So, last night I am out of town until quite late and knew that my girlfriend would be going to a bar with some of her friends. We got home at similar times and, as I normally do, I greeted her by sliding my hand over her butt. I noticed pretty quickly that she was not wearing underwear beneath her skirt. When I quizzed her on why she said that it was "to prevent bad lines from appearing on the skirt". Surely I would have to be a total idiot to believe her right? The classic reason for girls to not wear underwear to bars is to either "get in the mood" and arouse themselves for flirting or to straight-up make it easier for cheap, casual sex. She said this was a stupid thing to think and that people would just push their underwear to the side or down if they wanted to do that.
This morning I realised that it's awful even if she was doing it to stop lines appearing on her skirt. I mean, why is it so important that her pussy and butt areas look great for all the drunk dudes at the bar? The more I think about it the more worked up I get. What do you guys think?
Edit 1: Thanks everyone for your comments. The main thing I'm getting is that yes, I already know what I need to do and that it also doesn't really matter if she actually fucked anyone else. This whole issue has actually made me step back from her, in an emotional sense, quite naturally. I think that's a good sign. I am not worried to lose a woman who acts like this even if she is still "faithful". Here's what I am going to do:
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I am going to hit the gym HARD. Today.
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I am going to go out this weekend with my mates. I will not inform her of my plans and I will have no regard for what I do and how long it takes to do it.
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I will continue to fuck her but the emotional, and financial, investment ends now. As a side note, I am quietly hoping to parlay this into getting her to do some of the things she won't do for me sexually at the moment - anal, cumming onto her face, FFM threesome etc.
- I'm a valuable man, and it is a seller's market. She has posted a poor bid and now must wait for others to have their turn.
[deleted] 11y ago
She didn't wear underwear so she could look better to other guys?
Talk about disrespectful.
[deleted] 11y ago
They mostly look good for their friends and other chicks, not guys. Unless they're trying to get laid.
[deleted] 11y ago
Or so the hamsters say. When I go out with the guys I dress nice not because I want to look good to them. I want to look better than them.
[deleted] 11y ago
come on man, thats some male hamstering, you know better than that.
[deleted] 11y ago
what i'm saying is they do it for attention
Wheat-Thins 11y ago
I know they say that, I dont buy it for a second. Not wearing underwear to look good for her presumably straight friends? Come on now.
phil_mcrevis 11y ago
I think he means they compete for attention. Not necessarily looking good for the guys in order to go through with something but just trying to outdo the other girls. Girls hate when another girl looks better or is more lusted after.
Granted that's still fucked up. I've had this argument with girlfriends so many times. At least now I realize how fucking stupid it is to try to get them to admit it or discuss it in a rational manner. Much less have the least bit of sympathy for their SO.
Fucking bitches. It's sad that the best thing for even the best man is to not give a shit about a woman enough for it to affect him.
[deleted] 11y ago
Exactly what i meant, she's competing with her friends.
KyfhoMyoba 11y ago
^THIS^THIS^THIS^. I get so tired of hearing women say that they don't dress for men, they dress for other women. BULLSHIT!!! They dress for (against, really) the other women that are also COMPETING for the men.
redpillschool Admin 11y ago
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megatron37 11y ago
You've got it. If women dressed up for each other as they claim, they'd put on all their dresses and makeup for a night staying in with each other.
[deleted] 11y ago
Personally I only date women with class.
TheD_ 11y ago
Your gf is hot when she has more male friends than you do.
IWantWhatsReal 11y ago
Dude. She cheated on you. They fucked somewhere and she left/forgot her underwear.
EVEN IF SHE DIDN'T, (which I'm almost sure she did), would you want to keep dating a girl who would go without underwear, in a skirt, to dance with random strangers?
[deleted] 11y ago
best scenario, she has low self esteem and wants validation from the other guys at the bar.
worst scenario, she's a cheater..
take your pick...
