TL/DR: Girl beats her boyfriend in full view of everyone. She cries when the game is up and when she thinks I'm about to call the cops on her. White knights abound
Long version
One of my FWBs is 24, 8/10 and pretty fun. My FWB does sometimes show off some redpill traits I suppose. She understands that she's a FWB and it works well. She's got shit going on, as do I and neither one of us want the struggles of any sort of committed relationship. We enjoy fucking and the occasional hanging out.
Anyway, we were going out to the cinema last night and her friend and boyfriend decided they wanted to tag along. Movie over, we're getting some drinks and food from a pub bar thing across the way. I'm busy mainly with my FWB as she gets fun when I make her laugh. Her friend and boyfriend appear normal enough.
Anyway, the friend is definitely in the fixing type of mood. And she starts the conversation from out of nowhere. It's all about me and FWB and what we "are" why I haven't "committed" to her in any way.
I refuse to answer anything directly just saying that we are happy enough with how things are and no need to change anything that doesn't need fixing. I crack a few more jokes and get on mainly with warming up my FWB. But friend is obviously not letting up.
We discuss a bit more, my FWB is a bit more straight up than me but certain things she shuts up about, mainly stuff I have refused to answer before. But she gets enough to know that there is no commitment and that I do see other girls, something my FWB knows too. My FWB it seems doesn't see other guys according to my friend and talks about me often (uh oh, does someone want an upgrade?) but then describes me as an "asshole".
Of course, friend goes on the judgement speech immediately. My FWB is defending our arrangement just fine, I'm happy to let her fend off the initial assault. Friend then turns to me and asks me why my FWB isn't good enough for her. I make fun of her feet and her obsession with some male actor and point at flaws that way. FWB is giggling away, she knows I'm taking the piss out of her friend in the same way I diffused her old shit-tests on me when we first hooked up.
All the time, friend's boyfriend is laughing with me. He's cottoned onto where I'm at pretty quickly and is joining us in collectively laughing at the friend.
It's obvious, friend isn't happy about our situation and I'm obviously a scumbag. She turned back on my FWB when she said she shouldn't be "that kind of girl" and she can "do better". I firmly suggest that it's none of her business and if it's what her friend (my FWB) wants to do, then she should be her friend and support it. Not decry it. I could see friend's shit test was really a comfort test for my FWB. Instead of relenting and pledging my undying allegiance, I simply stood in the middle verbally and backed her off.
Whatever. The whole thing is highlighted when our bill comes and my FWB (she knows the score now, she knows my mentality before I even speak) asks the waiter for three bills. One for me, one for her and one for her friend and boyfriend. Or rather, boyfriend as he pays for her it seems.
Immediately friend pipes up again at me. "What, you're not even going to be a gentleman and pay for her dinner? After she puts up with the likes of you?"
I simply respond, "Really she should pay for me; I put up with her friend questioning me for a whole three hours! And did I mention those hobbit feet?" My FWB knows I'm just riling her friend, she grabs my hand and tells me she'd pay double for me or something like that. I can't recall correctly.
The friend's boyfriend is lapping all of this up. He sometimes sways between being protective of his girlfriend (she wears the pants, even responding correctly when she orders him to stop drinking alcohol) and laughing with the situation I find myself in.
We're leaving, my plan is to take FWB home for a pounding. We're already plenty touchy feely enough. We're walking back to where my car is parked and part ways with friend and boyfriend.
We're making out next to my car for a few minutes. It's dark, cold and pretty nice. My FWB is still giggling at some of the stuff that got said, I think this was the first time she was my audience member to handling women rather than the subject. Maybe it's knocked my game down a peg with her, maybe not, who knows.
Anyway we look over in the distance and discover friend and boyfriend are obviously arguing. We can't quite hear what is said, we weren't sure it was them at first, but she's doing the whole thrusting arms up in the air, he looks reasonable enough. We speculate at what they could be arguing at. FWB wants to go over and try and chill things, I just said we should leave them to it, no need to get involved in a domestic. Let them play it out, it's their business.
We're watching them about 2-3 minutes speculating, the friend is obviously getting a bit angry at the boyfriend who turns to walk off a few times. Now as we start to get into my car, I could swear I saw her clout him one over the head. My FWB didn't see it, but I was sure I did. We get in, I turn my car on and then it happens. The friend unleashes a hellfury on the guy like a wrestling match. She started with a kick in the balls which he obviously reacted to bending over to protect himself, she punched him in the face and on the back of the head. My FWB was in shock, just managing an "Oh my God!"
Now whaddya do. There's this guy getting beaten. You don't really know him at all, you don't really know her at all. FWB said we should go over. I just said, "Sod that we should just call the cops on her now!"
FWB is definitely not down for that idea because "she could get arrested!". Yes, yes she could. After a few seconds, I relented and said we'll drive over across that side of the car park and see what's up.
We get there, she's still in the midsts of berating him, calling him a cunt and a psycho. He has a mark on his face where she had punched him one and a bloody lip. When we appraoched them to split them up, she was facing him down with fists ready.
My FWB pulled her off of him backwards, I'm checking the guy make sure he can still talk. I specifically chose that dynamic, there is no way I am putting my hands on this girl or going anywhere near her! I could see a couple of people who had watched the whole thing. Now that FWB and I had shown up, that's when they decided to come over to "help". Fucking pussies.
The boyfriend obviously isn't happy but won't tell me what happened. It was shocking at first, this went from silliness in the pub to very extreme in no time at all. The friend started towards him another two times. The second time she tried to swipe for either me or him and I just stood up and said if she said one more word, I was calling the cops. Phone out, unlocked, I was dialling. My FWB was crying by now pleading me not to. The friend had shut up immediately. Her boyfriend was also asking me not to, I just said "That last swipe almost hit me and you bet your ass one more word gets said, I'm dialing. Do not even test me!"
We had attracted a fair amount of attention by now. People were watching agape at this whole thing unfold. Anyway, it seems threatening to call the cops was enough to get the friend to stop attacking and start crying. There were occasional shouts from her vicinity obviously aimed at boyfriend. Usually single word insults and more voices trying to calm her down.
We're there about 20 minutes with pussy Samaritans all trying to help out - aka stick their noses in the shit but when the boyfriend was getting smacked up they were all well back! That is, several guys and girls are talking with the friend making sure she's OK, I'm with the boyfriend trying to talk to him about what went on.
My FWB comes over to me after a while to join me with the boyfriend. She tells me she said that I would drop her home in my car. As in she had already offered. I just said, "There is no way that nutter is getting in my car. She can get her arse a cab!" My FWB protested that she couldn't leave her friend in that state so I just said, "If you want to go with her, do so. But there's no way I am having that in my car!"
There are a few men and women with the friend making sure she's OK. The boyfriend had two separate guys coming up to him demanding to know how it started. They basically were looking for opportunities to white knight. Their body language was very much antagonistic, demanding answers, "Why would she start at you like that? You must have done something to her..." You know the sort, rising inflections, that smarmy ass attitude.
One of them I had to tell to walk away as I could see what he was doing. He refused at first with a "what are you going to do? make me" type attitude. I told the boyfriend "Don't answer this guy anymore" and we both stood there in silence. The pussy white knight kept asking more shit until he finally got the message and walked back away. I guess he felt like he had won or something.
I knew that the the boyfriend was too much of a pussy not to take the bait. Had I left him answer the white knight's questions, something would have probably kicked off again. No need for another white knight war.
The situation diffused, I persuaded the boyfriend to leave in his car and go head to one of his friend's houses for the night, tissue to nose. I made him call the friend on his cellphone to tell them he was coming as I knew he would have just bolted for wherever he lives with this nutter woman. By calling his friend, he was pretty much committed then.
After he pulled out, a few men and women are left waiting with the friend for a taxi to show up to take her home. I started heading back to my car, my FWB runs up after me. She asks me if I'm leaving and I said, Yep, you're taking your friend home, everything is diffused, I'm going home!"
My FWB is obviously torn. She doesn't want to leave her friend, no matter how crazy she obviously is, but she doesn't want me to go either.
The same white knight, obviously on the hunt for pussy, won't leave us converse in peace and saying things like "Just let him go, if he wants to go let him". I don't dignify him with answers and address FWB. I just said, "It's your choice! But I'm leaving now."
I start walking, white knight is still there with his whiny voice but I don't even acknowledge him. And frankly, neither does my FWB. I got in my car and she gets in the passenger seat. She even said, "Fuck sake, that guy was pissing me off!"
She scrambles and pleads with me again to just drop her friend off and take her back to mine afterwards. I refuse simply stating that I really don't want to be around if she kicks off again. Simply as I know it's in her to do it.
A good few minutes, white knight is still waiting around sort of staring at us waiting for my FWB to emerge. What a pussy, he's laughable.
Finally, FWB tells me she will get the taxi with her friend, get her in the house and then get a taxi to mine. But would I make sure that they got to the taxi OK? I think she was actually a little afraid of white knight. I just said do what you feel, if I'm still up when you get to mine then cool.
I put FWB in the taxi next to friend. There was obviously a few people around, including white knight. Before I closed the door, I told the driver, "Take them out of the parking lot before you ask them where they're going!"
In a way, I was worried in case someone would try to follow them home but moreover I just wanted to express control of the whole situation in and of itself. I closed the door, the taxi drove off and I walked back to the car. People still hypothesizing what happened. And I would swear that someone told some newcomers that it was the friend who had gotten beaten up. I got back to my car and drove away from the crowd.
