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- Hide Preview | 104 Comments | submitted 5 months ago by Rian_Stone [Post Locked]

Depending who you ask, there's one of two things going on.

  1. The manosphere vultures are swooping over the corpse, and about to leech every ounce of cash from the readership, who hates being taken advantage of... again

  2. People have turned into full blown commies. Angry that people aren't giving them what they want out of the goodness of their heart.

I know it's easy to assume one or the other, but I get it, at least I think I do. Theredpill is shining a light on just about every lie you've been told your whole life. Bait and switches like getting a great carreer, working hard, earning a nest egg, then the switch, you give half of it away to a chick who partied up her 20s, and cashed out by blessing you with her 'experience.' Schools treating kids like defective girls, increasingly encouraging men to self loathe. A henpecked father who would rather you validate his impotence by following in his footsteps, rather than forge yourself a more fulfilling path.

I think I get it, it's been a while, and I've left the chip on my shoulder behind. Looking at the Rollo articles, I see a few of them in my life. Promise keepers, children with dynamite, thankfully I've never had the soul crushing that came with 'Saving the best' but I know others weren't so lucky.

Is it any wonder that moder man can be cynical, untrusting, and assuming that they are being taken advantage of at every turn? I wouldn't blame them, a lot of the time it's true. Now this isn't going to call out the Mike Cernovich, Ed Latimore, Steve McQueen, me, IM, or whomever, that's not the point, at least not for me. Every market that exists in my life has it's premium brands, and it's cheap defective Chinese knockoffs. The Manosphere is no different. So long as their is value in something, someone eventually will want equal or greater value in return. This is why some of the old guard like abdada have long been telling people to become producers instead of consumers. as a producer, you're in a much better position to command value from the world. Consumers are cattle.

But how will you tell one from the other? Yeah, some of the vanguards have you covered there. You've been reading and applying what you've learned here, haven't you? At this point being able to tell the difference between shit and Shinola should be easy, right? Redpillschool sent out a missions statement, almost a year ago now. The only way this doesn't become a stillbirth is if guys are creating real networks, and real production of the positive masculinity that is the core of rule 0.

I learned early that you can only scream into the void for so long. Eventually you have to do something. I don't know why it's so hard for some people to produce. I can tell you, a blog, a podcast, even a book, it's not rocket science. I'm half way through one, and I've done it without a patreon account motivating me. I know some guys think they aren't smart enough, don't have something worth saying, it's all been said before, yadda yadda.

If Rufus can get a book out, you can put something noteworthy out there.

The point is this, there's a difference between a skeptic and a cynic. The former is curious, the latter is a crab bucket. The former knows why things are good or bad, helpful or unhelpful. The latter is just draining. I know one poster in that other thread brought up a good point, that a lot of 'manosphere' guys just start beef for entertainment value. I've learned pressure flips have been more useful here, than on my wifes shit tests. "What have you done lately?" All I have to ask. I've yet to meet someone who is regularly producing things that isn't worth the time to meet. I may not learn anything, he may think I'm sub par, but I've always learned something from the interaction.

Value leeches on the other hand, they miff me. You put some effort into a coherent message, the only positive bait and switch for men ever (come because of sex, leave with self actualization) and then watch someone who wants to ride those coattails. It's saving the best; he just won't do content, because he's not like that anymore, and what you have now is more special.

I've asked myself the same questions everyone has, I had a few answers, and instead of keeping them to myself, thought it best to throw another log on the TRP garbage fire.

this is a bit of a meander, so I'll tie my thoughts together, as best I can, with this:

I

You are a man. You are the only creature on this planet fit to accomplish anything of worth. And because of that, the rest of the world will always try to twist your mind, or twist your arm; to force you, by deception or by threat of imprisonment, to accomplish their goals instead of your own. Learn to recognize when this is happening, and take back control of your life, so you can do the things that YOU want to do.

-HumanSockPuppet

II

Lets see If I can get an allegory working:

Fight Club was the beginning, now it's moved out of the basement, it's called Project Mayhem. The narrator slept while Tyler created a horrible pile of shit. Be the change you want to see, don't just sleep in, then complain when shit happened without your approval.

III

If you're doing something cool and want a boost, hit me up and I'll see if I can help. Iron sharpens Iron. Don't @ me with your petty bullshit.

TLDR; So don't be a fucking commie. Make some shit, meet some other guys, don't sweat small differences in opinion.

[-] DeGENZerate 23 Points 5 months ago

As someone who is young and only writes comments, I still have to disagree. You should know better than anyone that at this time last year TRP was in a crisis of low quality posts. Now the posts are better filtered but the sperg masses still don't have the tools, the experience, or the knowledge.

Personally I wish you didn't use the equality of producers argument in an environment that is supposedly anti-egalitarian. It undermines the community in the same way as commercializing it for the masses.

[-] Rian_Stone 5 Points 5 months ago

Rational male has been for sale for years, as has Athol Kay, Ian ironwood etc.

You can't escape value transactions in life. All I'm saying is that one should be the change they want to see, and don't act like an entitled commie.

I don't see these as particularly controversial stances.

[-] DeGENZerate 43 Points 5 months ago

See the problem here is that The Red Pill (and you can try and disagree) has become large enough that it is basically a movement for first seeing the truth about men and women, then extracting what positive elements can be taken from modernity, and either enjoying the decline or riding the tiger so to speak.

