There are few things worse than being an orbiter. You are stuck in a position close enough to a girl so that she gets the validation and company she wants while stringing you along with the prospect of sex.
You keep investing in her, spending time with her, spending money on her, thinking about her, etc. But your dick stays in your pants. You’re stuck in friend-zone and the likelihood of feeling obsessed with this girl grows by the day.
The first time you go out with a girl, it is almost impossible to distinguish whether you’re an orbiter to her or a potential love interest. Many times in her mind she hasn’t decided yet. It is the next few dates (i.e. times you hang out with her, for lack of a better term) that will decide whether you become her lover or her beta orbiter.
The simple way to never become an orbiter is to ESCALATE. Always be physically moving on to the next step.
The problem is that women are crafty motherfuckers. They’ll avoid hanging out with you in a place where sex could happen—namely your place or hers. That gives her full reign when you escalate in public for her to say, “Not here!”
And then, when it’s time to go back to your place or hers somehow she’s feeling tired, sick, has to be up early or is on her period.
And then the next day she starts with the breadcrumbs. She texts you flirty, friendly messages as if she likes you. She’ll talk with you in different ways, meet up with you, confide in you and make you feel like you’re her boyfriend—except for the sex of course. Welcome to orbiterville.
So here’s what you do to ensure you never become an orbiter again. The next time she wants to hang out with you text her:
“Stop by my place with a bottle of wine.”
Or
“Come over to my place. We’re gonna watch a movie.”
The idea here is that you refuse to go out with her in public where sex can’t happen. The next date is at your place. If she’s in, then she’s in. If not, she will use every excuse she can to not go over your place.
And if she refuses to come over your place, then you have your answer. She’s not into you enough. She won’t fuck. Cut off contact with her.
It is possible she’ll come over to your place and not hook up with you, but if that happens the next step is still the same: Cut off contact with her.
This is the best way to ferret out her words from her actions. No matter how many times she says Yes with her mouth, if she says No with her body, that’s the real answer. Her actions reveal the truth.
brotherjustincrowe 10y ago
What with the increasingly insane anti-male laws these days, pretty soon any sort of resistance to becoming a betafied friendzone-dweller will be declared a sex crime. Game is no longer an option, it's become a necessity.
Brocccooli 10y ago
I would argue, that if she's even doing this, you are already an orbiter in her mind.
A woman who wants to fuck you will NOT make it a mystery. You stop being an orbiter by being physical and sexual right from the start. If she's making excuses to not hang out with you alone, she doesn't want to fuck you and you should cut contact. If she re-initiates contact, than maybe there's hope.
Cloughtower 10y ago
I sensed I was entering orbit and cut contact two weeks ago. she's trying to reinitiate. Any tips on how to handle that?
Brocccooli 10y ago
Details would help.
How'd you guys leave off? What's your history? What did she say to try to re-initiate contact?
[deleted] 10y ago
[deleted]
topspeedj 10y ago
Classic. You'll be shagging by the end of the week.
RedPillDad 10y ago
There's the death of it... Try not spell things out like that, unless you' re seducing a dude.
Create an emotional adventure instead of building a logical case. As intentional as you may be about it, sex is magical and spontaneous in her mind - sex "just happens."
Your job is to seduce her into bed. Her job is to seduce you into a LTR. Sounds like she was winning. But your walk-away was a strong move and could restore the balance of power in your favor, especially if you held a strong, "I got options" frame.
1000 words - she's got feelz for you. And part of her loves this drama.
What frame is that? Sounds like a pouty child. Butthurt is never a good look on a man.
[deleted] 10y ago
[deleted]
RedPillDad 10y ago
The fact you're here puts you miles ahead. And yeah, if you're not being physical, it's off to friend-zone purgatory.
Regarding her claim to virginity, assume everything she says is a lie. A woman will say things that are "almost true" if it puts her in a better light. A good response would have been, "Oh, me too." Giving your sincerest look and then breaking into a sly smirk.
Brocccooli 10y ago
That's fine, not a problem really. Something just might have thrown her off. I wouldn't have made contact until she did going forward.
Should have been cordial at the party. Acknowledge she's there, but you have better things to do tn. Get other women, have a good time with your buddies, etc.
Established this fact? She verbally said "i'll be your wingman."? Good sign I'd say if so, if not sounds kind of meh.
How? Examples?
No, just continue escalating, no need to say anything. If she really was getting more physical and flirtatious, that's her way of escalating. Women are covert communicators. The medium is the message.
Fantastic, good job, seriously. Never accept the LJBF.
Good
Don't do that. No matter how sexual the undertones are, women are COVERT communicators, they enjoy when they have to figure you out. "The best feeling for a woman is to feel as though she's figured you out through her feminine intuition." Keep her confused, don't be so overt.
What did she say?
She said this? Meh, sounds disrespectful to me. I don't know any girl that would say that though.
