I've been meeting women using text-only ads since before the WWW, before the dial-up BBS days, all the way back to newspaper singles ads in the '80s. I'm closing successfully on CL to this day.
Here's what I've learned during decades of dating using only text ads (no picture.)
This concerns the period between ad writing and first meeting; all the TRP-recommended prepreparation of yourself beforehand and management afterward applies the same. My love life model is a main LTR girlfriend and a rotation of long-term plates, so it might not be calibrated for those seeking a high turnover of new plates. I'm willing to play the long game, which I find has brought me more durable and crash-resistant, less slutty plates than those which faster methods filter through.
When to use text-only ads First off, if you're getting your fill of high SMV women from standard approach and game, you probably don't want or need text-only game. It's not a substitute for building your in-person approach skills, but like a passive investment, it can really supplement your other activities.
- You might be outright cheating, or openly polyamorous with your partners but upholding a community front, but you don't want your face out there.
- Shyness, lack of confidence in your appearance, a dry spell; its another way to get yourself a toe in the marketplace, just don't neglect other channels.
- Several different searches running at the same time, offering variety and A/B testing of your mating strategy ideas and theories.
What DOESN'T work
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Short, generic ad One paragraph or less of boring stats and cliches, just like X dozen other ads she's seen today. You won't build enough interest to get a response with average text AND no picture.
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Ad Oneitis Running one ad till it expires before starting another is like serial monogamy. CL is a numbers game, you'll want several different ads running concurrently.
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Too forward about sex I can't tell you how many times and ways I've seen and been told, "I chose YOU because you were one of the few who didn't go straight to talking about sex!" You could be her personal ideal Chad Thundercock and she'd lump you in with all the others. In text game, going right to sex talk will work great for you over in M4M, but most women will ghost on you as soon as you start. Aim for a noncomittal public meeting ASAP, and start the escalation clock then, not when you first started chatting online.
- Too much attention before first meeting For text-only meeting, I recommend a more lenient schedule than regular online dating, and I have closed with women many weeks after first contact due to logistics. That said, there are LOTS of time bandits and validation seekers online that never intend to deliver, so try for a face to face meeting sooner than later, and throttle back communication with those who are good prospects but delaying. Texting for weeks/months, only to nope out on first sight, sucks.
Ad strategy CL is a numbers game. You want to run several ads concurrently, but keep the personae congruent with the same basic traits and preferences mentioned each time the ads roll over and are modified. There are regulars who will notice and start flagging off ALL of your ads if you're doing dumb things like posting all your different ads on the same day, or becoming blantly inconsistent when updating a given online persona. On the flip side, see if someone sends the same response to two or more rather different ads you're running; another channel of information.
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To anonymize, dither the particulars a bit, such as minus 0-3 inches, +/- 3 years. Stagger these ads over a several-week rotation. Be mindful of your local traffic, in big cities with busy personals sections this is easy; in small locales with a few ads posted a week it is impossible. Have a couple of different personae, have a few different "products" on the market at any given time. Think of yourself as an ad-man, selling the same product to very specific segments of the market in a very competitive area.
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I've found success with being VERY detailed and specific about what I'm looking for, and getting a small number of good self-preselected responses; rather than a short vague ad hoping to snare maximum responses without regard to matching well, which gets terrible matches if any at all. Invest some time in crafting good ads, modify and update these but save every version, and once you have a few for each persona, rotate them instead of reposting the same version every time they roll over. Detailed ads have a "long tail" of responses, sometimes long enough to have forgotten the particular ad; this never happens with short generic ads and they're often strong matches. 3-6 paragraphs is a sweet spot for length.
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A good ad catches the reader's attention with a scintillating opening, and is broken up into good paragraphs with headers or openers that entice the reader to continue. It will also include a call to action. Principles of marketing and advertising apply to marketing yourself too. Look at some of the mens' ads you are competing with; the bar isn't that high honestly, but with no picture, you need your words to smile, dance, and sing to her from the screen.
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Run some A/B testing, not only to refine your ads, but to test the validity and predictive value of your RP ideas and theories. Run a Chad Thundercock ad along with a Billy Beta Comfort ad, see how many respond, and what types to each. For example: "Strong arms to hold you all night" vs "Want to cuddle all night." I've tried marketing to a LOT of demographics over the decade, with some interesting results. Single moms, nerdy, chubby girls may emerge as willing plates, but don't assume you can market to them for easy pickings; nobody tolerates their SMV problems being appealed to, whatever these may be. Market your strengths in true RP style, but with an eye on what your customer wants. Variants of "Wants to cuddle" have probably gotten me invited into more fun beds than everything else combined.
