Summary: There is not a lot of advice out there if you get a stranger pregnant other than, "Get ready to get fucked for 18 years with child support." I slipped up once and had sex with a girl I had met one time previous. 13 days later she called me and told me she was pregnant. This is a simple story of what I did next. What's the next best thing you can do? (Italics are chapters from 48 Laws of Power). The laws in your state vary; so what happens in Indiana may not work in your state.
The First Conversation My daughter's mom called me early in the morning to tell me she was pregnant. She asked me what she should do. This question is testing you in a lot of different ways. Are you going to freak out? Are you going to try to convince her to get an abortion? The correct answer is to say, in a calm and confident manner, for her to start taking prenatal vitamins. If you want an abortion you have weeks to talk about it. This is an easy question to knock out of the park. If she decides to have a child she can NEVER use against you that you wanted an abortion. When shit goes downhill she will throw you under the bus to everyone she knows. Give her as little ammunition as possible. Reason: You will need to maintain frame in a way that you've never had to for a length of time that seems impossible. When you know what she's saying is not true it makes it easier to suffer the slings and arrows. In my case I could tell immediately that abortion was not a live option and that I would be left in the dark for the next 9 months if I brought it up. But I should add that I would never abort a child as a form of birth control
Week 1 - Start saving 20% of your income for a safe new car. Well, that's what I told by daughter's mom. I told everyone that actually. It would have been great, but I knew then that it was unlikely. Really what I was doing is saving 20% of my income to see what child support was going to be like AND for attorney fee's. I spent every dime so far. Start saving immediately. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
On Child Support - That money is simply no longer yours. Do not argue about it or whine or try to get out of it. She might even tell you she doesn't want it. Do not take the bait. Force her hand. Require her to take the money. There are other methods to avoid paying your full legal obligation. But you MUST play the perfect courtier from the very beginning. Your end goal is to have a congruent story. If you want to argue philosophically about how it's immoral or whatever post on this site. In America It's like arguing with gravity. It makes you look like a fucking moron. My strategy was to just immediately give her the ground. No need for her to fight it. Why? Assume Formlessness. In the future she will try to hurt you. She will have learned a lot about what hurts you. You will never be hurt the way a pregnant woman can hurt you. She has so much power over you (due to the laws in this country) that you will break. A year later she is still using what she knows hurts me to try to hurt me now. Fortunately I Controlled the Options.
Week 2 Tell her that you're getting a paternity test through the courts. Not a walgreen's kit. She will understandably be outraged at the implication. Tell her early before you guys get to know each other and just say casually that you two are strangers. Ask her if she trust you 100% already. Tell her it's a legal requirement for setting up child support (half true). When I did this, it really wasn't that big of a deal.
Week 3-5ish Plan all the way to the end and Know who you are dealing with Pregnancy amplifies whatever is wrong with a girl. Obviously she is not a princess if she hooked up with a stranger. It should put a huge spotlights on her specific brand of crazy. Between September and October I knew her fairly well. I knew she wanted to be a "heroic single mom." I knew she had an avoidant attachment style. She was an insane control freak. She gave me faux options to manipulate me into thinking I had a choice in the matter. She told me before we knew the gender that my child would not have my last name and that there was nothing I could do about it. The anguish and pain that caused me could not be hidden. I told her that we were not in agreement on this issue but she told me that I would have to deal with it and tough shit. My brain said she was right, there was nothing I could do because I was powerless. Use the Surrender Tactic: Transform Weakness into Power and than later Play a Sucker to Catch a Sucker – Seem Dumber than your Mark In any dispute where you have no power you shouldn't argue with her, just state that you are not in agreement on this issue and drop it. You will pay an attorney to argue with her in the future.
6 months of hell I went to every doctor's appointment she invited me to. I did everything she wanted including signing a lease with her. It was her idea, but I saw how I could use it to my advantage. I think at this point she was trying to get me to say no to something so she could go tell everyone want a terrible dude I was. But my rationale was this: Best case scenario when she moves out after a year I could argue that child lives at that house and is off breast milk, emergency placement prior to court is usually the residence that the child knows best. Worst case scenario - I had signed a lease with a girl I wasn't even dating, that's how invested in my child's life I was. Make sure you can afford to pay for the entire rent yourself before signing the lease. MAKE SURE SHE SIGNS THE LEASE. My daughter's mom tried to get out of signing it. Nope, her name is on that shit. Which will prevent her from claiming you raped her.... but who would do that.
Last three months- Mom moved out due to me being a manipulative, uncaring, slob (her words). We had one fight while living together and nothing she said was true. She was just looking for a reason to move out. She refused to talk to me for the last three months of the pregnancy. I really think her issue is that she knew she wasn't controlling me. We didn't talk for three months.
In those three months I focused on Concentrating my Forces. I had told my daughter's mom that my parents were moving here to help us out. This has helped me so much in my fight to get visitation so far. My sister lives in town, my brother lives in town, and now both my parents were available at all times to baby sit. I also went lawyer shopping over the three month period. www.avvo.com I talked to five different lawyers.
I make this sound easy: I haven't mentioned about how my health declined due to stress. It was the worst when I signed the lease with her. Huge gamble unknown whether it was foolish or if it would pay off. My vision started changing every single day (Eye doctor tried saying I had type II diabetes), Bald spots appeared in my beard, blood pressure went into type II hypertension. I spent more on doctor bills in six months than my entire adult life. Hang in there man. Find a support group, coworkers, family members. Lean on people but remember that they want to see a success story. Females at work always love to hear about a father fighting to stay in their childrens' lives.
You have no rights Before the paternity test you have no rights. Zero. You must continue to use the surrender tactic. You are literally a random stranger to that kid. Do not sign a voluntary acknowledgment of paternity. If you have a good lawyer he delivered the court order BEFORE your child was born to do a paternity test. I was the father by the way.
Mom Fights Back Oh man she will fight as if her life depends on it. Her maternal instinct to protect that child from people she doesn't trust/like is going to make her behave like a crazy person. She tried to fight the paternity test. She didn't let me see my daughter for three weeks over father's day and then acted like it was my own fault. Bite your tounge. You still have a ways to go. Do NOT fight with the mom. Ever. You arguing with Mom is a waste of breath. You pay an attorney to fight her. Win through your Actions, Never through Argument No matter what she did to me I didn't let it phase me. I made sure the courts knew what she did so that we could have a congruent case of her denying me visitations. The day I was declared the father through the paternity test Mom filed serious endangerment charges against me. At first she was alleging that I raped her. But that lease she signed with me destroyed that option. My attorney BCCed me on emails so I basically read his response as, "are you joking? This is a joke. She signed a lease with him." So she went with a whole shit ton of mud instead. None of it true. The courts MUST investigate so don't take it personally ($$$ $$ because of the Children $$$$). Play the perfect courtier. Remember you don't care about money, only about bonding with your child. My Attorney was 1500, the supervised visits cost me 1200$, the guardiam ad litem cost me 1400$. I never brought up that she filed this, never yelled at her for it. Just imagine you're playing chess. She made a move, it's your job to anticipate it and counter it. It's easy to counter.
Guardiam Ad Litem She is the only person you care to win over. Play the perfect courtier. Play the perfect courtier. Play the perfect courtier. The GAL relies on the supervisor that is watching you with your daughter. Treat the supervisor like an old friend. Listen to their stories of other "crazy" parents. Mom won't like the supervisor because she's not in control, someone else is in control. To the GAL, compliment Mom on her mothering abilities. Never trash talk her, don't ever say anything emotionally charged about her. Say you're only complaint is that she won't let you or your family see your daughter. Say you just want to be equals as parents. I remember distinctly saying, "four hours a week is just not enough, it's just not enough" to which she echo'd me. Mine had a questionnaire for me to fill out and I spent 8 hours writing and rewriting it until it was the perfect. I had painted a picture, that was true, whereby Mom has mud on her by the end and yet you never saw me throw anything and my hands remained clean.
By the next court date I had the Guadian Ad Litem telling me she was going to try to get me 50/50 joint custody. It helped me out a lot that I actually liked both the supervisor handling my case and the GAL. I knew immediately they would be able to see through Mom's ridiculous behavior if I just continued to maintain frame and play the perfect courtier. I could tell they were both good people. Your mileage may vary and you will get GAL who are in it for the money. My attorney went out of his way to get this GAL. I didn't do this at the time but absolutely research reviews online for the GAL. The GAL is actually more important than the attorney you get. Tell your attorney that you want a GAL who has a reputation for acting in the child's best interest. The supervisor handling my case also if you talk to her will gossip about the reputations of all the attorneys involved in your case.
False Allegations First the serious endangerment charges, next Mom will record every way that you're not doing a good job as a parent (in her mind). Yes it annoys you to have to answer to everything you do with your time but it's annoying the Guardian ad litem too. My favorite thing to say to the GAL is this, "She has never brought it up to me, if I'm doing something wrong I want to know. Why wouldn't she tell me?" Play the perfect courtier. When I won my first major battle I got the best false allegation of the year. Mom came over and tried to start a fight with me. She had nothing to go on and I have now never argued with her for 15 months. Why would I start now? Long story short she went postal while I remained calm. She started hitting my door, etc. She left and called the police. Police showed up to ask me some questions. The moment you prepare for finally happens (you are prepared for the police getting called on you when you start winning in court right?). I simply tell him I don't answer questions without an attorney. Bye bye sir. That was now 7 days ago and I've heard nothing from the police. This is where maintaining frame comes into play. It's so important, remember you're doing it for your child.
Assume Formlessness/Control the Options Mom wants to hurt me. But she never correctly figured out how. She thought the only option for hurting me was to deny me visitations but that's because I controlled her options. I put her in a position where her choices were to not attack me and let me visit my daughter and thus I win, or to attack me and (when I'm exonerated) it makes her look bad and thus I win. She had a lot of options to waste my money and give me tons of time with my daughter (when I was paying someone to supervise me). This would have made her look good and done a great deal of damage to me. She never did it because she didn't realize it would hurt me. From the beginning I acted like money was not a big deal and would constantly just spend it in front of her like I had an endless supply of it. I would tell stories that carried the message that IDGAF about money.
Present day By this point no one in court believes her anymore. I went into court thinking that she was going to get to file an order of protection but I think that even her own attorney must have advised against it. I had my first overnight with my daughter. This week. I'm confident that she tarnished her reputation and they see that she's just hyper controlling and will fabricate things about me to maintain that control. She doesn't know how to hurt me or control me (well controlling me would be easy, she just could try being nice to me). The best part is that soon I will have 50/50 custody which reduces my child support obligation (that thing I supposedly don't care about). My attorney says that he has gotten surname changed and that there is a good likelihood (depending on the judge) that this also will come about.
Guys you can win in court. It's hard and unfair and we're not used to being discriminated against so obnoxiously. We're not used to being guilty until proven innocent. I constantly let Mom think she's smarter than me. I play dumb constantly with her. I never engage her. I pretend like I don't know what's going on and that my attorney doesn't communicate with me very well. I pretend like it's no big deal that she says crazy stuff about me. I never ever ever ever gloat or rub it in or try to hurt her back. She's a child, you're an adult. If she knows what's going on in your brain the fight will never end. Moves and countermoves guys. It can be done. It will affect your health. I jumped out of an airplane and was so depressed I felt absolutely nothing. There were days I woke up where I did not think I could do it; I didn't think I had the stamina for this type of warfare. The toxicity from Mom was that intense. The odds seemed to be stacked against me to too great of a degree. You can do it if you must.
Edit: By the way, I forgot to mention this in the beginning but I really always "hoped for the best, plan for the worst" That was my strategy. If you read through all of this you'll really see that it's obvious. I genuinely hoped that Mom would figure out that I have my family in my best interest and that she could trust me. Every step of the way I gave her the option of doing the right thing with no repercussion. She just never took that option; I don't harp on it as it's probably never going to be relevant. But as you try to win the hearts and minds of others make sure that you emphasize how you hope for the best and what you're doing (saving for a safe car, signing a lease with a stranger to raise your child together, going to all doctors appointments, etc.)
2nd Edit: I should also mention this guide pertains to a non-substance abusing mother. This is about getting your rights from a mom with no real issues. I am so fortunate and happy that I don't have to worry about any actual harm going to my daughter. Like if you remind yourself how much worse things could be, it makes it easier to remain stoic in the face of America's court system.
3rd Edit: Some typos's etc. I have a paternity test guys. It's in the story. Yes, I'm intelligent. I am the type of guy that would never make a mistake. I was drunk and I honestly just fucked up. If it happened to me, it'll probably happen to other guys out there so I wrote this guide. If you don't want to be a part of your child's life than you don't really need a guide. Personally I couldn't leave my daughter to be raised without a father knowing everything I know about TRP.
No. Thank You TRP A lot of you guys are thanking me for writing this. I'd like to say instead thanks to all of you. The only, ONLY, reason I was prepared for all the false allegations, the toxicity, the back stabbery, the nonsense, the insanity, and the court system was you all and this community. Very few guys naturally would ever think the way I was forced to think. I was never flatfooted on ANYTHING she did because I was able to anticipate it months in advance (false rape allegations, domestic disputes with the police, etc) and thanks to you guys I knew how important maintaining frame was throughout all of this. So while many of you don't agree with everything I did or get focused on the one time in my life I had unprotected sex (with a stranger), I don't mind the criticism because I never said that this guide was the ONE way to do it. There is probably a better strategy. I did waste a lot of energy on things that were absolute wastes of time. I'll try to write updates in the future to talk about what happens with Mom through the years.
LD1996 7y ago
Wow, guess that's what happens when you sleep with strangers and are too stupid to use proper protection.
ScoundrelHero 7y ago
No. This is not usually what happens when someone sleeps with someone without protection.
I think usually nothing happens because the rate of fertilization is low. But in my one specific lapse of judgment (or as you would say, being too stupid) fertilization did occur.
Then usually what happens is that the guy gets blindsided in court because he's not at all prepared for any of this. Then he blames the court system for not being in his child's life.
Eventually he becomes that "every other weekend" father. You know, the Dad who buys their children's love because he's not in their life enough? That's what usually happens to us idiot males who fail to use proper protection.
[deleted] 7y ago
Oldie but goody. Wish I had read this before my incident.
Fortunately child custody laws and support do not affect me. I still take care of my so. Though, I just don't get raped by mommy since paying is optional for me.
alienated1310 7y ago
Save 20 percent of your income haha.
kinginyeller 8y ago
Man i wish i had seen something like this 2.5 years ago. And boy did i search. But that was before i found reddit, and eventually trp. Because, of course, every guide on the internet is about what to do as an expecting mother. Luckily i can still use some of the advice from this, despite my boy now being 18 months old and having recently secured full physical and legal custody. Man i hope your situation has improved like mine has!
Dont_Mind_Me2 8y ago
cannot thank you enough for this. I'm in a similar situation, however the mother of the unborn child is choosing to try a relationship with an ex girlfriend of hers. This post gives me hope that it wont be a life ender... thank you.
neonparadise 8y ago
Thank goodness for fathers like you. I'm glad you take responsibility for your actions, and for your child, and as such, you have likely saved another child from a broken single mother home.
ScoundrelHero 8y ago
It's still brutal when looking back. But the turning point for my stress level was when she called the police and everyone just ignored her. The best was that my daughter's attorney complimented me on not talking to the police. The last three months have been great honestly.
MachineFknHead 8y ago
Here's a guide - don't give out your real name to one night stands, and stop giving strangers your main phone number like a tool. Get a burner phone - learned this early in the drug game. Everyone should have a second phone that isn't tied to their name. Cell phones are too tied to your identity these days. Fake name, prepaid cell phone, good to go.
The_RedWolf 8y ago
This is an amazing account, thank you.
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Dr_HoaxArthurWilmoth 8y ago
This is an ad for a vasectomy.
Too bad your ex didn't have a son, doesn't seem worth the trouble otherwise.
beginner_ 8y ago
Congrats for handling it in this way and surviving it. I would say that's a huge feat and I'm very doubtful I could have held frame all this time. But it is also a HUGE warning. Don't ever do it without a condom. period. Even if you are already naked in her bed. Get up and leave.
bm2l 8y ago
This is why you give a fake name and a burner phone my man
vicious_armbar 8y ago
I've been though a similar situation. From the sound of the post op thinks that this will be over once a parenting agreement is issued. Don't bet on it. It's been 5 years since the woman I knocked up and I split. In that time she's sued me 3 times trying to change the parenting agreement. Every time there have been outrageous lies and false allegations. She'll lie and slander me to anyone who will listen: my child's doctor, therapist, teacher, the cops when she calls them to try and harass me, whoever.
Op fucked up when he first found about the pregnancy by saying: "start taking prenatal vitamins". That implies that he wants to be a father. I made a similar mistake by not pushing for an abortion hard enough. The correct answer is: "Don't worry I'll pay for the abortion". If she gives you push back make it clear that she will get as little financial help from you as legally possible, and her as well as her child will never see you again. If you knock someone up you want her to think you're an asshole and that you'll be a bad father; so she'll be more likely to get an abortion.
Who cares?! Even if you don't push for an abortion she can just make shit up, and tell everyone that you did. As op found out. So now instead of telling everyone that op wanted her to have an abortion; she's lying and telling everyone he's a rapist. Is that supposed to be any better?