These books you cite are great for the masses here who can't read to start with and they definitely have their place. The problem is that the real way to transcend this nonsense world is to understand the context of the nonsense world aka redpill yourself.

Those books largely speak in terms of the last 100 years. Well this shitshow isn't 100 years old, it started before 1920 and the vote.

The only way to understand what I am saying is to read books that are older than feminism itself. We cannot have a truly great movement before we radically shift the quality of men that stand among the ruins so to speak and that includes understanding history and having a direction.

Now the reason this particular commercialisation even works is because it falls under the guise of a movement. What this movement is classified as depends on who you ask. If you asked Rollo he might say The Red Pill is a praxeology movement. I think this is positive. Then you come to the 21 convention.

The 21 convention, as Anthony puts it, is a declaration of war on feminism. What does that even mean? So it is a reactionary movement. Then what? What is supposed to replace feminism? Large quantities of dudes who know how to get laid in our very specific modern environment?

Anthony doesn't understand the context he is in. He has a ton of drive and motivation, but it is a baseless offspring of the red pill that reeks of platitudes (GLO's link to his slide) and increasingly more consumerism.

So can we escape transactions? No. Can we escape the new wave consumerism transactions? Yes and we should because when put in context certain consumerist movements in the manosphere objectively undermine any potential progress that could be made in the right direction.

Certain movements don't build a new type of man to rise above, but instead fight the system through the system itself. Lets fuck more women and kill feminism, all our problems will go away

If you liked this comment please buy my alpha soap link coming soon

[-] GayLubeOil 21 Points 5 months ago

The is exactly my point. The issues faced by this community are far far worse than just Feminism. Feminism is an outgrowth of Frankfurt School Neo Marxism.

If we're going to advertise ourselves as a solution to the problem of Post modernity we have to be very careful and have a more solid intellectual foundation than "muh female imperative"

Soap Boy and his 20 erotic shower friends will never take big books into their shower circle jerk fun time. That's why your comments and comments like it, can't even be comprehended lest responded to by the shower crew.

[-] scissor_me_timbers00 4 Points 5 months ago

Yes we need to steer the red pill community to begin to forge a vision that can supersede the progressive orthodoxy aka the Cathedral. That’s the end game. Because China is just waiting for the West to continue to unravel. And we will need to find alliances among other anti-cathedral factions.

But yeah, bringing a political awareness to the red pill really is the future because we really have entered a new phase of history where politics is becoming ubiquitous and there are real political battles coming into view, rather than the dog and pony show politics of our childhood.

Not sure I’m fully on board with your Duginism, but I like his critiques of progressive orthodoxy. Personally more of an advocate of nietzschean aristocracy to forge a path thru the coming chaos and hold firm against neo imperial China. But that’s just me.

[-] NormalAndy 1 Point 5 months ago

FWIW my Chinese clients are socialized into soy to an even greater extent than the west. It’s crazy that China’s greatest asset is it’s poverty. The emerging middle class is rootless and compliant with the needs of the party.

[-] scissor_me_timbers00 1 Point 5 months ago

That’s cuz of the traditional customs of filial piety, meaning you show deference to your betters.

Historically women would’ve been entirely submissive to their husbands. But that is less so nowadays from what I understand (although still not full blown western feminism), while the males are still submissive.

[-] NormalAndy 1 Point 5 months ago

Guy director in a big Chinese holding company, which runs a company I work with, got canned for saying chicks were a burden to the company. They are fully paid up feminazis.

One child meant an influx of young men (girls cost too much- everyone wants a male heir) so the girls have their pick of party loving pin prick dicks. Hence they go crazy for western cocks. Even a western blue piller seems RP to them.

RP Chinese are thin on the ground in my experience. See what a decade in the western proxy workhouse does to thin the herd. Currently they are real straw dogs.

[-] scissor_me_timbers00 1 Point 5 months ago

Interesting. I think from from a geopolitical perspective China is a true threat tho.

[-] anikas88 1 Point 5 months ago

Duginsim

lol, your complaining about western unraveling, he clearly states that he wants the metaphysical "chaos" aka death to attack the "logos" western civ, the height of anglo-american pax was based on the Mackinder doctrine

[-] novalentineforyou 3 Points 5 months ago

Who today is actually making a decent critique and alternative to neo-Marxism and isn't just repeating old ideologies?

[-] Jabroni421 5 Points 5 months ago

Jordan Peterson is all that comes to mind for me.

[-] MoDuReddit 0 Points 5 months ago

The blue-pill religious man? Yes, that's also repeating the same old ideologies.

[-] Jabroni421 8 Points 5 months ago

This is a much larger discussion but, no. Jordan Peterson is mostly red pill, discusses red pill (old school) religion, hypergamy, and owning your own destiny.

From my understanding his biggest difference is the conclusion he draws, instead of (red pill) enjoy the decline, he thinks men can pass the society wide shit test.

Don’t be an ideologue, plenty of room for different interpretations with the same data set here.

[-] MoDuReddit 1 Point 5 months ago

I've seen personally how the world is, when taken over by religion. Never again. I hope for a second Arab spring or at least more reforms to people's life less shitty due to religion.