I would have just demanded a sorry. Just a simple "Say you're sorry." Establish frame incredibly quick. If she doesn't, protip: she probably won't. You leave her to stew in that, if she doesn't get back to you, it's not a woman you wanted anyway.
Let her make contact at this point. Nothing in a week or so, and you still think she's worth your time, text her something like "Drinks at x in y minutes/hours/days". I mix this up sometimes, depending on the situation.
Good luck man, check back in and let me know how it goes.
[deleted] 10y ago
[deleted]
Brocccooli 10y ago
You've invested a lot in this chick. Something that I don't really advise, but you seem to have your heart set on this.
First off, good job on the initial soft-next, it was pretty crucial if you wanted your value to go up at all. However, after reading your story I've seen some pitfalls. Some may disagree, so take it with a grain of salt. Here we go.
How long after was this? Almost a month or so and you seem kind of pissy about it. Depending on how long I probably would have just ignored the texts all together until there was some semblance of an apology.
Your response is good, but like I said before, after a while, you actively looking for an apology looks like an upset child. HOWEVER, from your story, she doesn't seem to take it that way.
What are you apologizing for again? I'm willing to bet you have no reason to.
Again, comes off as a pissed off little child. Saying it with a smirk and a smile comes off differently, rather then being "cold".
Jesus christ, just kiss her. "I missed you." /cringe
You stop here. After two there's obviously something holding her back. Probably the way you've handled the situation so far, she can't really pin you down for AF or BB, but is probably leaning towards BB. I can see her reason for rejection.
Sounds like you have A LOT invested in this girl. Poor form if you ask me. The month or so leading up to this, did you talk to any other women and forget about her, or was she always in the back of your mind. My guess is the latter.
I'm not one for the anti-gay stuff, but I don't know the whole situation. I would have said something along the lines of "Did you take pictures?" or "Was she hot?"
Like I've said previously your post reeeeeks of investment and a scarcity mentality. Regardless, it seems to be working somewhat on this girl, as I'm sure you know the situation better than I.
Read this post from Rollo:
The 'A' Guy
[deleted] 10y ago
[deleted]
Brocccooli 10y ago
Some of your actions from prior weren't exactly alpha. She figured she could get away with rejecting the escalation because of your previous actions and could pin you as an orbiter or BB.
Well if what you said was true, about the # closes and the one night stands, than that's good. Just make sure you don't get really hung up on this chick. In my opinion, having a girl to shoot for isn't bad, however, when it becomes part of your every day thought and you're thinking about what to say, how to say it, and what to do, then that's a problem.
Lol what happened previously? Your response was fine. I like playful, "Uh oh..." or "Join the club". Yours is just dismissive, which isn't bad, I just like to fuck around.
Overall you're doing well, glad to hear. As long as you're happy, that's all that matters.
EDIT:
Just to touch on the blog post I linked. Most guys won't be the 'A' guy. The 'A' guy could be some unattainable version of a man that she thinks she knows, or a fantasy. You'll still get sex as the 'B' guy, good sex at that, you just won't be the 'A' guy. Nothing really wrong with this, but I linked it because it's a good target to shoot for.
[deleted] 10y ago
[deleted]
Brocccooli 10y ago
Dude, that was your in right there.
So much spaghetti.
Stop this, like right now. If you want her to have sexual feelings for you, make yourself scarce. She can't know that all of your free time is spent with her, this drags your SMV down like crazy. Leave her wondering where you are sometimes, what you're doing. Most importantly, start looking at other women and dating them, even talking to her more attractive friends once in a while (Girls talk, she'll find out).
They're always bluffing. If you just keep going along, they'll believe you.
Whenever a women communicates with you overtly, you know for sure she is out of options. Not responding was the right choice. However, know that she called you out because of your previous actions (spending a lot of time with her, and calling texting all the time). You make yourself scarce, her reaction to that statement is totally different. Her reaction is proof that you were playing in her frame the whole time.
All depends on the situation. If she comes to you vulnerable, with an apology, you accept it and ask her out to drinks. Reward her for her good behavior. If she accepts, you are playing in your frame. Kino and escalate at the bar and don't pussy out, she wants it.
If she does ANYTHING else, you don't respond. Literally nothing else is worth a response from you at this point.
Don't worry about next month. For the love of god she isn't worth that much thought. Until she contacts you, start chatting with other girls, going on dates, socializing, lifting, everything but think about her. I promise you, she isn't worth the mental effort.
EDIT:
As an aside, you may want to take a look at this.
Wait for it? - The Rational Male (4th time I've posted this link on RP subreddits)
[deleted] 10y ago
[deleted]
Brocccooli 10y ago
Have I given you advice before? Sorry I don't really pay attention to usernames.
No problem though, glad I could help. Keep on keeping on man. You're doing fantastic.