It's good that op started saving for attorneys fees. But again telling him that he wants to save up for a "safe new car" makes you sound like a responsible father. That's the opposite of what you want this woman to think if you're trying to get her to have an abortion. If you have any sense after reading this story that's the angle you should be playing.
Honestly I love my son, he loves me, and now that I'm in this position I would never screw him up by not being part of his life and raising him. But if I ever knock up another chick I'm pushing hard for abortion. If she won't get one then I'll cut off all contact, minimize my expenses, and pay whatever I'm legally required to pay. The reason why we have so many fatherless children is because our family law system openly caters to mothers at the expense of fathers. Especially unmarried fathers.
[deleted] 8y ago
you should post this as well.
Theres very little of this on TRP yet
ScoundrelHero 8y ago
I would love to go back through and try out different strategies. I only had one shot through this, and there is almost no help out there for me to read (which is why I wrote this guide).
My gut instinct was that she was not going to get an abortion no matter what I said. You are right in that she eventually made up shit to talk about me to everyone else. But when you are trying to maintain frame against this toxicity it helps when you know what she's saying is false.
strategos_autokrator 8y ago
I don't know all the details, just what you shared. But it sounds like you own all your choices, including the bad ones, and stayed strong, handled the consequences, planned like a leader, didn't whine like a victim.
You handled it like a champ.
vicious_armbar 8y ago
Yeah I feel you man. I'm in the same boat.
lolexbolex 8y ago
Same with my ex-GF. We had the talk about the scenario where she might get pregnant (just curious, did not have any plans) and she said she would never ever get an abortion. But idiot me and it happened.
So she got pregnant. I told her from the start I will pay for the abortion or she will raise the child by herself and no real man would look at her as no real man wants to raise someone else's child.
She understood very clearly that I'm not going to raise the child with her and I pushed for the abortion ASAP so that she won't change her mind. Did it the next day we found out and now I'm chilling with no fucking child to bug me.
She is my EX because she was a shit person in general, I was planning to break up before the happening, but man, with a complete stranger, I would have just hang up the phone and change my number.
powder1 8y ago
When i got crazy pregnant and pushed for abortMISSion, she responded back to me, "God gave me this child and I will not let anyone take it away from me!!" Right then and there I knew I was in for it. Chin up.
RedBigMan 8y ago
I think in your situation your strategy worked perfectly.
The poster above you in this thread if you had followed his path instead of getting 50/50 custody or manage to be the custodial parent you would be losing a lot more in child support. When you are a non-custodial parent and aren't in the child's life as anything more than an ATM then the courts charge you more for not being around. Like instead of what 20% you'd be paying closer to 50% of what you earn possibly.
I have to say I am disappointed that equality doesn't exist and that this 'deadbeat mom' wasn't put into a jail cell like all those fathers tend to when they fall into arrears on their child support.
GuitarHero07 8y ago
One Machiavellian approach is to pretend like you are happy. Pretend that you want to be her BB. Paint vivid images of a life of luxury out in the suburbs. Even start giving her a taste of the good life she could enjoy with you. Then, tell her that some financial problems have arisen and you simply cannot afford the kid right now. But tell her you want kids with her some day. Pay for the abortion. After it's a done deal, stick with her for a little while longer and then create a pretext to dump her.
KeithStone30rack 8y ago
Don't forget to take her out for an Egg McMuffin after it's over!
vicious_armbar 8y ago
I agree. I tried that myself. My suggestion was for guys that already tried the 'good cop' approach, and needed a last ditch hail mary.
tallwheel 8y ago
Ah, that would be what we call the [Hail Marry] (http://www.returnofkings.com/16089/how-to-convince-a-girl-to-get-an-abortion) approach.
DRMMR76 8y ago
As cold hearted as this may seem, this is TRP and we value truth. Some of us have absolutely no intention of having any children whatsoever and would not desire visitation or any other sort of interaction with either the mother or the child. As awesome as this writeup is, it seems to be written from the standpoint of wanting to gain custody, keep visitations, etc.
Would you recommend anything different if a man was operating from that standpoint of wanting none of these things and a complete lack of desire to have anything to do with the entire situation for the rest of his life?
Beyond getting a vasectomy of course, which I've already done. But some men who have no desire to have children may not have done that yet.
[deleted] 8y ago
The French Foreign Legion. Five years of service, a name change, a new identity. Beyond something drastic (And costly in its own way) like this, there's not really much else out there for men.
Honestly, the major thing that needs to change is the law regarding this. Women have a viable means of protecting themselves (The Pill, Plan B, Abortions, etc), but a man is essentially fucked.
Of course, governments want population growth so nothing will change...
[deleted] 8y ago
Its not as easy to join the foreign legion as it used to be.
I looked into it on a whim once.
Extremely bad ass organization though.
[deleted] 8y ago
It's still pretty easy. I tried to join last year. Didn't get through the front door because I was too weak to do 10 pull-ups, but another guy who joined on the same day as me was let in.
[deleted] 8y ago
Huh.
Maybe they have ramped up recruitment again on account of the whole terrorism thing.
Verlier 8y ago
If you are lucky, she wanted another guy to think it's his child and you just let it be.
Enjoyitbeforeitsover 8y ago
Hey man, can you share that vasectomy story. I'll just admit I fucking don't vibe well with hospitals or clinics. I'd be willing to do it, but I'd like to hear about how to proceed form this sub though. I heard about some gel thing, in which you can reverse or allow yourself to have sperm. I'm just curious regarding like how this affects testosterone, or anything regarding the health of your sperm once you decide to reverse the surgery, or whatever the process is called.
kryptokate 8y ago
Yes, the OP is very oriented towards being open to having the kid, and being an involved parent too.
It goes without saying that no man without a vasectomy should be having casual sex with women who aren't at least open to abortion, if the man knows they don't want a kid. And it is much safer to choose women from more educated/affluent circles who have more to lose because they will pretty much always have an abortion in this circumstance.
But still, people fuck up, and if it happens and you want an abortion, the best response is simply to be ENTIRELY emotionless. Don't give a shred of indication -- at all -- of anger, fear, pride, anticipation, excitement, apprehension, concern, or ANYTHING but total Spock type answers. Make it clear you don't want the kid but will do what is legally required. Don't ever hint, say, or act as if you will do more than the bare legal minimum, but also don't say you won't, just avoid it entirely and act as if the whole thing is something you don't care about. If she tries to shame you or make you feel like a jerk simply don't react. Once she figures out you are totally impervious to emotional manipulation she is very unlikely to want to have the kid, and even religious, conservative women often change their mind when they're in this situation.
God forbid if you KNOW you don't want the kid, do NOT use that prenatal vitamins line!! It shows concern, care, and interest in protecting the potential future child. Refer to it only as "an unfortunate mistake." Don't be an active jerk, just be cold.
As to worrying about what other's think...first of all who cares, people thinking you're a jerk isn't as bad as having a kid you don't want with a woman you don't care about. Second, in every single answer/text/response you give to her attempts to shame, build in shaming language yourself so that she can't relay what you said to others without being embarrassed and looking like a slut. Like this: "I understand your position, but I find your expectations from a man you slept with that you'd just met and didn't know at all to be entirely unreasonable. I will never think that having a child in these circumstances is a good idea." Simple, emotionless, to the point, and true. Don't be a dick, just be Spock.
If, after responding in that manner consistently for weeks, she still insists on having the kid, she either has her own resources to support her (her job or family), she's planning on hooking another guy to play daddy, or she's a full-blown religious crazy.
no_face 8y ago
Give a fake name/number to strangers in a bar.
Always carry condoms.
Do not get overly drunk/high. Its never worth the damage to your health and life.
alphbux 8y ago
Number 1: Vasectomy AND condoms.
But honestly though if my genes are going to be passed on like in OP's case, wouldn't you want to do the alpha thing and give it the best chance to go on and pass yours on?
If the child is a boy it's gonna get fucked up by BP society and a single mum. Likewise with a girl.
TRPMaidenSlayer 8y ago
I honestly don't think this would work well anymore. A halfway decent PI would find you, especially given as much surveillance and imaging and social media that's out there.
For instance, at the bar you met her, you'd have to pay 100% cash all the time, and hope they don't have cameras.
If there was ever a thread to remind guys to wrap it up, it is this one. Holy hell.
AmlanceJockey 8y ago
Paying cash is a good thing to do anyway. Why trust random waitresses with your card infomation? Ready to bounce a girl to the hotel? Throw cash down and you're out. Avoid paying a fee to spend your own money with a debit card. Avoid paying interest with a credit card.
Most places don't store video forever. Longest I have seen in a non-secure facility is two weeks. And thats considered way more than necessary. By the time she realized she was pregnant, and realized that you weren't going to amswer the voicemails she left on your burner phone, and gets a PI on the case months could have passed. And if a PI, or hell even a cop, walked into my business without a warrant asking for footage, I would tell them to fuck off.
And this doesn't have to work 100% of the time, just the one time you get a bish pregnant. So, you are right. A good investigator could find you the day after, if he got lucky. After a few weeks, that trail gets pretty cold, pretty quick.
agarmend 8y ago
Risking millions of downvotes, here's what i did. It worked like a charm. Tell her calmly: "I do not want a child. If you decide you want to have it, this is the last conversation that we are ever going to have. If a judge tells me to pay money to you or the child, I will deposit the money religiously in the account that they tell me. However, I will never, ever meet that child or see you again". She will not have that child.
[deleted] 8y ago
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agarmend 8y ago
Absolutely. She even told me that I souldn't worry because she was sterile. Turned out to be bullshit.
KeithStone30rack 8y ago
It was only a little white lie! Lol, it's crazy how we have to practically be paranoid just to protect ourselves.
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Squeezymypenisy 8y ago
You can't get out of paying child support no matter what. Just be safe like you are already doing.
Rustedluck 8y ago
Not true. I got out of paying child support. It's just rare.
Squeezymypenisy 8y ago
I believe you, but lets hear your example.
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SpeakerToRedditors 8y ago
That makes sense. no one give a fuck about me or my kids. people loose their mind if a child-bearing women doesn't want children.
tallwheel 8y ago
Vasectomy at 23? Man. I wish I had known what I wanted out of life by that age.
[deleted] 8y ago
If it's your child, your income is already committed, at law, to supporting this child.
If, after recognising that this is the case, you choose not to gain any benefit from doing so, that is your Perogative. I see OP as a 'have lemons, make lemonade' scenario.
MinisterOf 8y ago
The Earth is a big place with varying jurisdictions/laws and a wider range of options than you imagine. Even solutions as radical as completely disappearing are not off the table, nor as difficult as they seem at first. Sure, they all have downsides, much depends on your priorities. OP's first priority was participating in his child's life... but that's not necessarily for everyone.
[deleted] 8y ago
When my friends mother divorced his father, the father moved to some Asian country for this exact reason. When y friends turned 18 his dad moved to California with his new wife and kids lol.
[deleted] 8y ago
And none is saying it's for everyone, so stop arguing with ghosts
[deleted] 8y ago
Had a scare myself once and that was what was going through my head. Life would basically be over with a shift from expectations for reality being large and in a negative enough direction to warrant a drastic option. I honestly would strongly consider trying to disappear.
If she doesn't want an abortion then play the good guy role while plotting your next moves. Empty out the bank account go to another country and just start the fuck over
[deleted] 8y ago
Disappearing to other countries is a nice option to dodge this bullet.
Filipino OFWs(Oversees Workers)have been doing that for quite a while already.
FLEXONHOES 8y ago
If that's "winning" then I'll opt out of the game altogether.
You made the best of a shitty situation that will be able to help others in your shoes, thanks for sharing.
174pounder 8y ago
Damn. How do you not just lose your cellphone at a mcdonalds, drive this bitch out to the desert and bury her?
poopie420 8y ago
Good luck with your daughter, broseph.
It's tough as shit being a single dad, but it's worth it when you realize you have so much more control than the typical "normal" 2 parent household. Control of frame is life. Life is control!
ScoundrelHero 8y ago
I was going to make a future post on this somewhere about this exact point. I am free to raise my daughter how I want without being belittled in front of her or argued with. I have coworkers, married, who have these issues. I will not have to deal with it ever.
DracoPhage 8y ago
That's it. I'm out. I didn't need sex anyway.
[deleted] 8y ago
Dude I don't know. My first girlfriend, rode horses and had money, she was cool about it. SHE made it clear she'd get an abortion and took the plan B I got for her easily. She was like more adamant about it than I was.
I think if you find a classy girl who's concerned about her image from a nice family, you might be alright. Classy women who care what their parents think don't wanna be scuzzy single mothers.
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AnAbsoluteSith 8y ago
Also women with a lot to lose. As a guy in college, one of my added safe guards is I only go for women with something to lose: so I try to keep my dating pool to med students, law, or any girl seems hellbent on being a "successful-independent-womyn". Most of the times they seem more concerned than me when it comes to pregnancy.
screenmagnet 8y ago
This is what I tell men all the time.
[deleted] 8y ago
Yeah dude that's what you do. There are plenty of successful women who don't want to deal with a kid from a guy who she's not married to. These women who would have a kid while single and force out child support are scum.
EnlightenedViking 8y ago
This might be just another comment to you but it really struck a cord with me. Do you still communicate with her?
[deleted] 8y ago
Why did it strike a chord with you?
No we don't talk, we're friends on facebook but that's about it. She's like fetishized in my mind to an unhealthy degree, but I have self control about it and refrain from talking to her or being desperate.
EnlightenedViking 8y ago
Same scenario with me. Her mom talked to her about having an abortion. She was school at the time.
Also was fetishized in my mind - weird how that works.
Thinking about what might have become of my life is motivating as fuk
[deleted] 8y ago
Haha yeah she's a perfect sexy thing my god. It's probably pretty unhealthy how we view them haha. It would have never worked out though bro I wouldn't sweat it.
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ChadThundercockII 8y ago
Reading through all of this, I feel empathy the guys living in the West. So much struggle, so much pain, and so much bullshit for no measurable reward.
Cyralea 8y ago
I really hope everyone is paying attention to one crucial detail: OP's decision to play the game from a Machiavellian fashion literally from the moment he discovered he was a father. No emotional reaction, no attempts to plead and play for sympathy or mercy; just cold, ruthless game tactics to win. Understand that in situations like these the other person is no longer a human being, but an object that threatens your autonomy and well-being.
Stoicism saved your life, friend. Very impressed with how you handled it. The best thing you could have done was put on a rubber before nutting in her, the second best thing was what you laid out in this post. This is sidebar material.
[deleted] 8y ago
Well, he did react, but was smart enough not to let it show.
I definitely agree, this belongs in the sidebar.
Overkillengine 8y ago
I also hope people realize this is the mindset one has to take in a divorce if one was unwise enough to get married in the first place.
FEMIMARXIST 8y ago
And more men need to realize that this is the default mindset for most women as they are con-artists by nature.
TheMGhandi 8y ago
I agree with what you've said and stress that it must not be sidebar material for that very purpose. If this post gets popular, how long until word gets out about what we're doing? It's better we have a few thousand people know of this post than potential single mothers using it against us.
Jaridan 8y ago
i'd doubt that, also it's not that easy to pull off :S
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[deleted] 8y ago
No emotional reaction, except for all the extreme stress he put himself under. Did you even read the full post dude?
Cyralea 8y ago
An emotional reaction isn't the same thing as experiencing emotions. Everyone experiences emotions, no one's a robot. How one reacts in response to emotional stimuli is what determines the outcome.
An emotional response in OP's case would have been to try to bargain and reason with her. To ask for an abortion up front. It's the instinctive response. Instead, by fighting that immediate reaction and taking a tactical overview of the situation OP came out way ahead.
That is the crux of stoicism.
MDSPL 8y ago
I know this will probably get buried somewhere, but hopefully you will read this. This post almost brought me to tears, because I wish my dad cared this much about me and my sister (instead he jumped of a building, probably screaming I'm a loser all the way down). You are obviously not like this, and therefore I am happy for your daughter.
Keep strong man. You can be proud of yourself. You gave your daughter the dad she deserves. Shit will get hard, and you might need to fight this battle again at some point, until your daughter is old enough to realize you are what she needs for herself. Just don't let her mom convince her otherwise.
ScoundrelHero 8y ago
There were a lot of dark days where I did not think I could do it. I would never blame a guy for walking away after everything I've been through. I have empathy now for the dad's that walk away. I have empathy now for the guys that beat up women too (in the sense that your brain sometimes is so stressed out that the only suggestion that you can even see through the red haze is to start swinging). I'll have anxiety attacks to this day even though I know that nothing is wrong and that I'm safe right now. I often say that I'd much rather have a Ray Rice punch to the face than everything that I've gone through. Give me a broken face any day to this 15 month long hell for my daughter.
You're fighting a fight that seems so unfair and so set against you for a person you've never met and you don't even know if you'll like after it's all set and done. I still have to deal with parental brainwashing, false molestation charges, and whatever else the future brings. Don't blame your dad too much, he was alive in a time where these fights were even harder and more set against the Dads. I'll be honest the thoughts of what I would do if I lost everything were pretty fucking dark.
U96Q69 8y ago
Isn't sperm donor route a lot cheaper, if the mother doesn't want a abortion, unless of course you want to get involve with the child's life.
