I’ll chat about this point with an anecdote rather than a bunch of dry theory, because stories are way more interesting than lectures, and I’m about the farthest thing from a professor on the planet.
Back in my pre-Red Pill days, about once every month or two, my wife would snidely declare to me that I only want her for sex. This insidious and offensive declaration always coincided with the one time every month or two that I would ask for sex. Because we were having sex about once every 1-2 months. The ritual would go that after my attempts at advances and escalation got nowhere for 59 days, I would finally break down and actually talk about sex (because open communication is the key to a great relationship!) That conversation was immediately met with defensive snarking.
How dare I imply, by the mere act of asking for something, that my wife is imperfect? I am a mirror, after all. And every time my wife asked me to do anything, it was never a request. It was a message, always delivered with a choice of tone and words that said: “Why haven’t you done this thing you should have known to do already? Why am I even having to lower myself to ask you to do this at all? You’re not worth a shit.” My wife never asked me to do anything. She accused me of being a loser, under the guise of a polite request, and when confronted about this would always respond, “What? I was just asking you to X. Why are you getting so defensive? Feeling guilty?”
So naturally, whenever I asked my wife for something, no matter how innocently I meant my request, what she heard was a reflection of her own thoughts: “You’re not doing something you should be doing unasked.” And because that statement (which the old, beta me never meant) was 100% true, those unsaid words stung her even more. She knew she was supposed to have sex with her husband and wasn’t, and my asking for sex shone a light on her failings.
Thus, an innocent question from an innocent beta husband provoked an astounding, almost suspicious amount of defensiveness. “We haven’t had sex in two months” was unfailingly met with, “I’m always tired because you never do X, Y and Z and everything you do its always half-assed because you’re such a selfish loser, then I have to do everything myself! And I don’t feel like having sex with a selfish loser! All you ever talk about is sex! You only want me for sex!”
Even beta-me from years ago was taken aback by that statement. Because beta-me was still a highly educated nerd, and as a nerd, he knew that 1 divided by 60 is less than 2 percent of the time, and that words like “all” and “only” used in that context really didn’t apply to something that happened less than 2 percent of the time. Beta-me also understood that going to work every day, making 80% of the family income, cooking every meal, doing the laundry, paying for maid service, and handling a good chunk of the childcare duties made statements such as “I do everything” from his wife seem like a little bit of an exaggeration.
So instead of saying, “No, baby! Don’t say that! I love you for [insert validation here] and it’s not about sex at all! And by the way, I’m a supplicating loser not worthy of respect or fucking, as evidenced by the fact that I don’t even have the balls to stand up to such a blatant falsehood for fear of angering you!” Beta-me said, “Wait a second. I’m pissed off here. Not about you accusing me of wanting sex, because wanting sex is normal. But because you’re essentially calling me an idiot. We never have sex. Like once in forever. If I only want you for sex, then what you’re saying is that I’m so fucking stupid that I don’t realize that we never have sex, and that I’m so fucking out of touch that I think this is normal. Or that I’m such a loser that I think the once in forever that we do have sex is the best I can do. You know what? Forget it. I don’t want to have sex after all.”
Fifteen minutes later, my wife had cooled down and said, “It’s fine. If you want to have sex, we can have sex,” in a very resigned tone of voice, making it clear that she was making a great sacrifice to do me this incredible favor. That got me all pissed off again. I told her to fuck off and that I wasn’t turned on by the idea of having sex with someone who just called me a loser five minutes ago. Not the most “alpha” of replies, but it got the message across. She stormed out of the room, tears in her eyes, slammed the door, and slept on the couch for three or four days after that, thinking she was teaching me a lesson. It was strange, though. I slept really, really well that night. I don’t think I’d ever rejected my wife before. I’d probably never been that honest with her before either. Not really.
While I was typing this bullshit last night, intending to make a more generic point about shit tests, Rollo posted a new article describing the difficulty women experience in separating their worth as a human being from their sexual worth that seemed to at least partially apply here. I say partially because my story illustrates a seeming contradiction. On one hand, rejecting my wife sexually made her feel worthless, not just as a sex object, but as a person. On the other hand, the very thing she accused me of was only valuing her for sex while neglecting her value as a person. However, this contradiction is an illusion if you think about basic Red Pill 101: pay attention to a woman’s behavior, never her words.
“You only want me for sex” is a shit test. Men aren’t supposed to ask for sex. Ever. They’re supposed to just be attractive so that women want to have sex with them, without them having to negotiate for it. The sex is supposed to “just happen.” When a beta husband asks his wife for sex, however innocent the request, what the woman hears is two things: 1) “I am a loser, unworthy of sex;” and 2) “You are sexually failing me.” She responds to both of these statements you unwittingly made in one fell swoop. She doesn’t want to have sex with you, because you’re a loser, so she attempts to shame you for asking by accusing you of not valuing her as a human, only as a sex object. But at the same time, when you indicate that she’s sexually failing you, she experiences this not just as an attack on her value as a sex object, but as an attack on her very value as a person. You indicate that she is failing you sexually, and she responds by defending her personal value, not her sexual value.
Today, whenever my wife screeches that I only want her for sex, I calmly respond that I also appreciate her carting our daughter around and keeping the house clean, so “only” is a bad choice of words. But yes, I definitely want her for sex. She storms off in a huff without fail every time. I then set a reminder in my cell phone to beep at me in 48 hours. Every time we’re having sex, she stops and asks, “What’s that beeping?”
KyfhoMyoba 10y ago
I must confess, when I read of your anger and subsequent rejection of her when your wife reluctantly offered sacrificial sex, I got a bit of a semi.
bleontow 10y ago
Sorry, but this article was the biggest waste of time to read. I will never get that time back in my life. Thanks for that. Suit up and tell her to STFU.
magx01 10y ago
"I’ll chat about this point with an anecdote rather than a bunch of dry theory, because stories are way more interesting than lectures, and I’m about the farthest thing from a professor on the planet."
ie "I'm about to entertain you, but just so you know- I'm also really smart"
RobGuy55 10y ago
I have never been married, but why not just take sex from her? My last girlfriend frequently said "no" when I started working her for sex. That didn't stop me. I got top of her, made out with her more, grinded on her vagina more, and kept playing with it through her shorts. Eventually her clothes were off and we were getting it on. When we first started dating, we were doing this routine and I said "okay, no sex" and laid down on the other side of the bed. Right when I did that she started taking taking off her jeans. I think she liked the game. Getting your SO all hot and bothered and taking sex from her is alpha. Asking your SO for sex is beta.
wavescrashing 10y ago
Indian wives have this habit of saying "I'll give you sex". It's like a dog being thrown a bone.
Meglomaniac 10y ago
"If all you have to offer is sex.. then yes"
[deleted] 10y ago
Absolutely bulletproof response.
Trotted it out a few times, and its never failed me yet.
[deleted] 10y ago
I fucking love TRP. Being able to throw that phrase back at a shit test is what 95% of guys will never experience.
[deleted] 10y ago
It just makes me glad I'm not married.
[deleted] 10y ago
Well, you dont have to be, you can do whatever the fuck you want! You are a ship in the ocean without a map or a course, and you have the compass of rationality and evidance to guide you to whatever you want. You have a whole world to explore!
My girlfriend gives me tons of great sex, she even lets me get a blowjob whenever I ask as long as I dont abuse that privilage, but occasionally she will get defensive and emotional over random things like all women do. Last time it was because she came over without asking first, was doing her own thing on her phone at my place, so I started watching a shitty Shwartznegger movie she didnt like, and she felt oppressed like I didnt care about her feelings. She starts crying and locks herself in my room. Recognizing the irrationality of this and that she is basically acting like a child with a tantrum rather than an adult is the key to passing this shit test. I stay grounded for a few hours, let her pout for the rest of the night on the couch, and then she comes back to me and THANKS me for being so supportive and emotionally stable! We then proceed with a banging marathon of great sex!
Before trp I wouldnt have even been able to come up with this shit as a satire. It sounds so ridiculous and contrary to everything I was taught about women. I learned "Buy them stuff and treat them like a lady.", and I was a sad lonely virgin while doing just that. Fuck that, treat them like an equal and dont let them get away bullshit you wouldnt tollerate from your friends just because they are pretty.
Ambiguousdude 10y ago
Got to remember that last part
Assaultman67 10y ago
I want to upvote this statement a thousand times.
[deleted] 10y ago
I heard "dont put the pussy on the pedastal" before, but never internalized it untill after choking on and swallowing a few red pills.
[deleted] 10y ago
I think you may be wrong about that last part. The female in a LTR shouldn't be your equal. In another analogy I've heard it explained as you are the captain and she is your first mate; there's only room for one captain on this ship.
Women aren't looking for their equal. They're looking for someone to take the lead.
[deleted] 10y ago
That's entirely subjective. You still treat your first mate like an equal, you just get to have the final say or veto.
[deleted] 10y ago
Thanks for the explanation, I was about to ask before your edit.
