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- Hide Preview | 245 Comments | submitted 9 months ago by mallardcove [Post Locked]

There is nothing more pathetic than a man who ego lifts at the gym.

For those of you who don't know what ego lifting is,

Ego lifting is someone who sadly gives a fuck about what others think of them at the gym, and loads more weight on the bar than they are capable of handling just so they can be seen by others "lifting" as much weight as they can get away with.

Notice "lifting" in quotation marks. Yeah you might be able to do the minimum it takes to "lift" said weight, but at what cost? Your form sucks, you didn't do enough reps, you didn't do the right lift, and so on.

I see ego lifters every day at the gym. Doing way more weight than they can handle. Doing curls where they throw their shoulders backward so hard and have their elbows out in front of their body so far that they are getting zero bicep activation at all and turning it into a front deltoid workout.

Or squatting 1/4 of the way down. Or dead lifting with a rounded back that looks like a question mark. Or using all the momentum they possibly can to bring the bar down on lat pulldowns. Turning incline bench/incline DB bench into a flat bench by moving their ass forward and arching their back. Turning overhead presses into a push press. You get the idea.

A good prescription for being an insecure ego lifting faggot is to try out the Vince Gironda 8x8 system.

8 sets of 8 reps.... with 15 seconds of rest

Vince Gironda was an old school body builder who called this system "the honest workout" Your ego will quickly be crushed with this workout program. Because in order to do 8 sets of 8 with only 15 seconds or rest, you can't be doing a lot of weight.

Run it for 6 weeks. If you want to ease into it, take the first week and do 30 seconds of rest instead of 15 to get the tempo down, and calibrate the weight you can handle. Then in week 2, go down to 20 seconds. Weeks 3-6, 15 seconds. I guarantee you the initial weights you choose will be too heavy. That's how it was for me. You think you are picking a light weight, and then you realize you can't finish the 8 sets of 8 and have to go lower next time.

It's not just 8 sets of 8, its 8 sets of 8 with good form. If you have to compromise your form at any point except maybe the last rep or two on the last set, its too heavy.

Barbell curling 20 pounds? Dumbell curling 10 pounds? Squatting 135? Overhead Pressing only the bar? Neck Pressing only 115 pounds? Having to use the assist pad on pull ups/chin ups? If the thought of doing any of that makes you shudder because gasp people might think you are weak, the 8x8 system will put that mindset to rest. I can do 20+ chin ups easily in a single set. But in an 8x8 I have to do them assisted. Oh no, people are seeing me do assisted chin ups, oh no! How will I survive?

Here are the lifts I do when I run this program:

Monday: Gironda Neck Press, Wide Grip Dips, Overhead Press, Lateral Raise, Lying Tricep Extension, Smith Machine Reverse Grip Bench

Tuesday: Wide Grip Lateral Pulldown, Assisted Chin Ups, Drag Curls, Spider Curls, Reverse Grip Barbell Curls, Forearm Wrist Curls

Wednesday: Squat, Hack Squat, Leg Curls, Standing Calf Raises, Cable Ys, Barbell Shrugs

Thursday: Incline DB Press, Cable Crossovers, Standing DB Press, Kneeling Face Pulls, Rope Tricep Pushdowns, Overhead Rope Tricep Extensions

Friday: Chest Supported Row, Assisted Pull Up, Barbell Curl, Incline DB Curl, Reverse Grip DB Curl, Reverse Grip Wrist Curls

Saturday: Leg Press, Glute Ham Raise, Seated Calf Raise, Hang Clean, Prone Press

Sunday: OFF

Run it for 6 weeks. You'll learn how to workout at a fast pace, and perfect good form. I run it for 6 weeks every year, and just got done with my most recent 6 week cycle and its a great way to disrupt your body.

[-] velocimo 278 Points 9 months ago

i had been lifting for 5 years and learning a lot about strength and hypertrophy training, and can say for sure your advice sucks.

[-] HBenedek38 17 Points 9 months ago

Fucking on point man. Someone with brain!

[-] reddzeppelin 13 Points 9 months ago

i think its a great routine for a wrestler. or for someone who is already a powerful lifter and needs more stamina for their health and recovery. but your average person doing this? 15 seconds of rest isnt going to be enough to lift anything but the smallest weights and its going crush ego alright, because theyll be training for endurance only, which is again fine if thats what you need, but not most people's goal. in fact if you just want endurance get a mountain bike, this is not a program for your average and erson, its for bodybuilding pros.

[-] Throwaway-242424 1 Point 9 months ago

A wrestler should be drilling or sparring if they need more fitness, and the same goes for any other athlete. The whole point of cross-training in the weight room is to train attributes that can't be trained optimally through sport-specific training, like maximal strength, and unlike stamina.

[-] reddzeppelin 1 Point 9 months ago

there are so many different lifts here, it would actually improve coordination greatly to learn to do these with good form. improved motor coordination is a known effect of weight training, and this could do that. the problem is you'd have to start so low and build so gradually, unless your goal in the worlds strongest man competition, or some other life goal like a wrestling gold medal, bodybuilding title, this isn't a lifting program for an insecure vain loser. I get what the OP is trying to do, you COULD lift like this and work your way up, but that's someone already disciplined and driven towards a life goal, for the plan to be to start with such an extreme base of strength endurance.


if you don't already have discipline, get rid of everything and just do the hack squats. 100 hack squats will challenge your ego plenty, and are a good compliment to front squats, back squats, overhead squats, clean and press. they were invented by the same guy who invented the bench press. a good way to get started at weightlifting since they encourage lifting with a good range of motion.

[-] Truedemocracy4 2 Points 9 months ago

It’s good for endurance type training or if you want to be good at random shit like obstacle course races but yea for strength or mass it sucks

[-] blacklightsleaze 1 Point 9 months ago

Tried this Gironda 8x8 bullshit training back in the day. It gives you crazy pump obviously, but without any long term gains. Actually I doubt this program will achieve any gains at all for an advanced lifter.

High rep/low weights never worked for me. 4-5 years ago I was able to do crazy amounts for body weight exercises, was able to do something like 80-100 push ups, 30-35 pull-ups, 50-60 dips, everything in one rep. But my overall physique was not impressive at all, I had 14-15 inch arms. And after I started train heavy weight/low rep my muscle blew up next 2-3 years, I putted 2 inches on my arms and never seen my legs so big from the heavy squats.

[-] GayLubeOil -9 Point 9 months ago

Vince Gironda is a pioneer of bodybuilding, who moved the sport from blocky Steve Reaves to cut Frank Zane. You have no idea what your talking about.

Or not?

Prove me wrong post physique.

[-] HeidekrautRot-Lila 33 Points 9 months ago

Yeah lots of bodybuilders at that time came up with their own amazing training plan. Most of them were taking steroids though and doing 6 exercises at 8x8 6 times a week only makes sense if you use drugs too.

[-] whatdidshewrite 11 Points 9 months ago

Lots of bodybuilders cut by doubling their volume but you'd have to be on steroids to make that work. Running a deficit kills your recovery time and doubling your workload on top of that is a recipe for injury.

[-] GayLubeOil -13 Point 9 months ago

Higher volume doesn't mean more work because it can be offset by lower weight. So no steroids arnt necessary and your wrong.

[-] gl0rfind3l 9 Points 9 months ago

In lifting terms, volume = work.

[-] GayLubeOil 6 Points 9 months ago

No it doesn't.

Work = (Weight x Volume) / Time

[-] dusara217 9 Points 9 months ago

Volume is the amount of weight you've been lifting multiplied by the number of total reps. Volume =/= reps. There is a reason that any science-based modern workout plan recommends 1-3 minutes of rest between sets, and that is because that is how you maximize volume without sacrificing technique.

[-] gl0rfind3l 6 Points 9 months ago

I have never read or heard a strength & conditioning coach make a distinction between volume and work.

[-] GayLubeOil 1 Point 9 months ago

That formula is the basis of kinesiology. Hopefully now you can understand why that formula is a better model of work. If you disagree what is your formula?

[-] HBenedek38 10 Points 9 months ago

Never take training advice from a man who takes steroids. Unless of course you do them too. It's way different.

[-] GayLubeOil 8 Points 9 months ago

Steroid users go on and off cycle so they know both systems. This whole thread is a beta rationalizion extravaganza to do less work and have easier workouts

[-] the_trout_hunter 4 Points 9 months ago

Ive always loved redpill but every time I see one of your comments I slap my forehead because you're fucking pathetic man.