[deleted] 8y ago
Wouldn't it have saved you tons of trouble if you worked on establishing rapport with the mother instead?
Fuck, even if you were genuinely sociopath, you should know that your best option is to win friends not make enemies.
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awmace5 8y ago
Seems exhausting. Why didn't you wrap it up? Or did the condom break?
donit 8y ago
This sounds like a war. I'm so sorry you had to go through all of that, just for doing something that is natural.
So, what is causing it to be this way? What is causing a formally joyous event to be one of misery? Is it the child support? Would eliminating child support eliminate most of the fighting?
Is it that parental rights are unclear? If we were to enact a law that says each parent gets 50% custody no matter what, then there wouldn't be anything to argue about. Right now, it seems like it's just a free-for-all where you have to battle it out over the baby like Roman Gladiators.
This seems like a failure of laws, not people.
And pitting mothers and fathers against each other like that eliminates any chance for a reconciliation of their relationships. So, the state is literally ripping families apart and guaranteeing nobody in this situation will grow up in father and mother family.
Couples fight, break up, and get back together. It's a natural part of the relationship process and is what establishes boundaries between the couple. But when you inject certain legal ramifications, then winning the legal battle suddenly takes precedence over repairing the relationship, creating a toxic environment with no possibility for reconciliation.
Instead of helping children and promoting families, we now have a system that interferes into relationships and rips them apart by forcing one to serve the other rather than allowing them to establish any kind of mutual agreement, creating an environment where it is nearly impossible for families to willingly form and come together. By removing free will, there can be no relationship.
rufrkn_kidding 8y ago
Bingo.
Follow the money. Family court is a $100 Billion industry; a true kleptocracy -- and it is built to incite conflict thus creating a revolving door of repeat business for the corrupt judges, lawyers and "experts" until the assets of the warring factions have been depleted.
See: Divorce Corp 2014 [edit: to fix link]
[deleted] 8y ago
yeah. I'd even go so far to say women would rather give their children to their fathers for part or more of the time should the legal system not be there. Without that child support payout, there's no reason to use the child as bargaining chips anymore.
RedDeadlift 8y ago
This would help significantly. Child support laws are so fucked up in the USA. The more time the woman spends with the child, the more money she gets. She is financially incentivized to keep the father's child from him. It's just terrible. There are other developed countries where custody is a simple 50/50, child support is based on what the child needs and not the higher earners income. It's so simple that often no lawyers are not even needed. It boggles my mind why it's not like that here in the US.
Edit: From another comment:
This is why. In the USA, money > family stability and child well-being.
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RedDeadlift 8y ago
Scandinavia has fairer laws. Denmark was a simple 50/50 until just recently.
http://cphpost.dk/news14/national-news14/parliament-to-end-50-50-child-custody-rule.html
They modified it so that the child could choose to spend more time with one parent than another.
That said, in the US, children are seen as cash cows. Withholding a child from your ex entitles you to more money based on your ex's salary. It's just bizarre to think about.
The documentary Divorce Crop has additional information.
balalasaurus 8y ago
I only have one thing to say: archived
exit_sandman 8y ago
If anyone still needed a reminder that you shouldn't stick your dick in crazy, there it is.
no_face 8y ago
.... but they're all crazy! AWALT, right?
exit_sandman 8y ago
You know the hot/crazy-scale? It goes from 4 to 10 (it assumes from the onset that every woman is at least a 4). Now assuming that OP's version of events is absolutely legit, he got himself a 10.
A normal woman would probably have aborted because I doubt some rando's child support would be worth the trouble that comes with a kid.
Dopebear 8y ago
She's far from 10. A 10 can and would do a whole lot more. OP's women would be a ~6 in my books. None of what she had apparently done was surprising at all.
no_face 8y ago
Correct. Women who hurt their own kids to get sympathy (Munchausen by proxy) are near the 10 scale.
The woman who jumped out of the judges moving van in order to pretend he threw her out is near the 9 scale. Good thing he was recording it.
The woman who went to the police with a false rape complaint on her ex who had dumped her is near 8. Fortunately, he was in a different country on the date she gave the cops.
The woman who calls 911 because her date said something outrageous is near 7
This girl is six
Well.... Looks like 4 and 5 are the only options left.
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MattyAnon Admin 8y ago
... and if you have a problem with her behaviour, you're the sexist misogynist.
Good work on being so stoic, OP... I know I couldn't have been.
Swanksterino 8y ago
I feel like the abortion thing is weak. I've told both girls who claimed to be pregnant that was the only option as far as I was concerned. She wants to "throw me under the bus"? IDGAF, my reputation is way less important than not having a baby at 22 yo. Plus, it damaged my reputation zero points both times.
If you want her to have an abortion, just friggin tell her.
[deleted] 8y ago
Am I the only one that thinks hat telling her to get an abortion would have been a better idea than saying start taking special pregnancy pills? OP - this post is what happens if you get someone pregnant and they refuse the abortion. With this title - I feel like the entire post should have been geared towards making her get an abortion. Tactics like making it seem like your poor - i.e. asking to borrow money, etc. I feel like you fucked up a bit by not doing everything you could have to get the abortion. Also - by going for the paternity test so quick - doesn't that make it seem like you have something to lose....which is incentive for her to keep it?
RedLavaLamp 8y ago
I agree with this 100%. In fact if the girl really liked you, letting her know that deciding to carry through with the pregnancy will mean the total end of any relationship without you outside the court, might do the trick. The first weeks are the only point you have any power (persuasion wise )to stop this. If she goes ahead anyway you have months to turn around and make nice if you need to.
RedBigMan 8y ago
By requesting the paternity test he was hoping that if some other dude plowed her fertile fields in the same time frame that he might not be the daddy but if he was the daddy then he was 100% certain.
[deleted] 8y ago
Yep that would be much more worthwhile. Acting like a low class individual. If that doesn't work then play the love card and say we could use the money spent on kid for vacations and then raising a kid later. Abortion has to be plans A, B, and C
CHAD_J_THUNDERCOCK 8y ago
The 4chan solution is to get her to drink huge amounts of orange juice, not that I condone such behaviour.
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Esminia 8y ago
Yeah, sneak an abortion pill in her food, or do some research and do a cocktail of every chemical compound needed for an early abortion or a failed pregnancy, make her eat it for all her pregnancy duration, and you're set for a happy life if you have no morals, or a life with therapy following if you do. Even thoe worst case scenario is better than living life with only half of waht you deserve
[deleted] 8y ago
so your suggestion is to commit a felony?
Esminia 8y ago
Yeah. It's extremely edgy but I believe the system, or at least the legal system doesn't protect me in some fields, especially on marriage or religion.
If you know the law is against you, you either have to live like a bitch and respect it, or you can at least try to work your way around it.
If you do NOT commit a felony, you're fucked for your whole life. If you do, you committed a felony, and that's it. You'd have to unveil your plan on the internet from your home pc or be completely retarded to get caught.
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vicious_armbar 8y ago
How we allow trashy single mothers to ruin men's lives on a whim is abhorrent. The fact that millions of children will grow up in poverty without a male role model; because of the choices of selfish women and grandstanding politicians is abhorrent. Comparatively what we do with small clumps of fetal cells shouldn't even be a blip on the radar.
[deleted] 8y ago
it's pretty fucking abhorrent but we aren't pussies over here at trp. the kid is already fucked because he/she would be raised by a trashy single mother who got knocked up at some random party. let's end it before it starts hurting eh? also I wouldn't wanna go down with it.
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Enjoyitbeforeitsover 8y ago
Honestly this sounds fucked up but, has anyone on here ever convinced a woman to do so. All I know is that if you fucked without a condom expect the worst. I'd feel horrible if I told a chick to get an abortion like around a month or 2 in the pregnancy, but I wouldn't mind saying to her to do it if this has been like a few days after it happened. I guess the answer is it depends. I'd guess don't fuck around so much if you aren't ready, and never without protecting your browski.
ScoundrelHero 8y ago
My stance on abortion has always been a do unto others as you would have them do unto you. So there are situations where I would say, yes please abort (situations where I would rather be aborted than carried to term).
This just wasn't one of them. Daughter has no genetic issues, Mom zero drug use during pregnancy, Dad makes enough money to provide for a child and has a college degree.
I assure you though even if I was 100% for abortion, which I wasn't, suggesting it before you know how it will go over is a bad idea. Mom wanted WANTED to be the heroic single mother. Suggesting an abortion would have played right into that fantasy for her.
1ass 8y ago
I understand where you are coming from but I am one who believes that you should only have a child if you are with a partner of incredible value.
That you understand your goals for this child and the child's impact on society are the same as the mother. You simply cannot do this with some short time bar hookup that then turns Walmart on you taking you back and forth to court.
You think this child is going to turn out great with this kind of upbringing then you are mad. Having two healthy families working together to raise this child is what is needed and that cannot happen in your situation of emotional warfare you are wholeheartedly involved in.
mouseinthegrass 8y ago
i'm struggling with the timeline. you slept with her on a singular occasion and she calls you two weeks later confirmed pregnant or had you slept with her before?
it takes at least 10 days to two weeks for the hormones to register on a pee test post-conception. if she were ovulating at the time, two weeks from ovulation is barely long enough to start your period much less feel late enough to take a test. why'd she feel the need? it sounds like she fucked you with a purpose and took a test as soon as it would read.
Clackaroo 8y ago
First, blue eyes and red hair. Now, this. OP may want a second paternity test.
RPmatrix 8y ago
usually a recessive gene causes this
Clackaroo 8y ago
Biology is strange, but not immune to Occam's razor.
[deleted] 8y ago
Girls get horny when they ovulate. But, yes. Everything says knocked up on purpose. When I was trying to get pregnant with my now ex wife she bought pregnancy tests at Costco she was going through them that quick.
mouseinthegrass 8y ago
can confirm: am girl. i went off birth control a while ago and it's fun letting my body ebb and flow. dropping egg horny is a special kind of horny; horny with a fucking biological drive behind it. i imagine it's what guys feel 100% of the time in which case, bless your hearts. you can't possibly know the clarity of not having the "want to fuck something six feet into the ground" in the back of your brain screaming all day.*
i'm childless (time and money is for me, kwim?) and 30, so fighting my body back from its last stand is a real thing. i feel for its desperation, but i'd rather use it to cum real hard and smoke weed whenever i want.
*edit: i love all things universal that balance. maybe this is why we're burdened with a week of irrational cunt wetting and the annoyance of PMS (for real, i cried last week b/c i saw someone being generous to someone else. just wept. it's dumb), and stupid blood letting. we get one real solid week a month of brain correctness void of any primitive hormone driven garble; i think we have the leg up on this one, fellas. BOOM.
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Enjoyitbeforeitsover 8y ago
Girls get horny before, AND when they are ovulating. I thought it was always before. I thought them being all stressed out and shit, was from all the hormone bs going on when they are ovulating. It's hilarious how I just never googled this shit.
mouseinthegrass 8y ago
the female reproductive cycle is cascading marvel of chemicals. it's a shame most dudes don't read up on it; it's insightful as fuck into reading behavior and how the mechanics of pregnancy physically occur so one can avoid them.
the end game purpose of being horny is to fertilize the egg. sperm can stay motile and vital for up to five full days inside the uterus. getting horny before and during ovulation ensures sperm will be present to fertilize a released egg b/c it can ONLY be fertilized while in the fallopian tube and that has about a 24 hour window. sperm being super abundant serves two purposes: getting an egg timed right is like shooting an arrow almost blind AND the first sperm to get there doesn't get in--sperms have enzymes in their head section that erodes the egg membrane and it takes weakening by the first comers for one of the other randos to pop in when and wherever a weak spot occurs.
Enjoyitbeforeitsover 8y ago
I wouldn't mind reading up on this but honestly I would just prefer something thorough but not too long. Knowing how these hormones affect a woman and her attitude or actions is something not to be ingnored at all, you're right. If anyone has an article about this but written for men, please let me know, as I never really see woman's ovulation discussed too much on here. I mean yeah a woman goes through that cycle but surely there can be something to learn so you know why or when to do or not do certain things around her. I mean if you're going to deal with this shit, might as well now when to go away and let them deal with that stuff. I can do a quick google search but I don't want garbage articles written for women though. Next thing you know my youtube and amazon history will also spam me, thinking I'm pregnant now. If no one has anything, fuck it, google it is.
mouseinthegrass 8y ago
how about a pro-tip? one of the ways women track their cycle is by the consistency and quality of their cervical fluid aka non-aroused state pussy juice.
pussy wet serves the magic purpose of facilitating sperms' journey through the uterus. it's a chemically hostile place and fertile cervical fluid is essentially a river of protection straight to the baby seed.
less fertile times, let's say directly after a period, the vagina is drier and any healthy discharge is whitish and crumbly. not sperm friendly.
as she moves toward ovulation the cervical fluid will become more clear and stringy. elastic. it slides easily between your fingers and pulls shiny bright strings between your fingers. this is the good stuff.
as soon as the egg drops, that shit dries up and becomes drier, thicker, and more white until our uterus plops out the nice thick layer of bloody baby goo it layered into our oven and we start over.
Enjoyitbeforeitsover 8y ago
Well much thanks for sharing such great details. I straight up assumed you were a guy dropping knowledge, until the twist at the end. This might sound stupid but I had no idea women were on this sub. I asked simply to understand and possibly work things out with whomever I decide to let into my life. I would much rather know how someone deals with or is affected by something than to be shrouded in mystery. This is always something that's usually dismissed, yet it's important. Like I said maybe I missed a post on here, idk. It's good to see women scoping subs like this. I know the whole AWALT is just a symbolic thing. There's still good women. (Usually south of the border!) But this sub just has a persistent outcome since this is where a lot of fucked up stories are posted. But nonetheless good shit!
herewegoaga1n 8y ago
Save yourself a lot of pain and listen to this man. He's been through Hell and back. Speaking from experience, false allegations can destroy a man.
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TRPMaidenSlayer 8y ago
One idea I'd have is to keep a video camera handy for when things get fiery. Her mom comes over trying to start a "fight" and call the cops? Video camera is ON, and she doesn't pass through the door.
Of course, know your state's recording laws.
Ifuckinglovepron 8y ago
Security cameras on house. They are so fucking cheap and I don't think there is any state in America that does not allow them.
Betamax69 8y ago
During my second divorce ( I am not a smart man) I did as you mentioned with the GAL. Not as a strategy but just as dumb luck.
My ex hates having a man "controlling" her. So she always balked at being told when to be at appointments and that she had to explain her actions in a rational way. And by balked I mean eventually exploded on a court appointed attorney who she didn't realize was deciding in what home it would be best for my daughter to live. I remainder calm and stoic with my hands folded calmly on the tabletop. I mention this because it was in his report to the court of my calm collected and rational demeanor. And her combative nature and aggressive body language (clenched fists, raised voice, and getting red face enraged). It was so awesomely Machiavellian to give the GAL the little eye roll and sigh in court as the ex began ranting. Sort of here we go this is what I deal with. Watching a 275 pound feminist hamplanet have a meltdown in court is a glorious thing. Subtlety pointing out to her that a judge, her attorney, my attorney, and the guardian ad litem were four MEN discussing/deciding her future was like tossing a cup of gasoline into a bonfire.
I was granted temporary custody of my five year old daughter after jumping through so many hoops I can't even begin to type them for you. Since I showed that I had the stable work history, had a safe reliable vehicle, a safe home environment with support network and was a gracious courtier to all agents of the court my temporary order became permanent after a year of fighting.
I am technically the school placement parent in a 50/50 shared parenting set up. And yes, I receive child support. My ex gets every other weekend visits plus holidays and we flip living arrangements during the summer. From the last day of school until the last weekend before school starts she lives with her mom and I get the weekend visits. I threw that idea to the courts and it became our agreement.
Of course over the last 12 years I have so many stories of dealing with the child support agencies it would make the MRA's weep. The most telling of course would be the ex being over 6000$ behind on child support at one point and not going to jail for child support by crying in court.
TLDR; Guys can win in family court but it is super tough and expensive. Remain stoic and document EVERYTHING possible.
And Never Get Married. You do not have it figured out, trust me.
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Clackaroo 8y ago
Would the legal situation with your daughter have been much better if you hadn't been married to her mother?
Betamax69 8y ago
No. I would have had no rights at all period
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Betamax69 8y ago
Self esteem was at rock bottom. Scarcity mentality and access to a vagina. Looking back at your life through a red lens can be tough
[deleted] 8y ago
How exactly did you do that?
Betamax69 8y ago
Iirc we were about to go back into the courtroom after mediation. I held the door for her like a good little beta and with slumped shoulders and a sad voice said something like oh well I guess I have to do whatever these guys say.
popthatpill 8y ago
"... but by 2025 this had disappeared because of the wide availability and rapid uptake of Vasalgel."
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csehszlovakze 8y ago
It'll be made illegal because reasons. (Vasectomy under 40 is illegal here, too.)
sir_wankalot_here 8y ago
No by 2025, DNA tests will be illegal. They will argue that Vasalgel is not 100% effective. The father is automaticalky who the woman says the father is.
Unfortunately wankalot might not be around to enjoy this ☺
NPIF 8y ago
I'm getting to the age now where kids are becoming something I actually want instead of something I dread... but goddamn our sons are going to have it good with products like Vasalgel hitting the market.
