A few years ago, I remember the mass hysteria caused by a People v Turner. It was the case whereby "Emily Doe" claimed Brock Turner, a white student athlete from Stanford University, raped her. He was caught when two other students saw him on top of her, at a dumpster (no joke). He ran, got caught, then the trial. He was indicted for 2 counts of rape, 2 counts of sexual assault, and 1 count of attempt to rape. He was found guilty for 2 counts of sexual assault, and 1 count of attempted rape. Sentenced to 6 months in county jail, 3 years probation, lifelong registration as a sex offender. Lost his eligibility on 2016 Olympic swim team, lifelong-ban from Stanford. This week, "Emily Doe" comes forward as Chanel Miller, giving national interviews and publicizing her new book. I feel that there are a lot of gems in this case (apart from his stupidity) that we can apply to our own lives, on a smaller scale.
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First, NEVER be put in a "he says, she says" situation, even when the person you are arguing with can't even remember what happened. She claimed her last memory was around 12AM, with the dumpster "event" happening at 1AM, and regaining consciousness at 4:15AM. Turner claims to remember everything. So we have 4 hours where nobody knows what really happened, a literal "she said, me said" scenario. Yet, everyone believes the women WITHOUT A MEMORY who cried "rape, trauma, isolation, being silenced", etc. Rape kit comes out, no DNA in her vagina, no DNA on his cock, 0 evidence of sex, rape charges were dropped. Turns out his story of fingering and dry-humping her was all that happened. Somehow, this became "he dragged me through hell, and took away my voice". Personally I've seen a lot of dry humping, and fingering in back alleys - I never would have guessed that if a women wanted to, she could fuck a guy over to this extent.
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What about this lady? Turns out she is not even from Stanford, studies in UCSB (a less prestigious university), has a boyfriend, and went to Stanford JUST TO PARTY. CC, AWALT anyone? She came to party at the Kappa Alpha fraternity. To those outside the US, fraternity means "brotherhood", a society just for males. So, she literally came to a party hosted by a group of dudes. Her boyfriend also bombarded her phone all through the night, which she did not reply as it was on silent. Afterwards he came out and said he was "proud of her" and that she has a "ton of strength". No wonder she went to party with athletes, given beta bux was at home. Part of me wonders if Chanel Miller went through all of this to prove she is not a cheat, to keep her image and relationship clean. How many of you have ever seen an out-of-town girl, at a party? I'm guessing everyone here. Now how many of you realize that she can have THIS much power?
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Turner says he drank with her at the party, danced and kissed her AT the party, walked with her OUT of the party, escalated by touching her, asked to finger her, then got caught at a dumpster. Aside from being a dumbass who thinks with his penis near a dumpster, without realizing it is a bad look, the rest of the story should sound...quite relate-able? Meeting a girl, having drinks, kissing, escalating, is what everyone has done. Today, she can just simply say "I have no memory" to screw you over, even if you have evidence. AWALT - if she can do this to him, someone can do this to you. Even though Turner's EX-GIRLFRIEND came out to defend his character, nobody cared as it didn't fit the rapist agenda.
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I wonder what she wore, how much she drank, whether she WANTED to get drunk, who she came with, why she was alone, whether she wanted to be alone, why her phone was on silent when she had a BF waiting, etc. Evidence obtained by the defendants shows that she called herself a "party animal". Seems like a CC rider. She sees herself as a "lighthouse" for young women. These are all qualities I see in women EVERYWHERE, to think that any one of them could have the same power Chanel Miller has is baffling. More will do the same. Men have to be cautious now more than ever, especially as news become more sensationalized, and the court of public opinion (strangers who don't know you, or care about evidence) can affect your livelihood, job, family, and friends. People who sided with Chanel Miller even got promotions - there is tremendous benefits to siding with the victim, expect no sympathy.
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TL:DR - The trend is for MORE women to come out and bring sexual assault to the forefront. Men will continue to be told to "take responsibility" for drunken, horny women. Words like "you should have known better" will be said. Be smart and screen appropriately.
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Edit 1: I feel it is necessary to clarify her state of consciousness. As a preface, she was 22, he was 19. I see a lot of comments focused solely on this fact, perhaps because the phrase "what are you doing, she's unconscious" was used in one of her lawyer's opening statements. She says she is unconscious, Turner says she was not, that she gave consent for sexual activity (note: sex did not occur, but he says consent was given). He says, she says situation.
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Factually, she had given phone calls to her sister who also attended the same party (interestingly she ALSO said Brock Turner made a move on her), and to her sister's friend, after 12AM. 12AM is the time where she says she became "unconscious". She denies remembering the calls. Paramedics gave her a score of 11/15 on the Glasgow Coma Scale. 15 means full responses in the person's eyes, vocal cords, and motor skills. For example: cussing at a person, he opens his eyes, replies "what the fuck", and flips the bird. 0 means no sounds, no movement, no eye movement. A score of 11 is, to be clear, far from unconsciousness. It's certainly a grey area whether she is truly SO intoxicated she cannot give consent (despite scoring so well on the tests), or that she was a tired, sleepy drunk. Furthermore, Peter Jonsson, the person who tackled Turner admitted in CROSS EXAMINATION that he did NOT tell the police officer she was unconscious. This line was mis-representedly quoted as said by the righteous men on the night, when in reality it was really added on after. There appears to be NOBODY who can prove whether she was conscious, or unconscious, besides Chanel Miller herself and Brock Turner.
