All Girls Like Muscular Guys | TheRedPill

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Posted 10y ago in Red Pill Theory - Permalink - Locked - 1.7K Views

HalfPastTuna 10y ago

When girls think of muscular guys they immediately think of giant bodybuilders in competition shape because no one is capable of rational discourse with arguments to absurdity

The professional body builders are probably pretty repulsive (IMO as a guy)... but they set a benchmark for comparisons. A lot of young guys are like "I'm 225 and I'm huge!". No, you are normal sized for an adult. The guy who is 300 lbs is huge.

... to be fair, the 300 lb guys are probably not the most attractive to women.

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bassline1 10y ago

The professional body builders are on a shitload of roids, 225 natural with decent bodyfat% is huge.

Lilcheeks 10y ago

Obviously height variable matters too. 6'6" - 225 and 6' - 225 is a big difference.

Meatclap 10y ago

Roids, HGH, stims, all kinds of shit. Age, body type, routine, diet, sleep, sex life, mood, temperature, can only do so much. Then there are the juicers that did it only for a few cycles and swear they never cut corners.

Honestly, people buy it as much as they might buy a woman with a body like a plank and big balloon implants being "naturally well endowed".

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AgentSmith27 10y ago

Bodyfat does play a factor in how much weight is muscle, but with a typically athletic 15% bodyfat 225 is just muscular for a 6' adult... not "huge". Don't get me wrong, for young kids 16-21, 225 is really big... but for 25+ its not.

Bodyfat aside, the frames of the guys who are upper 200's and over 300 are just massive. I've always been in decent shape myself, but working out next to these guys makes you feel and look tiny. Its amazing how much they can just dwarf you in sheer volume. While 225 may be the typical "sports" physique, and still let you be very mobile, the most muscular men go far beyond this.

I guess it can all be relative, but if you work out at a non-chain gym (e.g. not LA fitness, planet fitness, etc), 6' 225 will not be anywhere near the high end of the spectrum. IMO, 210-225 is what a 6' adult male who lifts will naturally gravitate to. Its more or less the default build of someone who is in good muscular shape. While its true that 90% of people don't lift and just waste away, it doesn't really take away from the fact that the weight is normal for a healthy adult.

Guys who are naturally bigger framed, train really hard, or just juice (take steroids), will go well beyond that. The absolute biggest of them have all three of those qualities.

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dave_is_not_here 10y ago

but with a typically athletic 15% bodyfat 225 is just muscular for a 6' adult... not "huge".

In terms of muscle mass alone, it's just muscular, but factoring height and overall size, it's huge. I'm 6' 2", 175 and downright scrawny but people still refer to me as "a big dude" and, despite barely benching my bodyweight, I can intimidate all but the most confident shorter men; all because I have a strong frame (broad shoulders). I have to imagine that if I packed on 50lbs of mostly muscle I'd be pretty huge.

Height is important, but I could be underestimating the importance of my frame's size.

AgentSmith27 10y ago

Broad shoulders on a tall guy does make you look bigger... but height has a complicated effect on weight. If you gained 25-50 lbs of muscle, you probably wouldn't look the same as a 5' 8 guy (of the same weight) who added 50 lbs of muscle. The 5' 8 guy would look more like the body builders, while you'd just look muscular. Its because the same amount of muscle would be stretched over a larger area for you. The tiny guy would bulge out while you'd just be filling in.

The benefit of being tall though, is that the 5' 8 guy will look like a mini me if you gained 75-100 lbs of muscle. Meanwhile, the 5'8 guy has no chance of putting on anything more than those 50 lbs... Taller guys have much more headroom to grow and will dwarf smaller guys when they reach their max. It just may take longer to get there...

Indo_Mozes 10y ago

222 lbs = Normal sized for an adult

My sides

oldredder 10y ago

indeed. That's more than 60 pounds more than I weigh & no matter how much lifting I do my frame (skeleton) won't be holding that extra 60 pounds even if pure muscle. As it is I have the barrel-chested type look going on & since I used to do long-distance running those muscles never got smaller either. I would look absurd at 222 pounds. Nothing close to normal & I don't see that as average either across the population of 20-30 year old males.

AgentSmith27 10y ago

The average weight for an American male at 6 feet tall is 230 pounds, but this includes everyone regardless of fitness level. At 5' 9", the average weight is 194 lbs. Since muscle weighs more than fat, your maximum weight when fit can easily match or exceed your out of shape weight (except in extreme circumstances).

I'm a lean 230 (was 215 at 12% bodyfat, but I gained weight), and there are guys who are much bigger and more built than me at my job alone. Forget about at the gym. Some of the guys 6' 4 and up are like tree trunks approaching 300 lbs.

