I’ve recently been struggling with the amount of sex/affection in my LTR. I’ve been with my girl for 4 months, but we have never had the intense physical attraction/crazy sex marathons that I’ve had in past relationships. She’s never been one to initiate sex or anything else physical really, like kissing, hugging, holding hands, etc. Great personality and super attractive, but is horrible at showing affection. Things have gotten better over time, but nowhere close to the standards that I hold for the women that I date.
This all came to a head when we hung out earlier this week. I showed up to her place and give her a couple of kisses. She cooked me dinner and we met one of my female friends out later at a bar. Held hands on the way back from the bar. She fell asleep on the couch and we went to bed without having sex. For me this is almost unheard of, especially 4 months into a relationship.
Something inside of me snapped. There was no way that this kind of precedent was going to be set. I really like this girl, but there is no way I’m going to continue a relationship with no physical or sexual action. I went into Dread Game mode. Not because I consciously deployed the tactics, but because the red pill flows through me so much, it was the only way my body knew how to react to the situation.
The next morning, I woke up, got ready for work and slipped out the door without saying much and without a kiss or my usual ass grab. I went no contact. Two days later she texts me and asks if I want to go golfing with her friends. I say I’m not interested, I’ve got some things I need to work on and that she should go without me.
She ends up cancelling those plans with her friends because she doesn’t want to go without me. She ends up going to a bar with some co-workers. She invites me, I say I’m busy but I’ll stop by when I’m done. When I show up, I once again don’t give her any attention or affection. I sit farther away from her than I normally would. We’re on an L shaped couch and I sit on the other side of the L, arms spread out on the back of the couch, like a king surveying his kingdom. I give my attention to everything in the room except for her. She asks if I want a drink, I say not right now, I’ll grab one in a bit. She keeps asking me questions, keeps seeking my attention, while I answer her in short, uninterested bursts.
One of her female co-workers comes and sits by me. This girl is a bit older, but is still very attractive and also very drunk. This girl is all over me. I maintain the position I’m sitting in on the couch, never lean in or touch the girl, but don’t stop the girl from touching me. I am polite to her, but still a bit flirtatious, all while maintaining plausible deniability- she’s the one who came and sat next to me. I do this all without ever turning to see how my girlfriend is reacting. But I can see out of my peripheral vision that she is watching us. I use this to my advantage. Once again, I never change my body language, never lean into this girl or touch her. But I allow her drunk flirtations to spill onto me.
When she gets up, I don’t turn to my girlfriend. Instead, I sit there, in the same position I’ve been in all night, with just a look of amused mastery on my face. My girlfriends slides over to me and asks what I want to do. While looking at everything in the room besides her, I say in an uninterested, monotone voice “Your night, your friends, up to you.” She says she wants to go home and have sex. Something she has never said before.
We go home and it is on. We have more sex in the next 24 hours than we’d had in the last 3 weeks. I couldn’t fall asleep that night because she wouldn't stop kissing me and touching me. The next day is basically the naked fuckfest that I’ve been waiting for.
The lessons learned: It’s all in the covert message you send. It’s the fear of loss that you subtly instill in her. If I would have sat her down and openly talked about how much I was frustrated with the lack of affection and sex in our relationship, things wouldn’t have improved. If anything, they would have worsened. Women do not react to such overt messaging.
Secondly, if I would have made it obviously clear that I was going no contact with her, it would not have worked either. I would have looked like a whiny pouty child. Instead, by subtly distancing myself from her, I let her own fears control her, instead of me trying to force them upon her.
And lastly, the plausible deniability/amused mastery of having another girl flirt with you cannot be underestimated. If I would have went up to another girl and flirted with her in attempts to make my girl jealous, it wouldn’t have had the same effect. But since she came up to me, and I neither encouraged it nor stopped it, it elicited the right amount of emotions/fear of loss in my girl that it put the onus on to do something about it.
I know this wasn’t Nuclear Dread Game that gets thrown around a lot, in fact, some of you might say this isn’t dread game at all. But I think you don’t always have to go nuclear to elicit your desired response. Sometimes it is subtle tweaks here and there that make the difference. In my mind, I basically redistributed my attention and focus from her to other projects and other people. The emotions that she felt (fear of loss) elicited a reaction in her that caused her to increase her attention/affection towards me to ensure she didn't experience that loss.
psugrad98 10y ago
I did this in my 14 year marriage. Unknowingly.
My wife's best friend is an attractive woman who was over at my house. We share a lot of interests so we were chatting up stuff, and then I showed her this head ticlker thing. You put it on someones head and it really is a pleasant tickling sensation.