Grow out of that shit or sit in the kid's table. When it comes to RedPill, Jordan Peterson sits in the kids table.

[-] Jabroni421 7 Points 5 months ago

Lol yea I’ve seen it too, you can thank religion for western civilization (of which much is based off of Abrahamic faiths). The corruption you’re probably speaking of is checked by separation of church and state.

We have more to fear from universities (modern equivalent of church’s) which don’t have the same protections, but rather are funded by the state. This is what JP is warning us about, and also what you’ve “personally seen”.

If you’re interested key words in the red pill arena to search for would be “the cathedral”. Good luck.

[-] scissor_me_timbers00 5 Points 5 months ago

Peterson is more like purple pill. But personally I put him squarely on our side of the cultural divide against the Progressive orthodoxy.

[-] GayLubeOil 5 Points 5 months ago

Alexander Dugin Fourth Political Theory

[-] anikas88 1 Point 5 months ago

yes eurasianism lead by a Crowley worshiping potentially sabbatean "chaos" magician is the answer

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[-] Chaddeus_Rex 1 Point 5 months ago

There is something you can learn from before feminism and before the Renaussance that gave birth to it, before even Christianity that plays a huge role in the problem we have now. Read the Ancient Greeks and study their conception of a man/manhood. Also study the conception of a man in the Roman Republic. Become that man and the world will bend to you.

[-] scissor_me_timbers00 2 Points 5 months ago

I wouldn’t say the Renaissance gave birth to modern feminism. I’d say it’s a byproduct of the industrial revolution and the two pronged effect of it— a. More cosmopolitan and less virile men, leading women to subconsciously lose respect for male authority. And b. Massive increase of wealth and leisure, leading to a much larger margin of error in societal norms— which allowed previously maladaptive things such as feminism to grow to new strength. Feminism is essentially a social luxury afforded by the wealth of the last 150 years. And facilitated again by the turning of men into indoor cats.

But most certainly is not truly rooted in their renaissance. Romantic conception of love I guess is. Which is a component of blue pill thinking. But not really modern feminism.

[-] Chaddeus_Rex 1 Point 5 months ago

Renaissance gave birth to modern feminism

feminism is a direct result of renaissance philosophy and focus on the church/conceptions of true love (the blue pill)/turning the other cheek/treating everyone with kindness/giving women the right to vote - because women are 'people too'.

I’d say it’s a byproduct of the industrial revolution and the two pronged effect of it— a. More cosmopolitan and less virile men, leading women to subconsciously lose respect for male authority. And b. Massive increase of wealth and leisure, leading to a much larger margin of error in societal norms— which allowed previously maladaptive things such as feminism to grow to new strength.

I don't entirely agree, some nations like Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union remained unaffected by the industrial revolution - it did not sap the virility of their men.

[-] [deleted] 5 months ago
[-] EL_Miore 2 Points 5 months ago

Would you care to share with me where I can read about the conception of man in the Roman Republic? I've exhausted plenty of Greek and Egyptian/Mesopotamian literature. However, Roman literature has eluded me.

[-] Chaddeus_Rex 3 Points 5 months ago

"The Lives of the Twelve Caesars", "Meditations", "Letters from a Stoic", Wikipedia has a few good articles on the topic as well.

Also much of the roman conception of manliness has Greek roots, this means that "Nichomachean Ethics" is important to read as is "The Symposium"

[-] Fulp_Piction 2 Points 5 months ago

I'll add Epictetus' Enchiridion to this list!

[-] dulkemaru51 1 Point 5 months ago

Growth led to the inevitable commercialization which led to an internal ideological struggle / class-, philosophical-, or intellectual struggle. As a toolbox of how-to-get-laid, the movement isn't going anywhere, but as a movement, it ceases to exist, because of the ideological split. And it seems to have already happened... clearly.

And if it's already happened, all that can rise from the rubble, are new movements that have in common pretty much only the understanding of intersexual dynamics and human nature, and to varying degrees at that.

Any appearance of a reversal of the split and of reunification, would simply be the equivalent of a rise of a new movement, anyway, with a distinct ideology / collective level of intellect and thus ability to create change, with decreased manpower of course, since many won't ever be interested in the big picture due to an utter inability to grasp it. So as boring as it sounds, be the change you wish to see, I guess... and do what you can to keep new-comers away from those that urge them to read NMMNG as a rite of passage into the horde that will defeat the brains and brawn behind the largest superpower / religion in world history and a significant portion of the world's population that worships it, by presenting a counter-offer.

[-] DeGENZerate 1 Point 5 months ago

You are like halfway there bro, but you lost my point. I'm not advocating for an overthrow as an immediate alternative to dethroy feminithm. You would enjoy Ride the Tiger. That would make you understand my point better

[-] dulkemaru51 1 Point 5 months ago

I'm not advocating for an overthrow as an immediate alternative to dethroy feminithm.

No no, I get that. It still stands that the split that has occurred will not go anywhere, at least not in effect. Some will get the point, most will not.

The only way to understand what I am saying is to read books that are older than feminism itself. We cannot have a truly great movement before we radically shift the quality of men that stand among the ruins so to speak and that includes understanding history and having a direction.

Some (of the current crop) enjoy and are capable of that, most are not.