Young kids in high school and college often think 220 lbs is some massive size, but that is because their bodies usually haven't matured yet. It does also depend on your height as well, as I mentioned in a previous post. Smaller guys will look much more impressive at the same weight (so 220 would be huge for them). Taller guys will take a lot of extra muscle to get the same shape, but when they do they will just have a ton of more volume.

Indo_Mozes 10y ago

The annalogy Muscle > Fat in terms of weight is true but to put on the actually weight by lean muscle is sooooooooo much harder.

I may have a wrong image in my head though as I use Zyzz as a benchmark of what I find an impressive pysique... Zyzz was 1,86m at 100 kg's and lean. Now ofcourse maybe his genetics and low body fat percentage while cutting helped him look huge.

But now I am really interested in what your physisque looks like (12% is still quite high in terms of leanness and you may actually have more fat than you think) and not sure where you work but it probably isn't in an office.

Conclusion: 225 is ABSOLUTELY FUCKING NOT average... ;)

AgentSmith27 10y ago

The annalogy Muscle > Fat in terms of weight is true but to put on the actually weight by lean muscle is sooooooooo much harder.

Yes, it takes a lot of effort to put on muscle weight, and its typically harder to keep the fat off. Oddly enough, if you are one of those people who doesn't carry all of their weight in their stomachs, fat can make you fill more volume and look bigger (although not necessarily better). Some power lifters look absolutely massive, pushing 25%+ bodyfat. They have a lot of muscle and a good amount of fat... and it can make them look massive.

So, height and bodyfat make it more complicated. Obviously, if you have sub 3%-4% bodyfat, you will be more muscular at the same weight... but at a typical 15% athletic bodyfat will add 25 lbs or so to that guy who's 225/3%, and that would equate to someone being 250-260.

Most people are not bodybuilders. The things you have to do to get to low single digits can be pretty extreme. I've never even tried, but I've worked out alongside guys who do, and its probably not worth it for most people. It can also be a bit unhealthy...

But now I am really interested in what your physisque looks like (12% is still quite high in terms of leanness and you may actually have more fat than you think) and not sure where you work but it probably isn't in an office.

Well, you can easily have your bodyfat measured at almost any gym, although using a caliper is not really precise... but its good enough. 12% was pretty good to achieve naturally, or at least I think so. Its high if you want to be a bodybuilder, but I have no IFBB aspirations. Its harder now as I'm getting older, and only have time to work out 2-3 times a week. I think 15%-18% is where most people normally fall just living a healthy lifestyle, eating right, and lifting/exercising (consistently).

As far as what is average or not, at 6' 220-230 is the average weight in the US. Even at an "athletic" bodyfat, you'll look muscular and well built, but you won't look like a monster. With clothes on, you just look in shape and look like you have a fit physique.

You also should avoid comparisons with guys who juice - especially the bodybuilders who compete. Many of them take substances that enhance their appearance and swell. This makes them look big for their weight. Some of them are not even that strong, despite their size, for whatever reason.

Indo_Mozes 10y ago

Arnolds stats:

Height: 6'2"

Competition Weight: Around 235 lbs.

Now in your terms, he probably is average, I mean 220-230 is average for a guy that's 6' right? Arnie over here is 6'2, a full 2 inches longer. Now you tell me he looks average? Even though he's on the gear, a body that's lean should still be around that weight and then you look "average".

Here's the deal, steroids don't alter the muscle's appearance, it just makes it easier to gain and maintain. Arnie is huge and he needs test to maintain this level of muscle... If pro bodybuilders and bodybuilders with amazing physiques like Zyzz can't even aquire this type of physique without steroids, you can't tell me 220 at 6' lean is average.

Now about me: I have difficulty reaching 85kgs (given that I've been hungry skeleton mode for a bigger part of my life) and I'm 6'1 but way more muscular than most guys of my height and age. My clothes fit better, my arms fill sleeves, I have a better posture and chicks at the beach turn heads! I just can't imagine what you look like at 100kg's and shorter than me!

*Conclusion A body that's 6' and 225 lbs lean is huge bro!**

(Looking back I should have used Frank Zane but you get my point)

AgentSmith27 10y ago

I thought I'd add something... I saw this a couple pages down from the front page

Its a progress pic of a guy who's down to 260 lbs.
http://i.imgur.com/uDy5Gov.jpg

He still has a bit of body fat, but he is probably closer to a "normal" guy. He can go down to 240, look pretty good with his shirt off, and he's not going to look anything like Arnold.