Redditresss 11y ago
Visible panty lines + Girls dress for other girls = Stop overreacting
cascadecombo 11y ago
You made a mistake by even asking, you've been dating the girl for long enough to have had her go out to a bar while you were in town correct? Is commando the S.O.P. for her when she goes out with the girls?
Regardless if she did or didn't though, 99% sure chances are if she did remove them / have other motives for going out (if she went to the bar at all) she would feed you a bold face lie if she felt the outcome would affect her negatively.
On a side note tho, I do know some bars that have girls remove their underwear and hang them on the ceiling, while not cheating on their boyfriends after removing their clothes. However, the majority who do that are out looking for some, and well they usually get it.
[deleted] 11y ago
You already know the answer....
TVTestPattern 11y ago
Does she own a g-string?
If so, they eliminate pantylines.
Therefore...
[deleted] 11y ago
You should really know if she normally wears underwear with skirts. If she doesn't maybe give her a pass since you can't prove anything. If she usually wears underwear there's only one question to ask and that is Why haven't you dumped her yet?
pralinematchbox 11y ago
Marilyn Monroe
dray121212 11y ago
Sorry bro this relationship is dead....you can never view her in a positive light now
However, start fuckin around and experimenting with her to see what you can learn..just for kicks, maybe a month or two, before you get rid of her
run some dread game, implement to RP tactics, and report back...hit gym extra hard, spend more time with your friends etc...basically emotionally detach yourself from this woman if you have not already
FaithfulJinn 11y ago
Why even make this topic when you already answered your own question?
OKJaded 11y ago
What does she usually wear for underwear? Does she own thongs? The girls I've dated that didn't wear underwear 99% of the time still wore them when they put on a skirt/dress.
Here are the two most important questions? Have you seen her not wear underwear before?
Have you seen her in that skirt before? Was it with underwear?
The only way this is remotely acceptable is if you've seen her do it before.
cheepcheepchickntalk 11y ago
The most worrying part about it was that I have seen her wear thongs before. I can't remember about that skirt specifically but I would be surprised - it was definitely a new thing her not wearing underwear.
SkorchZang 11y ago
Congratulate her, she's now strictly your non-exclusive fuckbuddy, and tell her you can meet every other Saturday at the bar with no underwear.
FLFTW16 11y ago
Dump her.
dickie_smalls 11y ago
She woulda worn a thong if anything; from now on she should be nothing to you but a fuck when you feel like it
Haraklus 11y ago
It doesn't matter. If what she says is true, frankly, she isn't LTR material.
sinalpha 11y ago
LOLWUT
She got fucked.
ConfidenceMatters 11y ago
OP has a high chance of being a fag troll but I'm cracking up at the people ''requiring more infor/evidence" to draw the most obvious conclusion in the world.
Even bigger lulz at the silly ignoramuses that think women go out to social gatherings, albeit in a relationship already or otherwise, without the intention of subconsciously (and in lots of cases consciously) to attract alpha male dick.
You think she went out dolled up just for her friends? You Think she left her panties at home just to look good for her friends?
Fuck no. She's definitely slutty and no good for a long term relationship. Demote her to plate immediately OP, if real.
shitaintworthit 11y ago
Drop her, wtf are you doing asking us for advice?
I think you're hoping for some magical solution from us so that you can put her in her place again, you should consider the possibility that you have oneitis for her, clinging to her in an unhealthy way.
puaSenator 11y ago
I'm going to go against the popular opinion here and recommend you breath on it a bit before getting too emotional and losing frame.
She shouldn't be leaving her underwear at home simply because she wants to look better in her skirt. However, at the same time, that's just women, they are vain and like to look good -- even to guys she has no plans on fucking.
Many girls go out every night w/o underwear for the very reason she mentions. But at the same time it doesn't mean she's completely off the hook, and being a little suspicious is warranted. I can tell you right now that my ex NEVER wore underwear. She just hated them, and I didn't mind. I also understood when she was going out when I wasn't around she likely wasn't going to be wearing them. It doesn't mean she had bad intentions, it just means she didn't want them.