- Beating Ad Oneitis by running several ads concurrently really harnesses the power of no-picture ads. You can also prearrange and stratify day and night plates by marketing different personae. "000 Freeway morning commuter, GET OFF at the XXX Exit" "Ride my bicycle built for two at the beach" "Love camping and hiking, watching the sunset together" "Go see a live band together" "Winter nights are for cuddling" "Sass me again like that and I might have to spank you" "College girl seeking mature part time boyfriend" all running in staggered rotation will provide an interesting mix of dates and new plates, mostly spread out evenly but with occasional storms of responses at once.
From contact to meeting
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First of all, learn to recognize bot responses, and NEVER click on links in an email. Have antivirus software in place, and preferably a cheap lappy for opening images; you're going to need to do this and I've gotten computer viruses, though never an STI yet.
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Send 1 or 2 good pictures with your first response; insist she send at least one by the second response; usually they send one initially though. Have a good canned first and second response, adding relevant info about her cleanly into the flow of it. There is a LOT of attrition before the meet stage, don't rewrite the Magna Carta from scratch for each first response.
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Undersell and overdeliver on your looks, in your writing and your pictures. The time to really WOW her is at first meeting.
- Expect people to want to email a LOT at first; you want to try to commit to a public meeting early on, THEN establish and enforce a text for logistics only rule. Its better to have a very brief face to face meeting in a very safe public place early on even if there's no chance of escalating to a longer date on the spot. I find this is more likely to lead to eventual closing with less wasted texting time overall than waiting for a longer, more potentially private date but later.
Whether you're cheating or openly polyamorous, experimenting/researching or just hedging your bets, shy/paranoid/up to no or too much good; whatever your reason it IS possible to meet women and sleep with them starting with text only, no pictures. It takes more patience and adjusted techniques to become effective and efficient at it, but in the age of Tinder it can still open bedroom doors for you.
[deleted] 8y ago
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MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 8y ago
Thanks for the compliment. I'm still planning a follow-up "workbook" post on crafting text ads; I'll get to it in my copious free time.
If you pulled 6 contacts, sounds like your text game is fair enough; you'll have to work on sticking the landing. Tell me a bit more about the three you "ruined" and we'll see where to go from here.
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MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 8y ago
PM the email if you like. I've learned the hard way that investing metric crap-tons of time exchanging emails and texts before a face to face meeting is a poor use of time. There's a point of diminishing returns after say a dozen emails or a few days of back-and-forth messages.
The text-only route requires a LITTLE leniency AT FIRST about the "text only for logistics" rule. That said, you want to start working toward a noncommital, SAFE sounding face to face meeting within a few messages. Escalate from email --> Phone --> Meet in a public place to weed out the lookie-loos of the online dating market who are just seeking validation with no intention of actually meeting the guy.
Once upon a time, I emailed someone in the next state for something like two months, who talked of moving to my city. I finally got her to do a voice chat and was in heaven for like 15 minutes, that is until her husband walked in and spoke in a baritone voice and she disconnected abruptly. THIS is why you want to (subtly but with goal-oriented determination) flirt your way toward talking then meeting.
Use email to make contact, not to maintain it!
[deleted] 8y ago
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MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 8y ago
You CAN make it happen, but this is the road to moving it away from endless back and forth email toward the close.
Once you've made phone contact, you can dial back the emailing, and once you've met you can dial back the phone.
sexking23 8y ago
do you mind providing me with an idea how the 1st and 2nd message would look?... Also, I have been doing this. I have gotten 1-2 real respond so far, but I haven't fully written 3-6 paragraph for one of them yet. I can only imagine what would occur when I go all out. Thanks for everything man. I appreciate it.
sexking23 8y ago
Can you provide an example of call to action for a CL ad?
MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 8y ago
Here are a few I've used. The idea of the Call to Action is to subtly leave the reader primed with a next action to take.
These are quick examples out of context with their entire ads. Due to requests, I plan to make follow-up "worksheet" posts to my text game and verbal judo posts.
sexking23 8y ago
Btw, do you have an estimation on your worksheet release date?
sexking23 8y ago
Thanks. Do that but dont share all your secrets. I believe it is good to make some people come up with their own ideas and style. At the moment, I am making a few ads. I plan to add my author skills to it. A couple of teasers etc.
the_red_scimitar 8y ago
This is one of the most useful, original postings I've seen here in TRP all year.
MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 8y ago
Thanks; that's quite a compliment, coming from you.
l0ng_time_lurker 8y ago
Second that, this guy should get a spot on the sidebar right away.
[deleted] 8y ago
Holy fuck! That's another level of wizardry!!
DevilishRogue 8y ago
I put on my robe and wizard hat...
MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 8y ago
More hilarious than some of /u/RemyPrice 's dialogue!
I haven't laughed so hard since Triumph the Insult Comic Dog visited a Star Wars opening. Please post more of your furry space invading game.
_eskimo_brothers_ 8y ago
"It doesn't get any more serious than a Rhinoceros about to charge your ass." God damn, I've been internet-ing for too long. That took me back. Hilarious. Thanks for the memories.
For OP: This is a rather interesting post, and I like how you use business and sales tactics.
What is the age range you go for from text only ads? Years ago before the massive influx of dating apps I would notice depending on city there were a decent amount of personal ads on craigslist, sometimes even girls under say 25. Even had a roommate develop a LTR via a craigslist girl. Seemed decent enough. She would later call me up to hang out in the middle of the night though... Women, am I right?
But I wouldn't think that many quality woman would be easily found there now (craigslist), considering the alternatives at their disposal. I may be wrong but even with multiple personas (products) on the market I'm curious on your success rate of finding decent women over the span of a week/month. The bot, prostitute, whale, or just not worth effort women seem to be a large percentage of the CL base.
I would assume you aren't only using personals on craigslist though? Again I'd assume you're using multiple platforms as it is a numbers game, so you have likely multiple accounts on multiple dating sites, correct?
Which leads me to ask how much time is put into maintaining your "web presence" of rotating the postings? Obviously having multiple versions of these postings saved off makes it a rather quick process, but it's still time if you're on multiple sites. Not a dig, just curious on some of your specifics since you seem rather analytical.
MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 8y ago
CL was definitely better 5+ years ago. The growth and social acceptance of online dating has lowered the bottom of the barrel that CL covers. You need patience and frustration tolerance to make it work today, but I'm here to say it does still work.
I'm 48 now, and best closings are with women in their early-mid 40s. Strangely, it was much the same when I was in my late 30s, I'd be most successful in the early 40s demographic. Women in their 30s tend to be plate-only single moms, or no-nonsense, goal-oriented husband seekers, without many seeking a stable boyfriend situation between these extremes. After finding TRP last year I started trying college age women; I met one good but shy/slow plate this way but mostly aggressive professional sugar babies, NOT a target for me.
As for the time spent, I go through periods of a full soft harem of plates using all of my spare time and then some so no marketing activity; then periods where several plates have crashed and I spend an hour or two a day tending to several ads plus going on lots of dates till more plates are spinning on cruise control.
One of the reasons I prefer LTR plates is, I like the keeping more than the getting, and value sexual convenience over constant novelty. It would wear me out, trying to burn through ONSs at the pace you can meet them on CL. DEFINITELY worth it for the anonymous/experimental factor if you have the patience and diligence for it.
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MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 8y ago
Late 30s/early 40s women don't seem sensitive to the age, whether I put 45, 48, or a vague 40s.
When seeking college age women, I got NO responses to an ad stating 38, few for vague "40s," and most for 46, 47, and 48, even with ads identically worded in A/B tests.
Online dating reflects my own history; in my 20s I watched as women passed skinny clueless me up for Chads over and over, but my SMV really HAS gone up and up since 30. Unsuccessful men under 30, don't despair- your SMV time will come!
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MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 8y ago
You're correct; the cream tends to rise higher than CL in the modern SMP. You won't find 9/10s spending their days chancing a text-only ad response.
Most of the women I've met this way are low-average SMV; however, they are not as jaded or overvalidated as similar level women on more popular, picture based sites.
I have landed higher than average SMV women on CL, notably a college professor with a PhD, and a couple of swing-shift medical workers whose schedules make traditional channels difficult for them.
This is why I recommend it as one channel in a multi-channel marketing campaign for yourself. If you want/need more plates and don't insist on top shelf SMV, CL can be one source of success, esp if ads without pictures serve your current marketing needs.
reigorius 8y ago
Help me out, CL stands for?
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MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 8y ago
Craigslist. Running a no-pic ad was a fatal mistake during its heyday; now the fact you can is one of the FEATURES of the site in the new online dating landscape.
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MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 8y ago
I send a pic or two with the first response, and if asked, make vague references to "bad experience in the past posting my pic on CL."