AgentSmith27 10y ago

Again, this is an unrealistic comparison. You can't compare juiced up professional bodybuilders to normal people. Their entire training is around making their bodies as big as possible (without any regard for strength or natural fitness), and compete with the lowest body fat possible for human beings.

If we even take the inflation oriented steroids out of the equation, Arnold was probably 260+ outside of competition months. You can be certain he wasn't "fat" either. Now, that is huge (even if he may not have actually been 6'2), and closer to what a normal gym rat would be with that muscle mass. Your average guy (like me), working out at the gym, is never going on stage, and will likely never go into single digit body fat. You can't use these people as a norm for comparison because everything is completely different than you or I just lifting at the gym.

Now about me: I have difficulty reaching 85kgs (given that I've been hungry skeleton mode for a bigger part of my life) and I'm 6'1 but way more muscular than most guys of my height and age. My clothes fit better, my arms fill sleeves, I have a better posture and chicks at the beach turn heads! I just can't imagine what you look like at 100kg's and shorter than me!

I was 6' 185 lbs in high school, and I was relatively skinny and string bean 'ish compared to myself now. I'm sure muscle and bone density matter, but I've seen enough people who are just like me (and many way bigger & heavier than me) to know I'm no anomaly. Its to the point where hitting the gym makes me feel small, although the gym is probably not a good example of the population at large.

oldredder 10y ago

no: Arnie once was Mister Universe.

And now you're calling that average.

Fail. It isn't average.

AgentSmith27 10y ago

go to /r/progresspics or even /r/fitness . The Arnold, roided 225, is nothing like a natural and normal guy 225

Indo_Mozes 10y ago

You see, here's the whole deal... You start to make exceptions and be selective on what does make connections (texas sharpshooter fallacy)

If you're on steroids 225 lbs suddenly is not huge "because: Steroids am i rite"
If you train without any regard of strength or "natural fitness" (what ever that is), your gains are worth "less"
260+ is closer to what a normal gym rat is... A dude of 260, in the average gym is fat as fuck mate (and thus not considered lean).
Single digit bodyfat is unatainable for us therefore 225 lbs completely lean is also unaintainable and should be disregarded

I think you as well as the people you work with all carry much more fat than you actually realise bro. Why not post some pics mate? We can help this whole thing out of this world right now if you can give me an picture of a kid/adult who is 225 at 6' (12% bodyfat) and considered "average". (PRO TIP: You won't find any)

AgentSmith27 10y ago

You see, here's the whole deal... You start to make exceptions and be selective on what does make connections

You are the one making exceptions, and by now you probably realize it. You are focusing on one very specific group of people who look the biggest for their weight, for a variety of reasons.

People like Ronnie Coleman, Arnold, Jay Cutler... they are freaks genetically, and on top of that they took banned substances that most people won't take. The pictures they pose in are taken after they purposely swell their muscles with a pre-shoot workout routine, and then they flex for the camera. Nothing about what we see from these people are typical in any way.

You are cherry picking your examples, and you know it. Normal 220 lb guys with 15% body fat look muscular and in shape - but NOT huge. Guys at 6' 225 with higher body fats (who aren't obese) look like normal/average people. That's the truth for 95% of the people.

If we are talking generalizations, I'm going to stick with the one that applies to the majority of people... not just genetic freaks who are on a ton of muscle enhancing drugs - specfiically ones for increasing size.

Personally, I sense that your objection has more to do with yourself. If 225 isn't "huge", then 185 can't be "big". If 225 is a normal weight, then 185 become inadequate or small.

I can actually relate to this, because as I said in high school I was 185 and small. The fact is that even after gaining 30+ lbs and lowering my body fat, I still couldn't match the now 6'3 270 guy who was the captain of the football team. That guy actually played pro arena football, and you know what? He was "huge" but he still never looked anything like Arnold did.

Anyways, I saw that you used meters before... maybe its a difference between countries. Are you British? When I went there, the men weren't in as good of a muscular shape (generally smaller). Maybe it has something to do with "bulking up" sports being more popular in the USA (football, HS wrestling, roided up baseball, etc).

[deleted] 10y ago

Girls like AF to be muscular, and BB to be non-muscular because that's their meal ticket and the less muscular the BB the less options he has.

dave_is_not_here 10y ago

"No, no, no baaaby, don't start lifting, I like your man-tits, that's why I never, ever touch your body, just let you touch mine."

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NPIF 10y ago

You should absolutely take it to the next level in your training if you haven't yet. It's amazing what dedicating yourself to bodybuilding does for your entire life. Not only do you stop caring about oneitis (because you know another plate is right around the corner) but you also just generally feel better. As a byproduct your confidence just skyrockets and I generally feel like I can do anything. 5'11, 197@ 9%

-Slutlord-Fascist- 10y ago

A woman who says she doesn't like muscular guys is a woman who knows she can't attract them. It's a case of sour grapes.