I don't really know because my longest LTR was five years, and that's ending in divorce. I treated her like an equal and many times let her have the say so. I'm still trying to learn from my mistakes.
iggybdawg 10y ago
My wife sometimes will get angry at me over something in the car and will sit and sulk, steaming with rage. I used to fight it head on with intense logic, but the reaction was as if I had poured gasoline onto a camp fire: exploding fireballs!
Now, I just park and exit the car, and act like nothing happened. Within a minute or two, she comes running, apologizing for getting too upset.
[deleted] 10y ago
I just give her a good hearty belly laugh, tell her she looks cute when she is angry (which pisses her off even more), and give her a hug or kiss on the forehead and tell her that I love her, which she will usually be defensive about (but IDGAF, I love that bitch), and go on to do whatever I was doing without her.
And then a couple of minutes later, what do you know, its like the problem didnt exist in the first place!
With my last 3 girlfriends, I thought they key was "communication" and what that meant was overt dialogue and discussion, because thats what communication is to me, written language, rhetoric, and abstraction. So i went to "talk about it" which would just sink them deeper into their own emotional hells. However, that example up there delivers more communication than I could write in several books. Even sex is a form of communication.
If a picture is worth a thousand words, an interaction is a million.
[deleted] 10y ago
Honestly the best phrase I ever learned was "damn you get so sexy when you're all flustered." It not only reframes her anger in her mind as "flustered", it anchors her to the last few times I said that phrase, bringing up the silliness of past arguments and tantrums that she feels embarassed about. She remembers how the last 5 times she flew into a rage, she felt silly and stupid for doing it and wound up apologizing.
[deleted]
iggybdawg 10y ago
I've told my wife "I can't appreciate the other things you do when we don't have sex". When she protested, I reiterated it as "Hot sex isn't a scored item on the 'how good a wife are you?' exam. It's writing your name at the top so you get a grade at all."
[deleted] 10y ago
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iggybdawg 10y ago
There's another analogy I heard on r DeadBedrooms that I love:
Think of your man as a hungry outdoor cat. It's totally up to you whether you feed the cat or not. But it's not up to you at all whether or not the cat eats. If you don't feed the cat enough, don't worry, it'll eat something. Maybe it will feed itself, but it's more likely it'll find a nice neighbor who will feed it, too. If you don't feed the cat at all or the food you give it isn't as nice as the neighbor's, one day it just won't come home to you anymore.
RickSHAW_Tom 10y ago
Or it will start eating garbage.
rebuildingMyself 10y ago
You can reverse the genders amd exchange sex for validation/attention amd it will fucking mean the same thing. It's like men and women are equal in opposite ways in a bizarro world sense of the word
The_Determinator 10y ago
That makes it sound like a fucking chore.
iggybdawg 10y ago
Yeah, cooking, hell, even eating, is a chore to some, but a joy to others.
I took it to mean that sex is a biological urge that you aren't going to suppress. Your SO is going to fill that need above the satiation point, with or without your assistance.
You see a lot of SJWs around reddit that like to pick on people, especially in DeadBedrooms, saying "Your SO doesn't OWE you sex!" Well, no shit! But did you (SJW) know that for the same reasons I can't force my wife to have sex with me, she can't force me to not have sex with someone else?
The_Determinator 10y ago
That puts a new perspective on it for me, thanks. I thought it got the point across, but feeding your cat reads like the wrong type of metaphor for something that should be enjoyable.
As far as biological urges go though, "he's gonna eat food today" or "he's gonna piss eventually, make sure you're the toilet for him!" aren't much better.
Sleep then? "He needs to sleep every night, but it's up to you to make sure your bed is his best option." Yeah, I guess. Can't come up with many enjoyable biological needs though.
iggybdawg 10y ago
What is sex? It's excretory, just like piss and shit.
A man excretes gametes. A woman takes them in and 9 months later excretes a baby.
The recreational qualities are evolved to ensure that we do it. Those that didn't like it got breeded out.
correction_robot 10y ago
sex is not excretory dude
are you 12? ...painful to read this
oskArtist 10y ago
What flaws do you see in the cat metaphor?
OneTouchHowMuch 10y ago
That the cat is the only one benefiting.
[deleted]
MrFunnycat 10y ago
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/cron_z/gif_judge-ooh.gif
[deleted] 10y ago
http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lrech7SQPj1qiz3j8o1_500.gif
iggybdawg 10y ago
Telling her the truth always works best.
Cyralea 10y ago
"Right now I want you. I can be with other women, but right now I want you." If she responds with anything other than compliance move away from her without so much as saying a word. Let her hamster run. That one sentence both conveys that you're not a loser and that she is still valued in your eyes.
Married man game is so much harder. Kudos to you for making it work, but it's a bit akin to going to war with nerf weapons.
panzergling 10y ago
Akin to going to war with nerf weapons knowing that you will either die fighting in this war or go home empty-handed, half the man you once were, still have to pay taxes despite giving your humanity to your military and having to cope with the depression of that without any true support from most of society or the government you fought for.
...so basically it's exactly like going to war...
(for America, at least)
Overkillengine 10y ago
Giving up the greater chance of being actually able to walk away at any point with minimal resource losses if a woman is not meeting her end of the bargain...yeah no thanks. Props for doing what one can to make a disadvantageous contract work out though.
Had a waitress recently ask me my opinion on marriage. I told her "It's betting half or more of your shit the other person will love you forever."
She was at a loss for words for a few moments after that.
Amusingly enough she still tries to suck me into conversations every time she sees me walk by the diner.
Visimicus 10y ago
I'm going to steal that line, thanks.
Lantisca 10y ago
I am too. Jesus, that was a good line.
Lj27 10y ago
To be fair, it's only "half your shit" if she contributed absolutely nothing during your relationship. And if that's the case, then you deserve to get stomped on.
Overkillengine 10y ago
Yes and no. If you were a controlling ass and did not allow her to work at all, sure. But if you were marrying her in a good faith agreement that you would handle the providing while she willingly handled the housewifing, but she just decided to renege on that out of malice/greed/feelz, no. At least not in the sense that you did anything wrong other than trust a potential scorpion and gave it a ride across the river.
Yozki 10y ago
The "Right now" is such a passive aggressive thing to say, it's pathetic and manipulative.
[deleted] 10y ago
Yeah, I know right?
Because,"you only want me for sex," isn't right?
Right?
GTFO.
99639 10y ago
I think it's not passive but directly aggressive, as it should be. Their marriage is collapsing in front of OP's eyes. Not having sex for 2 months means to me that shame and laziness is the only thing even keeping them in a relationship.
Endless_Summer 10y ago
Explain how it's anything more than a statement of fact.
Sturmgeist781 10y ago
I think you are in the wrong subreddit. SRS is a few clicks that way --->
[deleted] 10y ago
How the hell is that passive or pathetic? Manipulative, I'll give you that. But we're playing to win.
Edit: It's actually not even manipulative as long as its true...
textualintercourse 10y ago
It's honest. Sad relationships can get to that point, but at times 'dread game' is necessary and a necessity for your sanity.
Or you just divorce and move on. Obligation sex is the worst.
53Pirate 10y ago
That deserves restating for emphasis: "Obligation sex is the worst."
If who I am doesn't make your panties wet, I don't want to have sex with you.
Archwinger Endorsed Contributor 10y ago
Seconded. There's no feeling worse than catching a woman's eye during the act of sex and seeing how badly she doesn't want you inside of her, and how badly she wishes it would be over. Two seconds after you're done, she's running to the bathroom to expel as much of your semen out of her as possible, and wants to shower and go to bed as soon as she can.
Plain missionary, barely any active participation on her part, mostly quiet unless you're hurting her, no kissing, no cuddling, no talking, limp fish, cold, sex that really is more like masturbating yourself using friction from her vagina than actual sex.
Cyralea 10y ago
It's about as direct a statement as you can make, and it works. Spend some time around here and educate yourself.
theredpillager 10y ago
I disagree with that being a good thing to say. You don't say you can get other women, you show her that you can get other women. Talk is cheap.
Cyralea 10y ago
Dread can be delivered in nuance, hence walking away from her. Her hamster may initially reject your claim but make no doubt, she will contemplate it's validity if you give her enough time. If you continue to argue that you're attractive to women, then yes, it will only lessen her belief in that claim.
You can and should start talking to other women if she continues with her non-compliance. In the context of an LTR you don't often need to escalate to more heavy-handed measures right off the bat, especially if she has a history of being receptive to being submissive.
dallz_beep 10y ago
I just don't understand all these married men. They go for months, years even, without any pussy. How do they do it? Are they cheating on their wives? Do they jack off all day? It just doesn't make sense to me. You'd think there would be a lot more spousal violence/"rape" coming from all this frustration. Beta men are incredibly well-behaved.
I suppose if you don't lift and eat like shit your libido suffers, which makes things easier. But still, what a shitty life.
Mandeponium 10y ago
“You’re not doing something you should be doing unasked.”