[-] GayLubeOil 10 Points 9 months ago

Oh look not an argument

[-] Joshua_Pectorals -23 Point 9 months ago

I've been lifting for 2 years and can say OPs advice doesn't suck. How about we post our physiques to see who's advice really sucks

[-] [deleted] 9 months ago
[-] [deleted] 9 months ago
[-] Rand2024 6 Points 9 months ago

Ah the age old adage "talk shit post pic"

[-] Casd12 5 Points 9 months ago

If you can't provide evidence then it's just an unproven hypothesis

[-] [deleted] 9 months ago
[-] [deleted] 9 months ago
[-] xnesteax 6 Points 9 months ago

lmao that's dumb, your ego is showing

[-] verumvelfalsum 2 Points 9 months ago

Actually his ego is showing but that alone certainly doesn't discredit any point he tries to make. I just want to highlight that you've completed missed his point. I'll let the reader judge for themselves whose IQ is higher than whose.

[-] Joshua_Pectorals -4 Point 9 months ago

I'm proof that OPs advice doesn't suck willing to PROVE it doesn't, meanwhile this guy comes in here literally just saying it sucks with no evidence, no pic. And this is dumb according to you. The IQ in this thread is showing

[-] gl0rfind3l 3 Points 9 months ago

You can't judge the quality of a training program by the size and definition of a person's physique. Modern bodybuilders are insanely huge and well defined, but their training and diet are shit and they take mind-boggling amounts of steroids. Even if you take out the steroids you still have to take genetics into account. Some will require the best possible muscle building program to grow, while others, those genetically gifted, will grow on pretty much any program.

[-] mental_models 1 Point 9 months ago

Unfortunately cognitive bias causes most people believe that you can, which is why outliers are used in marketing.

[-] Casd12 0 Points 9 months ago

You can't judge the quality of a guys game by the amount of bitches he gets.

This is you. You sound like this. Please re-adjust your logic

[-] gl0rfind3l 1 Point 9 months ago

Well it's sort of difficult to determine the quality of a man's game by the number of bitches he gets if the dude is a 10/10 super stud who has to merely glance at a woman to ger her in bed.

[-] Casd12 1 Point 9 months ago

Using outliers to reaffirm your point does the opposite

[-] gl0rfind3l 1 Point 9 months ago

It serves to show that there is more than one factor that determines the end result and because of that you cannot claim that the end result is determined solely by the factor that you choose to focus on.

[-] Casd12 1 Point 9 months ago

I'm using averages you're using outliers

[-] mallardcove -26 Point 9 months ago

Yet, instead of explaining why my advice sucks, you seemed to omit that part.

[-] DangerStrudel 102 Points 9 months ago

Because you can’t build muscle properly with fifteen seconds of rest. You can not recover and thus won’t be able to lift enough weight to induce hypertrophy. This becomes more burnout conditioning than anything else.

If you ego lift, you lower the weight until you can properly do the exercise and reps required. You don’t go crazy. There are other ways to build confidence in the gym than wheezing away and wasting your time.

[-] Casd12 -5 Point 9 months ago

It takes days for your muscle to recover. Thinking your muscles are building itself within 15 seconds of rest? Lol

[-] DangerStrudel 14 Points 9 months ago

Can you lift 85% of your 1RM again after fifteen seconds of rest? No. That’s what I’m saying.

[-] Casd12 -3 Point 9 months ago

Your strength deteriorates no matter the rest time. It might deteriorate faster with shorter rest periods, but the intensity has also increased.

[-] HBenedek38 0 Points 9 months ago

Intensity doesn't build muscle and strength, hypertrophy does.

[-] Casd12 5 Points 9 months ago

Bruh do you even know what hypertrophy means? Its something that's achieved. It's not a input. You achieve hypertrophy by working out. If your workout isn't intense, then you ain't building any mass.

Saying hypertrophy builds muscle is like saying having a belly full of food will give you calories. It's not an input, it's an result of an input. An input would be eating food.

[-] HBenedek38 2 Points 9 months ago

Bruh do you even know what hypertrophy means? Its something that's achieved. It's not a input. You achieve hypertrophy by working out.

No. Hypertrophy is the enlargement of cells, in this case, muscle fibers, though the increase od sarcoplasmic elements and myofibrilla. This occurs when you progressively overload the muscle at different levels of stress.

"Intensity" implies increase in quickness of repetitions, which has remarkably little effect on hypertrophy, and often it is a negative effect if anything.

Saying hypertrophy builds muscle is like saying having a belly full of food will give you calories.

So... It's true?

It's not an input, it's an result of an input.

Yes, the input is working in the 2-6 rep range (sacoplasmic elements, progressive overload) or the 8-12 rep range (myofibrilla, bodybuilding workout). Nome of these are meant to be intense.

[-] Casd12 1 Point 9 months ago

I'm not referring intensity to quickness of repetitions, I'm referring to additional time your muscle is under strain.

[-] tyronethejabrone -17 Point 9 months ago

Your muscles simply contract and relax. Lower weight allows a longer, more in control, contraction. And by the tail end of this 8x8, your muscles would think you were lifting a max weight.

Also, your muscles don’t need as much recovery as you’ve been led to believe.

[-] Rand2024 18 Points 9 months ago

Not the same stresses involved, at actual max weight your skeletal structure and ligaments as well as central nervous system are stimulated differently

[-] tyronethejabrone 4 Points 9 months ago

Yeah and that will consequently make you stronger. But as far as hypertrophy, from personal experience, hitting muscle groups more frequently and with shorter rests is your best bet.

[-] mallardcove 4 Points 9 months ago

It's called time under tension

[-] dongpal 17 Points 9 months ago

Your muscles are either contracted or relaxed. Lower weight allows a longer, more in control, contraction. And by the tail end of this 8x8, your muscles would think you were lifting a max weight.

lol inb4 doing 10kg squats

Ive never read so much bullshit in 3 sentences. Your muslces will not think you are lifting max weight because you did reduce rep pause lmao

[-] KusaiSakana 7 Points 9 months ago

Ya this really all is bull shit. You guys sound like my high school weight training coach. If you’re trying to build muscle do less reps, more weight. But don’t do too much weight and look like a retard in the gym, nobody ever thinks you look cool nor do they care how much you’re lifting. Personally I only notice people if they’ve got crazy good form regardless of the weight they’re lifting.

The 8X8 thing is stupid, you’re not going to build nearly as much muscle doing that as say a 5X4 and your body doesn’t get “tricked” into thinking weight is heavier, it’s just fatigued by the time you get to the last reps and your muscles are so torn at that point that they can’t lift anything else. As Tim Ferris said, “anything over 5 reps is cardio”

[-] tyronethejabrone 3 Points 9 months ago

Tim Ferriss isn’t that big

[-] KusaiSakana 1 Point 9 months ago

Tim Ferris built 30 pounds of muscle in a month by doing low reps high weight. Just because you’re not 200+ pounds doesn’t mean you’re small. Look up his progress, he lays out the entire journey from I think it was 150 lbs —> 180 lbs in a month. I also went from 145 lbs —> 185 lbs in two months by using his methods, so I can vouch for it.

To be fair I started from ground zero, I was basically skin and bone, didn’t eat much, and never worked out. But 40 lbs in 2 months was amazing regardless.

[-] tyronethejabrone 1 Point 9 months ago

Looked it up, seems legit. That’s pretty crazy.

But are you really lifting heavy if the positive and negative phases of every rep are each 5 seconds?

[-] KusaiSakana 1 Point 9 months ago

At first, no. Your muscles will adapt to the new type of tear over time and you’ll get more used to it. Plus slow reps are much more effective than explosive if you’re trying to focus on a certain muscle group. With Tim’s program I’m pretty sure he was only working out 2-3 times a week and did full body exercises, and he’d get them over with within 30 minutes.

It’s honestly all about what you eat during your routine though, you won’t build shit if you’re only putting down 2000 calories a day.

[-] mallardcove -1 Point 9 months ago

> f you’re trying to build muscle do less reps, more weight.


That's how you build strength, not muscle. Strength is simply an adaptation of the nervous system. To build muscle tissue, you have to go the hypertrophy route.

[-] KusaiSakana 2 Points 9 months ago

Not true. The way muscles adapt to carry more weight is by growing in size, which is why when you tear your muscles by lifting heavier weight, they come back bigger to be able to lift the amount you were attempting during your last workout easier. The body adapts to whatever you put it through.

Hypertrophy is for cutting, you gain the size then you cut by doing higher reps lower weight.

[-] tyronethejabrone 1 Point 9 months ago

Then why are you considerably worse at benching if you don’t bench for two weeks?

Queue the: “My bench doesn’t really drop bro.”

It’s heavily neurological.

[-] KusaiSakana 1 Point 9 months ago

Haha I know you just made fun of it but my bench won’t drop unless I stop for a month or so. Everybody’s body’s work different though, my brother for example can not lift for a year, then come back and be at the same weight he was lifting a year prior after two sessions.

I don’t think it’s very neurological... maybe like a 10 extra lb. difference with the right mindset but nothing significant.