2:30am, about an hour later, she knocks on my door. She's lucky. I had just showered and was ready to hit the sack. A quick shower for her later, we're discussing things in bed. It turns out the friend didn't like me at all and that I was a "player". Me? Really? I never thought I would have ever been described like that. She was of course bemoaning this to boyfriend.
But it seems that boyfriend thought I was funny and not as bad as she was making out. And he apparently said it was cool that I was banging multiple women. And this was apparently the flashpoint for her friend. There was obviously more to this story which FWB did tell me, but not too relevant here. Apparently boyfriend used to see her ex-best friend and that was also mentioned a few times.
My FWB tried to excuse it by saying that her friend had "been treated badly" in the past. The second she said this, I just snorted and said "Bullshit, she knew what she was getting into with any one of those men who treated her badly!"
She was initially put off with this response, until she sort of figured that it must have been true to some extent. After that was a definite comfort test. Lots of "I never knew she could be that way" and "she must be nuts". Lots of LMR as well, but then you know how that goes.
Lessons
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Women, even ones you trust, can suddenly snap and beat you. They can and will do it if sufficiently provoked.
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While talking to the boyfriend after his attack, I asked him why he didn't fight back. HE simply said he was scared to do so simply because of the consequences. I.e. any of the guys witnessing would have most likely been violent towards him, through to the police arresting him instead
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Men in England will act just as white-knight as you Americans it seems. The immediate assumption was that they boyfriend did something wrong to initiate the attack and the justice mob demanded answers
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White knights actually scare women. It was definite my FWB wanted me to ensure she got to her taxi just fine, even noting to walk on the opposite side to where white knight was standing.
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Taking a strong stance against anyone attacking anyone does not need a raised voice. It needs dominance and the presence of an actual threat, in my case calling the cops on this woman.
- Some FWBs can be quite loyal when it comes to the crunch. I maintained frame when I refused to give crazy woman a car ride home. I remained ambivalent when my FWB said she needed to get her friend home. I demonstrated outcome independence when she turned up and I was just about to go to sleep, I wasn't waiting for her. All of these things she took in, processed in her mind and appeared grateful for. Put it this way, I got more than breakfast made for me this morning.
Update
I went out again last night for band stuff. As I drove home, some dickhead took a roundabout the wrong way (he was pissing about I would wager) and almost head-on crashed into me. Thank fuck for ABS.
But, it did give me a big reminder. My car has a dash-cam. When the whole thing kicked off, I made the decision to drive over to the incident rather than walk. It turns out this was a better idea than I had initially thought. My car's dash camera is automatic so I don't have to remember to turn it on, it goes on with the car's ignition and stays on. Also when we had arrived at the incident and got out, I had left my ignition keycard in the slot absent mindedly. But that meant the electrics were still on and yep, the dash cam rolled the whole time.
Now, it hasn't captured the entire fight, the beginning is missing. But it's very clear who is doing the beating and aside from some blurriness as it adjusts for light while I'm driving across the car park, it does capture enough blows delivered by the Friend.
The audio is useless and after we split them up there are only a few times where you see any of us. It's mostly people just milling around, a lot of white knight footage but importantly, it does capture the beating, where FWB was pushing her friend back across to the bench and the Samaritans who had previously been gawping near another bench deciding that would be the time to intervene. And it has captured when I was talking with FWB in the car about her taking her Friend home. An interesting conversation that I wish I could post. You hear more the second time around...
I doubt there is enough there for a conviction or any sort of unquestionable evidence. But you never ever know and I have now backed all of it up. Like I say it's not a headshot piece of footage in my dumbass opinion, but there is enough there.
I spoke with FWB (nobody else knows about my dashcam footage for now). It seems that the Boyfriend had a good conversation with the friend he went to after it all went down. I mean, he had to explain the battlescars. It seems the guy the boyfriend stayed with talked sense into him and he wants to move his stuff out of the flat. Of course the Friend is in pieces, life ruined, etc.
I just told FWB that it's her own damned fault and she's lucky not to be behind bars. There was a little bit of half baked defense, I got the sense that she had been trying to support her friend, bought into some of her bullshit like "It was only the first time" and "How can't he see past this one little thing" and "She is sorry and wants to make it work" and all this crap. A few gentle reminders about the kick in the balls that even FWB herself gasped at and asking her to consider how she would feel if someone had kicked her in the vagina like that. Not a prospect she relished.
I think initially she was trying to figure what I would tell the police if it ever came to that. Instead of answering, I just put it back on her that if it was the boyfriend doing the beating what she'd tell the police.
By the end of the call, I don't think it had taken much effort for her to come back round to her senses and realize that her friend was a nutter. She ended up saying that the Friend wasn't her "best friend" and that she had "only known her a few years" and otherwise trying to disassociate herself. FWB is definitely under the impression that if she keeps her Friend around I won't be and that she should really get some sense and distance herself from her regardless.
Who knows whether she will or not. But that's the minor update over the last 48 hours.
Women and their fucking dramas!
causeandcorrelation 8y ago
It's a lot little late in my part. Just wanted to say that you handled the situation about as well as one can. You de-escalated beta violence and handled the hysteric men as well as the women. Well done
87GNX 8y ago
Top tier state control. Bravo.
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markyLEpirate 8y ago
Hey I want to get a dashcam too but how does it work? Do you install it yourself? What's the model you have and how do you obtain/ delete video to save memory
raceAround126 8y ago
I use the mobius dash cam from eBay. It's really good and discrete, just takes standard USB power. The site sells a cig lighter to USB converter too, but I wired it up to my stereo loom so it comes on with the car.
The only thing you see is the dashcam itself just to the right of the passenger sun visor and a little black wire going up to the roof. It was a bit of an operation to do a tidy install, I took down the roof lining and the plastic moulding on the A pillar. The wire then runs down the side of the dash, under the glove box and round the back of the dash up towards the stereo loom. Routing it was the biggest pain in the arse, the wiring took all of two minutes. Added to that, USB is self-rectifying so it doesn't matter if you feed it 5v, it's still good.
The mobius records onto a little transflash card which slots out of the back. You can then view it using anything that plays mpeg. Sound is only OK, but the main good thing is the night shots this camera does. For it's relatively small footprint, it's the best one on the market - at least when I bought it.
Hope this helps.
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ChildOfTheLostTribes 8y ago
If that man had nothing to lose, it would've been a very different story.
raceAround126 8y ago
I think he has his own business or at least trying to start one. Even though it's small, if he had reacted in any way he would have lost what little he had.
javi404 8y ago
Well done sir. Also white knights make me sick.
Trpidation 8y ago
Would you mind posting the whole uncut video? I would be very interested in hearing the conversation(s) as well as seeing the fight.
raceAround126 8y ago
Quite simply due to doxxing, it's not something I am willing to do.
As it happens, it may be this situation is becoming a legal issue.
NidStyles 8y ago
Your existence threatened her control of him. You were the reason she lost it. She was seeing her "friend", women are never really friends with each other, get something she wanted, and you threatened the control of her relationship with that dude.
She's my kind of bitch :-)
[deleted] 8y ago
god damn you sound like such a faggot. Get your head out of your ass OP, you're not as cool as you think you are.
sodainthewatercup6 8y ago
In the west, they would have cuffed the boyfriend had you called 911.
raceAround126 8y ago
They would have done that in the UK too which was the one thing holding me back. I have seen that enough times as a bouncer.
ECoast_Man 8y ago
I think this is one for the vault. I actually had a full comment doing a play-by-play, but it was just me saying - you handled that perfectly over and over. So let's keep this as concise as possible.
I can't reiterate this enough - you obviously know how to maintain frame. I don't know what you did to get your FWB to recognize that, but you were clearly the high value man to all involved in this conversation. Great deflections, great shit test responses - well done.
These bitches are a dime a dozen. From my experience they are alpha-widows or cock-hungry feminists. Both of which hate submissive men (like poncho in this story) and love dominant men. This was clear. It seems obvious that YOU were the topic of conversation of the whole night, which literally brought her to blows with her beta.
Another observation- this wasn't a pure beta (like the fag white knight). He dreams of being a TRP man, but hasn't joined us. If he was a friend of yours (I know he's not) I sense this guy who be a good candidate to be recruited.
As for the rest of it - you were bearing witness to modern society. Alpha-widowed nutcase whose feelz overcame her, being literally violent over her frustration with her beta, then trying to pussy pass her way out of it. Of course all onlookers blame the dude. This is why women with mental health issues must be avoided at all costs.
Great FR. Thanks for sharing.
raceAround126 8y ago
Thank you for saying.
I think it was the Friend pushing more to discuss things out in the open like that.
As for the boyfriend, I would say you were half right. I think he was a player back in the day, I suppose a natural alpha as we would call it. But this chick was meant to be his settling down thing and I guess he felt he had to relinquish some control. It just seems he had gone too far with it.
At least he's recognized that what happened to him wasn't acceptable and is noping out of the whole situation.
ECoast_Man 8y ago
I have very little optimism for the uninitiated. If this guy was a natural alpha, he's almost certainly sticking around because she fucks his brains out to another planet. Many of these types will end up back where they started. But good luck to him.
Anyways you gotta look out for number one, and I don't have a thing to add.