Gadnuk_ 8y ago
Vasalgel is arguably the most crucial potential development in men's rights. Condoms are only 91% effective according to the CDC. I will be the first in line as soon as it becomes available.
[deleted] 8y ago
Uh CDC says condoms are only 82% effective....
Edit:
http://www.cdc.gov/media/images/releases/2015/p0407-teen-pregnancy.jpg
AnAbsoluteSith 8y ago
I don't know if I missed something, but the rate that project is moving at it won't be coming out anytime soon.
Gadnuk_ 8y ago
According to the company website they are looking at small human trials in 2016, large trials in 2017, and bring it to market in 2018.
This is of course subject to public funding which is far from guaranteed. I plan on donating some cash to help the project because I want it sooner than later, but you are right the public release is certainly not imminent.
AnAbsoluteSith 8y ago
Thanks I didn't know that. That's actually a lot closer than what I originally thought. Still not holding my breath for anytime before 2020 though.
JDRaitt 8y ago
Would you not just get a vasectomy now?
Gadnuk_ 8y ago
There is the potential for it to leave you permanently sterile, and there can be lots of undesirable side effects. So I'm at a 'maybe'
If I had never heard of Vasalgel i probably would have already had the vasectomy, but knowing a superior fix is right around the corner it's tough convincing myself to go the surgical route. I may well get a vasectomy anyway, I just have reservations.
rpscrote 8y ago
im in the maybe category too. Dont want to be permanently sterile as the decisions still out on whether I ever want kids, but ive not felt any desire yet... plus the increased risk of prostate cancer scares me more
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rpscrote 8y ago
Its one of those "may be" sort of developing issues; we can't say for certain but its worth taking into account http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/07/17/a-vasectomy-may-increase-prostate-cancer-risk/?_r=0
PanzerBatallion 8y ago
I did. Didn't go well.
I was trying to wait for Vasalgel, but development is moving too slowly on it and I ran outta time.
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RedDeadlift 8y ago
Why didn't it go well? Any additional info would be very helpful for those of us considering it.
PanzerBatallion 8y ago
Yep, I'll type this out again and then probably just cut and paste in the future, since it's a pretty hot topic in this sub.
I'm 36, have 2 kids, and we're done with the children. Each BC method has it's pros and cons, there is no "perfect solution." The pill is dependent on your partner's ability to take it regularly. Condoms suck because who likes to fuck with a glove on? No one I've ever met. It's a smart idea, but it still sucks. The IUD has a tendency to fuck with the chemistry downstairs and if you're not totally mismatched with the girl for size, you can feel it during intercourse. Fishing line on the head of your dick is somewhat distracting. Vasalgel is an amazing idea, and will probably be the go-to method in the future, but it's development is painfully slow (seriously, google it and donate to the cause if you're interested, they need the help). My wife was having various hormonal problems not limited to 15+ migraine days a month with no other obvious causes. So, since she had been taking care of the BC thing for the majority of our marriage, we both know we're done having kids, and my lifestyle (I have free reign to pursue other relationships while maintaining this one), I decided it was in my best interest to get snipped. Vasalgel was just taking too long, and the right thing to do was to zero out the sperm count now instead of waiting until 2018 only to hear the FDA didn't approve it or some bullshit.
I had the procedure done in April. The doc told me I'd need a week off of work (I have an extremely physical job, desk jockeys won't need more than a weekend). Things were going good for the first day - minor swelling, the incision looked nasty, but not bad. Second day, the shit hit the fan. That's when the swelling and the pain got out of control. But hey, the doc said I needed a week to recover, so I spent the next few days with a bag of peas on my junk laying on the couch cleaning off the DVR. I literally did exactly what they tell you to - I didn't do anything strenuous at all, the extent of my day was getting out of bed, moving to the couch, and vice versa.
By Saturday (I had it done on Monday), the pain was so overwhelming I couldn't sleep. I had spent $230 on concert tickets for the following day, and there was literally no way I was going to be able to make the drive or be able to stand for the periods of time required to enjoy it. Standing was rough, walking was difficult, and sleeping was near impossible. Queue up the ER visit, to go get an ultrasound and a few other things done to make sure I didn't have any torsion issues (I didn't, thankfully), but the end result was basically "Sometimes it needs more time." I went back to see the urologist and he repeated the same, gave me another week off of work, and refilled my prescriptions.
I didn't end up getting back to work for over 2 weeks, and things still weren't going that great, but I ended up getting a better job for the summer where I was sitting on my ass all day and I figured that was manageable. It was not. I ended up getting a second opinion from a different urologist in June because the pain hadn't subsided at all, and that's when I learned about the Post Vasectomy Pain Disorder, where some small percentage of people (<5%) just have chronic pain after their vasectomy. They don't know what causes it and they don't know how to fix it. They can try to reverse the vasectomy, but there's no guarantee that will work. Plus it defeats the purpose of getting it done in the first place. They can remove the epididymis (which was inflammed and causing most of the pain), but there's no guarantee that will work. Or as a last case resort you can have your testicles removed. I don't need to explain too much on that one, I hope. In any case, he advised against all options because if you're in pain, trying to solve pain with surgery tends to just lead to more pain, and no real results. He told me to give it a few more months.
It took 5. 5 months of near constant pain. Pain sleeping, pain walking around, pain doing things, pain during and after sex. I got almost nothing accomplished this summer, I had a lot of landscaping and other projects to take care of around the house to get some more areas for our gardens, and I couldn't work for longer than a half an hour at a time on any of them before the pain got too intense to work thru. Not to mention the post orgasmic pain. Lemme tell you fellas - there's nothing better than getting off and then immediately doubling over and laying in the fetal position because of your balls.
This has lead to other consequences with me. 5 months of vicodin (for the pain) and advil (for the inflammation) have left my stomach completely wrecked. I lost 15lbs in 2 weeks in October because I was unable to eat without vomiting. I was puking up water for awhile. It took 2 IV's to make it thru that first week. It's been almost 2 months since that started and I still only eat one meal a day, can't eat at work, and I've stopped eating out entirely. My diet consist mainly of toast and crackers now, with one actual "meal" a day, and it's small. Remember the part where I say I work a pretty physical job? Yeah. So I'm trying to do 3000+ calories worth of work off of sub 1000 calories a day. I dunno how much longer I'll be able to keep it up, clearly there's some changes coming in my future as a result of this.
The majority of people will have their vasectomy go fine. They will get it done on Friday and be back to work on Monday. I want to stress this part -- most people I talk to say it was no big deal. However, there is a non zero amount of people that do have complications, and they can be serious and far reaching. I have met a lot more of these people since my procedure as well. It's starting to look like somewhere in the neighborhood of 1/20 to 1/40 people have these kinds of troubles, and how long they have them for seems to vary widely.
I'm not saying don't get snipped. I'd still do it again, because it was the right move for me at the time. But I am saying be completely aware of the possible risks and plan for them. If you can't be out of work for up to a month, don't get it done. If you have commitments shortly after that date, don't get it done. If you're expecting to lay sod or hike the Amazon a month later, don't get it done. Research the risks, understand them completely, and then decide if it's still right for you. It probably is -- just don't go into it unprepared for what may happen. You can't guarantee it will be reversible, you can't guarantee it will go well. Plan for either outcome.
RedDeadlift 8y ago
Thank you very much for the detailed reply! I had absolutely no idea that there was even a chance of such complications. I'm sorry to hear all that you are having to go through. I am glad to hear the pain finally went away. I will do much more research on the side effects (however small) and make sure I plan for the worst if I decide to have it done.
I've been regularly donating to the Parsemus Foundation for about 2 years now. We can all agree that Vasalgel cannot come soon enough.
Thank you again.
[deleted] 8y ago
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PanzerBatallion 8y ago
As few as possible now.
The ball/groin pain has subsided for the most part. Unfortunately, so has my drive. Hard to be interested in sex when you go thru what I did, I suppose. I'm currently pondering what to do about that.
fcjnews 8y ago
Cool. Look into Voltaren gel if you still need nsaids, it's topical so won't damage your stomach as much. Also, hopefully they gave you some kind of acid blocker if you were on high dose nsaids.
Enjoyitbeforeitsover 8y ago
You have some who say it's fine, others then post these comments and never share what happened. That's why I'm always wary of going for it now.
PanzerBatallion 8y ago
I shared, and I'll share every time I'm asked. See above, and if you have any more questions, let me know.
As far as I'm concerned, us 30 somethings exist so the 20 somethings can learn from our mistakes.
Enjoyitbeforeitsover 8y ago
It's great that you have this mindset. It's unfortunate this happens to people but I seriously wish I could have a flair indicating how such wisdom is not taken for granted. Everyday I see so much dicussion it's just incredible to have such a resource like this. People really break things down here, and a lot of learning happens all the time all thanks to those of you who've gone and lived through whatever life threw at you. When I first found out about TRP, It was too much. I got angry as fuck and then it was just incredible how all the fog just slowly started to fade. If it weren't for this sub, i'd be fucking lost. I'm always digesting whatever I can find and if I say dumb shit I also appreciate when people call me out and correct me. But I feel like things hopefully improve overall, I hope more people find this sub. I appreciate all of you guys and some women on here as well.
Squeezymypenisy 8y ago
Hopefully with condoms as well. Don't want sti infection to go up.
BrianW1999 8y ago
Do the Tom Leykis hail mary:
1.) Tell her that you love her deeply and you want to marry her and have a child together, just not now because you don't have the money, aren't finished school, whatever. Tell her you want to save the money for a wedding and house for her. Tell her you will pay for her abortion. Drive her to the clinic and get it done. Then run away.
2.) If she refuses, tell her that she will be a single Mother, she will be poor because you won't help her raise the bastard child. You will only pay bare minimum child support. The kid and her will have major issues. Tell her the only way out is for her to have an abortion. Drive her to the clinic and get it done. Run away after.
Joseph_the_Carpenter 8y ago
Jesus christ man thanks to this post I'm going to be getting a vesectomy scheduled today or tomorrow.
Enjoyitbeforeitsover 8y ago
Report back. Seriously some of us, are thinking of this shit. I swear this post changed a lot of people's perceptions.
Spiral-knight 8y ago
A solid read. I'm disappointed however to see how some of the comments are going. This is a worst-case scenario, something that shouldn't happen, yes. But IF it ever happens to you, then this will help you control the conditions of your loss.
Because that's all you can do in this situation, loose on the best terms possible
GraphThis 8y ago
This needs to be stickied. Amazing. God bless you and good luck with your journey.
[deleted] 8y ago
Thank god for someone like you exist. Thanks for sharing your story and the lessons you've learnt from them. Wow, just wow. Fucking masterpiece.
metalfan381 8y ago
Agreed. This was easily one of the best posts I've seen out of this sub. Thank you, OP
menergize 8y ago
You've saved a ton of sad, angry fuckers here a ton of heartache, money, pain and time by writing this. If you make a mistake, you play the game you've signed up for, and you play it fucking perfect.
Good job and kudos to you for how calm you stayed the entire time.
[deleted] 8y ago
I think it needs a greater emphasis on abortion. It's a case-by-case basis obviously, and if you have the baby, being the one who pushed for an abortion will come back to haunt you, but I'd personally take my chances. If you are having unprotected sex with a stranger, she's probably somewhat progressive. That doesn't mean feels aren't going to take over once she gets pregnant for real, but it does mean that there's a decent chance she's open to the idea of an abortion.
It's a perfectly legitimate and safe (especially compared to child birth) procedure. It's the perfect solution to your problem. I understand moral objections, but for those of us who think completely logically I believe that if we had statistics they would show that overall you get a better outcome if you at least attempt to nip it in the bud.
[deleted] 8y ago
Thing is if a girl is willing to have an abortion she will bring it up, even if its one of those sortakindanot bringing it up situations.
If a girl isn't willing to have an abortion, nothing you can say will change her mind.
PanzerBatallion 8y ago
I'd disagree with this statement. Progressives are WAY more likely to be using some kind of birth control intelligently because it's not stigmatized for them.
It's "Abstinence only" people you need to be concerned about, those are the ones who aren't going to be on BC for religious reasons, and they're the ones who are gonna get drunk and bareback you. Those are the ones you're never, ever, no way in how gonna get an abortion out of.
I know a lot of left leaning women who don't even have SO's that are on BC for reasons other than sex. A lot of conservative women won't even entertain that option due to misinformation and social stigma.
[deleted] 8y ago
I'm against abortion, but all for birth control.
If you don't want a kid, wrap it and make sure you don't get one in the first place.
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[deleted] 8y ago
This is a valid criticism. I'm used to the city, where it's assumed that any and every female you find in a bar is fucking around, using BC, and (at least theoretically) open to abortions. Take this discussion elsewhere, or get unlucky and find a tourist or the rare ultra religious city girl and you could be fucked.
[deleted] 8y ago
Lol man you're in for a surprise if you think all those women are on BC. Or are open to abortions themselves.
[deleted] 8y ago
living in Baltimore now 4/10 of the girls ive hooked up with here have been on the pill.
Edited: Ages 22-35 different ethnicities and within the last 16 months.
[deleted] 8y ago
I know a lot of women who can't handle routine tasks either.
it's your life, do what you want
PanzerBatallion 8y ago
BC doesn't necessarily mean "routine tasks."
The IUD is as good as it gets for female contraception and it requires literally no maintenance.
[deleted] 8y ago
Mine uses one, I wholy agree...
But you'd think those 5 year checkups would be a no brainer. I physically have to take her down there, because excuses are easy, and work is hard.
Its just a longer timeline
50pluspiller 8y ago
Was banging this stripper and the condom came off as I was pulling out, had to reach in and yank the mother it was so deep inside her. Spilled quite a bit, we just got "plan b" and thankfully nothing came of it.
[deleted] 8y ago
They may be progressive, but they want it to be their decision.
FerociousOreos 8y ago
Otherwise your ex girlfriend goes in without you, gets the abortion, then blames you for it and tarnishes your name to anyone who will listen.
[deleted] 8y ago
I'd rather she do this than have the kid, raise him/her to hate me, and collect monthly checks (that only go towards her weekend fund anyway). I can move. I can't dodge child support and adult responsibility.
FerociousOreos 8y ago
I will admit, at first I was heartbroken. I lost my child and the woman I thought I'd marry. Then I found TRP. And now it doesn't hurt so much, because it could have been so much worse.
[deleted] 8y ago
knock a girl up, try it out, post your field report.
I'll read it, damned right
[deleted] 8y ago
Ehh, alcohol for example can trump morals in the moment, it'd be easy to make a mistake. If I knocked up a girl, I don't think I could feel right about pushing for an abortion. In fact I'd probably object even if it was her inclination, I simply don't think it's right to give a human being life and the take it away. Both myself and the mother would need to be held accountable for our actions and raising the child is the only option I would consider.
[deleted] 8y ago
As someone in the medical field, I simply can't make the moral distinction between birth control and abortion. That mass of cells doesn't exactly have feelings yet, so why does it matter if you stopped it from existing before or after it started to form? That's an entirely different debate though, and you're of course free to have your opinions. Personally, I think the world is a better place with a family structure. Abortion makes that possible despite our crazy hookup culture, and that makes it the morally correct option for me.
[deleted] 8y ago
Many abortions occur late enough in development that I don't think it's justifiable to destroy the fetus. I suppose if it was the first or early second trimester but really once the brain functions start happening, it is alive for all intents and purposes. The way I see it is this: we have to keep so many vegetables alive just because it's the law, people that would honestly probably to prefer to die if they could speak, but human life forms with potential and a future they haven't gotten to see the light of day and don't have any choice must die due to the mistakes of their parents, just seems backwards to me.
[deleted] 8y ago
Like I said, you're free to have your opinions, and I respect your line of reasoning. It's not how I feel, but that's why it's a source of debate. There's no right answer here.
[deleted] 8y ago
Hey thanks for not insulting me and I of course respect your opinion very much.
[deleted] 8y ago
Hey man, this shit is my living. I have much harder conversations with much more difficult people on a regular basis in person. You're civil and easy to work with. The past few months of medical training has begun to teach me to actually respect the opinions of people I strongly disagree with even if they make no sense and don't reciprocate that respect. It's something the whole world could use a little more of.
[deleted] 8y ago
I hear ya. Honestly it seems that even the people pushing for tolerance in this world actually have none and only want tolerance of the things they agree with. If people would actually have tolerance none of this would be an issue, but it doesn't ever hold out on either side of any modern social issue.
[deleted] 8y ago
Honestly I would go insane...
Other option:
[deleted] 8y ago
Love the 3rd option. Sounds like a grand plan by itself already.
Newdist2 8y ago
Courts in France can order paternity tests.
What's against the law is men doing paternity tests on their own if they suspect cucking.
[deleted] 8y ago
Number 3 is right no matter if you roll about town getting sluts pregnant left ot right or live in complete chastity. Your wealth should ALWAYS be in gold or offshore companies. Bitcoin is acceptable if you're willing to gamble.
Not only women are happy to take your wealth, the government is also, for the smallest infraction. I'm from Scandinavia and the governments here will absolutely steal everything you've got if they think they can get away with it. Speed traps can cost you tens of thousands of €€s. The law has been written to make everything illegal, so it's very easy for them to go after you if they feel to. Protect your wealth or be forever paying the mob.
billcosbyeatsbabies 8y ago
Which country could this be, for an example?