[-] Jake_le_Dog 1 Point 9 months ago


The cutoff is at around 4-6 reps, where sarcoplasmic hypertrophy begins to take precedence. I've lifted on keto while adapting to it before, and experienced premature failure at around the 5th rep because of the metabolic stress.

Although maybe arguable, you supposedly gain denser muscle tissue around the 5-6 rep range, which might take longer overall, but looks a lot better in my opinion.

I understand the appeal of size gains, it's the reason I don't exclusively lift in the 1-4 rep range, but from a merely hormonal pov it looks to me like lifting heavy is the way to go. Once in a while a 20rep set is due to sweeten the deal.

[-] tyronethejabrone 1 Point 9 months ago

But they will. Just ask them

[-] dongpal 2 Points 9 months ago

I cant believe there are people out there who believe this shit.

[-] tyronethejabrone 0 Points 9 months ago

I’m not out here squatting 10 kg but in doing higher volume, the ladder reps will be more difficult and require more stress

[-] dongpal 1 Point 9 months ago

which, in the end, will still not result the same stress as high weights. you cannot fake it.

[-] tyronethejabrone 0 Points 9 months ago

High weights will not match the stress of slightly fatiguing a muscle (isolation exercise), then doing a corresponding compound lift at a lighter weight for higher reps.

Ex) doing leg extensions and then proceeding to do squats at a lighter weight than you would’ve, had you not done the leg extensions. Better engages supporting muscles and better works the entirety of the legs.

You’re welcome.

[-] Kurokaffe 5 Points 9 months ago

Cheat curls have their place as well as other cheat movements. Break past the harder portion of the strength curve, and hold the negative on the way down. Negative training is backed up with tons of research to have a really strong positive effect on hypertrophy.

[-] mallardcove 4 Points 9 months ago

The problem is that cheat curls are an actual lift. A lot of people turn their barbell curls into cheat curls when ego lifting and do not bother with the slow negative on the way down.

[-] aherrns 1 Point 9 months ago

I am curious too.

[-] logicalthinker1 76 Points 9 months ago

Do not do this.

The most important part of lifting is showing up.

The second most important part is progressive overload. Learn the movements and then stress your muscles with low rep, high weight sets.

[-] RedPillpls 17 Points 9 months ago

The broscience is strong in this thread. Building muscle and strength is a multifaceted thing and there is a continuum of rep ranges and intensity percentages that build muscle/strength/endurance etc

Following the advice of old school legends consistently will probably produce some kind of results, but a lot more is known about building muscle and strength now then 40 years ago

Best advice - read/watch information from people like Eric Helms, Jeff Nippad the natural bodybuilding subreddit and find a legitimate routine focusing on developing compound lifts and smaller isolation movements by progressive overload in combination with good form and nutrition for either weight loss/gaining weight

[-] furcryingoutloud 14 Points 9 months ago

Upvoted. Anything else is cardio.

[-] logicalthinker1 3 Points 9 months ago

And that's ok if you're training for endurance sports or something. But if you're looking to build muscle and strength, you NEED to overload your muscles.

[-] furcryingoutloud 0 Points 9 months ago

Workouts differ greatly and depend very much on what the goals are and metabolism, genetics and overall health. No two people are alike, workouts should be prepared by people who know their shit. Form is more important than anything else. Which is something I agree with OP on.

But yes, for growth, you need to lift heavy and with lower reps. You won't get much hypertrophy with low weights high reps. No hypertrophy, no muscle growth. Again, if your form is off, you're wasting your time.

[-] logicalthinker1 1 Point 9 months ago

I mean you're technically wrong about form. If you have bad form and still workout a ton, you'll see some results. But you will be far from maximizing your time in the gym and you severely risk injury. It's insane how many jacked old guys I see who are doing exercises that i don't even know where the fuck they learned it. But they've probably been doing it for decades so it will eventually get you results.

[-] TheDicDoc 0 Points 9 months ago

explain how people in prison get jacked doing thousands of pushups a week, explain why guys that do body weight exercises on the yard are jacked to shit, CONSISTENCY!

[-] furcryingoutloud 1 Point 9 months ago

explain how people in prison get jacked doing thousands of pushups a week

You explain it. Cause it's not true. Prisoners who are jacked are using the weights available in the yard. A million push ups is not going to get you jacked. You'll get lean and strong, but will gain very little growth.

Don't argue with me, show me. Do pushups and whatever else bakes your cake for 6 months, then show me how jacked you are. There's a reason why weights were invented, and it wasn't so we could brag about how much we lift.

[-] TheDicDoc 1 Point 9 months ago

not every prison has weights smart ass, how you do pushups can maximize potential. their are literally dozens of ways to do them to increase muscle size of groups

[-] furcryingoutloud 1 Point 9 months ago

Says a 20 year old who's been to (zero?) prisons and has not been able to provide any proof that pushups are muscle builders beyond a certain point. Talk to me when you're older and slightly more knowledgeable, or maybe when you can provide some proof other than what you see in video games.

Here's another small piece of advice. A redpill man respects other men until disrespected. If you can't show respect for other men, that tells me you have none for yourself. The worst thing a man can ever do is believe he knows everything, that's exactly the point where he ceases to learn.

[-] Truedemocracy4 1 Point 9 months ago

Nope. I used to do and lead boot camp classes on the reg. I could do 100 continuos pushups, but I wasn’t big and could barely bench 200. It helps with endurance and some strength if you’re untrained, but unless you really really know what you’re doing you ain’t building muscle that way

[-] [deleted] 14 Points 9 months ago


[-] logicalthinker1 2 Points 9 months ago

Absolutely. The most I'll do in a non-warm up set is like 7 reps.

[-] Imperator_Red 1 Point 9 months ago

Exactly. I'm at 4-6 reps most of the time for my main lifts and 6-10 for my secondaries. Every once in a while I'll throw in a low weight high rep day and do 6-8 reps on my main lifts, and I also mix in cross-training/crossfit type workouts. If you want to get big, lift heavy weights.

[-] Truedemocracy4 1 Point 9 months ago

8 is the sweet spot for me. I personally think 5 is too few, as a lot of people will sacrifice form if they can only get 5 reps off.

[-] mallardcove 2 Points 9 months ago

The second most important part is progressive overload. Learn the movements and then stress your muscles with low rep, high weight sets.

For strength training, maybe.

[-] HBenedek38 5 Points 9 months ago

For strength training, maybe.

Well, what fucking else do you want to do? 8x8 with 15 sec rests will be heavily cardio intensive, meaning you'll burn muscle, meaning you won't build muscle, and you won't increase strength due to hypertrophy. So what the fuck is your program good for?

[-] Chain---Male 2 Points 9 months ago

There are benefits to low rep high weight and vice versa and lots of rep schemes in between. Educate your self

[-] logicalthinker1 1 Point 9 months ago

Unless you're preparing for a "most bench presses of the bar in 10 minutes" competition, you aren't going anything

[-] Chain---Male 1 Point 9 months ago


You have a lot to learn.

[-] reluctantly_red 1 Point 9 months ago

The most important part of lifting is showing up.

Exactly!!! There is no magic formula. Workout hard for a couple of years and you'll see results. If you're not using steroids your results are unlikely to be spectacular but they can still be decent. Just remember to stay lean -- you can't out run your fork.

[-] RedPilledGodEmperor 1 Point 9 months ago

Yes. Low rep, high weight sets is the way to go. My body looks so much better and I have gotten very strong since I started doing this in college. Led to big gains.

[-] ChrimsonChin988 0 Points 9 months ago

I used to lift heavy. 6-12 reps. It's fun until you get an injury, can't lift for 6 months and the injury never fully recovers. Yes, low reps get you the fastest results indeed but slow and steady wins the race my friend. Nowadays I go for 12-20 reps, it doesn't build muscle as fast but with proper training and diet I'll still get big with little risk of injury.

[-] Whisper 46 Points 9 months ago

What you left out here is an explanation of what this program is intended to do.

Most people who lift seriously are not interested in going to the gym and fucking around, or in panting and sweating for the hell of it. Training is intended to produce measurable progress towards a goal over time.

So what particular adaptation is this program optimized for?

[-] mallardcove 13 Points 9 months ago

I've read a lot of Gironda's old work through his scanned PDFs, and he himself claims its not going to build strength. He does claim it adds muscle through hypertrophy, with the hypertrophy created through maximizing volume in a short time window, as well as burning fat and cardiovascular health. Gironda never suggested it to be a permanent program, but to run it for 6 weeks or so to "shock" your system.

I also didn't even mention the Gironda "Maximum Definition" Steak & Eggs diet, which I adhered to when doing this program over the 6 weeks.

[-] Svenrolic 7 Points 9 months ago

This feels like an important bit of information. Most of your results in any scenario will reflect your diet more than the lifting plan you're on.