Excellent FR. I hope to see more from you.
Surf_Or_Die 8y ago
You owned the situation. Nothing else could have been done in this day and age. A couple of decades ago the boyfriend could have slapped the shit out of the psycho bitch to make her calm down but alas we don't live in that time anymore.
It really sounds to me like she got jealous because her friend found somebody much more alpha than she did.
[deleted] 8y ago
Well you Americans and Brits. I know we from Eastern Europe are too aggressive sometimes. On the other hand you seem too meek to us.
But if this happened to ANY man here who isn't basement dweller, that bitch would get a really good slap to calm down a bit and white knights would also get their portion as well.
[deleted] 8y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm_niiQfeWc
StephMVPSplashBish 8y ago
These FRs about women being crazy are a waste of time. I believe it without needing a 5 page essay. I thought this place was about improving your approach towards women and live in general not an episode of The Real World
[deleted] 8y ago
Some guys like to take a beating. My wife's best friend has beat on her boyfriend more than a few times. And he's a tall guy. Last time it happened I asked him how he could be so pathetic. My wife chimed in about the one time she punched me in the lung after a weird fight where she sat on my back after I left the bedroom and laid down on the floor in another room (now I just go to a hotel room).
I looked at her and asked her if she remembered what I said. She replied "the next time is the last time." Just because I'm big and tough and have a bunch of scars, doesn't mean I'll be disrespected by a man or woman. The wife didn't mention it was because she caught me cheating while we were getting it on with another woman. The poor bitch beta only looked at us in disbelief and said something like "if Ariel let me sleep with other women then I'd take beating ocassionally." I replied back, "and that's why you are pathetic. A man takes what is his and doesn't apologize."
Eli-Thail 8y ago
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Ahah, oh wow.
Yeah, you're certainly taking what's yours there, lad, running away to hotels so that your wife doesn't pin you again.
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redkick 8y ago
As an idea, when you're trying to defuse the situation, tell your FWB to get her cellphone out and make a video. This solves two issues: It gets her out of the way, and you can prove that you didn't hit the offender (or that it was pure self defense when you do land a hit) to the prosecutor.
[deleted] 8y ago
And she gets to be told what to do...AND she gets to use her fucking phone...AAAND she gets to feel part of the team. Dude she wouldn't hesitate to do that. It's one of those times you tell someone to do something, but it's kind of a fun task so they immediately do it.
michael_wilkins 8y ago
Why would you not call the cops on her anyway?
ECoast_Man 8y ago
Why bother?
He was there, helped the dude out. Why spend the next two hours hanging out at the scene and then giving a statement?
Fact of the matter is, beta needs to break up with the bitch. He would be better off hanging out with him than getting the 5-0 involved.
VelociReactor 8y ago
In some cases (domestic disputes) it's required that the man be arrested regardless of the situation.
Unless you have video evidence or substantial support from friends/bystanders it's better to not call the cops unless you can't handle the situation yourself.
cariboo_j 8y ago
They'd probably arrest the guy first, ask questions later
Rogue-Knight2 8y ago
honestly, fuck cops.
On another note, the dude who got punched by his girl like a little bitch could have called the cops if he wanted to. It's not OP's job to save anyone.
I was hoping the FR was going to end with "she starts hitting him so I drove home, far, far away from drama"
BluepillProfessor 8y ago
If the dude had blood on his face I would have called the cops in a second. Women do this ALL the time.
[deleted] 8y ago
Sadly it's dangerous. As OP said there were people who started to have the story in their head that the girl got beat up.
YAISEDDIT 8y ago
I've saved my own ass by getting space and recording video with my phone. Even with video evidence there are no guarantees that I would have been believed but it would have helped.
Mofocheez 8y ago
And if a male is getting beat up by a woman, he will be seen as worthless by any bystanders as well as the police officers who respond.
Literally nobody gives a shit about a guy that weak.
Sementeries 8y ago
Hopefully the boyfriend gets his shit together and dumps that wench.
PeanutFlavor 8y ago
I think that's a cop-out though. Two people who personally know the couple fighting and know the motives etc would probably cancel out any of the shit some random bystanders could say. Yeah greater numbers, but the quality of evidence isn't on par. OP and his FWB can recount the entire night of the other couple. Add to that you've got a coed POV. Win.
raceAround126 8y ago
I have dealt with the police in the UK. As both a bouncer and (unfortunately) a customer.
There is a good cross-section of UK cops who are straight-up and good natured individuals. They know how where and when to apply the law and when to apply concession and are fine serving officers.
The sad fact is there are also more than a few cops - and i would hazard a guess that I'm referring to 50% if not more - that are complete pieces of shit. They are either completely braindead or have zero ability to interpret statements or evidence they are presented with. Those 50% are desperate to make an arrest or a charge maybe because their numbers are down (I don't know that, just a theory) or they are just power-crazed fucks who are the ultimate white knights. They have no interest in public safety, just enjoying their power.
The fact is if I had had called the cops, it would have been the boyfriend getting arrested. I know that myself from bouncer work in London. It's just automatic. I also know that if you are unfortunate enough to run into a piece of shit cop, he will do his best to nick you sometimes even for shit you didn't do. And technically in this situation, I may well have been exposing myself.
This is just straight up fact. The situation on Friday night was volatile enough with the by-standing Samaritans trying to shove their tiny dicks into the situation. Introducing cops would have increased that volatility ten-fold.
Added to that, after speaking to my FWB, I can assure you that while she would not lie outright I think it's unlikely she would do anything to incriminate her friend. In fact, I honestly doubt the boyfriend would have gotten her in trouble either.
I think it would well have been my lone word, three walls of silence and a bunch of "witnesses" who "saw the whole thing". I had my suspicions of this during the event itself and I was right by the sounds of it.
[deleted] 8y ago
You obviously have never dealt with the police in the UK... They'd be questioned for hours and at the end no charges would be pressed.
Mofocheez 8y ago
Two people who know the couple? You mean OP, a fellow man and member of The Patriarchyâ„¢, and OP's fwb? The fwb who is friends with abusive female?
I don't see the fwb helping the woman flip the script into "he beat her first" but would probably not involve herself in the discussion period. Look at her words: "she could get arrested."
At best, you have two males who claim that this girlfriend started the physical altercation, a silent female, a crying female who was just "abused" and bystanders filling in whatever gaps are left.
That might sound like a cop-out to you if you've never had the cops called on an abusive female. I have. You're armchair quarterbacking.
PeanutFlavor 8y ago
It's not as though the FWB was actively siding with her friend. Using the anecdote, it seemed quite the opposite actually. I also have doubts the law would take a bunch of riled-up white knights too seriously should they have been able to speak up. There'd have been holes in the story. Lots of them. But then again, this is the UK so there's intricacies at play that I'm not authorized to speak on. Just my 5c.
As for the armchair quarterbacking...making uneducated assumptions about the personal life of a stranger is not really a great idea.
Mofocheez 8y ago
Dude, the cuts, scratches, and active bleeding from my own girl beating my ass wasn't enough for the police to act. Hell, they even told me straight up that it was my fault.
Are you fucking kidding me right now? At best, the cops do nothing. At worst, the dude is getting canned for it. Been there, done that.
throwaway_holla 8y ago
You are correct. It is a cop-out.
Direct eyewitness calls while observing the assault. The guy had visible injuries; she did not. She will be arrested and almost certainly RO'ed. It is not "mutual combat;" it is misdemeanor assault.
White knights can come around and claim they think or are under the impression that he provoked her, etc., but will not respond to the officer's question by looking him in the eye and saying "YES, I saw him strike her."
[deleted] 8y ago
You have faith in the system. See how that works out for you.
throwaway_holla 8y ago
No, I have none. I just have experience.
[deleted] 8y ago
To be fair I have seen on cops, the injuries are important. If he has a bunch and she has none, she can't really say shit.
[deleted] 8y ago
"Men in England will act just as white-knight as you Americans it seems."
I lived in the UK for three years. Its worse there than here in the U.S. People in this day and age don't understand the concept of minding their own business but its worse in Europe and the UK.
[deleted] 8y ago
Maybe it's the guns that make the difference. We have a little voice in the back of our heads about strangers that sometimes keep up from intervening...in case he's packing.
[deleted] 8y ago
I think that may play a small role. But i think its more sutble than that. The US has always had a more independant culture, a predisposition to handle ones own buisness. As time goes on this has been wrung out of the culture untill it is a shadow of its former self. (Thanks feminists and fascists!) Even so its still noticeable in a general comparison of european and american culture. (Gun ownership would be another example)
SkorchZang 8y ago
Props on handling it so very well, and describing in detail so all can pick up their own lessons from it.
I think you do unconsciously realize the "boyfriend" got your beating for you, he took one for team man. That's why you helped, going out of your way. All that ugly ass rage was just redirected at him since you were not available. Fucking crazy that the FWB was going to put that bitch in your car man, it would've spelled absolute disaster if she still had more fight left in her.
[deleted] 8y ago
She offers the ride too? What makes you assume I want a crazy bitch in my presence, the hell?
DetectiveDing-Daaahh 8y ago
Good thing you didn't call the cops. That's literally asking to have White Knights with powers of arrest dispatched to your location.
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ECoast_Man 8y ago
Disagree. This isn't the men's rights sub. We are all well aware of the pussy pass here.
Why should he have done that? Stuck around, for hours, given a police statement, when nothing would come of it.