Since then my wife has been more more sexually aggressive than she has in a long time. It really refreshed things.
OKJaded 10y ago
I think it was an excellent example. It hits on some key points. Outcome independence. Abundance. By continuing to sit and maintain a relaxed frame you created a bidding war.
You were preselected by your girlfriend. This caused her coworker to seek validation from you. Girlfriend sees the coworker showing interest in you. This causes the girlfriend to reassess your value because you are being pursued by her coworker. GF sees you as higher value and is more attracted to you.
Its an awesome positive feedback loop.
ISODAK 10y ago
Makes you wonder if aware women ever flirt with female friends' boyfriends just as a gift to him ("here, have some sex from your girlfriend tonight, courtesy of me")...
More likely hypergamy though.
Indianbro 10y ago
Dread game only works if you're in a dull relationship.
OKJaded 10y ago
Based on my experience (it was always accidental) dread game always works. Even before I was in any relationships.
AEther_Flux 10y ago
I have done this before, unconsciously, with very similar result.
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[deleted] 10y ago
well done! i must say though, this sounds like a preamble to a dead bedrooms post in a few years time after the baby comes.
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KyfhoMyoba 10y ago
Anyone that says that this is not Dread Game (and brilliantly well played at that) is full of shit.
[deleted] 10y ago
How would one act if the woman in a similar scenario decided to play the "What's wrong, honey?" card and not let up until she gets the answer she has convinced herself she wants. This has been an issue, since telling her nothing is wrong makes her hamster that something is and she keeps prodding, causing me to eventually lose my cool.
DanG3 10y ago
The "Whats wrong?" card (and what comes before it) is a Shit Test for creativity and leadership. She wants to know/see what you are going to/can do to break the funk. Passing the ST requires creativity and humor.
"What's wrong?" I have things on my mind.
"Like what." I'm considering becoming a monk.
"Oh yeah?" Sex is always on my mind and I can't get enough of it. There's got to be something wrong with that. I figure I just need some personal discipline. (Silence ... ) So, it's been nice knowing you.
Her (probably laughing): Maybe you just need more sex.
subcover 10y ago
I think he said, or would say "nothing, I just have some things to work on" or some such.
But yeah I know she could press "no it's not the same, why are spending so much time apart from me?"
In that situation I guess you just stay vague and let her think you may be with other women. Women don't ask too many questions because dread gets the better of them, and they have the habit from childhood of talking posture-talk with other women, where that would let down the guard too much.
duckducklandwhale 10y ago
I havent done the losing cool thing often but Ive seen it and I guess it could work depending on the level of "lost cool" if it were not so serious and just one of those light "relationships need work" fights. Though, normally I if they are picking up on something is wrong and finally ask "What's wrong, honey?". I will maintain a false keep up of the appearances and say "nothing" while continuing to withdraw from them (affection, attentions, etc), this makes them feel (well actually I should say it makes the weaker party no matter the sex) awkward and tends to rebalances thing.
TogiBear 10y ago
Thought I'd duplicate this message in the case that someone new reads it. This is pretty much the backbone of TRP. Women do not react to your words, they react to your actions. They are much more insightful than men in general.
People always say the best relationships require a lot of communication, and they're right - just not the kind of communication you're used to.
If you need to ask your GF for sex, you've already failed. You need to show her that she wants to fuck you. It doesn't matter if you pick her up and force her to take your cock (some cry rape but women secretly love this shit, fuck what feminists think about it), or intentionally insert dread game so she feels the need to compete with other women for your attention; but never, under any circumstances ask her.
You don't need her permission; implying that you do makes you weak and unattractive.
KyfhoMyoba 10y ago
Yeah, baby! Women talk, men do. Demonstrate, don't explicate.
RedPillDad 10y ago
Actually, women are VERY responsive to words. You can use words to tease, flirt, intoxicate, confuse. Most guys are straight-talkers, and that's lame-ass to a girl looking for fun.
Verbal Game is different from Physical Game. What's effective (and fun) is making the two conflict. The juxtaposition excites her, versus trying to be completely congruent with some boring "I love you sweetie-pie" vibe.
GraphicSeniorNudity 10y ago
What makes me laugh about the people who criticize this place is that this kind of behavior is inevitable regardless of your redpill knowledge.
Sooner or later the relationship would become strained, distance would emerge, and the person who cares more would cave to the pressure in one form or another. But recognize this behavior, write it down and share it with the world, and you're literally the worst kind of person.