[deleted] 10y ago
[deleted]
omnipedia 10y ago
You make a lot of really good points but I just want to marvel at the contrast between your last line and the BS that is spread about TRP.
You just advocated the opposite of Rape Culture- even if she says yes but it's a no, it's a no.
Blue heads must be exploding.
DRMMR76 10y ago
I'm not quite at this level yet. I can't even say I've swallowed TRP totally, more like got it in my hand ready to go. I learned long ago to distrust women and be very suspicious of anything they say. But I don't have the game part down yet, not even close. I'm basically a Beta that refuses to be a Beta anymore, but I haven't become an Alpha yet. As such, I refuse to be friends with females. If I'm talking to a girl whether in person or online and she says that she's just looking for friends, I back off. I am fully aware a true Alpha can work right through that and end up in bed with a healthy portion of the women who say this sort of thing. I'm not there yet. But also don't let myself become an orbiter anymore. Not ever. I played that game for a long time and wound up being an emotional tampon to a number of women I wanted more from. One in particular was very very good at stringing me along. Every time it got to the point where she sensed I was pulling away, she would drunk dial me and tell me to come over. We'd make out for a while then she would "pass out" or "get sick" and that would be the end of it. The closest I got was fingering her for about a minute before she "got sick" again. She was a pro at always keeping me thinking I had a shot if I just held on for a little longer. And of course there was always a stream of boyfriends or hookups, one after another. I can't even tell you how many times I would get that 2am phone call because she needed someone to cry to or get picked up from a party.
When I got back from my first deployment, I figured I finally had a shot. She was single (at least her facebook said she was) and we got together right after I got home. Same fucking thing happened. Got close, couldn't seal it. I ended up telling her right there I didn't wanna have anything to do with her again. Never looked back.
So now I don't ever let myself become "just friends" with females. Someday after enough work I'll have the game to just laugh at the "I only want friends" line. Not yet, but someday.
rohpatem 10y ago
Good luck on your progress. I'm basically at the same place you are! good luck
l0ng_time_lurker 10y ago
Achieve & sustain abundance mentality - and 'next' her when you see you would become an orbiter.
derkonigistnackt 10y ago
just be sexually aggressive from the get go. I'm not saying you should go like a raging bull, but try to at least make the conversation slightly sexual, even if in a joking manner. Something I usually do when I go out with a girl that I know I want to fuck is to step back while we are walking and very obviously check her out while making the dat ass face.
[deleted] 10y ago
I recall the days when I was an orbiter. A girl I orbited even showed up alone, late in the night at my place with a bottle of wine and I didn't kino or make a move at all.
I look back and don't know whether to laugh and or cry at how Beta I was.
[deleted] 10y ago
This is great advice. You have to man the fuck up and not do the whole "Oh next time it'll happen for sure! We grazed hands this time maybe it'll be more next time.." shit.
General_Fear 10y ago
Good post.
Always be closing. Push for sex. Ask yourself this. If Brad Pitt walked into the bar you think that the average American woman will make him wait for sex?
You are either her alpha fuck buddy or not.
[deleted] 10y ago
If you let them. Only text for logistics and then kino escalate like your life depends on it
[deleted]
[deleted]
favours_of_the_moon 10y ago
Let her think she is smarter than you.
Even though she's not.
scarfox1 10y ago
Depends on who the guy is and who girl is, lets not make blanket statements here.
Summertime_Dimes 10y ago
In this context, no it does not. If the guy is RP, he is smarter because he understands the subtext of her game. If the guy is not a natural or RP, he does not understand the subtext and will fail.
We aren't talking about statistics, biology, or literature here, bro. She may have better grades and a better grasp of Chaucer, but when it comes to banging and getting banged, an RP dude is smarter because he knows the rules of the game.
xthecharacter 10y ago
Maybe she's aware of RP, in which case she understands the subtext of his game too.
cover20 10y ago
More specifically, when it comes to sexual escalation, you are dealing with a part of her that doesn't get grades in college. That's a major point of Game. If not, you are fighting a hard battle and likely to fail.
[deleted]
r3dp1ll 10y ago
since when is such post modern faggotry upvoted here?
TestosteroneFilled 10y ago
Are you seriously suggesting you are smarter than every single girl/woman out there?
[deleted]
Red_King_Rising 10y ago
You know how I ensure I never become a beta orbiter? I stay busy. I have work, my personal projects, and my family to keep me busy. If a girl isn't helping with any of those, I don't have time for her. A busy man can't be a beta orbiter.
[deleted]
vajayjay1 10y ago
The Tl;dr would be
Tits or GTFO.
HerpDerpartment 10y ago
I'm still pretty new to TRP, but after about a week of reading the sidebar I pulled an 8/10 Asian chick after months of no pussy whatsoever. After about 2 months she tells me
"I'm sure how I feel about us." (For the second time)
After thinking about the best response I could give to maintain frame and pass this shit test I just said "I don't think we should see each other anymore." And I stopped talking to her entirely. This was quickly followed by her asking if we could still be friends.
