A few weeks ago I soft nexted my favorite plate because she was being shitty, but even though I understood it was the correct and most logical response to her shittiness, I couldn’t help but have second thoughts. I found myself asking if I have overreacted, and that I should initiate and see how she’s doing, I even made a post on askTRP until an EC gave me a swift kick to my ass. This made me wonder, why did I feel the way I felt, why was my gut telling me I should ignore TRP teachings, why was my emotional self doubting my logical self?
That was when I remembered the book “Thinking, Fast and Slow” by Daniel Kahneman, on loss aversion and endowment effect. I’m no scientist but I’ll try to explain them as best as I can, since it helped me understand my internal conflict.
Loss aversion is the idea that when we lose something, the feeling is twice as powerful than when we gain something. Put it in another way, to balance out the feeling of a $5 loss, you’d have to gain $10 just to be back to neutral. Endowment effect is the idea that we give more value to things just because we own them. An example would be you would decline a $500 offer for your favorite watch, even though you only paid $200 for it; the pain of giving up the watch just because you own it is more powerful than gaining the same watch when you didn’t own it.
Putting the two together, I got a better understanding of myself; I gave more value to my favorite plate just because she was “my plate”, and by soft nexting her I triggered loss aversion in me which really made me doubt my action. If I had given into my emotions and try to get my favorite plate back, I would pacify them but revert back to my old BP self; in exchange for short term pleasure I’d stunt my long term growth. By understanding why I felt the way I felt, I was better able to handle my emotions and stick to TRP teachings.
Vikingcel 5y ago
I thought the "endowment effect" would be something about railing size queens.
Th3V3rg3 5y ago
I lost 50 in craps last night, then I made 200. Still feel like a loser. The theory is real.
anicebigrodforyou 5y ago
That’s not really the same thing and if you made more than you lost you should feel good not bad.
VinterBot 5y ago
You didn't read the theory, did you? That's exactly the point.
anicebigrodforyou 5y ago
Yes I did dick face and you’re wrong still you cuck
Edit: what kind of idiot would be mad about winning $200? Even if it was just up $150. You’re just trying to get acceptance. Stop being a pussy and look at the bright side.
DeCiB3l 5y ago
I like how you embrace the stereotype of someone taking steroids and then posting on trp super jacked up and angry at a computer screen.
FredLetsPlays 5y ago
Yes, that's his point. You are arguing against him even though you are both thinking the same think. He never said that him feeling like a looser was rational, just that it happened. He basically admitted that he was acting irrationally
VinterBot 5y ago
Exactly. You should feel good when you win, but you don't if you lost in the process. Brains are weird.
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Imperator_Red 5y ago
Good post.
I'd like to add that loss aversion is often irrational in the context of our modern world, but probably provided a vital evolutionary benefit in hunter-gatherer days. When you are living at subsistence level, loss aversion is perfectly rational because you really can't afford any losses or you'll die.
It's similar to approach anxiety and mate guarding in that they are all things that we are driven by our urges to do because they at one time provided an evolutionary benefit, but they no longer serve any purpose. Approach anxiety probably helped save betas from getting their faces punched in by approaching women that belonged to someone else back in the day, but today it is self defeating because the worst that happens is she says no.
Mate guarding was probably an effective strategy when we lived in hunter gatherer bands of 100 people because you could actually keep tabs on your women most of the time and it signaled to other men (whom you were familiar with) that she was with you and it would be risky for them to make a move. But in a modern society it serves no purpose because we live in cities with thousands of people. Women are meeting strange men all the time and there is no way you can effectively police her behavior or be near her most of the time.
MrCongeniality1 5y ago
I speculate that loss aversion might have also developed due to the social nature of the human species. If the implication of losing something is that it was taken from you, then it is not just a material loss, but a loss of social power.
TheTrenTrannyTrain 5y ago
Right on, I am planning to expand on that in my future posts.
kahunaburger12 5y ago
I think both endowment effect and lost aversion is applied to oneitis. I moved to a new country for work and was fooling around with a EU postwall HB6 at best on a good summer day who has a beta LTR bf. She almost branch swinged with me, but I took another job and will be leaving again. Since then, she has been nexting me and playing games with our common group. I know deapdown she isn't worth as much and I hold tight game not to let my frame slip. So I also nexted her, but it bothers me like how it bothered you. "Why do I feel like this?", rationally, I don't need her, with a better job and increasing SMV towards my peak. I think this is why TRP suggest you must have abundance mentality, that mentality can be trained with/without women. Nevertheless,I think oneitis comes down to biochem in your body is feeling the low of the love hormones and now, thanks to your post, the endowment effect and lost eversion is playing a part. I just understood this dynsmics like right now. I'm am now at ease. Thanks OP
mette13 5y ago
Good post OP. Never heard of this before.
markinsinz7 5y ago
Yes also another reason(of the many) of why women stay with abusers even though there's a hotter & better personality Chad a tinder click away
Sciptr 5y ago
This is something that still perplexes me. Okay so she thinks “He’s MY abuser..” but, this doesn’t apply in the same way using beta makes? “He’s MY boy..”
markinsinz7 5y ago
No she doesn't think 'he's my abuser' she thinks 'he's the only one who will ever love me' or sunk cost fallacy 'I can change him' or many many common lines.
