It's happening. Pretty soon my country will follow suit, since we are pretty much swamp-germans (Netherlands). This is what happens, when the family unit is destroyed. There are NO incentives for men to have children.
I can see it all around me, young people are refusing to have children. Most experts are saying it's an economic decision, which is partially true, but also a lie by omission (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie#Lying_by_omission). They are simply refusing to realize the years of feminist policies which have backfired and come to bite us all in the ass.
Ofcourse the political solution is....drum roll...wait for it....
''Mr Probst said the country would need young immigrant workers to fill the significant skills gap. And more women were needed in the workforce to avoid economic problems.''
More feminism!
''That the government of Angela Merkel has thrown so much money at the problem is seen by many, even within her own ranks, as a mistake. "Elterngeld" or "parents' allowance" has cost well over €20bn (£16.1bn) since it was introduced five years ago and its results are questionable.''
Ofcourse the solution to the problem is, the same thing which has started the problem in the first place. Europe is doomed and on it's way to economic disaster. The powers that be have to be either
- Ignorant and thus incapable of doing their job.
- Aware of what they're doing, but simply don't care.
''Demographics and family policy experts are divided over the reasons for the apparent reluctance to have children, as well as the ways to tackle the situation. What they generally agree on is that Germany's demographic future looks gloomy. With many more Germans dying than being born for 40 years, the obvious results will be a shrinking workforce, lower growth and a struggle to pay for a rapidly ageing population.''
Edit:Interesting comment that highlights why the decline in German birth rate is not just economical:
German here. The lower class has many children, since the state benefits are quite good, but the middle class or above start very late or never at all.
There's no reason for any woman to not have children. Great universal healthcare, guaranteed time off (up to 3 years), you may pick up your old job, low costs (if you're good with money), no college fund needed. Economic reasons my ass. It's probably one of the best countries to have children in.
Source (In German) http://www.hwwi.org/fileadmin/hwwi/Mediencenter/Pressemitteilungen/2015_Pressemitteilungen/2015-05-11/20150529_PM_IBC_Geburtenrate_HWWI.pdf
Another source (shitty guardian article) http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/sep/21/germany-birthrate-low-falling
pulpedid 8y ago
In an age of increasing automation and a strong reduction in jobs, such cab drivers, garbage men, back and front office employees. I think that less people is more future proof then more. Though we would benefit more from kids from well educated people, but economically and environmentally this is not a bad thing. Though the lower educated kids will have troubles with tomorrow's Highly skilled jobs which will remain.
Venicedreaming 8y ago
This is actually a good thing. As automation advances, there aren't enough jobs for everyone. Countries with the least amount of people and the highest technological advances will come out on top. You need quality citizens, not bunch of idiots
beginner_ 8y ago
Swiss. The problem here is similar. You either need to be poor, eg. unemployed and get benefits, which are huge or be upper middle class. Anything in between you fare worse than the unemployed. It was recently shown that a family with 2 kids and a 12k CHF income fare better than anyone earning up to 100k a year. (Note 12k is nothing as the median monthly wage is about 6k...
But you get the picture. Either you make over 100k or just quit your job. The only gotcha is that if your parents have money, they have to pay you before you get benefits. Due to this system the poor have no incentive to improve or get a job. Getting as much benefits as possible is their job...They usually are more knowledgeable about the law than most law students...
Why are benefits so huge? Because obviously every child needs an own room and hence the state pays for a huge apartment. In Zürich nowadays you can only live in a decent apartment if you started to live their a decade ago (it's nearly impossible for landlords to raise existing rent!), you get benefits or you earn like 150k+.
Prattler26 8y ago
It's amazing that problems caused by feminism will be addressed by applying more feminism. It will get much much worse before it finally gets better.
Protect yourself!
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pirateundies 8y ago
I always liked the quote "Marxism in heels"
olican101 8y ago
Uhh, Socialism is the fix to conservatism, not socialism... Compare Sweden (socialist) with any conservative country. Look at the GDP and happiness rate.
mryddlin 8y ago
That's exactly what it is, it was a response to Marxism in the late 70's.
I just had this argument with a SJW, that feminism cannot encompasses the entire women's rights movements.
It did not get the right to vote, it did not give women financial freedom. Those were people in the late 1900's and ended after WWII.
Feminism is just a construct of the baby boomer generation. The word literally only comes into the public domain in the late 70's, piggybacking the term Feminism omto the political group called feminist nation party (or something like that).
The term was used to try to mass appeal to unite under single issues based on gender and was a flop at the time.
Seems like it was dusted off and the message was refined a bit more. Same tactics too, that group was known for being trolls in the 1910s.
Feminism the 70's ideology has only been focused on the victimization of women by men, and using the legal system to perpetuate that meme.
[deleted] 8y ago
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drallcom3 8y ago
Leftist in Germany quite openly want to destroy Germany by watering down the German population.
SpongeCroft 8y ago
"Germany dies a little bit more every day, and I think that's great!"
-Claudia Roth, high person of the green party
ObservantOmega 8y ago
That's the green party in Germany for you! Those people are idiots who want to provide help and support for people returning from waging Jihad in Syria/destroying mankind's heritage sites and murdering innocent people.
[deleted] 8y ago
This. It's as much of a racial issue as it is a gender issue. But it's 100% a Marxist bullshit, self-loathing, white guilt issue.
ObservantOmega 8y ago
Leftist Germans are the most self-hating people in existence. They are so brainwashed that they would gladly destroy Germany if given a chance.
Dornerthecoroner 8y ago
Funny story: The German government is rebuilding the Prussian palace of Berlin and the green party there lobbied the German government to turn it into a museum of African hostory. In Berlin.
RojoEscarlata 8y ago
Is like no one remembers what the leftist did to South Africa.
5More_Minutes 8y ago
So they are even bigger cucks then the Sweden?
ObservantOmega 8y ago
Not there yet, thank whatever higher power you want. But we are rolling towards the same goal as Sweden.
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drallcom3 8y ago
I wish there were Jews, Muslims or Illuminati behind all this, but they're really doing this to themselves.
The leftists are usually employed by the state or don't have any income, so making the state more powerful is beneficial to them. Luckily the Germans don't trust them with economic issues.
Dopamine37 8y ago
But who is allowing them to do this? Some ppl believe there is a group of people who are intentionally creating this type of environment so that SJW and other leftists can thrive and destroy Germany and other white countries
drallcom3 8y ago
It's the typical SJW stuff. Everyone daring to critizice them gets (socially) annihilated. Their voting power is also quite high, so they get pandered to.
Temuzjin 8y ago
I can understand you being angry or scared, but if you want to understand the problem, then implying that leftists intentionally want to destroy Germany won't give you a clear picture of the issues at hand. You can of course debate whether leftist policies will in fact destroy Germany, but most leftists honestly think that leftist policies are good for the country/world in general and not just for themselves. You may think they're misguided or delusional, but they're not intentionally trying to destroy the country and advocating leftist policies as a way of doing that.
For some leftists, this is true. However, usually is distorting facts. According to some quick googling, unemployment rate is Germany is about 5% and about 10% of German workers work for the government. So even if 100% of people on unemployment and 100% of government workers are leftists, then that's still just 15% of the population. So the majority of leftists in fact have a non-government job.
I'm not writing this to piss people off, though I'm sure I will. I'm writing this because there are a lot of constructive things you can do when a lot of people disagree with you and are plain wrong, but there are very few things you can do when a lot of people disagree with you because they actively and intentionally are trying to sabotage the country. Putting blinders on and demonizing the opposition will only lead to polarization and stagnation.
nzgs 8y ago
The small number of public sector leftists in all developed countries hold huge influence, and it only takes about 10% of the electorate to shift the Overton window enough to make radical ideas like feminism and white guilt mainstream. Never underestimate the evil these small numbers are capable of inflicting on others; 20th century history from the death camps to the Stasi, is a warning of what happens when this minority gain political influence.
drallcom3 8y ago
I'm not implying, the party leaders said it themselves. Go google it.
Temuzjin 8y ago
I've tried googling it and I honestly couldn't find it. Can you give me the link?
DarkCrimes 8y ago
There are people in the US and Sweden who believe this as well.
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAEoCCNU8AAWvuH.jpg
The key to solving the social problems of our age is to abolish the white race. Until that task is accomplished, even partial reform will prove elusive, because white influence permeates every issue in U.S. society, whether domestic or foreign. —Noel Ignatiev, Abolish the White Race - By Any Means Necessary.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q90kmUbEv7c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jl-OJJVAEg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuYKtwnzG7M
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-18519395
RedBigMan 8y ago
Gee wasn't WWII fought because the germans wanted to commit genocide against the Jewish race... Now we got idiots advocating for genocide of the white race?
Just goes to show you who is in power. Imagine if you suggested this of hispanic, black or asian populations what the reaction would be.
nzgs 8y ago
Nazism was merely race-centric Marxism just as modern progressivism is Marxism in disguise. It's the same ideology of victimhood, only rather than Germans being oppressed by jews now it is oppression by whites. If only they taught the Marxist origins of European fascism in schools...
olican101 8y ago
I live in a city with very high immigration. I have more issues with people that are racist than people that are immigrants. By this i mean, i would feel completely safe walking down the high street of an immigration area holding my boyfriends hand (i am a gay male). never had any issues.
What i HAVE had issues with though, is a British woman (this is in the UK) going up to a muslim woman sitting next to me (she was only covering her hair) and pointing to her 4 year old child saying "these people are the scum that are stealing your fathers job"... the muslim woman was a student and had lived in the UK all her life (found this out after i threatened to call CPS on the offending woman).
I fail to see any issues at all with allowing other cultures into the society that i live in. As long as they follow the laws like everyone else. Why does it matter if someone's parents are muslim/british/american? Surely if they have gone through the trouble of coming all this way, then they have a better work ethic than someone living in their parents garage...
I am not for "abolishing the white race". I am for "giving everyone equal opportunities no matter their race/sex/gender/sexuality/hair colour/religion/weight/etc.
Vaterss 8y ago
Rotherham, Rochdale, Derby, Oxford, Bristol, Telford, Peterborough and numerous others. There's several thousand children in the UK who've been sexually exploited precisely because of that attitude towards people who come from pedophiliac clan societies like that of Pakistan, 1400 in Rotherham alone.
Why would they?
Neither you nor anyone like you would be in favor of truly punishing them when it comes down to it.
Because truly belonging to a society matters?
Because a homeland is not something you just give away?
Because ethnic homogeneity is the core of social capital without which you not only get ethnic conflicts (political, social, gangs, even warfare) but also remove the entire support structure for the modern state and all it's amenities such as welfare and universal healthcare.
When it degenerates into the simple clan society you are effectively building of "me and my brother against my cousin, me and my cousin against the stranger" then be assured that "honor" will come into central focus again and outspoken homosexuals will have little to no recourse.
In which case they shouldn't have the low 40% employment as Somali men do. (women generally don't work at all)
The trouble of paying a smuggler several thousand in the hopes of living off welfare or making as much as they did back home for the same amount of work is not an indicator of their work ethic as any actual employer would tell you. (that's assuming you wouldn't spit on them for being capitalist pigs)
Uh-huh. Methinks the lady doth protest too much.
Then let's do that for their countries as well. Nothing wrong with "whites" moving en-massé to South Africa and out-competing the native blacks for employment, politics and state welfare purposes, right?
Or is that racist and invasive of another people's homeland reminiscent of old-time colonialism?
olican101 8y ago
I LIVE in Bristol. No issues at all. Are you saying that people abuse children because of where they're from? British people abuse children too.
Why wouldn't they?
I believe in equality. Why wouldn't i punish them for a crime that anyone else would be punished for? You make no sense. You are literally saying "you believe in equality so you wouldnt treat people equal" what?
So why cant other people join our society if you think it's so great?
Their homeland: earth. our homeland: earth. I don't see a difference? Besides. If i own a property, why should you be able to tell me what i do with it? if i want to sell it to someone from Pakistan, why shouldn't i be able to?
So, you are saying that, allowing multiple races to live together would lead to warfare? Please, quote a war in Sweden, the country with the highest % of immigration in the world. Plus, we have the NHS BECAUSE of immigration. without it. the NHS would crumble. 5% of the UK are immigrants. 20% of Doctor's are.
How would it lead to clan society if everyone is treated the same? as i said, i have never experienced any homophobia towards me or my partner from immigrants. I HAVE, experienced homophobia from non immigrants though. Just goes to show that you cant judge people based on where they're from.
Except, immigration GAINS us money. A immigrant is more likely to own a business than someone British-born.
Maybe if our boarder restrictions weren't so Xenophobic, they wouldn't need a smuggler... A lot of countries have gone to shit. why should people be stuck there if they don't want to be? Put yourself in their shoes. Imagine if radical christians took over the UK and were killing anyone that didnt agree with them. Wouldn't you want to move?
why would i do that? Capitalism helps everyone involved...
We DO do that for other countries. France has a HUGE amount of Brits. When did i mention South-Africa?
Why do we have to treat people differently based on where they're born? I prefer Sweden's political and social views, so i would like to move there. Why shouldn't i be able to? Many people in the UK like the USA's views. They should also be able to. Why, would you judge someone at the minute they come out of their mother's womb?
Vaterss 8y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_sex_gang
Absolutely. Pakistan is a clan society where the average age of marriage is 12 to 14 years old. Pedophilia doesn't even register to them and their variant of Islam is pretty clear in how it looks down on non-muslims.