ILikeToWriteInBold 8y ago
Would you share more information about this shell corporation and country? Pm is fine if you want to keep privacy but what you wrote sounds like something a friend will really need soon
LosingMoneyAllDay 8y ago
Yeah, I got "a friend" that is extremely interested as well. Any info would be appreciated.
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[deleted] 8y ago
Basically there are a number of countries (google since i'm not giving personal info) that have extremely low to zero corporate tax rates. If you start a company in country X with 5% corp tax and you employ yourself as an employee with the minimum wage you can easily avoid the 40-60% tax of most west european countries.
And in a number of those countries corporate privacy law is very strict so that is extremely difficult and/or expensive to ascertain the owernship of a certain company. Not something a local judge has access to or can even easily be aware off.
[deleted] 8y ago
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[deleted] 8y ago
Well, assume you make 100K profit with your company as an independent.
In France:
You will pay 33% tax on the 100K +social charges so you'll have roughly 60K left
Company in country X that employs you for a salary of 10K:
Your company pays the 5% tax on the 90K profit in country X= 85K left. You pay taxes on your salary of 10K in your country of residence= 9K left.
So in total you would get to keep about 92-93K compared to 60K doing everything in France.
ILikeToWriteInBold 8y ago
Thanks, is there one country where it has low tax, high privacy, and simple method of setting up from abroad?
Joseph_the_Carpenter 8y ago
5% is silly high, IoM has 2%. The double itish/dutch loophole was closed, but there are others like it. Best part is there's nothing illegal about it.
zincH20 8y ago
In America you can't do this though can you ?
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[deleted] 8y ago
Cmon man, you can't really say so and not say how to set up a shell corporation
Joseph_the_Carpenter 8y ago
Well IANAL, and the last thing I need is someone complaining that I told them wrong and got them in trouble with their government revenue entity of choice or flak from established individuals for spilling the beans on corporate structure. Most of it is googleable, or you can track down a real lawyer that will know the details.
SunshineBlotters 8y ago
I was under the impression that in France a girl name anyone as the father and no one can do anything about it.
[deleted] 8y ago
Not at all, if the father doesn't go to the mairi to testify that he is the father, the child will be fatherless. The mother cannot give a random name.
On the other hand, if you declare a child as yours and later you find out it's not, for the french law you will remain the father for life. in order to protect "The Peace of the French Families"
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SunshineBlotters 8y ago
Thanks for clarifying that for me. That makes a lot more sense
[deleted] 8y ago
Wait, so you frogs can just have bastards with complete and utter impunity?
Am I reading this right?
[deleted] 8y ago
Let's just say the French government realised that nation wide paternity tests would destroy the fabric of French society, since pretty much everyone is fucking around. They even call it a "cinq à sept" (5 to 7).
freudianSLAP 8y ago
France seems really awesome all of a sudden.
[deleted] 8y ago
I know right?
I never saw the upside of the no paternity test law.
I always assumed it only helped paternity frauds. Never considered it was also a "get out of child support free" card for Chads.
bleed-red 8y ago
Can someone confirm if this is true or not?
pilule_rouge 8y ago
When a child is born in France the woman who gives birth is automatically the mother. For the father there are two cases:
Without a father the mother has to assume alone the child.
source: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconnaissance_%28droit_de_la_famille%29
Yes Chad can do whatever he wants, no financial scam. But it's more a moral question (like OP was showing, and the will to rise your children).
bleed-red 8y ago
Interesting, thanks for the followup!
UrsusG 8y ago
It boggles my mind how a person can be that intelligent, composed, thoughtful, smart, cunning, strategic and patient... only AFTER having been a complete chimpanzee who creampied a stranger.
BradPill 8y ago
Same here... "it doesn't make sense". Seems as if his complete strategy (and this post) is some sort of self-cleansing and/or reconciliation for his 3 minute tryst...
UrsusG 8y ago
"I fucked up big time for 18+ years, but I handled myself like a champ afterwards. I guess that makes it an overall success, right guise?"
Appleseed12333 8y ago
The whole time I'm reading I am thinking it is one big joke. No way this rational confident guy knocks up a random girl the first night WHILE giving her his contact information...
Oh, and OP, speak for yourself when you say drunk creampie'ing random girls happening to other guys, I'm not on that list.
NO_LAH_WHERE_GOT 8y ago
+1. No drunk creampies. No sober creampies. It's like playing with a loaded gun. Why?
UrsusG 8y ago
My point exactly.
And in reference to the OP:
If a guy has generally poor impulse control and it shows, in the sense that he's already failed in other aspects of life, then he might as well become a delinquent multiple dad, up to his neck in gambling debt, and with a benzo addiction. Go full retard, it doesn't make much of a difference at this point, anyway.
But to be like OP, who seems to have his shit together on a high level, but fails to control himself for 10 seconds at precisely the time when control is most needed – that’s inexcusable. He's a bigger failure than the first guy.
BradPill 8y ago
That's why I hope (in another comment) he'll have a vasectomy - we don't need more kids in 'broken' relationships.
Marsupian 8y ago
Don't trust yourself on alcohol, drugs and emotionally charged situations.
In the military they drill simple protocols for high stress situations as you can't trust logical thinking.
Do the same for yourself, always keep condoms in the same place and always with you and practice at full capacity before you get yourself high/intoxicated.
Do the same for other important acts either by reducing requirement to think (keys always in the same place) or drilling them in safer environments (practice landing from jumps before doing a parachute landing).
BradPill 8y ago
Funny - I said that last week here: https://archive.is/sIcm6 - seriously downvoted.... Sometimes TRP is so finicky...
Marsupian 8y ago
I'm not saying never get drunk or do anything reckless. I'm saying put systems in place so you reduce the chance of fucking up too badly. That said I'm not a fan of alcohol.
BradPill 8y ago
We all do/did stupid shit. Some more stupid than other. Alcohol just increases the risk of 'stupid' - that's all (but, no fan of it myself either).
[deleted] 8y ago
Cuz you're both idiots. These things are part of
[deleted] 8y ago
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[deleted] 8y ago
that narrows down the field considerably
Enjoyitbeforeitsover 8y ago
Yeah the don't stick your dick in crazy is a good reminder. I wonder if OP was really intoxicated for this. I don't mean no disrespect, just curious. I'm sure she was an angel before shit hit the fan, I'm assuming.
[deleted] 8y ago
Only OP will know. Either way, while a lot here had time to think it through, and tell him why he was wrong, and they would have done it better, OP seems to have been given 0 preparation time, and posting this is valuable to everyone here, and even the guys divorcing (who basically have this same scenario)
As more of them come out, strategy gets fleshed out and soon a nice little bible will come out in the manosphere "how to unfuck your life"
ScoundrelHero 8y ago
There are some subtle details I left out about why I fucked up that I haven't posted in the unlikely chance that my daughter's mom finds this post. She wasn't TOTALLY random and I really have no legitimate excuse. I don't even like to blame alcohol as I think that's weak as shit too. I was very drunk, drunk to the point where the next day I told all my friends that I was too drunk to consent and that I was raped. That always gets laughs when I tell people that. She was exactly the type of girl I go for, medium height, petite, very innocent looking. Let me emphasize that again, very, very innocent looking. So while these things probably won't convince you that I'm justified in fucking up (because I'm not justified in fucking up), they may shed light on why someone who is so rational and intelligent could possibly fuck up. And never let your guard down.
[deleted] 8y ago
I'm not shitting on your choices. I don't agree with your map, but your methods are valuable to the manosphere.
Thanks for posting
[deleted]
[deleted] 8y ago
Holy shit this is literally a blue pill manual. Did anyone read the same post as me?
Got a random stranger pregnant?
...
I'm totally just imagining OP sitting at his desk with a cup of coffee thinking how he's some kind of Red Pill genius.
[deleted] 8y ago
Glad I'm not the only one, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
nastynomad 8y ago
Awesome, looking forward to your future posts.
Buchloe 8y ago
Yeah... I'm gonna save this one, just in case
CptFizz 8y ago
Great writeup and sound advice. This belongs in the sidebar.
chrisindub 8y ago
You seem pretty intelligent for a guy who was so fucking stupid he nutted in a drunk chick he didn't know who had a way to find him.
bobbybouchier 8y ago
I don't know about everyone here, but I think most of us have had sexual encounters we wish we didn't have.
chrisindub 8y ago
I am not saying you shouldn't fuck every skank at the bus station.
By all means... raw dog every girl at your "Coping with STDs" meetings.
I am just saying don't let your sperm have any way of ending up in their vaginas.
[deleted]
Timmytanks40 8y ago
Not one weighing in at 275lbs god damn.
Squeezymypenisy 8y ago
I think you read the other story that was a comment on here.
Timmytanks40 8y ago
You're right. How the hell did the happen hmmm
Ibex3D 8y ago
When did he say she weighed 275 pounds?
[deleted] 8y ago
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chrisindub 8y ago
Lost it at "Hamplanet" lol
Ded
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eternal_temptation 8y ago
lol when ur ass is on fire, your brain tend to process stuff faster. OP must have been one of those ppl.
squidracer 8y ago
Sometimes drunk sex is stupid sex.. Hence the reason I cut back on my drinking
hiphoprising 8y ago
I'm actually thinking about doing the same. The amount of times I've come home hammered to bang my neighbor (which I would prefer not to) is way too high.
Enjoyitbeforeitsover 8y ago
Maybe cannabis is a chill alternative? Get fucked up but never wake up with a hangover again?
hiphoprising 8y ago
Ya cannabis right? Bro. If you haven't woken up at least groggy you must've just started smoking
Enjoyitbeforeitsover 8y ago
I've only smoked a fair share and I've only woken up groggy but from edibles. Nothing like alcohol though, I would always take a bit of grogginess over a hangover.
[deleted] 8y ago
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UrsusG 8y ago
Thing is though, his ancestors will continue to smile while the bitch poisons his life for years to come.
Because ancestors, or rather our tiny genetic overlords, don’t give a shit about the gene-carrying sack of meat's subjective quality of life. All they care about is getting copied.
lord-denning 8y ago
Bingo - I've been scrolling through the comments looking for this. Your post provided a wealth of information as to what happens once the baby is a reality. What about the events preceding? Any more detail you could provide on hints that this girl was looking to get knocked up (or a at least wouldn't mind) would help.
If I can pay you one compliment as a counterweight to all the "duh, you should have worn a rubber" comments (which I agree with btw) - given your obvious slickness in handling the matter, she certainly did manage to grab some great genes for the kid.
UrsusG 8y ago
In this sarcastic comment, not only is he justifying himself, but he also seems to be saying he succeeded because he got to spread his genes (unlike all the advice-giving, condom-wearing non-fathers in this thread).
Just because all his ancestors managed to breed, doesn't mean it's automatically a success to knock up the first 'nicest, warmest, most beautiful girl in heat' you meet at a party.
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Newdist2 8y ago
For 99% of the evolutionary timeframe, knocking up random chicks was a huge win for men.
UrsusG 8y ago
For 99% of the evolutionary timeframe, it was a huge win for men to kill strangers and take their stuff.
But we're no longer Ooga and Booga.
If OP successfully controls that evolutionary desire, he should also control his dick.
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CaptainWanWingLo 8y ago
I must commend you for not walking out of you daughter's life against all these odds and giving her a chance for a decent life. Her Mother doesn't sound like a good person.
bea5tly 8y ago
I came in thinking this would be a post on how to ghost someone like this. But damn man good information. And keep up the fight brother you got this shit!
Knute5 8y ago
Brilliant how to. But the bigger lesson is, as always: never put your dick in crazy...
Incubus130 8y ago
Can someone explain why she was so crazy? Did she not want the father to be in the daughters life? I know women are irrational but this is pretty batshit.
rp_divorced 8y ago
She wants to hurt him in some way. Why? Who the fuck knows. She doesn't even know. She just knows she wants to hurt him.
My ex wife tried to make me an every other weekend father after she told me she wanted a divorce and I didn't do the divorce the way she wanted. Her response was to try to minimize my involvement in our children's lives after 17 years of marriage. She didn't get what she wanted any step of the way because logic won out over emotion.
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mgbkurtz 8y ago
Oh god, I'm talking to my doctor about getting a vasectomy today.
[deleted] 8y ago
So many guys here shake in their boots when they have to deal with pregnant women. Their emotions are a little stronger and they're a little less rational than usual. It's not that bad, and those that think it is just need to man the fuck up. Pussies.
[deleted] 8y ago
For clarity- I just think it's ridiculous that some people here think that a pregnant woman is some unstoppable monster. A pregnant woman is just a woman on an extra long shark week. If you can't handle a little PMS, extended or not, then you have a floppy frame.
cover20 8y ago
So when the court system is inclined to give her primary custody of your child and your money, and she wants to hurt you, what's the best way to "man up"? Be a little specific here.
Jrknighton 8y ago
Great post, went through a similar situation involving my two daughters in my divorce and I got more than standard visitation. I also did the math on the child support and had the dollar amount slipped in instead of the percent which has helped me a lot as far as child support goes. Literally one of the most stressful things you will go through in life.
CopyAndPaste2015 8y ago
TL;DR Use a condom and check it afterwards
Donald_Fuck 8y ago
Halfway through I was thinking, 'fuck a vasectomy sounds like less trouble'
Fortheloveoflife 8y ago
Thank you for sharing your story. From a guy that never knew my biological father, for whatever reason, I salute you. Good work.
Sack up next time though lol
[deleted] 8y ago
so have you ever accused mom of being a bitch and forcing father to leave?
Fortheloveoflife 8y ago
No because I'm not a woman hating beta like you. My mother did a terrific job.
[deleted] 8y ago
You are going to be a Great Father. Thank you.
[deleted] 8y ago
Lessons Learned
Go to Law School and become a lawyer that works directly with this type of stuff. Secondly, this is all pretty rough. How about planning to have the mom "disappear". Then take full custody of the child. Wouldn't even mention this if this girl was a nice person and would actually want to work together for our mutual benefit and the greater good of our child. Not really serious. Just a joke :).
Whatever though. Having to deal with this type of person for the rest of her life doesn't seem like much fun. But it is what it is and I agree with you; I absolutely would do everything I could to be a huge factor in my daughter or son's life. Oh and the last name thing. WTF man. That would eat me up big time. I would make that my absolute number 1 focus. I mean the child being a daughter changes it slightly since if she gets married, it'll change anyway. But if it were a boy, there's no way, no how I would ever allow that. Congrats on the paternity test. I can't wait to throw this one out to my LTR or random slut one of these days. I must KNOW for a fact.
Also, isn't the 48 Laws of Power freakin' awesome? Any other books you guys recommend similar to this? I know he's got other books too like Mastery, Seduction, the 50th Law, 33 Strategies of War. Maybe I'll check out Mastery, but I would like something that deals with day-to-day actions like 48 Laws of Power, where I feel like Mastery is more of a "long-term" strategy guide. Still important obviously. Anyway, good stuff bro. Nice Post!
ScoundrelHero 8y ago
My philosophical argument for why everyone should always get a paternity test is this:
A child has a right to know with absolute certainty who their father is. When they go to a doctor and the doctor asks them if they have a family medical history for any diseases, being misinformed or mistaken about who their genetic father is can cause actual harm.
This is PR bullshit argument by the way, but it has never failed to get people to stop and think that maybe mandatory paternity tests would not be so bad.
dacostack 8y ago
One of the best posts I have ever read in this subreddit, you made a mistake and assumed all responsibility.
This is exactly how more people should react with women in general, just do your things, keep frame and act on what you can control.
You are a brave man and I'm sure this daughter will be raised well.
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g2r3 8y ago
Why do you care so much about the surname? This is about your daughter not some petty victory over your daughters mom.
ScoundrelHero 8y ago
I don't care as much now honestly. At the moment back a year ago it was more about the implications that she didn't judge me as good enough to even be considered in the naming of my child. It's a constant battle in your mind to remind yourself never retaliate, never get petty.
If it's something I can win, then I'll need to know if it's worth it. I'm not really sure which Law of Power will become appropriate (in victory never go beyond the mark you shoot for, or, crush your enemy completely).
glottony 8y ago
Hey man. Major props.
Keep a look out. I'm sure you'll find alcohol and strangers at the mother's place some time.
Just be aware.
vajav 8y ago
moral of the story....don't stick your dick in crazy
BallisticTherapy 8y ago
Also note that all women are crazy.
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ScoundrelHero 8y ago
7 months and then the lease is up. Would have made for a good story.
PIGamer86 8y ago
I realize this probably isn't the place, but can you tell us about your daughter and your experience with her so far?
tpsmc 8y ago
Week one buy her season pass to 6 flags. Remaining weeks, feed her massive amounts of vitamin C.
kcabnazil 8y ago
This has been my life for a little over a year now. Almost exactly the same. It was almost like I was reading my autobiography. It is truly motivating to hear that the plan worked out against the hyper-controller, as painful as the past two months of not seeing my daughter have been.
Momo_dollar 8y ago
Now it looks like the mum has failed in her aggression , control, and character assassination.. do you think her next move will be tears or to try and seduce you? Maybe it'll start with can't we just talk 121 over dinner/glass of wine...