You know why this is pointless? Is because the victim in this case wouldn't fucking cooperate with officials, even if this was a good decision.
I stand by that he handled this perfectly, and if anything should have done less to help the dude. However, if we are going to go down the altruism road, he should have taken the guy aside, got his number and started the dark initiation to the red pill. This domestic violence situation wouldn't be stopped by the cops, but by the dude growing a set.
NiceTryDisaster 8y ago
A+ post. Thanks for writing and sharing it.
clozedcasketz 8y ago
Brilliant read OP. I find it quite sad that women feel entitled to lash out in a psychopathic fury at men because they've been conditioned not to hit them. It's like, "Oh, he's not gonna hit me, so I can go ballistic on him, and I can even claim to be the victim." If that friend had half a brain and some basic logic, she would have taken the situation in a non-physical manner, and most certainly not in a public place. Fuckin whore...
I personally would never hit a lady, but I'm not afraid to pummel the living shit out of a bitch such as that friend. Good call with dialing the cops threat, it put her in her place for sure.
MAX_Fury 8y ago
so the plate's friend was mad at you for having a FWB with her friend, hahaha, so did the guy who got beaten up go back to his psycho gf?
raceAround126 8y ago
I have no idea, I've not asked. My FWB left about an hour ago and I'm onto other things now.
GunsGermsAndSteel 8y ago
I was thinking about this too. He's probably already "trying to make it work" with her. Ugh.
we_need_more_lumber 8y ago
This post is full of faces that I want to punch.
nomames_bro 8y ago
wtf? you (correctly) weren't willing to put your hands on the aggressor eithrer...
Philhelm 8y ago
That's not plate territory. I think that sometimes people here stretch the definition of "plate" in order to look good for their RP peers.
I once knew a woman who, over the course of several years, I could call up on a whim, go to her place, and fuck. We never otherwise talked, we never went out together, we never ate together, we never watched TV together, I never met any of her friends, etc. By my definition, that would be a plate.
MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 8y ago
No sense quibbling over the semantics of it. Her position in the hierarchy of relationships is somewhere between FWB and "Official Girlfriend." Calling her a plate for purposes of this discussion is fine; in fact arguing for a strict/narrow definition of plate is just being pedantic at this point.
Polyamorists would call her a secondary; my own love life of parallel long-term main GF and long term plates I would call her a side-girlfriend. OP's story doesn't hinge on such fine granularity of her status.
rp_valiant 8y ago
Very well handled OP. It sounds like the shit could've hit the fan at multiple points but your firm control of the situation prevented it from escalating any further. It just goes to show that women and betas/WKs alike need a strong masculine presence to keep their emotions in check. I just feel sorry for the boyfriend - I've known guys that took a few swings from their girlfriends and stayed with them, and I hope he doesn't. I bet he will though, scarcity mentality is a scary thing to watch.
Boovs4life 8y ago
One of the best FRs I've read here in a while. Saving this for future reference.
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enkae7317 8y ago
Good, solid read.
Bitches be crazy.
RichieFinn 8y ago
"pub, nutter, arse, cab" ...are you English or American make your mind up!
Either way its obvious the "talking" shes been doing to her Friend was obviously about somehow becoming something more than a FWB to you.
[deleted] 8y ago
Looks like you handled this one really well. It's always a little frustrating to see how the general pop handles girls/guys when they're fighting in public.
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PaperbackParrot 8y ago
You have to surround yourself with enough woman (and men, for different reasons) to where you experience this multiple times with different people (i.e. woman). Remember, you are fighting possibly THE most powerful emotion any man has: Protecting woman. This is good for keeping the "tribe" alive, but terrible because woman manipulate this for their personal gain. It's understandable.
KissTheBridesmaid 8y ago
We all know how women despise weak men and your strong frame was a grim reminder of her boyfriends comparative weakness. Initially she took this out on you, but once you left her alone with the true subject of her disgust she fucking lost it. Great FR and good frame holding on your part.
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[deleted] 8y ago
I wonder how much of this is the tendency to put on a false-front of being a nice guy and caring about her, while secretly wanting to monopolise abuse of her.
FinallyRed 8y ago
God I can't believe the white knight paradigm. How do they expect to snag pussy in such situations? It shows a complete lack of understanding about women and social interaction. Also I recommend you use fake names for clarity. A bunch of pronouns kept getting jumbled.
Osoto_Gari 8y ago
Watch videos of fights on YouTube - it's very common for heroes to show up and break up the fight when the "good" guy starts winning. Whilst the bad guy is winning or has won - no one does a thing
OwlsExterminator 8y ago
They want public recognition not immediate pussy. It's a hero complex, they stand up for an apparent victim and society pats him on the back.
[deleted] 8y ago
I wish God was real in these situations. And just came in like:
Thou art subverting justice. Thy White Knight Faggot angel bashes his face in til it's unrecognizable. And now, may thou be a hero.
alpha_trainer 8y ago
How the fuck did you resist now breaking that whiny white knight bones?I get it that one can disrespect me once and I will ignore,but 3 times no fucking way.
ColdEiric 8y ago
When you stop giving a shit about morons, their nonsensical opinions, their cluelessness, you don't care about them and how they feel about things.
I'm a 'nerd', so I've spent years of being alone and odd and socially unaware and haven't understood shit, so I have spent enough time alone to not care about silly opinions. Disrespect from people I deem to be of lower intelligence and lower understanding doesn't bother me as much.
It's merely a question of 'Will I make the choice to care about this person's opinion of me and mine? Is it important for me to give a shit about this? Is this person's influence critical to my future?'
Yes, disrespect hurts and I prefer respect. But disrespect from a stupid white knight, from someone whose IQ is less than mine, from someone who lack wisdom or sense, from someone who isn't worth the time and energy to listen to, that's bearable to me.
In this FR, there were other more valuable things to focus on for OP. Seeking and begging for and working to get respect from morons, it just doesn't make your life better.
putin_vor 8y ago
Ok, so you beat up a guy in front of a dozen witnesses, they call the cops, you get booked, you will likely plead guilty, you get a criminal record and probably prison time, he sues you for pain and suffering and lost wages.
You need to learn to control your violent behavior. Use your brain.
Rogue-Knight2 8y ago
back it up.
What OP wanted: nice night out, sex.
What OP got: annoying night out, stupid shit, sex
What you suggest: annoying night out, stupid shit, fighting random assholes, maybe sex?
... you're allowed to fight whoever you want, but I doubt that's your plan when you leave the house. If you alter your plan because of stupid assholes you come off as a sensitive and quick to violence type.
Do you look up to men who are sensitive and quick to violence? Seriously, write down the names of like... 3 of the men you'd like to be like. If they're famous they have cameras in their face every day. Paparazzi calling them assholes for not getting good shots.
Are these men in the news frequently for beating the shit out of people?
No. No they're not. The men you admire/aspire to don't do the things you're suggesting.
Know who insists that disrespect must ABSOLUTELY be met with violence? Inmates.
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[deleted] 8y ago
fighting is a break in frame.
alpha behaviour doesn't need to fight anyone, it's only when the alpha lion is getting challenged for his position that it happens there.
you're also not talking about respect/disrespect, but ego. and ego is never your friend
alpha_trainer 8y ago
Ego is always your friend.That is why you want to fuck this whole world,make money and get women.Because of ego.
[deleted] 8y ago
Ego is the reason people blame women for their problems instead of owning their shit. Ego is the reason the hamster exists. Ego is that part of you that doesn't want your feelings hurt, and lies to you in order to make you feel better
Ambition is not ego.
raceAround126 8y ago
Where would that get me. Ignoring him and remaining unresponsive was far more effective.
ECoast_Man 8y ago
Correct answer. You're on a roll.
White knight beta faggots are best to be ignored. If things get testy I black knight them by calling them a fag or something. But that's like one in 99 (since the vast majority of men are white knight beta fags).
[deleted] 8y ago
I had been wondering the same thing. It's a pretty admirable response. I might have snapped on him, but you're right that would only have escalated the situation, and could even cast more blame on the boyfriend by proxy if you (the other man in the scene) looks violent, too. You made the right choice in just ignoring him--and I've learned something from this story, so thank you
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[deleted] 8y ago
Exactly, he will look like a creepy interloper or a child being ignored.
alpha_trainer 8y ago
I don't know what to say.Disrespect really gets to me and in open situations it's worse.
[deleted] 8y ago
I feel you so hard man this shit pissed me off, that doofy faggot standing there, so fucking thirsty for a whif of pussy that he cums his pants when he smells a bitch's perfume as she walks by.
But by NOT acknowledging him at all, you make him feel worthless. Make him feel like a silly interloper. He's a child yelling for attention and not getting any. It's even better that way.
SinisterSwindler 8y ago
Learn a lesson from me, I broke frame and broke a guys arm. As a result i was arrested, put on bail and am now homeless. Frame is everything.
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[deleted] 8y ago
I agree with you but in OPs situation it would just make things more complicated
Squeezymypenisy 8y ago
How old are you? Have you ever dealt with a civil suit? Or an assault charge? All of what you are saying will lead to those 2 outcomes.
alpha_trainer 8y ago
I didn't deal with an assault charge because I know how to look for cameras and don't fight in public.An I am 6'1 100 kg muscular,so I rarely get challanged.Now,I didn't say assault the guy,just intimidate him because of your stature and way of being.Asking him in a grounded way What did you say is not assault.