I think you just need to determine the type of girl she is and see if this is normal or not. Is this the first time you've ever caught w/o underwear in a skirt? Okay, be a little more suspicious. Does she frequently go out to bars with you w/o underwear? Okay, be a little less suspicious.
I know around here guys often, myself included, like to say AWALT and NEVER trust her. But most of that is coming from setting frame. There are obviously going to be exceptions to the general rules. And when it comes to someone you're seriously dating, I'm not going to recommend, like many around here, to just next her and kick her to the curb without looking into the context.
bsutansalt 11y ago
The first question in my mind is why is she getting all dolled up to go out without him in the first place? IMO it's inappropriate to go out to bars & clubs trolling for attention (and potential hookups) from the opposite sex when you're already in a relationship.
Going out together with friends with SO in tow is one thing, as are the once in a blue moon girls' night, but if she's out every week or so without him then she's not relationship material as far as I'm concerned. Chalk it up to trying to make a ho (or a party girl) into a housewife.
puaSenator 11y ago
But women are ALWAYS going to go places looking for sexual validation. Women are creatures designed for beauty. It's in their nature to go out and seek to be praised as a sexual being. That's why we have celebrities who just want to be famous and beautiful and loved by all.
A women going out and hoping people validate her existence as a high level sexual object isn't a bad thing. It's in their nature. If this wasn't the case, she'd just wear genes and your old Tshirt when she goes out with minimal makeup. But that's never the case, women are always trying to look great when they go out, to let others know their sexual potential. The wear skirts because it helps show off their legs and curves, displaying the value of their body. They wear makeup that accentuates youth and mild arousal to show their reproductive potential.
I wouldn't call it innapropriate for a woman just being a woman. The same way I don't think it's innapropriate for you, as a guy, to go out and use clothing that eccentuates your status as a man. Often this is done through nice clothes and an expensive watch to show your money, or maybe a well fitted suit to show your musculear physic, not forgetting your college ring to show you have an MBA from a top level university?
Both genders do this. It's totally fine. The only problem is when she is dressed up like a whore intentionally begging for sex, rather than showing her high physical value.
cheepcheepchickntalk 11y ago
She doesn't go out every week but it's not a rare thing. She is ALWAYS more dressed up to go out without me than she will ever be for me. I think that realisation answers a lot of my questions. This is the first time the underwear has been missing though so either she's at the bottom of the slippery slope rolling around in the mud with a bunch of random dudes or she's still sliding. Fuck it I think.
alexkitsune 11y ago
I think he's just going a big freakout over probably nothing. If OP is secure in the relationship then he wouldn't be concerned about her being a ho-bag. This post just screams irrational fears/feels to me.
[deleted] 11y ago
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[deleted] 11y ago
I wish people would say they're men or women again.
[deleted] 11y ago
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[deleted] 11y ago
Is it really that hard to wear jeans?
binrobinro 11y ago
I totally agree with you.
[deleted] 11y ago
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cascadecombo 11y ago
If your views are solid and make good points and are willing to listen to someone contest them without getting upset about that then it doesn't matter if you are a female or not, it's actually better if you keep that information to yourself.
kingnutter 11y ago
Especially when talking about your visible panty line when wearing a dress.
binrobinro 11y ago
I dated a girl who never wore underwear, for those exact same reasons. She hated the visible panty lines. I don't think she wore them even once in the 7 years we dated. I just thought it was wonderful.
Hughtub 11y ago
Why would you feel gross? Guys enjoy seeing females in their underwear. I guarantee not 1 in 100 cisgender straight guys sees panty lines and thinks "ewww".
[deleted] 11y ago
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Toronomi 11y ago
Doesnt wearing no underwear make you feel unsafe, too? Anyone can imagine you naked or in underwear regardless of clothing, it's imagination after all. Removing clothing to feel more covered seems backward to me.