Not even my male hamster picked up on that until you broke it down.
isolos 10y ago
Mandatory plug for /r/marriedredpill. I've tried to advertise this sub a few weeks ago but the bot really doesn't like linking to other subreddits so here it is.
FallenHighSchoolJock 10y ago
I don't even want women for sex anymore. I'm strongly considering joining herbivore crew for life. Sex is crude and animalistic. Do you know why the penis is shaped the way it is? It's a plunger to extract the semen of other males. DISGUSTING! One only needs to look at the state of women's bathrooms to know that they are filthy creatures not worthy of a man's time.
johnnight 10y ago
Excellent comedic timing precisely at the last word :)
madhax0r 10y ago
That's not true. We want you to clean up the house and make us food as well.
[deleted] 10y ago
" Men aren’t supposed to ask for sex. Ever. They’re supposed to just be attractive so that women want to have sex with them,"
This couldn't be more wrong.
Simply put, i've bagged more women by 20 than most do in a lifetime.
I texted 5 different girls today saying " hey sexy come let me fingerbang you in the sunshine"
The point is, you need to come from an angle of detatched reverence, as i call it. When im hanging out with a girl, ill say, why are we not fucking, or can we just fuck already?
Your wife owes you sex, hell I had a girlfriend for 2 years and we went at it 2 times a day for the most part the entire time.
Your wife is your wife. Go facefuck the shit out of her. If you don't like it, divorce her. I can't fathom how you go to a point in your marriage where your wife refuses sex, but i pray for you to grow the balls to put that women in her place.
subcover 10y ago
Married man, upvoting this even though he bitches about married men who've gone places he has never gone in his life, relationship wise.
Because I like his attitude.
kinggluejar 10y ago
Something I don't see talked about much here that needs to be incorporated more in relationships is that, alternatively, you can learn to seduce her. It's super easy if you know her kinks. I don't know what it's like when you're married but I've found that seduction works wonders for me with my gf and this relationship has been going on since 2010.
53Pirate 10y ago
I think the first step is instilling in your wife, without ever having to say it out loud, a sense that she can stay or she can go ... and that if she doesn't "want" to be on your personal man-bandwagon than you not only don't give a fuck if she goes, you'd rather she did if she's not happy to be there. Finances and kids be damned.
(This is assuming, of course, you've done the things you need to do to make your personal man-bandwagon a place a number of women, including her, would want to ride.)
However, as long as you DO give a fuck whether she goes ... she will continue to attempt to manipulate in order to beta-size you.
And yes, marriage IS (among other things, some good) one big long shit-test. It's what women do. Soon as you absorb that idea and learn to ignore and laugh at the shit-tests and refuse to respond to them, the less frequent they'll become.
That's just my thinking on the subject ... I understand others may differ.
subcover 10y ago
I liked the "it's what women do", it's true. It's what they do to each other, to you, to anyone they feel the power to do it to.
MisterMagorium 10y ago
Man-bandwagon...interesting....never heard that term before.
PlebDestroyer 10y ago
Never rethought I'd see the say dudes have problems laying their wives... She's probably cheating. Sloots gonna sloot mane.
Rollo-Tomassi 10y ago
"You only want me for sex" is a filibuster for a woman who has no desire to fuck you.
http://therationalmale.com/2012/06/27/filibuster/
Think about that logic for moment: "you only want me for sex" is ludicrous coming from a woman who's implicitly and deliberately making a man wait for that sex.
85%+ of men are Betas who want nothing more than a secure, committed long term relationship with regular sex.
The 15% or so Alpha men a woman would eagerly fuck given the opportunity are never asked to wait for sex, and neither is there any reservations about them only wanting her for sex – sex IS the point with him.
http://therationalmale.com/2011/11/04/taking-things-slow/
PaulRivers10 10y ago
I think you did a great breakdown of what's happening. It took a lot of us a while to realize this was it.
One minor quibble in the wording, whether you can verbally say it depends on the girl. I've had girlfriends who just can't handle verbally talking about sex, and others for whom it's a turn on when they're turned on. It seems to have something to do with her background.
The situation seems to me to be more of asking her for sex that she isn't already wanting. If she's already craving it, asking for it is a turn on for most (but not all) women I've dated. If she's not really emotionally craving it yet, that's the situation you're describing.
Asking her why is like asking a guy why he doesn't feel like eating spagetti today. There's a chance there's a clear reason he knows (food poisoning last time, ate spagetti earlier today, etc) but odds are he doesn't really know more than "I just don't feel like it".
TheRedPill and Game try to describe what would make her want to have sex more to begin with. What would make you more attractive to her, what would increase her emotional desire towards you. Some of it is doing things like dressing better, being in better shape, and preselection (when you go places and other women find you attractive, she tends to feel that you're more attractive). Some of it is handling her when she's either testing you, or doing stupid things.
And I've seen a lot of girls follow the pattern of getting into a relationship, then working to kill the attraction themselves - whether it's a test, or them being stupid without realizing it, there's a reason why it's a common stereotype that women get into a relationship with a man, change him, then lose all attraction for him if they're successful in changing him into what they think they want.
BluepillProfessor 10y ago
You are in a battle for your life my brother and I wish you well and good karma. The problem is a rebellious wife usually cannot be reasoned with logic or talked down with smooth words. In most cases she can only be defeated, or divorced. A 3rd alternative that I was able to pull off (for now anyway) and which you may want to consider is negotiating her voluntary surrender. Like me you are something of a wordsmith (inside baseball right there) so I understand how your verbal logic helps you maintain frame in the face of your wife's irrational arguments. I think you could also use it to negotiate a voluntary surrender although I had the whole devout Christian thing on my side as well.
I have been following your exceptional posts for a while and IMHO it is time for the hard Dread. You know what you have to do in that regard.
On the surrender negotiations, I did not really argue, I basically laid out an ultimatum after building up a fair amount of dread and ultimately told my wife: "Fuck me, or fuck you. I am not going to put up with your denial games any longer."
Also, have you tried forgetting about getting verbal consent and just going for a straight seduction? Instigate....Kino...Isolate....escalate while assuming the close and ignoring what she says- focusing on what she does? Just take control, grab your wife and fuck her. Don't ask. Obviously if she protests and starts saying 'no' treat it like a ONS LMR- de-escalate and switch to comfort then re-escalate. Rinse, repeat, and most important hold frame and OI. If she gives you a hard "no" then freeze her out as Mystery suggests. Withdraw yourself emotionally and intellectually and your unnecessary attention until she is willingly compliant. Again, Best of luck.
subcover 10y ago
Yes, definitely go for the game approach. Verbal involving requests is wrong. Assume the sale. If she gets angry (mine did) either persist or back off, having moved the ball forward.
The good thing about marriage is that there is a next time. To stop that she'd have to disrupt everyone's life. (And while she might not mind disrupting yours, she probably has some concern about the kids, and she does not want to disrupt her reputation with friends etc. Use it.) Sex is an expectation in marriage. Don't discuss this with her, assume it and go from there. She'll get angry once, maybe twice, then go along. You don't have to get her into bed. You start in bed! If she's got you sleeping in another room or something, just reappear in your bedroom and get into the bed. Short of a judge's restraining order, I don't see what can stop this.
And it will improve everything in the relationship for the same reason winning with a woman always does. If you take Vagina Mound, you control the battlefield. Notwithstanding the yips and protests of her nasty side, which is saying "I am angry because this guy's become a beta and I'm supposed to have control of him." Long marriage will sometimes turn you into a beta. So then battle back and regain the high ground.
tldr: marriage is the world's longest most intense shit test. Don't give the crap any more respect than that. Get what you want out of the marriage.
RedPillDad 10y ago
♂
This is exactly what I did. My sons were floundering in relationships so I started researching Game. Lo and behold it worked WONDERS on my wife and rejuvenated our stale sex life.
Like you said, rekindle verbal and physical game as if you were seducing someone you just met. Whisper some fantasy shit in her ear, "I know we just met at the grocery store, but I took one look at your hips/face/smile and knew I had to have you..."
Then push her onto the bed, yank off her clothes, and fuck her like a crazed animal.
trpbot 10y ago
Confirmed: 1 point awarded to /u/BluepillProfessor by RedPillDad. ^[History]
[This is an Automated Message]
KasperskyEmployee 10y ago
Could you explain a little more exactly what you mean by: Instigate....Kino...Isolate....escalate?
This stuff is gold.
Edit:a word
BluepillProfessor 10y ago
Sure! This is basic PUA.
First step in a pickup is to be Mr. Comfort. Make her feel comfortable around you enough to continue the conversation. Light hearted, funny, interesting etc.
Second, Instigate: Start in, LIGHTLY at first, with sexual innuendos and double entendres- the English language makes it easy. You can do this via chat and text also. Just make yourself a sexual being, make your intentions known verbally- but indirectly- and start the first hint of the tingles in your target. Example: "I had a GF who kind of reminds me of you. She had this thing she did but...no, you wouldn't be interested in that" or (in a LTR) I texted my wife yesterday asking her when she would be home. She responded with a time and "why?" I responded: "Cuz when I don't see you it gets hard." Playful flirting and sexual banter are the order of the day at this stage. Don't overdue it. Be indirect and watch her closely. If she responds then escalate. If she does not keep it light and friendly, but firm. Watch for shit tests, slut defenses, and last minute defenses.
