isn't loyal you may end up raising someone else's kid. WTF.
PMmepicsofyourtits 6y ago
It’s much easier for a man to get commitment from a woman than vice versa.
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Auvergnat 6y ago
Hypergamy is not social conditioning. If I, or any other man, had grown up in an environment where the sex ratio is skewed to your advantage, I would build a harem and not seek only the top woman. That's because men's innate sexual strategy is polygamy.
Women's innate sexual strategy is to seek the one best man they can get. That's how hypergamy is understood on TRP. That's why they branch swing when they can. That's why the war brides dynamics.
The environment you describe, that of a massive skew in sexual desire, allows women to get that one best man much higher in the hierarchy, compared to what appear to be their own “level”, but that's not the reason behind hypergamy. An ugly woman who never grew up desires by any man and cannot attract the top men would still try to get the one best man she can get.
That picture you posted is how incels understand hypergamy - not TRP.
Add to this that Rollo usually extends the definition of Hypergamy to include AF;BB, that is he understands Hypergamy as the whole of women's sexual strategy.
grumpieroldman 6y ago
No. Women enjoy falling in love and having a romance.
They will proceed through one after another of these if left to their own devices.
Hypergamy is her having a pile of children from a bunch of different fathers. Whenever you do anything that supports that possibility you are supporting hypergamy.
SKRedPill 6y ago
You'd build a harem, but I doubt if you'll have the fat lazy mentally ill chicks in there. Thing is, that 80% of women are attractive simply by virtue of age, hygiene and some sweet manners (modern lifestyle is causing that number to drop though), while only 20% of men ever bother to realize that their attractiveness needs a lot more cultivation.
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TheeEmperor 6y ago
I'm recently new to RP. There are men who actually get salty about hypergamy?...
LIFT.
politeAndLevelHed 6y ago
Or go back to school and work your way up the education or corporate chain. Doesn't matter if it is physical or mental - just better yourself.
uniqueeleni 6y ago
According to the graph above a 99 year old man is more desirable than a 45 year old woman. Yeah, I don't really think so.
Also, when a man is 60 years old, yes he might still ideally prefer a woman who is 40 years old or under (and that's not always the case if he wants a serious relationship because he won't have so much in common with her) but he wouldn't mind at all landing a 50 year old woman who looks good for her age.
Zahlix 6y ago
There are multiple things you are missing
From your post history I see that you are a girl so I guess this has to be spelled out:
If you are interested in Red Pill I can highly recommend the red pill women sub on reddit. TRP is nice but it is focused on the male sexual strategy. If you want to maximize your own chances in the sexual market place I cannot recommend the female countersub high enough. Same ideology - different goal.
Imperator_Red 6y ago
Yea I noticed that. The graph is correct in general but taken to the extreme. A 90 year old man has zero SMV. His penis doesn't even operate without drugs.
Zahlix 6y ago
jup, in retrospect I agree that I should have marked 55+ as orange and 65+ as red.
CaptainBW 6y ago
Mother Nature wants what She wants, and we’re kinda just along for the ride. I’ve come to enjoy the ride.
TheEgyptianConqueror 6y ago
I think both concepts are relevant. Supply and demand always play a factor, of course, but if we remember the "attraction differential," then the second graph also applies. It's a mixture of both; women know they can get better (supply and demand) plus they simply arent attracted to the bottom 80%. I guess a way of looking at it is the bottom 80% thing comes from the second graph, and the fact women in the modern day only going for top 10% is the first graph.
TheBunk_TB 6y ago
I enjoyed your infographic. I only wish there was a way to determine the weight/population of things like MGTOW's in men and "non competitors" (land whales, lesbians, nonsymetrical looks, etc) in women. I know that I dont have answers or absolutes.
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Toxik6 6y ago
Thank god. I still have time
1v1crown 6y ago
I disagree. Once a woman reaches 30, she has 40-50 year olds chasing her. Once she reaches 40, she has 50-60 year olds chasing her. At some point after that no one is chasing her. So the supply side never really goes away, nor does the demand side.
TheBunk_TB 6y ago
Not to pull hairs but I wish people could distinguish between actual demand and fetishes.
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0ggles 6y ago
The market assumes there is equal distribution of knowledge of value. If she doesn't know her market value is high, The SMV matrix does not work.
Also about 30% of women out there have some form of mental issues.
chadmarco 6y ago
lol she knows. The nerdy girl who is unaware of how hot she is is just a hollywood fantasy.
0ggles 6y ago
There are some out there roaming about. Especially girls between 17 and 19.
Also the girls who lost weight, so early on they don't know their smv due prior insecurities.
ChrimsonChin988 6y ago
Yes, I can confirm the 18 yo late bloomer sometimes doesn’t know. But by 19 she will know for damn sure
grewapair 6y ago
This perfectly explains the situation. Eliminate the 1-5 smv females and there's only enough 6-10smv women for the 8-10 guys.
The rest of us fight for the scraps. If you're a natural 4, you can work like hell to be a 6 and only then maybe, maybe, if you're very lucky, get a 3. A 3 who knows she can dump you and find another guy like you in 30 seconds, and she'll bring the attitude that goes along with it.
Go to it! Work your ass off, while walking the tightrope between false rape accusations destroying everything you've worked for, and child support payments taking all your disposable income, turning you into nothing more than a slave, all for your chance at a 3. With an attitude.
Nicolas0631 6y ago
If you are actually 6 SMV, you should be able to get actually 5-7. The hypergamic thing is valid in a highly competitive environment like if you try on tinder or maybe at a discotheque where there lot of direct choice.
In many occasions you don't have such competition, and so you there no issue. But if you go to place were there many men and few women, with lot of choice, then you are screwed.
uniqueeleni 6y ago
It is how it is. If you don't like it, you can become a volcel.