[-] u-r-silly 1 Point 9 months ago

Isn't this supposed to be the opposite? High reps building higher density fibers so strength instead of muscle volume? You don't see climbers or tennis players with huge muscles.

[-] [deleted] 9 months ago
[-] empatheticapathetic 1 Point 9 months ago

I do yoga and it’s a lot of pushups and other body weight stuff at a high frequency. This has changed my physique more than all the strength training I do.

[For the record I was never focusing on physique until I got to some lifts I set myself a long time ago and still working towards those]

[-] bonusoopsie 1 Point 9 months ago

The dude was also against drinking water during workouts, once kicked a dude out of his gym for doing crunches. He has a lot of brosciency stuff to be honest.

[-] TheStoicCrane 10 Points 9 months ago

It's garbage for building strength. At optimal 8 reps should be done at 80% RPM. At that weight muscles require at least 2-3 minutes to recover. At 15 secs recovery you might as well stop lifting and leave the gym because 1.) at optimal weight in that range for muscle stimulation you'll hit failure long before making it to 8 sets on 15 secs of rest without gear and 2.) reps will become so sloppy it'll defeat the purpose of the exercise.

My recommendation is to learn your RPMs and corresponding rep ranges and use progressive overload at 80-85% RPM at 5 sets of 6 and keep clapping on 5-10lbs of weight each week for strength. If you don't hit 5x6 at a present weight repeat the following week until you do. Wait 5 mins minimum before each set so the Central Nervous System can not only recover from shock but go into overshoot that it can give you more strength with each successive set. I went from 274lbs Bench to 294lbs 1 RPM within a month with this method. For power. For definition 5x12 at 70% RPM is more than good for aesthetics. OP has no idea what he's doing or advising.

[-] abstractplebbit 4 Points 9 months ago

Increase your vo2 max and therefore overall cardiomuscular endurance.

You can later lift higher weights with less rest.

It also optimizes for aesthetics

The psychological stress the routine involves alone is enough to generate muscle growth but it strengthens the mind as well

Overall Muscle definition is optimized because this routine emphasizes absolute perfection of form - which means you’re targeting every available muscle fibre in the target muscle group

[-] scissor_me_timbers00 1 Point 9 months ago

How does psychological stress induce muscle growth?

[-] abstractplebbit 3 Points 9 months ago

The more you can tolerate the harder you lift and the harder you try in pretty much every way.

This carries over into your normal routine and in life as well

If it is absent from your training then that’s a really good sign that you’re not working hard enough to give your body a reason to grow

The only thing that’s going to convince you of anything is to try it for yourself for 4-8 weeks

The workouts are brutal but if you do it in between cycles of whatever program you were already doing you will go back to lifting those same weights or more with better form and decreased rest between sets naturally. If that doesn’t demonstrate improved strength then idk what you’re looking for

[-] GayLubeOil -7 Point 9 months ago

Building muscle through high volume.

[-] dusara217 9 Points 9 months ago

This workout program will reduce overall volume by reducing the amount of weight that can be lifted with good form. There is a reason that 1-3 minutes of rest are recommended by virtually every good coach out there. Virtually every study on the matter indicates that in order to maximize overall volume (weight x reps) with good form, you have to have sufficient rest between sets.

[-] inbredostrptw 34 Points 9 months ago

Another thing that works is following a strict program with steady increments in weight. Then when you get to a weight you can’t lift, you fail in front of everyone. You shouldn’t be tempted to ego lift because you’re following a program and failing a lift in front of people is as bad as it gets from an ego perspective (which is not at all really).

[-] papunigga031 3 Points 9 months ago

Progressive overload.

[-] liberty1127 1 Point 9 months ago

That's why you use rpe to auto regulate your programming so you don't fail. I've failed maybe 2 reps in the last year and a half when I first started training again

[-] inbredostrptw 2 Points 9 months ago

I don’t see failing as a bad thing, it just tells me where my limit is at the time

[-] liberty1127 1 Point 9 months ago

Failing is unneeded training stress. If you were to fail regularly you could be using that energy to recover instead. Learn rpe to determine where your 1rm is without actually doing it unless in a competition

[-] _teh_overloard -14 Point 9 months ago

you dont need to increase weight. you could do the exact same workout with the same volume for 8 weeks and i bet youd still see results. people are always quick to add weight but its not necesary.

[-] dusara217 10 Points 9 months ago

youd still see results

You would see results for the first couple of of weeks right before they dropped off a cliff.

[-] [deleted] 9 months ago
[-] blacklightsleaze 1 Point 9 months ago

You will see results only if you are newbie. But if you are newbie you will see results on almost every program you choose, even the dumbest one.

[-] _teh_overloard 1 Point 9 months ago

no. i am definintely not a n00b. also i was told this advice by a US national gymnastics coach in relationship to somebody who was competing for the US in gymnastics who was training on the same program for over a year. Gains were made

[-] poopdeck 27 Points 9 months ago

8x8 with 15s rest? Do you even lift bro?

If you aint doin 2000x2000 with 1s rest you don't lift bros

[-] MOSFETBJT 13 Points 9 months ago

Nah Bro. You gotta do exp(25) reps with 10^-3 nanoseconds of rest

[-] nofaprecommender 7 Points 9 months ago

Bruh, what are you doing with all that rest time—taking a nap? Anything more than the Planck time is just frippery.

[-] Rainmaker90 7 Points 9 months ago

Man you guys are talking out of your ass. Everybody knows you should never rest, or you'll go full catabolic.


As far as workout regime: it's all about muscle confusion for maximum gains bro. I go to the gym thinking I'm about to do 8x8 squats, but before my muscles knows what's going on I'm over at the bench doing 3x5. Muscles have no idea what's going on. Guaranteed to make crazy gains, and kill ego lifting.

[-] FOMM23 24 Points 9 months ago

Or just run a normal program and don't ego lift?

Not saying that low weight, high rep work doesn't have it's place. But if someone ego lifts, doing 8 sets in quick succession isn't going to help, they're simply going to put too much weight on and do sets 3-8 with rubbish form.

Most ego lifters don't realise they ego lift!

[-] mental_models 1 Point 9 months ago

Or just run Dick Brohammer's Fast-Under-Control-Kettlebell

if you want to stop being beta

[-] The_BitterTruth 22 Points 9 months ago

>Your ego will quickly be crushed with this workout program.

While writing from an egocentric point of view

[-] Casd12 -5 Point 9 months ago

Doesnt invalidate his point

[-] mental_models 3 Points 9 months ago

why the downvote, wasn't mutually exclusive

[-] Don_Himself 11 Points 9 months ago

ego lifting is doing these types of programs as a cheap way to avoid heavy lifting.


get your squat to at least 400 to 500 lbs, deadlift to 500 to 600lbs and bench to at least 315 before switching over to bro routines.

[-] mooksno 2 Points 9 months ago

nah if your goal is aesthetics start with the bro routine from day one

[-] Don_Himself 1 Point 9 months ago

more strength = more muscle

just watch what you eat, i.e. avoid too much carb + fats combo and also fast, and you'll keep your body fat around 10% (ideal)

[-] mooksno 1 Point 9 months ago

Nah carbs or fats are irrelevant. If you’re under your tdee you’ll lose weight if you’re over you’ll gain weight.

More strength doesn’t mean more muscle

[-] Don_Himself 2 Points 9 months ago

More strength doesn’t mean more muscle

youve spread fake news

Nah carbs or fats are irrelevant

you will gain much more fat on a 4000kcal diet that consists of mostly carb+fat than you would on a 4000kcal diet with 0 carbs, 40% protein and 60% fats. Fact.

calories do not matter in weight gain/loss, only macro ratios and feeding window (i.e. fasting)

[-] mooksno 1 Point 9 months ago

that is absolutely complete bullshit. weight gain weight loss is calories in v calories out. that's it. please educate yourself

[-] Don_Himself 1 Point 9 months ago

you read that from the same people who say seed oils, refined sugars and soy are good for you, and that red meat is bad.

there is a red pill for all facets of life and youre 100% plugged into the fitness/diet matrix.

6000kcal of clean quality protein and some healthy fat will NOT get you as fat or fatter than a diet that consists of even just 5000ckal of shit carbs+fat will. that shitty 5000kcal will absolutely get you fatter. give it a try.

it's al about quality of calories and ratios.

i tried this myself and ballooned up to 230lbs at ~20% BF with 5000 total carb+fat diet. then switched to 6000kcal no carb, mostly protein an a bit of fat and slimmed down to 190ish, 10% BF. exercise plan more or less the same. added IF 16hrs daily.

quality macros is king.

[-] mooksno 1 Point 9 months ago

6000 cals will make you fat regardless of macro breakdown of carbs and fat.