This keeps my pic from being seen by all and sundry, but immediately puts the interaction on the same level as an ad that had pictures included. From this point forward, the amount of PIA-level worry and resistance to meeting is no different than other online dating. It might even be LOWER and EASIER with women not also on regular picture dating sites, constantly getting a firehose of validation and interest from men.
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MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 8y ago
Yes, there are 5s exactly like you described. Granted, experienced RP players can pull hotter women with other methods. Then there was the ~30yo virgin in AskTRP wondering if he should pay a prostitute or eat a bullet. Neither, I say- work on your self-improvement NOW, and start working your way up the SMV ladder NOW. Here is one tool available to you.
memphisjohn 8y ago
Great post; especially the concept of applying well proven business strategies to sexual life.
I tell my kids: almost every challenge you're likely to face in life, plenty of other people have also faced and overcome. You have internet, go find their stories and learn from them.
Same with the business of marketing yourself to women: the challenge of selling a product has been solved for decades now, if you study the basics of marketing and apply it to your online (and in person) game you will be ahead of the vast majority of people who just stumble and fake their way through life.
One additive thought re: CL vs POF vs Tinder vs. OKCupid vs all the other sites and apps. In marketing, this is "media strategy" and the general idea is, test / use ALL of them as time permits, so that you can see which works best for you. Sophisticated marketers understand that a different channel requires different approaches, for example, Tinder is a different game than POF, but both can work.
Happy hunting.
a1004 8y ago
The idea of having CL ads in background is very good for small cities where there are just a few ads per day.
When people is searching for kinky encounters, sometimes CL is their first or only guess. You take advantage of a limited supply market.
Of course the demand is also low but the profit is huge, as you can easily set for very sexual encounters without much effort, just taking care of the ad.
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a1004 8y ago
Well, there is live outside USA. I live in a half a million city in Europe and there are two ads from yesterday, none from today in all personals.
MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 8y ago
From what I'm able to discern from the "long tail" late responses to detailed ads, some of the matches probably come from keyword searches rather than exhaustively reading every ad. Another reason detail has worked better than vagueness for me in writing profiles.
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MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 8y ago
Yes, it should be possible, just keep in mind that women seeking a three-way are a tiny percentage of DTF women who will read your ad. If you are specifically seeking someone for a three-way, I would definitely state that upfront so you're not spending time churning through disinterested women. Other than that it is much the same game. I think you'd be more successful if you seek and enjoy side plates, and try to bring one of these toward a three-way. It is a more difficult act to sell cold than a standard two-way tryst. Also, how does your main feel about this concept? Recruitment would probably be 1000 times easier with her active involvement.
antariusz 8y ago
Shit, I had been hoping that less men "found out" about CL.
Remember it's not about being the best man in the world, that is an impossible goal, you just have to be better than all the other men that she has access to.
And taking general redpill advice, which might not get me anything on tinder, has worked wonders for me on Craigslist. I also run okcupid and POF accounts, but by far, most of my success has come from CL.
MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 8y ago
Interesting, the way different men in this thread have reported their best personal success is currently each of the websites mentioned.
I consider CL a backup plan, cool to hear that you're rocking it better than the pic sites. Thanks for the input.
antariusz 8y ago
I do include my picture, it's one way to make your advert stand out above the others.
MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 8y ago
Of course. No-picture ad technique is for those who DON'T want their picture public, yet want a toe in the online dating game. Other than the privacy aspect, you are right; no-picture ads get a fraction of the response.
NiceTryDisaster 8y ago
Great post! It's a tough job putting all this in words. Thank yoi
[deleted] 8y ago
I'm gonna give this a shot.
Way_Of_Man 8y ago
A friend of mine is absolutely murdering it in online game right now. I knew he was meeting most of if not all of the girls he was fucking on the internet. I had just assumed he was using Tinder.
So one day we're talking more in depth about it. Turns out, he has absolutely no fucking clue what Tinder is. He had been meeting almost all of these girls on Plenty of Fish. I have since introduced him to Tinder to further fuel his rampage.
But it goes to show that sites one wouldn't think are still really active or good for hooking up with girls actually are.
MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 8y ago
TBH, I had a LTR main for years who had single GFs on all the sites and would spot and report me like a Scooby Doo Detective, so I continued using text-only game till this year. Finally said F it and posted an epic ad (to the soft character limit) on POF with some good pictures. DAMN, I had weeks of dates lined up and hid the profile in just 4 days. Way easier than text-only, but that's still possible if you really, really don't want to put your face out there on dating sites.