Third: Kino. TOUCH her- NOT in a blatantly sexual way. No grabbing and twisting nipples. A LIGHT touch on the bare upper arm/neck or back of the hand is often very effective. Continue conversation.
Fourth: Isolate- think of a serial killer trying to get his victim alone so he can have his way with her. Change of venue to a more private restaurant or even a private table in the back is effective isolation. Get her away from the cock blocks and distractions. This is a pretty easy stage when you are married (even with several little cockblocks running around you can always put them in front of the TV and lock your Bedroom door).
Fourth, escalate. The kiss is most obvious but building up to that is critical. Escalate the kino first. Move your hand from her upper arm to her neck. Slide it under her spaghetti straps and very gently slide a finger up her neck. If she responds you can escalate very quickly. If she is tense and pulls away back off but only slightly. For example remove your hand from her neck but slide it back down to her arm. It is really just like the kiss- you start out slow and gentle, not by shoving your tongue down her throat.
KasperskyEmployee 10y ago
Thanks this was very helpful have some goldyness.
P.s You have taken my gold virginity ;).
csmass 10y ago
I had an ex that was like this. I always got her into a huge emotional argument where I was super dominant, and afterwards she'd be all over me like there was no tomorrow. She loved makeup sex. lol.
Puc 10y ago
I don't understand why reddit is that negative about TRP, this post is golden!
testmypatience 10y ago
... Just tell her to go get naked because you are going to have sex. Don't ask. If she says anything, just don't respond. Do not give value to bullshit. If she continues, say you will go find someone else to have sex with and then leave, get in your car, and do whatever the fuck you want.
I'm not sure if OP still is with said wife or is talking about an ex wife. My fiancee was told early on that if she ever decides to play games I am going to find someone else to fuck and she will be instantly kicked out. My life, not wasting it.
[deleted] 10y ago
Instead of nagging your wife for sex try being a man and dating her, instead. You'd be surprised how receptive women are to seduction when they're made to feel attractive and loved.
Edit: downvote me all you want but when I want to make love to, or fuck, my wife I don't have to wait 48 hours to do it like a pathetic loser.
insickness 10y ago
The problem here isn't that she's accusing you of wanting her just for sex, the problem is that she doesn't want to have sex with you. "You only want me for sex" is just an excuse. If that stops working she'll come up with another excuse. She's not in the mood or she has a headache or she just doesn't feel sexual and needs to see a doctor, etc.
Your wife should want to fuck you. If she doesn't, all this verbal repartee means nothing. You could pass her shit test with flying colors, and you would still fail in the big picture because she simply doesn't want to fuck you.
The good news is, as a man, you can change this simply by your behavior. You can be more dominant, more aloof, more sexual, more hard-to-get and keep her on edge. In short, you can be more red pill. At some point in your relationship with her she did want to fuck you, so getting back to that is not impossible.
I would check out Married Man Sex Life. They have some pretty good tips for how to go about doing this.
Screenp2 10y ago
Don't bother with Marrried man any more.. I was there 2 years ago when the man was strong, then Athol sold out to the feelz and women because they are the ones who spend the money on self improvement.
Since then he has tried very hard to separate himself from the manosphere.
insickness 10y ago
Really? That's a shame. I haven't read too much of his stuff but the stuff I read I did like. He seemed on point to me. I was reading it to help a friend of mine who was going through a divorce and was reluctant to swallow the red pill.
Screenp2 10y ago
I still flip through my copy of the original book and it's on our group reading list. It's when he published the updated version, the watered down mindful attraction to appease the wives, and older post wall fems, who were showing up in droves that were being offended by the men on the forums. suddenly it wasn't as guy friendly and we were being told to respect the feelz of the incoming women. Then guys started being banned for telling it like it is, for truth, guys who were there from the beginning, guys who had thousands of posts and helped countless men go from whiny beta hubby to being laid like tile. If you didn't get on the feelz wagon and play nice, then you're not welcome here was the tone. That was my cue to leave.
The last time i read the forums it was cringing so i did myself a favor and added the site to my forbidden list.
*edit.. spelling
insickness 10y ago
Wow, that's sad. But I could see it happening exactly like you told it. It's almost impossible to cater to both women and men at the same time when it comes to relationship advice. Any useful advice you could give men will not be of the 'play-nice' variety most women want to hear. Most of it is kinda the opposite: don't play nice.
53Pirate 10y ago
Agreed.
You shouldn't have to "seduce" your wife in order to get some duty sex. I've been reading a bit on MMSL forum (Athol & Jennifer Kay) and this is where I think I disagree with the info they put out (no, I haven't read their book)
I've come to conclusion that men need to be the man they want to be .... and if being that man doesn't, in and of itself, make her panties wet - then maybe it's time for the man to move on.
(and vice-versa as for women - if she is being the woman she wants to be and if that woman doesn't make your dick hard, she needs to move on)
As someone said previously on this thread "Obligation sex is the worst."
subcover 10y ago
I agree that MMSL is too nice to women. I disagree that you should not expect duty sex.
She married you. She sleeps with you. WTF does she expect? Well, you define her expectations to a large degree. You are the man. If you're not doing that for her, you've fallen off the bicycle, but then just get back on the bicycle and ride it again. Once she sees you are leading, she is highly likely to follow (perhaps with some LMR bitching).
If it starts as duty sex for her, her attraction will probably return. Oxytocin for the win. But she should have the sex and not put you back as if you were strangers, you can expect and assume more.
HamHungry 10y ago
So she should just love you for who you are and you shouldn't have to put any effort in? That sounds familiar, but I don't think it belongs here.
53Pirate 10y ago
I think you missed my point 'HamHungry' - not really what I said. About my putting "effort" in, I mean. But yes, she should love me for who I am ... and if she doesn't then I need to change or we need to split.
I want my wife to want to fuck me like I was the plumber or a guy she met in a bar on girls night out (not that my wife is fucking the plumber or goes to any girls nights out) I don't want her to fuck me simply because I'm her husband and asked her to. I'd rather do without.
Unlike some others (and I truly feel for them) mine has never refused me (well, once) - she has however performed "duty sex" and I've long since lost interest in that. If I'm not making her panties wet as a man, I don't want her to fuck me out of obligation ... same, same, I expect her to be a woman who makes my dick hard and who I want to fuck, not just 'cause she's my wife and available.
subcover 10y ago
I do.
And you should love her for who she is.
RP is really about understanding who she really is.
iSpccn 10y ago
So many people rag on TRP for being a misogynistic dude farm. That's really, to me, far from the truth.
RP is simply trying to even out the playing field, and make sure women know that just because they're pretty, and have T&A, that they don't control the relationship between man and woman.
iggybdawg 10y ago
It's hard to play a game when you don't know what the rules are. It's even harder when you don't even know you are playing a game.
james_bell 10y ago
Upvote for RP stories about married life. Need more of these.
iggybdawg 10y ago
I've got plenty: learning RP when already married is like playing an RPG without the ability to save and backtrack.
galaxy_man33 10y ago
Shit....not just marriage. This story is the PLAY-by-PLAY of the relationship I had with my 4-yr, live-in girlfriend......who cheated on me. I guess she didn't have that bad of a "headache" to fuck the other guy 3 times in our bed while I was away. That bitch scared me for life. TRP saved me.
morsX 10y ago
Anytime a woman is not excited to fuck you should be a red flag. It just so happens that I hold frame naturally, never betray my emotions and maintain outcome independence in most situations. Otherwise my last LTR would have been exactly what you experienced.
james_bell 10y ago
So much of TRP is about dating though, I'm much more interested in the applying it to LTR situations.
And your should thank that bitch, at least she opened your eyes. I know 50 year old men who still wonder why she cheated on them when they did everything for her.
mudra311 10y ago
Absolutely. When I first discovered redpill, I was still in an LTR. There simply wasn't enough info and I just looked like a jackass for about 2 months of the relationship. Now I know that the goal of a red pill LTR is to basically keep a similar dynamic from dating to relationship. I was a smooth mother fucker when I was dating my last LTR but switched to comfortable beta mode later.
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joaquim56 10y ago
You married guys have it hard. Kudos for fighting for your marriage and your needs.
OP, do you recommend marriage in hindsight? I do want a family and believe a marriage is best place family can happen, but it just seems like a grind.
It's like a non-stop shit test.
Dark_Shroud 10y ago
If you ever consider getting married talk to a lawyer and put your assets (house/land, firearms, vehicles) in a trust that some divorce court judge cannot just break. Also set up a living will, especially if you start to make good money.
Never give anyone access to your checking & savings accounts & retirement plans, even if you get married. Just add a person as a beneficiary in case you die. This makes acquiring ownership quick & easy.
