I wouldnt say it's necessary to cut out men from your life who shit test you. I may just be old-fashioned, but I thought men are supposed to bust each others' balls. It brings down fakers (good) and shows everyone who is full of shit who thinks he is a real deal (good). If you think your frame is big and strong from reading all little RP articles and posts but you're unwilling to be around guys who don't tolerate posturing and weakness, I don't think you're ready for the big leagues.

I really appreciate the examples you have posted, thanks for elaborating on this!

I strongly encourage anyone to:

1. Get in shape and learn how to handle and defend yourself
2. Learn how to roast and make the most savage comebacks in a condescending, sarcastic, effortless way.

Nothing funnier then when one of those dudes in the gym you knew from when you were beta comes to try to make you look bad when talking to a girl and utterly demolishing him with some witty comebacks after he tries to tease you so on. Make him look stupid, but don't get angry or emotional. Just like an obnoxious, bratty kindergarten aged step-child, tell him to fuck off and get back to talking to the girl. Haha.

This is the reason why when you can be totally fine with complimenting and be cool with other men accomplishments and you have the ability to make them feel good about themselves - it is a strong indicator of yourself as a strong man. I have a theory that if you consciously make the effort to be cool when other guys state their accomplishments and also encourage other men in their fortune, you make yourself stronger because you only feel comfortable to say it when you acknowledge your faculties of success and your skills when your friends are successful. so fake it till you make it. it is a muscle to work on even though I wouldn't recommend to do it in advance only when your friends say that it went good to them the other day. don't compliment when not needed.

What you are describing is a well-known phenomenon called "crab bucket mentality".

People hate being reminded of their own faults, laziness, and lack of success when one of their own breaks free of the mold and starts to find successes beyond that of the social group/peers.

Now we are getting somewhere. Redpill is not about women, it is about life and your role in society.

I get where you are coming from,but shit-talking is part of how men communicate.

We thrive when there's competition.

Of course,one should be able to tell the difference between malicious attack at your identity and friendly banter.

For the young kids though,i would not cut off friends of 20+ years so easily.If something is bothering you,you can straight up tell them and since they are not women lacking logic,they will respond.

If not,then you do cut them off.

A lot more has to be said about friendship.I am just offering a different perspecitve,that myself i am not sure if it's correct.

Different people use different kind of shit tests. It is so obvious when you start recognizing them. If you agree that men and women shit test differently why not go even further and differentiate? From my own experience I notice how people started treating me when I embrace the dgaf attitude and abundance mentality. I knew that some would go after my confidence like hungry hiennas. But these people weren't any good friends. They were mostly acquintances of mine. But it is easier to deflect their shit rather than from people who actually know your weaknesses and personal stuff. I still get shit tested on a regular basis by the people I know the longest and they know me pretty well.

I agree that men can shit test you in numerous ways. I have a friend who's nickname is "Fishy". Yes as repulsive as it can sound it really reflects well on his personality. He didnt have a GF for several years, he was vey awkward, socially awkward although he had friends but all those friends were his childhood friends. He'd constantly act like an idiot in front of everybody but not in a good idgaf way. More like in a sad embarassing idgaf im a loser kind of way. And he used to shit test me a lot. Especially when I started wearing dreadlocks. He used to insult me as he felt I had insecurity about my looks (acne, no style etc.). I would always tell him to fuck off but now I know I was that good guy who got easily offended by idiots like him. He always tried everybody's patience. Always being rude and trolling his mates. Back in the day I used to hate him. But now he has changed. He stopped that bullshit. Because guess what? He finally got some. He has a decent GF (fucks knows how maybe one of them actually found his psychopath/sociopath qualities attractive). So now he's a different man. Doesnt give his shit to anyone. He became rather friendly and social. Which is kinda good but sad at the same time because I know how bitchy and insecure he was before.

Tl;dr a guy changed his shit testing attitude after getting laid. Point - shit testing can be part of your own insecurity.

On the other hand I have people who tended to laugh at me when I went full vegan for a year. No alcohol no smoking only organic food and no meat or dairy. At first my best friends used to troll me non stop but after a few weeks they saw my frame and determination to go through with this shit. And nobody gave me shit 6 months in. Novody said anything and everybody respected my choice. Then one day I had to go to Georgian mountains to a hard and dangerous expedition. I knew it would be pretty hard surviving that without meat or dairy. So I made a rational decision to start eating it because I could have faced serous health problems otherwise. Ofc all my friends gave me shit for a month. But i knew my reasons and i just ignored them nobody cares now. Neither do i. They were just breaking my balls.