[deleted] 10y ago

TRP in even the most gender bending counter-culture movie of the last century:

In the Rocky Horror Picture Show, Frankenfurter introduces Rocky to Brad and Janet. Janet looks at Brad (specifically looks at her beta provider) and says, "I don't like a man with too many muscles."

That same night, she's fucking Rocky in the lab while Brad gets seduced by Frankenfurter. Brad is so beta he turns gay in the presence of Frankenfurter's enormous sexual confidence.

However, there is some truth in the "I don't like a man with too many muscles" as portrayed by Colombia and Eddy. Eddy is a fat guy on a motorcycle, but he displays such high value that she can ignore physical attraction for the tingles that true high value confidence can command.

The moral? You don't need muscles, but they will get you laid.

anonlymouse 10y ago

'Cause Victoria Beckham totally has sour grapes right?

Every girl knows who David Beckham is. Mention some muscular guy and they'll say "who?"

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southernmost 10y ago

Yeah, his quads and glutes aren't ripped at all. /s

garlicextract 10y ago

David Beckham has muscles ya dumb ass. Have you seen soccer players in real life? they are cut/ripped

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-Slutlord-Fascist- 10y ago

David Beckham is a celebrity. Why are you trying to compare a celebrity to some meathead at the gym? Is it because you're retarded?

bassline1 10y ago

Yeah, and his face is ugly as sin, too. /s (no homo)

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anonlymouse 10y ago

Nope, you are.

The most popular UFC fighter among women, based on attractiveness, is Rich Franklin, and now that he's retired you don't hear that much about how a fighter is hot. Compared to other fighters with the same level of alphaness, earnings and celebrity status, he's the one they like the most. More muscular fighters didn't get noticed.

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-Slutlord-Fascist- 10y ago

Rich Franklin is cut.

Quit the autism. "Women who say they don't like muscular guys are ugly" does not mean that pretty women drool over MMA fighters.

anonlymouse 10y ago

And he could be bigger, in fact he was. He started having women fawn over him after dropping from LHW to MW. There is such a thing as too much muscle, it's not just diminishing returns, but a decrease in attractiveness. Sure, you're still OK as you bulk up, for a while, but if you want to optimise your attractiveness, you stop at a certain point.

There's a Goldilocks zone that guys like Beckham and Hiddleston are in. Sure, Chris Pratt is still hot to women and gets lots of attention, but he's not as hot.

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Redpiller456 10y ago

Sure, Chris Pratt is still hot to women and gets lots of attention, but he's not as hot.

I don't know about this one because Chris Pratt isn't even huge muscular wise. I think what happened here is disillusionment. Women adored Pratt's happy go lucky personality and chubby loser body. It feeds into the BB mentality, with Pratt exhibiting an endearing aloof personality that translated well to the "stick-around" non-intimidating type of guy. To a lot of women, that body type coupled with that personality was a safe bet and gave off the impression of slight emotional vulnerability, and most importantly of all, an image that seemed obtainable.

Then Pratt started building a kick ass body and went from BB->AF. Women were upset because now he redefined himself to be a part of the unobtainable fantasy category, with the likes of other celebrities, such as Ryan Gosling. It was almost like overnight he became way out of every woman's league and that's why women say he's not as hot (but what women say and do are completely different things).

Overall, women fucking hate it when men go from BB -> AF.

anonlymouse 10y ago

I don't know about this one because Chris Pratt isn't even huge muscular wise.

Women have different standards. They want a lot slimmer than men do. They also think they need to be slimmer than we think. It's the same problem both have - men think they need to be bigger than they actually need to be to be attractive to women and women think they need to be smaller than they actually need to be to be attractive to men.

exit_sandman 10y ago

My fitness decisions were based on a series of embarrassingly inaccurate myths, including the notion that endurance training was best for my “overall health” and— more importantly— that most girls “didn’t really like muscular guys” anyway.

This, so much.

It's probably the most astonishing and successful lie about what constitutes attractiveness. One would assume that it's quite logical that the appearance of superior physical strength would be attractive to a woman, and yet many opinion leaders (sour grapes-women as well as scrawny guys) managed to convince most people that bulking up isn't actually that desirable.

Reminds me about my time in high school - the girl who was most vocal with her opinion on musclular builds (she considered them repulsive) was the least attractive and most feminist-minded one. Girls who actually owned up to their attraction usually only did so behind closed doors and in presence of guys who were lifting (instead of updating the guys who refused to lift that they were shooting themselves in the foot).

redpillbanana 10y ago

Posted in another thread:

Don't listen to what women say they want - women aren't going to be kicking jacked guys out of bed anytime soon. I've noticed a lot of different ethnicities of women say that they like the ottermode body best, but I'm quite sure it isn't true.