Your problem wasn't carbs or fats it was not getting enough protein, the rest is pretty much meaningless

No matrix, all of this is scientifically proven and verifiable

[-] Don_Himself 1 Point 9 months ago

I eat an average of 6000kcal daily and im around 10% body fat 190. calories in vs calorie out has been debunked for years now. the real factor in body mass gain/loss is the combination of carbs+fat, or lack. has a lot to do with insulin sensitivity and unused energy (carbs) being stored much easier and fat being burned less efficiently as a result.

so essentially comes down to carb's calories in vs energy/calories burned.

if you want to gain fat, eat a lot more carbs+fats more frequently. and if you want to lose weight rapidly, avoid carbs + eat less frequently (Fasting).

[-] mooksno 1 Point 9 months ago

I like how you said “want to lose weight? Then eat less frequently”



[-] yttanx 1 Point 9 months ago

I think that guy is either high af or never made it past 10th grade. Has no idea wtf he's talking about.

[-] mooksno 1 Point 9 months ago

Right? What the hell was that?

[-] yttanx 1 Point 9 months ago

Stop talking out of your ass you sound ridiculous.

[-] Don_Himself 1 Point 9 months ago

Im done trying to enlighten you retards, hopefully the people who've DM'd me asking for advice have done so in good faith and have learned something.

if you dont buy what i say, and dont believe my fitness journey, thats cool.

go follow PD Mangan and Ted Naimen on twitter and go through their years of work, which is what Im citing since they are (along with Dr Baker) the only red pill health doctors out right now who do not plug any supplements or blue pill BS. their studies is what i based my diet and exercise around and me as well as thousands others have seen amazing results from their proven guidelines.

now off to deadlift and eat 12 eggs

[-] blacklightsleaze 1 Point 9 months ago

aesthetics depends on your muscle insertions and your overall bone structure, doesn't matter that much what training style you choose

[-] mooksno 1 Point 9 months ago

finally someone talking sense

[-] [deleted] 9 months ago
[-] Thotwrecker 1 Point 9 months ago

This is excessive; I used to think like this, but there's no real magic that happens when you can deadlift 500 or bench 315. After you learn the nuts and bolts of doing compound lifts with good form, and you're adhering to a reasonable strength routine for your experience level, you should add in volume in the aesthetic areas you want to work on.

A novice doing starting strength can absolutely add on 3x10 curls, tricep extensions, calf press, and a few sets of supplementary abs work, for example. This will, over a year, leave him in far more aesthetic shape than the guy just doing SS.

Your body responds really well to hypertrophy work even if you're not squatting 500.

[-] Don_Himself 1 Point 9 months ago

adding all that extra work is only going to slow down your progress for the main lifts, and should only be left when you reach advance levels/strength routine (think 5x5 Stronglifts advanced).

You will not have any soul left to do anything else once 400lbs+ first starts kicking your ass.

[-] Thotwrecker 1 Point 9 months ago

Reaching an advanced level of strength training is A) a sport at that point, only vaguely related to maximizing SMV. And B) it's ~2 years out.

In those 2 years before you're average joe becomes an "advanced strength athlete", they could have fully recomped their body already.

Basically, the logic of "get advanced strength lifts before even thinking about bodybuilding routines" is silly, because that point in time is 2 years out. In that time, you could have had drastically better aesthetic development by doing more volume.

I used to think exactly how you did on this -- and if your goal is to be an advanced strength athlete, then absolutely, your method is best. If you're trying to recomp your body in 1 year to slingshot your SMV from a 6 to a 9, work in significant hypertrophy work.

It will absolutely slow down your strength progress, which is fine, because dudes are impressed by your strength numbers, and attractive women want to fuck guys who have the best shoulder-to-waist ratio and muscle mass in a few key areas.

[-] Don_Himself 1 Point 9 months ago

achieving an advanced bench, deadlift and squat is the only way to naturally achieve the golden ratios of the male body. everything else is ACCESSORY to HELPING these main compound lifts.

more strength is more muscle. period.

all of your favorite bodybuilders that sell you their shit got big & strong first via lifitng heavy for far more than 2 years. even arnold was strong before he became a bodybuilder.

[-] Imperator_Red 1 Point 9 months ago

but there's no real magic that happens when you can deadlift 500 or bench 315.

There's no magic. Your're just really strong and really big and really attractive to girls.

[-] Thotwrecker 1 Point 9 months ago

Your're just really strong and really big and really attractive to girls.

Sure. But the most efficient way to put on muscle mass and "look good to girls" is not to become an advanced or even intermediate strength athlete. You can look better in a shorter amount of time if you're getting in appropriate volume along and following a hybrid program, especially as a novice with the capability to put on a good 25 lbs of muscle mass their first year.

This dude is saying "don't think about bodybuilding / bro hypertrophy until you are squatting 600" which is ridiculous. If you take two novices and one guy does a novice strength routine like SS for a year, and another guy does an old fashioned BB routine, like Arnold's beginner routine in his BB bible, and they both give it their all and eat the same diet, the latter guy will look better by the end of the year.

Strength train if you want to strength train. But if you're trying to maximize your SMV, add volume and hypertrophy work from the get-go -- don't wait until you hit some strength bros magic number to "unlock" the ability to do some bicep curls.

[-] papunigga031 8 Points 9 months ago

Your body CANNOT build muscle on 15 seconds of rest. 8 reps is within the ideal range, but without proper rest between sets, the work you are doing is more cardiovascular than anything else.

[-] Casd12 1 Point 9 months ago

Muscles aren't grown in 15 seconds, they take days to recover to their ideal condition (depending on how hard you workout.)

[-] boywonder200 4 Points 9 months ago

Dude, you've posted this repeatedly in this thread and you are just dead wrong or misunderstanding the point. Muscle contraction requires ATP. The whole point of rest in between sets is to let your ATP stores replenish enough to allow you to do another effective set.

That is the reasoning behind taking creatine. Loading your body with creatine provides a surplus of substrate for ATP formation. Creatine donates the phosphate group needed to convert ADP back to ATP.

[-] Casd12 1 Point 9 months ago

Just a misunderstanding. You said build muscle in 15 seconds, when it should've said replenish it's atp.

[-] Tosma00 5 Points 9 months ago

I've spent 30 seconds in that thread and it hurt my head.

Yes you can build very decent mass with low resting time. This is the whole basis of DC training and myoreps. Go tell Dante Trudel that it doesn't build mass nor strength.

Second, the most important thing is not rep ranges, at all. It is overall volume and quality of work (and of course, proper nutrition).

That 8x8 is ok to try if you like to train that way, just like GVT. But it won't work that well (if at all), especially if you have poor genetics/recovery. You'll be crushed.

But OP is right that this can work for some, and very well . It was Serge Nubret philosophy (doesn't mean it's efficient, and he was on a lot of steroids). And ego lifting is indeed a problem : if you are doing good morning instead of squat because it's too heavy, or bench half rom, you are only embarassing yourself. Light weights can be good , some myoreps variation also take 25-30 of your RM, ending within the weights OP talked about.

Also I'm gonna be honest. If you are an average male and couldn't bench 2 plates, squat 3 within one year of training, you have followed a poor routine , didn't eat like you should have, or have an hormonal problem (low testosterone, dht... which should be adressed for your well being).

If you have no clue where to start, I can suggest :

- Layne norton's PHAT routine. The first I did and I box squatted 3 plates within 6 weeks of lifting, 3-4 inches below parallel. Hypertrophy and strength with very visible gains. It is however, very taxing. There are better routines for a beginner but I loved it.

-Some simple and efficient routine like Stan efferding would recommend, google it a bit.

- . An excellent compromise, and the best way to start lifting IMO. Read this if you want to learn the basics of a good program and some elementary nutrition. It only lacks a bit of glutes work (like barbell hip thrust)

-Stopanni's shortcut to size works REALLY well for size. You can get around 8-12kg of lean mass in a year if you are a beginner.

-Greg nuckols has good beginner routine for strength emphasis (but legit hypertrophy). Some people get "fried" lifting that heavy tough (6x3 range).

-Don't do the starting strength meme. Except if you care only about strength. You'll get quite strong very fast, but upper body will most likely look like shit (which is normal, you are hitting PR on 3 sets every other day ! you can't have 20-30 reps a lift every session, but 15).

[-] RedPillpls 2 Points 9 months ago

Praise someone else who knows something about lifting, there are several very good sources of information that can be found by people like Greg Nuckols

-Eric Helms, Jeff Nippard, Omar Isuf are just some names that can be found on YouTube

[-] [deleted] 9 months ago
[-] Rainmaker90 5 Points 9 months ago

A better fix to the problem you're adressing would be telling people to learn how to use proper form, with proper weight, rather adopting some shitty brocience regime.