Da_RectumWrecker 6y ago
Someone hasn't been getting laid. Keep lifting bro, it does get better and easier.
grumpieroldman 6y ago
If your motivation is to get laid you are pussy-whipped.
Da_RectumWrecker 6y ago
What kind of mgtow bs is this? Sexual strategy for men in the current world is what this sub is about. Getting laid is a basic biological need and it has to be fulfilled.
grewapair 6y ago
Been lifting for 31 years. Gotten laid over two thousand times. Older redditor, and I'm telling you, the juice was never worth the squeeze.
Go back and look at that graph: it does not lie. Math will never let you down. Ignore math at your peril.
I lift because it makes me feel good. $1500 worth of ironmaster.com equipment was worth every penny. But I understand math. That graph is a very valuable thing to study, and I suggest you study it and reread my post.
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AwakenedSovereign 6y ago
You were never intended to compete with women pound for pound on the SMP. Mother nature took care of that "math" a billion years before you were born.
So why the salt? You are supposed to compete against other men not against women.
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slip_like_space 6y ago
Where does Rollo's "Hypergamy doesn't know its own level" come into play with this?
MrCongeniality1 6y ago
Women are social supercomputers. They understand their SMV fairly well. Women who seem to overestimate themselves are just making power plays. If you are close to her SMV, she might date you and extract some value, but she won't consider you worthy of full submission.
However, if you maintain your frame, her perception of your SMV will climb and she will start falling in line.
If you are frustrated that Tinder chicks aren't writing you back, it's mostly because there are a lot of top guys that are having a turn with her and she's busy gambling on hitting the jackpot - after all, she can always find a nice guy when she's 30.
Zahlix 6y ago
I guess it is a combination of getting massive attention by the majority of men and there not being a legitimate system to compare SMV.
Take Adriana Lima, what would her male counterpart be in the world of SMV? Some rich investment banker? A Tech Millionaire? A Tech Billionaire?
All that she knows is that right now she is a top level women and she will look for a top level man. Both sides will look to maximize individual gain (as in any market place). Since no-one knows their own value, the only way to determine it is by constantly trying to trade up.
This video illustrates the idea very nice
Morphs_ 6y ago
Awesome video, there are more bits on YouTube
TheBunk_TB 6y ago
I also would like to know this.
Rian_Stone 6y ago
Ya don't say.
Hey dude, it's about women trading up. If you fuck up the premise, don't be surprised if the rest of your post is also garbage
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Zahlix 6y ago
It is about her "trading up", you've got that part right. But trading up compared to what?
If she already is in the top 20% of the female population, going for the top 20% of the male population isn't trading up - its her looking for "eye level partners". Hypergamy, as most guys understand it around here, only exists AFTER she hits the wall and still only wants to go for the top 20%. At that point hypergamy becomes mostly irrelevant to everyone around here because by that point most men will shift focus towards the women in their prime i.e. the top 20% of women.
Rian_Stone 6y ago
Dude, what are you talking about?
Look, this is just wrong. Women look to get the highest value man they can find, (high as in based on the social norms of the environment she is in, and her current needs of the time 'AF/BB'). The wall has nothing to do with it, thats just a shorthand term for the concept that women, as they get older, become less desireable than they were when younger at an accelerated rate compared to men. Older non competitive women stay alone rather than settle, hence the trope of the cat lady.
And the wall is all dead, thirst killed it. Men prefer what they can get, which means about 90% of women are always in the running.
Always.
Regardless, men aren't hypergamous, we are polygamous.
You keep doubling down on your point, but you've build a house of sand with it. Just stop
grumpieroldman 6y ago
That's the same thing. You're hamstering a difference to rationalize your self-destructive behavior ... like a bitch.
Zahlix 6y ago
Imagine you are a well sought after young guy in the professional world. Companies bent over backwards to give you what you want. Company car, corner office and a secretary. You say the word and you'll get it! Those are your formative years and you'll get used to this treatment. Because other companies keep offering you more and more you keep switching companies, never signing a long term contract with any - why would you? you could always bargain for more with the next company!
Over the years you've gotten used to this lifestyle but somehow you notice the offers are less frequent and extravagant. You fluff up your resume and put yourself out there. At the same time you actually start putting in some work at your current company in the hopes of them offering you a long term contract.
During your formative years it has been ingrained into your skull that somehow you are are special and you deserve the best. You've been told so thousands of times. It isn't you actually thinking you deserve the best, everyone around you raised you to expect nothing but the best and suddenly everyone acts like that isn't true anymore.
Hypergamy (wanting the best) is a natural human reaction to selection. As a guy you are polygamous only to the point where you can no longer maintain all girls. If you can only game 3 plates you will take the 3 best plates you can get. You are only surface level polygamous but hypergamous at heart.
Rian_Stone 6y ago
Tell me more about hypergamy.
DullIntroduction 6y ago
I often see people here personifying hypergamy, like it's some sort of all-controlling entity. "Hypergamy doesn't care", "Hypergamy is a bitch", etc... It always seems to me like a way of rationalizing not being at the top, and a lack of abundance mentality.
SKRedPill 6y ago
That census graph matches the SMV curve to a T !!
MrCongeniality1 6y ago
Hypergamy gets terribly overused on this sub and perspectives like this are useful in refining our understanding of sexual dynamics.
Hypergamy is defined in a lot of ways. The standard definition of "marrying up" implies trading beauty for success. This definition is so common-sense it almost doesn't warrant its own term.
The Rational Male describes hypergamy differently; it is a woman's willingness to "trade up" at any moment. Given a man's willingness to trade a woman in for a newer model, I am still not sure female hypergamy deserves to be treated differently - both sexes are willing to "trade up" based on what they value.
The key is breaking the illusion of female commitment.