[deleted] 8y ago
The problem is it breaks frame. If you take the time to dignify the little shithead with a response, it means what he's doing is working. OP ignoring him was good, if OP engages whiteknight can escalate the situation for the moral good of "protecting women." By refusing to engage, whiteknight would have to escalate unprovoked making himself the aggressor and ruining the social image he is trying to cultivate in an effort to get pussy.
I've said it before, alphas should only ever fight/argue with other alphas. If you start a fight with a beta it will end badly. When you beat him up you're a bully, if you lose to him you weren't really an alpha. There aren't really any good outcomes.
alpha_trainer 8y ago
This may be true,but I bet that if you said to the guy in a cold manner,not angry just grounded"What did you say to me?Say again."he would either mumble something and left or left bc betas never want direct confrontation with stronger guys or bigger guys.Betas are passive,so there is no need to actually beat him,just command that slave to get out.
ECoast_Man 8y ago
Not true at all. I know a ton of betas who would respond with this with even more shit.
I have a theory for this - The primary reason is that schools have done away with bullying. Now, these skinny douches think they can lip off to anyone and there will be no retaliation. Bullying had an important role in teaching people not to lip off to others. Now we have an army of skinny betas attacking everyone online and in person.
Now, it doesn't mean don't give one a smack when its deserved. I just don't think what you're saying would shut them up.
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aDrunkenWhaler 8y ago
Some betas can be very aggresive and violent. A lot of frustrations built up and if they are physically strong and big they use force to prove their worth. Think of all the guys that turn violent after a few glasses and an unsuccessful night of clubbin. None of those are alpha.
alpha_trainer 8y ago
Ok guys you truly have to make the distinction between being violent and being assertive.They are two very different things.All of you here are thinking about beating the guy when I clearly did not suggested that.Ofc drunk fuck ups aren't alpha and in that situation is best to avoid.But in Op situation,is a different case.If the guy turned violent agains you when you telled him to fuck off and hit you,there is no consequence as you only defend yourself and have witnesses.I don't preach beating the guy,but trust me,being assertive is the way to go especially in public.Op acted ok,I have no issue with ignoring as a valid strategy,but don't fuck my words up.I suggested being assertive not being violent,big difference.
aDrunkenWhaler 8y ago
"What did you say to me? Say again." Is a passive-aggressive reply that can backfire if the guy has backup or he's looking for trouble. And most likely he has and he is, or at least believes that he can take you on, otherwise he won't be so aggressive in his 'white knighting'. Saying that line has a better chance of amplifying the situation than to defuse it, no matter how calmly you say it or how grounded you seem. OP did the right thing.
raceAround126 8y ago
I don't agree. If I had antagonized him with that, he would have pulled out that other beta trait of throwing himself under the bus if it meant showing face to pussy.
He would have responded in such a way to challenge me back only to get physical. This is what white knights want. They want to be able to get up after getting knocked down with an, "Oh my, I was just talking, look what this savage did to me. Police! ARREST THAT MAN!"
Confronting a white knight does nothing. Responding to a confrontation to people like that achieves nothing. AdmittedlyI learned that trick while I was a bouncer in London. You learn the stare doing a role like that. Either by watching other guys who have been in the game a long time, or the hard way by engaging dickheads like this.
The thing to remember is any confrontation with a white knight, the confrontation exists because you are already in charge. He wants to challenge that authority and to do so make you look weak. Even if it means taking a beating which he may well have provoked.
The dynamic changes if, and only if:
He throws the first hit
You respond with appropriate force only which does not mean belting several shades of shit out of him. An open fist to the side of the head is usually all that's needed
But all of that is last resort. Ignoring completely and maintaining body language is usually all that is required.
kragshot 8y ago
I have to admit that back in my bouncer and con security days, I had the most fun smacking around white knights. It would never fail; some psycho chick would either slap some guy, throw a drink in his face, or otherwise assault the fellow. The guy, of course would respond in some manner. Most guys in that situation will just try to restrain the psycho...hit/slap-backs tend to be rather rare unless you are in some "hive of scum and ratchetness" in "that side of town."
But if the poor SoB does anything other than take the assault and bow his head in contrition, she starts screaming and crying and everyone comes around and will start in on the poor guy.
So, being the bouncer, it's my job to break that pile of stupid up before it gets too bad. The easiest thing to do in that case is to pull the guy out of the mix and break visual contact with the psycho. Of course then this is usually when "Captain Save-A-Ho" shows up. It never fails; the dumb bastard will get in my face and scream at me about how I should help him beat the guy's ass. And when I deny him his "righteous wrath" against the "foul varlet," then he tries to challenge me. You will also usually get the "BFF chick" who will try to reach around you to get her cheap shot in on the guy as well.
In a situation like that, everyone only gets one warning to back off and then it's "two-finger-chop-to-the-throat or open-hand-slap-to-the-eyes time." Meanwhile, the initial victim has backed up and is letting me do my job. He understands that right now, I'm the only thing between him and the psycho and her minions or possible jail.
Before anyone gets all weepy and defensive, strikes like that do no real harm if you are properly trained (which I am) but instead cause the target to freak out and back off, consequently losing focus on their desire to attack you. You just want the assailant to back the fuck up and give you space. Techniques like that work perfectly and do not cause permanent damage to the target.
But more times than not, the douchebag who gets thrown out of the bar or kicked out of the con is the white knight who gets involved in some bullshit that a drunk psycho-chick has started up. The idiot is so convinced that by throwing himself out there like that, pussy will just "rain from the heavens" and reward him for his chivalry.
Side story
Speaking of "hives of scum and ratchetness," at one "Bucket of Blood" I was working at, I ended up having to save this white knight from getting fucked up when he decided to get in the middle of some genuine "pimp-shit." Pimp was "checking" his bitch for challenging him and fucking up. White knight stepped into "pimp business" not knowing the "P" when it was evident to everyone else.
He laid hands on the pimp, pimp pulled out a nickel-plated .380 and was about to put one in the guy's head. His bitch had circled behind and pulled out a straight razor with the intention of cutting the dumb bastard who "laid hands on her daddy." Poor motherfucker me got in the middle of that pack of WTF and convinced the pimp that "it wasn't worth getting the police involved" if he shot that bastard. The manager okayed me getting the pimp a bottle on the house so he wouldn't kill the idiot, while I dragged him out of the bar. And the irony was that the dumb fuck was still trying to fight me on it and go back in, not knowing the real and present danger he was in. Fucking white knights...I swear.
BTW...I got a $250 bonus from the manager that night for defusing what could have been a truly fucked up situation and another $200 from the pimp out of respect.
plein_old 8y ago
Awesome... my sensei used to say a quick hand towards the face is often the best first move in a real situation. Not to hurt anyone but to get their attention.
He used to give lessons to cops and bouncers on how to disarm someone without killing them.
Great story man.
(edited to add couple details)
moonlandings 8y ago
You are 100 correct. This is definitely the way to deal with the situation and something I've learned while bouncing as well. My issue is I love fighting. Even if I get my ass kicked it's still fun for me. Hard to turn down an opportunity to scrap.
[deleted] 8y ago
You really shouldn't be a bouncer with that attitude
moonlandings 8y ago
There is such a thing as self control. I was merely opining that I wished I didn't have to control myself.
Infinitezen 8y ago
One day, you might get your ass kicked for no reason if you start fights for no reason. Alternately, you might kick someones ass and face real legal trouble for it. Neither is worth it.
alpha_trainer 8y ago
No one started a fight.If you don't assert yourself you will never be respected.I don't go looking for fights but I respect myself enough not to take shit.Having a guy talk all over me is taking shit,and that is not the way I like to live.
PeanutFlavor 8y ago
Like the others I gotta disagree with that. You seem to be using your pride and your ego when considering these situations and not your brains. Being a reactionary person is not really the path RP aims to send you/us on. It's not going through life flailing yourself around like that for the sake of appearing alpha in the immediate sense; you doing that actually showcases that you're easily rattled by stress.
I strongly believe that restraint is the one of the most vivid indicators of (amused) mastery.
IFuckingHateAllergy 8y ago
That's your pride and ego talking. I've learned to shed that to ultimately give the most logical response every single time.
WillWorkForLTC 8y ago
Yeah chances are that white knight would respond like most people to our aggression: he would fuck off. The odd chance he fights back just let him swing first and then you're defending yourself.
You don't want a fight folks but trust me, others want it even less than you.
alpha_trainer 8y ago
90%of the time he would run like the little bitch he is.
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uxl 8y ago
You did amazingly well. Probably better than I would have done in your shoes. Hindsight is 20/20, but I wish you would have recorded the attack AND called the cops. Get that cunt behind bars for the legit assault that men so often are falsely accused of.
MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 8y ago
Top-tier FR, OP; great job writing.
I notice critics in the comments about OP not going straight to calling the police. He used this credible threat to obtain the necessary defusing and control of the situation, without going over.
I can't speak for the UK, but in the USA, it's like the police aren't there for peace and justice, but to get SOMEONE into the system and to ultimately keep them there by any means. OP did right by keeping the police out unless absolutely necessary.
NightwingTRP 8y ago
Exceptional FR. Personally I think situations like these have no perfect way to handle them given the way the law operates (i.e. in some domestic abuse situations, after the woman has hit the man and there is a visible sign of injury, the police will just arrest the man without any questions.) You did extremely well OP.