[-] SemperPrimus 5 Points 9 months ago

I admit I ego lift sometimes. Well just try to push myself too much really. I don't think it's a horrible thing. Todays ego lift is tomorrows normal lift.

[-] [deleted] 9 months ago
[-] GayLubeOil 4 Points 9 months ago

The Red Pill is packed with with insecure betas who ego identify with how much they lift. This goes double for married Red Pill. I can start posting pics of their beer dad bods, but if I do that the crying will never end.

Ego cucks hate high volume because it means their numbers are smaller. But volume lifting is how all bodybuilders train.

[-] whatdidshewrite 10 Points 9 months ago

High volume and low volume both have their respective place

[-] MarcosDomingues 7 Points 9 months ago

This just proves that you have 0 knowledge about general strength training.

If you want to build muscle you need progressive overload, and that doesn't just come in low reps, you have to do high volume too to break through plateaus, but not in the way OP is describing which is just pointlessly burning out on every exercise you can think of.

If you're lifting the same as you did 6 months ago I can guarantee you did not build any muscle, thats just how it works.

[-] mallardcove 2 Points 9 months ago

Progressive overload isn't only measured by weight.

Progressive Overload can happen in 3 ways: Higher weight, shorter rest, or more reps.

[-] GayLubeOil -1 Point 9 months ago

High volume routines can also have progressive overload. Explian to to me how high volume precludes progressive overload.

[-] MarcosDomingues 2 Points 9 months ago

I literally just said that you needed both rep ranges, because if you only do high reps you are going to be stuck at the same weight for years. If you want to make progress on any lift you have to be specific as well, you can't just throw 20 different exercises into your routine and expect to make progress on any of them, you can't get away with that unless you're still novice (which both OP and you probably are).

[-] SeasonedRP 2 Points 9 months ago

The aim of something like 8x8 or numerous other high intensity techniques is to break through plateaus. Few bodybuilders use them exclusively (Mike Mentzer comes to mind as an exception). They instead use them when progress has stalled or a particular bodypart is lagging, and typically for a short period of time. In the off season, some high level powerlifters would incorporate these kinds of techniques as a break from heavy weights.

[-] TheStoicCrane 1 Point 9 months ago

Learn your RPMs for each lift and train accordingly. For instance 294lbs Bench the RPM at 80% is 235lbs. 80% RPM = around 8reps to failure so a good lift at this range would be 3-4 sets of 8. The higher the RPM % the less reps. The lower the RPM% the more reps. With this info programs can be modeled to tailor to specific strength ranges.

8x8 at 80% which is optimal RPM is severely impractical and overtraining.

[-] TheStoicCrane 1 Point 9 months ago

Overload can be applied but if a person is using optimal weight at this range which is 80% RPM they'd be retarded to. If they were legitimately training at optimal range they wouldn't make it to the 8th set unless they spent a sizable portion of their workout time on a single lift.

8x8 is really impractical. Doesn't build strength efficiently since it's overtraining (at optimal) doesn't define nearly as well as a 5x12 workout at 70% RPM. No point to it in my eyes, besides ego-lifting.

[-] AreOut 2 Points 9 months ago

some people (like me) are secure enough with how we look and just like to be strong (and fast), I do sets of 5-10 reps and take couple of minutes rest between

the most important thing is that I am smiling when I finish my training ;)

[-] GayLubeOil 0 Points 9 months ago

That's called hedonist morality. You gain validation not from the result of the work but from your feelings about the work. It's both infantile and Femanine.

[-] mallardcove 1 Point 9 months ago

I did low volume high weight programs like Lean Gains and Jim Wendler 531 bullshit for 2 years and wondered why I still looked like a cancer patient after cutting despite 2 years of lifting on those programs. It's because those programs are all about strength, not size. When I finally started to switch over to higher volume, lower weight hypertrophy focused routines, what do you know I started to finally see progress in the mirror.

Yeah I might not be able to one rep max as much as I used to but so the fuck what? What is the point of having a good one rep max? So you can lift it once every 8 weeks or so? I don't play football anymore so I don't need the power. I'd rather have a solid physique to impress women.

At my gym there is this group of guys who test their one rep max EVERY DAY.

[-] Sumsar01 2 Points 9 months ago

No. You kept being skinny because 531 is a shit program with to low volume and intensity for anything.

[-] HBenedek38 1 Point 9 months ago

It's because those programs are all about strength, not size.

So what you're saying is, you want to be a lump of useless muscles. That's a noble goal indeed.

[-] mallardcove 3 Points 9 months ago

I played football at the Division 1 level and was a part of a collegiate strength & conditioning program for 5 years. I was strong my senior year with impressive 1 rep maxes but I looked like shit. I've been on both ends and would much rather look good than be stronger.

I feel like in terms of TRP's mission of sexual strategy, its better to have an aesthetically pleasing physique at the expense of strength/one rep maxes than vice versa.

That's what the "just be as big as you can, bro, women only care about size" seem to miss. I see these "eternal bulkers" at the gym all the time, wearing shirts with cut off sleeves thinking they have massive arms. Yeah your arms might be "big" but most of it is fat.

Then on the flipside you have the skinny types who are low volume lifters. I was one of these for 2 years. I did the lean gains programs and 531 programs and all of those and while I got stronger, my physique was shit as I was too skinny and had no muscle definition.

When it comes to the mission of this sub, aesthetics > raw strength.

[-] HBenedek38 1 Point 9 months ago

I feel like in terms of TRP's mission of sexual strategy, its better to have an aesthetically pleasing physique at the expense of strength/one rep maxes than vice versa.

Then fucking say that, instead of spreading false information sprinkled with bullshit machismo like "your ego will be broken and you will stop ego lifting".

Both has its place, both should be a goal - you don't want to be an empty promise, and you don't want to be unimpressive either.

I see these "eternal bulkers" at the gym all the time, wearing shirts with cut off sleeves thinking they have massive arms. Yeah your arms might be "big" but most of it is fat.

Yeah, well, those are neither working for strength, nor physique - they are just lazy pieces of shit.

When it comes to the mission of this sub, aesthetics > raw strength.

When it comes to building your confidence, which I would say is as or more important than looks in many cases, then strength = aesthetics.

BTW you say you were D1. That MUST mean you took steroids. So how on earth did you have so poor of an understanding of training?

[-] mallardcove 2 Points 9 months ago

Both has its place, both should be a goal - you don't want to be an empty promise, and you don't want to be unimpressive either.

Which is why I said the 8x8 program is a short term program. I never run it more than 6 weeks every year. I never run any program for more than 6 weeks. I am always changing programs. I don't limit myself to high volume programs only.

BTW you say you were D1. That MUST mean you took steroids. So how on earth did you have so poor of an understanding of training?

This might be the dumbest correlation I have ever heard.

[-] HBenedek38 2 Points 9 months ago

Which is why I said the 8x8 program is a short term program. I never run it more than 6 weeks every year. I never run any program for more than 6 weeks. I am always changing programs. I don't limit myself to high volume programs only.

You might now, but beginner lifters are stupid. By giving them blanket advices that will not work long term you are essentially dooming them.

This might be the dumbest correlation I have ever heard

What part? Knowing about training and being a competitive athlete, or being a competitive athlete and taking roids?

[-] mallardcove 1 Point 9 months ago

I never took steroids in college, or ever. I was a wide receiver, I didn't need to be huge or powerful.

[-] 666Evo 1 Point 9 months ago

I did the lean gains programs and 531 programs and all of those and while I got stronger, my physique was shit as I was too skinny and had no muscle definition.

Same here. Just switched to a classic Pull/Push/Legs split and after a month can see and feel the difference. My deadlift and squat max has actually gone up but I can finally see some upper body definition.

[-] Thotwrecker 1 Point 9 months ago

Strength training is a tool, and an amazing tool, but aesthetics are everything. The looksmax incel faggots aren't wrong -- they are just whiny faggots.

[-] HBenedek38 1 Point 9 months ago

But gaining strength and size together is way more impressive than being big, but not actually strong. You should do both.

[-] [deleted] 9 months ago
[-] AreOut 1 Point 9 months ago

I'm getting stronger(currently pushing 400+ on the bench while being all natural) and getting satisfaction from it. I have other ways to attract girls, one of those being self-confidence that I have from being strong. Which couldn't be said about guys that objectively look better than me(physics wise, talking about way lower bf%) but stay silent when we are together with some girls, guess what guy the girls are (mainly) turning to ;)

[-] GayLubeOil 0 Points 9 months ago

Looks like discussion of your hedonist morality is well above your pay grade.