You see this story in every advice column out there. "He/she's become distant, what do I do?" And you either get: "amp up the affection, try spending some time apart, or talk it out." But be aware of what works beforehand and suddenly it's emotional manipulation.
subcover 10y ago
RP advises that "talking it out" is probably useless and quite possibly damaging.
GraphicSeniorNudity 10y ago
yeah I guess I worded that poorly, but I intentionally included the terrible "talk about it" advice you so often hear.
soskk 10y ago
"There was no way that this kind of precedent was going to be set."
You're 4 months into a LTR. The precedent was set ages ago. Not sure when you "swallowed the pill" so to speak but your apparent willingness to just "deal" with the situation as is seems to contradict your proclamation of sexual standards and physical expectations that you're used to with past girlfriends. I myself would have nexted someone that wasn't as sexually engaged in a relationship as myself.
With that being said, good job. A permanent revision in your approach might be something to think about. 4 months of less than desirable behavior breeds qualities she may revert back to in time. Push and pull, act aloof, be stoic, and always reward positive behavior.
Edit: grammar
bleh321 10y ago
Very much agree to this.
If you want to shape the relationship x months in, it will take a lot more work than doing so pre-relationship.
Setting the precedence is extremely important to her expectations of your behaviour. This why you should always err on the side of asshole at the beginning (gives you more room to move) and then slowly introduce some beta for the continuity of the relationship.
My relationship has gone on for over 1 year and sex has occurred 99% of the time we have met up. Personally I believe the best relationships start from lust aka sex aka I only want to see you for sex
TAOofSTEVE 10y ago
I completely agree on the precedent being set earlier in the relationship, but it hasn't been through a lack of effort or tactics on my part. Early in the relationship, when I received little to no physical affection when we were together or out with friends, I employed my version of agree & amplify. Being that, if she wasn’t going to show me affection (hand holding, touching, etc), then I wouldn’t show her any. But amplifying it to the point of, I’ll completely ignore her and befriend her friends so much that they adore and worship me. And that worked with varying degrees of success.
When I tired of that strategy, I went with the mindset of- I’m completely confident and comfortable with who I am and I don’t need validation or reciprocation from her. If I feel like touching or kissing her or showing affection, I’ll do it, because I know what I want and I’m not afraid to go after it. Once again, that was successful to a certain extent.
But you can go so far with being the one that is initiating all of the affection and sex before you reach your saturation point. We’d had a decent amount of sex up to that point, but it was always me leading. It was always me initiating the touching and affection too. Yes, I know we are men and should be leading, but it also feels good to have the passion you put out mirrored by your significant other. And that was the point that I made it to last week before I went full-on Dread Game.
Could I have nexted- yes. Have I done it in the past in those situations- yes. But I’ve made it to a point in my life where I don’t blame the girl for her lack of passion. I blame myself for not bringing it out in her. All girls have that animal passion inside them. I was just not eliciting it from this girl the way I wanted it. So after trying different levels of push/pull, attention, building rapport/ breaking rapport etc, (sadly) Dread Game gave me what I wanted.
DanG3 10y ago
See my post above. I'll add that (it seems) some women NEED Dread Game to snap their bean. My wife can go along for periods of time and be very platonic, but if she catches some other woman looking at me or if a woman says something complimentary about me while we are in public, she'll be DTF on the spot!
manwhy 10y ago
When was this? How long did that one injection of Coworker Dread™ last?
Doomsday_ 10y ago
You're calling this an LTR? I don't see why you'd become exclusive with a girl so early on, especially when you haven't been having crazy quantities of sex.
IMO, date for at least 6 months before becoming exclusive. Make the girl work to chase you and lock you down, and she will gain a greater appreciation of your value, making her much more loyal and committed when you do become exclusive.
It's also important that you take a good deal of time to screen her to see if she's actually suitable for an LTR. A short screening period shows that you have low standards and/or few options.
That's because the more you pressure a woman to have sex with you, the less she will actually want to have sex with you. If you pressure her, it makes you seem needy and desperate. Desire cannot be negotiated. If you instead send the message with your actions that you can easily get your sex elsewhere, her attraction for you actually increases due to preselection.
[deleted] 10y ago
Flawless execution of stoicism and outcome independence.
I would call that "pre-dread"
BluepillProfessor 10y ago
Whenever another man finds the DREAD a bell rings in Heaven and an Angel gets his wings. I suspect God is on the side of who that helps unravel this matriarchal tyranny and nightmare we have created.