A phrase I learned from reading the sidebar immediately popped into my head; "I have enough friends." What I said exactly was something like "I need more than that. I hold no grudges, and we can still be amicable with each other. But I'm sorry, I have enough friends."
The next day she started texting me saying things like "You really don't want to see me anymore?" etc. That turned very quickly into "I miss you." And then her begging me to come sleep with her within about two days after I told her "I have enough friends."
I know it's said a lot here, but TRP has truly changed my life forever for the better.
[deleted]
RedPillDad 10y ago
Good point. Some betas are addicted to helping women. She gets the validation and support she seeks; he feels useful, heroic and validated by any pittance of gratitude she throws his way.
♂
trpbot 10y ago
Confirmed: 1 point awarded to /u/Jaereth by RedPillDad. ^[History]
[This is an Automated Message]
[deleted]
MustacheBrigade 10y ago
Actually for the record, I saw Ron Jeremy at an event the other week, and he got denied HARD. Turbo Pun intended.
PlusGoody 10y ago
I actually disagree about the sex. Between pity sex, tired-of-saying-no sex, and what-the-hell-it-just-might-work sex, a sizable fraction of orbiting ends up in sex. Usually terrible sex, and rarely sex that gets repeated, but it is sex and it needs to be accounted for in theory and practice.
omnipedia 10y ago
I think there's a lot of power to the perspective of "I'll fuck you, but you're not worthy of the friend zone"
All women know that men will fuck anything female- or think men are this way. But to play into it like, yeah you have to earn being more than just a fuck, calls them on it.
For women they pretend like it's reverse, like sex is an additional option. An upgrade, hence the "just" in "just friends".
Jaereth 10y ago
This is pretty astute right here. Guys are shifting the script from "kiss my ass and earn sex" to "start fucking first and if you behave then I'll entertain the idea of a relationship".
I love it personally.
xthecharacter 10y ago
That's interesting. For girls it's often like, "if you are a good enough friend eventually I'll give you sex" but for guys it's often like, "Once you have sex with me, I'll see if you're worth befriending or entering a relationship with." Two different routes for becoming close to a person...
gohammer3 10y ago
You just have to know that the chick is attracted you or have to hold off on your time/attention until you get sex. Honestly I can tell within seconds if a girl wants my dick.Honestly you can't negiotiate desire so I don't waste time on chicks who don't show obvious signs that they are into me.
Philhelm 10y ago
"Honestly I can tell within seconds if a girl wants my dick."
That's a valuable ability, and one I have never possessed since my cold reptilian brain has a near inability to understand people on an emotional level so I can miss the subtle, nonverbal cues. I've always had to rely on escalation while flying blind in order to find out if sex is/will be on the table.
[deleted] 10y ago
It's all body language bro.
Checklist:
xthecharacter 10y ago
Let me add a couple more that involve her words/actions moreso than body language:
RedPillDad 10y ago
Solid list of IOI's. Another one is proximity. A girl will literally hover around if she's into you.
Try a compliance test, take her by the hand and lead her a few steps. Try a proximity test, move in close, whisper something and see how she physically responds to your closeness. Or, if you're bold, go straight to the kiss test.
systemshock869 10y ago
Here's a hard one: my buddy has been seeing this girl that is very cute. They have already had the conversation that they are both against relationships, however he has told me that he REALLY likes this girl.
I met her and her friends for the first time a week or so ago, and ran into a situation that I haven't come across before. She was WAY into me. Almost all of the above IOI's. Shit testing me, standing near me, smiling uncontrollably when I smiled at her to the point where her friends even commented about it. She would literally stare directly into my eyes and maintain eye contact.
I usually go by the rule that if someone maintains eye contact like that, you should hold your frame and win the staring contest. But I couldn't bring myself to do it - my good friend sitting right there beside her. He was acting pretty aloof so I'm not 100% sure he saw all of her IOIs.
It just made me extremely uncomfortable, and affected my 'game' with the other girls for sure. I'm guessing my best option here is to just stay away from hanging out with this group of girls?
RedPillDad 10y ago
She may be playing you to give him the soft goodbye. She might be trying to spark his jealousy and get him chasing. She might be a flirty validation-whore who enjoys the challenge of luring you in...
She probably just loves the drama.
[deleted]
absurdi5t 10y ago
age: mid-twenties
funny that you mention the "go straight for the kiss" test. Just recently, after a second date that ended in a not so satisfying kiss, I decided to take try a third date anyway.