[-] AreOut 1 Point 9 months ago

"hedonist morality" is a very broad term anyway, when we are at "ego" lifting sometimes you have to do partial bench presses to increase your actual bench, for example

and I don't give a flying fuck what other people in the gym will think if I do so

[-] GayLubeOil 1 Point 9 months ago

It's actually a very specific thing

[-] AreOut 1 Point 9 months ago

not the hedonism itself, but the "morality" of it

[-] liberty1127 3 Points 9 months ago

Incompatible for powerlifting. Vince Gironda trained golden era bodybuilders. If you want to get strong you need to regularly be lifting in a 1 to 6 rep range and progressively overloading...this might be decent for a hypertrophy cycle in the off season or between strength cycles but for absolute strength this is a garbage program.

Check profile...I have a decent physique and lift heavy singles all the timr...usually run a 4x4, 5x5 4x6 or sets of 8 or 10 for lift variations like 3 count paused bench. If you are a competitive powerlifter you will understand this program will not work for you brcause there isnt enough specificity. If all you care about is physique...go ahead

[-] Svenrolic 3 Points 9 months ago

Ironically by pointing out how much you think other people suck for "ego lifting" it shows you pay way too much attention to those in the gym with you. While I'm glad you found a routine that works for you, there is no cookie cutter program for everyone in the gym. (Of note rookies and veterans of the gym generally have to do much different workouts, different body types, etc.)

In the gym its just you and the weights. When you start to notice others around you enough to critique their "ego lifting" etc, you probably aren't paying enough attention to your own session and improvements that could be made to your form. Please note, almost every exercise has variants to work different parts of the muscle in different ways. Throwing all your body weight backwards to pull down the lat pulldown is generally in bad form--with the exception of negatives (slowly releasing the weight). Quarter squats work the muscles in different ways, just like the "bench block" is built to work your chest in different ways. Don't worry about other people and their lifts, but if you just have to critique, at least try doing the reps how they are to find the muscles targeted first. I've learned a lot from trying what I thought was bad form, and discovering it was just hitting a different muscle group with a similar movement.

[-] SeasonedRP 3 Points 9 months ago

You'll often see ego lifters tying up the power rack, loading the bar up for shrugs or rack pulls. Real lifters laugh at them, and they don't last long in real gyms. Whether doing 8x8 or something else, a good practice is to focus intensely and exclusively on the contraction of the muscle during each repetition, getting plenty of time under tension for each exercise. Someone also interested in building power could do squats, benches, and deadlifts the regular way, with proper form, and then do assistance work with slow, focused repetitions.

Good post. I've been familiar with Vince Gironda's 8x8 for years, though I've never tried it. Listing squats as one of your lifts triggers an inside joke-Vince Gironda hated squats and didn't have a squat rack in his West Hollywood gym. He thought they built oversized, unsightly glutes. So he had his bodybuilders do sissy squats instead. I definitely don't agree with him on this and would do regular squats, as you are doing.

If doing it for 6 weeks works for you, by all means keep doing it. I know I'd adapt to something like this in a couple of weeks and would need to change it up.

[-] mallardcove 5 Points 9 months ago

Ego lifters make me laugh and I see them no matter what gym I go to. We've all been there though so I get it.

I started making my best gains in the gym when I dropped the weight and started focusing on the quality and contraction of each rep. It was hard to break the conditioning because I played football all the way up to the college level where I had done nothing but strength/power training my whole life.

Too many lifters get too focused on completing a set number of reps and sacrifice form just to get to that number. For example they start the lift with a goal of 15 reps, then get about 8 or 9 and the last 6 are garbage reps, but hey they "got" 15. I was guilty of this as well. To remedy this you only count reps that were good. If you can't get the number of good reps for your rep target, drop the weight.

Vince Gironda was right about a lot, but I agree he wasn't 100% right on everything, and he was wrong on squats. The 8x8 squats with 15 seconds of rest is not easy even with a light weight.

[-] SeasonedRP 2 Points 9 months ago

If you haven't already, you might enjoy Frank Zane's bodybuilding manual and other writings. He focused hard on rep quality and writes about getting in the right zone before beginning a set. I'm doing similar training myself. My background is in powerlifting, with my first meet at age 16 and last one in my forties. I still do some reasonably heavy training, but now enjoy a more bodybuilding style routine and doing strict reps. The guys on here who are lifting should study your post and implement this or something like it at least part of the time.

[-] jagdecat 3 Points 9 months ago

I'll try it. Seems my current circuits are getting boring.

Also mention what each circuit is for per day and what results to expect

[-] Joshua_Pectorals 3 Points 9 months ago

Lifting for 2 years. 1 year of 8x8 high volume like programs. Don't let the fat beta boomers in this thread who have never tried it hold you back. Boomerism will not be tolerated, talk shit post pic ????

Front Back Legs

[-] mallardcove 2 Points 9 months ago

Probably "eternal" bulkers who are always on a bulking diet, have belly overhangs and more blubber in their triceps than a walrus but walk around with sleeveless shirts to show them off.

[-] Thotwrecker 1 Point 9 months ago

In 2015 I was in musclefat mode. Honestly, putting up the big numbers feels good, eating a lot while also putting on muscle feels good, full, powerful. You actually think you look good. These Jason Blaha dudes actually feel like they are badasses. You even delude yourself into thinking chicks dig it. I don't even trust myself anymore to be honest with myself, I just use calipers and if I am testing at over 15% bodyfat, it's time to cut back to sub 10%. The brain on a bulk diet and strength program and ego fulfillment is a very trustworthy thing

[-] domoli 1 Point 9 months ago

agree 100%. I've been running hypertrophy variations of 5/3/1 for years and think it serves aesthetics pretty well all the while inching up the main lifts--just to understand correctly, are you promoting this 8x8 as an aesthetics program? Might try it out

[-] Thotwrecker 1 Point 9 months ago

I am not promoting anything, I haven't done 8/8/8. My holy grail program is 5/3/1 + BBB (Boring But Big - basically adding in 10-12 rep sets of hypertrophy work after you've done your 5/3/1 progression). I am also a big fan of PHAT and Arnold's intermediate BB workout from his training bible.

For me, it was not a program shift, but a mental shift, that fixed my fat ass.

[-] Fulp_Piction 2 Points 9 months ago

Some light googling found that recovery time should be 30s. It's an interesting approach, it seems like circuit training rather than strength training. 64 reps per exercise seems like overkill but don't knock it until you've tried it I suppose.

[-] Managicall 2 Points 9 months ago

- regular lifting

- therapy lifting

- benchmark lifting

[-] someonesopinion6969 2 Points 9 months ago

6 days in the gym? fuck that life bro

[-] c4toyourdoornobeef 2 Points 9 months ago

Comments section are a shit fest. Endorsed contributors being downvotes to oblivion lmao.

[-] CalfsOnDeck 2 Points 9 months ago

Mods please delete this, horrible advice.

[-] _teh_overloard 2 Points 9 months ago

What do you think of GVT? Supersetting two exercises at 10*10 so youre doing 200 reps of superset hell.

Silly question but how do you do all those exercises on any given day? I clearly dont understand how you phrased it because you obviously arent doing 8*8 for all of those exercises, do you mean 8 sets in total on that given day or....?

[-] whatdidshewrite 2 Points 9 months ago

GVT is good. It has its place. Normally you'd do 8x8 or 10x10 for two compound movements and then do regular volume for accessory work. However if you're doing it right, you wont have much left in the tank for accessory work after the two main lifts.

[-] _teh_overloard 1 Point 9 months ago

alright its as i thought the OP pics and chooses two exercises from the list. not sure accessory work makes sense after GVT, perhaps if you have some hours of rest inbetween

[-] alias_guy88 1 Point 9 months ago

I don’t know why people still complicate gym exercises like this. 5 x 5 works just as well as any other strong lifts or heavy lifting program, “keep it simple stupid” and use a routine that works for you. It took me awhile to realise what works for me, but strong lifts is one of the best programs I have ever used.

The whole debate about strength and Hypertrophy Is quite ridiculous. With strength you build muscle so build strength and build muscle at the same time. It doesn’t matter if you do eight reps or five reps, It’s about progressive muscle overload, it’s about lifting more or about smacking out a few more reps.

[-] blacwidonsfw 1 Point 9 months ago

Lots of weight and volume and creatine had been the recipe for me. 15 pounds in 6 weeks gained

[-] [deleted] 9 months ago
[-] nysys 1 Point 9 months ago

What's the point of working out constantly and moving heavy weight? I don't see any need to stress my joints and ligaments. I am a normal sized man (at least by rational standards) and have no trouble with women. I am strong but not concerned about size. Elevators and bison move weight. Fuck that shit. Gravity is my friend. If you need to get big to get laid then you were always going to be a bitch.

[-] mallardcove 1 Point 9 months ago

Ah, the classic "I never lift and pull all the women" lie. Spread your non lifting beta BS somewhere else

[-] nysys 1 Point 9 months ago

I lifted for a couple of years. I work with my hands a lot. I fix things and chop wood. You big-for-nothing motherfuckers have massive insecurity. Real men don't need to peacock.