It can also be that they envied me. But what kind of envy is that if they eat meat and i started eating meat again? Where do i get advantage over them? Or they get over me? Their opinion does not affect my health. Ofc its nice to rub it in my face that i failed my veganism but well, even if its true, i didnt gove a slightest fuck. And when you are such frame of mind. You dont care about nature of shit testing at all. You just deflect them like terminator deflects bullets.

And I also break balls when i see a potetial in someone: i just instinctively have a laugh at them (not too hard ofc.) just to see if they really know what they are doing. Sometimes shit testing really IS subconscious.

Tl;dr My friends gave me shit when i became vegan and after a year i started eating meat again - extensive shit testing again. Both times after a short period of time it stopped because i stuck to my word and got through. Nobody teases me about it anymore. Point - good friends break your balls when they wanna see if you are a man of your word. And if they wanna see you fail youll never know for sure. But if you have a strong frame, you dont care either way.

So i believe that there are many different ways of tests let alone by men. Some are envious attempts to bring down your spirit. The others are just friendly ball breaking. Some we dont even know we perform on others. The fact is there will always be people that will play their little Machiavelian mindgames on you. People whom you consider close or at least good because you want to see the world a peaceful and beautiful place. Just don't be that naive. Not everbody is laughing with you. But for the sake of it, pretend it is exactly like that. Holding frame gives you a chance to always appear equally good to your enemies and friends.

There's a lot of ignorant people with bad advice, men or women. Filtering advice doesn't begin or end with jealous or skeptical men, it's everyone and for the rest of your life.

A truthfully valid point. Watch as the "friends", that you were going quite far in order to please in the past, with small to no appreciation and/or affection returned from their part start becoming aggressive, hostile, envious and jealous as you become a better man.

Watch them and make it one of your goals to never become like them, for the more resources you spend for others, the less resources you have for yourself. Not to mention that you will never be free having such a petty mindset.

Anyone who is serious about swallowing the pill and making real change in their lives will have to cut out most of their friends as they make that change. It's not malicious, but your friends are your friends because of common interests and shit. If you're literally changing who you are and becoming a different person, it stands to reason that your friends may not like the new you for whatever reason. They have an idea of who "you" are in their head and you are testing their beliefs by hitting the gym and banging chicks instead of smoking weed and playing Street fighter with them or whatever you did with your sad life before swallowing the pill. It's the same reason why we say to give up on that oneitis. The more time you spend with people the more hard-coded their script for how you should be behaving is. Your friends will always see you the way you used to be and so will that chick who didn't want to bang you two years ago.

Mobile formatting

I find it difficult to handle. When you're starting to change but because of the nature of your job/duties you're frequenting the same places and people, you can feel their judgement. It's not like it's impossible to handle or anything, it's just that I'm aware of it and it kinda takes me out of the moment. Suddenly I'm aware of this dynamics and I'm out of "my zone". I think I still need to internalize a few things at a core level in order for this to not happen anymore

Had this thought the other day actually, since making changes I was surprised that this could come from males, but sound advice to cut them out when possible.

I think where there could be difficulty is cutting these men out in the workforce, social circle or mutual hobbies/clubs. What are your thoughts on handling the situation then?

This is the type of shit that keeps me subscribed.

I just tell my friends if they keep talking shit I'll take them upstairs and make a woman out of them.

It was sort of like a punch in the gut when you realized the ones you could trust like family had this side to them. TBH, I was bummed out. Even might go as far to say it hurt.

They will challenge you not because they want you to be better, but because they want to see if you're pretending.

Many times they'll do it only to reassure themselves they're still better than you.

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Needed this this at the moment.

Without examples I cant see what youre getting at exactly. Where I grew up, people got their kicks from making fun of other people and everyone got their turn.

What do you do when this type of shit testing comes from your father?

A couple of other interesting "shit" test men do is try and sleep with a girl as soon as possible. Often if they succeed too soon in the relationship (first night for instance) they typically loose interest in the relationship. Possibly as a test for coyness, and sexual reservation to prevent cuckolding.

Another test is that after seeing a woman for a while, a man will sometimes push a woman off onto other men, and then get disinterested in them if they take the offer. Another probable test for coyness.

Again, subconscious, but good to know for any RedPill ladies out there.

I agree with your post, except for one point:

They may have known you when you were younger and softer, and they may have ever liked you better before (probably because they could walk all over you easier).

I would argue that they like you more when you learn how to hold frame. They will certainly respect you more, anyway. We like leaders.