Reddthrown 8y ago
Were you precise in what you wanted or generic in you online profile? Being generic has always worked for me (eg: "looking for someone who likes food and travel" - so edgy), but perhaps being specific might work even better.
MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 8y ago
It depends on the goal of the specific ad. You can't effectively draw fuck buddies and LTR-potential with the same lure.
For fuck buddy ads, I'd concentrate on satisfying comfort needs, like "Hold each other tight on these cold winter nights" but be more ambiguous about placing limits in the ad. If the goal is meeting 10pm to 5am and nothing else, you don't need to filter for interests, music, job, recreation etc, so being very specific will work against you.
When seeking more of a GF situation where I'd spend time during the day, it pays to be very specific across the board to filter out incompatibles before they even write. Its a waste of online dating's filtering potential to be vague in your profile, and spend several dates finding out you're not a strong match one question at a time in person.
[deleted] 8y ago
Interesting; I'd always heard it was 'Plenty of Whales' and never bothered. Apparently you have to give weird details over like stuff about siblings and earnings just to get on the damn thing! I'd heard it was a feminist nightmare; have I been missing some easy lays here?
redestofthereds 8y ago
It sucks balls dude. Trust me. There's not that many hot girls on there begin with, plus they have fuck loads of dudes trying to hit them up. Even the whales get plenty of attention.
[deleted] 8y ago
I had a bit of success on POF before Tinder was a thing. And you're right the cuties do get too much attention (along with the whales) but you can get a convo going by saying something completely ridiculous that stands out and separates you from the massive pile of messages in her inbox.
the_red_scimitar 8y ago
Pof has a lot of awful profiles, but also, at least in a large metro areas, some good ones. But generally, one gets the sense the women on POF are, as an average, of lower quality than, say, OKCupid.
Avedas 8y ago
I've heard the exact opposite, and from my experience they're both pretty garbage. After trying them out for a bit I've pretty much just stuck to Tinder. Way more girls on Tinder and it's so much easier to run a quick and effortless numbers game.
the_red_scimitar 8y ago
I think the difference in opinions is based on both what one likes, and how one searches. I actually have met and plated women from a number of sites, including Tinder, POF, and OKCupid. Right now, I am finding POF more productive, but that's unusual.
[deleted] 8y ago
Check out Flamite if you haven't already.
Tinder numbers game without the finger strain
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Soriq 8y ago
Great post. If you're plate seeking, there's no reason to have all your eggs in one basket (Tinder).
You've taken valid marketing strategies and applied it to getting laid since after all, seduction is sales.
And, the fact that you can get plates with text only proves that although women can be visual, it's not all they are looking for.
spicy_fries 8y ago
Awesome stuff OP. Can you post a few of your ads so we can see some examples?
ronny618johnson 8y ago
so you can copy and paste it?
this is a guide, adapt OP's advice into what you need
a1004 8y ago
Reading all comments you see always the same mistake in the critics. People expect to use the best possible approach/dating site/strategy forgetting there are interesting options in secondary markets, just because they are secondary.
MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 8y ago
Good point. I've always been one to avoid the herd, as in, go camping the weekend after labor day, and go Christmas shopping the weekend before Thanksgiving etc. Competition in secondary and off-peak markets is less intense, and the sellers are more earnest. This doesn't mean settling for the scraps, rather it is more like browsing less shopworn merchandise.
moresmarterthanyou 8y ago
haha this is really interesting! can you put an example of the text you place?
ELLEN_POO 8y ago
cl doesn't get much use in my country
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hypno_disc 8y ago
WTF, is anybody here who's under 50 and has standards seriously gonna even attempt hooking up using this outdated trash. The majority of women who are using these text only services are old cougars and ugly hamplanets, so obviously a guy with even the bare minimum of game will be able to clean up easily.
I bet OP's "high SMV women" are actually HB5's at best.
MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 8y ago
I understand it comes off a bit like "Life and times of a COBOL wizard" long after the Y2K bump in demand.
This post arose from the comments section, after several men asked my advice on text-only game. Move on down the smorgasbord if you don't need or like what's in this tray.
mrmeyhemn 8y ago
im gonna have to agree with you, if you are working on "text only game" you aren't going to do better than a 4 or 5 because you are a neckbeard yourself.
maybe hit the gym, watch what you eat, get some dental work, surgery, wtf ever, but increase your smv and stay away from cl. its all hamplanets and washed up skanks.
but hey, if low hanging fruit that everyone can have is your thing, go for it. personally, ill take quality over quantity.