3rd date, after 1.5 weeks of semi-cold texting, I only contacted her for an initial way to start talking again and the setup. I picked her up at class. I'm complete shit at escalating and have some deep-seated sexual expression issues probably due to my catholic upbringing, but I decided to just go for it. Beforehand, I read as much as I could on escalation because I knew that if I didn't, I probably wasn't going to get a fourth date let alone this go anywhere. After about three minutes of walking to my car, at the very beginning of the date, we were laughing about something dumb and I just grabbed her arm, said her name, looked at her and brought her close. She looked at me said "oh" and we made out. Wasn't long, I pulled away, but she seemed into it and I was very glad I started this way because it showed my intention from the start (I told myself I didn't want to feel regret after this date knowing that I hadn't escalated during the previous one). That was the important part.
Fast forward to end of date, she comes up to my apt with ease, we makeout twice, then I fuck it up by not escalating from there and after twenty minutes she decides to head home due to it being late on a work night, we make out in front of her place and I go on my way. What should have been a very fun night with future potential has now turned into very few cold texts, and only when I've tried to initiate for a meetup twice. I'm pretty sure she's moved on to more experienced pastures.
ALWAYS BE ESCALATING.
omnipedia 10y ago
Stop fucking around, take her out this weekend and fuck her. She left because she thought you weren't into her, but you have one more chance.
garlicextract 10y ago
Well... shit. None of that shit happens to me.
[deleted] 10y ago
a) How old are you
b) Ok, how about just getting girls to laugh - period? I'm sure at some point you've made a cute girl laugh. Now, make it a goal to get any women you meet laugh, very casually. Try see if you can get the 50 year old grocery store clerk with a frunt but to crack a smile. Don't go become the jester, but just practice making women laugh, its a verifiable skill that can be practiced and improved. Women laugh at different things men laugh at, learn how to go into female humor mode.
garlicextract 10y ago
I'm in my 20s. And ok, not the laughing part. Pretty much everyone I know considers me funny, guys or girls. My problem is I apparently make them laugh in friend mode I guess. I definitely don't experience the rest of the things though. I'm also 5'6" and most of my friends are ~6ft range, and I can tell girls are more drawn to them.
[deleted] 10y ago
Continue to improve yourself and keep an eye out for those signs, they will come. Try it on girls that you know you have higher SMV than so that you get a good feel for it. Then when an HB comes along you'll know the signs
RedPillDad 10y ago
Cuz you smell like a paisano fart?
Or is your "extract" the non-stinky variety?
garlicextract 10y ago
I don't smell like garlic in real life, and yeah, never experienced any of the stuff in themormon4's post. Girls just don't do that stuff to me. I think being a half foot under 6' has something to do with it, but even if it's not, I don't experience those kind of things.
doritoesNcoffee 10y ago
I'm 5'7. I used to think that my height crippled me before, it doesn't. Your height will cripple you as long as YOU will believe that. Don't go to the clubs, that's one other thing, as a short male you are instantly at a disadvantage in a club. One of the most things for a man is his reputation. If your 6ft friends respect you, and females see that, they will not care about the height.
garlicextract 10y ago
I understand what you're saying, but it still sucks that they have to see your 6' friends respect you in order to not have height be an issue.
RedPillDad 10y ago
Thought you were joking based on the name. Anyways, girls respond to energy and confidence. If you're laid-back, you're not going to spark much interest. When you're having fun, they want to join in because you're the better party.
lgastako 10y ago
You're probably better off this way, because even a "great" reader of non-verbal cues is going to be wrong some percentage of the time and end up not escalating in a situation where it would've worked.
I_Wear_Jorts5 10y ago
For me, she doesn't need to fuck on the first date, but has to put out a least a little bit. Even a quick makeout session is enough to start out. This denotes at least some level of attraction. I immediately reject all girls who do not. Every date after that must take a step forward, or else I demote to the back of the line. For example, if we make out for a few minutes on the first date, it needs to be AT LEAST more intense and longer on the second. If you aren't fucking by the 3rd or 4th date, it should be an automatic rejection.
What I've noticed is that a girl will allow you to escalate up to sex, turn that down, and slowly scale things back over time until you are a platonic orbiter. That's why you must keep escalating, even when you think you've got things "in the bag." I learned early in my TRP development that women will take any opportunity to turn you into an orbiter. By always escalating, you eliminate that risk entirely
Transmigratory 10y ago
You say "escalate" like it will be easy for newbies. That is often the hardest part, esp psychologically, hence people end up in orbiter ville.
This is where guys like Roosh say it is important for guys to learn game. Game = indoctrinates you with your personalised style of escalation.
[deleted] 10y ago
Personally all the years where I've been led to believe coming on to a woman is a bad thing have made it really hard to escalate effectively. I've been made to feel guilty for showing a sexual interest in a woman, it's creepy and unwanted and not what gentlemen do etc - right. And when a woman rejects your advances you're made to feel like some rapist for even trying, even though it's perfectly natural to want to show a woman she's sexually-desirable.
There must be classy ways to escalate, touching and the like, that's fine, it's the psychological part that I find really hard.