Not on a mass-organized scale, no. Not even your 70s Tories or those of the BBC who protected Savile & friends can claim to have done that.
Because it's "racist". Because they "can't handle alcohol". Because there were "extenuating circumstances" like raping children of low class white people while being foreign.
Then you are clearly alone in your beliefs.
Because they aren't white lower-to-middle class britons and thus not held to the same standard under your political class. Some animals are more equal than others in the eyes of the Davos elites.
Because it isn't based on something so simplistic as moronic as "wanting to join" but ties of blood, culture and history. You can wish you'd be a native american and part of their reservations as well when you're really nothing of the kind. You can wish you were a ghetto black while you are an upper middle class wigger. You can wish that you were Han Chinese when you're really Tibetan. You can wish and "feel" with all your might and it still won't change who you are and what you aren't.
Then no doubt there isn't an issue in throwing you out of Britain, right?
I mean there's no difference. Clearly then there's no issue with keeping you or them out of a specific landmass.
Because you only own property through the goodwill of others and by that of the state. Your right to property doesn't exist independently of that which is why you aren't your own state.
You are able to and I haven't been arguing otherwise. You selling it to them doesn't give them the right to inhabit the land and nation where it is located.
Certainly. We already see many famous examples of such in Asia with Sri Lankas Tamils and Arabic Muslims, in India with the Hindus and Muslims of different ethnic groups.
Sweden only has about 6% immigrants most of which are Finns. They've already see the MENA immigrants areas as crime-ridden and are already voting in Nationalists with the express intent of cutting immigration by over 90%.
Incidentally they've also seen those immigrants riot and burn cars in one of the most well-subsidized immigrant neighbourhoods.
As ridiculous in the extreme as it always is when British leftists spout that nonsense. Every other country in Europe has universal healthcare without relying upon Indian or MENA nurses and doctors.
Without which you'd incentivize the state to educate more homegrown Doctors as is the case everywhere else.
For one thing they aren't. People from clan societies like Pakistanis are left to abuse children for years before your police does anything and when they do they're more often than not lenient in their sentencing.
Then hang with them. I don't doubt that the closest you've ever been to most immigrants is across a shop counter. Arabic states tend to hang you and their immigrants are more conservative than their home countries for the most part. Russians don't even differentiate you from paedophiles if they're not metropolitan types.
Funny. I find that you can absolutely judge a person based on where they come from as they have numerous ingrained cultural views they carry with them. You are for example a pretty standard case of Middle-Class Socialliberal Internationalist Anglo.
In the UK's case it does largely due to the huge economic market of London. In Sweden's case it drains somewhere between 4-7% of their GDP yearly.
Actually specific immigrant groups. If you start sorting by ethnic group you'll find that quite a few of them don't pay for themselves at all. Norway did it and found that only a few groups managed to pay more than they took out of their welfare system, not even most western groups managed.
Xenophobic as in "actually needs to add something to the country before we let them in"?
They'd need a smuggler anyway since EU rules state that the first country of entry is where they will seek refugee status. Which of course leads to them seeking out the most welfare-friendly nations and destroying their passports on entry.
Thanks to their people. Countries don't go to shit on their own.
Why should someone else take on the burden of those people?
Why should they have a right to someone else's country?
Depends, did I put those radical Christians in charge in the first place?
Did I pass through 15+ safe countries to get to the EU and another 15+ to get to the UK in order to maximize my welfare and earning potential?
I doubt early industrial workers or any of the victims of robber barons would agree.
Less than 5% of France's immigrants are Brits. You don't even register to them.
You didn't. I did.
Wouldn't it be horrible in your worldview if South Africa became primarily English or Dutch?
Wouldn't that effectively be colonialism by other means?
Because divesting a people of their homeland is a great tragedy as can be attested to by the native people groups of America, Canada, South America, the Khoi San, the Kurds, the Tibetans, the Jews and a great number of other people groups who've been alienated from their own soil.
You don't. You prefer your idealized view of Sweden's political and social views that have nothing to do with the reality. They're voting for much harder nationalists than UKIP and in greater numbers per capita.
Because it is the homeland of the Swedes and has been from before recorded history. Their ancestors built the nation in all it's respects and you have no right to it whatsoever. No more than you Brits had a right to your colonies and certainly no right to move their against their will.
RS73 8y ago
You're so massively fucking delusional, stupid, and ignorant you're not even worth arguing with. You must be trolling.
"i would feel completely safe walking down the high street of an immigration area holding my boyfriends hand (i am a gay male)." Terrific. Here's your safe "immigration area", you fucking imbecile:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-21142148
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/sep/07/iran-executes-men-homosexuality-charges
olican101 8y ago
First one is a one time issue. Second isn't even in my country. What does that do with anything?
cariboo_j 8y ago
Feminism has some links with Marxism but I think it has more to do with the female penchant for entitlement to male resources, playing victim and own gender preference.
Feminism appeals to the worst aspects of the female personality.
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[deleted] 8y ago
I'd rather say that socialism and leftism are feminism by blue pill betas interposed.
cariboo_j 8y ago
Feminism in the 1970s was pushed by Marxist influenced women, but contemporary feminism is an independent movement and has more to do with appealing to the shitty part of women's personalities than communist principles.
If there was no Marxism we'd still see feminism in some form or another.
We'd still see women pushing for special privileges over and above what men have because the government has replaced individual men as the protector and provider.
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roteroktober 8y ago
socialism is not the problem, only the americans who got too much anti soviet propaganda fed to them would believe that.
for example, being able to afford health care no matter what job you have and thus having the security to have children does not cause people not to have children.
unsafeword 8y ago
Socialism is not strictly an economic term. The principles that lead to these social changes - with a bunch of philosopher queens overturning the old ways in favor of trying to socially engineer some new collectivist utopia - are entirely socialist, and would be so even omitting the fiscal aspects.
OneShotAtGlory 8y ago
Socialism is the problem, I see it first hand where I live, it only brings chaos and mayhem to every aspect (economical, social, education, health, so on and so forth). Only ignorants, freeloaders and pothead uni students believe marxist lies, and it pains me to see some here on trp defending this shit that lead to at least 100 million direct deaths in the last century.
roteroktober 8y ago
what you seem to ignroe is that a nation like germany is still capitalistic. its still a free market, it only has a system in place so that poor people have acces to health care and not only the rich.
Anderfail 8y ago
Socialism is the fucking problem. This shit is what led to every single problem we see with feminism nowadays. The idea that people deserve to have something for nothing is poisonous.
roteroktober 8y ago
they dont get something for nothng. most people who get money also pay into the insurence.
[deleted] 8y ago
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roteroktober 8y ago
no shit, its the genius americans calling it socialism.
cooliekiller 8y ago
I've got no idea why they do it either.
Konstrukt1 8y ago
American views on European social policy are generally cartoonish and are best ignored.
BRB Gestapo knocking on the door to shake me down at gunpoint to pay for my third-world healthcare.
RS73 8y ago
European views on American social policy are generally cartoonish and are best ignored.
Konstrukt1 8y ago
No doubt, which is why I didn't presume to comment on it.
RS73 8y ago
Disingenuous. If that type of misapprehension is such a universal phenomenon, then there was no need to single out Americans, was there? No, only if you wanted to be a smug Europhile.
Konstrukt1 8y ago
I explained to the poster I originally replied to why he was receiving laughable and incorrect evaluations of German social policy. I don't see what European ignorance of American practices would have added to the topic. But if you'd like me to be more universal, I'm sure that the average Kenyan's perspective on the social policy of Singapore is fairly ignorant as well.
Spot on with the smug Europhile though.
RS73 8y ago
The obvious point is that you wouldn't bother to sneer at the alleged cartoonishness of a Kenyan or Singaporean perspective but would debate the merits, or lack thereof, of whatever they said independent of their national origin. But when it comes to America and Americans, you're on it.
Congratulations, though, on being a clichéd, smug, Euro-asshole. I'm glad Obama is pulling the US back from the world policing that is undoubtedly offensive to your EU sensibilities. It will make it easier for Iran to eventually drop a nuke down your chimney.
Konstrukt1 8y ago
Iran? You almost jostled my smug tophat and clichéd goblet of Bordeaux there, chap. You see, villain fantasies only remain interesting and exciting when you mix them up every once in a while. There's so many dastardly villains in the world, be creative! For example, North Korea is certainly targeting our major capitals as we speak, the Vietnamese are most likely up to something again, and I myself never trusted those perfidious Japs anyway.
[deleted] 8y ago
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a233424 8y ago
I read that in the voice of Joe the plumber.
roteroktober 8y ago
its amaziong just how twisted their minds are. they all act as if they are the CEOs of corporations or part of the 0,0000001% of the super rich. those are the ones who profit from a US like system. normal people have a far greater life with a system as it is in germany.
RS73 8y ago
I guess that "greater life" accounts for your suicidal nihilism and demographic death spiral.
roteroktober 8y ago
which americans are having children? is it the middle class? the elite? or is it the poor living in the ghettos who are having all the children?
mrp3anut 8y ago
Where do the tax dollars that pay for this healthcare come from? Nothing is free, if you force employers to pay too much or force doctors to charge too little they will either leave and go somewhere else or they will never start their endeavor.
If you feel so strongly about it why don't you go to med school, get your 500k worth of student loans, start your working life at 30, then limit yourself to the same salary as the guy that flips burgers and smokes weed all day.
Nantafiria 8y ago
Why don't you, in your infinite wisdom, show us a country where this is the case?
In fact, socialism in Germany, the country we're discussing, has ensured college is free. Where is your student debt now?
olican101 8y ago
where does a company paid insurance scheme come from? (hint, the consumers of that companies product). in fact, it works out cheaper to cut out all the middle men and give everyone a decent level of coverage paid for by taxes.
Yes, that TOTALLY happened in Europe. Not like we have medical scientists coming from all over the world... /s
OR, doctors could be paid a decent wage, just like they are in the UK?
99639 8y ago
FYI medical care in the US is free (or can't be refused) if you go to the er and it's an emergency. So we refuse to pay for someone's hypertensive meds that cost $5 a month but we do pay for their $600,000 stroke two years later.
Obama care is a fucking farce and we hate it but the current system is also broken as hell too. You probably end up paying more right now than just covering this basic shit.
curiousthis 8y ago
Why is it a farce?
It does two things that were very badly needed:
limit the administrative component of your premium (i.e. insurers must spend most of the money they get in premiums on actual healthcare and not on bonuses to execs).
oldmanwho 8y ago
legitimate patches to a horrid system were used as a trojan horse, putting those patches to shame. tiny solutions to the old game, while the house simultaneously changed the rules, invalidated all concessions. a farce.
globally, also a farce: you pay for what you can't get, all under the guise that someone else might at least get it, all while no one actually pays for it at all, and all while we all know it. insurance != care, yet all pay in knowingly misplaced trust so the teenager and her cougar mom get some birth control, antidepressants to control the resultant bipolar side effects, and diabetes meds to control the side effects's side effects.
the actual pay-out transaction of insurance-promises to care-provisioners has always been the key, never the pay-in. the number of individuals demanding care was drastically expanded without expanding the number of care-provisioners, all while requiring more reduction in individual pay outs to care-provisioners. so the effective demand seen by care-provisioners is non-existent, so care-provisioning falls, all while everyone pays more for what no one is actually paying for. you're paying for birth control and diabetes, not even the care you're thinking of. the care you're thinking of goes into litigation for a few years, it isn't the same.
the paradox is that fulfillment: effectively there is no fulfillment. demand would increase supply, but horrid reimbursement already more horrible than demand was made even worse. the farce was that the rules to the game changed to ensure the house/insurance/wellpoint always wins. realistically though, it was the only thing that could happen: expanding the global money supply independent of actual work supply would just make you pay more for the work anyway. that it just so happens to go to insurance instead is just now required instead of optional.
seattleron 8y ago
Yeah, two very small facets of a shit law.
Putting caramel on dog shit doesn't turn it into a an ice cream cone.
99639 8y ago
First of all Obamacare is primarily a tax on healthy young men which transfers wealth to women and the elderly. It requires young men who use no or very little medical care to pay into a system which gives care to expensive women and elderly. Men are not using the care and they do not need it but they are paying for it all. Previously you were able to opt out of this system but that is no longer the case.
Those two features you mentioned are great and were needed. However it continues to involve for-profit insurance companies in this system which is a limp dick half measure. They're a cancer in the health system, all they do is run up costs and provide literally zero benefit for anyone. The insurance companies managed to get this law passed which actually requires all Americans to buy their bullshit product. They are the reason that you pay $52 for 2 aspirin in a hospital and a bag of saline (salt water) is $38. It's a scam, through and through, and they got themselves a mandate that all people have to buy their shit.
curiousthis 8y ago
You're still able to opt out of it by paying a "fee". I just saw that it almost doubled from 2014.
You're more right than you know. Obama actually opposed forcing people to buy insurance but had to give in when he realized that was the only way to get the law to pass.
You may not know this but the he made it easy to opt out by leaving in a very large loophole in the law:
seattleron 8y ago
And the fee is a crock of shit. An absolute crock of shit. I should not have to pay the government money to make a personal choice.