The problem is that the real way to transcend this nonsense world is to understand the context of the nonsense world aka redpill yourself.

And I said:

"So as boring as it sounds, be the change you wish to see, I guess... and do what you can to keep new-comers away from those who urge them to read NMMNG as a rite of passage ..."

...like you did, by recommending that I read a great book, by saying that maintaining (and not understanding) the political structure while somehow abolishing feminism (magically, from within the paradigm) is a delusion, that the platform precedes it.

Certain movements don't build a new type of man to rise above, but instead fight the system through the system itself. Lets fuck more women and kill feminism, all our problems will go away

My only point was that some will see the matrix, from a bird's-eye view, on a timeline that overlaps with the matrix before this one. And that to "radically shift the quality of men... understand history and have a direction"... what else is there to do, than to be the change you wish to see in order to get people to get it? You can speak up, as can others, but ultimately, soap will be sold, and some will comprehend how the world actually works, some will fight on the enemy's battlefield, some will not. To get them to do the correct thing, what else is there to do?

[-] DeGENZerate 1 Point 5 months ago

Pm me if you wanna talk some more

[-] scissor_me_timbers00 1 Point 5 months ago

I think it’s all coming to a head in our lifetimes tho. Modernity and the progressive orthodoxy with all its tentacles (ie feminism, collectivism, identity politics, etc).

[-] BluepillProfessor 1 Point 5 months ago

What is supposed to replace feminism?

Feminism in the current form has been around for about 50 years. What will replace feminism is a culture consistent with civilization and progress where men are rewarded with sex, love, and affection and a reasonable assurance of children and a family in return for prudence, frugality and hard work. In such a society, women could not allowed to fuck every random Chad/Tyrone who catches their eye and the divorce laws would be vastly different. Not much else would be different however. All it would take is a couple tweaks, not the wholesale change you imply would be necessary.

[-] Imperator_Red 1 Point 5 months ago

where men are rewarded with sex, love, and affection and a reasonable assurance of children and a family in return for prudence, frugality and hard work.

women could not allowed to fuck every random Chad/Tyrone who catches their eye

divorce laws would be vastly different.

This isn't "a couple tweaks." This is the wholesale reorganization of society. You are literally just describing marriage 1.0.

[-] Fulp_Piction 1 Point 5 months ago

You can't just throw that comment out there without recommending any books or sources of knowledge that you claim transcends the modern day bullshit.

Also, I'll have two alpha soaps in pussy pink please & thx xx

[-] Dream_21 -1 Point 5 months ago

The 21 convention, as Anthony puts it, is a declaration of war on feminism. What does that even mean? So it is a reactionary movement. Then what?

This is a fake news level take of what I'm doing with 21 Studios and The 21 Convention, as well as cherry picking words to fit a narrative. The official tagline of 21 Studios is creating positive media for men, and destroying the feminist establishment. The words are specific as is the order they are presented, and had you done 5 minutes of home work with freely available information before mouthing off, you would know that.

Further, I have a history of 12+ years, 15 x 21CON events across 4 countries, 30,000+ hours of work, and over 2,500 videos published online (over 1,500 of which are free and open on YouTube) backing up what I'm doing - in DEMONSTRATED ACTION. Trying to pigeon hole 21CON - a grass roots event I started building at 17 with $80 to my name - into a reactionary movement is contra its factual history and my stated intent. You have never been to the event, and clearly don't have a clue what you're talking about, so kindly, go fuck yourself with some magic soap.

[-] DeGENZerate 12 Points 5 months ago

Ok Anthony. It may come as a suprise to you that I used to be a follower of yours this last summer. I bought tactical soap back when it was just Rich throwing the affiliate link in his descriptions. Unfortunately for you this means I have done many hours of research on you, holding on to your every word.

Your exact words in the video that you released on the 4th of July when talking about the new direction of 21 Studios was "declaration of war on feminism." It should already be obvious what eventually led me away from 21, but lets put all of that aside and focus on the elephant in the room: your logical ability.

Your tagline doesn't refute anything in my comment because your tagline is invalid. Reasons are in the comment... which you responded to with your tagline. If you want to refute this, feel free to answer the questions you quoted in your reply, but you never answered... hmm. It would have saved me a paragraph explaining this to you like a toddler.

Second paragraph: I find it unfortunate that I went out of my way to digress about your high drive and motivation only for you to ramble about your drive and motivation. That's not the issue here.

The issue is your movement is purely reactionary. Again for the elephant: "creating modern media for men" doesn't say anything about your specific goals. So even though you scolded me for cherrypicking on feminism, the only value of 21 Studios you replied with is destroying the feminist establishment which was implicit in the act of "war on feminism."

Every value you claim to hold is fighting the system from within the system. Destroy the feminist establishment is reactionary: you would understand this if you understood what caused feminism (pretty important to your stated mission)((hint it has to do with our political structure!)). But I forgot... you don't read relevant books before the advent of feminism!

And I did try to mastrubate with your orgy soap it stung my urethra

[-] BluepillProfessor 5 Points 5 months ago

The issue is your movement is purely reactionary.

The Red Pill is a reactionary movement to feminism and so is 21 Con. So what? Reactionary movements are necessary to quell other movements that have gone to far. Sounds like exactly what we need right about now.

you don't read relevant books before the advent of feminism!