Cyralea 10y ago
This is still your BP programming kicking in. Women don't want classy escalation. The rationalization that you need to escalate in a gentlemanly way only exists in your head.
Women want aggressive escalation by a man they're already attracted to. Learn to get over your personal hangup.
colovick 10y ago
Bargaining sucks. Good luck to you.
tallwheel 10y ago
So much of this resonates with my former BP self. It's true. I was raised to believe that coming on to a woman is a bad thing, and felt like some rapist when my clumsy advances were rejected.
NAFI_S 10y ago
You need to stop this mindset. Never be unashamed of our natural urges, if you get turned down on the first advance, then stop and re evaluate, you failed to build attraction and identify it.
On the flip side dont persist with unwanted advances, thats where it becomes creepy.
Transmigratory 10y ago
Classy ways are the general ways, except when you persist despite the CLEAR indicators of disinterest.
The psychology is the hardest part, you conquer that and you've taken out a hurdle. Best thing to do is to practice tackling your unhelpful thinking patterns to the matter.
Maybe pick up some CBT (books, Youtube etc) and mindfulness to help detox yourself from the detrimental thinking pattern which is stopping you from being the best version of yourself.
trphardmode 10y ago
Would you be interested in filling out this sexual consent form m'lady? tips fedora
[deleted] 10y ago
Okay, it's obvious I'm not quite there yet. Just need to get over this psychological block. I'm trying to deprogram years of BP thinking.
HiddenPools 10y ago
Two words, two fucking words:
GO DANCING
It doesn't matter if you're COMPLETE shit, it's GUARANTEED socially acceptable contact. If she's into you, you'll know it, if not, you'll know it (at least by the end of the night).
If you can't make yourself go out on a dance floor, you don't have enough self-confidence yet. Go get some.
tallwheel 10y ago
Go to a club where she will have tons of other guys vying for her attention? Oh, brilliant idea. /s If you're already an orbiter who has trouble escalating, you're just going to end up being the chump guy she came there with while she finds an alpha to make out and leave with.
HiddenPools 10y ago
This was advice for newbies to escalate kino, not worrying about someone's oneitis and having a girl flake off.
Even in my most beta of days I've never had a girl leave me for "an alpha" in the middle of dancing. If she does, great, scored herself right out of the dating pool.
Transmigratory 10y ago
Dancing is a great idea. Though I think for some of the more timid people (the people who find it unbelievably hard to escalate), I reckon something more isolated* is needed.
*Try to escalate while meeting up, for example.
tallwheel 10y ago
And I gave a counter-argument for why it might not be a good idea for newbies. If your experience is different, then great.
omnipedia 10y ago
... And then never hear from you again. Seriously "Dance with the one that brought you" is so old it's a cliche. You can't win her by keeping her from meeting other guys.
Part of what escalating does is test whether she is worth your time. She might not be attracted, but she might actually be a bimbo without any class who runs off when she sees something shiny.
xthecharacter 10y ago
This. If she dances with other guys at a club you brought her to, she's just not into you at all. Move on
drewbaccha 10y ago
As patrice O'Neal said, Don't be a time ho.
Another way to gain attention from friendzone girls is to start fucking other women. Pre-selection is a stupidly powerful tool. It also helps with dread game and preventing oneitis.
HerpDerpartment 10y ago
Couldn't agree more. You must spin plates to activate Pre-Selection mode. Actually, just getting a girls friends to like or talk about you frequently and positively does the same thing, but only for that particular group.
Nice username Han Brolo.
[deleted] 10y ago
[deleted]
[deleted]
gt35r 10y ago
Listen man, I've been in the same spot as you except with 2 different girls. Once I left high school I would get the occasional "Hey how's it going" text, just so they could cover all their bases and make sure I didn't forget about them. They are literally just trying to suck the attention out of you when THEY feel bored. I wish I learned this sooner, and I would have not wasted so much time. Worst part is I could have fucked one of them for certain but I was a pussy back then. I'm glad you are free and know the exact feeling you have, it's a step forward in the right direction and should make you feel more powerful in your ability to make decisions on what YOU want out of them.
MasonJarTeaDrinker 10y ago
Ouch, that sucks bro but good for you, you're gonna get yourself some bomb pussy later.
Prattler26 10y ago
For the record, you should have quietly walked away early on in the relationship when you weren't getting your needs met. The girl didn't do this to you, you did this to yourself.
[deleted]
Philhelm 10y ago
Good job, although I think it would have better to pull away from her without explanation. Since you called her a whore, her hamster will rationalize that you're the bad guy and it won't hurt her emotionally as much to lose a satellite.
johnnight 10y ago
ITT: Monday morning quarterbacking.
The guy made a 100% grade right decision with a 90% grade execution and you are all lecturing him how to get to full score.