It's fucking disgustung.
mrp3anut 8y ago
So basically you are saying that our current level of socialism is expensive so we need more socialism to make it cheaper? The problem with this mentality is that who gets to decide what "sickness" is covered? Is being a completely healthy breeding age female a sickness? Am I required to provide birth control, tampons, and midol to every female in america? How much should the taxpayers expend to keep a morbidly obese land whale alive? It isn't as simple as the "pay for heart meds not heart surgery" trope. If it was only $5 a month the uninsured would just buy the meds, but it isn't which is why this entire argument exists.
99639 8y ago
Yes. Our current system hits a peak of cost and inefficiency. It's gloriously designed to waste money. Cutting back the socialism or increasing it would both save money. FWIW cutting back socialism means refusing treatment in ER's until proof of capability to pay is found. This means every car accident/gun shot victim/old person found unconscious with a heart attack would not be given first aid unless their wallet and insurance card are found and the policy is verified with the insurer. Right now this care is provided immediately and then later they hospital/paramedics talk about insurance and money. It would be a huge shift in how we treat people and many insured people would be left to die if their card wasn't found with their body.
Hospitals don't just let someone die in their wards without doing stuff, regardless of bills. A hospital might not give them a cardiac surgery which would mostly cure the issue but they won't just pull the plug and watch them die. So even without you "paying" for it you pay for it. These people spend months on the ICU costing $10k per day. A $5 medication might have prevented this but that wasn't covered so they never got it. It's a stupid waste of money.
I don't know what that means. It sounds like you're upset that your premiums also go to cover things like birth control. Considering each birth costs $20k+, and a lifetime of birth control will never be 10% of that, you should be happy they are taking contraception. Again, you're cutting off your nose to spite your face. The only way you won't actually pay for these things is if you have an insurer that only covers males or you completely avoid the insurance industry entirely. Until Obamacare you were allowed to simply not have any insurance at all and cover any bills that come up yourself. However, medical bills are far and away the leading cause of bankruptcy in the US so bear that in mind. If you get hit by a drunk driver you might end up still paying hundreds of thousands out of pocket and never be able to work again. Few people can weather such a scenario.
You give them far too much credit. Try being more cynical. Many of these people won't even take them if they're free but they have to walk to the pharmacy to get them.
reckttt 8y ago
Though I agree with you that this system is extremely wasteful, letting the uninsured die is the worst possible way to address this. What if you were in a car accident and you needed blood immediately. Should the hospital let you bleed out wile trying to call the insurance company?
99639 8y ago
I'm not advocating for such a system, I was just explaining to the other guy what exactly it would mean if we stopped providing "free" care at ED's.
roteroktober 8y ago
think about it this way: everybody pays x% into one account. when 1 person gets sick, the overs that are not sick pay his treatment.
since it will never happen that everybody will be sick at the same time and many never get seriously sick it works out in the end.
at the end of the day the insurence companies still make HUGE profits in germany and if you can afford it you can leave the mandatory healthcare and buy private insurence.
what the fuck is this bullshit? Doctors in germany do not earn the same as burger flippers. however, the doctor pays taxes and fom these taxes the burger flipper will get treatment for whatever heahlth issue he may have, as it should be in a civilized society.
its way better than to live in a coujntry like the USA where getting sick means being bankrupt. or being overcharged by 500% for medical treatment, or to be exploted by the corporations.
[deleted] 8y ago
This is reddit bro...the U.S. is never wrong or broken, it's all because ethnic diversity and large population and _insert_irrelevant_reason.
Phuk_The_Fat_Admins 8y ago
Getting sick doesn't mean going bankrupt, this is the biggest easily debunk-able trope repeated by supposedly intelligent Europeans on a daily basis. Reading the sob stories on reddit does not provide a realistic view into the reality of US healthcare.
The problem is that NOT ENOUGH people are bankrupted by medical problems. People with insurance such as myself, tend to live in a bubble. I go to John Hopkins for healthcare. Rated by multiple entities as one of the best providers on the planet. Of the top 10 provider on the planet, half or more are located in the US. Because this quality of healthcare is available to many, and the close mindedness of those who have never been destitute, not enough people want complete overhaul.
I personally think single payer is a better model. But only because I am able to look outside of my situation and realize others may not have the same opportunities.
If more Americans were suffering financial problems, political change would be possible. Instead, we have a percentage who gets fucked, and everyone else who is fine and doesn't give a shit. Voters do not want their healthcare model to change, because they aren't getting fucked. At least not enough of them.
The best thing for creating a single payer healthcare system would be if getting sick automatically resulted in bankruptcy. That's not happening to enough people to drive public opinion.
And it really doesn't help when the press finds out that rich foreign politicians are leaving their government run healthcare utopia in Europe or Canada to have surgeries done in the US. That only reinforces the opinions of ignorant voters that socialized healthcare will result in diminished quality.
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roteroktober 8y ago
germany is rich enough to provide healthcare for the burger flipper. its not a reward its humane. you are also ignoring that the burger flipper is also paying taxes and therefore is also providing others who are sick with healthcare.
you dont mind paying taxes for roads, even though you may never use the some of the roads that have been build with your money.
oldmanwho 8y ago
that's one fucked up version of the word humane.
let the disabled think they're olympians all their lives? they never became olympic, despite all your "humane". they never even try, because of your "humane". and all actual olympians wasted.
let the infertile think they're fertile all their lives? they never became fertile, despite all your "humane". they never even try, because of your "humane". and all actual fertility wasted.
that's not humane. that's not even human. that's magically thinking that other's "richness" can change your "richness". that's righteous theft, with the deliberate forsaking of rightful merit, all while feeling humane. in short, that's insanity. and no matter how much you force insanity, insanity is still insane.
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roteroktober 8y ago
because hen you get sick, your child, parents, wife you/ they will be provided for and dont have to worry about being able to pay.
are you actually willing to bet that nothing will ever happen to you?you are one accident away from never being able to work again. if that happened, who will help your family? in germany, the rest of the society DOES GIVE A SHIT. solidarity. community. do these things mean anything to you?
you dont mind paying for your gigantic military and billions on war, but the little you would have to pay for insurance, THATS an issue.
FatStig 8y ago
That can be accomplished by voluntary life insurance.
Right now ? Yes.
Yes they mean quite a lot. I do not give them out indiscriminately.
Wow, you can tell me what I'm thinking despite it not being what I'm thinking. I reluctantly agree to pay for that because if the US isn't dominant countries like germany start world wars.
Throwahoymatie 8y ago
If hospitals are guaranteed to get paid regardless of the prices they set, what incentive do they have to set lower prices and operate efficiently?
olican101 8y ago
The hospitals don't set the price.
Trufflesaurus 8y ago
Are you referencing America here? Because America's hospitals AND health insurance companies over charge by ridiculous amount. The truth of the matter is that anywhere there is Healthcare available there will be a huge markup on the cost. Their health is literally the most important thing to the majority of people.
Throwahoymatie 8y ago
Supply and demand can drive prices lower (and will, especially as diagnostics prices fall). Price is formed at the margin, it's not a function of how important something is to people.
99639 8y ago
Healthcare is not a free market, this is part of the reason the prices are so stupid. No competition = no supply/demand interactions.
Ch1pp 8y ago
Hospitals have a budget they have to stay under but really the savings don't come from efficiency but from bulk buying. If you have a huge nationalised healthcare system you can say to Pharmaceutical companies "You can supply the whole country if you can do X price" whereas in the US drugs and equipment are sold hospital by hospital with much of the cost passed onto the consumer.
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[deleted] 8y ago
I found some studies in France showing that where there is a national health care (in Europe and Canada), The price of drugs tends to be lower and there is less counterfeit drugs in the market.
The price of medicine is something in europe is something like half the price in USA.
seattleron 8y ago
I believe that, but the for profit drug companies in America are the ones innovating and coming up with new drugs. The free market has allowed them to make money and contralto break through with new medicine.
If then did not have the incentive to make the cAsh from the free market in America, who knows what drugs we wouldn't have. American companies take on the risk, develop the drugs, then the rest of the world benefits from it.
roteroktober 8y ago
the insurence companies will not pay the hospitals whatever the hospitols want. the corperations that pay the hospitals will make sure that they are not overcharged, you can bet your ass on that.
its in the US where hospitals overcharge individuals by 500% at times.
SgtBrutalisk 8y ago
You are right, here in Eastern Europe tooth extraction with 2 shots of anesthetic costs 15$, without any insurance or paperwork. In the US, that would probably be couple hundred bucks.
Evileddie13 8y ago
Try $800 for starters. Oh, Insurance covers some of that. Americans, next time you go just to SEE your doctor, tell them your self pay. Immediate 30% discount. Why? Insurance companies get that 30%.
buckfitchesgetmoney 8y ago
if you can't spell corporation correctly you can shut the fuck up about something as complicated as health care
seattleron 8y ago
Yeah, a non-American who can't even fucking spell right telling Americans about something as serious as healthcare. This sub is going downhill with all of these BP socialists infiltrating it.
BigAl265 8y ago
The reason many of our hospitals charge so much is to cover the cost of all the people on Medicare/Medicaid, which doesn't pay the hospitals or doctors even close to what healthcare costs. I worked for one of the nation's largest medical billing companies for several years, trust me, I know what I'm talking about.
roteroktober 8y ago
well, if your super rich and the mega corperations would pay a tiny fractions of their GIGANTIC profits, you could provide the entire population with healthcare.
Throwahoymatie 8y ago
Yeah, and if everybody gave Paris Hilton $1, she'd be able to perform open heart surgery.
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Throwahoymatie 8y ago
Oh bullshit. Insurance corporations already pay whatever the hospitals demand. You have zero understanding of the economics involved.
pinechas 8y ago
No they don't. They negotiate it, typically to less than half the cost of the out of pocket patient's bill.
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thefisherman1961 8y ago
There's nothing wrong with that - if it's done voluntarily. The problem is that it's compulsory. I am required to pay for the health insurance of others, and if I don't, a bunch of thugs are going to come to my house and kidnap me at gunpoint.
If it was such a great idea, you wouldn't need to force it on people.
The real root of the healthcare problem is the cost. Right now, the UK has the best overall healthcare system in the world. The U.S. has the highest quality care, but it's too expensive and inequitably distributed. In the early 60s, the U.S. was spending about 1/3 the amount of money (public and private combined) per person, adjusted for inflation, as the U.K. is today. Everybody had access to healthcare. We had the best heathcare system in the world; and it was better than the modern UK system because it was cheaper and we had better access.
This was all before the government started massively involving itself and we had a relatively free market system. There is a very strong correlation between the amount the US government is involved in the healthcare system and how expensive it is.
Do the math. Making health insurance compulsory doesn't solve the problem of the cost of healthcare. It's a statist solution to a statist problem, just like the feminist SJW's in the OP's example. It's the only thing statists understand. Feminists do not understand the free market in the sexual marketplace just as statists do not understand the free market in the overall economy.
seattleron 8y ago
This needs stickied for GP for non-Americans to understand the horseshit that Obamacare is.
savoryprunes 8y ago
You have to force it on some people. Some are willing and most will pay just because they don't like to think too deeply about anything and because everyone else pays anyway.
This is how it works with taxes. If you make it completely optional and inform everyone of how optional it is, then no one will pay. The result in the case of federal income tax is that we would have no government, hence no military, and we would be invaded by other countries.
My point is, just because it's more or less forced doesn't make it a bad idea. The forced aspect is necessary to overcome the selfishness at the individual level that would quickly lead to a national crisis.
thefisherman1961 8y ago
You can't just force it on some people. Laws apply to everybody, not just certain people.
Having no government does not mean we would not have a way of protecting ourselves from invasion.
Because the selfishness of the collective is somehow superior to the selfishness of the individual? Who are you to decide whether the selfishness of the individual is immoral or not, so long as he is not initiating force against other individuals?
seattleron 8y ago
What? National defense is a hell of a lot different than fucking forcing people to buy something from the free market like healthcare.
Good fucking Lord.
Manuel_S 8y ago
Strange how so much faith is put in corporations by americans. You truly believe it works better if unregulated. We don't trust them so much, or politicians for that matter. They will abuse always when given the chance.
Its a different paradigm. In europe, going bankrupt because of bad health is seen as, quite simply, uncivilized.
Quite the opposite over there. It feels like you enjoy knowing that someone couldn't afford insurance and got crippled or dead because of it. Makes you feel good, because of course it wouldn't happen to you. He should have taken responsibility and so on. There's a lesson in moral for all to see, may the grave not spit his loser ass out again.
Then again, when accident strikes and people fall in trouble, thats when the tune changes.
Best doctors in the world and all that, but I'd still take my chances with any european medical system than in the states.
Don't think I'm going "USA sucks, hooray europe" here; there is great stuff in america.
But you can keep your healthcare and student debt system. They seem abusive systems to us, and so do your marriage laws. I know often you automatically think your system must be always better, but I'll give you an example any TRPer will understand.
Know how a prenup works here? When marrying, there's 3 options: Full communion of property, communion of acquired property, full separation. Done. No challenging afterwards. You only use prenups to protect children you already have. Alimonies to be granted are only in case of need if the spouse doesn't work, and limited. Yes there is child support, but it is capped - it doesn't baloon with your salary. The court does not say you have a earning capacity of X. You have what you have.