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Every situation is different, and whether or not she is objectively unconscious is irrelevant in the eyes of public opinion. The fact that the rape charges were dropped, and the light sentencing should give indication whether or not things were as bad as they presented. My point, and the nugget we can apply to our own lives, is to NEVER be in a "he says, she says" situation. You WILL lose.
DonkeyPunch19 4y ago
There is nothing worse than being a white male in 2019.
masculinetruth999 4y ago
Let's just be completely honest. If Brock Turners chin was 1 inch wider or square, the trial would've never even begun. He has a very easy to hate face.
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Didn't know any of these facts until today, damn, just figured since it was so blown up he actually did rape her. He just has a really easy to hate low-tier face, so he looks unconfident and weak. It's been proven that courts and juries appeal to appearance more than facts.
Edit: Damn, the dude never had a chance in court. Just googled his photo again. Asymmetrical nose, round chin, sparse eyebrows and hair, red lips, poor eye area. He's lucky he didn't get the electric chair. Society is fuckkkkkked. Of course any girl would deny fucking him to defend her fertility status
DigitalDog0001 4y ago
He found a girl passed out and had two choices. Help her or ignore her. The one he chose wasn't rape but it was totally fucked up. He is 100 percent to blame for what he got regardless of his victim now searching for the spotlight.
Being a man means doing the right thing. He did not.
TheAC997 4y ago
This case has such a weird creepy cult-like following, especially on reddit. For instance, people keep referring to the "dumpster," but leaving out that the dumpster was on the way to his dorm room. Or leaving out that the evidence she gave for why he couldn't have asked her if she wanted to be fingered was "most guys don’t ask" (yes, that is her exact quote).
throwitdownman 4y ago
The more the facts come out, the more apparent it seems that things were sensationalised. The issue here is that it has lead to serious repercussions, in return for selling papers. Miller gets interview on 60minutes and vaulted to sainthood, Brock’s name in shambles, judge loses his job due to public pressure which seriously undermines judicial independence.
Oh and Chanel Miller’s interview hit popular on Reddit. 10k+ upvotes on /news. Take a look at the comments.
Imperator_Red 5y ago
The average person can never accept the truth, which is that we have no idea what happened and never will, meaning that he is not guilty.
The reason that they can never accept the truth is because acknowledging the reality that we will never know if it was rape when two drunk college kids disappear and start hooking up would torpedo their entire worldview. It is a complete condemnation of hookup culture and free sex.
They would have to admit that all the rules and sexual morality that we used to have existed for a reason. And for the modern leftist who views himself as an enlightened beacon of morality who has helped raise humanity above the barbarism and conservatism of the past, admitting this would be to destroy his entire identity.
8380atgmaildotcom 5y ago
A defense attorney with a good understanding of hypergamy could be a really valuable commodity.
TheImpossible1 5y ago
Holy shit.
How come no one brings those facts up when this story hits the front page?
BuzzLightGear321 4y ago
You have to sort by 'controversial' to get facts now, they are downvoted to keep the narrative of "Masculinity is toxic".
evil_con_carne 5y ago
Seriously. I never bothered to learn about the case and assumed that there was actual penetrative sex involved.
plentyoffishes 5y ago
Sensationalism sells. Most people likely still think the Duke Lacrosse team gang raped some girl, but it turns out, she fabricated the entire story. But the media made it seem like they were all guilty and the real truth didn't come out until years later.
TheAC997 4y ago
Also, she's currently in prison for murdering her boyfriend.
TheImpossible1 5y ago
I don't believe it's just media desire for clicks that drives these lies. I believe there's a misandrist agenda in the media - never believe anything bad about a man or good about a woman, especially if a woman wrote it.
Flesh_Pillow5 5y ago
I'm shocked as well. Its good to take a red pill though. Sick world
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Imperator_Red 5y ago
Concern trolling. Against rules. Reported.
Turcey 5y ago
Your whole post history is you being a whiny bitch. Good job continuing that trend and crying to the mods.
TheRedPike Senior Endorsed 4y ago
But he's right. 30 day vacation.
istira_balegina 5y ago
Actually, you're wrong. Her sister was there when they left, AND SHE WAS COOL WITH IT. So clearly, she didnt pass out standing at the dumpster, at that point she was still in control of herself, and she apparently passed out after they started making out in a semi secluded area.
Your assumptions here are ignorant of the facts of the case and reflect only your own hubris.
DownyGall 5y ago
Yeah, it's definitely a sensationalist story that the media totally blew out of proportion. However, you are correct that Brock Turner isn't a great guy just being a dude. He was in the wrong and did a terrible thing. The Red Pill is that this sort of thing happens all the time (girl with a boyfriend whoring it up) and the media will demonize men out of proportion. But yeah, don't fucking defend Brock Turner.
throwitdownman 5y ago
Nobody here has implied that he is innocent, personally I’ve even called him out on being a dumbass. I’m simply pointing out the story has become twisted beyond proportions. There is a middle point between making him the poster child for rape, and him being a saint - hyperboles are not helpful.