We don't really like the people we can walk all over. We find them useful, and we make them our bitches, but we don't really like them.

Also, I wouldn't necessarily cut them out of your life. Depending on the severity of the transgression, you can keep them as your friends. As long as you pass their shit tests, you have nothing to fear. In fact, I appreciate a little challenge from my fellow men.

Cutting them out of your life is not necessary unless they are naturally toxic people.

I'll write a full field report at some point but I literally turned some dude who thought he was the shit making big money and talked down to me constantly into a little bitch. He would throw little tests my way to see if he could get me competing with him and I ignored them or flipped them. Threw subtle comments out the whole time to eat away at him. Usually the most talkative guy in the room and he stfu real quick.

This has all been happening to me till I decided to stop ignoring it once it came from a closer friend.

Story: I hang out with him and another friend (all the same age), and they meet up 3 other people we know that were from a grade younger than us. They all talk on a groupchat on whats app and as soon as I got there, the 3 younger guys knew about personal things I thought my close friend wouldn't disclose.

Luckily i was pretty tipsy at the time so I handled it pretty well when they were poking at me with the L's I've been taking in life. I didn't sweat it and they ended up being pissed cause they couldn't phase me and ended up switching things around on them. Apparently one of them was pissed cause I asked about his "girlfriend" who he is with for 4 months and never had sex with then proceeded to pat him on the back and be like "You'll get it some day man, dw" in-front of all of them lol.

Overall, this isnt the first time when it came to hanging out in a group. It's some petty feminine type shit but I honestly thought the close friend I had moved on from shit like that. Clearly they didn't.

At the end of the day, there are no such things as friends (At least when it comes to disclosing your L's in life). The idea is to NEVER DO IT (only exception is your close family). Internalise that shit and project it into movement, don't broadcast shit. I'm already deep in some forever pre-conceived circle jerk roasting because I did the opposite.

My past reputation will come to haunt me with the silly things I did. I don't forget it, I own up to it, accept and embrace the fact that I still have the ability to change (which most people, EVEN your close friends and family will come to hate).It's much easier and comforting for them and their egos to see you being the same you, you were x amount of years ago.

Hopefully there can be a future topic made about changing your reputation around peers efficiently.

I was a company commander in the army.

Had a lieutenant come in. Been in the army all of about 5 minutes. After a few days I was beginning to suspect he was having problems with his sergeants.

Talked to my first sergeant. Sure nuff. They weren't respecting him.

I pulled him into my office. I told him these guys are killers. They've seen the elephant. They will test you. They will poke you in the chest. Every time.

Poke back. They'll respect you if you do.

Next day he did. Gave as good as got. Kid turned out to be pretty damn good LT.

Male. Female.

Don't put up with shit.

Yes! In a dominance based society, your worth is always being tested from all sides. After all, if you are alpha, other men as well as women must submit to you, yes? When a beta tests an alpha, he's seeing if you're in a position that will allow him to beat you and become the alpha.

That being said, I don't understand the fear of shit tests, I fucking love them. All that rage that builds up inside you from having to live in polite society? When someone tests you, it's basically permission to unleash that. You get to say all those clever things that you cant say without being considered rude. Like a free pass. To many shit tests however, means you should cut that person out of your life the human version of "killing your adversary".

One guy at work shit tested me hard. He looked like Ken from Barbie. Come to find out he was trying to vet me for his wife. Dude likes to watch as guys fuck the shit out of his wife. He told me to stop doing so many squats and deadlifts because it will make my ass look fat.

I laughed.

I notice this when men comment on the way I dress. I'll get looks all day long from lady's and sideways comments from the guys. I love it.

In agreement here.

All my friends who got married in their early to mid twenties... are miserable. You can just tell. I can see the envy from their eyes when they see me, a successful single man not chained to a woman, lifting and in shape, low body fat %, living by myself in my own apartment, free to do whatever the fuck I want, when I want.

They give me a hard time for it. It's because they wish they were in my position, not because they actually think my lifestyle is wrong.

Why cut them out of your life if they aren't maliciously trying to hurt you? lol

Just keep frame and don't apologise for shit. Haters will hate. Who cares. Let them.

Extremely important topic and deserves to be covered in more detail here on TRP. Our male-to-male interactions are a critical part of our lives and can leave us guessing, sometimes as much as our interactions with women.

I've discovered this to be true. Once I started to work on myself, I found my "friends" constantly disrespecting me and trying to poke holes in the new direction I was going. These were guys I grew up with and considered to be like brothers. It was a hard decision to cut them out, but the right one.