You know what? At that point in time he had no mental confidence and redpill rhetorical skill to execute a perfect dump game. If he had the skill, he would not be in the position to require that skill. He would have banged her months ago.
RedPillDad 10y ago
You're right. It's armchair psychology. But debriefing a scenario gives others a chance to learn some different perspectives, so they're not caught off guard when they find themselves in a similar situation.
ziggitypumziggitypim 10y ago
Silence speaks. I would have completely dogged her out of my life without a word. Its not just a waste of time pursuing these girls, it's also a lot of emotional investment down the drain. They deserve zero closure when you fuck them off your life.
[deleted]
[deleted] 10y ago
Spot on, just breaking it off would either make her very curious, or it would mean nothing at all.
[deleted] 10y ago
[deleted]
fastball21 10y ago
Sometimes you have to torch a bridge to stop yourself from crossing it again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3Cty-q73wk
[deleted] 10y ago
Let her hamster.
Even hamster's have limits.. and if you let her have herself as the victim she will.
I_Wear_Jorts5 10y ago
Been in your shoes before. While it probably would have been "better" if you just hung around, bitched her in person (jokingly) for being a slut, and stopped validating her entirely, taking the nuclear option isn't always a bad thing for a newbie. I know it's going to sound demeaning, but you have to figure out you have balls when you first start TRP. Before this, you didn't have balls (at least in her eyes). She isn't (and probably never was) attracted to you, but now she's pissed because she lost one of her eunuch orbiters who validated her shitty existence.
Taking the nuclear option with women isn't great, but it removes the monkey from your back, and liberates you from the oneitis that you suffered from. However, you are in a very vulnerable position now and she might try to rope you back in. Do not fall for this. Go no contact for at least 3-6 months.
[deleted] 10y ago
[deleted]
[deleted] 10y ago
[deleted]
[deleted] 10y ago
I'm going In Monk Mode today.
omnipedia 10y ago
Don't hate fuck her. Don't keep her number. Never talk to her again. You nuked her, if you try to fuck her, even a year from now you will undo everything and validate her.
If you ever see her again, ignore her or treat her like the slimy politician that you loathe but can't punch.
MasonJarTeaDrinker 10y ago
I disagree, if he gets the change to fuck her he should, I would but I'm just a horny fuck.
He shouldn't even think that as a possibility though, if it happens it happens if not then no biggie.
RedPillDad 10y ago
Your friend did you a favor. You had over-invested in her. She wasn't that interested in you, but enjoyed the attention and validation enough to keep you in the grey zone.
Your feelings of rage are misplaced. Be angry at your Beta side, not her.
Try running some different scenarios through your head of how you could have handled it differently... I think aloofness would have been far more effective. Her hamster would be in overdrive trying to recover. But as soon as you opened your mouth, you're the judgmental asshole or the sore loser.
newlifeasredpill 10y ago
This......I am working hard on transferring my past anger to ME. I was the pushover who allowed bad things to happen.
[deleted] 10y ago
[deleted]
RedPillDad 10y ago
Calling her a "whore" was a butthurt response and gives her hamster all the closure she needs. Leaving her hanging would have been far more torturous than a petty insult.
In your mind, the story ended with you as the hero. In her mind, the story ended with you as the villain. Both of you walk away with a sense of closure.
Part of deprogramming yourself is to abandon those fucking beta storylines forcing you to do stupid shit, and learn to influence the story she weaves in her mind.
[deleted] 10y ago
I never thought of it in that way, I was pretty much following the narrative to a fucking T, thanks for the input man.
shooter212 10y ago
"Leaving her hanging would have been far more torturous than a petty insult."
I don't see how. There could be a number of innocuous reasons OP would not be seeing the girl any more... maybe he met another girl who showed more interest or he got really busy at work. I don't see these kinds of reasons making the girl feel that bad.
I'd prefer to make it clear that her actions are why I'm done, so she knows it's on her. Sometimes people need to be shamed for bad behavior.
RedPillDad 10y ago
Closed loop versus open loop. As guys, we prefer a tidy closed loop. We want to spell it all out clearly. But for women, an open loop gets the hamster engaged. She sees you as mysterious and edgy instead of just another straight dude spilling his guts.
Edit: Of course it all changes in a relationship. Less games and posturing needed.
reezyreddits 10y ago
Her hamster would have kicked in after no contact, though. She'll notice he hasn't been talking to her and ask him why. That's when he hits her with one of your options "oh yeah I met someone new" or "Yeah I just got this promotion at work" now she sees his value. Textbook, man.
Junglebutton 10y ago
You're definitely not alpha at grammar. There are like three periods in that entire post and it's "too" not "to".
[deleted]
thesixthone 10y ago
Been there, sounds too much like my story. Feel for you man, glad you are over her. I'd be interested to know what you did with your best friend. You guys still buddies?