This is a complicated issue. This requires a balanced viewpoint, which is something I hope discussions can lead towards. Having a balanced opinion for BOTH parties is literally justice incarnate. Somehow, discussing these points make TRP quarantined? If so, I suppose the productive conversations only happen behind quarantined channels.
godofsmiles1 5y ago
Amen. Sure, sloots gonna sloot, but that doesn't make them less of a person. It definitely doesn't give anyone the right to fingerbang them while unconscious. What if a you passed out and the chick you were with decided to give a little finger attention to your brown eye and behind the dumpster? Were you asking for it? I certainly don't want pine needles and whatever the fuck else is in the garbage in my orifices. No wonder this sub was quarantined.
Flesh_Pillow5 5y ago
You dont know what you're on about. And the reason this sub is quarantined is because it does bode well with the ideological viewpoints of the people in control of this site and they hsve no respect for freedom of speech
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bakamoney 5y ago
Getting drunk and taking a random guy back home is the ideal "Girls night out".
What else can you expect? Of course guys are at fault for everything that happens to them.
AnonymousKittenss 5y ago
She didn’t just say she was unconscious. TWO witnesses had to pull him off of her and both said she was passed out. Doesn’t matter if you were flirting or making out all night, the second the other person passes out it’s wrong.
TheAC997 4y ago
I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you've bought into the propaganda. The two witnesses said that Brock Turner got up and started to walk away, and then he saw them and they chased him.
trueliberal1 5y ago
I haven't followed this case, so I don't know what evidence and arguments were made to the jury, but based on the OP, it sounds like the guy panicked when he realized the situation looked bad, and running away convinced everyone that he was guilty despite no evidence. My analysis of what is said in the OP...
Translation: she came to the canvas to get laid and cheat on her boyfriend without being caught or getting a reputation.
First mistake. Frats are all about horny men trying to get laid. All women know this. This whole situation could have been avoided if coed colleges were outlawed and existing colleges were converted to single-sex. Let there be an institution having nothing to do with preparing you for a career that allows consent to be recorded and fucking facilitated. Such an institution would be far less risky to both men and women and far cheaper than college.
Bullshit. No millennial, nonetheless a Gen Z, woman is going to not realize that she has gotten repeated texts. Have you ever tried to take a cellphone from a young woman? It's more dangerous than getting between a bear and honey-coated salmon.
Translation: He's a cuck and she fooled him into believing that she wasn't cheating on him. I hope he marries her. Cucks deserve shit like that. She'll bear someone else's baby and he'll believe that somehow he had a black baby.
Exactly, but she hooked up with another beta anyway.
Exactly. Falsely accuse a man of rape to avoid your boyfriend and others knowing that you are riding the CC.
throwitdownman 5y ago
Even part of me, having been in university, finds it doubtful that a 22 year old, which I’m assuming she was a senior, was this special butterfly who did not know what happens in a frat party. Someone who was 22, who traveled to another school, to a frat party, who didn’t have the awareness to stick with a friend.
Her story is literally - I went to a party, don’t remember anything, and got raped by a 19 year old. Seriously, something about her taking NO accountability about anything is reminds me of AWALT gaslighting.
istira_balegina 5y ago
Not only that, but the jury never proved Turner knew she had passed out. They assumed because he ran away he must be guilty.
It really was a sham of justice. Dauber was a family friend, wrote her victim statement, and incited the masses which undoubtedly influenced the jury.
The judge surely knew this which is why he mitigated the sentencing.
The whole thing was an example of mob justice with the fake news leading the hordes. Turner may be guilty but the evidence just isnt there.
throwitdownman 5y ago
Even the words ‘ran away’ has negative connotations. I wonder if he ran, as in fucking sprinted like a burglar from the police, or if it was a ‘fuck this shit’ walk away. From the facts of the case, he ‘ran’ 75 feet, or 25 meters. Its words like these which help drive the sensationalism.
istira_balegina 5y ago
Also "behind the dumpster". They were actually in FRONT of the dumpster, as the path the norwegians were on and which Turner was taking ran on the same side of the dumpster. It was only "behind" from the perspective of the street, but the street was not how pedestrians passed by the dumpster.
It was Dauber who invented that term. Talk about straight white male privilege. Turner never had a chance and the public is not even aware of the facts or his perspective. They totally silenced and marauded him.
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fokm 5y ago
Brock Turner didn’t even have intercourse with the girl. They were both drunk and some foreign guys riding bikes decided to get involved. The girl had a boyfriend and so this was her way of getting out of getting caught.
When that Brock Turner stuff was going around, did you just assume he had intercourse? They wanted you to believe he did. Did you hear anything about his side of the story? No. What you heard about was a sympathetic judge who had to book him under the law.
Did you know a prominent feminist got involved with the alleged “victim” right away?
If you read the case, it really was just a couple of college kids doing what college kids do. They were both drunk yet he got punished.
Any of you in high school or college could be the next Brock Turner.
EDIT: Start here if you want more of the truth behind this story--for instance did you know the cyclists that found them didn't mention to the cops that the girl was passed out? Seems kind of relevant, doesn't it?