Yes being foolish and getting a house together is always going to be a mess, but its not nearly as crippling a system.
thefisherman1961 8y ago
You are confused. I don't support the existence of corporations, period, because they are inventions of the state; they do not exist in a free market. The current U.S. healthcare system is a statist system and I do not support it either. It is not free market in any way shape or form.
Besides, just because I support people voluntarily taking care of the poor and sick instead of using violent coercion to take care of them does not mean I enjoy seeing people in anguish. That's a dishonest straw man and you know it.
As far as student loan debt goes, college was also insanely cheap in the US half a century ago. The reason it's not is because the US govt backs student loans, which creates a moral hazard, and therefore colleges have no incentive to control their costs.
[deleted] 8y ago
OMG I never read such a big bullshit before.
Corportations are not the consequences of the state, corportations are the consequences of the Economies of scale.
Corporations appear naturally in an open market.
And when they get too big, they tend to take the control of every thing: The market (that is no more free), the state, the whole society.
That why full free market is unstable and need a regulation.
thefisherman1961 8y ago
You don't know what you're talking about. A corporation is a legal entity created by the state. They do not exist in the free market naturally.
Once again you are confused because it is the other way around. When the state gets too big, it empowers corporations to also take over the economy. There is not a single instance in recorded history of a monopoly existing that wasn't the result of government benefitting a group or individual at the expense of competitors.
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thefisherman1961 8y ago
And it's easier to post these views in this sub because the people around here are much more open minded when it comes to free market economics because they perfectly describe the pricing structure (SMV/value of a pussy/etc) in the dating world. In any of the default subs, I would have been downvoted immediately.
olican101 8y ago
Come to the UK, you have no reason to fear here, we have public healthcare but our policeman don't have guns.
thefisherman1961 8y ago
Your healthcare is almost 3 times more expensive per person than the U.S. healthcare system was in 1960. You also have 1.2 times the amount of murders per gun that Switzerland has. Both of those facts terrify me.
olican101 8y ago
Right. But the value of the GBP and USD has changed since the 1960s... and we're working on the gun thing.
thefisherman1961 8y ago
I adjusted for inflation.
Just like you've been "working" on the healthcare thing and it's still 3x more expensive and not as high quality as it should be. That doesn't make me feel any better.
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thefisherman1961 8y ago
http://i.imgur.com/NlCny6i.png
That is U.S. healthcare spending. The blue line is combined government and private spending in the U.S. as a percent of GDP. The red line is just government spending as a percent of GDP. As you can see, there is a very strong correlation between the amount the US government is involved in the healthcare system and how expensive it is.
In 1960, the US was spending about 5.25% GDP on healthcare, when our population was 180.7 million. GDP was 543.3 billion, so we were spending $157.85/year/person. Adjusted for inflation to 2013 dollars, that is $1242.30/year/person.
http://i.imgur.com/dofVRA9.png
In 2013, the UK was spending about 7.75% UK GDP, when its population was 64.1 million. UK GDP was $2.678 trillion USD in 2013, so they were spending about $3237.83/year/person.
That's a factor of 2.6 times what the US was spending in 1960 in healthcare. That's completely unacceptable and absolutely pathetic that that is the best example of what government-run healthcare can do. Can you imagine how low spending on healthcare would been in the US had it been a totally free market system?
seattleron 8y ago
It would not only be known as the best quality of care like it is now, but it would also be known as the ideal example around the world.
But the new generation of socialists would have fucked it up sooner or later. It's so hilarious to hear these guys from other countries champion their healthcare. Yeah, it's "free" but you get about half your paycheck while I get 80% of mine, and you don't have a bill when you go to the hospital, but your care is a C whilst mine is an A fucking plus. Yeah, it's expensive as hell, but I do not care, you get what you pay for.
[deleted] 8y ago
When I look at you first curve I see that the money spend on healthcare increased before the governement healthcare funding.
To be faire we need to put the Purchasing power of us citizen as a comparison and I am pretty sure that we will see that the evolution cost of health care costs followed the growth of purshasing power.
The data that you give are an argument in favor of government regulation on the price of healthcare.
thefisherman1961 8y ago
Except we don't know what the data was doing before 1960, so it doesn't show any such thing.
roteroktober 8y ago
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/04/what-american-healthcare-can-learn-from-germany/360133/
they have statistics for the cost per capita, the US being the msot expensive.
thefisherman1961 8y ago
I'm talking about in the 60s, not today. US healthcare costs are outrageous.
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[deleted] 8y ago
So if I understand, you prefer die in front of the supposed best hospital in the world because you can't afford treatment than receive a good treatment in Germany?
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roteroktober 8y ago
you can opt out and get private insurence.
why you woule believe that a coperation without any rules would have your best interests in mind is beyond me. you have so little trust in a gov. (i admit, i wouldnt trust the american gov. either) but a coperation in a completely free market, they wouldnt ecxploit you, right? they wouldnt eventually build a monopoly and do whatever the fuck they want for profit.
glottony 8y ago
Let them build the monopoly. For as long as it isn't law, the people will prevail.
thefisherman1961 8y ago
That's not opting out. That's having the choice between government insurance, private insurance, or jail.
Because if they don't serve their customers' best interests, they fail.
Corporations and monopolies are both inventions of the state. They don't exist in a free market.
roteroktober 8y ago
but they dont. just take AT&T or the banks. they failed and yet they were bailed out. or how about your food thats so full of any kind of chemicals that it influences your hormones. or fracking. yeah corporations really care.
come back to earth please. just take microsoft.
thefisherman1961 8y ago
Who bailed them out?
They do that because the state subsidizes farming corporations to kill off their competitors. Even if consumers want to buy organic food, they are no match for the state holding people up at gunpoint and giving it to farming corporations like Monsanto to kill off the competitors that consumers want. You can thank the government entirely for the corruption of our food supply.
You also ignored the part of my post that said corporations are inventions of the state. The state and the corporation are essentially the same thing. So if I distrust the state, why would I have any faith in corporations?
The biggest polluting entity in the US is the federal government, and yet for some reason ironically you believe that it cares about you and the environment. I don't believe that corporations or the state are capable of regulating the environment, because both destroy the environment. The free market is the only way.
Wrong again. Microsoft's monopoly was the result of the U.S. government's terrible IP laws.
mrp3anut 8y ago
So do I get a say in what he gets treated for? Does the sick guy get free sex changes because he's unhappy, or do women get free boob jobs to help their depression? Who decides how much medical professionals earn? Is there a limit on how much any one person leeches from the system or do I have to pay for an ambulance and an er visit every time little Timmy scrapes his knee?
The fundamental problem with this idea is that the individual doesn't gave any incentive to use the service sparingly nor do they have any say in how the money is spent.
Keep believing that humanity will ever sustain a system like the fairytale you seem to believe in.
savoryprunes 8y ago
Very few people go the the doctor for fun. I understand holding a low regard for humanity in general but yours is unrealistically low. People can call an ambulance for a scraped knee right now. They don't because they are not as stupid and melodramatic as you'd like to think. Yes they are stupid and melodramatic. They're just not as bad as you seem to believe. Your claims are dramatically overblown.
mrp3anut 8y ago
I have seen otherwise but considering you took that exaggeration literally here are a few very realistic things people will go to the doctor for.
Sex changes/hormone therapy, and considering the current state of gender politics it would never be limited to male/female and you will end up paying for other people to become real life curries.
Plastic surgery: All it takes is a little feelz before realz logic to get boob jobs and face lifts classified as treatment for depression or some other vague illness.
Sexual performance drugs such as Viagra or BC, and you will still pay for the births/abortions when the dumb ones forget to use the pill.
People that opted out on some level, I.e. tax penalty instead of having coverage, while young and/or healthy then immediately get coverage once they have some major need for insurance.
.If you don't force people to be responsible for themselves they won't. Most will be perfectly happy as a useless yuppy having all their "needs" provided to them by those that are productive.
roteroktober 8y ago
germany does. its cheaper and more effective than the american version.
why would you? the doctor and patient decide that
maybe they do and as you correctly pointed out its not free. both payed taxes as well. its no different from somebody in the USA only that the rich pay the healthcare of the poor. wich in the US, they could effort 10 times over.
they do, because its not actually fun to get surgery or whatever. also, his doctor will not provide unnecessary service.
Stories_of_Red 8y ago
I think the point being made is, no, Germany does not, once you extend the trend. Demography is destiny.
You just self-identified as an ignoramus regarding economics.
NoFap_Newb 8y ago
Look, dumbass, if there are no ill effects in ten years, then there will never be any ill effects ever, forever! /s
I swear so many people refuse to look at long term effects of social policy. Everyone has become a corporate board of one, only looking at the results for the current quarter. They seem to think that people will never change their behavior unless the central planners want them to.
Stories_of_Red 8y ago
Don't forget to insist that incentives---particularly tax rates on income--don't matter. /s
Love that one.
ChairBorneMGTOW 8y ago
Yeah, and you mollycoddle the German population with too much comfort and security, and they stop breeding.
Face it - making the world "fair" and "secure" and "comfortable" and "affluent" eventually destroys our will to live. For 20,000 years we sustained ourselves through our drive to overcome adversity. Remove adversity and we lose our drive.
That's why socialism always fails.
roteroktober 8y ago
OR maybe, thats not the reason, MAYBE its the marriage/ divorce/ custody laws? maybe its the disloyal women, or any other reason.
but no, its the socialist healthcare, thats cheaper, more effective, creates billions of profits for insurence companies, hospitals and doctors while providing treatment for all people in germany. THATS the issue, fucking right.
get out of here.
ChairBorneMGTOW 8y ago
America has shit marriage / divorce / custody laws. But their birth rate is a lot higher than almost all of Europe. Difference? One has allowed their citizenry too become too complacent, too comfortable... And the other hasn't. Yet.
savoryprunes 8y ago
You'll find a lot of good ol' fashioned red-blooded-American-style social Darwinism here. I think the negative attitude toward any socialist policies is usually a matter of projection. These same individuals revere capitalism to a fault. Could you imagine what would happen if we allowed for private ownership of the military and/or police?! I sometimes wonder if the staunch capitalists actually entertain this idea. Scary.
sayaliander 8y ago
Danke, Alter!
Versteh bis heute nicht, wie Amerika ihren Bullshit ernst nehmen und sogar verteidigen können
I think, I'll never grasp the "logic" of americans, when it comes to patriotism and capitalism<>socialism
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roteroktober 8y ago
when you get sick you will money as well. and you will get sick. and your wife, children, brother, friends. everybody profits, you are not left out.
curiousthis 8y ago
I'm going to put on my old-person hat and explain the way insurance works: When you buy health insurance, the insurer figures out ("guesses") their potential liability and puts you into a group. And all the members of that group subsidize each other.
Have health insurance through your work? Congratulations. You're paying for Bob in accounting who lives on fast food and cola, refuses to listen to his doctor and ends up having to go to the emergency room about every year. You'll end up paying for his hip replacement and stent/bypass surgery too.
Don't have health insurance through work, but have bought your own? Congratulations: you are a member of the group that consists of everyone with your demographics who have purchased their own insurance, and you're paying for supporting the sickest members of that group.
You don't have to buy health insurance now if you don't want to either. But it will cost you :
Consider it the cost of doing business.
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roteroktober 8y ago
the benefit you recieve is far greater then the prize you pay.
seattleron 8y ago
What benefit do I receive to paying 75% more for insurance while my choice of DRs got smaller and my deductible went up?
Please explain my benefits? Your benefits may have went up, but that's only because it's coming on the backs of others. That should be motivation enough to want to take care of yourself rather than relying on the sweat of others.
curiousthis 8y ago
a. you are subsidising other people just by doing your thing. For example, when you buy gasoline, you're subsidizing all the states that have cheaper gas than yours. Insurance is no different.
b. You're welcome to opt out without paying a fine. Obama left a huge loophole in the law that lets you do that -- I've commented elsewhere in this thread, but the bot won't let me link to it.
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Evileddie13 8y ago
If you want an America, where it's every man for himself, then that's fine. I'm sure I can find an immigrant to do you job at 90% less than what you make with no bathroom breaks.Get cancer? Fuck you. Work 18 hours a day and get sick? Fuck you, your fired. You suck for not being rich. Want a raise? Fuck you, you are lucky to have a job. Your fired for asking. I think it would be great to live in a world where nothing but profit mattered.
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Evileddie13 8y ago
You should read 'Jenifer Government'
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Evileddie13 8y ago
And when someone kills someone you love, you have to pay for that too. The police, in the book, have an 80% solvency rate. It might cost you 3 years wages...wait...you just got fired.
seattleron 8y ago
Lol - yeah, so realistic. That's what's going to happen, cost you 3 years salary to call 911.
Christ almighty.
neoj8888 8y ago
The only way to rid the body of cancer is to destroy it, without exception. The only way we're ever going to rid ourselves--our society--of this insanity, this cancer, is a full-on, merciless offensive. Protection, and defensive tactics, will only ever be a means to slow it from getting worse.
satanicpriest13 8y ago
Enjoy the decline. It's going to be a long time before it gets better, if it does at all.
sunshine103 8y ago
"Protect yourself" (?) I'm thinking that's what caused the problem!
Stradivorius 8y ago
The old "Fight fire with fire" adage only goes so far.