[deleted] 10y ago
[deleted]
thesixthone 10y ago
Gotcha. Yeah my ex started blowing my best friend and I have no idea whether or not to be pissed about. I think I care too much about my friendship, and not enough about my ex to care, but hell it isn't easy.
ArchetypalSage 10y ago
Your ex sucked your best friend? I would be pissed. I don't expect loyalty from bitches, but I do expect it from my brothers.
bonadzz 10y ago
I agree. I was in a similar situation where my best friend did shit with the girl I was orbiting when I was in the bluepill mentality. It's not about the girl at this point. It's that you're best friend betrayed you. I talked to my best friend about this girl almost everyday for a year and he goes behind my back to do shit with her. That is not a loyal friend.
Sure, we have friendly competition at bars and stuff where we are hitting on the same girl and who ever gets her gets her and it's no big deal.
This is similar to saving up for your dream car. You spend a year putting money aside, talking about it everyday how one day you will afford it, even if you never can, you save up for it and even have a jar in your room where you put money into that says "my dream car fund" and then after along time of saving up, your friend goes out on a whim and buys the exact car you were saving up for this whole time because he had the money. This would piss me the fuck off and is a straight stab to me because there's thousands of other fancy cars out there. But why did he choose the exact one I was saying up for.
This is a direct attack at you from your friend. It's not about the girl.
[deleted] 10y ago
[deleted]
reezyreddits 10y ago
This.
One of my boys came up to me in the gym and told me my ex tried to contact him on OKCupid. Now, I don't know this fool from Adam, so he could have been feeding me the "lol this bitch is crazy for messaging me" angle while secretly giving her a fat load behind my back. At that moment, I really didn't care though. Not only was I banging new chicks, I also felt bad for her that she was using my name to try to make herself relevant to guys on the sexual market, lol.
I also never confronted her about it. I knew that's what she would have wanted. Maintained no contact. She's seeing her ex that I broke up with her over when I suspected he was still in the picture.
[deleted]
CrimsonDeep 10y ago
To sum up the last few words quickly :
Actions speak louder than words.
Whisper 10y ago
Always be closing, always be nexting.
If you don't close, next. Doesn't matter if she's a cocktease or if you messed up. Either way, if you're not getting laid, move on.
The moment you make a serious mistake, you're in the red, and you're better off starting again with someone else, and a blank slate.
RedPillDad 10y ago
Damn that's good. Respect your resources. On the front end, push things sexually to stay out of the Friend-Zone. On the back end, use the swift sword to kill things off rather than floundering about trying to recover.
PlusGoody 10y ago
I like the program for action, as long as it is done immediately and with the maintenance of frame. Multiple evenings of thwarted escalation ain't good.
While it is better than drama-queen butt-hurt-itutude, "cutting off all contact" is still a bad breach of frame, as well as a wholly unnecessarily abandonment of option value. As long as she's taking the initiative, you keep asking for what you want. Let HER cut off contact if she's truly convinced you're only good for orbit and she won't give it you.
Fedora_Tipper_ 10y ago
Anyone have any good reads on escalating? Ive checked out the escalation ladder but I'd like to see other sources too
lonestandingone 10y ago
Sometimes it is funny to play this games with a girl, to be flirty and pretend nothing ever happened. Sometimes she has nice things to say, she is smart, and the flirty friendship is very nice. These cases are fine! Don't escalete too much, be cool. Other times the girl is very immature, insecure, needs validation all the time, and maybe we just want to fuck them. Then it is fine to escalate and cease the relationship, or to fuck them, depending on what they want.
PlanB_pedofile 10y ago
Rule#1 don't ever do for a girl that you wouldn't do for a guy.
2 if your purpose to be in her orbit is for sex, push for sex. If sex is unobtainable then be sure to accept your orbit position.
It's okay to be a woman's orbiter as long as you take sex off the table and agree to accept that she is fucking other guys and crying to you.
How to navigate being in someone's orbit? Simple, make sure your orbit is easy to break.
I'm in an orbit with my ex. It's a loose orbit but once in awhile I text her a what's up or she texts me. She asked me if I can burn some dvds for her. I said sure... thing is she never followed through to get me the dvds. After agreeing to do the task, I dropped it. if she wants it done she can text me arrangements. The beta me would have put way too much time and effort to get her dvds to burn. If she really wants them done that bad she can stop by my place to drop them off... she can even slide them under the door if I'm not there because I decide my orbit and I won't cancel my plans just to be a lap dog of an ex plate.
Men.... it's easy to become an orbiter. It just happens. But being a captain of your own ship can dictate what kind of orbit you are in. Do you control your orbit or does she? If sex is off the table and not happening, don't get caught up bu its gravity.
[deleted] 10y ago
[deleted]
Prattler26 10y ago
You don't need to be actually fucking, but a girl must show that she's attracted to you.
scarletspider3 10y ago
Just remember that u could be having sex with her & still just be an orbiter