Flesh_Pillow5 5y ago
Wow. I'm guilty of assuming all those things. The other side of the story didn't exist. Only the part about his dad saying it was only 2 mins of actions or something
ingenjor 5y ago
Swedish Heroes. Actual headline
fokm 5y ago
Of course they were Swedes.
throwitdownman 5y ago
Agreed. I don’t even think the judge was biased, or unfair. If anything it would be insane to book him for life, for fingering a girl after a party where they both kissed, danced, and hugged.
To think he lost his job due to public pressure (a petition with 1M signatures) is also unfortunate. Cynically, it would have been better had he done the ‘PR’ move and jailed Turner for 6 years, throwing him under the bus. He would still have his job, and avoided the PR nightmare. Sad state of affairs.
Onein1024th 5y ago
Pontious Pilate move right there
ZeusAlansDog 5y ago
You can't if you don't fuck drunk women before you know them.
In 2019, thats a very dangerous place to put yourself in. We can complain all we want about how it isn't fair, but the rules of the game are what they are.
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crimsonkodiak 5y ago
He literally assaulted a woman in public. Say what you want about #metoo, the proper steps you need to protect to take to protect yourself against false accusations, etc., etc., the dude fingered a passed out woman in public. If any of you do this, your dumb ass deserves to go to prison and be kicked out of school too.
There's nothing wrong with taking a drunk girl home. If you want to protect yourself, record audio on your phone so you can prove she was an active and willing participant. But if she passes out, you stop. You can't have sex with or finger a passed out woman.
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fokm 5y ago
Was she awake when he started? Was he drunk too? Why would he assault someone in public and risk getting caught and having his life ruined? And she was spotted leaving the party with him.
Scratch all of the above. I’ll make it simple for you. In all of these awful rape posts about Brock Turner that went viral a few years ago, did any of them make it clear that there was no intercourse? The answer to that is no. Why?
Because a story about a drunk guy fingering a passed out girl behind a dumpster just wouldn’t outrage enough people. They had to lie by omission to get the outrage.
kellykebab 5y ago
Uh, it absolutely would. And that information was presented in the articles I read.
crimsonkodiak 5y ago
Doesn't matter. If you're having sex and your partner passes out, you have to stop. No different than them telling you to stop.
Doesn't matter.
I don't know. He was horny? Again, doesn't matter.
Doesn't matter.
Because they're largely pushed by a group of misandrists with an anti-male political agenda. So what?
Turner was an idiot who put himself in a bad spot. Don't be an idiot and the same won't happen to you.
BuzzLightGear321 4y ago
You can give consent before you pass out for sex during passing out. EX: Consent for surgery for when you are put under, it still applies. Or gf gives you consent to fuck her when she's sleeping, it still applies.
But it has to be clear that she's consenting to sex when she's passed out. I'm just being technical here.
swagswag1000 5y ago
that's what i'm saying.
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brock turner was exceptionally stupid and could have easily avoided this situation. under the assumption she wasn't passed out at the beginning of the fingering (giggidy) all he had to do was stop when she did pass out but he didn't, with a girl who had a BF, behind a dumpster, where it looks SO FUCKING SKETCHY.
i mean bruh, comoooon. even if he's 100% innocent, he put himself in a situation where he looks so UNBELIEVABLY guilty.
fokm 5y ago
I think those things do matter. They were both drunk yet he got punished. For all we know he was passed out too and awoken by the cyclists.
I am not defending Brock. He could be the biggest piece of shit ever. What I am defending, though, is the right not to have your life ruined over what was very likely a woman changing her mind. If she consented before she passed out, it changes the entire story. And in all likelihood she did. And if they were both drunk, regardless of what the law says, there was no criminal intent on his part. An overblown case and warning to everyone, and that's where we agree.
crimsonkodiak 5y ago
I'm just stating the legal analysis.
As for him being drunk, even if you get drunk, don't be an idiot. Being drunk isn't an excuse to sexually assault someone. Not just legally, but practically. I'm sure you've been blackout drunk before (if not, you should try it, it's fun), but you haven't assaulted a woman. Being drunk doesn't relieve you of your ability to make decisions. It didn't relieve the woman here of hers, but when she passed out, he had to stop.
fokm 5y ago
I actually haven't been black out drunk before and likely never will. And yes, never sexually assaulted a woman.
If roles were reversed and he passed out and she kept going, nothing would have happened here. This is the core TRP tenet -- not that it's unfair (though it is), but that women keep saying they are equals. They are not. If she got behind the wheel of a car and killed someone, claiming she was too drunk to legally consent to drive would be laughable. But if she passes out while he's fingering her after she's consented, he's a rapist. Equality doesn't suit women there, and we must treat them like children who need protection.
crimsonkodiak 5y ago
Like I said, you should try it once. Some of the best sex I've ever had was when me the woman were absolutely stone cold shitfaced.
istira_balegina 5y ago
No you're not stating the legal analysis. You're missing the most important and basic element, which is mens rea. And there was no conclusive evidence of that. You, like the rest of the hordes, are assuming he must have known she was passed out. Really? How do you know that?
Short answer: You dont. You were just influenced like a sheep by the lying media and still dont even know it.
crimsonkodiak 5y ago
There's rarely conclusive proof of mens rea, nor will there be until we invent mind reading machines. In the real world, juries draw practical inferences about mens rea based on the facts. Here, they looked at the facts, like the fact he had whiskey dick, that he was behind a fucking dumpster and that he ran when the bicyclists came upon him.