When I bulked up, I noticed a large change in women's behavior towards me. My favorite was when a woman squeezed my bicep and started giggling. Men changed their behavior as well - I definitely felt like my status was elevated in their eyes.

The bigger I got, the more female attention I seemed to receive, and I got many random comments like "you must be an athlete" - and I'm not even that big. (I do wear fitted shirts, though - very important.)

One woman I'm seeing actually told me that I had "enough muscles" at one point and said I didn't have to lift anymore. Yeah, right. I've gotten bigger since then, and she doesn't seem to be complaining.

I remember reading a list of "the things you will never hear", and one of those things was something like, "Man, once I hit that 315 pound bench press, suddenly the women stopped paying attention to me."

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doneinseconds 10y ago

can you explain otter build? Many thanks!

redpillbanana 10y ago

This is a decent guide: https://i.imgur.com/aKtBI.jpg

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redpillbanana 10y ago

In the West, you're absolutely right. Ottermode is way better than being overweight or skinnyfat.

In less-developed countries, 80% of guys are ottermode.

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redpillbanana 10y ago

I can already tell that you are a great conversationalist.

The35thVitamin 10y ago

So what would you have said in his position, o master of social interaction?

redpillbanana 10y ago

Either something interesting/new/funny or nothing at all.

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The35thVitamin 10y ago

Could you perhaps provide a specific example of what you feel qualifies as "good conversation" in this context? I'm trying to learn how to be better at speaking to people.

[deleted] 10y ago

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Sandkasten 10y ago

A good read is Pook's post "What Every Skinny Guy Should Know", where he describes the reactions and differences as he got more muscular.

What Every Skinny Guy Should Know

Smart, fun, and interesting. So why is it that all the beautiful women always seem out of your grasp?

Why!? You may even be athletic. You can do karate, can run super fast around the track, along with other things. So why does it seem you can get the average to cute girls but the very attractive women seem out of your reach?

What is holding you back is that you are skinny.

“But I like being skinny,” you say. “Look at all those fat people!” Indeed. “Those guys who go to the gym and all are just idiots.”

There was an article in the Atlantic Constitution that said how average women marry skinny guys over big guys. It also said... why am I parroting? Let the article speak for itself:

Quote:

"When women are choosing mates - except for very attractive women -- they're facing a tradeoff of choosing a guy who's very sexy or one who will stick around and treat them well," he added.

It is self-evident that beautiful women end up with the masculine men, in other words, NOT skinny guys like you.

I know... I can hear what the objections you’re saying... because I used to make them. It seemed so ‘jock like’ and is ‘below you’.

I have gained over 50+ pounds of muscle mass. There is a saying that when skinny guys get big, when they look in the mirror, they still see the skinny guy. This is true, as my ‘skinny mind’ hasn’t yet caught up with my body.

Let me tell you of the change of reactions I got from the women:

For your reading pleasure,

Fat Girl = Means a big girl that requires an elephant gun.

Ugly Girl = In the same category as Fat Girl. These girls may not be fat, but it hurts to look at them.

Average Girl = They don’t hurt your eyes, but they aren’t amazing enough to attract your eyes. Average girls are the plain Janes.

Cute Girls = Often, they are innocent average girls whose innocence makes them cute. They are a bit picky about who they end up with as they are inexperienced.

Very Attractive = Great curves, long luscious hair, nice everything. These women know they are very attractive and sometimes narcissistically wear outfits to reflect it.

Very Beautiful = Bombshell. Every guy will notice this girl and stare and gawk. You know one of these women are around by seeing the satellites of boys trying to be ‘friends’ with them. Guys fear these magnificent creatures.

155

I started out around 155 pounds at 6’3 height. This meant that I was very skinny. I was also considered a nice looking guy. Women loved me being tall.

At this point, I had to deal with a lot of fat chicks hitting on me. These girls were BIG and I wanted nothing to do with them. Ugly girls also would come to me. This was me not doing anything. This was what my body was attracting all alone. If I wanted to get a cuter girl, I had to work for it.

I have problems talking to women, not because I am scared or boring, but because I sense the women think I am ‘below’ them. And the truth is that they do.

I date average women.

165

Already, things have changed. The fat/ugly women still go for me but they don’t think I’m as easy. They want to enter oneitis with me. The ‘unworthy’ girls category would now all be staring at me. To the beautiful women, I’m just a typical guy. Cute girls now enjoy talking to me.