If you start eating clean and start lifting you will get this all. the. time. Especially when out with friends or at the office and the garbage food comes out. Try to start your own business and you will instantly see the true friends (that's awesome, let me know if I can help) and Beta tools (that's impossible, will never work)

You will also have other 'leaders' of their group being hostile to you in subtle ways (we are adults after all).

Be the better person. You don't have to cut those people out of your life, just forgive them for being who they are. And understand why they aren't the way they should be. Be genuinely nice and don't waste time with worthless people.

I find generally that women are pleased when I pass their shit test. They have the same look that you do when staring at a woman's nice ass.

Men aren't so pleased when I crush their little fitness test. They swallow hard, stare at the floor and their posture melts as they take their assigned (lower) place in the pecking order.

Sometimes, not often, I'll pass a dudes shit test and he laughs with me. This type of guy is worth befriending

idk about anyone else but i'm still soft inside, i'm human after all with a heart. the difference is deciding to only let close the people who won't twist the knife when it really matters. if someone you knew in the past tries to tear you down after seeing you become a better version of yourself, it's because they're garbage.

Great post. I'll also add that you should see it as a positive sign that people begin to shit test you... it means you're improving and the gains have become noticeable.

Recognize what they're doing, immediately cut them out of your life, and use it as a filter to see who actually has the balls to join you on the journey of extreme self-improvement.

Couldn't agree more. Self-improvement helps to identify those friends you want to keep around vs. those that are not positive influences. The friends you'll want to keep around are those that are supportive of your improvement, or want to follow in your example. E.g. the friend that also starts a gym routine or wants to lift with you, or who also works out and swaps advice with you.

They wish you were still soft inside, and don't want to believe someone could change at their core. They might try to "bring you down to their level", the most important part of which is to "bring you down".

These negative influences are the 'crabs in the barrel' that Rollo speaks of in The Rational Male that will try to pull you back down.

Can confoirm 100%. I work in a bar with lots of conserative, old school men coming in. I'm a bit of a pretty boy and I've never been shit-tested on this level in my life... even compared to women.

I might write a post about this... but I encourage every young man to work in a bar for at least a year. you will build serious Frame, understand people a lot more, and see real old school masculinity.

I just experienced this today. I received a Fitbit Blaze for my birthday. So naturally I make an effort to take steps each hour to reach my goal of 12,000 steps in a day. It keeps me focused at work and healthy at the same time.

My co-workers are reminded how they are not lifting or exercising. The spare tire they keep inflating around their waist gets bigger every day as they wallow in doubt and anger.

Friend:"Lmao dude was that a neg??" [In-front of the chick I was approaching? Really?] Me: "..."

Friend:"Haha he's on the 'eat nothing' diet" [Grilled chicken and beans are nothing? Nah gummie bears are better right] Me:"Stay fat, man"

Friend:"Haha dude at least I know my girl isn't a slut" [You've had the same fat pussy once a week for 3 years and you're 24] Me:"Keep up the good work"

Same guy tends to shy away when women or other dudes compliment me on how I look etc. The Jello-Bros are easy to spot once you're on the other side. The dude gave up after a few years of being around me post-change. It's just that during the transition he was very jealous.

The Tru-Bros are the ones who pat you on the back and say - out loud - "Man you're looking great - wish I could do that" or "keep it up homie you got this" and reach out for help when they feel they need it.

A couple years after graduating, I moved into an apartment with two friends from high school. These same friends knew me to be a soft and meek dude. I never knew I would experience such an onslaught of tests when they noticed me changing in front of them.

It started with small things like "Why are you acting like that?" and "Are you depressed?". While these weren't necessarily that bad, I had a hard time diffusing them because I was just starting to learn about shit tests.

As my frame became stronger, the tests became more severe. They changed into "Everyone from high school still thinks your the same awkward kid you always were." and "Are you really so insecure that you need to pretend to be a man?". Those two managed to crack my frame.

However, those two tests were such a good catalyst in the progression of my frame that I demolished every test they threw at me after that. Since they were clued into what was going on by my frame breaking too many times they knew that I was trying to change into something that they didn't like.

Cue: the nuclear option - complete silence. I guess I broke my friend or was teaching me a lesson. I don't know. He spent 4 months of regular contact with me without saying a word. That was the most peaceful 4 months of my life.

Said it before but "friends" who do this aren't actually friends.

My friends encouraged changing, working out and eating better when I started.

Family was resistant at first though but not anymore.

Punch the guy. In the dick.

Diet, exercise, and wardrobe is where this happens first - make them cry in self loathing and move forward with your plan for personal greatness.