Spiral-knight 8y ago
Just because her venom has failed does not mean it's spent. The next step will be tears or seduction. A show of vulnerability to convince him that the danger has passed. Then- should he heed his dick, suffer a slip of the tongue- anything at all. She Will Strike with a fury not yet seen
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donit 8y ago
I wonder if there an option of just giving in? What do you think would happen if the guy just says "cool" and then attempts to work out child support with the mother based on the average for their state?
I guess the mom isn't going to want to give away joint custody, so the only "get along" option would be to ask to visit often and offer to babysit, which would probably result in something like a 1-5 custody ratio. Still, the value of getting along and not experiencing an ongoing animosity might more than make up the difference.
danO1O1O1 8y ago
due to RP's past, I thought this post would go a total different direction and would be fish in a barrel for TwoXX, but thank you. not only did you do the right thing, but the guide is actually helpful to someone in that position. you did what a man would do. "don't fight the storm, just cover and brace for it. "
I'm glad that you choose to be in your daughters life. I got out with abortion (her choice, I concurred) otherwise I'd have a 10 year old kid. I'm 31 now and no kids and feels great! Sorry to rub that in though. you'll be a great father.
[deleted] 8y ago
I had a similar thing happen to me. You know what I did? After much arguing, I told her to get an abortion and left town. Never looked back.
[deleted] 8y ago
you weren't pursued for Child Support?
[deleted] 8y ago
To this day? No. Tomorrow? Maybe.
[deleted] 8y ago
guess you'll know when you're pulled over for speeding and extradited to another state. good luck.
tallwheel 8y ago
There must be a way to at least figure out whether she had the kid or not. Facebook? A remaining contact in town?
junkeee999 8y ago
You suck at life. Take responsibility for your actions.
DevilishRogue 8y ago
It wasn't his action whether she gets an abortion or not, it was hers.
junkeee999 8y ago
It all starts with the fucking though.
Fucking might lead to kids. That is just a fact you must be ready for when you fuck.
DevilishRogue 8y ago
And if you make it clear that if there is an accident then you both agree that she will terminate, no problem. She reneges on that deal and she has responsibility for that not you, so there is nothing morally wrong with skipping town.
[deleted] 8y ago
If women can opt out of parenthood, then so can men. I refuse to have my life decided for me because some barracks bunny decided to get off the pill without telling me.
[deleted] 8y ago
good for you, I will be doing the same thing.
junkeee999 8y ago
You realize that fucking can lead to children, right?
[deleted] 8y ago
That doesn't address any of the points that I raised.
whenfoom 8y ago
This is - perhaps - the paragon of TRP thinking. Masterful, mindful, an a graceful exposition of the 48 laws. Very well told. This is beautiful.
notmyusualreddit 8y ago
The only thing this thread taught me was to continue using a burner phone number and a fake name for anything Id consider 'a stranger'.
If a chick is the kind to literally hook up with virtual strangers, shes not the kind I trust with my real identity.
If you get a sense shes more than a one night stand, the first time she calls you the fake name, you say "oh jesus you still only know my fake name." I can often keep the fake name joke going for another 'visit' or two. By then they get a real first name. And then I make them earn the last name (RARE) over a few more.
But pump and dumps? Never.
DRMMR76 8y ago
I made a post some time back regarding helpful tips on how to protect you identity from hookups and remain anonymous. Surprisingly, it was met with being called crazy and over reactive.
[deleted] 8y ago
was that the one about using AirBNB as a pad? That was pretty clever actually
DRMMR76 8y ago
No, can't take credit for that.
notmyusualreddit 8y ago
They say minutes of preparation save hours of execution. Well, if 15 minutes to download a voip app and set it up (or the $20 a month for a burner phone), and 5 minutes to practice your fake name are too much for them... whatever.. deal with the crazies. In reality we cant have too many guys doing this or girls will start being clever and 'oh let me see your ID' when the bartender asks to see yours, or shell glance at your debit card or receipt when you pay. (I actually pay cash for just this reason usually on tinder dates)
I knew this was worthwhile the first time a chick got weird and annoying so I just texted her "This is a burner phone. Im changing the number. Bye" I swear to god she didn't even respond. It didnt even really matter if it was true, she realized she actually knew nothing about me.
[deleted] 8y ago
Changes subject to a light compliment and easily manipulates her need for validation.
notmyusualreddit 8y ago
That easy today. Im saying that if tons of guys start burning women with fake names, they will literally start requiring to see real id to text their friend to feel safe. Sure a few will continue being fly by night sluts, but most will want some security they know the guy. These days they still trust what you say or what tinder linked to your fake fb told them.
Date_Rate 8y ago
because wearing a condom is easier?
[deleted] 8y ago
Mate it's the age of dual SIM, make sure you have one, it even looks and sounds like the same phone!
DF-RP 8y ago
What do you do for apps like whatsapp/snapchat etc.? Apps that you'd use to communicate with both your regular friends and the 'strangers' you meet. Can you have multiple active accounts on the same phone or do you basically strictly use sms and phonecalls only with randoms?
Brave_Horatius 8y ago
Android and a bit of know-how. Slices was the app I used but you need to root your phone. Dot use it anymore so can't speak for how good it is these days
[deleted] 8y ago
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[deleted] 8y ago
No the only occasion you do this is when the government is after you, and you have to lose everything.
With a shit girl it's just as easy as throwing away the sim.
You can get free pay as you go sims, that aren't tied to your phone. Nowadays my second one gives me free text messages and data every time I top-up, I got it from ASDA, so that's basically Walmart.
Jaereth 8y ago
Unless you paid cash and cash only and have a true "burner" cell phone, they will track it back to you when it comes time for child support.
notmyusualreddit 8y ago
First off, I do mean true burner and cash. But even if its a voip burner, and you used your atm card at some dinner and bar back in November. By the time the chick realizes shes fucked and pregnant, there is no way shes getting some police warrant action to obtain the receipt information for a restaurant last month let alone 10 months ago. Nor is some texting app going to release my IP address, nor is att going to release their customer info.. all on some chick saying "but the dad is in their somewhere I swear."
And even if that WAS technically legal, I think most chicks would call the number a few times, realize its been changed/disconnected.. and abort, or come to grips with it.
RPmatrix 8y ago
I wouldn't be so sure of that!
[deleted] 8y ago
This. Don't give them too much credit. They assume everything will be easy for them. As soon as they have to put work or in realize the number isn't working anymore, like you said, they will know they've lost.
jdotg 8y ago
You sound like a pussy. Man enough to fuck some random but have to run and hide after? lol tell her to fuck off mate. Grow a pair.
Edit: just in case anybody sees this. Rape by deception is a crime in california. What he suggests is illegal there.
Pantek51 8y ago
Good luck telling the judge to fuck off mate
notmyusualreddit 8y ago
Exactly. One crazy psycho bitch and good luck explaining it to the police, the judge, the university, your employer, your family, hell even your future gf/wife when the crazy bitch gets bored 4 years later and finds your now wife on social media.
jdotg 8y ago
Comments like this are which led me to believe this sub is full of bullshit and want to be's
What are you explaining and why? If consent was given, there is nothing to debate. Youll know this much, so shut up and lawyer up in this hypothetical world.
Now, if you actually fucking raped the bitch, and she said no, then you are even more of an idiot and deserve your shit storm.
She cries rape once she wakes up? This shows you have no knowledge of the real world. Have you ever actually seen this happen, like in real life, not some internet story! Heres some media for you... Prep kid fucked some minor and his sexaul assault charge was thrown out because she consented, she was 15, that was the only issue.
Definitely fucked some crazy's and know plenty, but I have never once seen or heard of a false rape accusation, other than within the media. It simply just doesn't work like that. FBI figures 92% of rape charges are legitimate. Other estimates put the range around 2-10% of reported rapes being fallacious.
Theres some more to the story if your girl is out saying you raped her bro.
Ever heard innocent until proven guilty?
Get over yourself, you arent important enough to protect your identity. You arent Kobe Bryant or Ben Roethlisberger
notmyusualreddit 8y ago
This is about more than fake rape allegations.. although who the fuck needs that? Oh only hundred or thousands of men a year are false accused per this FBI stat, just risk it bro! You exchanged 7 lines via tinder, you can tell shes a decent person! Im not a wanna be. I literally do this and its not to commit crimes, because I do think they can track recently committed crimes easily via so many cameras everywhere even on stop lights. What Im worried about is the girl deciding later something went a way she didnt like and she wants to bitch at me or use it against me in some way. Im not going to let her, which makes certain crazy women mad and even crazier. I dont want them showing up at work to say how disrespected they feel because I never wanted to see them again after I talked her into bed that night.
I dont want them getting hung up on me and telling my next gf Im an asshole (happened to me several years ago).
I dont want them contacting my parents (happened about in college via the god damn general people search on google, before even social media).
I dont want them in my life at ALL if I decide they arent needed any more. This is for me to decide, not them.
jdotg 8y ago
Never personally experienced that dumb shit over in this part of the woods. Broke off shit real hard. They know there is no chance. Sounds like you are leaving opportunity on the table.
But heres my issue! List of fake shit you've been talking about:
Fake idenitity alternate reddit name Fake phone/number Fake tinder/FB profile So its just a natural progression for me to believe you are making some more shit up. But you "literally do this." LOL ill take your word.
While if thats your game, thats your game. I wont knock.
If these girls are stalking you, you gotta lay the law down. Like calling your parents and telling your new girl? Id love for a girl to call my dad. This is now a goal. I think i can already hear the laughter.
But come on man. That goes back to my original statement. Grow a pair.
In a roundabout way shes already won, shes controlling you because you got this fake life setup just to wow her for a night. You are worrying about potential consequences that havent happened! Have you thought of it in that respect?
Invite said dumbass out somewhere public, say you gotta talk. Then fucking berate her dumbass in public, not yell but loud enough you know? Dont cause a scene, but get that point across. Done it, it works. Her face was priceless. Shell ghost on you. I feel like the problem with these tinder folks is they dont communicate effectively!
Do you get fired at a job by a text? Hell no, they sit your ass down and say you fucking suck, move on. Thats what needs to happen out here, gotta fire these hoes.
Seems like there is still work to be done with you, but you have the philosophy. Not trying to come at you, just being real and honest. We owe it to ourselves.
Edit: Saying this post is being deleted lol there is a link on the right side that im linking to that it doesnt like. About not giving a fuck, find it and read it. I think it applies here
notmyusualreddit 8y ago
Im glad that you are able to make a show in public, or have girls show up at your job and it doesnt matter. Glad your family doesn't give a fuck what happens but mine would wonder how I upset a girl like that. They dont know I whore around on tinder because they think I spend my time working as hard as possible or having fun with healthier hobbies.
You do whatever you want. For me its so easy to give a fake number instead of a real one, and a fake name instead of a real one, its virtually part of the fun these days. Thats why I have a common joke where I tease girls I like about knowing my real name and slowly have them earn it, as I stated earlier.
It costs nothing via voip, and virtually nothing with a secure burner phone. The cost (~none) is GREATLY outweighed by the benefit. 'Worrying about potential consequences that havent happened' is the entire point of insurance, planning, higher education, savings accounts, skill preparation.. virtually anything worthwhile. But um, ya lets go living in the moment and giving any random bitch my name and phone number for the fun of later finding out if shes crazier than I could be if I had to, or want to be.
jdotg 8y ago
You are missing the mark here. The point of the public show is to break her. It would put you so high up on her pedestal, she would know she isn't comparable to oneself. Shell see more value you in, but its clicked. Youd never stoop down to her level in something committed. The effect? Shes gone.
and why would you care what these people in public that have no idea who you are, think? Thats going against the philosophy here.
Thats the point. When you are a pussy and don't answer texts, or let her down softly. You get your result. She realizes this, and you get psycho bitch. Somewhere along the line, some fucked up girl is still manipulating you, and having you hide. Shits embarrassing for me to even think about with respect to this sub, but you live it. I couldn't imagine, hence the pep talk.
This ALL goes back to what Ive been telling you.
You definitely need to read the link "One Key Step to Not Giving a Fuck" Its under references. Its main sentiment, you are nobody. So is she. So is everyone.
These comments are buried so deep, Im not out here for attention, but to help. I see a brother in crisis.
Its not about cost, its about the effort you are putting in to get laid. Its ridiculous. You dont have to go through that nonsense. I feel bad that you do just to "protect" yourself.
notmyusualreddit 8y ago
I am dumbfounded about you not understanding that a guy is at a severe disadvantage with the courts. Im not going to risk a weirdo acting out and getting me involved with them in any way. Or ruining my work reputation.
You do your breaking them thing, value demonstration, whatever. I forget they exist if I dont like them. If they bother me after that, I change the number for free and they stop.
With my method I am in COMPLETE control. With yours, its all good until its not. And then you're as fucked as she wants you to be.
our_guile 8y ago
Reading through your post my heart started racing and I felt myself becoming more anxious. This is something that terrifies me. You handled this situation incredibly well.
Stonish 8y ago
Im getting this professionally translated just so I understand everything as should be. Thank you.
[deleted] 8y ago
I hate to rain on the parade, but:
A victory against a system that seeks to destroy you will be short lived. That you managed to play your cards right will most likely provoke somebody higher up and new false allegations will rain upon you. Right now you're just a fish that managed to slip through the net.
And after all of this you'll only have 50/50. Prepare for false child molestation accusations. Prepare for step-daddy actually molesting your kid. If it is you kid. When the opportunity gives, take the kid and run.
Rougepellet 8y ago
All warfare is based on deception
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BradPill 8y ago
I hope you have some money left for a vasectomy.
rife_omeqa 8y ago
I don't know if I'd call a man with months of effort, thousands of dollars spent and a spotless angelic record sharing 50/50 custody of his child with the mother with the track record you've described as "winning".
You didn't start with many options and you've made it this far in better shape than 99% of men in similar circumstances. Well done.
hjayu3yh3hh 8y ago
Two important pieces of information I feel you left out:
How old were you?
Did you still get to have sex with her?
FinickyFizz 8y ago
Such level of play will seriously start ducking with your brain, and psychopathy is possible. Decide if you want to be psychopathic and go from there. I know of a Co worker who had to deal with a narcissistic grandmother who ended up being the sweetest talking psychopath who everyone working for him came to hate because of his manipulation.
squidracer 8y ago
I had two pregnancy scares at the exact same time a few years back.. I got lucky.
I've had one safe fwbs for the past 6 years, other then that I've pretty much went mgtow for this reason alone, until I get a vasectomy of course
Joseph_the_Carpenter 8y ago
500 bucks and it's an outpatient procedure. Do it.
squidracer 8y ago
Actually only like $20(I have good insurance). I was putting it off just in case I wanted kids. But since the ex moved out I'm becoming more realistic about the issue
[deleted] 8y ago
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[deleted] 8y ago
Blames everything on her. Bends over the whole time. Didn't lead in a mutual problem. He's everything I've aspired to be.
[deleted] 8y ago
moulded 8y ago
I wish you the best of luck man. I'm only 23 and a child isn't anywhere on my mind right now but you writing this is going to help a ton of people.
This should be added to the sidebar.
onepill_twopill 8y ago
You've got me playing "Joy to the World" in my head. You've achieved the impossible.
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bananinhao 8y ago
worse than having a child is having a child and HIV
rpscrote 8y ago
TL:DR; Get a good family lawyer immediately and listen to his advice
turtlesdontlie 8y ago
I have sole custody. Still waiting on that child support check ha-ha! But when we shared him of course she was hounding me for support.
livelearndiee 8y ago
I can only relate to this post as far as the shit test, and it turned out to be just that, a shit test. It was never explicitly stated she was pregnant, my plate gave me covert signs at the beginning.
"My stomach feels weird" "Why" "Gee idk" (I know she knows in this short worded manner she comes off as passive aggressive to me and tries to make me assume the worst)
A few days later she tells me the same and I brush it off
The following day I asked her about her stomach and she said "why are you asking this?"
I felt the anger inside me rise as I figure she's definitely just playing with me and get me to admit I'm thinking she's pregnant
"Oh I care about your health"
After a few months her non pregnancy is confirmed as she showed no physical signs and you better fucking believed I danced
As a young male, this post makes me feel safer in the case this road have took a different direction, thank you for your contribution, may your health be optimal.
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Enjoyitbeforeitsover 8y ago
I needed that laugh, oh shit. I wish I would have payed more attention to this show as a kid. This show just screams don't stick your dick in crazy. I wish cunts would tone down giving young guys especially "virgins" a hard time. When the reality is a lot of them will realize their pussy chase will end up with them fucking up their lives, just to prove they could fuck at such a young age. Instead it would be better to throw down TRP at them. Tell them how fucking isn't the only thing you should focus on in life. If this thought is retarded let me know.
livelearndiee 8y ago
You lost me here my good sir.
Enjoyitbeforeitsover 8y ago
Can you give me some constructive criticism? I modified my comment a bit for clarity.
livelearndiee 8y ago
I understand what you're saying now, but I had to put in a little effort to figure it out and connect it, but let's critic it shall we?
You're talking to me about enjoying the video, wish you would have paid more attention to that show as a kid, take a life lesson from it "Don't stick your dick in crazy" So far so good
But then the context changes dramatically when you put
I get what you're saying, there's the natural chad thundercocks and alphas getting pussy, and there's the virgins, the virgins are being mocked for being virgins, probably by women and the chads, when in reality they're not really missing out on much, because pussy is definitely not on the pedestal.