Anderfail 8y ago
See the problem is not socialism or feminism, it's that they aren't being applied correctly and that we need to be more diligent in their implementation!
manslutalt 8y ago
"XML is like violence: if it doesn't solve your problem, you aren't using enough of it."
tbpd 8y ago
While most of us here, if not all, know how much feminism negatively affects our society, I think it is a mistake to place exclusive blame on the movement for the perils we face today. The reason why we have a problem supporting our aging populations is that a good amount of our tax dollars/euros go directly to interests for state loans. Where politicians all over the world fail in fixing the economic troubles, there seems to be evidence of wrongful care for the economy. Until we discover the core economic issues lying before us, we can't hope to cure ourselves of these perils even in a world without feminism. The way things are set up right now we will need a continuous growth in population and subsequent inflation of our currency to stave off bankruptcy. It won't even last that long should this actually happen.
TL;DR: Even though feminism has a negative effect on societal cohesion, our economic troubles stem from a wrongful understanding, and use, of our economies. No political wing will be able to amend this without first realising the core issues such as modern banking, inflation, and bubble-economies.
olican101 8y ago
It doesn't. "Feminism" is not a bad thing. Women claiming to be feminists to gain superiority are a bad thing. Think of it this way. One is a black man, fighting for his rights. The other, is a black man that has painted his face literally the colour black screaming "if you don't give me free stuff you're racist." actual Feminists hate these people as much as you or i.
tbpd 8y ago
So... No true scotsman?
My point is this: as long as feminism drives legislation forward that negatively affects society, feminism is, consequently, a destructive movement.
olican101 8y ago
But it doesnt. True feminists are people that believe males and females should be equal. They just focus on the woman's issues.
tbpd 8y ago
I won't keep arguing about what a "real" feminist is. It's simply not for me to determine. I need only look at legislation and tendencies in our society to discover the impact of the movement, true feminists or not.
olican101 8y ago
Feminism: advocating social, political, legal, and economic rights for women equal to those of men. That is the definition.
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iDont_too 8y ago
You guys are too busy fucking plates and avoiding marriage, in the middle east there is a different culture, the women take a submissive role in the house, hence they have a good combination of redpill philosophy and manage a have lots of kids at the same time.
h4wk 8y ago
Spoken like a true beta fag. German women don't want to breed with blue pill beta males. Blame the muslims.
Heizenbrg 8y ago
Fuck that's what's happening in my home town in northern Italy. All I saw when I visited were halal shops open at 2am. Italy also has a problem of low birthrate and too many migrants.
It is however more of an economic decision, fortunately it's still a country that has not been plagued with feminists, alpha men dominate.
When people will start spending more we will be on top of the other Feminists euros, and hopefully our teams will catch up too.
TheRedThrowAwayPill 8y ago
Brace yourself : Ramadan is coming.
They'll be open at 4am
cariboo_j 8y ago
Hitting those falafel shops at 2am and not drinking.
cariboo_j 8y ago
According to Islam a man can have up to 4 wives
Zagooda 8y ago
I think TRP is the only place on internet that no one will blame muslims for that. And I'm happy to see that's true.
For the others: You don't want muslims? Perfect. Handle your own shit and don't let them do your job and take your money. Fucking breed and don't become a minority in your own country. You will probably lose those taxi drivers, shawarma and kebab makers but hey we all know that "you can't have your cake and eat it, too"
cariboo_j 8y ago
Muslims aren't a problem in and of themselves. The ones we have in Canada are well behaved.
Europe seems to take in the pushy and militant ones that feel the need to shove their religion in everyone else's face, demand special treatment and even demand non Muslims follow their rules.
Those Muslims can fuck off and go back to their shitty theocratic countries. Too bad Europe is too spineless and PC to tell them to fuck off.
DaphneDK 8y ago
Immigrants from Africa and the Middle East are not just desperately fleeing whatever conditions, and willing to go anywhere. They're very much aware of and discerning as to which country they want to go to, and deliberately chose countries with a high level of welfare. EU agencies have documented this quite thoroughly. There are even Facebook groups and various Internet sites dedicated to listing all the pros & cons of each destination and the immigrants surf these on their smart phones. This means European nations with generous welfare states attract those that want to benefit from the welfare states, whereas places like Canada/USA attracts those with ambitions that want to make use of the opportunity to work hard and make life for themselves.
Many of the immigrants to Europe are Christians however. Both those from Syria and those from Africa.
[deleted] 8y ago
Well no. The trouble comes from what writen in Quran , especially surah 5 and 9.
Educated muslim are able to distance themselves from their religion but under educated muslims, that are also made fragile by their economical situation are prone to be problematic.
And the problem is that the european goverments are actually importing mass of low educated musilm, so guess what will follow.
cariboo_j 8y ago
Oh yeah Islam followed literally is problematic. It's the only major religion I'm aware of that is also a political system. Separation of church and state is pretty much impossible for a devout Muslim.
I'm just saying the educated westernized Muslims (in Canada at least) aren't usually a problem because they are able to rationalize away the more extreme parts of the Quran. And perhaps they are made complacent and have more to lose because of their high paying jobs. They're peaceful in spite of their religion, not because of it.
TheRedThrowAwayPill 8y ago
Allahhuuuuaakkkbar.... err ... I'm sorry, I mean surely Ze Germans can efficiently realize that replacing themselves with outsiders (and forcing those round outsiders into square pegs so they can also count as "Germans") can only go so far.
At least with integration they avoid Japan's fate.
CharlieIndiaShitlord 8y ago
Just a small anecdote here.
Years ago a Mosque opened up in Calgary, AB. Very early one morning, they started up with their usual 'call to prayer', with loudspeakers, at about 4am.
For about 10 minutes this continued, at which point an unidentified pickup truck drove by and blew away the loudspeakers with a shotgun.
The police were called, they took a statement, but there weren't really any leads they could follow up on.
The Mosque replaced the loudspeakers. The next morning, 4am sharp, the call to prayer once again commenced, blaring through the loudspeakers, once again waking up half the neighbourhood, a good portion of whom fall into the classification of 'redneck'.
10 minutes later, truck, shotgun, broken loudspeakers.
Thus ends the last time the Mosque had a call to prayer in Calgary, AB.
Respect peoples cultures, but don't piss off the natives.
TheRedThrowAwayPill 8y ago
lol. Hahahaa that shit is hilarious.
It makes no sense to extend the call beyond a human voice if there isn't anyone there to hear it. (And most loud speakers do not sound silky smooth either)
NotRoosterTeeth 8y ago
I live in NC and somthing I will forever remember in my life is the UNC Bell Tower controversy. People talk about the media changing stories to create more controversy, this is an extreme example. Just going to add I am very open to religions practicing the services of their religion, you will see below why I belive what I belive in the situation.
Typical News Report on the Bell Tower Controversy: Anti-Muslim Rednecks in North Carolina are trying to make it so Muslims can not practice their religious services.
To the best of my knowledge this is what happened : UNC says Muslim students can practice in a Cristian Bell Tower so they can seem open minded and religiously accepting. (Not a bad move on there part, they want to look good in the community). The problem is that is was a Cristian bell tower and if they had their services, the other religions that practiced there wouldn't be able to which is a large problem on Saturday and Sunday keeping in mind a large majority of the student base is Cristian or Jewish.
TL;DR : People should be able to practice their religion but not physically disturb others while they do it. Also the media blows situations involving stuff like this out of the water, be careful of the information you read.
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CharlieIndiaShitlord 8y ago
I always question the media narrative, it is usually bent. Like yourself, I'm fine with people doing what they want to do, practice their beliefs as they see fit. The caveat being that your actions can't infringe upon others.
If you immigrate to another culture, it is upon you to assimilate into that culture, not the other way around. There is a sane middle ground to be had, we just don't get to see it often enough.
denart4 8y ago
Lets see how many rights they will give women.
glottony 8y ago
Well if you can be specific about White European Germans, surely you can specify which Muslims you're talking about as well. What have you, Turks?
willmaster123 8y ago
People say that, but in reality the fastest dropping birth rate is muslim Europeans. They come here, and as time goes on either they or their kids have less and less kids.
Its the same thing how in the 1990s and early 2000s we thought Latinos would be half Americas population by 2030, and then throughout the past few years Latino birth rates plummeted (along with immigration) and now they say they Latinos will probably not be a majority in the next century.
[deleted] 8y ago
Migrants are not that stupid.
It takes just the time to understand the system and they do the same way than local people.
Mysonking 8y ago
since when theredpill is racist.
Fuck you. I am a muslim. I live in Europe. over the past 20 years I have created 10s of jobs at my position. I pay over 40.000 euros per year in taxes. And I am a decent human beings. Go spread your racism elsewhere
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[deleted] 8y ago
Just a question:
Among the 10 people you are employing , how much are not muslim?
Mysonking 8y ago
I work for a multinational in the Telecom Industry. I am based in Portugal. I have opened over the past 15 years 3 Competence Center here and have fought against "low cost" countries like India and China to keep the competence centers here. 100% of people are portuguese in these CC. Curiously one of the centers was setup with the help of some engineers from Egypt because at the time they were more skilled ( we had projects in Egypt and none yet in Portugal) and did train the portuguese staff.
Our biggest competitors are the chinese ( Huwaei and ZTE) and it is our everyday fight to keep the business and jobs here.
The centers have respectively : 18 persons + 20 persons + ~50-70 persons = 110 people total. I did directly participate in hiring of about 40 people from this centers and then move on to other acitivities. I did also participate in selling and implementing a main project that started a new area of activity that grew to employ around 50 people.
Just trying to answer in a civil manner to your obviously racist loaded question
[deleted] 8y ago
The words matter.
I didn't ask you how much of your employees are migrant, I didn't ask from which countries do your employees come, I asked you how much are not muslim, how much of your employee are not islam believer or comes from an islamic background.
If I asked this it is to check if the common accusation that muslim tend to prefer to give jobs to others muslim is true. Nothing racist there, just facts checking.
Roflsquad 8y ago
This actually fucking depresses me. The simple fact that these people with scientifically proven lower IQ-scores are taking over western societies and the media calls it cultural enrichment...
lifbali 8y ago
Sauce of Muslims having low IQ ?
[deleted] 8y ago
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iDont_too 8y ago
Red pill isn't revolutionary, it's also an old mindset or ideology that we're trying to revive in the wake of modern feminism.
SCLegend 8y ago
That is much more a product of imperialism and the random division of countries that followed. Sub Saharan Africa, parts of south east asia, and latin America have similar problems.
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Roflsquad 8y ago
https://www.questia.com/library/journal/1P3-2018704731/the-comparison-of-mean-iq-in-muslim-and-non-muslim
http://www.photius.com/rankings/national_iq_scores_country_ranks.html
Just google it yourself.
AlphaAccountant 8y ago
That's ranked by country and not by race. Put a white redneck in Muslim Uzbekistanistan where half of the school days he can't even get there cause some extremist read something, somewhere in a religious text, misinterpreted and extrapolated immensely and decided to try and kill almost everyone except himself and his inbred relatives and that white kid is going to be stupid.
Muslims gave us algebra. Do they want sharia law and all that shit? Yep, cause they know it's an effective way of handling female hypergamy in most cases.
When logic is abandoned, stupid shit happened.
larrythetomato 8y ago
Actually Arabic scholars gave us number theory, then their civilisation was destroyed by religious fanatics and haven't progress technologically since then.
Roflsquad 8y ago
Sigh... It doesn't matter if it's by country or by race- the effect will be the same. And yes your point is right, IQ-scores have a lot to do with environmental factors (btw did you know that afro-americans have lower IQ in general as well because of that?).
I'm not saying that Muslims are an inferior race, it's just that it's a lot of wasted potential due to their shitty cultures. For example, there are only 2 muslim nobel prize winners in the sciences although they make up like a big amount of the world's population.
Sorry to say that to you but it's wrong. The greeks are considered to be the fathers of Algebra way before the Muslims even existed.
IlliterateIllyrian 8y ago
They'll also be raping. Look at Sweden.
olican101 8y ago
You mean the Sweden that is 8th in the world in happiness? The Sweden that is 22nd in GDP? The Sweden that is the least Racist country in the world? The Sweden that is the least Homophobic country in the world?
I really, really, fail to see your point.
IlliterateIllyrian 8y ago
I don't give a shit about any of those things you mentioned, as I didn't even post about it.
I'm saying that Sweden is literally being labeled the rape capital of Europe, because of your precious multiculturalism.
olican101 8y ago
It's being named the rape capital because more people report rapes. Not because there ARE more rapes. This is a good thing. Not a bad thing.
IlliterateIllyrian 8y ago
What a coincidence.
Face it, your country is going to shit and there is no end in sight. Sorry if you're a native Swede.
olican101 8y ago
Crime is 300% more likely to be reported and rape is 1,472% more likely to be reported. What's your point?
And yes, the law has been changed to increase what is classed as rape. Multiple times.
I am not from Sweden but I have been. And it's a whole lot better than any other country I've been to.
IlliterateIllyrian 8y ago
Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? Why would a whole demographic of people just decide to begin to report crime at a huge rate like that? Do you really think small changes to laws would be the cause of such a dramatic increase? Stop believing the media; start believing in research and statistics.
Your anecdote doesn't mean shit (also it's not evidence). Of course it looks nice to you; you don't live there.
I'm done here. Peace.
olican101 8y ago
Because they passed a law which makes more things rape?
cariboo_j 8y ago
No no. Only white males have rape culture, against female university students.