[deleted] 11y ago
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ButterMyBiscuit 11y ago
I know this post is old, but to answer your question: by the time I notice your panty lines, I've already imagined you naked.
Toronomi 11y ago
Sorry if it came off as claiming you do one way or the other - I meant it in a general way, as choosing the lesser evil.
As for the lines being noticeable to men, i can't honestly tell. I'm still relatively new here, mostly analysing my current/past behaviour and discussions here - as such, i'm not exactly going out much (yet?). It is a personal matter, though - some men don't notice finer details like that, and those that notice might see it as unattractive or the exact opposite.
Seems in light of what you brought up, OP should look into buying the special "hidden" underwear. If she opposes wearing that instead of nothing, i guess it means she's out for sex rather than looks.
Hughtub 11y ago
I'm imagining you sitting there as you're typing, wearing nothing but a thong.
Don't you realize that if there's no panty line, that makes guys think "wow this girl isn't wearing any panties!"
[deleted] 11y ago
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Hughtub 11y ago
I like them. It reminds me of yet another difference between the sexes. I personally enjoy looking at a woman's behind, and the panty lines accentuate those curves. Basically, nothing a woman can do aside from wearing a burqa or being over 150lbs can prevent males from looking at their shape in a positive manner.
50-cal 11y ago
Cheating. NEXT!
[deleted] 11y ago
Whatever is the real truth, what you are being told is a lie to quiet some kind of dissonance in her mind over some behavior she has to justify to live with herself.
vpwnz 11y ago
This guy knows how to write a quality post.
cheepcheepchickntalk 11y ago
This is how I feel. She may not have necessarily fucked anyone that night but the whole mindset doesn't really work with the faithfulness or dedication she claims to have for me.
domesticatedvixen 11y ago
I do not know anything about the situation, but just offering a lady's perspective.
My Grandmother often advised me to go without underwear, even as a child, particularly when wearing pantyhose. For her generation, showing underwear just wasn't okay, so you didn't do it. Of course, there are a number of alternatives, but I have employed a number of techniques to avoid showing a panty line or a bra strap (even foregoing the undergarment in question). As long as the skirt is of an appropriate length, and nobody is any the wiser, I think it is much classier to not wear an undergarment than to have it show.
admirals_go_nuts 11y ago
I'm not comfortable dating girls like that
trplurker 11y ago
Way to many people without experience trying to give advice here.
Panty lines are actually a think for girls, we don't think about it as guys but girls are always obsessing over shit like that. Need more background info on the relationship, like how long have you been dating and has she thrown up any red flags before? Does she talk trash about you around friends or does she religiously defend you if someone's trash talking when your not around? Does she do small things to make you happy and earn your attention or does she bitch and moan about shit you don't do?
It's very important to know the situation of the relationship when dealing with something this vague.
cascadecombo 11y ago
yeah, this is pretty important and i mentioned it too, is this normal? does she usually go commando?
panzergling 11y ago
Fashion is a status among women--it happens between men too, but on a much more open level. While men compete through watches and inner cuff embroidery, women compete through panty lines and the length of their wingtipped eyeliner.
It is possible she was just being conscientious of it. It is possible she cheated. It is possible you're a whiny bitch. It is possible you're some kind of slut Ouija board who can see right through her mind games.
The question you should be asking is: who gives a fuck?
You're not in a relationship to catch her cheating on you. If you are, I feel sorry for you.
[deleted] 11y ago
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cray-cray-cray 11y ago
I logged in just to upvote you. I know girls who NEVER wear underwear, including with skirts, etc. I know others who sometimes do, sometimes don't.
riverraider69 11y ago
I was really really afraid the top comment would be "dump the beatch". Lately it seems like the comments in a thread depend a lot more on the hivemind of the specific subreddit then on the facts of the post. And the default in almost any relationship thread is "dump her".
"Dump her" is an easy and "feel good" thing to say (and it might often be the right advice) but it often ignores two simple facts:
OP is not a super PUA able to get a new girl by snapping his fingers. There is a real effort involved.