I have asked this before and still don't have an answer: I know it works, but why does the fact that Dread works piss me off so much? Because I have to convince my SO that other women want to fuck me before she will fuck me or because I was such a fucking bluepill idiot for so long and didn't know that. Still not sure the answer.
Anyway, yah, great example of Dread games. and the question you need to ask is whether this is tolerable in a 4-month relationship. It will only get worse. Much, much, much worse.
Unless....someone like you care a whole awful lot its not going to get better its not.... Wait wrong book.
So the only possible LTR continuation of this that I see is to go from covert to overt. You can only continue playing Dread games if that is who you really are which almost all of us are not. You know, the guy who gets hit on by girls all the time. So because this is so early in the relationship, I would tell her what your requirements are- and demanding she initiate sex is too much to ask, sorry. Men initiate. Women respond. However, if she is willing to respond enthusiastically then (and only then) can you keep her. Rollo and most Red Pillers say keep it in the language of women- covert- but believe me, sex frequency eventually must be negotiated if you have a high drive and low drive partner together. Most Red Pillers will tell you NEXT... In that situation anyway. I say "NEXT" also UNLES...SHE is willing to give in' and she give you her power of denial. I call it giving you the launch codes to the nuclear sexual denial weapon. Christians call it submission. You in turn commit to using that power to her maximum benefit, unselfishly and lovingly. Otherwise, I am in the Run Forest run category.
[deleted] 10y ago
it pisses me off too. my explanation is that i grew up looking at women as symmetric equals, expecting some sort of kinship where in reality there is none. sort of like a broluv sort of thing - expecting the same loyalty from women that we do from our male best friends for example.
it does injustice to both sides. on the one hand, it sent us on a goose chase, making us shitty boyfriends and future divorcees. on the other hand, by being clingy we would rob a woman's nature that sends her seeking the best genes/partner she can get.
misconceptions and having high expectations which you find out need lowering causes adverse emotional responses, in our case, anger.
i still think it's unfortunate - but only so because we were raised to expect something that we shouldn't expect. our emotional reactions would be different if we were told the truth.
i currently am seeing 2 women, both know i'm sleeping with other women, and both find comfort in it. they protest now and then that i'm an asshole/player, tell me it's a turn off, etc. but they keep coming to me - one of them is an ex as well which told me she despised me when i was being oogly eyes and lovey.
the more you fucking learn eh? at least we're not 70 laying on our deathbed wondering where it all went wrong. have some comfort in that.
[deleted] 10y ago
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[deleted] 10y ago
Oh they want as much sex, but only with the top tier men.
Men want sex like we want food. If we are starving, anything at all starts to look delicious.
nofaprecommender 10y ago
Refreshing to see a successful RP post that doesn't talk about how stupid/immoral the female is. Good work getting what you wanted.
DanG3 10y ago
That is a QUINTESSENTIAL example powerful Dread Game in a LTR. Yes, key in it was that you did NOT initiate flirting with the other woman and, better, you did not reciprocate flirting. The latter was the coup de grâce because it demonstrated loyalty. It's important that a Man optimize opportunities to show his woman that he is desired by other women. That's pretty standard fair in a non-LTR. But in an LTR a woman will also test for loyalty. In fact, I'll say that your woman has been loyalty testing you for some time. Congratulations on the "Pass." (As my wife of 21 years said after our first sex marathon, "Now what?")
analcavitysearcher 10y ago
Can you expand more on testing for loyalty?
DanG3 10y ago
In short: "Shit Tests / Fitness Tests," as usually defined, test to see if the Man will maintain - "hold frame" - for all the characteristics of Alpha that are (initially) attractive to single (or "Alpha-interested") females. (See male protagonists in most Romance Novels or ... "Captain Jack Sparrow.") Alpha appeals to the female instinct because Alpha means good genes, strength, resourcefulness, etc.
BUT, Alphas also tend to have ADD when other females are available or MAKE themselves available (flirt). The female Primal Brain wants to know/test if the guy is in a relationship with her/has kids with her/ is easily distracted (ADD) or is he likely to remain loyal. The Loyalty Test tests for this.
In a Dread situation with an interloping female and non-flirting male the male will can reap double bonus attraction value points. The interloping female is demonstrating that the male is desirable to other females
Moneyley 10y ago
OP didnt attempt to flirt with other women first, she came to him. Had he attempted to flirt first, his ltr would perceive it as some sort of mind game or could be turned off by his arrogance. Instead, he simply didnt reject her and held a fun converastion with her. By doing so it conveys to his ltr that if she dont up her game then other women will. She upped her game. Brilliant OP!
the_number_2 10y ago
I got a mild taste of this recently. I have been chatting with a girl I met at a party. She's kind of a side-burner project: someone I would like a relationship with, but is set aside enough to not develop oneitis.