You just lack a transition, as the "flow" in your sentence is immediately interrupted. I'll suggest a transition.
"I needed that laugh, oh shit. I wish I would have payed more attention to this show as a kid. This show just screams don't stick your dick in crazy, and I feel as if that's a fact that needs to be recognized more by cunts that give young guys, especially "virgins" a hard time..."
Okay now that we got that out of the way, you asked me to critic your thinking. You say TRP should be taught to kids at at a younger age so they don't praise pussy and don't mock others for not getting it, or so they don't feel insecure when others mock them for it.
I believe you are correct, our time is limited and we must stick to reality and those types of thinking further us from it. I don't find stupidity in your thinking.
I can give you a real life example of the equivalent of this, in my neighborhood there tends to be thugs and gangsters and boy those tend to be natural chads, but those motherfuckers have an inflated ego (that does attract pussy) that get them stabbed, beat up, shot and killed. It's kind of like the jungle. While these people do have their good fun and develop good confidence, I'm glad I didn't fall into that crowd (I was very sheltered) and I would rather send my son to a boarder school (hit him with TRP early) than have to deal the jungle problems (cunt mindset)
However I do believe TRP is all about enlarging your power, having your cake and eating it too. Wouldn't it be cool if as a child you got as much pussy as the chads and thugs, and that pussy didn't affect your thinking/actions at all, while also having the great discipline and education of a boarding school? I know the testosterone from sex would have definitely done me better my younger years.
If any of this is retarded let me know.
Enjoyitbeforeitsover 8y ago
No, this is far from retarded. By all means, you seem to have a great way of breaking down things and suggesting what needs to be improved upon. I hardly take the time to do this with replies. I'll just say that I always had subpar grades in English. It's never been a strong subject for me. But thanks for reminding me to pay more attention to how I transition or get a point across. This is seriously one of my favorite subs because I've noticed people take the time to really help others out. Seriously, thanks again man.
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BBQTofuNachos 8y ago
So what ever happened with your eyes? Did they stabilize?
ScoundrelHero 8y ago
Every couple of months my friends and I go on a male only camping trip. I showed up, hung out with my friends, got drunk with them, and the next day my eyes were fine. Haven't had an issue with them since.
[deleted] 8y ago
Two things: 1) congratulations to you for being capable of being such an incredible strategic thinker when forced into such an abysmally unfair situation. Actually unfair barely touches how wrong it is. My brother had a similar experience but unlike you he cut off all contact with mother, never saw the child, and just paid for 18 years. (Yes he had a paternity test) And 2)as an infant and small child your daughter may seem indivisible from the mother, but eventually she will be an adult and the better off for your involvement in her life.
huoyuanjiaa 8y ago
I feel like I could manipulate her while staying on her good side so that I get 50/50 custody or whatever else you've won. Why am I wrong? GJ though man, seems like a long tough fought battle for an accident.
RedSugarPill 8y ago
This sounds like the best way to have children. I'm throwing my condoms away after work.
I'M GOING TO BE A DADDY!!!!
NightwingTRP 8y ago
What a story. What a guide.
While I appreciate the achievement of OP as being somewhat monumental in today's court system... the Red Pill advice has to be "don't get a woman pregnant." The whole thing combines both helpful advice and a very sober warning to all men who are not in this position. (Is it really worth nutting inside that chick? Seriously?)
If OP's daughter's mom continues with her insanity then I think it's time to get some CCTV in your house and out the front. Beyond that, I think you're doing everything you can. Best of luck to you, and best of luck with the most difficult task of all - raising a daughter in this modern culture to try and prevent her making a bunch of bad life choices and ending up miserable. I think that task may be even harder than your court battle, but I sense you'll find an even greater emotional strength to be ready for it.
Jaereth 8y ago
Shit, I wonder if kids like coming out of high school realize this is the way the world works.
The way OP is absolutely powerless in the court system for almost the entire story, then in the end, getting to see his daughter 50% of the time is what constitutes the best case scenario. It makes me think vasectomy at age 18 isn't such far fetched idea if you know you are going to be livin wild for a while. We have to be getting good at reversing them by now if you really feel like it later in life.
agmatine 8y ago
My vasectomy was done by a urologist who has done the procedure over 10,000 times. He does not consider it to be "reversible" and requires that you watch an instructional video explaining this and sign documents indicating that you understand this before the procedure.
Eventually, we will have truly reversible long-term male contraception (e.g. Vasalgel). But unfortunately, that day has not come.
Enjoyitbeforeitsover 8y ago
Damn, I just can't believe how fucked up this is. Like fucking OP come here and let me give a you damn hug. I know that shit is useless, but damn how the fuck do you it. Yeah AWALT, I swear the goddesses are rare in america. All I ever dealt with is woman who are into nothing but superficial bs, nothing no one here has never heard of but man, this shit frustrates me, not for me but just how I feel it's going to fuck up the U.S, idk, maybe I'm overreacting, but then again, I read this stories and say wtf... It's crazy how some women truly are just fucking horrible people. What really happened? I know, feminisim, but it confuses me. I've been to countries south of the U.S. and I see humble and more down to earth girls, and they aren't so batshit crazy. I can spot the ones that are but does all this stem from spoiling a woman from birth? Is it entitledment that causes such damage? Can women be raised to be kind and not so evil?
SW9876 8y ago
I always knew how bad it would be to get a girl accidentally pregnant, but holy shit reading this made me scared for my life. I think i'm just never going to have sex.
devastationasian 8y ago
Man don't just give up... life is about taking risks...
sir_wankalot_here 8y ago
Are you sure the kid is yours, or have pregnancy tests become more reliable. The amount of days seems to be off.
I find this highly suspicious.
For you guys out there, here is a woman's fertility cycle. Look at the wheel thingie. Anyways the woman does not get fertile till 8 days after her period. So according to the wheel you would have had to had knocked her up on day 19 after her period. She would not know to do a pregnancy test until she missed her period. The baby doctor has a fancier wheel and she can tell when the baby was concieved and when it is due by the length of the woman's period etc.
Usually pregnancy tests are not reliable till 3 weeks after the woman has missed her period. Maybe the tests have gotten more reliable now, it is because of the hormones.
Even with ultrasound you can't see the baby till 4 weeks if I remember correctly.
I have kids, I am happy I have kids. But I don't want you paying for someone's cuckhold.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calendar-based_contraceptive_methods
[deleted] 8y ago
how about I tell her to have an abortion now. and if she doesn't, you leave the country and go very far? hypothetically asking
[deleted] 8y ago
I read on here that the wife got the house, money etc. and she still tried to destroy him so the guy did what you are asking and she can't do shit except going to tv shows and newspapers to making him bad press.
Squeezymypenisy 8y ago
Where would you go? It would need to be somewhere without extradition.
[deleted] 8y ago
idk, haven't really researched it. I've always wanted to live in one of those tropical island countries with 20k or so people
Squeezymypenisy 8y ago
Maldives has no extradition.
Clackaroo 8y ago
https://www.quora.com/What-countries-will-not-extradite-to-the-US
These countries currently have no extradition treaty with the United States:
Afghanistan, Algeria, Andorra, Angola, Armenia, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belarus, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brunei, Burkina Faso, Burma, Burundi, Cambodia, Cameroon, Cape Verde, the Central African Republic, Chad, Mainland China, Comoros, Congo (Kinshasa), Congo (Brazzaville), Djibouti, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Gabon, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Indonesia, Ivory Coast, Kazakhstan, Kosovo, Kuwait, Laos, Lebanon, Libya, Macedonia, Madagascar, Maldives, Mali, Marshall Islands, Mauritania, Micronesia, Moldova, Mongolia, Montenegro, Morocco, Mozambique, Namibia, Nepal, Niger, Oman, Qatar, Russia, Rwanda, Samoa, São Tomé & Príncipe, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Serbia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Togo, Tunisia, Uganda, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, Vanuatu, Vatican, Vietnam and Yemen.
I'd live out my days in Andorra, Dubai and Qatar, Beijing and Shanghai, Moscow and Saint Petersburg, and the Maldives.
[deleted] 8y ago
I honestly laughed out loud at its topical presence in this list of mostly "arseholes-of-the-earth"-type places.
I'm with /u/clackaroo, the Maldives & Russia are the way to go!
[deleted] 8y ago
[deleted]
Clackaroo 8y ago
I don't know much about the Marshall Islands, but if you're looking to avoid extradition, then it's probably best to make sure you're not spending your time in a place with a cozy relationship with the US, treaty or no. The US has shown itself more than willing to compromise small countries' national sovereignty, as with Kim Dotcom and New Zealand. God knows what remains unpublicized.
Squeezymypenisy 8y ago
There we go. Yea maldives is a nice place. Russia is one to consider with a nice amount of ex pats. And definitely china. Bosnia has nice beaches. Especially since they were so depopulated in the 90s.
[deleted] 8y ago
so, do you have another passport for one of those countries? After 5 or ten years when your home countries passport expires, you're fucked right? I'm going to up and split, and am looking into residency and citizenship requirements in SE Asia, Vietnam specifically.
Clackaroo 8y ago
Most countries will naturalize you within a period of ten years. Some countries will "adopt" you immediately should you become stateless. Whether or not it covers voluntary renunciation of previous citizenship probably depends on the country. SEA is corruption central; bribes can get you nearly anything there, though I'll bet you'll find that you won't want to live out your life there, so make sure you've got backup in place for when you want to return to civilization, i.e. a world-class city like the ones I mentioned.
If you're on the run from divorce-rape or something else you'd better have a damn good plan in place or you're going to get bitch-slapped by the long arm of the law.
[deleted]
Clackaroo 8y ago
You can get a years-long Russian visa with some documents and a couple hundred dollars, unless I'm missing something.
Pantek51 8y ago
Last time I saw a list of no extradition countries and if I remember correctly the only "ojay" ones were Tunisia, Algeria, Ukraine and a few others I can't remember.
Squeezymypenisy 8y ago
Those are all pretty dangerous. Maybe ukraine, but who knows how the war will go. Maldives is one too. And there are a few asian ones. China might not extradite.
Pantek51 8y ago
If you have some money living in Tunisia or Algeria is nearly like living in Spain/Portugal. I agree Tunisia sounds a bit more dangerous because of what happened recently
Squeezymypenisy 8y ago
Algeria i would be nervous about due to the groups active there.
Danedina 8y ago
Fantastic post. This is truly a valuable contribution.
It would be fascinating to hear her side of the story and compare the narratives. I think it's safe to assume that the version on Good Morning, America would more closely resemble that of the suffering single-mother whose child is being torn from her bosom by the misogynistic TRPer. Sob he got a court order tears flowing to change her name!
robocopsboner 8y ago
I still don't get why you didn't ask for an abortion. Girls need someone to make hard decisions for them, and you made it when you told her to start taking prenatal vitamins.
[deleted] 8y ago
Seriously dude what the hell!
SpeakerToRedditors 8y ago
Could you please explain the leasing. How does this protect you? Should a girlfriend living with you always be on the lease?
mightybe 8y ago
For a while there I couldn't even figure out what you wanted. I figure out that you hate the Mom and want 50/50 custody. Seems fair, too bad that you have to lie to the Mom, but that's how (you believe) our system works. Everyone lost in this case, I feel bad for the fact that your private life is a business affair.
cover20 8y ago
He obviously loves his daughter. Business affair? Well yes one does want to keep track of the money when she's trying to screw it out of you.
mightybe 8y ago
Nowhere did he say that she's trying to screw it out of him, doesn't seem like that's the case. He definitely gave it away to lawyers, but of his own free will. And yes, it's understandable why, but it doesn't change the fact that he lost on this and the Mom also lost. Only the lawyers really won here.
-TempestofChaos- 8y ago
How the fuck you maintained frame with that, I'll never know.
I have a hot temper in the face of stupid bullshit, and I'm still working on it. Mostly it helps rationalizing that people are insane.
1v1mebruh 8y ago
OP, I am thoroughly sorry to hear about what you have had to go through. Not to be that guy, but obviously wrapping up would've been a better route; but I digress.
Given the circumstances, you have played this out so far like a master and I applaud you for your strength and resolution. Seriously man, you're one tough (and smart) mofo. Knocking a bitch up would have broken me in half.
Thank you for sharing your experiences, this is all very useful knowledge for those who need it, and I hope you continue to stay as strong as you have been thus far.
[deleted] 8y ago
Most of this I would do the opposite and your result is the proof of how wrong you were.
I would of course congratulate her and offer assistance with the pregnancy, but the moment she acted like a cunt I would cease my assistance. To continue to be kind and conciliatory towards someone who is being a cunt merely encourages that behavior.
After I ceased contact I would wait until the child was born and then order a paternity test. While I would prepare for this by saving money and learning about the court system and procedures I wouldn't worry about anything else because she would already be out of my life.
This provides the unique benefit of not giving her any ammunition to use against me or figuring out any leverage to use against me later on.
So long as there were emails and other exchanges such as letters, etc. then any rape claim will fall flat. Beyond that, so long as she behaves civilly I'm willing to assist her. Any money that I give her (if I give her any money) will be recorded and if possible presented as a loan. That way if the kid turns out to be mine then I can demand that money back later in court.
I just cannot see the logic in enabling a vicious cunt like this. You've empowered her by giving her whatever she wanted. You've destroyed your health and sanity by living with her. You've increased your risk of further accusations by cohabitation with her.
All of this AFTER you realized she was a controlling abusive bitch.
I cannot recommend that to anyone and I sure wouldn't submit to it myself.
I agree that you shouldn't argue with her. There's no profit margin in attacking or criticizing a woman. Best to let a lawyer do the talking. But I wouldn't agree with everything she says either. If you both cannot agree then a man's primary tool of leverage is to walk away. Women hate that. Why? Because if you aren't there then she can't manipulate you. If you are never there then it's a lot harder to claim you were and that you hit her or raped her or whatever.
Instead, you went full Beta and took her abuse for 9 months and counting. If I can't respect that then I know no woman would either. Women hate weakness and by giving in to her every demand you made her hate you even more.
Even though you say just as much you still lived with this woman knowing she was trying to fuck you over.
In my view if you want a woman to like or respect you then you don't give her everything she wants. You sure the fuck don't move in with her just because you think she has more power than you.
She had no power over you personally until you gave in to her demands. She did have a right to seek money from you if you turned out to be the father, but had you not spoken to her for 9 months and then gone into court and said that you were absent because she was abusive towards you and you were afraid for your safety (which is actually true) then how could they denounce that action?
As for the child support. If I wanted to fuck her on the support I would just quit my job and get a piddly minimum wage job. When the court assigned support they could do it at a minimum wage rate.
Then I'd move out of state and get a better job and not tell anyone about it.
As for visitation I'd want to be a father in my child's life. However, if she's going to be a cunt I'd simply tell the court that it's not healthy for you or the child to be in that child's life so long as the mother is encouraged and empowered by the court to be abusive and manipulative and I would tell them I want no visitation so long as my right to safety and to be an equal parent is not recognized or respected.
Then walk away.
Addendum: Women love men conditionally. Their love is more like adoration than the way men love.
When you cave and give in to everything she wants. When you don't stand up for yourself and let her push you around and abuse you. All you are doing is making her lose respect for you.
Once you've lost her respect she will always hate you and work against you. She won't want you in her life or her kid's life.
But if you don't put up with it. If you take a stand and kick her out of your life for being an ass then even if she's mad at you she will at least respect you and know that you aren't going to take whatever shit sandwich she tries to serve you whenever she wants to serve it up.
This is a war of wills. You will gave in the moment she said she was pregnant. That's as beta as you can get.
Had you done it right she should have been begging you to be in the kids life and at that point you could have demanded shared custody with no support.
ShitSandwichOfficial 8y ago
Glad I have your vote in 2016!
RedSugarPill 8y ago
This comment needs more recognition. It's great that OP did this heroic deed and shared, but I think you're right: There is always a way to improve the strategy, and you've pointed out some possible options. This is an empirical question, and unfortunately we're going to need more data :/
[deleted] 8y ago
very easy to judge an operation in an armchair isn't it
go nut in one, report your progress
Invalidity 8y ago
If a woman had any respect for a man, she wouldn't be trying to dominate him by submission through a pregnancy.
In OP's case, he was pre-approved as a beta bucks, and she was determined to extort money from him. There is nothing else for him to do at this point other than to play the game and mitigate the damage dealt to him.
Had she respected him, she would have fucked him for his seed and left it at that. When a guy is actively interacting with a girl, he has already been labeled well in advance of receiving any benefits from the relationship (ex. orbiter, fuck buddy, etc.). Only time void of interaction may change a woman's opinion of a man.
[deleted] 8y ago
"Only time void of interaction may change a woman's opinion of a man."
Which is why I said he should have severed all contact after she proved to be controlling and manipulative.
The people who think he's great are wrong. I'm sure he's a nice person, but he did it wrong and he paid the price. It's only through good luck and a lot of work (and the mother's unabashed viciousness) that he's in such a good position at this point.
I still think he could have gotten here earlier with less effort and risk. In fact, I think if he completely refused to allow her to control him she would have tried to force him to take shared custody which sounds like what he wanted all along.
rp_divorced 8y ago
While your comment sounds good, the practicality (in the US at least) is completely wrong.