[deleted] 11y ago
Instead of asking the Internet in what misogynistic way you could vent your frustration, you could just stop being a pussy and ask her directly about it. Don't accept any bullshit answer. Tell her you disapprove of her going out without underwear when you're not with her. She can wear a thong if she wants to avoid lines, it's not like tiny women's underwear is a new concept.
If she isn't willing to make a reasonable compromise like that (and wearing underwear in public is, regardless of what philosophy you adhere to, quite reasonable).
She has a point, however. If she's going to bang someone in a bathroom then pulling underwear out from under her skirt isn't going to be the dealbreaker for either party involved.
RedPillDad 11y ago
She gave them away as a souvenir to the dude that smashed her...
Idrinkjdbythegallon 11y ago
I was waiting for this...
cheepcheepchickntalk 11y ago
This thought has been going through my mind a lot.
[deleted] 11y ago
Women aren't out there giving away $12 panties to guys they fucked in a bar. Those things are expensive and she's not going to want to give it away.
Idrinkjdbythegallon 11y ago
What? They get chucked aside and they find it embarrassing to hunt for them so they just throw their jeans or skirt on and leave
netwalker11 11y ago
Can confirm.
lolyzor 11y ago
haha nice observation :D
Prattler26 11y ago
Eject eject! Disconnect emotionally ASAP.
lightfire409 11y ago
I don't know what the hell you hope to accomplish by posting here. You already know what we're all going to unanimously say. Even your own instinct are telling you its bullshit and to tell her to fuck off. So. Do. That.
[deleted] 11y ago
They call it VPL: Visible Panty Lines.
It's a real thing in their crazy world.
Maybe it's just an excuse, who knows. But one thing is for sure, when girls go to clubs, they dress to impress men, even if they don't plan to do anything with them.
I'd keep an eye on her, but don't boot her just yet. At the very least, think of it as an experiment.
[deleted] 11y ago
They dress to impress men because it raises their desirability and power between women also. The alpha woman is the one who can attract the best mate. Even if they have a boyfriend they want to be the one 'all the guys want'.
[deleted] 11y ago
Its a real thing in the real world. I remember being in middle school and thinking I was so sneaky when I could see the VPL.
binrobinro 11y ago
My last girlfriend never wore underwear. She hated the lines it made on her jeans. She rarely wore skirts/dresses, but when she did, I loved it.
iamnotfromtexas90 11y ago
She's not wearing underwear because they threw it out after getting it covered in his cum. She's cheating.
Tarnsman4Life 11y ago
Two possible explanations: She got so drunk she crapped her panties and had to ditch them....or...shes a slut and was out looking for strange cock at the bar. Decide for yourself which is more likely.
PS: Don't wife up with sluts; the fact she is not wearing panties to the bar is an indication that...hint...shes a slut.
[deleted] 11y ago
Panty lines can actually be really embarrassing for a woman. Because then all the guys can see her underwear through her skirt. So it seems to make sense that she wouldn't wear underwear.
I wouldn't automatically jump to conclusions too fast...but I would definitely be on guard.
I dunno, it's a confusing situation. I guess if you can't trust her, then don't date her?
binrobinro 11y ago
I agree with you.
ElectroKarma 11y ago
Check your frame, she might just be doing that because she finally feels comfortable being with an alpha male, and was trying to make herself as sexy as possible when she got home. Just sayin..
KyfhoMyoba 11y ago
Uhhhhh, no.
[deleted] 11y ago
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ElectroKarma 11y ago
True, only the OP can know for sure.
Personally if it bothered me that much I'd demote her to a plate as well, but I personally wouldn't let it bother me. In my experience, the more alpha I've been, the sluttier they dress...
I still stand by what I said by check your frame op cause she's got you hamsterin over this. Either way if she's gotta go or not, jealousy and preoccupation fucks our shit up!
[deleted] 11y ago
/s