Anyway, though we had been talking a lot recently, I got the feeling like I was initiating most of it, which turned out to be true. I had made a habit of sending her a good night text most nights at the end of the conversation. I decided to cut contact and see what happened.
Well, the very next day, after not hearing from me all day, she text and asked about my day. I gave her short answers but didn't completely disregard. Then I went to bed without sending her "good night". I woke up the next morning to, "I never got my good night..."
I couldn't believe how well a little distance worked, especially when it was routine-breaking. She had become accustomed to talking to me every night, and when she got uncomfortable without it. she made the effort to get it back.
Moneyley 10y ago
Love the dread game posts. Dread game works, its almost crazy to think "damn I have this hot girl with me and I'ma go ahead and flirt with other women infront of her" but if they start hamstering over bullshit to get your attention and you fall for it, you're done. In my early beta days women would throw fits as we were out barhopping and there I was trying to figure out what was wrong. I love me some dread game
wisdom_is 10y ago
The question is: How long will you have to keep this up? To me it seems a shitload of work to constantly have to utilize these tactics. Sooner or later she will catch on and just not respond favorable. Then its game over. Imo a relationship where you have to manager her attraction all the time is not a woman I'd like to be in a relationship with. Too much of a hassle.
DanG3 10y ago
I had a great uncle who, among other things, was a rum runner to speak-easies during the 20's depression. (He would meet boats off-shore at night and transport booze back to shore.) He was always the hit of any party he attended - with both the women and men. He could tell jokes, drink with the best, play cards, and dance with class. He was union tradesmen by profession, President of his union, and both a ladies man AND Mans man. As a child, I remember he and his wife BOTH had great times together and also what "seemed like" serious arguments - fights - but all who witnessed them (including his wife) ultimately could not contain their laughter because (what I have since learned through TRP) he was a MASTER of passing shit tests mainly using Agree and Amplify (or other). The guy was a natural Alpha. I recently learned that he wrote a short love note to his wife every day he was alive.
CallMeMrBadGuy 10y ago
Honestly I think you got conveniently lucky with the added jealousy factor from the drunk girl. That certainly pushes one over the edge when another female is competing for attention from an attractive male. Well played. Though I dont know if this is LTR material. Id be more concerned with the future if this is it now
[deleted] 10y ago
Luck is when opportunity meets preparation.
domfemme 10y ago
sounds like you are both clingy and desperate with poor communication. you deserve her champ
gt35r 10y ago
So I enjoyed reading this a lot, and I think I've done this accidentally before a few times which makes sense. But here's my question. What if she started pulling the "why are you not talking to me or acting like this?" Or if you went home and she started pulling that bullshit, what do you do then? I guess what I'm saying is what if she doesn't respond to your dread and try to fight about it instead, I feel like I can see that happening in certain situations.
TAOofSTEVE 10y ago
Well, obivously you can't overtly tell her "I'm ignoring you on purpose because I'm trying to get my way." That will only make you look childish and she will lose attraction to you.
Conversely, you can't say you aren't ignoring her and start giving her attention again; then you don't achieve the actual intent of your goal, which is eliciting a specific behavior from her.
So I think the only option is to say "I'm not acting any different. I have no idea what you are talking about baby." Then double down on the activities that you do without her. Leave early for a morning run, stay late at the office, or double up on your hobbies that don't involve her.
Basically, say one thing and do another. It is kind of a push/pull thing. Pull her with your words but push her with your actions. Her hamster will start spinning wondering what is going on. Even though your words are comforting, your actions will elicit the fear of loss, which is the ultimate goal of dread game.
marlybarrow 10y ago
Describe this expression for me please.
DanG3 10y ago
It looks like this ... http://www.aveleyman.com/ActorCredit.aspx?ActorID=15023
and ... the movie "Nine 1/2 Weeks" http://www.aveleyman.com/FilmCredit.aspx?FilmID=94 should be required viewing for any Man studying Game.
[deleted] 10y ago
My plates roommate had a party yesterday and had a bunch of attractive girls over. I was talking to them and making everyone laugh and wasn't paying much attention to my plate. 3 guys like 50 girls basically.
After a while, my plate comes to me and says "you should come to my room." Fucked like animals right then and there in the middle of the party. Talk about marking your territory/dread.
mexicaaaan 10y ago
Dread game isn't TRP, it's straight up beta shit that you use to keep a low-value women down. get the fuck out of here with this nonsense