Men getting raped in prison doesn't count. Neither do Muslims in Sweden or militants in the Congo, where 1 in 4 PEOPLE (aka women AND men) get raped.
The real rape culture is on American university campuses.
Also we must never criticize people with brown skin... Because colonialism or something.
[deleted] 8y ago
Swiss here, 60km from german border, similar culture.
Raising kids with femnazis gone wild in the government structure is a hell of a job. Last spring we were back from holidays late due to TAP pilot strike and our 3-grader missed 1 day of school. No problem?
We had "child protective services" harassing us for months now. They interrogate kids stasi style (intrrogate neighbor kids), they want us to pay a hefty fine, they try to send the police to ivestigate us and they are contemplating to put the kid in foster care. Because kid missed 1 FUCKING SCOOL DAY. No joke, i can provide the documents.
I would never want to miss my kids, its the best thing i have ever done. But i cant recommend it. There is too much CRAZY in education.
Barrebaron 8y ago
That's crazy.
Here in Sweden child protective services almost superseded country laws. They can do whatever they want to. My parents took in my nice because my sister got into bad crowd(drugs). It functions as a adoptive family, since otherwise she'd be taken in by complete strangers. The amount of shit my parents are forced to take in order to keep her is fucking enormous.
[deleted] 8y ago
Your child is not yours, it belongs to the State. They are letting you "raise" it because they don't want to traumatize their new slave so he can become a good "engineer".
jugol 8y ago
That's fucked up. That's 1984-tier fucked up.
RedBigMan 8y ago
Sounds like you need to emigrate where CPS retards cant fuck with your life.
[deleted] 8y ago
sounds just like the Dutch gestapo/Child Protection Agency
If your child misses one day of school, there will be hell to pay. Kids need their dailly dose of brainwashing!
TheJessee 8y ago
That's crazy and then they expect people to still make kids, when word goes around of things like that it's not long before the younger generation hears it too and just thinks "well fuck getting children"
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smokefreeyear 8y ago
It' really fucked up. They are trying to punish you because you took your kid in Urlaub and he had fun. I could understand their actions if you left the kid home alone, but so...
[deleted] 8y ago
Im waiting for the fine, which i wont pay. Then they might sue for the fine and and i will have a little speech in court. If i dont hire a lawyer this wont even cost me much.
Last time a company sued me they crumbled at the mandatory conciliation meeting and they payed me $280 for the 2 hours i lost.
Mister_Shitlord_2U 8y ago
Not that anybody notices, but this is happening in all the predominantly white countries. You have to look at the big picture. Social engineering, feminism, and the media have all led us by the nose to where we are now. Low birth rates in the population create a vacuum that needs to be filled.
Our governments, that are controlled by a rich elite, create vast incentives at taxpayers cost, for other races of people to move in and take over large parts of society. This causes wages to go down making them more profits at our expense. It creates a divide and conquor strategy to control the people. We waste so much time fighting each other and ignoring the real enemy, the elite themselves.
At the current trend, the white race could become an endangered species. Countries like Sweden, which are natively white, are being invaded at an incredible rate because of government policy and white people will soon be a minority in their own country.
CHAD_J_THUNDERCOCK 8y ago
Oy vey now careful what you say friend... your media would never lie to you...
[deleted] 8y ago
Oh no the white race is dying out! Are we really saying declining birth rates are an issue? Good job to feminism for inadvertently helping overpopulation, pollution, etc.
DannyDemotta 8y ago
I wouldnt strictly blame "the elites". Plenty of immigrant minorities (Indian, Korean, Russian in particular) are making a killing in America off the backs of (Liberal) White complacency and laziness. People too busy worrying about the "rigged" system to start a business - so immigrants happily do it for them (construction, cleaning, convenience, all of the above). Or they do start a business, overpay people, insist on local sourcing, etc etc, and go out of business. Boo hoo.
The White man gets little sympathy from me. RP immigrants all up in this bitch, and i love it.
savoryprunes 8y ago
For clarity, I don't believe it's our race that's the issue. It's our economic status. The middle class is being dismantled and it looks like the quickest and cheapest way to make this happen is by flooding the worker pool.
Merica911 8y ago
Here in the US, it's the blacks, hispanic, Muslims having all the kids. It takes a young, loving, upper class, married white couple to just produce 1 to 2 kids. Like you have to be in an elite class to have a fucking baby with white people when others are popping them out like no tomorrow.
Others don't wait until they're 10000% secure and ready to have a child because you'll never really be. Yes, some non white female groups would have under age pregnancies (under 18) which end up always being in the lower class of society because their late teens are the golden age for schooling. But the white class, wow, completely the other way, thinking age 35 is a good time to start a family were they're lucky to even have 1 to a black, Hispanic or Muslim 3.
[deleted] 8y ago
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Mister_Shitlord_2U 8y ago
Oh I am aware. Different words, same people in control.
Invalidity 8y ago
This is pretty much the nail on the head.
Double the supply of workers with feminism. I don't even believe the plummeting birth rate was an intended effect of their direction, but it's still functioning; they can bring in migrants to do the work.
The rich are intelligent, they want the money now, not later. It's a big "fuck you" to progress and society as a whole.
Temuzjin 8y ago
Intelligent maybe, but certainly not wise. They're very cleverly destabilizing society and making a huge profit from that, if this is intentional, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a revolution in one or two decades. That revolution might well be aimed at the 1% (or the 0.1%).
If I was an amoral rich guy, I'd prefer to make slightly less money now to avert the possible pitchforks in my future. That would be the wise thing to do.
Mister_Shitlord_2U 8y ago
What they really want is power. Money is just the vehicle that gets it for them. The richest people on the planet have more money than they could ever possibly spend. Once you have aquired that much your power hits a plateau.
So to gain even more power you have to take it away from others by making them poorer, by weakening them. Now the game isn't so much to gain money, but to take it from others. Its hard to fight someone when you are so busy just trying to put food on the table and keep a roof over your head.
laserdicks 8y ago
♂ This comment took me for a spin. Changed my view in a big way.
curiousthis 8y ago
It's actually happening everywhere in the world. It's being led by countries that are transitioning from agriculture to industry.
Yes, the west has seen the greatest declines, but that's also because the west industrialized earlier.
Mister_Shitlord_2U 8y ago
They cant allow anybody to gain too much wealth and power. I believe that they see white people as their greatest threat though.
fourbet 8y ago
I generally avoid this topic because it is inherently a touchy subject, but one thing the stormfront nuts point out a lot which I think holds up a bit is that it appears only western countries are really pushed to "embrace diversity".
The sheer arrogance of it all is also interesting. Essentially the super-inclusive left are declaring that European countries (and by default, culture) are naturally superior and as such they must be open to including people from other countries into this superior culture.
You rarely if ever see a SJW demanding Japan, Korea or Egypt take in more migrants. Don't have time to dig but this was the best article I could dig up.
I believe the incident in 1986 that they briefly reference was when the UN asked Japan to take in some war refugees, and the Prime Minister said something to the effect of "fuck off, Japan will remain a one race nation".
I may be mixing this up with another incident or even another country, so take that with a massive grain of salt.
[deleted] 8y ago
You see this even at the local level. Hispanics have been running blacks out of Compton of all places for a while now, and barely a word has been said.
CornyHoosier 8y ago
White people have been saying that about blacks for a long time.
NidStyles 8y ago
Not sure I would say elites. They all have a culture in common though.
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Mister_Shitlord_2U 8y ago
I don't really think they are that elite either. What else do you call the wealthiest people on the planet?
NidStyles 8y ago
The biggest spoiled children of the group. They are only wealthy because of the paper currencies. Had gold and silver still been the standard, they would be just as poor as the people they pay to make their socks. What fiat currencies did was allow them to hold onto their physical wealth and start out with contrived paper wealth.
[deleted] 8y ago
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[deleted] 8y ago
All you did is call him ignorant in five different ways using several paragraphs. Calling someone ignorant doesnt make it true. You have to actually explain why you disagree with him. You probably arent white, but its true. Whites arent breeding anywhere near as fast as blacks, middle easterners, some asians (not japan), and other ethicities. Personally i dont really care, i dont have any obsession with racial purity and ill be long dead before white people are extinct, but the truth is the truth.
[deleted] 8y ago
You say you don't care but you're taking guesses at my own ethnicity, and reinforcing the fact whites aren't breeding as fast as other ethnicities. It sort of makes me think you do care. Even if it is mixed with a bit of nihilism. (I'll be long dead when this happens so whatever)
Solringen, it's too easy to give into fear mongering. This sounds like something a right wing politician babbles to get votes from frightened, low information voters.
Especially with words like invasion, endangered species, other races moving in and taking over.
I wish I had the time to sit down with you -face to face- and explain to you why this is ignorant fear mongering. I really do.
chairmobile 8y ago
lel concedes all arguments while taking the high ground
what a guy
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[deleted] 8y ago
No i really dont. Stop trying to read my mind. I told you i do not care, pointing out facts doesnt suddenly mean i care. There is no fear mongering, its the simple fucking truth. I dont even vote, and i wouldnt support someone just because they said this, again doesnt mean its not true. I never said anything about invasions or taking over either, seems to me you are just drawing conclusions. Still doesnt change the fact that non whites are reproducing faster than whites. But again, i do not intend to have children, i will die before it affects me in any way, and even though i am mostly white i am not a pure blooded blonde european neo nazi. I have some none white in me, this literally has nothing to do with racism or me wanting the "purity" to remain.
[deleted] 8y ago
It's a lack of courage on your part, to state a point -fervently- and then to say, but alas I have no stake in the game.
That's like me saying, I absolutely hate onions in my food, but I don't care really because it all comes out as poo.
I'm not going to address your other points unless we can even agree about the level of intellectual dishonesty that's happening here.
You can't state "facts" without implying something. We don't live in a vacuum, brother. You aren't a computer running binary code, compiling and distributing data without implying anything. But you're stopping half way, because what you want to say is a general sentiment that doesn't hold any value anymore, and isn't accepted socially. And I know you aren't socially retarded, as in the technical term, not the slang youth use in the states.
[deleted] 8y ago
I honestly dont get what your point is man. Not everything is important to everyone. The sun will swallow the earth in a couple of million years, thats a fact, but its not important to me. Everything is subjectively important, every fact. This too is a fact. That non whites breed faster than whites nowadays. Do i care? No. This fact is not important to me. Thats my point. What is yours? Maybe i am stupid but i dont get what your are trying to say. Your analogies arent helping much either. I would love it if you could just simply state what is the problem you are having with my statement on breeding rates.
[deleted] 8y ago
There are classes such as ethics in philosophy and logic, or journalism ethics, that deal with this. I don't know if you are college age or not, and I don't want to insult you.
What i'm saying is you're statements are so subversive, and there's some logical fallacy you're running into i'm trying to point out to you.
Even if germany's birth rates for the arian race are slowing down and brown people are having more kids, that doesn't mean white people in germany are dying out. There's a thing called a saturation point, where a species or a group reaches a point it doesn't have the same birthing rates it used to, and it's not because it's dying out. It's because it's at the top of the food chain.
I'm going to try and simplify this ''analogy'' for you so I hope you can understand. We are driving on a highway and you tell me a bunch of honda civics are accelerating like crazy going from 50 mph to 65 mph, but we're sitting in a f1 formula car going 200 mph, and we aren't accelerating. It's a steady speed.
And you're so worried about the fact those honda civics are accelerating, but it's out of context, they're never going to catch up with that formula 1 car that doesn't need to accelerate, it's going 200 mph.
I hope that simplifies it for you.
fyreNL 8y ago
Other statistics i found stated that Germany has a birth rate of 1.43, which pretty low (even for European standards) but not that low. Japan has a birth rate of 1.42, so it's possible it shifted lower than Japan (either Japan's increased, unlikely, but possible), but it still has higher birth rates than Slovenia, Romania, Greece, Lithuania and Serbia. Source
Also, the lowest in the world are Singapore (0,80), Macau(0,93), Taiwan (1,11) and Hong Kong (1,17). The lowest one in Europe belongs to Lithuania, at 1.29
Now, i do know these statistics are from last year, but a birth rate dropping from 1.43 to lower than 0.80 is pretty much impossible, so which source is true?
[deleted] 8y ago
Caged animals (men) are known to stop breeding once they realize they are trapped.
Ovadox 8y ago
Wow, that distills this whole post into one sentence. Nice work.
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cariboo_j 8y ago
This was never a reality. Women were never like that. Sexual relationships have always been transactional in nature.
MGTOW in my opinion is simply the logical response once you fully grasp and internalize the nature of women.
(And no, MGTOW =/= celibate.)
[deleted] 8y ago
You can break anything down into a transaction, even the love you have with your parents. That doesn't mean it isn't real or worth anything.
Traz_Onmale 8y ago
[Women are opting out of breeding, not men.]( http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/wellness/dating/story/2011/02/men-women-flip-the-script-in-gender-expectation/43219110/1)
Bwhitty23 8y ago
So men are the animals in captivity that may live longer but ache to return to the wild. Once they step out of this cage then their life gets shorter but they are acting how they are meant to act and love it. I like your analogy.
[deleted] 8y ago
better to burn out than fade away
Bwhitty23 8y ago
For sure. I rather die at 60 enjoying my life then be 70+ and have the loss of my mental and physical abilities dictate my life.