Later it will happen when you are making all of the right choices around your career and advancing within or starting something new.

Please give some examples of male shit tests. Trying to figure out what you mean.

I'll respond to what I think you may be talking about, but please go ahead and answer if you have some examples.

I think what some people think are shit tests are just people pushing their luck to see how much ground they have or can have. This happens in business, this happens in stores, and practically any situation that is possible.

How you react to a situation seems very universal.

What you do as a reaction matters.

• You can backpedal your position.

• You can act aggressive.

• You can be assertive.

• You can be a pushover in your position.

• Etc.

You can do many more actions that are the "what".

Those are actions however and doesn't tell enough story. That means not having the why.

• You actually realized you messed up

• You feel threatened of the consequences

• Trying to gain ground

• Etc.

Wouldn't it make more sense to nor cut them off and deal with them ?

haters are good. if you've got haters, you know you're doing something right.

OP is correct about jealous males trying to use shit-tests, but in my experience there is a slightly different cause for getting shit-test type stuff from other men. getting shit-tests from guys you've left behind but it's far more common to see it coming from bluepill guys trying to whiteknight you. guys who might have just met you and aren't basing it on seeing your improvement.

a lot of bluepill guys will try to jab at you not just to test your resolve or to bring you down, they are trying to play the white knight and make themselves look better. but the bluepill point of view is so fucked up and distorted that it comes out as a shit-test. or just a straight up redpill compliment.

so for example you may have a bluepill male-feminist type guy orbiting a girl you are talking to. this orbiter wants to fuck this girl and wants to cockblock you. he realizes that you are masculine alpha fucker, but the bluepill has distorted his understanding of reality so much that he sees this as a weakness. so he will say something really gay like "did you even see that trump video? so disgusting, i respect women" and then smirk thinking he has scored points with m'lady (whose gash is now completely dry).

again the best response is to agree and amplify. you could make a pussy grabbing joke or whatever. but just be aware that you can and will get shit-tested by guys who you may have just met, not just old friends from your pre-RP days

AMOGS / TROLLZ = everywhere. Stay woke.

So would passing these be the same as passing a woman's shit tests,or should these be handled differently?

These commenters got some fucked up friends.

Recognize what they're doing, immediately cut them out of your life

If I like the person I usually invite them to the gym with me or something, offer to bring other people up with you. If they say no or make excuses you might as well forget it though.

What is this- shitty advertising? Are you serious, sub?

Take it as an opportunity to resolve to yourself not to behave like them. Learn to be a true friend to the people you value in your life.

One of the more insidious shit-tests in the areas of diet, lifting and work is the "You have made so much progress, be careful so you don't burn out" variant. Very common from family/close friends.

Holy fuck the timing.

So i'm lifting in this 'fitness' gym where I have free access there because im doing them some work. Two years ago I was just a fuckarounditis guy and lifted weak ass weights and I weighted 152 pounds.

There was this high smv guy abs good looks nice car. He befriended me because I was soft and I could do him some video work for his portfolio and he used to tell me some of his females client that 'liked' me. (hb6 at most)

Now that I have way more work and I'm lifting 3 plate squats and 4 plate deadlift while i weight 185pounds his shit tests are all over the place.

Should I cut him off?

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But if they see you changed, if they see you get serious about your diet or career or lifting regimen, they will try to poke holes in your demeanor. They will challenge you not because they want you to be better, but because they want to see if you're pretending.

This means that they were never your "friends" to begin with. A true friend doesn't react to your improvement like that, a true friend says "Wow man, you've really made some huge changes recently and you seem to be doing great, that's awesome bro, I'm happy for you."

True friends are hard to come by.

Recognize what they're doing, immediately cut them out of your life, and use it as a filter to see who actually has the balls to join you on the journey of extreme self-improvement.

This is an overreaction in my view. Unless they are constantly trying to bring you down, and are providing no value in your life, then cutting them off isnt needed.

If they are poking holes or trying to undermine, laugh it off, reflect it back to them, look them in the eye and tell them to fuck off, completely ignore them, whatever.

Also an initial reaction may be as you described, but if you ignore or shrug off whatever emotional or negative bullshit they are trying to throw your way, and just keep doing you. Eventually you may serve as an example to them to improve or change themselves.

Life is a competition and generally speaking people don't like it when you're ahead of them. This is for me one of the most important RP lessons. They'll try to break you or take advantage of you and this is one reason why a strong frame is critical and why it's a bad idea to seek validation in others.

"Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambition. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great."