Point being she doesn't see him as an abuser per se only as a guy who has his bad moments but is default a good person.
Sciptr 5y ago
Interesting. Do you believe this applies before sex?
catalina-out 5y ago
I think sex is irrelevant. It comes down to why she became so attached to her abuser in the first place. In which case, sex CAN be a contributing factor. But it isn't the deciding factor on whether or not this is relevant before or after sex.
Sciptr 5y ago
Do you believe abuse as a form of showing dominance can be part of this bond?
majaka1234 5y ago
If girls can enjoy being choked, dominated, demeaned and otherwise completely used in a normal caring relationship then sure, why not?
antariusz 5y ago
Only when she’s afraid of losing her beta. See /MRP for examples.
zyqkvx 5y ago
A similar effect. Every time a make the mistake of giving great timely advice it's ignored. Example. I have a fancy 24-bit MP3 player. My friend saw it and ordered one. When I saw him again he said the MP3 player was showing up in two days. I shoot him a msg to an insane deal to get top notch Samsung 256 gig micro sd chips for $45 each instead of $90-100. Thats the max size that is compatible and he has two slots. I suggest even a 3rd is good so he can switch one out from laptop. He thinks 3 chips is a great idea, but doesn't seem interested in the link. I tell him he's got about 5 seconds if he's going to get in the deal. No interest. I rarely do this anymore. Just once in a great while to make sure it's still clown world. I think it's similar to women going ape shit over a frivolous item if it has an insane price tag on it.
I have my nice shit, need to zero out caring about others' bottom lines.
majaka1234 5y ago
It's frustrating because they always come back and complain about it... You know, the thing you gave them an easy solution to, they ignored, and then fucked it up.
I have similar issues with some guys and it means two things - either the dude is just not on the same level as you (esp if he constantly makes stupid decisions about women, career etc.) or the dude is not actually interested in a solution (so like a woman he just wants a sympathetic ear)
Either way you're on the money - give them the solution and move on.
"oh you didn't get the SD cards and now they're five times the price? Sorry to hear that bro."
Otherwise you're stuck pulling your hair out.
It sucks because we want the best for our buddies but at the end of the day it doesn't directly affect us outside of that shitty feeling that we want them to be successful instead of seeing them fail.
ArdAtak 5y ago
Excellent point. We sometimes disregard this phenomenon in relationships but it helps to keep it in context. The oneitis you didn't even know 6 weeks ago is suddenly the center of your universe. Yet you managed to live happily for decades not even knowing she existed. Obviously, your mind is messing with you. This really helps put it in perspective.
ex_addict_bro 5y ago
Oneitis mate? Means that girl is something you lack. I found myself catching oneitis for a slim 30-yo with long hair so I went outside and got a number from a 25-yo with much better hair and bigger ass. That 30yo doesn’t seem to be as unicorny anymore.
TLDR sarge motheefucker
TheTrenTrannyTrain 5y ago
Honestly, a bit. I do have 3 other girls on rotation but it's still a learning experience.
ex_addict_bro 5y ago
I bet that one special girl is not like those 3 others.
In my case this was all those 3 traits: young, slim, long haired. There are downsides: small ass - not exactly my type, but a really tight pussy. On the other hand, they're all tight when you're playing your cards right. Got frame? If yes, then she is tight.
The moment I went out and asked that other girl out... mate, I don't even have to fuck her (and I'm not sure if I ever will). The POSSIBILITY. That POTENTIAL sequence of things happening. This works wonders.
Oneitis, it's all in your head. The moment you start thinking in terms of unicorns, check yourself.
majaka1234 5y ago
If you're not learning then you're not doing it right.
Even at the peak of my first business's success (and subsequent failure and the next three businesses) it was all a learning experience.
I can now spin up a new business in six months and position it to either sell off or create semi passive income.
I never would have been able to do that if I didn't fail (hard) several times over.
Replace "business" with "women", "lifting" or any other thing you can think of and it still applies.
Embrace the failure, the awkward moments, the missed opportunities and reflect on the lessons they present and you'll do it better the next time even if it's only incrementally more successful.
SKRedPill 5y ago
Failure hurts more than success thrills. Diminishing hurts more than expansion. It's true.
Any failure, in a way, a kind of diminishing of the ego - somewhere, it got cut down. That's why it hurts. The pain is caused by the ego asking to change the past, which is impossible - it leads to huge resistance. However if one allows the ego to get cut down without resistance, then it becomes a learning experience. Let yourself get broken without resistance, then it'll go soon.
Or get another option asap. Then you'll realize it's not as special as you thought it was, it was just you who were blind to accept.
Don't allow pain to guide your decisions. If pain is your point of origin, more pain is the only long term result.
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