Honestly you should do this anyway when you get start to acquire any kind of serious financial assets.
srtor 10y ago
Simple one word answer: NEVER get married. Never try to procreate unless you are 'absolutely sure' about your partner. Even that should happen when both of you are matured and willing to 'settled down'. But again, Marriage is off-limit.
theredpillacct 10y ago
Not only that, but the repercussion that you could face if the marriage doesnt work.
ReverendDexter 10y ago
Not OP, but divorced.
No. At least not for the reasons I got married, which were along the lines of "because that's what I think I'm supposed to do given our situation". I might still be blinded a bit by societal norms, but I do believe that marriage is worth it for some couples, just not anywhere near the volume of couples that actually do get married.
Why? I thought I wanted that, too, and I would never give up kids/dogs/etc now that I have them, but having a family, quite frankly, fucking sucks. Put your own needs first as much as you can and you're still spending 90% or better of your waking life handling other people's needs. Got any hobbies you enjoy? Not anymore you don't. Maybe you'll get 2 hours to yourself once a week, if you schedule it, and make it beyond clear that you are not to be bothered for anything short of a life/death situation. Go read through /r/BreakingDad some afternoon.
On the nose.
I wouldn't say that, but you are giving up liberty for security, and you're going to reap the consequences of that decision. This isn't some alpha/beta bullshit about being an indentured servant to your wife, either, it's about shit that simply needs to get done and you're going to be the one that has to do it. If you get off that kind of thing, and some men do, you'll enjoy it.
respectyourprivilege 10y ago
It's easy to know you didn't need kids now you have them. It's a totally different story when you're still just wondering what that's like, and whether it's that life-fulfilling change that people say it is. It must suck for the disillusioned men that don't feel so differently after having kids.
I feel like being a parent isn't worth it, and I can say now that I don't want kids. But when I'm 30 or 35 and I'm up at night wondering 'what if?', and whether I'm going to have any legacy it's a different story.
morsX 10y ago
I read one OP and a few of the top replies and shit if those guys aren't lost.
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BluepillProfessor 10y ago
Notice how all the happy marriages have one thing in common- the wife does not deny the husband sex. Somebody should write something about this....
OneTouchHowMuch 10y ago
growing up, my family taught my sisters to never ever deny the SO sex and to never use sex as a weapon or negotiation tactic. Didn't really realize how RP I was raised until I swallowed the pill.
Swimmingdunce 10y ago
Not all marriages are like that. My wife and I have been together for just over 30 years and we have sex 2 or 3 time per week. I usually initiate/ask and I'm rarely turned down. Even if she's not "in the mood" she will usually be obliging, or give me a hand job or blowjob. I can safely say that neither of us has ever used sex as a weapon or withheld it as punishment.
BluepillProfessor 10y ago
The rather belated agreement I reached with my wife on that point (after 20+ years of marriage) changed everything.
Sexual denial is a nuclear weapon and no woman who refuses to give up the launch codes is worth it. A woman destroys a man's soul using this tactic and she becomes increasingly anxious and bitchy as weeks of celibacy wring on.
MasonJarTeaDrinker 10y ago
Good for you man, I like hearing stories like that.
Ill_mumble_that 10y ago
This is very important. The moment she even references something along those lines you have to shut that shit down. If she's religious at all, my favorite quote is 1. Cor 7:5, which is some age old wisdom. I'm an atheist fyi.
subcover 10y ago
So was Saul the tax collector. Even after the name change, most of what he wrote was just guessing.
sorry couldn't resist ...
Ill_mumble_that 10y ago
OH I could go on and on about the bullshit in the bible. Saul (Paul) was probably one of my favorite examples of a guy who just made shit up as he went along while trying to found a religion.
Luckily for him he was smart enough at the time that he saw repeating matters of common sense as the best way to convince everyone he was an Apostle & simultaneously ensure the advice was timeless. It worked, and now 2000 years later people still go to war over the books he added to the bible.
Invalidity 10y ago
You come from a different generation. Times have dramatically changed and your wife is likely not the scourge from the more recent generations.
Women are multitudes more entitled than they ever were before, and their attraction wanes more easily nowadays and all accountability has been essentially stripped from them. Marriage is not suitable for most men today.
pogra 10y ago
Isn't it funny how all of this has happened with the rise of feminism?
OneTouchHowMuch 10y ago
and social media makes it even worse
The_Determinator 10y ago
Well, not really that funny...
GC0W30 10y ago
About as funny as the rise of Skynet would be....
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subcover 10y ago
Nice bland answer. Care to address any of the real life observations from us other married guys, why you think yours was different, how did kids affect it if you had kids, etc?
Swimmingdunce 10y ago
You're asking a difficult question with a complicated answer. My wife and I both believe in traditional gender roles (maybe this is a generational thing as Invalidity suggests). We both have very clearly defined roles and duties within our relationship so I think this minimises potential areas of conflict. Also my wife is also one of the most reasonable, sweet natured and intelligent people I know. I constantly compare the personalities of other women I meet and wonder how any man puts up with them. So maybe I'm just a lucky guy who found a unicorn.
subcover 10y ago
And no mention of kids, which raise the shitstorm potential by an order of magnitude or more these days. You don't use them for farm chores, and you have to worry about what they're reading and texting.
Condorman80 10y ago
Sounds like you're a very lucky man.
whinemoreplease 10y ago
I like being married. What PUA (this was before TRP existed) taught me was to have standards and set boundaries. I learned to make it clear that I wanted some one in my life that was positively contributing value and making each day better. I met someone that demonstrated she was willing to do that consistently and repeatedly over two years, who was also able to deal with my issues and my criticisms of her as an adult. I believed that she would be willing to put in the effort to make my life better every day for the rest of my life and I was willing to do the same for her. That was an active choice that I made which I realized I can unmake if she every stops giving value.
Anyway, point is, I'm really happy and pleased. And we're spending our 1st anniversary traveling around Italy and Poland. Life lesson is find women who work to consistently make your life better, not someone who just wants to take.
[deleted] 10y ago
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whinemoreplease 10y ago
Yeah, I know. Part of the reason is to give perspective on why I was happy getting married. I realized I have a choice to get out if things aren't meeting my expectation. That's been one thing I've focused on communicating -- we are together by choice, not obligation. If you're in a situation out of your own choosing, it's pretty hard to be resentful in that situation isn't it?
I just wanted to give a reason for why people might get married, because TRP/PUA is very heavily anti-marriage. I agree with being very weary marriage, but no to the point of not even considering the possibility. Knowing that pitfalls of male-female relations is very important if one is going to consider it. The legal ramifications are covered a lot by Mens Rights and the social aspect is covered by TRP/PUA.
Most of what you've listed listed still comes down to adding value and setting expectations though -- the expectations that we're still constantly choosing to be together and work together to improve our lives even when other aspects might be stressful. It's simply not okay to use any of it as an excuse to not give a shit about making the other person happy. That's priority #1 -- choosing to be happy and making the person happy.
[deleted] 10y ago
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whinemoreplease 10y ago
But I do have a choice, I can always choose to walk away (or fly away as the case may be) and to keep separate bank accounts. Maybe my thoughts on this will change if kids come into the equation. But part of it is choosing well, and I've seen no reason to doubt that my wife is a person who prefers giving over taking. Obviously, if that changes, the equation changes and I can revisit as necessary.
[deleted] 10y ago
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whinemoreplease 10y ago
I guess it's partly trust and not buying into fear and paranoia. My experiences with people have generally been positive. I feel that most people want to be decent. Pigeonholing and looking for reasons to confirm negativity turns into a self fulfilling prophecy.
Absolutely. And this is why my position is that we continue working to make our collective lives better and to make the effort to make one another happy. If either of us ever feels like not making the effort, the relationship is dead in the water.
Nothing big or drastic. For me it's just been like having a really good friend that I can share my life with -- someone I fully believe has my back and best interest in mind. There are more tangible things, like making sure I'm well taken care of, especially things that I'd rather not do or put off doing myself -- like laundry or cleaning. This goes two-ways.
First, getting into a marriage with someone where you're paranoid their going to fuck you is a bad idea. Living in constant paranoia means that you'd have to stunt your trust in people. I think this is unhealthy. I don't you can be fully open when there's a mentality of mistrust.
Second, for me it's not about losing something. If I was constantly worried about whether I was getting an equal or greater trade, it'd be a shit ton of pettiness and feeling screwed. For me, it's about being happy, which is much more subjective and harder to quanity -- but being happy is something I just know, very binary. As long as I'm happy, things are working. I'm a big believer in simplifying.
Archwinger Endorsed Contributor 10y ago
The only reason you should ever, ever marry is if you want to have kids in a nuclear family setting. There is no other reason to get married. That said, marriage to a good woman is the best environment for having kids.
People will go on and on about the joys of "sharing your life with someone," but there is absolutely nothing you can do with a wife that you can't do with a woman outside of a legal marriage.