Really? I bet I have. What the fuck are you talking about boy?

urethra

The soap is not for use in masturbation. Try Vaseline for that smooth, soft feel or you could take back some of those Miller Lite cans and splurge for some Astroglide.

[-] riot2100 3 Points 5 months ago

Agreed with the thought that one can’t fight the system using resources within it.

[-] warlordchad 2 Points 5 months ago

I just wish you guys would let me post. I have a bunch of field reports, theory, and other TRP stuff (will become part of a novel later). I know my account is a newb, but I had to delete a previous account--I've been reading this shit for awhile.

I want to produce. I want to contribute. Let me. Or upvote the fuck out of this so I can get whatever amount bullshit karma I need to post.

[-] Rian_Stone 0 Points 5 months ago

It's a bit tricky. Unfortunately incels and bloops ruined it for everyone.

And honestly, if you comment a decent amount and get good feedback, I've generally seen those people get out of purgatory.

It's not like a week or two of comments is a huge hurdle to Cross... We've all been there man.

[-] BluepillProfessor 1 Point 5 months ago

commercializing it for the masses

This is just a tool and can be used for good or evil. In a free market, if you offer a good product for a good price it out-competes others who are offering a mediocre product for a middling price.

Does anybody else see the irony in this comment? It is in response to a post whose TLDR is don't be a fucking commie.

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[-] redpillschool 13 Points 5 months ago

Redpillschool sent out a missions statement, almost a year ago now. The only way this doesn't become a stillbirth is if guys are creating real networks, and real production of the positive masculinity that is the core of rule 0.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/7pyfzo/building_power_your_tribe/

If you're doing something cool and want a boost, hit me up and I'll see if I can help. Iron sharpens Iron. Don't @ me with your petty bullshit.

Me as well. I am serious about my mission. For men, it will be building power or lose it.

[-] itiswr1tten 11 Points 5 months ago

The difficulty I see with TRP is that there are what I perceive to be "authentic" contributors and "agenda" contributors among established members. Neither is good or bad per se, but they are distinctly different.

Agenda guys come in three flavors: blend TRP with a political movement, brand builders, monetizers. You're #2 but genuine in your intent, RPS is #1 hardcore, and soap guy equivalents are #3. Most agenda posters are bad imo.

On the other end the OmLaLa, VasililyZaitzev, Archwinger, Was, MITW etc. types post(ed) just to trade notes and teach totally absent expectations. I'm not sure I ever saw a meta post from any of this cadre.

Seems the quarantine has created a minor identity crisis for TRP. Engagement is way down and fake "10k people here RIGHT NOW" css isn't going to change that. Reddit brought access to audience numbers that otherwise wouldn't have happened, but now posters who are invested in its future are trying to pull the praxeology in a whole bunch of different directions.

Your reaction is a rallying cry of sorts for more people to contribute, but it's probably the only one I think is authentic. Interestingly, engagement on this post is some of your lowest.

If I had the fasces, anyone here to start a social revolution gets a timeout. Dudes burned by divorce or their oneitis here to rage get one or two rants max. Fixing yourself as a man is part of the journey but it all comes down to this: TRP is shared experiential learning among guys to determine what makes heterosexual women attracted to men. Anything else is just noisy.

Combine that with the fact you only want <2% of members posting anyway and I think the solution is obvious. Those who follow rule zero should keep getting pointed and elevated, everything else doesn't matter because leeches gonna leech.

[-] redpillschool 6 Points 5 months ago

Engagement is way down and fake "10k people here RIGHT NOW" css isn't going to change that.

That's to thumb our noses at reddit for removing our stats. Obviously they're made up.

That said, unique viewership isn't down that much. Certainly not as much as I expected with the quarantine.

[-] itiswr1tten 1 Point 5 months ago

That makes sense. Identifying tongue in cheek is getting difficult nowadays

[-] redpillschool 8 Points 5 months ago

For the reference, my goal isn't to blend trp with a political movement.

My ultimate goal right now is to empower and enable men to coordinate with each other to build their own networks and power, and to succeed in ways that our culture is trying to discourage / disable.

Though I do touch on politics, it's not, to say, join a political movement, nor is it to encourage us to rally behind social changes.

It's to be used as an example for why personal growth and personal change is necessary in light of our political climate.

We can't ignore our culture in our paths to personal success.

We also can't ignore our need for networks of men in our own lives. Both for social fulfillment, but also for the economic strength networks of men can build.

TRP is a collection of people who choose to open their eyes. This is a unique self-selection. You will find no better place to connect and network with men. And when you do, what you can build will be so much larger and greater than anything an individual can do.

And that is what makes men great.

[-] itiswr1tten 2 Points 5 months ago

Appreciate the nuance. I have a little burgeoning men's club in working on locally. Adult fraternities are a major missing piece in today's society. The trouble is finding the core group of contributors and deciding when to let the value leeches in

[-] scissor_me_timbers00 1 Point 5 months ago

Call me an agenda poster but frankly I think the future must be somewhat political. Some guys can be content to “enjoy the decline” but I consider that somewhat unmanly and I think forging a vision of the future is important. We are facing a political monstrosity of which feminism is only one tentacle.