I still date average women and now some cute women

175

“You are looking very good,” my older female manager told me. The fat/ugly women no longer hit on me (thank goodness!) and people (out of the blue) are asking why I don’t have a girlfriend. Average girls are beginning to stare.

I date only cute women with some very attractive ones mixed in.

185

Average girls are now hitting on me. Very attractive women are checking me out. At this stage, every woman is happy to talk to me. They all secretly wonder if I’m gay.

I date more very attractive women but still have the cute ones.

195

OK, when you don’t have a girlfriend at this stage, the ladies will whisper, “Is he gay?” all the time. One girl got bold about it and asked me point blankly, “Pook, you are cute and all. So why don’t you have a girlfriend?” I was stunned by her bluntness (rare among women).

Average women consider me out of their league. Cute ones try to become my ‘friend’.

I date only very attractive women. Beautiful women are still a bit of an anomalie.

205

When you get to this stage, something very strange happens. All the attention and staring women gave you is gone (mostly). Ugly/Fat women will despise you as will the average women. Most girls will be scared of you (cute girls, very attractive girls)

Let me give you some examples. One Very Beautiful girl was in several of my classes. I start talking to her and she has plenty of time to leave. But she doesn’t... she stays to keep talking to me. The girls now notice me, but are a bit scared to talk and act around me.

One cute girl is like a leech to me in one of my classes. She must sit right next to me, must ‘borrow my notes’, must talk to me 20 minutes after class everyday...

One Very Beautiful woman was a fitness instructor at my gym (think ‘well muscled’ with nice strong legs (those strong thighs come in handy with her dealings with the Pook-man!)). Every time I saw this girl, she always had a ‘satellite’ boy around her. Who does she end up with? Me.

Or the ultimate example: there was a girl I was in oneitis that drove me to this webpage. As I got bigger, her reactions to me changed as well. At 155, I was ‘average’. At 175, she knew something was up. I got her at 195.

Now I date some Very Attractive women but most are Very Beautiful Women.

I know many of you guys are saying the same thing, “I get beautiful women too and I am skinny!” But the thing is, all these examples here is based on attraction on the body alone. I am NOT working to get these women. My body is doing 99% of the attracting. I can just be a statue and get a response. (But of course, you have to take action. This is based on doing zilch.)

Rather than work hard to get one woman, why not work hard on yourself and get all the women? I don’t work hard to get women, I work hard on my dreams which gets the women automatically.

Like the article says on top, only the extremely beautiful women will risk being with a hunk like you. If you want a girl with a great body, you ought to work on your own body.

Coming from a skinny guy, being big is a totally different world. The worst thing is finding out how people really viewed the old you. People now openly insult my past skinny self and it hurts. It hurts because I never knew they had thought that way of me. Clothes no longer hang on my body properly, but I look terrific naked (I am saying this for the mental imagery of our lovely lady readers).

Big guys are allowed to get away with more things. I allowed to be cruder, to be bolder, to take advantage of women more (I’m serious!), and so on. You can also be stupid as well. My biggest problem is women only wanting me for sex (no, this is not a joke. Yes, it is a problem). You try to find a girl that fits your life and all she is interested in is your body! It is like getting rich and putting up with gold diggers.

So how do you go from being skinny guy to brawny guy? There is a lot of information on the Internet. Diesel’s Guide to Bulking Up threads in the Health Forum is a start. For myself, I used Anthony Ellis’s program. 30lbs in 3 months, no joke. Though, for most people beginning, it will be like 30lbs in 4-5 months. The big problem with fitness is that there are so many different opinions. Many of them are wrong and will waste your time (including trainers). What I loved about Ellis’s program was that it cut all the hype and came up with very in-depth information. It works.

However, the risk with body building is that it can turn into a highly narcissist womb. I often think the mirrors in the gyms are not so much to perfect the form, but to perfect the ego. The risk is that you will try to become perfect and we all know that perfect is boring.

Now for a note to the skinny guys who are successful with women. They will, no doubt, post replies to challenge the relevancy of this post. Know that the central... thrust... of the post is not a bettering of image. It is an increase of testosterone. If you are naturally skinny, and are at a higher muscle mass, your body will continually be at a high state of testosterone building and rebuilding muscle mass just to stay the same. High rates of testosterone affects not only your actions, I believe women can sniff it out. So take a guy, stuffed with testosterone, and push him into a room full of lovely young ladies. He doesn’t speak a word. He won’t have to. The women will go to him automatically.

Such is the power of testosterone. Such is the power of sexuality.