Hank711 8y ago
Well, honestly, a plummeting population bouyed by immigration isn't the worst -- natives will have a comparative advantage on the job market, creating upward mobility. Declining population raises the value of labor and lowers the value of capital. It explains the increase in wages after WWII.
csehszlovakze 8y ago
Economic reasons my ass. Here the gypsies fuck like rabbits and have shitload of kids because of a shitty economic status. Why? Because the government gives money after children, and the more children, the more money (eg. having 3 "pays" more than triple money after a single kid), and they basically can live like this. Yeah, shitty conditions, higher crime rate, but they don't care. If they don't have enough, some will simply commit crimes to get more money. Almost every non-sjw feels a huge disdain towards them at least, some outright hate them.
dongpal 8y ago
german women are like they have stick in their ass. every women I chat up with asked me within first minute what job I have. all they care is about money. people complaning about US having too many sluts, I can only tell you its better to have some sluts than no one whats so ever. since im half polish I search for them instead, they are way more "alive" , enjoy their life way more.
BhiQ 8y ago
Gotta stick to the more alternative crowd. Lots of promiscuity there.
You're right though, if you absolutely want to avoid sticking your dick in crazy you're pretty much restricted to LTRs.
[deleted] 8y ago
If anyone's question when meeting you is "what do you do for a living?" I find that pretty suspicious, like they aren't looking to be friends, but rather "business partners".
just_lift 8y ago
Oh come on, it's just small talk. Working takes up a big percentage of my waking time. It obviously shapes who you are and it also tells you about what kind of person you are since you made that particular choice of profession. It gives you a lot to talk about and it's a normal and good question when getting to know somebody. It doesn't have to be about money.
[deleted] 8y ago
Dated the German foreign exchange student in high school. Super hot with equally low self esteem. Her entire self worth was derived from Facebook likes. We fucked within two weeks of speaking to each other, and she claimed I was her second ever. Mind you at this point I was still extremely blue pill beta, and of all my past encounters with women this confuses me the most. All the other girls I either got with or was rejected by can easily be explained by redpill philosophy. Maybe German girl severely underrated her smv despite hundreds of likes on literally all of her Facebook posts?
[deleted] 8y ago
And you still believe that after swallowing TRP?
GuitarsAreGettingOld 8y ago
Perhaps yours did. But unfortunately it's not common for German girls. Quite the opposite sadly.
BhiQ 8y ago
Was she alternative in any way? Tattoos, uncommon taste in music, bright hair, piercings, etc?
[deleted] 8y ago
No, very stereotypical upper middle class white chick. Obsessed with Hollister (and now works there) because it's cool still in Germany I guess?
[deleted] 8y ago
No, it's because no one flirts in certain European countries and there's abundance of hot girls, so they don't really feel special.
In my country, no one hits on girls outside the bar scene and not before downing two or three beers. Daytime flirting does not exist, it's simply not a thing. On top of that, men here are quite timid - not effeminate, quite masculine in fact, but their behaviour is so inhibited - I assume a lot of it is because of feminism - hell, when I grew up the idea of complimenting a girl makes me anxious because I'm scared she'll get offended. (Yes, I genuinely think a girl will be offended if I compliment her.)
So you've got a country where men have internalized flirting as being disrespectful and borderline sexual harassment, and literally got half a country's population starved for attention regardless of how attractive they are.
I assume it's a similar situation in Germany but maybe not as extreme.
4nn1h1l4tor 8y ago
It's EXACTLY the same in Germany. The only people who "know how to game" are not particularly smart.
[deleted] 8y ago
trust me, they are all sluts, to the right guy.
German women love to come to my country to 'study' (aka party their ass of).
dongpal 8y ago
yes, the right guy. in germany its not top 20% but top 10%. the typical chad thundercock is extremly rare. I know only two persons in my life personally who are good with women (but only in clubs), they also live in the biggest cities so I dont even see them anymore.
the standard in germany is very high. for example they look at what car you drive way more than in other countries because its the biggest status symbol in germany
Deresetese 8y ago
Your example can't really be used as an example.
Germans are obsessed with cars, it's not simply the biggest status symbol. Under right circumstances it can be the only relevant one.
So long as you are not homeless (even not working can be ignored to a degree as it still does yield an acceptable income, if you are not working for a short amount of time and some income if you are not working for an extended period of time), having a good car is often seen as the only factor in status.
This is caused by public transportation being used mostly by young people and to a degree poor people and the german's history with producing cars.
Also, because the Autobahn doesn't have a speed limit, being able to drive at high speed has a totally different level of appeal.
As for your other point, the alphas being rarer, what do you base this on ? It may very well be true but I can't see any reason as to why this would be the case.
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dongpal 8y ago
life experience. are you german? every german will agree that cars are the biggest status symbol. also , if you are not working and seen as "harz 4 empfänger" than you are fuckd
4nn1h1l4tor 8y ago
Cars are not as important you make them out to be. I am a student without a car. Still more alpha than 80-90%.
Deresetese 8y ago
I am german, I didn't mean not working as in being long term unemployed.
Also, I did agree that cars are the biggest status symbol and far more than that. I just think using cars as an example for high standarts doesn't work as it can very well be the only relevant standart a woman might have for you.
And yeah, of course you base that observation on life experience, I was just curious as to what could cause this.
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denart4 8y ago
AWALT, people should stop making these "American women are xyz." posts/posters. Women are women. Nothing can change their nature.
dongpal 8y ago
theres a thing called culture, social environment, media and many other factors which change from location to location. it changes people you know. thats one of the reason why germany has the lowest birthrate of the world ..
denart4 8y ago
How did all of that come to existence? Instinct is at the base of all of it.
dongpal 8y ago
of course they wanna fuck, im not saying their whole nature is different. but they have been conditioned to different things. I also dont know a single slut in my whole friend cycle. The whole slut / chad thing is either in extremly big cities or exceptions.
DreadLockedHaitian 8y ago
have some sluts than no one whats so ever.
German women put out for foreigners. And I say foreigners because my Aussie classmates were doing just as well with the ladies, as us Americans. To be honest, we were getting crazy love.
Bwhitty23 8y ago
I found this true. Unfortunately I didn't score cause when I went I was way worse. I noticed all the females I was around were flirty as hell but I couldn't bring myself to act. I think it was because I was one of the few black people they've seen as they wanted to touch my hair. It could be a fluke but even the classmates that went along with me didn't have quite the attention I got. What I would give to do that over again with the knowledge I have now. Can't wait till I go back.
DreadLockedHaitian 8y ago
My White friends got pussy too but yeah lol I was grabbing chicks who I would've thought were out of my league.
Bwhitty23 8y ago
Yeah this one chick I was digging seemed to want to fuck. The whole trip every time we all hung out I would flirt with her and one time she said I should go back to her house and give her an oily massage. I was desperately asking the other people for oil neglecting the fact that I didn't actually need it to try and fuck. Another time she asked how big my dick was and felt my leg but we were in a group setting with beer and bowling so I was into the game and my friends. I don't know how I let these two opportunities go away. She had a boyfriend so I rationalized it as she just might be flirty and this means nothing. 1.5 years later and I'm still mad at myself.
RPL23 8y ago
we all have those moments when knowledge helps us understand the past. it's painful, bro. i've been there. but take that pain and anger and make the future even better than your past.
the last 10 years sucked? make the next 10 better.
also, not sure why you and u/DreadLockedHaitian are getting downvoted, but it's probably from butt-hurt white supremacists who are pissed that non-white guys like us get white pussy. smash and dash, stay strong bros!
DreadLockedHaitian 8y ago
Hell yeah lol I was more into the chicks of Turkish descent though. Or mixed. Germany has some dope ass mulattoes.
letter_of_reprimand 8y ago
Where was this, if you don't mind my asking?
DreadLockedHaitian 8y ago
Kassel, Berlin, Frankfurt, Kaufungen, etc. Pretty much anywhere we went. The Aussies told me that Munich was great.
London-Bananas 8y ago
Can confirm, I live in Germany and to make it all worse I'm a mechanical engineer. In Germany being a mechanical engineer is like the super sayan BB profession. Above lawyers and doctors even. It is every family's dream to marry off their daughters to mechanical engineers here.
Although I obviously have plates, the concept of non-LTR sex is not nearly as common as in the US, UK or Australia.
Man_Jose 8y ago
Completely tangent, but I ROFLed at this. Part of me sometimes wonders how jokes like this would fly with women.
CyberFi 8y ago
The career does not make the man. You can present yourself as a "disposable lighter repairman" and if you play it right women are still going to fall head over heels in love, I guarantee it's just a matter of calibrating your game and generating attraction. I can't imagine the social influence of German women to be that hardwired into their minds.
What is hardwired into her brain are the primal attraction switches that persisted since the dawn of man. Not to mention, as we all know, women are calibrated to follow their emotions before logic. Sure you're gonna hear "I'm not gonna sleep with a man unless I'm married to him and he's a millionaire" but as soon as a confident, carefree alpha swoops in her eyes widen and said thoughts suddenly vanish.
ObservantOmega 8y ago
Bingo, you can be a self-employed wannabe writer and still pull women in Germany if you can present yourself. Most engineers etc. in Germany are wimps and easily turned into BB while she enjoys the attention of an alpha (or as is the case with many women that I know, a hung black immigrant).
kaiwanxiaode 8y ago
I'm not German so I don't really know the full situation but my gosh when i was in Berlin there was plenty of casual sex to be had for all types.
spectrum_92 8y ago
Berlin is less representative of Germany than San Francisco is of the US
London-Bananas 8y ago
Berlin isn't Germany, ask any German. It's full of artsy hipster types with no career or future, which is why Germans have such mixed feelings about it.
Zekohl 8y ago
Hell, I am from Berlin (born and raised) and even I hate it.
Work_McGurk 8y ago
I've never witnessed so many hipsters in one place than when I went to Berlin a few years ago
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Copenhagen23 8y ago
Berlin is reverting back to how it was pre Hitler. The debauchery capital of Europe. You'll notice the same happening in nearly all western nations. This is by design. I will just leave it at that.
2comment 8y ago
To get what Copenhagen23 is saying, watch the movie Cabaret from 1972 with Liza Minnelli. Extremely good atmosphere film and set in Berlin early 30s, before the Nazis achieved power.
BhiQ 8y ago
I should move to Berlin but they hate my kind there :( (Schwabe)
Der_Baba 8y ago
Was willschn da kerle? Hier isches schee :D
BhiQ 8y ago
Des mog scho sei ober dia depperte Dorfweiber langweilat mi schregglich. Koi Luschd am Sonndich in'd Kirch zom ganga. Ond in Schtuargart send se mir alle a bissle zu ernschd.
Deresetese 8y ago
Berlin is not germany, Berlin is international.
Any nationalism, which is not all that present in germany anyway, is non existant there.
Basically Berlin is the epitome of every problem that germany faces.
No nationalism, high cost of living, multi culturalism, degrees that become increasingly worthless and thus people who either don't aim for any education or simply can't capitalise on it.
Berlin is full of people who have no future, they're either immigrants that don't speak german or germans wihout sufficient education.
This and other reasons lead to berlin being drastically different from every other part of germany.
Gackt 8y ago
Funny, because I think this shit is caused by overpopulation but you guys are thinking the decreasing population is a problem (I agree though that being replaced by nonnative population is a big problem, but the dwindling of population itself isn't, I just wish muslims and whatnot stopped fucking and spreading around europe)
Deresetese 8y ago
I don't believe that a decreasing population is a problem, neither is replacing them with a nonnative population.
Decreasing population in itself is not a problem, the demographic change is.
And all that a mass of immigrants do is destroy national identification.
That's not a problem, just a circumstance to consider and to adjust to.
Personally, I would prefer to keep a national identity, but that is highly unrealistic in the modern era.
The problem here lies within the complete inability of the government and the people to adjust to new circumstances.
Gackt 8y ago
Yeah that's what I said, sorry english isn't my first language.
letter_of_reprimand 8y ago
Why is this? I live in Germany and I've heard before that engineering is Germany's most respected profession but nobody I ask seems to really know why this is.
London-Bananas 8y ago
Germany simply has a rock solid boner for engineering, especially mechanical engineering. It's a world leading country not only in cars but also firearms and large arms.
exit_sandman 8y ago
This. If you are in engineering in my area (SW Germany), you're settled for life. They're practically always hiring.
popthatpill 8y ago
Drive a German car and compare it to any other country's cars, that's probably why people like German engineering.
letter_of_reprimand 8y ago
First car I owned was a TDI diesel. Wish I still had it, even at 100hp it was such a fun car.
2comment 8y ago
That was a real thing up to the 80s I'd say. Japanese cars were these tiny ugly POS and American cars were just fucking bad in the 70s/80s. There was a real gray market (cars brought overseas to here) for Mercedes in that time.
But my experience with German cars after the mid-80s models is that mechanically they're usually very solid -- a big thing decades back was the doors closed every so pleasingly, something I think the others mastered in the meantime --- but also often way overcomplicated and overpriced to fix and the electrical engineering is shit.
IDK about the other brands, but from what I seen of the GPS/radio/etc in Mercedes, they're usually garbage too in interface and at least 5 years ago, were still stuck in the 90s mentality compared to what you can get in a GM.