As practical advice for all Red Pill men... if any woman you're involved with shows signs of attempting violence against you, it is an automatic hard next regardless of circumstances. No ifs or buts.
My interpretation of this FR reminds me of something similar which happened to me, without the escalation to violence. I would say that she saw your high SMV and resented what she couldn't have. Attempts to shame you would have demonstrated you were beta and so nothing to want anyway. But you held frame and batted away her nonsense very well. So were obviously not beta. As she gets more and more upset about the fact you're high SMV and she can't have you, she throws a temper tantrum like the child she is and then lays into her punching bag... literally.
Women will call high SMV men "asshole" in two different tones of voice depending on where they perceive their own SMV. He's an asshole with a smile and adoring eyes if she thinks he's within reach. He's an asshole with venom and hatred if his SMV is too high for her and she can't have him. (Therefore must sabotage him and make sure he gets with no woman. But that never works. It's just petulant childish behaviour driven by jealousy. Or maybe it's the old fallacy about "I don't want that" which you couldn't have anyway.)
I've received both statements in a night before with a mate, his gf and her friend. My mate was well aware that I did nothing remotely different or offensive either at the start or end of the night. However his gf cock blocked me expertly. Her friend was lapping up the kino and taking pictures with me... (Then begging for it not to be put up on facebook because "they'll know I slept with him." -yes, I found that particular choice of words interesting too, so it stuck in my memory.) then goes to the bathroom and when she comes back I brush against her arm and she practically cried rape. While my mate wouldn't blame his gf, he certainly noticed a very distinct shift in her friend's behaviour. He'd seen her lapping up my attention earlier and figured she was just a crazy woman. We know better gentlemen. My mate's gf must have subtly hinted that her friend's social status would have been at risk if she continued enjoying herself with me. Standard cockblock. But I'd say there's similar feminine hypergamy influences causing it.
peoplearejustpeople9 8y ago
Wow, the way you put it makes me think it wasn't her fault. Like she wasn't in control of herself. So, it'd be unethical to put her in prison because she was just following her female prerogative and the boyfriend was just under control of society and thus couldn't hit her to put her in her place. I hope this doesn't make me sound like a White Knight because this brings up issues about male violence as well.
Correctional facilities should be more than just cages.
ECoast_Man 8y ago
This is exactly what is going on. I said elsewhere- she is either alpha-widowed or just a cock hungry feminist. Women hate submissive betas like her BF. Her feelz overcame her.
throwaway_holla 8y ago
"We know better, gentlemen."
Without the comma it means "We know gentlemen who are better".
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breakingbadrule 8y ago
Nobody mentioned this part here, so I am going to say it here for visibility. I think that making the boyfriend call his friend to spend the night was especially helpful on OPs part. We all say here that we are not here to help others and that RP is a personal journey and that's fine. But what I see here is a constant effort by the Endorsed Contributors, the Vanguard, the mods and the likes of people like OP, to help others. In my opinion what OP did to the boyfriend by making him spend the night with his friend probably saved the boyfriend more than what we can imagine. It might look like a minor detail in this whole incident, but it's not. If OP had not done that, the boyfriend could have been in jail charged for assault or worse RAPE!! I'm not asking you guys to start helping out your blue pill friends or anything, and do not do anything that might jeopardize your own well being. I'm just pointing out what OP did.
ZippyTheSpaceMonkey 8y ago
maybe this is where harpy feminazis are. Their SMV is so low that all men must be shamed.
NightwingTRP 8y ago
This is actually a complex one because it's really obvious that a lot of feminists are not attractive. So it's tempting to put the whole thing down to an attempt to subvert the SMP because of the fact that feminism has had a significant impact on both the SMP and RMP.
However you've got to remember that women play everything between the lines. It's never up front. This is why womanese is such a needlessly complex and sometimes contradictory language. Once you reconcile this with the way women drag down competition, while men try to exceed the competition... you'll start to get an idea of why a creature that is mostly led by her emotions of the moment, will try to play nice with a man they like one minute and then try to tear him down in a jealous rage the next. The jealousy is the unique factor here. Women will typically disqualify themselves from pursuing men who are significantly above their SMV because they know it will hurt their social status for appearing to have such poor social skills. (i.e. they can't read the signals or the sexual hierarchy and are therefore of low value. It's similar to a man who can't game for shit. Once he's found out, his poor social skills make his SMV plummet.)
However the emotions strike in a moment where she feels entitled to have the attention of a man and his SMV is in range, then she suddenly realises that it isn't. Her perceptions of the gap were false and the ego defence mechanisms jump into play, getting the hamster running to protect her image of her SMV - the hamster does have a purpose for women to ensure they keep their standards high and only accept a high quality partner... even when they're shit. Hence the 20/80 rule regardless of the fact that a woman's SMV falls on a scale which demonstrates a normal distribution. Irrational things can usually be explained as rational if they are pragmatic.
fingerthemoon 8y ago
What's RMP? I searched urbandictionary and the Updated Glossary of Terms and Acronyms with no answer found.
Relationship Market Place? Real Market Place?
NightwingTRP 8y ago
Winner winner, chicken dinner.
The RMP isn't discussed much on here these days. I am not so certain why... there is an excellent collection of LTR game posts from years back, but not so much anymore.
fingerthemoon 8y ago
Thanks for your time to answer and your contributions to the betterment of man.
[deleted] 8y ago
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NightwingTRP 8y ago
This is an excellent point and a good catch. Part of what feminism tries to do is a sort of unionisation of pussy. They try to force the best deal regardless of how talented the worker is. So the laziest, loosest, ugliest pussy can still charge top dollar despite giving inferior service.
Not only does a woman giving up sex so easy lower the price of sex which is bad for women as a whole in terms of their bargaining position. A girl who is an SMV 6 sees a man she would like to have commitment from. She then sees an SMV 7 or 8 giving him sex without commitment... she is literally priced out of the market completely. If other men she desires cotton onto this... it doesn't matter that her SMV is 6 and it's higher than a girl who is a 4, she's still quite literally worthless in the marketplace because everything she wants to buy is priced at 8 or above. This is quite literally a woman's worst fear.
anon445 8y ago
Is "cottoned on" a slang term or something? Both you and op said it, and I can't tell if they're coincidental typos or they mean something on their own.
fingerthemoon 8y ago
To get to know or understand something. Origin
The phrase 'cotton on to', with the above meaning, appears to be limited in usage to the UK and other countries that were previously part of the British Empire, notably Australia and New Zealand. In the USA, especially in the southern states, 'cotton to' is used, with the slightly modified meaning of 'take a liking to'.
As early as 1648, in a pamphlet titled Mercurius Elencticus, mocking the English parliament, the royalist soldier and poet Sir George Wharton used 'cotton', or as it was spelled then 'cotten', as a verb meaning 'to make friendly advances'. 'Cotten up to' and 'cotten to' were both used to mean 'become friendly with'. Whether this was as a reference to the rather annoying predisposition of moist raw cotton to stick to things or whether it alluded to moving of cotton garments closer together during a romantic advance isn't clear. John Camden Hotten, in his Slang Dictionary, 1869, opted for the former derivation:
The number of citations that use 'cottening' in a courtship context and the use of the 'cottening up' variant would suggest the latter is more likely; for example, William Congreave's comic play Love for Love, 1695:
The attaching of cotton strands to the bobbins of weaving looms is sometimes also cited as a source of 'cottoning on', but there appears to be no basis for that notion. None of the early citations of the phrase mention that context.
'Cottoning on' as we now use it derives from the meaning of 'attaching oneself to something', specifically an attachment to an idea that we haven't encountered before. It would seem to be a reasonable bet that at least one of the variants of this phrase would have been coined in one of the major English-speaking cotton producing regions of the world, for example India or the USA. Not so; which gives more credibility to the notion that this phrase has little to do with the cotton plant. 'Cotton to' was coined in the UK and the first widespread uses of 'cotton on to' were in New Zealand and Australia. The earliest example that I can find of this is from the New South Wales newspaper The Maitland Mercury & Hunter River General Advertiser, March 1883, reporting on a local horse race:
This citation was closely followed by a reference in a New Zealand newspaper The Wanganui Herald, June 1893:
It seems that 'cotton to', 'cotton on to' all derive from the same root source, that is, the verb 'to cotton'. In the UK and its antipodes it has settled down as 'cotton on to', with the meaning 'form an understanding of' and in the USA it is 'cotton to', with the 'take a liking to' meaning.
Paid_Internet_Troll 8y ago
It's regional slang. I heard it a lot growing up in the Midwest, and also hear it a lot from people who were raised in the South, but almost nobody from the West or Northeast uses it.
mrrooftops 8y ago
Most of the Angloshpere use it.
NightwingTRP 8y ago
Yeah, it's a colloquial phrase. Means realising something which isn't obvious.
Use Google next time. You're here to ask questions, sure... but not ones you can find out on your own. Try your own research before asking questions in the future. You need to start taking the lead in your own masculine development.
throwaway_holla 8y ago
Correct, it's a colloquialism that's as good a form of birth control as "m'lady."
mrrooftops 8y ago
You have no idea what you are talking about.
throwaway_holla 8y ago
Please prove that. What do you base that statement on?
mrrooftops 8y ago
I think the onus is on you to prove your statement first. Yeah. I used the word 'onus'. Hold my drink while I talk to the HB9 that told me you haven't 'cottoned onto' the fact she doesn't like you.
throwaway_holla 8y ago
Right, that's why you're posting on reddit and using terms like "HB9": because you have a hot babe talking to you. About me, no less! Haha
mugatucrazypills 8y ago
Fucking animal Safari out there. Don't get out of the car.