[-] Rian_Stone 0 Points 5 months ago

Can't argue with any of that.

[-] Rian_Stone 0 Points 5 months ago

fair breakdown

[-] TheLaughingRhino 7 Points 5 months ago

"The point is this, there's a difference between a skeptic and a cynic. The former is curious, the latter is a crab bucket. The former knows why things are good or bad, helpful or unhelpful. The latter is just draining."


IIRC, Robert Glover from his "No More Mr. Nice Guy" , no one should ever DEER

Defend

Explain

Excuse

Rationalize

Rian Stone, I have nothing against you personally. You've said some interesting stuff over time, stuff that has helped me here and others. I understand "Respect the tag" and what comes with it.

"So long as their is value in something, someone eventually will want equal or greater value in return..... I don't know why it's so hard for some people to produce. I can tell you, a blog, a podcast, even a book, it's not rocket science. I'm half way through one, and I've done it without a patreon account motivating me. I know some guys think they aren't smart enough, don't have something worth saying, it's all been said before, yadda yadda."

What I see is not a discussion of why you choose to attempt to monetize your role in the manosphere. What I see is defending, excusing, explaining and rationalizing why it's everyone else's issue that more people aren't buying what you and others are selling.

I have a different take on what the Illimitable Man was saying in the other thread. I see more akin to this -

(From the film Colors, 1988) Bob Hodges: [ Robert Duvall to his new partner Sean Penn] - "There's two bulls standing on top of a mountain. The younger one says to the older one: "Hey pop, let's say we run down there and fuck one of them cows". The older one says: "No son. Lets walk down and fuck 'em all". "

Think about the "Target Demographic" It's going to be mostly Beta Bucks types, who have been broken and used and realized they have been lied to and manipulated and treated like used toilet paper. They are raw and confused and simply want some basic humanity - to be heard, to be understood, to have their thoughts and views be acknowledged. What's not going to motivate them to spend any money is entitlement, shaming language and condescension. If they want more of that, they can go home to their wives. They sure as fuck don't need more of it from anyone here. It's tone deaf at best and lacking any semblance of managing people's expectations at worst.

You and others can run down that hill and just fuck one cow. And ensure you'll never see another cow again because they will flee at the sight of you.

Or you and others can walk down that hill like a bunch of smooth rolling G's, approach with goodwill and as a "Man Of The People" and fuck them all.

What do you think IM did in the other thread? He offered the perception of goodwill and got his brand up while appealing to others as a "Man Of The People" Smooth as butter.

If you want to try to cash out here, then that's on you. Good luck to you, I got nothing against you for taking your shot. But when DEER happens, and I say this with full respect to your status in this community, it's a complete and total loss of frame.

No amount of money is worth any man's frame. I would rather taking a motherfucking bullet in the head before I sacrificed my frame on the altar of a few nickels and dimes.

This is the great tragedy of unplugging. You learn no one comes and takes your frame. You find out it's only lost when you give it away. You also learn how cheaply many will surrender it.

People will buy into and spend money into what they believe is a brotherhood, even if it ends up not being true. What they won't do is lay their cash down for what looks like some backwards ass feudal system.

Being a Man Of The People is the only thing that's going to really sell here in the manosphere. IM seems to have figured it out. Some of you are making it way too easy for him to corner the market.

[-] Rian_Stone 1 Point 5 months ago

You're not wrong, I knew that it was DEER before I posted. , I'm giving one single fuck here, since the alternative is slow death by lacking content creation.

You're also bang on about guys who just want to be heard and validated. An emotional tampon isn't a business model IMHO, and it sure as shit ain't redpilled.

This was no different than a new guy coming in here and telling everyone to change the tone of the sub. "If only you'd do what I want you to do, you'd be a good person!" If it was a new poster it would have probably been a ban.

Fuck that. Value leeches suck the fun out of all of this. The only takeaway here is to put up, shut up, or get out of the way.

Mostly to get out of the way. I've yet to have any flack from anyone who put any content out with regularity, it's always been people who do fuck all.

[-] BluepillProfessor 0 Points 5 months ago

What I see is not a discussion of why you choose to attempt to monetize your role in the manosphere. What I see is defending, excusing, explaining and rationalizing why it's everyone else's issue that more people aren't buying what you and others are selling.

He just started selling his product and I don't see the DEER or any evidence of your implication he is desperate to sell said product.

You seem to have a problem with Capitalism, not Rian.

[-] DwightWolftail 7 Points 5 months ago

I am not that why is all of this happening, ''this'' being the rage because of manosphere vultures. I think that mostly, people like me are the vultures. I don't comment or post. Especially post. I don't think I have anything to offer, apart from one or two good stories. And I don't post because I don't personally believe it would help anyone at this point.

After reading the sidebar, everything else is supplementary, trivial or one could even go as far as to call it entertainment. Just ideas, which of course are fun to read. I have read most of what you have written, it was fun, and it provided some interesting ideas. But did I need it enough ? And how much time did I waste not doing something productive ? But you are old and have written some important stuff. The new posters ? No point in 99% of what they write. It has been written before by the likes of you. I am indeed a vulture. I have taken everything, and give almost nothing to this community. Why ? Cause I don't think I'm good with a keyboard and I don't think it's that important for me to be known here. If someone wants to help himself, he will simply find this place.