H4ppenSt4nce 10y ago

Good read for sure. I've gone from 155 to 185 over the past two years (also 6'3") and I can vouch for quite a bit of this. Especially the fat chicks dropping off around 175.

drimadethistocomment 10y ago

I'm currently gaining weight. Sadly I started at 140. Now I'm 150. I cannot wait for fat chicks to stop talking to me.

edit: I guess I should mention I'm only 5'10

garlicextract 10y ago

Pook is blessed to be 6'3". You don't get these reactions when you're over half a foot shorter probably.

Sandkasten 10y ago

You are right, his height has a significant effect. Maybe not these reactions but you'll get positive reactions with a more athletic/ripped look.

[deleted] 10y ago

Women were approaching him before he even started lifting. He is no average guy that's for sure.

[deleted] 10y ago

I'm 5'5" so this doesn't apply to me.

garlicextract 10y ago

I'm about that height too, that's my point.

bsutansalt 10y ago

Tell me that when you bench 300lbs and squat 400lbs. You'll see.

Sandkasten 10y ago

It affects everybody. Look at Kevin Hart. You know why we look better in suits, because suits are designed to make men seem broader in the shoulders. It is a a very masculine trait and a good indicator of health and strength. The “V” taper is created by broad shoulders and a narrow waist. This is something women are instinctively attracted to. It is in their genes.

bsutansalt 10y ago

Maybe not the same reactions, but the spread in being equivalently built is comparable.

garlicextract 10y ago

What is the point if me at 5'6", when I get to the equivalent built-ness of Pook at 195-205, being treated like Pook when he was a 155lb stick? Even then he had "they loved me being tall" going for him. I think a lot of girls would choose a skinny as a stick tallfuck over a 5'6" incredible-physique guy.

Prattler26 10y ago

Please repost your commend as a separate post! Great read!

Similar height, 220 lb at the moment, but need to drop at least 10 lb of fat. Can confirm everything.

I made most of my body changes at home while slowly recovering from a leg trauma. The effects are amazing.. Women stare at me like never before, people move out of the way. And I don't blame them - I'd do the same, too. I like what I see in the mirror, not even there yet, but already quite miraculous.

All this is shocking to me, because I'm the same nice awkward geek inside, but I'm sure I'll manage it with time.

The amazing part: it wasn't that hard for me to bulk up, I just always assumed women wouldn't like that - boy was that a lie!

Sandkasten 10y ago

I recommend you to read the rest of his stuff. http://www.djbible.classicalgasemissions.com/book_of_pook.pdf

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eccentricrealist 10y ago

When I was in my early teens the girls would tell me not to lift so much or I would be huge and gross and look gay. Nice gay guys those girls are banging, huh?

[deleted] 10y ago

Muscles will get you laid.

Have no doubt about that.

However, to say that all girls like muscular guys is such a steaming pile of bullshit.

A lot are seriously into muscle and will get wet at the thought of it.

A lot are somewhat into it, but it isnt top of their list, perhaps facial aesthetics are more important

And some, a sizeable minority which is growing particularly among younger women, wont give a muscular guy the time of day.

And these arent landwhales who couldnt achieve him anyway, these are smoking hot 17-21 year olds primarily.

dave_is_not_here 10y ago

You forgot hipster bitches. Hipster bitches love the "strung out scrawny" look.

Nothing pisses Daddy off more than a strung out boyfriend.

[deleted] 10y ago

Aye I had them in mind also

dave_is_not_here 10y ago

I had one that told me one of those "ex boyfriend stories" about her hipster joke ex: the chump would shave himself, put on lingerie and then they'd post an ad online looking for a black guy to fuck them both. Guy loved it. She just thought it was hilarious. Guy was loaded, bought her a huge lingerie collection. I enjoyed it alot.

lightfire409 10y ago

And some, a sizeable minority which is growing particularly among younger women, wont give a muscular guy the time of day.

Where are you? I don't see that happening over here on the US east coast.

[deleted] 10y ago

England.

Primarily in the north east but ive lived all over the country.

They tend to be the more "Fashionable" types, often working in media, journalism, music or other arty type industries, and they favor incredibly skinny, but also incredibly low body fat, men.

They still aren't going to go for a skinnyfat loser, but they aren't interested in a big guy.

They tend to grow out of it later in life in my experience. But if you want to fuck college girls in England, being a skinny runt isn't a bad strategy.

I still lift, i cant be skinny with my skeletal frame, so i run muscles game and i run it very well. I have no complaints.

But to pretend that there aren't significant numbers of women who are effectively closed off to me purely BECAUSE of the muscle would be self delusion.