[deleted] 8y ago
White knights are so fucking annoying. They want to be the big hero, but in reality are just sexually frustrated beta orbiters.
Manmore 8y ago
Even if their damsel in distress doesn't need saving, they're there, just in case.
I hit a girl I know on the forehead with a fucking balloon in a club, and she was giggling and hugging me. IMMEDIATELY a white knight comes up to me.
"Don't hit women!!!!"
"It's a fucking balloon"
"It's not about that, it's about the fact that you are hitting her. Blablabla violence against women and patriarchy stuff, displaying of power"
Even the girl told him to fuck off
Stythe 8y ago
You should have beaten his ass with a balloon. That'll learn em.
[deleted] 8y ago
A balloon? Jesus...these guys are getting thirsty.
[deleted] 8y ago
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[deleted] 8y ago
This is hollywood in a nutshell.
ECoast_Man 8y ago
Decking white knights isn't the way to go. I've taken to just black knighting them. I go with deliberately inflammatory shit, at least in this type of situation where I don't just ignore them as usual. Something like-
'Stop being a faggot, that bitch over there just punched this guy in the face. Fuck off'.
Something like that. White knights are typically part of the liberal left so they hate words like fag and bitch and so on.
[deleted] 8y ago
thats true, but the guy brought the situation on himself 100%. there are crazy retarded bitches out there, but i bet if this girl was with someone who wasnt a beta faggot she wouldnt act up like this
he helped encourage her to get to this level, and even to the point where she thinks hitting him is ok. i cant even imagine how beta you have to be where she can consider hitting you and not be terrified of the outcome.
and then when you add in white knights, you never will have a chance to get back to where you should have been in the relationship because she wont tolerate you 'rising up' and her beta fuckboys will try to stop you
OP fucked up as well, you dont want to be around that situation. you dont want to 'help' the beta boyfriend, because even he was defending the gf that beat him up. you dont want to be around a crazy bitch like that. honestly, you dont even want a plate who brings trash like that around you. the retarded gf could have started hitting OP and whiteknights wouldve said OP was the guilty one, there's some jailtime.
lesson - dont associate with betas/bitches like this. at all
[deleted] 8y ago
Reading this you picture so many fucking AFC's at the club who do shit like this. So fucking thirsty and pathetic. Like has that ever worked for them for a girl who's above a 4? So fucking wack.
KissTheBridesmaid 8y ago
I fucking hate there guys who show up after a fight and act all tough like they were the ones who sorted it out. In the balkans there's a saying: 'after the war, everyone's a hero'
caesarfecit 8y ago
That's a good saying. The chicken-hawks always show up after it's been decided.
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royal_fucktard 8y ago
Reading about that creep in the story made me want to hit him with a baseball bat, bear jew style.
If I was OP in this situation a genuine beat down would have ensued as I cannot hold frame nor tolerate such bitch behavior out of a man.
Spidertech500 8y ago
OP Is a wiser man than most
[deleted] 8y ago
I know it. The problem is, then you break frame publicly and the legal consequences can be pretty horrendous. I try to think of guys like this as the Westboro Baptist Church...the more you express anger at them, the more their power grows because you're acknowledging they affect you.
cariboo_j 8y ago
This reminds me of the Karpman Drama Triangle
The main roles are Victim, Persecutor and Rescuer.
This dynamic commonly plays out in dysfunctional families or couples. It describes conflict borne out of the participants' own dysfunction and ego, not actual, unavoidable conflict.
The White Knight wants play the Rescuer role... so he goes around looking for a female Victim and a male Persecutor to save her from. He is himself dysfunctional/out of touch with reality because he'll rush into a situation and project Victim and Persecutor status onto people without knowing the full context.
If you engage with a White Knight and strike him first, you've been sucked into his frame. You're acknowledging his role as the Rescuer and yourself as the Persecutor.
The only way to not get sucked into his little game is to refuse to engage. If he persists and strikes you first, then he gets framed as the Persecutor and you become the Victim.
Stythe 8y ago
I found this whole trying to figure out wtf happened to me while I was with my last ex and it explained a lot. I did some searching for unconscious behavioral patterns and found them as well as where they were developed. From there, learning to be okay with failing became a huge part of my life. It still is.
[deleted] 8y ago
Refusal to engage is best. It will also belittle him and make him feel fucking stupid for trying to be a rescuer.
Good, helpful post.
Spidertech500 8y ago
huh, thats a very interesting point, thank you, i'll have to look more into this
cmkinusn 8y ago
Everyone should click that link immediately and read the theory portion at the very least. It is amazing how thoroughly this distills the roles of each "actor" in an abusive relationship, politics, feminism, the female imperative, etc.
peoplearejustpeople9 8y ago
I wonder, would this kind of stuff be taught in a sociology field at college?
Momo_dollar 8y ago
https://youtu.be/XNrWuZV3jjw social experiment when a woman abuses a man and he restrains her.
[deleted] 8y ago
cuz we need more rage in this thread
Momo_dollar 8y ago
Only rage I see is in the bullyng white knighr who attacks the guy at the end, when previously watching and laughing.
BluepillProfessor 8y ago
Women demand equality knowing full well that men favor women and women favor women and knowing that "equality" is not "equal" at all. They like it that way.
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stop_talking_ 8y ago
She got mad at her boyfriend for not being able to turn her on like you did.
holytrpbatman 8y ago
Update us when crazy friend let's you know she wants you to bang her.
VelociReactor 8y ago
Yeah and then claim rape afterwards when the BF finds out.
Sementeries 8y ago
I'm hoping OP wouldn't fuck her crazy ass with a stolen dick.
dancing_junkie 8y ago
Who doesn't like a good hate fuck.
Uptonogood 8y ago
There's something always said about sticking your dick in crazy.
[deleted] 8y ago
"Just do it"
No... that's not it...
squidracer 8y ago
Sounds like your FWB wants commitment. That's why her friend was bugging you about it. Most likely something they talked about amongst themselves
tyrryt 8y ago
They're all looking for commitment, always, no matter what they say.
[deleted] 8y ago
probably, she seems loyal and enjoys passing and proving her loyalty to OP which is usually a sign she wants the "next step'
ColdEiric 8y ago
I'm sure that her friend was recruited to push commitment from him. If she would have done her instead, she'd be a sad FWB looking to upgrade. But now when her friend did it for her, she could pretend that she didn't want it.
Squeezymypenisy 8y ago
The last conversation at night and lmr seemed to indicate she wants it. She was challenging op to see how he would take the player moniker.
SkorchZang 8y ago
Of course she wants it. Been in similar "relationship interrogation" situations before, always starts innocent enough but the essense of it is aggressively shaming a man into submission to the feminine imperative. And conveniently, it seems to only happen when "she is ready". Tongue in cheek we could note here how, when I was ready to fuck, not a single woman or man was anywhere in sight to shame my plate about not sleeping with me soon enough. But NOW they all magically come out of the woodwork when the plate is ready to commit, like clockwork.
I wasn't as handy at defusing it with A&A as OP here was, damn the guy was good. In my situation, I responded by trying to shut the interrogation down - "none of your business" etc. That was not a wise move in hindsight, I almost lost a plate, because the public shaming from her 2 friends gave her the excuse to get bitter at me afterward and "feel like she deserves more".
These fucking bitches.
fingerthemoon 8y ago
"I want to get back together but I don't know what to tell my friends." - My last LTR
She had a tendency to complain about me to the point where her friends talked her into ending it. She's now 31 and with a 'good on paper' guy who gives her zero tingles. I'm the asshole who was good in bed but not husband material.
None of her friends are attractive to me and know they could never be with a guy like me. Crabs in a bucket. I think my ex was the only one of her friends getting good sex on the regular. They hate me for no other reason than being independent and in control of my life. I wasn't worthy because I wouldn't commit, even though I proposed I wouldn't go through with the marriage until some things had changed and we'd been engaged for 3 years at that point. Feel like I dodged a bullet as I ill never be getting married now that I better understand.
Now that I think of it, her younger sister is definitely fuckable and she used to admire my skills, especially with dog training. She has a really good looking husband who is a personal trainer but apparently the sex sucks and he doesn't please her. I know she wanted to fuck me, especially after her sister telling her how good the sex was. I was surprised that she turned on me ass well. Maybe it was a jealousy thing?
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Sir_Distic 8y ago
Care to explain? Because this is clearly the right way to hold frame in this situation.
Statecensor 8y ago
Why do you assume your FWB and her friend did not work this out beforehand? Its an extremely common chick tactic and its a lot more likely then her friend just coming out of noplace with these questions. Your FWB's nervous behavior could be from being embarrassed she had to use another woman to get you to try and commit to her. I suspect this is less a FWB chick and more likely one that is hungry for you to take it to the next level in her eyes. I suspect her reaction towards her boyfriend came from being embarrassed she could not get you to trap yourself into making this FWB a LTR and his refusal to treat you as a dick and support her.