Now most people care too much. Of course people are going to get on a train that brings them money. TRP is slowly becoming such a train. Why fret about it ? If there's something to learn from this place, is question why something IS something and human nature. There is simply no reason to complain about smart people taking advantage of stupid people who will buy worthless stuff. Being cattle means doing what the masses do and what you're told to. But at the same time I can support Rollo, who changed my life for the better and I am happy to have that chance. But why write ? Not anyone is good at this.

People with no judgement skills are not going to get far in self actualization, no matter how many times we write the same books with different names.

[-] Jake_le_Dog 5 Points 5 months ago

I think this whole "you're worthless if you don't contribute" thought is now a meme. It started out as calling out people who complained they wanted change to happen despite not doing anything to facilitate that change. It has since devolved into something guys here excuse themselves for. Yet it is completely warranted for a consumer to point out the need for change, since he is the audience, he is a partial representative of market demand. The problem lies where the complaint involves a user saying he could do better, but does nothing to prove it.

If you don't feel you have anything worthwhile to say, don't. It's a whole lot better for everyone that way. No bloat.

Once you find that you can and want to contribute, don't hesitate. Sometimes there's a one time post from some users, that are just as good reads as better EC's content.

[-] Whisper 4 Points 5 months ago

I am not that why is all of this happening, ''this'' being the rage because of manosphere vultures. I think that mostly, people like me are the vultures. I don't comment or post. Especially post. I don't think I have anything to offer, apart from one or two good stories. And I don't post because I don't personally believe it would help anyone at this point.

You're also not trying to cash in by selling snake oil.

You're supposed to be able to listen and learn. That's what we made TRP for. Eventually, you will absorb this stuff, master it, and have something to teach. Or you'll just quit reading on move on. That's okay, too. We only need so many more teachers, and if that's not your thing, so be it.

There is simply no reason to complain about smart people taking advantage of stupid people who will buy worthless stuff

Yes, there is. For me.

TRP is my brand. I spent my time, my care, my effort, my blood, sweat and tears developing it. This forum is my work. The trust that you, and people like you, have in it is part of the value I built. And I like to think I did that my playing straight with you. By never misleading you. By treating you like a student to be taught instead of a sheep to be sheared.

And if I ever try to go pro, and make money off you, which I do not rule out, it will be by providing something I believe is of real value to you.

Not because anything else would be "wrong", but because anything else kills the thing I worked to bring to life.

So I'm not going to let someone else cheapen my brand. /u/Rian_Stone is welcome to make money as a speaker, and /u/GayLubeOil is welcome to make money as a coach, and both are welcome to use this place as a portal to lead business there. Because they will not embarrass me or diminish my brand.

Sellers of fake shit can fuck right off. Hock your homopathic remedies somewhere else.

My objection to the vultures is not moralistic or communistic, but purely anarcho-capitalist in nature, because I, and as a matter of fact TRP, are purely anarcho-capitalist in nature.

[-] DwightWolftail 1 Point 5 months ago

Of course the try to kill the thing you worked to bring to life. But it is inevitable. What can we do against it ? As long as we're getting more widespread and known, our numbers grow. And everything is going to get watered down by the end. Do you have suggestions ?

Because I haven't.

And that's why I don't bitch about this.

[-] HumanSockPuppet 3 Points 5 months ago

You don't bitch because you don't have a dog in this fight.

The rest of us are going to discuss this issue, work towards a solution, and inform our readers of the process. We do not back down at the first sign of an unsolved or difficult problem.

If we did, TRP never would have developed at all.

[-] DwightWolftail 1 Point 5 months ago

Whatever... As long as the mods protect this sub, the truth, ''your'' truth will stay intact. Fuck the manosphere and fuck anything that isn't TRP. Whoever wants the truth, can get it. I support the struggle, but as I said, I have no suggestions on how to stop this. And I prefer the usual roast from the mods in the form of announcements. But now, I am beginning to take the place of the one who moans and bitches about what HE wants. And I feel like I am digressing. So I'll stop right there.

[-] Rian_Stone 1 Point 5 months ago

It's not about truth, it's about utility.

If I told you the moon was made of cheese and it got you going to the gym and approaching, then I'll tell you cheddar stories...

[-] awakenedspirit1 1 Point 5 months ago

Appreciate the time you (and counterparts) took to create this community. I'm sure you hear this all the time, but thank you.

[-] Whisper 2 Points 5 months ago

Thank you.

It never gets old, because it's not just praise and ego-stroking. It's feedback. It lets me know if and when I'm doing something right.

No one is ever smart enough to just figure shit out in their head without having to test their theories. I have theories about how men can make women desire, love, and worship them. I tested them. They work.

But I also have theories about how to teach other men how to do that. And I need to test those, too. So I need to hear, "hey, you're reaching me", or "hey, I don't get it".

[-] Whisper 7 Points 5 months ago

Communism is fucking stupid. People are supposed to be greedy and self-interested. This is good. Anyone who wants to try to make people good using force can fuck right off out of here. So can anybody who tells people not to monetize because it's "wrong".

And so can jackasses trying to sell magic soap to idiots. The whole concept of free markets and capitalism means that we own what we make. Well, /u/redpillschool, /u/humansockpuppet, and I (along with a buncha other dudes who don't come around no more) made TRP, so we fucking own it.