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a_tes_soulhaits 10y ago

Yep, thats true in the north of England, I don't think they're turned off though I just think the approach is harder because you're automatically a threat, I often wonder if there isn't some cultural connection with muscle= lower class criminal/out of work up north. Still Social hierarchy displays will work wonders and once you're out of uni you can just eat them up with your build.

[deleted] 10y ago

Maybe.

My own experience has been. "I'm not into muscley guys"... "Your muscles are omg I fucking love how strong you are".

My body type is more like this.

I'm leaning down now by about 15% maybe. It's less effort to maintain that weight and body fat and I think it will be more attractive at first glance like you say.

Silverbacked 10y ago

And this is why

[deleted] 10y ago

Tbh by the standards of the runts im talking about those are actually fairly muscular dudes.

Anderfail 10y ago

It's because you live in Europe where every guy looks like a twink if he's not fat. The women literally have nothing to compare it it to because no one does it. A man who is shredded AND cares about fashion will always get more attention than a man who looks like a marathon runner and cares about fashion.

topspeedj 10y ago

Here in the UK people aren't nearly as clued up on diet and fitness as some Americans I met at university and elsewhere. The default thing overweight people do here to get into shape is jogging and other forms of ineffective low-resistance cardio, because that's what everyone else does, and drink loads of fruit smoothies and grainy cereals, so they end up taking in even more carbohydrates and of an even higher glycemic index variety than before.

If they lowered their carbohydrate intake and tried some higher-intensity stuff like lifting weights or fast swimming, they'd get results. Although I can count on my two hands the number of people I know who are clued up about carbohydrates. Additionally these overweight people convince themselves that if they do high-intensity exercise they'll 'have a heart attack', so they never do anything remotely effective.

I've noticed this a bit with women as well. Most will only ever do forms of exercise or diet that other women are doing, even if logically it makes no sense and if it's totally ineffective for losing weight (jogging, low resistance cardio again). I convinced my ex to try keto and lift heavy weights when we were in a LTR and she lost 6kg of water and fat in just over a month. She became really hot and none of her friends believed her when she told them how she did it. Pure arrogance on their end.

[deleted] 10y ago

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topspeedj 10y ago

Yeah, I suppose it's just a huge country so you're gonna get a big range.

Also most British people aren't nearly as intelligent as you might think.

TheRealMewt 10y ago

Trust me, there is a degree of variance to what girls like in "muscular guys". There's big but not ridiculously huge. There's cut but not disgustingly veiny with striations for every single muscle fiber in your body. It's just a matter of not going beyond the point of no return, and if you're not a competing bodybuilder there's no reason why you should ever cross into that threshold.

FortunateBum 10y ago

I want to clear things up for you guys.

Women don't care about size. What they care about is definition. Low body fat percentage.

[deleted] 10y ago

I'm not convinced about this. Muscles to women are (probably) like tits are to us. They're attention grabbing, desirable, amusing and fun to play with. But bigger are not always better.

whatsazipper 10y ago

They do.

Don't listen to what any of them say to the contrary. (You don't listen to women anyway)

You'll have the best sex with women if you can turn them on through muscularity. It makes them horny as fuck. That raw primal attraction means plenty of marathon sex.

[deleted] 10y ago

muscles never go out of style

beware_the_syllogism 10y ago

With exceptions to the rule this is true, and somewhat annoying. There are lots of guys in the 250 lb range at my gym and they attract women left and right. I did MMA (few guys from that gym made it to the pro circuit or were state ranked wrestlers) and now do strength training. Despite the fact that I am much stronger than the big guys at the gym doesn't mean anything. I perform better around 185 lbs. It's all about the showy muscles. I went out with a group of these guys and women were all about them. When one guy got a flat on his Mercedes they weren't able to get the lug nuts off...so I had to do it. Multiple times I'm reminded that "you are stronger than us be we look prettier" damn perception = reality.

rmwj1956 10y ago

This isn't true. I knew a woman who was only attracted to tall, slender guys and she was close to beautiful. Another liked bald guys - and married one. One told me she liked guys who looked like Peter Noone of Herman and the Hermits (who were popular before she was born) and she married a guy who looked like him. So don't delude yourself that all girls like muscular guys.

[deleted] 10y ago

It isn't muscles, it's height. Most girls don't mind muscles, but being taller than her is a requirement.

wheyapartment 10y ago

I seriously doubt that. it's just rationalization. If you are good looking in the standard sense or if you have a friend who is good looking in the standard sense, you'll quickly see women spout a lot of bullshit.

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Bukkaking 10y ago

This is not necessarily true and is largely a cultural thing.

In East Asian society being stocky or muscular is a sign of low social value and being of the laborer class. Girls on that continent tend to prefer men who are thin as it is a sign of being upper class and privileged.