Keep an eye on this FWB she could start to turn rotten because of wanting more then FWB from you.
[deleted] 8y ago
Thaaaaat's what the fight was about.
[deleted] 8y ago
"Sod that we should just call the cops on her now!"
Think: what better way to "put you in your place" then to invent a DV story where two mean, assertive guys ganged up on one innocent little female?I don't think she planned the fight, but there's a reason she was swinging. How many fights would YOU start if you knew 99% of cops wouldnt jail you no matter what?
The FWB might take your side....or take her friends. Either way youd be going downtown with your buddy. The shit might get cleared up in court....or youd have to plea bargain to avoid getting fucked by the system.
Next; this sounds like a scheme which got out of hand. The FWB didn't invite you to go with this girl and her BF for kicks. It's total "Double Date " frame, and it was done for a reason. FWB doesn't sound dumb- she knows directly confronting a high value dude about commitment is a signal for you to pull the EJECT lever on the whole shebang.
So, she has her friend play the Bag Man. She's the one assigned with the ugly but necessary duty of shit testing your status and extorting commitment from you. Where things went awry is you making fun of the girl and her BF taking your side. The Bag Man lost her shit instead of staying on mission.
General rule of thumb; there is a time limit on all FWB interactions. Female/male associations are always transactional. As such, women know all too well instinctually about opportunity cost. Every moment with you costs your FWB potential access to a high value BetaBucks she could be plating instead, which means even the smoothest players might get a year out of things before the "Plomo o Plata" speech. That's a Spanish phrase meaning "lead or silver", and that's the endgame of every FWB after a certain point . Either you continue the relationship by offering her the Plata , Silver. Or you execute the interaction by walking (the lead).
From now on, in your shoes I'd make plans for the Plomo o Plata speech any day now, especially with her friend having blown up publicly like that. If you've got any shared accounts ,belongings, etc change or retrieve them now.The fact that your FWB used Law 26 should clue you in to the fact she is not to be underestimated.
MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 8y ago
Useful info in general, but I think you really misread OP's specific situation. Thanks for introducing the concept of plomo o plata.
carnage_panda 8y ago
Anyone will attack you if provoked enough. If I go over to my friend's house and start busting his TV, set fire to his couches and burn the whole thing down, I'm certain he'd fight me.
[deleted] 8y ago
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[deleted] 8y ago
I wish there was a serial killer who preyed specifically on White Knights
idahar 8y ago
Every time I hear stories like this where a white knight jumps in and assumes the worst of the man and is ready to throw fists, I get furious. I lose all frame and all I can think of is how I would smash the guy's skull into the pavement so hard even plastic surgery couldn't have helped him. And you know why I'm angry? It's not because he's an assumptive idiot fucking with other people's business, but because I would have been that same assumptive idiot had I not changed. I would've been the same guy who comes in thinking he knows best. I'm so angry for feminized society having turned me into their personal beta pet for nearly 20 years under the guise of "doing the right thing" and "women should never be hit." Every time I hear about beta orbiters and thirsty white knight pussies beating up a guy because he dumped some chick or hard swiped her, I wish I could be there to help the guy and beat the shit out of those fucking plugged in cucks, so they may actually realize they've been played by some overemotional princess complex bitch and wake the fuck up. Inb4 edgy teen. I'm just going through the anger phase. (Extreme anger phase)
[deleted] 8y ago
It makes me irrationally mad, too.
Soldier_of_Misfortun 8y ago
Several points:
Sdom1 8y ago
The most ridiculous part was how the boyfriend was the only one with injuries, and opportunistic fuckstains were looking for an excuse to jump on him after that. This reminds me of why I'm glad I don't party that much anymore, dumb people pulling you into dumb situations.
[deleted] 8y ago
The dude standing there? How would that situation have even led to him ever getting pussy? Like even if there's infinite universes, I don't see one where that gets him laid.
Oh thank you for standing nearby, I'll leave this guy I went out with for this random faggot who stood awkwardly nearby in a parking lot!
J_AsapGem 8y ago
" The same white knight, obviously on the hunt for pussy " lol this made my day.
chad_starr 8y ago
Handled the situation as any man should have. No need to fight random strangers over nothing. Where op went from stand up guy to rp hero is when he wouldn't let fwb get away with defending psycho friend with the "shed been hurt before" line when in actuality she'd just been apha widowed and op's actions were triggering her. Lmao.
drummmmmergeorge 8y ago
You can't expect people to aid you in a forbiddantic fight, as you did, watching for two minutes. Bystander effect, is a real pushover. Especially in China, due to public policy.
I'm surprised you even tolerated that. I used to hang out with idiots and have idiotic problems arise, but that's all in the past now. Smooth sailing for here on out. Hope you learned your lesson.
[deleted] 8y ago
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raceAround126 8y ago
What was he to do though? I think he behaved as perfectly as could be. He was in public, people were watching, he had no option but to put up with it. Had he thrown a punch back, guarantee ten guys would have been holding him down waiting for the cops to come.
It isn't about pussying out, it's about realizing consequences.
Sensibly he took my advice and phoned a friend to go and stay with. Hopefully his friend and him will have talked about what happened and if has any sense, he would be making plans to get her out of his life completely. No recourse, no explanation.
MattyAnon Admin 8y ago
Very good work all round OP, but you failed to correctly ascertain the Primary Aggressor. You have clearly not been properly police trained. Go through this checklist until you find the correct protagonist, and make sure to get him arrested next time:
RPmatrix 8y ago
mate you handled that superbly! respect.
The only thing you might have done earlier was to go the A&A route with your FWB and start saying "hey babe let's get married, Vegas, tomorrow!" and start playing the 'forever committed charade', it sounds' like your FWB would've played along and that night have diffused that BPD bitches flipping!
well played, nonetheless. Are you an Aussie bro?
dogextraordinaire 8y ago
He's British by the sounds of it.
RPmatrix 8y ago
aussies write ass 'arse' too ... sounds too relaxed to be British
raceAround126 8y ago
Haha. I'm Irish living in London.
RPmatrix 8y ago
haha! See, I knew it! You make no sense, just like most Aussies!
Have you ever been to Oz? (half ya bloody country folk seem to have!)
I've got some great friends from Galway and Cork that I lived with for a year, although it took me about two months before i could understand wtf you guys were saying! hehe!
throwaway_holla 8y ago
Not an attack here. Kudos to you for handling it mostly very well.
Constructive observations:
FWB's girlfriend
yet you:
Boom. You relented. You gave into her frame, and submitted to what she wanted, not what you should have done.
When one person beats up another it's your responsibility to call the cops, period. Regardless of whether it's a woman or a man doing the beating. It is not your job to play judge and jury, especially when you are under the control of your FWB who is showing bias for her friend rather than the law.
Second mistake:
Whoa, a good few minutes?? You told her you were leaving and then gave into her begging/pleading frame. That tells her and everyone else that you don't mean the things you say and can be swayed by begging and pleading. When you say "I'm leaving now" you better mean it.
Again, kudos and this is not an attack on you, just constructive input.
plein_old 8y ago
omg... dude. Just my opinion but I could not disagree more.
[deleted]
Realworld52 8y ago
OP did a good job with the entire situation. Your constructive observation is crap. He should not have called the cops like a little bitch, if he would be allowed to punch back - it would be the last time that female attacks a male. 1 sided acceptable abuse needs to go and the cops won't fix it. At least OP lives in the realworld rather than giving feedback to someone else's story.
throwaway_holla 8y ago
Right, right, men are little bitches if they call the cops on a woman who is breaking the law and committing assault to the point that she busts the guy up, LOL
raceAround126 8y ago
Actually back from when I was doing door security in London, we used to threaten police presence all the time. Nothing shuts up a psycho quicker than the thought of a cop coming blind into the proceedings and them not being able to explain away their stupidity.
IF the girl was in any way clued up herself, she probably would have realized that there was a chance she could turn it on the boyfriend if she so decided.
throwaway_holla 8y ago
Right, but that's not the point. Should she get a pussy pass and have nobody hold her accountable for her actions because she's a woman? Show me where this A) is part of the law, and/or B) makes any sense whatsoever, and/or C) is in his best interest, and/or D) in any way didn't hurt him by caving to her frame
raceAround126 8y ago
Sure. In an ideal world she would be held accountable and have been prosecuted to within the extent of the law.
But it's not an ideal world, it's this world. And as a man you can't be blind-sighted by the ideal when it's not reality. Nobody will recognize your heroic attempts to change the system especially if you are already the villain which, as the male of the species, you already are!
throwaway_holla 8y ago
I have far more experience with the law and domestic violence than you. This much is obvious.
I never said, nor do I think, it's an ideal world. I never advocated any heroic attempts to change the system. So don't try to put words in my mouth.
Read what I wrote. It's unedited. I never said anything of the things you're trying to claim I did, by how you answer.
She is accountable for her actions. As for whether she is HELD accountable is a different story. You are advocating giving her a pussy pass. That is a really bad idea.
You also mention "Nobody will recognize your heroic attempts to change the system!" First off, as not just a man but a human being, your actions should NEVER be based on whether you get recognition. That is absolute sheep, aka beta, behavior.
Second, you should act as you will act, regardless of whether you get noticed and regardless of whether the responding officer does his job or not.
You know why some women get a pussy pass sometimes? Because of cowardly behavior by people like you who perpetuate it and espouse perpetuating it.