Once you're married, for the rest of your marriage, every single thing you say or do, and every single thing your wife says or does, has this tiny little barbed needle in it. She never (usually) threatens, you never (usually) ask, and most days, things seem almost normal, but there's always this undercurrent, however slight, that she can divorce you at any time, and if things ever get bad, she will.
You can't fight, you can't have a serious discussion, you can't accidentally drop a dinner plate, you can't work too late, you can't refuse a request she really wants, you definitely can't lose your job -- without worrying, just a little bit, if this is going to lead to divorce. Every single moment of your life after getting married is spent considering the possibility of divorce and weighing that risk against whatever it is you're thinking of doing or not doing.
If she really wants to hold that sword over your head, sex is forevermore on her terms, the house operates the way she wants it to operate, she buys whatever she wants, she decorates however she wants, she raises the kids however she wants, and she sticks her tongue out at you while her finger hovers over the button. Any time she wants, she gets your children, your house, half of your assets, and monthly payments from you for the foreseeable future. But since technically, you have the right file for divorce, too, and voluntarily give her all of that, it's an "equal partnership," right?
If your wife doesn't respect the hell out of you, then the only thing keeping her from pushing that button is convenience. A divorce is hard and inconvenient, and as long as she thinks she can still control you, it's more convenient for her to keep the marriage. As long as you keep paying her to stay married to you and don't make waves, she won't push the button.
Sound like a future you want?
MachiavellianRed 10y ago
Perfect advertisement for why you should never get married.
juicy_truth 10y ago
As much as loved your parable, you are generalizing all marriages and wives based on your own experience. There are no barbed comments in my marriage. Fair and honest communication can exist inside of a marriage. I hate to say it, but you wound up with a high maintenance wife who is a manipulator. My wife exhibits none of these traits.
But you are right about a marriage being necessary for the nuclear family option.
[deleted] 10y ago
We should talk about prenups more around here.
[deleted] 10y ago
That's not marriage, that's a shitty marriage. Get off TRP and get some counseling.
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redpillschool Admin 10y ago
Threatpoint
http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2012/04/14/threatpoint/
http://puerarchy.com/2013/07/22/threatpoint-created-the-puerarchy/
Archwinger Endorsed Contributor 10y ago
Reading that made me angry. If I weren't stuck in the office, I'd go lift a few cars. I'll have to settle for raping a female co-worker and maybe kicking a few babies down the stairs...wait a minute...that'll get me divorced and cost me a shit-ton. Better not.
Another violent man kept in line by modern divorce laws.
caseycour 10y ago
You married the wrong woman, mate. My experience has been like living with a best friend I'm sexual attracted to. None of the stressful crap you describe. Guess I'm lucky.
mudra311 10y ago
You are VERY lucky. Or just know a good thing when you have it. Unfortunately, blue pulled and non-red pilled men think things like bad sex or infrequent sex will change with an LTR or marriage. You can't develop chemistry, that shit just happens and you'll know it right away.
vengefully_yours 10y ago
There is no right woman here. You either put up with her shit and let her run everything while going to work and trading your life for dollars, or you don't put up with her shit and bust your ass in the gym to keep your smv so high she knows you can do far better, but sometimes even the latter way will end up with her going stupid and running off with a loser.
How long you been married? I thought I had the right one, didn't make it ten years. Shit started at seven. Before that she was wonderful.
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PaulRivers10 10y ago
People keep writing this. But frankly, I think you've bought into the female frame of hiding reality right in front of you.
It's true that in the US, the system is biased towards women. It's true that to many women are actually stupid enough follow through on this, and shoot themselves in the foot.
But reality has the ultimate dread game that so far has not been changed - past some point in her teens (and maybe early 20's), a woman's SMV (sexual market value) is always going down. Maybe by a little, maybe by a lot.
I don't know of any women who - past 30 - got divorced and ended up with a more attractive guy than they had before. My own parents are an example of this - my father ended up dating someone else, and then his now-current girlfriend. While I love my mother, my dad's current girlfriend is a far better relationship prospect, and more attractive. My mother, on the other hand, hasn't ended up dating anyone else long term.
I look around at people in my parents age range and it's always the same - sometimes the woman dates or remarries someone else, but it's always a step down for her. For him, it's usually a step up. Sometimes he doesn't step up, but that's more the exception than the rule.
The thing that keeps her from pushing that button, and the thing that should motivate her to keep your relationship happy, is the ultimate dread game - as she gets older and older, she's just going to get less and less attractive. It's better for her to solidify a relationship as she gets older and keep things happy and as sexy as possible, than it is for her to leave, because the carousel in her 30's is broken down and rickety.
Of course some women are idiots. And feminism has done a lot to try to cover this up or complain about it. But most women say it's not true but realize it on an emotional level.
PaulRivers10 10y ago
I appreciate the responses and comments, however, I think you're missing the point.
Is her convincing you that every move you make can lead to a divorce real - or is it a shit test that you're failing because you're bought into it and are living in the fear?
Yes, if she leaves you she can hurt you disproportionately. But does she herself end up better off? A woman over 30, with kids and an ex-husband - what are her real prospects there?
I've just started to think that that mentality - that every dropped dish, argument, etc is going to lead to her walking out on you - is an effective manipulation to keep control over you. She's creating an image. Society-wide women have created this image.
But it doesn't have much real-world backing - if she divorces you, her romantic prospects are nearly always worse than yours. She talks a lot about how she has the power, but what she has the power to do is to hurt both of you. She doesn't have the power to make her life better by doing it.
StarkAtheist 10y ago
I agree, most women are idiots, and our American culture tells them that no matter how old, or especially how FAT they are (thank you Oprah)... that you are worthy of Brad Pitt, even after they pull the divorce trigger.
Dark_Shroud 10y ago
The problem is her friends, tv, movies, magazines, & feminist crap on the internet tell women otherwise. Reality is harsh to a woman in her 30s or older.
The ones with half a brain are smart enough not to blow up a comfortable ride. But some women are spoiled and don't know better.
I'm not saying men are saints either, that's just a different discussion.
vengefully_yours 10y ago
Even the smart ones will downgrade thinking its the way to go. I have yet to see a woman divorce for no good reason, and do better with her second husband. Both my ex wives, and all my ex girlfriends have done worse than me after they cheated and left. Not a single one has done better, and honestly I'm only mediocre in terms of looks and finances. I really enjoy the schadenfreude I get from what they do after they decide to go stupid.
100Timeswww 10y ago
This is something that doesn't get brought up enough in our society. It's like the elephant in the room that no one dares to talk about, for whatever reason. I've seen cases of the system working for a poor woman in an abusive relationship who needed to leave with the kids and receive payment from her ex.
However, for the majority of middle class to upper middle class marriages, the women always will be able to use divorce as a threat and follow through with it if they simply feel like it.
jeffunity 10y ago
This is why alimony fails as a societal concept. Support my kids? Sure. Take money for nothing? No fucking way
vengefully_yours 10y ago
Crushing child support with zero accountability for the mother as to what she spends it on is the same as money for nothing. My ex is getting exactly that. Even when the kids came to live with me she got paid by me. Its a gravy train for her, punishment for us, and it does not fucking matter if we were good or bad, or if she was abhorrent, she is rewarded no matter what in most states.
Never again. A vasectomy is the best present I ever gave myself, close second is laser eye surgery.
1independentmale 10y ago
Hah! I did both as well. Completely changed my life for the better. Would do again.
vengefully_yours 10y ago
Wish I could have done both sooner. I'm so old now I need reading glasses, which sucks, but its better than bifocals. Getting out of the gene pool has been great, no more worries about getting some bitch knocked up and being fucked over by the state, then never getting to see my kid. Once was enough for me.
getbackdownhere 10y ago
Sorry to be so blunt but your marriage is beyond shitty, as evidenced by everything you've said above.
I don't think you get to speak about marriage in the abstract, you are pretty much failing at it.
Maybe TRP will help and maybe it won't but if you are being honest with yourself, you have to admit that yours is not indicative of most marriages.
anonlymouse 10y ago
If you have a great marriage, it's not like you need red pill advice to fix it.
Same goes with a great life in general. The only reason you swallow the pill is because you've recognised there's something wrong.
JihadDerp 10y ago
What did he say that was wrong?
getbackdownhere 10y ago
He is describing his own shitty wife as though she is the model for wives in any marriage.
I don't think it's right for him to be talking about marriage in the abstract based solely on his limited experience
Condorman80 10y ago
Have you ever been married?
BluepillProfessor 10y ago
I take great exception to you characterizing a man with an antagonistic, shrill, sex denying wife as "failing." What exactly is HE failing at? Let me guess- he is failing at keeping his wife haaappppy so OF COURSE it is HIS fault. Do I have the assumptions right?
Arch has more education and IQ points than 99% of the population. He can talk in the abstract however he wants and people should listen. Everybody has an equal chance to make their voices heard on the internet and Arch's voice has been consistently exceptional.
His 'shitty wife' IS the model for marriages today. The good ones are the exception and I abstract that fact from my own limited experience, my friends and families experiences, and the experiences of thousands of men in the manosphere.