Again, I don't know Brock Turner and don't care about him one way or another. All I'm saying is he was a dumbass and got nailed because of it. If he had taken the girl to his apartment, odds are we wouldn't even know his name. Instead, he fingered her behind a dumpster and ruined his own life.
istira_balegina 5y ago
First: they were in FRONT of the dumpster from the perspective of pedestrians. If they were behind the dumpster, the Swedes would never have been able to see what was going on from a distance. Dauber invented the "behind the dumpster" PR, and everyone bought it, even you, til this day.
Second: how many people having consensual sex in public, (say on the beach) would run if busted. I guarantee you 99%+. So that's an irrelevant data point.
Third: whiskey dick? Com'on.
The jury decided based on a preponderance of the evidence, but not on beyond a reasonable doubt. The finding should be thrown out.
When Turner appealed, the appeals court said, well, if a jury could reasonably come to their conclusion, then it's a good conclusion. Which is stupid af, because that's not the standard in criminal court. The appeals court should have said, could a reasonable jury conclude that the evidence pointed to their conclusion beyond a reasonable doubt. Which is what it did not.
Every judge on that panel was fearful for their job. They didnt want to be Persky'd. And justice got thrown out the window.
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MattMan970 5y ago
That is reasonable, though this is a male sex forward forum we have to recognize the world we live in and hold ourselves accountable.
crimsonkodiak 5y ago
Absolutely, I'm not trying to argue otherwise. "Don't finger a passed out woman behind a dumpster" is just common sense.
umizumiz 5y ago
Tbh, being behind a dumpster with a passed out woman... You've already fucked up somewhere lol
throwitdownman 5y ago
Crimson, as far as I know, I don’t even think her being unconscious is a proven fact. The two Swedish men who called the police made no mention of the fact that she was unconscious. Her being unconscious is her side of the story.
Secondly unconsciousness is relative. There is the Glasgow Coma Scale, to which she scored an 11/15. 15 is full motor skills, 0 is no eye movement, no verbal sounds, no motor skills. You can only conclude there was mild brain injury. Disorientation and fatigue from alcohol does not equal passed out.
I find it uncomfortable that the narrative exists that she was literally dead unconscious. It is equally likely she dozed off from being tired from drinking. Again, ‘she says he says’ material, we know how this story ends.
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RealMcGonzo 5y ago
Went to a frat party alone at a different school, ignores calls from BF. Can't help but laugh at the chump BF. Hook, line and sinker - fuck'll swallow anything.
throwitdownman 5y ago
Imagine how his BF felt, GF at another school, ignoring his calls all night. Probably had the ‘nothing happened’ talk the next day, things getting back normal until she eventually trickle truths.
I’ve literally seen women do this to ‘test if their boyfriend loves them’. Then, they cry when the BF inevitably gets jealous. Eventually, they both makeup through the phone. Now, with all her hormones worked up, she goes back into the party forgetting the entire conversation.
Women thrive off emotions. It fuels them. Probably the best piece of general TRP advice is to hard-next women, as they are not worth your energy.
WestyWorld 5y ago
I definitely think that the whole “GF goes to a party and doesn’t answer her phone” situation is a hard-next scenario on its own. But fuck man so many women do this kind of shit at one point or another that it is impossible to maintain any sort of LTR without being super suspicious of them.
It’s almost like if you are ever in an LTR you have to either trust them completely or just assume they are fucking other guys behind your back because if she wants to, she can and will have sex with another guy and completely cover it up.
Truedemocracy5 5y ago
BF is royally screwed though if he breaks up with her after that will be branded as a victim blamer lmao
BuzzLightGear321 4y ago
As if this shit only happened once. This girl has been hitting up parties and getting wasted with hot athletes before 100%
peaceandlug 4y ago
Bigger fucking for him if he keeps her, tho.
Schhwing 5y ago
2 things I take away from this:
Don’t run if ‘caught’. Makes him look guilty and as if he’s doing something wrong. Also adds to her a sense of abandonment. I think this is key in this case.
peaceandlug 4y ago
In re the running: Strange woman, just met at a meat market. While fingering her, two dudes come running and yelling...is one of them her husband? You bet I'D run!
Schhwing 4y ago
Highly unlikely in this situation
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Truedemocracy5 5y ago
Turner is a great example of the narrative the media tries to spin with things like rape culture. Straight white upper class student athlete is absolute red meat for them and for liberals, think duke lacrosse all over again
Ask anyone based on coverage of this story and they will tell you he took a passed out girl to an alley and tried to penetrate her. Reality is a lot more grey than that
He was making out with her at a party (normal), one party was more drunk than the other (normal), they went to leave and fooled around in an alley (normal), she passed out while he was fingering her (this is the point he should have stopped). Yea, he knew he was doing something wrong most likely as he ran away when he got caught but the truth of the matter is far more different than what’s being presented and the majority of the story happens every night on campus with both parties being satisfied
Yet this guy was paraded around as some rapist. Not saying you should die on a hill defending Brock Turner at all, but objectively looking at the facts you have to wonder if this is the rape culture poster boy then are things really that bad. And if we don’t live in such a gynocentric society then is she really a hero?