[-] mooksno 2 Points 9 months ago

Right? real men just shit on other men on the internet for trying to improve themselves!

[-] ChrimsonChin988 1 Point 9 months ago

8 sets of 8 reps builds more stamina than strength.... If you don't want to ego lift do the kai Greene method. Go for 16-20 reps with 1 minute of rest in between. It builds a lot of strength and also some stamina. You can't put on more weight than you can handle using this method, because you'd never be able to go above 8 reps or so. Also, higher reps push you to focus more on form and muscle/mind connection and make you really feel that pump.

[-] MindEnabler 1 Point 9 months ago

This is actually very good advice. It's well known that the optimal zone for hypertrophy is up to 30 reps:;

[-] [deleted] 9 months ago
[-] Varsel 1 Point 9 months ago

Most gyms get all sorts of losers. Gyms cannot be too picky about paying customers, and still keep the doors open. Ego lifters. THOTS trawling for Chads. PUAs trawling for THOTS. Gays trawling for dick. Aholes that don't bother to wipe their sweat off the machines after use, or 'bogart' one certain machine. The list is endless.

[-] TRPmc117 1 Point 9 months ago

6 days a week, 6 exercises per workout at 8x8. That is an insane amount of volume for a natty lifter, even at lower weights.

[-] wobbleelbbow 1 Point 9 months ago

All body builder routines are this retarded. Steroids damage their brains.

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[-] Psychological_Radish 1 Point 9 months ago

I think one point of confusion, mallard, is that you and guys like u/GayLubeOil have been lifting for many years. I remember reading somewhere that you started training in your early teens. I believe GLO was the same. These discussions always degenerate into hot garbage because there's no context.

The main demographic on this sub are early-20s guys who are underweight at 150 lbs and have never stepped foot in a weight room a day in their lives. They're weak and need to build up strength quickly through heavy lifts and a big calorie surplus, otherwise most of them will just end up stalling and quitting. Yeah, your body fat goes up on a program like Rippetoe's SS but I think it's better to look (and be) powerful than to look like a skinny twink.

You say you did strength for much of that time but still looked like shit, but didn't you need that foundation of strength before embarking on a more volume-intensive routine? If there's one thing that causes aesthetically-minded guys the most angst, it is when to make that transition. SS shouldn't last more than 6-9 months but guys get locked into it for years.

I'm curious as to what your stats looked like before you switched over to a new program.

[-] JJ9OO8KK5II 1 Point 9 months ago

Maybe if I want to work out to feel like I destroyed my muscles rather than proper training with effective progression in mind. This isn't a solution to ego lifting, it's just a method of preventing it under specific circumstances. Apply this to running and you'll see why it doesn't really fix anything: "Can you sprint 100m in under 15 seconds? Try having to do 100m in 20 seconds, ten times in a row with 30 seconds rest. You'll quickly realize that you need to pace yourself and aim for above 20 seconds." Like... seriously?

[-] mallardcove 1 Point 9 months ago

I played football at the Division 1 level, and those sprints sound similar to summer workouts we had to do out in 100 degree heat.

[-] Kanye_test 1 Point 9 months ago

if you’re trying to tell inexperienced people to hop on a new program, do stronglifts. don’t do this for the love of god it’s like cardio for your muscles. won’t get stronger or bigger

[-] bway382 1 Point 9 months ago

ultimately people have to train in a way that is going to keep them coming back into the gym however training like this is definitely nowhere near optimal for strength or 'aesthetics'. i enjoy powerlifting/weightlifting so how much i can lift for a 1RM is a progress tracker and a motivating factor for me. that routine is way too much fluff and unnecessary. there's no evidence that doing all those crazy variations does jack shit to make you stronger or look a certain way. your muscles just get bigger (or smaller) and doing a certain variation to 'sculpt' them is bodybuilder bro science bullshit. how they look is a matter of genetics and muscle insertions. doing low rep heavy sets on the basics puts the most tension of the muscles which is going to cause the most growth and get you the strongest. training to become strong will lead to a strong looking physique and is healthier from a mental health point of view versus the insanity that bodybuilders develop. it also feels good to walk around and know that you're actually strong.

[-] u-r-silly 1 Point 9 months ago

8x8 with 15s rest. Seems like a good strength workout more than body building workout. And that's why it's good. For those who wants additional external motivation, get into Body Pump. With appropriate load, it's all the essentials of a workout in a dense hour: high rep #, low rest time.

[-] randomTATRP 1 Point 9 months ago

Why not go for German Volume Training while you're at it already?

[-] [deleted] 9 months ago
[-] HBenedek38 1 Point 9 months ago

Sorry, but this is stupid.

8 repa 8 sets without resting will inevitably lead to overtraining. Additionally, if you do it with less weights, you'll get less hypertrophy out of it.

Basically this is the same shit as Saitama telling people to turn off the AC because it hones your will. It's stupid. Torturing yourself and feeling like shit doesn't only not increase your performance in the gym - it leads to mental stress from fear of working out, which produces cortisol - which further cuts your gains short.

Whoever advises this programme has clearly no idea about actual lifting, and will never actually escape mediocrity.

Btw lifting in the 2-6 rep range is not ego lifting, it's literally what powerlifters do all the time. Why? Because it fucking works. Because major muscle groups reach peak hypertrophy with high loads of lower repetitions.

[-] WalterEArmstrong 1 Point 9 months ago

This looks like it'd work for muscle size but those guys who're into strength building should avoid it like the plague.

[-] Truedemocracy4 1 Point 9 months ago

Not for me but I do agree higher reps is better than 5x5 of whatever bullshit.

This routine won’t add mass or strength. If you’re looking to cut or build endurance sure, but most here aren’t. If you’re looking to get a good aesthetic and you are rail thin then this won’t help. If you’re big maybe

This reminds me of all the idiots touting 5x5s strong lifts and end up looking like morons after the program. Stronger, sure, but not better looking

[-] NoFaithInThisSub 1 Point 9 months ago

"Vince Gironda was...

also a guy who ate 36 eggs a day for 6-8 weeks at a time, there might be something to that or not that let him lift like that.

[-] BrownGummyBear 1 Point 9 months ago

I have been using my bicycle daily to do almost everything in my life for the past year, my legs have never been this defined or big (muscular). My point is, it’s totally possible to get gains by using a high rep range (8-12)

[-] scissor_me_timbers00 1 Point 9 months ago

I mean, everybody cheat reps at the top of the pyramid brah. It’s called trying for a new max. Or lifting til failure. This has never hurt me and I’m probably in the top 2-5% strength for my dimensions with good hypertrophy.

[-] yttanx 1 Point 9 months ago

I train bodybuilding with some powerlifting cycles. This is pure trash. PLEASE NOBODY do 8x8 macaroni grille routine.










Good day.

[-] mallardcove 1 Point 9 months ago


lol. I did this garbage routine for a year and got no results at all.

[-] yttanx 1 Point 9 months ago

Probably because you don't know how to train and most likely have a shit diet.

Calling 5/3/1 & Jim garbage...go jump off a cliff kid.

Edit: And you would be the OP who posted this 8x8 15 second trash workout. LOL

[-] mallardcove 1 Point 9 months ago

Jim Wendler's low volume garbage is for pussies who are afraid to hurt and sweat at the gym.

[-] yttanx 1 Point 9 months ago

Congrats on being a fucking idiot and further proving that you don't lift. Just shut your pie hole you're embarrasing yourself. JIM WENDLER is a training protocol you dipshit. THAT MEANS you can train high or low rep. Google 531 BBB you inbred.

[-] charonshound 0 Points 9 months ago

This is practical advice with none of the macho bullshit that sometimes accompanies advice posts. Good choice.

[-] RStonePT -1 Point 9 months ago

Can confirm

/u/GayLubeOil put me on it. especially since I'm so beat up, it's nice because I gotta drop the weight to make the volume

[-] That_Deaf_Guy -3 Point 9 months ago

I think anyone talking shit in this thread needs to post their physique to back it up

Having said that, I have been told to lay off heavy weight lifting for 4 weeks, so I will try this programme.

[-] Dingdangdoodle21 -20 Point 9 months ago

This isn’t the fitness sub bud

[-] kylerosa21 16 Points 9 months ago

Fitness stuff can get posted here since having good fitness is an absolute must for any man who is RP aware.

Also, there’s an entire flair for fitness on this subreddit...

[-] SmackinDatAss 3 Points 9 months ago

Says the bud with zero fitness.

[-] [deleted] 9 months ago
[-] paulkersey1999 1 Point 9 months ago

the point he is making is to not care what other people think about you, and he is right.