Please enlighten us if your extensive experience with marriage differs.
iggybdawg 10y ago
Actually, yes, failing at life is quite "normal".
In the darkest hours of our dead bedroom, my wife would tell me that little to no sex in marriage is "normal". "None of my friends have sex with their husbands as much as I do with you." when we were doing it once a month.
It's like, well fuck "Being obese is normal. Being an idiot is normal. Spending more money than you make is normal. Raising your kids as spoiled little shits is normal. Getting divorced is normal."
TRP gave me the balls to say those things I was thinking all along.
ColdEiric 10y ago
So why did you do it? Kids? Needed to present the image of a family man, as politician does?
[deleted] 10y ago
you may get married because you think you found an unicorn but when the kids arrive, is like happiness walking around your house, and I mean real happiness, you do not give a shit what is going on in the world if your kid is asking you a question or wants to play.
yep, marriage is a bad deal, UNLESS you want kids.
Dreamtrain 10y ago
I'd like kids some day for two reasons, one a bit primal and the other is more emotional.
Firstly, I'd simply like to pass on my genes. Secondly, I would want to share everything I've learned/become and see my children accomplish what I could not.
[deleted] 10y ago
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Dreamtrain 10y ago
As a Sperm donor the child will inherit my body but not my will.
Adopted/foster will only inherit my will but not my body.
Truth to be told, I have considered the sperm donor part a bit more, but the one clinic within reasonable distance is apparently overrun with donors.
Archwinger Endorsed Contributor 10y ago
Kids. My daughter is awesome!
Also, back then, I really didn't know any better. I was 20-something, never had much luck with women growing up, and was excited as hell to have the fifth woman I'd ever dated and the second I'd ever fucked actually willing to marry me. The signs were there before we got married, but I figured things would get better once we settled down. Things got worse instead. The Red Pill really turned things around for me. We're not where a "red pill marriage" ought to be, and honestly, I think there are some parts of my relationship with my wife that will never be "fixed," but things are piles better than they were a year or two ago.
caseycour 10y ago
ah.. this sheds more light on why my experience has been different than yours. I married about the 30th woman i'd had sex and she was probably my 20th girlfriend or so. I had a lot of relationship experience before her and really had what I wanted out of relationship dialed in. I've always been the leader in the relationship.. but really we're closer to equals.. we consult each other and seek each other's approval on anything we might do that could affect both of us.
ISODAK 10y ago
Pretty much the same for me. I fell for blue pill nonsense all my life, married the second woman I dated, had an awesome son, and a wreck of a marriage.
I would not recommend it to anyone, even with the knowledge I have now to probably find a better woman.
That said, if all the best guys stop having kids, the future goes to shit, as they're raised by spineless betas, or even worse, bitter, self-serving single mothers, feeding them endless blue pill insanity.
I'd like to keep hope alive that I can meet an awesome woman and take another shot at kids, but it flies in the face of everything I know about women in modern US society.
subcover 10y ago
Married after age 35, when I had already figured out some RP type stuff, so marriage was better than it could have been. Was pretty assertive to get her. Had 2 kids within the first 5 years of marriage. But I've needed the reinforcement from online stuff like this that's become available to deal with the shit of the past 5 years of my marriage.
OP's experiences are so much like my own it was like I was reading my own writing. But I've reacted differently. This sort of shit does not deserve a straight answer, like what he proposes as "alpha". Attraction just isn't what it used to be mainly because her main emotional attachment now is to the kids. This is part of having kids, some guys seem to avoid it but not so many.
My wife's body is still hot, I've recently regained a higher level of sexual access by maintaining frame. It sucks when wife can draw you into beta behavior out of fear to protect the kids from her! This truly is 100 times harder than single game. I feel like I am in prison or a long endless tunnel, when their mother / my wife sometimes acts out against them, and the schools sometimes act out against them too. Very often now I just want to pack some shit and move away. I've already given them the most important support I can, anyway, and formed the kids to some extent in my image.
I think fatherhood used to be easier, but everything I sign up for in life turns out to be more complicated for me than it was for my parents. I have given myself permission to declare victory and walk away at any time, but I probably don't have the balls / craziness to do that and will stay here endlessly. When wife sees I really am about to do something, she'll preempt and demand a divorce. But it will just be psychological warfare because the kids are pretty far along.
Our society is dysfunctional enough that it just isn't fun any more. For anyone. If I hadn't had kids I would regret that now. But now that I have, I'm so ready to have a new adventure.
Archwinger Endorsed Contributor 10y ago
I feel your pain. My little girl turns 18 in 5,302 more days.
53Pirate 10y ago
So long as your daughter is unmarried and in college/technical school; or still living at home with momma, you'll still be on the hook for some support. Don't believe me? Just wait & see.
And if you are currently providing her health insurance you'll be on the hook for that till she's 26 or married.
Noroys 10y ago
I don't understand, don't you have prenuptial agreements in the U.S ? Or aren't they biding ? It's not a taunt, it's a genuine question. I mean in France should we divorce my wife and me, with the prenuptial agreement we signed my assets and what I earned during my marriage would be protected. At worst I'd get a small alimony for my kid but it would probably cost me as much as what I'm spending at the moment, so well it keep things evenly balanced ...
PM_ME_DEM_BRESTESES 10y ago
They exist. They are called prenup agreements. The very rich get them if they marry below themselves money-wise. (Athletes, movie stars etc.) The issue is most people don't think rationally when getting married. There is this cloud of love and romance that the logic of protecting your assets would cut through and it would show that you don't want the relationship to last just because you consider the possibility.
Foolish to an extreme degree, obviously. They seem to be much more common when the female has a higher net worth than the male. Go figure.
[deleted] 10y ago
Yea, I've always wanted to move to the US as a child, and I always thought France was a shit-hole. But the more time I spend on the internet, the more I think France is actually pretty cool. You can keep your freedoms US of A, I'll just emmigrate to the land of the kangaroos.
Dark_Shroud 10y ago
The US is very good, especially if you're willing to work & get educated if you need it.
You have to be smart in what you're doing & know the laws.
There is no other country where I could live is comfortable is I do now while being poor.
[deleted] 10y ago
I can absolutely agree that the USA is the best country in the world to be poor in. Our poor people still have apartments and decent cars and can party on the weekends...
[deleted] 10y ago
Here in Australia we have OBESE and/or very overweight homeless people.
Dark_Shroud 10y ago
We do as well, I meant more than just food. Our cost of living is much lower than Europe or Australia. I'm of the opinion both the US & Australia would be a better place to live than France.
I'm just wondering how crazy of a place the internet has made the US seem to him.
rpkarma 10y ago
Honest question, where? Cause the aboriginals in fortitude valley aren't obese (just old and ugly and slightly violent).
[deleted] 10y ago
I was walking through West End and there were a few there. Really old, dirty, smelly clothing. Dude is fat.
[deleted] 10y ago
Idk man, we have free healthcare here, college costs close to nothing and other good stuff. I still want to move to the US but I don't know if its worth all the bullshit your country is known for.
[deleted] 10y ago
There is a lot of bullshit in the USA (speaking as an American).
Negative GDP growth last quarter, $17 trillion in gov. debt, money being printed from thin air by the federal reserve, an overall police state, the NSA's global spying and recording 80% of all phone calls.
The US has been fucking up badly for the past decade.
Of course our country is still great in a few different ways. There actually are really cool people here (guys and girls) regardless of what people say. And we probably still have the hardest workers of any nation.
I wouldn't move here, though, if I were a foreigner. It's not the right time anymore. Hit up a BRIC country or a 2nd/3rd world emerging market for the real fun and games.
Dark_Shroud 10y ago
Your health care isn't "free," you pay for it with your taxes. Our taxes and cost of living are much lower.
Every country has it's own share of bullshit, it all depends on where you want to live and what you'll put up with. What are your main concerns about living in the US?
iggybdawg 10y ago
You probably also still have your whole dick.
When I was born in USA, the doc cut off my foreskin, charged my parents at least $500 for the 5 minutes of work, and then likely turned around and sold it to biotech firms who make it into skincare products.
[deleted] 10y ago
Ouch, I completely forgot about circumcision. You know there's a way to "grow" it back?
iggybdawg 10y ago
You mean grow a fauxskin. I did that a bit to get some slack. Before that, my skin was so taut, vigorous masturbation would split it open.
[deleted] 10y ago
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le_king_falcon 10y ago
She still thinks she can play the vagina card to bring you back into line.
People never like it when someone they have lorded over gains a backbone. So they'll just try and crank up the control mechanisms.
[deleted] 10y ago
so, what is your wife doing?
is she working full time? if not, why are you still paying a maid? are you still cooking and doing all the housework on top of working full-time?
are you going to change any of it?
i3unneh 10y ago
Ah yes, Pavlov's conditioning for sex, genius!