She’s nothing more than a whore looking to cash in on a book deal. Smart move at least
throwitdownman 5y ago
Interestingly enough, seems like all ‘rape’ cases involve a female of lower SMV, against a person with higher SMV. She was likely attracted to Turner DUE to his status as an athlete attending a good school. Somehow it gets flipped to him being privileged.
On a smaller scale, I’ve noticed my most ‘troublesome’ plates were those who are lower in SMV. The type with school issues, family issues, friend issues, etc.
Truedemocracy5 5y ago
A woman from a good background knows rape is damaging to her smv. If you’re lower class though rape, especially by a higher tier man, can boost your status among women
It’s why almost every woman has a “rape” story these days. To be so irresistible a man has to rape you is a dream
Flesh_Pillow5 5y ago
They're jealous of success aswell. They think the success comes because they're white and middle class. They don't see the journey, they don't see the sacrifice, they think Brock was born an athlete, money took him to the school. It's high level stupidity. It's dangerous. I'm actually impressed by Brock Turners strength. His been through a hell of alot.
actuallythink 5y ago
Wonder where the beta bux bf is now, post book deal.
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istira_balegina 5y ago
"He knew he was doing something wrong".
Yea, fingering a woman in public. Anyone would run away if approached by two hostile dudes yelling at you.
Truedemocracy5 5y ago
Two international students going for a bike right at night on a weekend sounds like beta white knights if there ever was one
___Sohan___ 5y ago
Societies that do not have restrictions put in place to control lying women, will always suffer from problems of false rape accusations and many other societal ailments.
Women must be controlled by laws that must always be cautious of lying women.
throwitdownman 5y ago
I don’t even think this is that hot of a take. The same could be said of both genders - there must be rules in place which prevent lying, and sufficient consequences for doing so.
___Sohan___ 4y ago
Due to the way the minds of the average beta males work, it is necessary for laws to be extra cautious of women.
omega_dawg93 5y ago
meanwhile a black dude did 28 yrs bc a woman dreamed he raped her.
TwentyEighteen 5y ago
Actually I think the fact that it was a middle class white guy is what made the (leftist) media and public go after him so ferociously. These people literally believe that white males are rigging and controlling the world in their favor. So they saw it as a way to get back at them or bring “justice”. This case let them release their political frustrations
idontevenlift37 5y ago
Emmett till was killed bc a white woman said he sexually assaulted her.
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omega_dawg93 5y ago
and she later admitted she lied about it.
most people are mad at her but forget about the scum that killed that child.
peaceandlug 4y ago
I think that that was uncorroborated. Actually, quite conveniently so.
CantStopWontStop___ 5y ago
He was killed cause she said he whistled at her.
peaceandlug 4y ago
Iirc, his friends/cousins/wtf said that he made indecent comments to a married white woman. Not a safe thing to do for even a White Man, in the South.
Flesh_Pillow5 5y ago
Bro I'm black..make another post, I don't give a damn about some unnamed black man.
excaliboor 5y ago
Way to water down a complicated case. I see you didn't actually read the full story.
bryoneill11 5y ago
Please explain
sixseven89 5y ago
why don't you explain it then
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balalasaurus 5y ago
Men will always lose a case of he said vs she said. Black men lose more.
DonkeyPunch19 4y ago
If Turner were black nobody would even know about this case and nobody would care.
And he would probably get off because of muh racism
Andgelyo 5y ago
Black man vs White Woman= Game over.
As a comment on YouTube once said, “there’s nothing more trouble than a drunk white woman, run away as far as possible”
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Gaboyski_ 5y ago
It's funny because feminists are also this gung ho about racial issues and yet they would throw down a black man if it benefits their interests.
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Flesh_Pillow5 5y ago
I agree we lose more. But this guy was a child mate. A child
SuperCrazy07 5y ago
I think you guys are talking about two different cases. Till was a child who was innocent. The guy who served 28 years because of a dream was not a child. And, his innocence is at least somewhat in doubt (at least based on the very limited info I have).
Flesh_Pillow5 5y ago
Brock Turner was a child mate. Barely even 20
SuperCrazy07 5y ago
Turner is also not the guy who spent 28 years in jail because of a dream.
ZeusAlansDog 5y ago
The new Malcolm Gladwell book takes a really interesting look at this case. It's worth a read/listen.
Flesh_Pillow5 5y ago
His new book?!
Truedemocracy5 5y ago
Any link to audio? Would be fascinated if he approached it in a different angle, but the media has made up its kind in this one
ZeusAlansDog 5y ago
I don't have one, but if you have audible you can use a credit on it.
Basically his point is that it's a very nuanced situation where two people were trying to navigate both consent, which is hard enough on it's own right given there's no universal definition, and alcohol, which puts you in a state of myopia where you prioritize short term gratification over long term priorities. Couple that with a situation where no one could have been a reliable witness (because they were all ABSURDLY drunk), and you've got a very murky situation. He doesn't give turner a free pass (and I'm not either), but he's one of the few people actually looking at the situation instead of calling it an open and shut rape case featuring a psychopathic male.
It's a very interesting take. The entire book is worth a listen.
Truedemocracy5 5y ago
Nice to hear about the nuance. The leftists and media types will say consent should always be asked for which women do not want
Ben_ai 5y ago
I don't see that navigating consent is difficult at all.
I've slept with many women and I'd say the majority of the times I've met new women alcohol has been involved yet consent was never once in question.