That means I get to say who can sell stuff here... and I'm going to make sure it's not stupid huckster shit. Not because "oh, that's wrong" (no stupid moralizing), or because making a profit is "bad" (no stupid fucking communism), but because I fucking said so, and it's my sandbox.

So good shit, yes, magic soap, no. Final word.

[-] Rian_Stone 1 Point 5 months ago

Heh. Didn't know people were putting it her3

[-] j_arbuckle2012 6 Points 5 months ago

Rian, dude.

Wrestling with pigs.

Go take a shower.

[-] max_peenor 0 Points 5 months ago

Unless you want to be this guy, there is no skipping that dance forever. Either do it on your terms or get stuck in the mud. Rian has told you his terms.

[-] j_arbuckle2012 2 Points 5 months ago

That is not at all what I was getting at.

[-] max_peenor 1 Point 5 months ago

What? You think he should just throw in the towel?

[-] j_arbuckle2012 2 Points 5 months ago

No. I'm saying he should step back from the concern trolling and keep doing what he's doing. All this post did was get mud on his face.

[-] max_peenor 1 Point 5 months ago

Pretty sure it wasn't a concern troll. That get's banned pretty quick.

[-] Rian_Stone 2 Points 5 months ago

He's right in that this doesn't help me.

[-] BluepillProfessor 1 Point 5 months ago

My old law partner was a filthy scumbag criminal but he taught me a lot about life. Once he was in the newspaper for representing the Ku Klux Klan and between shots of whiskey he would always say the same line over and over again when somebody asked him what the fuck he was doing representing those barely literate assholes.

"There's only one kind of publicity and that's good publicity."

[-] [deleted] 5 months ago
[-] masterpiece00 5 Points 5 months ago

Just a fyi, The Narrator in Fight Club is called Jack.

[-] Rian_Stone -1 Point 5 months ago

Technically his name was Tyler, jack, corneillius etc.

[-] masterpiece00 6 Points 5 months ago

No, Jack created Tyler and the other names.

[-] Olram_Sacul 2 Points 5 months ago

Nope. Neither at the movie nor the book the real name of the guy is revealed. Jack is maybe his more repeated name, but that's it.

[-] masterpiece00 3 Points 5 months ago

FC screenplay

[-] Olram_Sacul 1 Point 5 months ago

That doesn't contradict what I said. For some reason the script was written like that but the fact is that he is unnamed and his real name was revealed in fight club 2, which is a comic.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Narrator_(Fight_Club)

[-] BluepillProfessor 1 Point 5 months ago

Is the comic book part of the canon? Maybe it is like ST: Enterprise. LOL.

Seriously, I don't think we are supposed to know the name of the narrator. That was the point. He is all of us.

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[-] [deleted] 5 months ago
[-] Rian_Stone 2 Points 5 months ago

Where did I claim I was a skeptic? Show me.

And thank you for the instagram follow, I appreciate it

[-] redpillschool 1 Point 5 months ago

Also I conclude you are philosophically illiterate/retarded as you dont know what Cynicism is about.

You can disagree without insulting him. Be more constructive.

[-] [deleted] 5 months ago
[-] redpillschool 1 Point 5 months ago

You're not taking the hint, man. Nobody said you can't disagree. And maybe you're right and he's wrong. There's no rule against that.

Not every endorsed contributor here is an expert at all things. We're not infallible. Feel free to disagree if you see fit.

But you have to do so respectfully.

Re-type your rebuttal in a respectful manner, that's all.

[-] [deleted] 5 months ago
[-] [deleted] 2 Points 5 months ago

Anything in a text based comment section is a crab bucket. Everyone arguing in comments would probably agree and get on famously face to face. You lost almost all of the message by reading it in text

[-] redpillschool 3 Points 5 months ago

You lost almost all of the message by reading it in text

I cannot stand video or audio presentations.

I am much faster at reading than low-bandwidth voice.

That said, if we were at a bar, we'd probably have a good time.

[-] MentORPHEUS 2 Points 5 months ago

I cannot stand video or audio presentations.

I am much faster at reading than low-bandwidth voice.

That's the most efficient way I take in information too. I'm usually done reading the article before the fucking autoplay commercial has finished and the news presenters have muddled through their vapid introductions.

[-] BluepillProfessor 1 Point 5 months ago

Sometimes I think it is how Commander Data perceives the world. People talk in slow motion to my brain and the pauses in speech annoy me. I can read and understand at least 2-4 times the speed of normal speech.

[-] [deleted] 1 Point 5 months ago

Sorry I should have elaborated further;

  • Unless you spend time reviewing the message and ensuring the text based message is a clear conveyer of information and not just your first thought slammed down on be keyboard like a drunk retard.

Case in point my original post.

[-] azeenab1 1 Point 5 months ago

This is why some of the old guard like abdada have long been telling people to become producers instead of consumers. as a producer, you're in a much better position to command value from the world. Consumers are cattle.

And within the Consumer Cattle, you have freeloading leeches and the ones who are happy to compensate people for the value they create.

[-] Rian_Stone 2 Points 5 months ago

I wouldn't even say compensate, just trade value. If it's not valuable, don't pay for it.

It's that simple