The only way to avoid child support is if the mother truly does not want support from you and never goes to the government for support or assistance.
If mom needs welfare, the government will come find you even if the mother doesn't ask them to. If mom does want support, a judge will track you down and order you to pay and won't let you have a minute with the child until you start fighting for it. And then you're locked into a battle where you're starting in a massive hole by not being part of the child's life prior to the fight.
The bottom line is that she's going to get paid whether she's a vicious cunt or not and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.
[deleted] 8y ago
I never said you could get out of paying support. I said that you could greatly reduce the child support you pay by quitting your job and working part time for a while until the child support amount is set.
Once it is set you leave the state and find a new job and don't communicate with the mother. She's going to find it very difficult to even determine if you make more money and even harder to get the state to go after you in another state so long as you are paying the amount you owe.
They will say all kinds of nasty stuff about you so claiming I'm not active in the child's life will be an issue regardless of how involved I am. In fact, it can be twisted around to say I'm too involved in my child's life and this is controlling.
You are damned if you do and damned if you don't. It's a lot better to come to court and say you tried to be involved but the mother was abusive towards you and you felt it was better for her health (since she was pregnant) that you not be around.
rp_divorced 8y ago
Judges see these games ALL the time. They will impute your income to previous levels and then you'll be paying support based on a salary you no longer make. Lord forbid you then can't get a job at your previous level of income.
I disagree. States get money from the federal government for the amount of child support they collect. They have a direct incentive to find you. If the mom wants to know what you make, all she has to do is file with the courts and have you served. The very first thing that will be required will be your financial affidavit which includes your most recent few months of pay stubs. If you don't provide it or fib, you can enjoy your contempt charge in jail.
from http://www.ncsl.org/research/human-services/child-support-adminstration.aspx
[deleted] 8y ago
You make it sound like it's easy for her to keep tabs on you. It isn't.
She has to get a lawyer to file the request to review your income. In order to do that she needs some kind of probable cause to poke into your affairs. Either way, it's not easy for states to come after you once you've left the state. States still do not share information.
That said, there are lots of reasons to quit your job. For instance, if you get hurt and can't work and have a doctor's note then what is the judge going to do?
I drive a truck. If I can't drive a truck then there is no way a judge can expect me to make 50k+ a year. That's an entire industry closed to me if I get hurt.
Obviously you can't just show up in court and say you are lazy and don't work. But if you have documentation then the judge must accept that.
Not everything is doom and gloom. You have to know the system and be willing to subvert it for your benefit.
Don't get me wrong. If I had a kid I'd be more than happy to do my part, and by "my part" I mean equal shared custody with not transfer of wealth from me to the baby momma.
powder1 8y ago
This guy pretty much nailed it on the head. The second you mess up and get a crazy preggo you have to prepare yourself. Mentally and financially. If you think it will never happen to you, do not lower your guard or else it will. Be smart. Wrap it up.
[deleted] 8y ago
If you don't want kids and you never want to be in this situation, just get a vasectomy!
[deleted] 8y ago
We really need to sidebar this
Uploaded_by_iLurk 8y ago
I really need to type up my custody battle some day. Just some quick advice, even if you win, don't think for a second that it's over. In face the following 3 months were probably worse because the crazy cunt really had nothing left to lose.
Red_August 8y ago
The state power at the disposal of a woman's fee-fees is positively one of the scariest horrors on earth. This isn't very different than trying to survive power-tripping 12-year-olds with submachine guns in some central african republic.
[deleted]
rp_divorced 8y ago
Only if you let it be fucked. You have the choice to live a great life despite your mistakes and loss of income. It's all in how you handle yourself.
cover20 8y ago
In the old days the pregnancy would have meant you were married, you would live together and probably have more kids together, and put up with each other's imperfections just like every married couple has to do.
Now because of her piggishness you manage to have 50/50 custody, which was the best you could possibly do. But it's certainly worse for the daughter and leaves both your lives permanently complicated.
Women's lib FTW :/
[deleted] 8y ago
This is amazing advice, if you're morally opposed to abortion or if it becomes clear that it isn't an option. However, the first line of defense (aside from wrapping your tool) should be an abortion. This is a stranger. Most likely some girl you met at a bar, coffee shop, bus, etc... Having a child you haven't prepared for with a woman that you don't know is irresponsible parenting at best. At absolute worst it will kill your social life, finances, and reputation all for a kid who will grow up trained to think you're a scumbag.
Telling her to start taking pre-natal pills is conditioning her to thinking she's going to be having the baby. It gets her in a protective, motherly mode. Why would you want to do that? First step, tell her you both need to talk about it. This is your life, and regardless of what the law says, that thing is half yours. Forget white knight bullshit about it being her choice. Get her to think of it as making the decision together. Get her to see it as making the best choice for her future children. She can have several kids with multiple fathers with various levels of involvement, or she can do what's best for her kids and have several kids in a stable situation with a man.
Remember, appeal to her emotions. Most importantly, keep calm and keep her calm. The overriding emotion is for her to keep it, so keep emotions as low as possible. It's her natural instinct. Make her feel comfortable, and appeal to the side of her that believes women should have control of when and how she has children. If you were having unprotected sex with her without knowing her very well, chances are she's a "progressive" woman.
Seriously, I think OP has gone through some shit, and maybe abortion was absolutely not an option and he handled it the best he could, but for the majority of men living in the progressive western world, abortion is the first move after an unwanted pregnancy with a woman you don't know.
[deleted] 8y ago
"Regardless of what anyone says, society and everyone WILL look down on both you as a single mother. It would be a terrible life for the kid as well. But in the future you can do it when you're absolutely ready"
You know plant the idea that it will kill her social standing, but it will HELP it if she does it at a better time.
WolfeBane84 8y ago
Or, instead of all this.
Vasectomy.
agmatine 8y ago
Unfortunately, until reliable, reversible contraceptives become available for men (e.g. Vasalgel), this is the only fool-proof solution.
LionLegacy 8y ago
It sounds like you're swimming in a pool of piss.
This woman is clearly a psychotic bitch, why does anyone have to put up with dogshit like her at all?
Im quickly coming to the sentiment that women are just not fucking worth it
[deleted] 8y ago
You're a hero.
One question: why did you insist on the paternity test (I'm assuming it's because you wanted to be a parent to your child more than you wanted to avoid child support)?
Ifuckinglovepron 8y ago
A random slut calls you pregnant and your first instinct isn't to get a paternity test!?
yukinara 8y ago
no he isn't. He just another dumb ass who knocked up a girl and have to deal with the consequence because if he didn't, the law would come after his ass. Everything he did is merely to savage his pathetic life.
A true smart guy would stay sober and not creampie a random stranger. Even if the girl doesn't get pregnant, she can still carry STD
alphbux 8y ago
A true true smart guy would get a vasectomy, condoms can fail.
The response to the situation he found himself in is very valuable. In fact it's going to expedite my vasectomy as well as make me read the 48 laws of power.
Also: https://archive.is/tHxMS/
[deleted] 8y ago
Because it should be done anyway with every child claimed to be yours regardless of your relationship with the mother.
[deleted] 8y ago
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[deleted] 8y ago
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NO_LAH_WHERE_GOT 8y ago
Because he doesn't want to refer to her as his partner, girlfriend, etc, etc.
[deleted] 8y ago
Because they're no longer together and he does not consider her a girlfriend or wife.
[deleted] 8y ago
But wouldn't this absolve you of any responsibility for paying child support?
Brave_Horatius 8y ago
He's playing the long game and wants to be part of the child's life. He wasn't going to get that without paternity proven and support paid
evoblade 8y ago
If she wants child support a paternity test is happening. If you refuse at that point it's basically like refusing breathalyzer, you're classified as guilty (or in this case the father). If you can find out early you are not the dad, then you get to skip a ton of legal fees.
P.S. I might be full of crap, but that's how I understand it.
ScoundrelHero 8y ago
Until she decided to declare you the father. I heard a story about a coworker where I work who found out he was the father of a 16 year old child who needed money for college. Back child support is from the moment you are aware that you have a child. Just get it out of the way.
But I guess I should also say that I have always wanted to have a child. So to me it was a no brainer.
verify_account 8y ago
Did your lawyer tell you that or did you read it on the internet?
[deleted]
marplaneit 8y ago
Wasn't Abortion an option? I would have try hard as fuck to make it happen. A friend crashed his car with the woman inside, on the country side. "He lost the control, and crashed against a tree", help was at least 30 minutes away, due to stress she lost the baby, guy had some médium injuries, but he didn't have to take this shit.
I'm sorry for you OP. I hope it gets better.
[deleted] 8y ago
Abortion, done through a good organization in a medically safe environment, is a perfectly legitimate procedure. I'm not opposed to convincing her that abortion is the best option. I'm not even opposed to being pushy about it, since you're going to suffer like crazy otherwise, but this is fucked up.
The_Turbinator 8y ago
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Unpopular_But_Right 8y ago
http://nypost.com/2015/03/12/man-tricked-ex-into-miscarriage-with-abortion-pill-smoothie/
HS-Thompson 8y ago
Apparently the maximum sentence in that instance was 7 years.
That's eleven years of savings right there.
50pluspiller 8y ago
7 years of getting fucked in the ass by Bubba.
EVILEMU 8y ago
what the fuck are you suggesting?
[deleted]
RedBigMan 8y ago
He's suggesting the Hail Mary. Basically convince her you want a future with her and that she should have an abortion now so you can have a planned kid later on or whatever... basically you try to get her to abort by lying through your teeth that you are going to be there with her then dump her ass after.
EVILEMU 8y ago
Are you reading the same comment that I did? He said his friend intentionally crashed his car into a tree to cause a miscarriage.
RedBigMan 8y ago
Yeah I misread it. I thought he was talking about the guys comment before. Anyway if you want her to have an abortion the hail mary is a good way to go.
marplaneit 8y ago
yes I said that... Honestly I prefer to wrap myself.
nofaprecommender 8y ago
That he should offer her a ride when she is advanced into her pregnancy and crash his car in such a way that only the woman and/or the fetus are killed while sustaining minimal injuries himself. You know, what any right-thinking, rational adult man would do in this situation.
marplaneit 8y ago
That's what my friend did. I prefer to wrap myself, and avoid different problems besides pregnancy in between
nofaprecommender 8y ago
Just a matter of preferences, then.
[deleted] 8y ago
[deleted]
nofaprecommender 8y ago
Thanks for the thought, but I'd rather get downvoted by those idiots than ruin the flavor of a good line.
Rob_Dead 8y ago
Thank fuck there's someone else in the world who thinks that adding /s is the lowest ebb of internet platitutes.
NeoreactionSafe 8y ago
.
Unprotected sex with strangers... yeah baby yeah... that's groovy.
Austin Powers
(who could have imagined this would turn out badly?)
.
stemgang 8y ago
Holy shit excellent write-up. But it is devastating to see that is the best a man can hope for, in a child custody case against a dishonest woman.
You call it winning, and you have your daughter to live for, I suppose. As for myself, I would rather slit my throat than live enslaved to, and at the mercy of someone so evil (meaning your ex, not the daughter).
TheOneWhoKnoxs 8y ago
Sidebar quality material. Thank you.
Klldarkness 8y ago
Absolutely beautiful, and probably the best post I've seen on here. It gives hope to a lot of guys in your same situation. This is side bar material, if I've ever seen it.
Congratulations to you, man. I hope you take it all the way, and land full custody some day.
Stay strong, and keep thinking ahead.
Luce_Bree 8y ago
I have no plans on ever getting into this situation, but I have to add to the chorus of cheers. What a clear, articulate, and informative post. Simply incredible.
TheRealMewt 8y ago
This should be in the sidebar.
Think about the people who come here to finally get laid only to have the script flipped on them with their girl telling them that they're now expecting. Think about the guys who swallowed the pill because their perfect little unicorn turned out to be a donkey with a snowcone on its face and cleaned their bank account out with legal fees, alimony, child support, and any other ways a man could waste his hard earned cash on a woman.
This could prevent a lot of undue suffering.
RedBigMan 8y ago
This mental image made my lol.
Newdist2 8y ago
That's not snow in the snowcone, either.
Wet and white, but a bit too sticky to be snow.
Teflon_wulfie 8y ago
Fascinating. Thanks for sharing.
aazav 8y ago
When you type "Ballat of the Shit Test", what is a "Ballat"?
penguin_says_slide 8y ago
This was simply a masterpiece! Thank you for taking the time to write it. I hope to GOD it doesn't ever happen to me and if anything it shows how important is to ALWAYS put on condoms.
doublereignbeau 8y ago
You are a hero, truly. Identifying weak points in the system is the only way we will ever survive these death traps and I applaud you for this map.
Unfiltered_Soul 8y ago
Zen master patience and strategy, just like you said "Just imagine you're playing chess".
JollyO 8y ago
I just started 48v laws of power. Only up to v rule 4 but great read so far
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MrProblematicMan 8y ago
He's making the best of a terrible situation but I agree that he shouldn't have gotten into that situation in the first place.
Is fucking strangers really worth it at all?
Someone else in this thread suggested giving out burner numbers and a fake name and I think that's a complete cop-out as well, don't do the crime (ten seconds) if you can't do the time.
RedPillAnonymous 8y ago
If you are anti hook up culture you're in the wrong place.
UrsusG 8y ago
I think he's pro common sense and condoms, not anti hook up.
MrProblematicMan 8y ago
If you are pro hookup culture you are buying into crazy bullshit like this unless you have a vasectomy. I'm not against hookups except for pregnancy. If you do that you HAD BETTER not get the woman pregnant because then you are in for a world of shit as this demonstrates.
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MrProblematicMan 8y ago
You have to admit though his reaction is about the best thing one could hope for under such circumstances.
Remember that a lot of people reading this sub are young and may not have understood this stuff as deeply as you have.
48 Laws SHOULD be a renowned book.
[deleted] 8y ago
Wow, you're a fucking faggot. Like seriously, you added no value to this thread yet every word you spoke in your post sounded like you were muffled by cock in your mouth.
OP acknowledged he fucked up early by knocking a random up. As someone with kids from a failed marriage I echo a lot of his recommendations.
Basically, go kill yourself because you're a worthless toxic fuck.
[deleted] 8y ago
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[deleted] 8y ago
You are among men, but we don't count your teenage angst amongst our number, faggot.
Also, come back when you crack 200k without having to suck cock for cash.
Until then, my advice to kill yourself stands. You're weak and irrelevant. Neither men nor women need you.
[deleted] 8y ago
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[deleted] 8y ago
130m2 - do houses even come that small. Nice try playing in the big leagues but kill yourself. PR is Bullshit and populated by women and faggots. But talk about street fighter some more, neck beard.
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[deleted] 8y ago
Are you actually trying to compare your limited pathetic experiences in Russia's next annexation as actually having relevance in the civilised world? Your shithole houses in your shithole country mean nothing, to no-one ever.
I glossed over the rest of you post because I'll let the community do the down voting for me. But seriously, kill yourself. Small fish, even smaller pond.
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[deleted] 8y ago
I'm not in the US, peasant. And if you look 'Turkey' up in the 2015 dictionary it's defined as 'A failed state'
Google Australia, our minimum wage, our GDP, our social and religious freedoms and then apologise for being born poor, lived parochial and thinking you have something to offer in a conversation about modern societies. Peasant.
insidious_sedition 8y ago
why would you have to pay child support if you get 50/50 custody?
Betamax69 8y ago
Even in a 50/50 custody agreement one parent is declared the placement parent. I was declared the school placement parent and awarded child support to the tune of 110$ a week. That has been reduced over the years to only 70$ a week.
SnickeringBear 8y ago
Document, document, document, and document some more. Why? because maintaining a daily diary of what you observe won't be directly admissible in court, but you can "refer back to my notes" which IS admissible in court. Also, GAL's tend to take daily documentation seriously because they know you are serious.
Don't let your guard down now, it is NOT over. You will be lulled into a false sense of security while she waits like a piranha. Take precautions by making frequent family visits so your mother and father can observe what is going on, overnight visits are best. Make sure everyone who sees you in a father role sees you as a guy who really wants what is best for your kid(s). Why? Mine waited until I had unsupervised visitation for 3 months and had taken the kids on a vacation trip, then she sprung it on me (again) that I was abusing the kids and had done so on the vacation. If I had not had abundant documentation in the form of daily notes, I would have been investigated until the end of time by a court system motivated by an "abundance of caution" mentality.
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favours_of_the_moon 8y ago
This is all true, but the system still needs to be changed.
thenarrrowpath 8y ago
Good post. Can you at all pin point the mistake on your part? Did the condom break or what exactly happened/do you think happened?
IamGale 8y ago
Amazing story, great job keeping cool and having such a great strategy.
MightyTaint 8y ago
Good post OP. Keep fighting the good fight. You are saving your daughter from growing up to be a completely devoid of character and morals woman like her mother.
rockumsockumrobots 8y ago
I'm a single guy in my early 20's and I love teaching. I want a family some day with a loving mother. The legal system is shit though.
Anyone joined CASA as a volunteer? Would that be a good way to be a non-biased advocate that didn't skew facts for women? I'm sure many of the social workers are old damaged cat ladies. It's a drop in the pan, but who knows, I might be able to do a lot of good work.
Thoughts on this OP?