I know they want to and its clear before and after.
This whole consent bullshit seems to be a new thing and unless I'm proven otherwise I'm going to believe its being used by women who regret what they did.
swagswag1000 5y ago
that enthusiastic consent shit based on the fact that some women are "scared to say no" really boggles my mind too.
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cos i've literally never been in a sexual situation with a girl who was scared to say no. they always stopped me or told to stop if they weren't comfortable with something. I've never had ambiguous consent.
dkirkpatr 5y ago
Soon going to need to carry a form drawn up by a lawyer and have her sign.
MattyAnon Admin 5y ago
But it's not a nuanced situation.
She claims rape, but sex didn't take place.
That's not nuance, that's a false accusation from a girl who got caught cheating on her boyfriend.
bsutansalt 5y ago
With a potential Olympic athlete.
After midnight.
After going out to a frat party.
While ignoring all communications by her boyfriend, but still being in contact with her friends.
Flesh_Pillow5 5y ago
Exactly
istira_balegina 5y ago
Everyone has to blame Turner on some level, otherwise they are clear rape apologists (/s). It's the sad state if affairs in the US.
MattyAnon Admin 5y ago
Yeah, virtue signalling.
It's not just the US. There was a man convicted in the UK of raping a woman he had never even met. No proof beyond her word and no other evidence obviously.
Don't forget that we're only hearing about the subsequently-proved false accusations. There's a load more innocent men suffering in prison because women need an excuse for their indiscretions.
666Evo 4y ago
I'm late to the party, but do you have a link to that story? I feel like having my jimmies rustled.
MattyAnon Admin 4y ago
Sorry, can't find a link to it from a quick look.
There's a few famous cases like this that keep popping up, because the degree of proof required in rape cases is sometimes so low that complete innocence can later be proved. Sadly not always.
666Evo 4y ago
Just imagine being arrested for something you've never done to anyone, let alone to a person who you've never even seen before...
Talk about a black pill!
throwitdownman 5y ago
It’s truly shocking how a women, who literally (or claims to) have 0 memory, is so convinced that she is correct even in the face of evidence.
Imagine being blackout drunk, and literally hamstering the worst case scenario upon yourself, and then pursuing legal remedies. Now imagine that you received evidence that no sex happened. Instead of backing down, you now double down. You bring race, status, genders, every topic to get everyone involved. Now imagine being so far gone, that you begin to see yourself as an icon for young women to look up to, a role model.
Protect yourself now more than ever.
MattyAnon Admin 5y ago
Yes..... "I claim I can't remember anything therefore I was raped multiple times".
Our gynocentric society defends and even encourages this behaviour and thought pattern
SalporinRP 5y ago
The issue of consent and alcohol will always be murky but just like the media was overly zealous against Turner, OP is equally overzealous in defending him.
The girl did not wake up when the paramedic shook her and shouted in her face and she was puking as the ambulance was taking her away.
I think TRP is a good place, but if we're at the point where we're defending a guy who was stupid enough to finger bang an unconscious girl behind a dumpster then we will be banned within the year.
ThrowFader 5y ago
stupid and *drunk* enough
MattyAnon Admin 5y ago
No murkiness in this case as there was no sex.
Likely she wasn't unconscious at the time
SalporinRP 5y ago
Ok but their was sexual contact. You're arguing semantics here.
How do you know that
And the rape charges were dropped so what's your point
MattyAnon Admin 4y ago
HE WAS CHARGED WITH RAPE.
This not semantics. He was charged with the crime of rape, yet there was no sex. This isn't a minor quibble.
She was cheating with her boyfriend so she lied about the whole event.
My point, seeing as this needs hammering into your head still, is this:
therefore
How is this so hard for you to understand? What's your agenda here that you so wilfully need to try and make him out to be a criminal despite all the wrong charges against him?
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SalporinRP 5y ago
Guys this thread is a fucking shit show full of lies.
"Shaohsuan “Steven” Fanchiang, a paramedic at the Palo Alto Fire Department, described Doe’s level of responsiveness when he cared for her on the scene at KA. Doe did not respond to the “shake and shout” procedure used to rouse unconsciousness patients and only temporarily opened her eyes after Fanchiang applied “painful stimuli” by pinching hard on her nail beds." - https://www.stanforddaily.com/2015/01/29/police-report-turner-admits-sexual-contact-denies-alleged-rape/
Yeah so not really a he-said, she-said situation.
So OP writes a fanfic about what happened that night and idiots on this sub lap it up because they're angry at women they believe a random dude on the internet who didn't provide a single source.
If we support retarded posts like this our sub will be gone within the year
handybh89 5y ago
I agree with 90% of what I read on here about TRP. But this dude RAN when it was discovered what he was doing with that girl behind the dumpster. If you aren't able to call out blatant wrong conduct when it's in your face then it really undermines TRP and those who try to follow it.
peaceandlug 4y ago
Was one of the men a jealous husband/stalker? You'd fucking run, in a second, if you were fingering a strange drunken woman you'd just pulled at a party, and two strange men came charging and yelling at you.
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Flesh_Pillow5 5y ago
A child who didn't know how to react perhaps?
fokm 5y ago
Careful. Yes he ran. Why? Maybe two strangers are like, "What the fuck are you doing," and he sees that his consensual encounter now looks bad. He didn't know if they were going to beat him up or what.