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[deleted] 10y ago
This is why the RP tenement of "men are the gatekeepers of commitment, women are the gatekeepers of sex" is true, but not the ideal mentality for you to have. I gatekeep both. You want your GF trying to get sex out of you - you want to lead sexual interactions, yes, but you also want to let her feel the power of No. Make her earn sex with you, treat a rough fucking just the way she likes as a reward for going to the gym with you or cooking or just taking extra care one night to look sexy as fuck.
Women love feeling that you are turned on by her, but even more focused on your mission in life and ambitions that you will turn her down. Gatekeep that shit - it's similar to being the selector when you go out to a club.
Your situation seems pretty bad man. I'm sure it's on the up and up with using TRP to improve yourself, but at some point, once a woman has glimpsed deep into the beta abyss, the abyss looks into her. She's never going to see you as a bedroom gangster - well maybe a nuclear sized dread game situation or if you majorly change your lifestyle, essentially becoming a 'new man' to her. You know your situation better than I do, but we see plenty of examples on r/relationships where the guy is always saying "I kept thinking she'd be more sweet and have sex when we had more time, when I hired househelp, when the kids graduated, when I became the CEO, when I... you see the point. You don't want to be stuck assuming she will be a different woman once you become this new, improved dude. TRP changes you, it doesn't change the male or female BPers around you.
subcover 10y ago
Heh yes I just saw a post like that on /r/relationships yesterday I think. Today I got kicked off there.
I've been able to post any kind of relationship advice there, I come from a redpill perspective and do not have different views there from here. What good am I to them if I am not honest?
But I have gotten kicked off twice. The reasons: (1) I was anti-abortion in some situation.
(2) I was not all sympathetic to a black girl whose white boyfriend expressed skepticism about affirmative action, and she got all shocked about it. (But didn't want to break up with him, and repeatedly told people that! Insulting a girl doesn't drive her away.)
And none of my posts in that thread were even heavily downvoted, the lowest I had was 0 points and I had one up to 3 points.
So I've only gotten kicked off there for political positions. But if all the advice there comes from pro-choice pro-affirmative-action people, it's not gonna be very redpill even if they say they don't kick people off for being redpill.
[deleted] 10y ago
Yeah that doesn't even have to do with RP. People are just moronic in any female-based subreddit because the mods always only care about controlling the boundaries of acceptable opinions. For example, some solid % of women are anti-abortion or at least not full out pro choice, possibly a solid 40% or so, but on twoX, the dominant female subreddit at the moment, what does an anti-abortion lean get you? Shadowban.
VarsitySlutTeamCpt 10y ago
Thanks for this, for having a different perspective when someone tries to shame and guilt me onto only having sex with them. I hope your marrage ends up better.
galaxy_man33 10y ago
http://shrink4men.wordpress.com/2009/08/17/sex-and-control-how-men-get-screwed-by-emotionally-abusive-women/
^^so is this essentially TBP way of expaining the "no sex for you tonight" phenomenon?
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subcover 10y ago
I am a highly educated guy, but the most use I've gotten out of that is to identify her lies and inconsistencies. For years I refuted them one after another. My kids learned she's a big liar by hearing me refute these lies all the time. For years I tried to be discreet about it and not embarrass her in front of the kids. Then I realized it was just making it harder on me while allowing the kids to be confused, so I did it openly and clearly. How can kids grow up RedPill without access to the real information, if they think Dad is weak because he doesn't defend the truth in front of them?
But having established that, and being worn out having to win constant stupid arguments, I gave up and basically ignore what she says. Works much better. Physical escalation in bed is a superior replacement for all the verbal skills in the world.
And I am highly verbally competent and educated, but it's not the best tool. One uses verbal game to get into bed. In a marriage you visit her in bed every night with no verbal crap required. And once in bed, verbal game isn't what you use, at least it isn't what I use.
OP's post is funny because he's verbally escalating. "You only want me for sex!" "Yes I do want you for sex." said unapologetically. And having set the expectation, he gets it.
53Pirate 10y ago
Or as Vladimir Putin recently said "It's better not to argue with women."
RedPillDad 10y ago
Just to be clear here, verbal game isn't arguing or logic. It's teasing, agree and escalate, and fun shit.
Bukkaking 10y ago
Yea that's real smart, make her feel sexually worthless so she can go fuck some other dude behind your back and bring up her value while getting back at you. When she resigned to the idea of submitting to sex with you, you should have gave it to her real good and rough and let her know who is boss, THAT is what would have made her see you as a man and not the pouty boy that you make yourself seem like.
Kaelteth 10y ago
The last time I got a "You only want me for sex", I replied with "You only want me for money".
Its sad really...even in marriage, women are whores.
[deleted] 10y ago
Just about everone pays for it. One way or another.
MisterMagorium 10y ago
Airhead Broad: "You only want me for sex."
Me: "Well, I don't you for your singing, that's for sure."
Dreamtrain 10y ago
I can almost predict the r/relationship sub's opinion on this matter:
"You should respect that she doesn't wants sex"
"You're a loser for rejecting her when she finally took the big leap to accept sex"
"You're not respecting her boundaries"
I think sexual satisfaction is the biggest indicator of a relationship's health. Even in cases when both individuals have low sex drive and pursue a common goal together that keeps them busy. I hope to marry in the future because I want kids eventually, and pre-RP I was terrified of ending up with a wife that overnight would just up and decide she only wants sex once every other month, or go cheat. Even back then I suspected that always being there emotionally, being the kind of guy that is willing to move mountains for his significant other and provide her with every whim wasn't gonna be a factor. People around me will tell that communication is key, and while I agree it's important I really doubt communication is a solve-all for relationships, you can't talk a person into feeling/wanting something they initially don't, unless you're manipulating them or tampering with them psychologically which I don't really want, I really doubt anyone's wife started to bang her husband's brains out like she was going down for that bad boy in college after a talk where they each shared what they feel. Isn't it best if they do it on their own? That's where RP comes, no need for guilt trip or supplicate for sex, I agree with OP there, should be natural.
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CharlesAnonymousVII 10y ago
"You only want me for sex!"
"Well... yeah."
Say it as if she's only stating the obvious, repeating a perfectly acceptable, mutually understood truism.
In other words: Agree & Amplify. Since she might assume you're taking her seriously (as you always did before), you may want to betray your sarcasm with a sly, crooked smile. Otherwise, maintain a straight face until you get some reaction out of her. Once she knows you're teasing, if she doesn't play along (say, with faux-indignation and a playful smack on the shoulder, or a kinky embrace of her new role as your sex toy), tell her to lighten up. Never give in and dignify the pseudo-accusation with a sincere rebuttal.
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DrakeSaint 10y ago
"The way you put it sounds like it's an awful thing" and the like are the best comebacks to this.
Sturmgeist781 10y ago
Another classic thread from Archwinger.
Tonynoce 10y ago
Last time my GF was so drunk that she was saying that phrase for the 1st time, I was a bit drunk too, so I answered in a cold manner and explaining to her that this was false.
Then we have a dirty sex were I spit on her face and she liked it.
Wintamint 10y ago
"You only want me for sex!" Best beta response? "Well, I'd settle for a BJ."
blue_27 10y ago
It's not the only thing, but it's on a very short list.
Captain_Self_Promotr 10y ago
I once told a girl that if she wasn't so pretty I'd have dumped her ass so hard by now. (I was intending it to be an insult, albeit true). She feigned indignation and the smile across her face was beaming. Women know the score, and best of all they know they're beauty is all that matters. And the beautiful like reassurances like that.
tedted8888 10y ago
Sorry you swallowed the red pill after marriage. Where there signs that she was controlling when you were dating? I wish you the best with your wife and daughter, but I would have nexted her when we were datting. Hopefully you can continue to read more redpill and reignite the passion that you and your wife had when you were dating, and have a successful marriage.
NotMeUsee 10y ago
I dont get the phone beeping part
Archwinger Endorsed Contributor 10y ago
Back then, my wife would bitch at me about something trivial. Right around that time was when I figured out the power of caring less and being dismissive and sometimes humorous, rather than defensive and supplicating.
I'd retort, and she would storm off in a huff, figuring that being angry and silent would somehow punish me. Rather than attempt to placate her, I started enjoying the peace and quiet and ignoring her display. Within 2 days, she was the one trying to salvage things via sex.
I didn't really do it every time we argued, just a few times, the first by accident, but you could literally set an alarm on my phone for tomorrow night, because like clockwork, we'd be fucking then, and the phone alarm I set two days ago would go off.
zoobiezoob 10y ago
you post that without a TL/DR? You are so silly.
Archwinger Endorsed Contributor 10y ago
I don't believe in one-sentence summaries. I would rather lazy people and people with poor attention spans click the link, see more text than they care to read, downvote it, and go do something else. If someone like that actually tried to muddle through one of my posts, he'd just do a half-assed job at reading comprehension, misunderstand a bunch of shit, and leave stupider than he came.
Sturmgeist781 10y ago
Archwinger threads don't need a TL;DR. They are pretty much top notch threads worth the read. TL;DR wouldn't do em justice.
Dreamtrain 10y ago
What? Were you expecting just a cheat sheet on how to answer to "You only want me for sex" shit test?