Very easy to pass judgement when you weren't there. I can spin it in a way that he was trying to protect himself, and you can spin it to say he was obviously guilty.
The main lesson: don't do stupid shit in public. Keep your guard up. Had he just gotten her back to his place, my belief is consensual sex would have occurred and we would never have heard any of this story. However, literally thousands of college kids before Brock did what Brock did and did not have their lives ruined over it.
I also think this case really diminishes true victims of violent rape. This case gets trumpeted while real brutalities are ignored.
handybh89 5y ago
If it was so consensual the woman could have easily explained the situation to the strangers. Right?
peaceandlug 4y ago
If it's so consensual, a false accuser would take back her accusations-Right?
BuzzLightGear321 4y ago
Do you think so logical when you are drunk? He's a dumb 19 horny dude, and having sex in public is illegal, no shit he ran.
bakamoney 5y ago
But its the guys fault that she got shitfaced drunk?
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Reformed_Monkey 5y ago
Dude he had sex with an unconcious woman.
Mods can you delete this retarded fucking post.
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Imperator_Red 5y ago
You think the mods are going to support your concern trolling? Societal issues like this are well within the purview of TRP.
Flesh_Pillow5 5y ago
Can you explain why you think that is? There's information in the post that can be verified. I'm only curious. Thanks
throwitdownman 5y ago
TRP has a backup site. It is literally on EVERY single post here. There was nothing which pushed TRP into quarantine in the first place. Admins never bothered to explain the quarantine. If TRP on reddit were to be deleted, it would not be due to this post, or any other particular post. It’ll be because management told admin to delete the sub.
Nothing said here is illegal. It’s a discussion, with no actionable steps. Nothing malicious, nothing illegal. The only thing which may be hurt are precious, fragile feelings, in which case this sub would have been shut down years ago. Censorship will be denying members a learning opportunity. Once again, nothing said here is illegal, or even that contrarian. Honestly, feelings won’t even be hurt if people took the time to read the entire post, instead of projecting biases.
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duckyhs 5y ago
Imagine being this retarded if thats what you got from OP's post.
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dkirkpatr 5y ago
Look what they are doing to Kavanaugh. It's insane
Rx_Red 5y ago
I wonder how this exact situation would have played out if everything stayed the same, except for escalating in such a putrid location. I doubt she would have ever been "Emily Doe" if he had just taken her to an empty frat room and 2 guys didn't incidentally walk by to see an "attempted" dumpster-rape
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sixseven89 5y ago
Shit I didn't know any of this. I thought Turner was a piece of shit like everyone else. Maybe include a couple sources for your major claims (like his ex defending him) but if this is true, that's crazy
edit: you didn't mention whether Miller was unconscious or not
throwitdownman 5y ago
Honestly, he’s stupid more than anything. He was 19 it happened, and Chanel Miller was 22. I feel if it was truly reported correctly, he won’t be the poster boy of rape. How can a person, who did not engage in sex, be the most visible icon for rape?
Again, due to the ‘he said, she said’ nature of the case, it’s impossible to verify facts. Turner says he received verbal consent, Miller says no consent was given. Turner said they drank, danced, kissed, and she agreed to leave with him, and she gave consent. Miller said she lost all memory.
If anything, let this be a lesson to be extra careful around women. One day it can be rape, another day it’s assault, and another day ‘rape eyes’. Protect yourself by educating yourself.
Flesh_Pillow5 5y ago
It's a massive red pill in of itself. My mind is boggled.
ArdAtak 5y ago
Wow. I never knew these details about the story. Makes sense. Terrible.
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dynospectrum7 5y ago
Let this be another example as to why you shouldn't ever be so thirsty that you feel the need to troll for easy drunk women.
pussymail 5y ago
Nothing more than a self hating Asian that was looking for Chad dick that night
7thAnvil 5y ago
Drunken sex with a college girl you just met while you are also a college student has got to be just about the most reckless sexual behavior you can engage in. At the very least she can get you expelled if she regrets the encounter or feels spurned in any way. She does not need evidence beyond her 'testimonial'. Obama's university kangaroo courts (still ruining young men's lives in all 50 states) will expel you based on this alone.
Flesh_Pillow5 5y ago
I agree. The only people who should be having sex with college girls are men who can afford to via sugar daddy websites. It's too easy to destroy a man
peaceandlug 4y ago
Yes, but then, there is a power imbalance, anyway!
Cfwydirk 5y ago
One thing you did not mention. I saw them over 30 years ago, my son saw them 10 years ago to present. Women who come to the party 1/2 in the bag, drinking to get shit faced and wanting to “party!” Men, run away!
bakamoney 5y ago
But its not her fault she got drunk!
In fact what happens to her own self after getting shitfaced drunk is also everyone's else's responsibility except her own.
Imagine if guys were constantly getting robbed while drunk and going through the same fucking alley every time.
Imperator_Red 5y ago
I wish men could escape responsibility for the stupid things they typically do when drunk, like fighting and breaking stuff.
hemlock35 5y ago
Okay I know this is beside the point, but he had no chance of making the 2016 Olympic team. He wasn’t even scoring on Stanford. Let’s not conflate his accomplishments for our arguments sake.
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