Now don't me wrong, I went over 250km/h on the autobahn (when farther away from cities and empty enough, getting more and more rare) and the average middle-of-the-road Audi/Mercedes/BMW/Porsche will beat any other country's average car for feel and handling at those speeds for realistic highway driving. Shit like a Ford Escort feels like metal coffin on wheels when its wheezing at 180kph.
But other than that consideration, which just doesn't apply to most of the world, I prefer one of the Japanese big 3 for total ownership for small/medium cars. And something American if I had hauling to do.
[deleted] 8y ago
Love my Nazi mobile, but maybe y'all should up your electrical engineering game. Js.
TheJessee 8y ago
Future electrical engineer represent
fodtp 8y ago
Japanese cars are more reliable than German cars.
letter_of_reprimand 8y ago
With the advent of the "global platform" I think they are pretty much a moot point.
I drive an American car, assembled in America, with an American built engine, with Bosch components, a transmission from Austria, a windshield washer pump from Czech Republic, and the whole thing was mostly designed in Korea with help from some guys in Australia.
roteroktober 8y ago
yeah which is why they have to call back millions of cars because of errors they made.
EvrythingISayIsRight 8y ago
Says who? Some guy who once got XXX miles in his <insert cheap ass car here>? You'll hear those stories about every car manufacturer, so anecdotes don't really mean anything.
German cars (Porsche, Mercedes, BWM, Audi, shit even VW) consistantly win best in class for luxury and performance. The only Japanese luxury car manufacturers you would see even make the list are Lexus and Inifinity, and they are almost always outclassed by other german cars. Go ahead and do a google search for "top 10 luxury cars" or "best luxury cars in class" and count the Japanese & German cars you see.
letter_of_reprimand 8y ago
This. Where I live in Germany the most popular cars in order:
I never really appreciated BMW engineering until I got here, mostly because of the stigma of BMW drivers.
curiousthis 8y ago
Luxury and performance. Not reliability.
EvrythingISayIsRight 8y ago
They're reliable too. I don't know why you would think the best in class cars wouldn't be reliable.
curiousthis 8y ago
Because they consistently show up on consumer reports list of used cars to avoid. The 2014 report is behind a paywall, but here's an article on it.
letter_of_reprimand 8y ago
My theory is that a lot of this has to do with the cost of parts. Because most of these brands aim for luxury and build their parts in Germany there is a premium owning them in the states.
torodinson 8y ago
https://youtu.be/FzpbHvShkQI?t=22s
letter_of_reprimand 8y ago
Haha, I love the GTI. Fun car.
NidStyles 8y ago
They essentially invented engineering, that's why.
Stories_of_Red 8y ago
Some might look at those pyramids in Egypt and Roman-era ruins ponder if, maybe, just maybe there were a few non-German engineers back when the Germans were still not heard from yet.
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BhiQ 8y ago
Germanic tribes at that time had serious trouble building bridges which is why the Romans managed to hold Germany until the Rhine froze.
garlicextract 8y ago
as an engineer this is the dumbest shit I've read all day
NidStyles 8y ago
Modern Engineering came out of Germany prior to WW1 when Berlin was the richest city in the world. Some of don't know your history.
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exit_sandman 8y ago
The concept of hyperbole is familiar to you?
garlicextract 8y ago
Yeah. It doesn't apply here at all.
This is like saying Americans invented slavery, or the British invented tea. It's fucking asinine is what it is.
CyberFi 8y ago
As a curious engineering aficionado, where would you say the birth of true engineering came to life? My mind drifts back to the renaissance, in particular DaVinci and his various contraptions. Unless you're referring to simple mechanisms like the pulley or the lever..
garlicextract 8y ago
As others have said, it occurred in ancient times most definitely.
You also have to specify the type of engineering when you ask that.
It began with mechanical and civil engineering. Who knows who were the founding fathers of these essentially ancient disciplines.
Chemical engineering began in the 1800s with the Industrial Revolution.
Modern Electrical Engineering as we know it today probably started in the early-mid 1900s, with the invention of the transistor.
Computer engineering/science began with either Alan Turing in a similar time, or one could argue with Babbage and Ada Lovelace in the late 1800s.
thebadmanpuntdbaxter 8y ago
Engineering, as in applying science to meet the needs and wants of humans?
When a fucking caveman took the scientific knowledge that sharp edges could hurt living things and made a spear to stab the jackass sleeping with his caveskank.
Call yourself an "engineering afficionado" to really give them a good laugh
CyberFi 8y ago
Good point. I should probably familiarize myself with the definition of a subject before considering myself an enthusiast.
Now I see why the user above me found the comment about Germany ridiculous.
FaustoRMD 8y ago
This is what the elite wanted. Countries without identity and without family, individuals without power, depending of the government.
l0ng_time_lurker 8y ago
Yes, it´s all about replacing statehood with corporations - a healthy family of 4+ is the smallest element of a state - Marxists / Anarchists have been fighting the family-ideal for decades - the founders of the swedish model of state-run-day care for toddlers - which was hailed as a womens´lib achievement to enable them to keep working while being a mother - has , IMHO, only one agenda: weaken the familiy and personal influence on instilling your own values into your child. The end-game is a fragmented society or not even one but several sub-socities that can be more easily governed.
[deleted] 8y ago
Is this what our grandfathers died for? A German future devoid of Germans and devoid of virtue?
810809 8y ago
Nice little switch there. No they died for a German empire that sought to exist at the expense of everyone else that had the misfortune of being near them. It's downright ridiculous how you try and redefine it as something noble and outright virtuous.
halfbluehalfyellow 8y ago
White people are being displaced in their own nations, the former carriers of civilization.
Don't mention that though, that's mean.
By 2100 everywhere will look like Brazil, Mexico or
RhodesiaZimbabwe.aakksshhaayy 8y ago
That's great and all but Japan is one of the sexist countries in the world... the feminist movement is much smaller and very different there than the modern feminism of western countries. So how can you explain their low birth rates due to feminism?
FortunateBum 8y ago
I suspect these trends far surpass ideology.
The carrying capacity of the planet has been passed. Thankfully, instead of warfare, people are just having fewer kids. Probably because birth control is pretty easy in the modern world.
If you look at how adulterated processed food is, I think that's a clear indicator of civilization being at the end of stretching resources.
As we are learning, the baby boom way overproduced. The green revolution was a catastrophe.
Not everything bad in the world is because of feminism.
I'm guessing the world will, in a few generations, come to a more comfortable level of population.
[deleted] 8y ago
I have a feeling you won't be getting any proper replies, it's an echo chamber in here.
ChairBorneMGTOW 8y ago
Face it - making the world "fair" and "secure" and "comfortable" and "affluent" eventually destroys our will to live. For 20,000 years we sustained ourselves through our drive to overcome adversity. Remove adversity and we lose our drive.
That's why socialism always fails.
(Posted this as a response but I think it's more pertinent than a simple reply to a single point:)
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raceAround126 8y ago
Given the professional working world is geared up to prioritize women, isn't it obvious that middle class women are preferring those routes?
Of all the girls I've known over the past year or so, I could only count a handful of them with any decent standard of education. And most of those wouldn't even consider a long term relationship despite barrelling towards being 30.
However, a lot of the lower-class or working-class (however you want to put it) women are definitely maintaining that strategy of beta bucks.
Given the quality of women that men have available to them, the choice of poor slut who wants a free ride or bust leads to things like MGTOW.
Personally if I was in the market for an LTR, a girl who has never had a job and been looked after by Big Brother State wouldn't even be on the list.
monzzter221 8y ago
The reason this is happening in a country like Germany, where the work hours are lower, the pay is higher, and the healthcare is good, is not economic.
It is 100% social. Men want children. We do. We want families.
But there's no incentive. When you put your life into your family, and there's no security there, no socially pressured reciprocation, the result is what many of us here have come to realize. We can never have the family life we want. We can't have the kids that we teach how to be people, because the school will teach them otherwise. We can't have the wives that take care of them, that have that glow they get when they are happy taking care of a house and kids all day, because they are taught that it is dehumanizing and shameful to be that woman.
We opt out. And western countries are starting to feel the effects of it. They are starting to see just how important a mans incentive to start a family is.
donit 8y ago
Yeah, we need to find another way in order to survive. Start a new country?
iliketurdles123 8y ago
The main problem on the economic side is, that women as of yet do not work as many hours as men, even when controlling for newborn-to-baby care. They live on average 4 years longer as well, costing the state money through health and pension expenses. If women actually applied the education they got, in many cases paid by the state, in the sectors that fitted, with the same hours as men, Europe would be a GDP-growth powerhouse. But they don't. This is highly problematic, as the legal and redistributive benefit privileges thay they got before the emancipation of women STILL exist, they've been carried over without much moderation. In Germany specifically, if you are an unwilling or unmarried father, you STILL have to pay 800 euro for 4 years to the mother, since she has been taken out of the labour market because of the child. The logic is originally Christian and highly patriarchical, but hasn't been changed along with right to vote or, say, army pension for men by feminists, because it privileges women. This has to be stopped, or there is no incentive for women to neither work as much as men nor be in the financially co-dependent legal partnership that marriage historically has been. ESPECIALLY given the discourse today, many women (and men) think they deserve it, simply for being women. The legal and redistributive situation regarding gender is pure state-managed privilege on par with, say, Roman nobility.
cock_pussy_up 8y ago
I think the way to solve the low birth rate problem is to remove women from schools and the workforce and give men priority in education and employment. That would provide a larger pool of "marriageable" men, make women less picky (hypergamy), more dependent on men, and give them more time for breeding without competition from education and employment demands.
Of course that solution is totally unacceptable to the ideology of the West. So, instead, they'll just keep on importing foreign immigrants until their nation is largely made up of people of foreign descent.
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ejpusa 8y ago
Women are much better project managers then men. (IMHO). Seems would be bad business decision if you ask me.
Source: Capitalist :-)
donit 8y ago
Just because you're skilled with a shovel, doesn't mean you should pick one up.
C0UNTdrama 8y ago
You just crashed to economy, congrats. Now the whole country looks like an even shittier version of Detroit.
squirtmasterd 8y ago
Anyone who values freedom and liberty would be appalled by this notion.
Subtletorious 8y ago
Nope. You will just have a pool of bored housewives. People aren't having children because they don't need to.
Hoodwink 8y ago
Bored housewives always have kids. Kids in school.
The concept of a bored housewife came into being after public schooling and washing machines. Both effectively replaced the 'hard work' in the household. You'll find most reasonable housewives actually get part-time jobs or have gone into teaching.
Men don't just 'housewife' a woman and keep them in their home. There's not enough rich men for that to become a cultural reality.
curiousthis 8y ago
Exactly. Children were not considered the apple of your eye and coddled the way they are now. Prior to us becoming a rich country, children were essentially free labor (when on a farm or business). And having children made the difference between being able to grow enough to keep increasing your standard of living, or not.
I still remember my grandmother talking to distant cousins who were having trouble conceiving and had essentially decided to remain childless. And the only question she kept asking was "but who will help you with the farm?".
Needless to say, the farm is no more.
fourbet 8y ago
I believe it's actually a combination of a couple factors
Career oriented women are generally at university or climbing the career ladder in their reproductive prime years
The increased availability of low cost birth control
Even for monogamous long term couples, when both partners have full time careers they will often just opt out of having children due to already low amounts of free time.
There are some really smart people out there who actually are concerned that humans may some day go extinct due to lack of procreation as technology continues to improve.
Many futurists have expressed some concern as to what would happen if "virtual reality" on demand sex became widely available. If it literally felt 100% like the real thing, and you could customize it to your tastes, it's safe to assume many (more) people would drop out of the sexual marketplace altogether.
Allemania 8y ago
Remove the rent. Watch families pop 4 or 5 children out to secure their grandpa/ma life.
the_code_always_wins 8y ago
People haven't needed children for at least a hundred years.
The main issue right now is women are pushed to delay childbearing in their most fertile years and spend absurd amounts of money on kids.
cock_pussy_up 8y ago
Part of the reason why women delay having children in their prime fertility years is because of school and career priorities. I'm not saying all of them would have children if they weren't in school or working, but I think more of them would.
StManTiS 8y ago
Exactly, a college degree basically halves a woman's fertility and pushes the birth age up which risks more birth defects.
[deleted] 8y ago
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donit 8y ago
I think women are taught to feel bad about depending on a man because they're raised with men as unisex "persons", rather than being raised as women.
And we can't really criticize them for not being submissive if they've never experienced it in their life or culture.
So, the first issue is they've never been given a role, other than (person equal to a man). Well, if it's a gender role intended to compliment the man's role, it can't be equal to a man, because that would be competitive rather than complimentary. The man's role is already taken by the man, so if her role was equal then it wouldn't be specialized.
So, the first thing we need to do is toss out the idea of equality because neither sex should try to be equal to the other. Can you imagine bringing equality to a baseball game? Everybody gets to pitch. How about football? Everyone is a quarterback. Everyone takes turns calling the plays and everyone gets a turn at each position. Any sports team that tried to do that would lose every game because there would be no specialization.
Well, if you consider a family a sports team, it's the same thing. A family of two "persons" is just not going to be able to compete in life. The birth rates and divorce rates illustrate that. Just like in the example, the teams all start to lose. It doesn't work.
So, we need to respect the female role (women) again. Somehow we forgot they were important, and wrote them off as a personal "cultural" option as if being a woman was just something little girls could opt into if they felt an emotional connection to the culture of it. Women are not a culture, they're the only way we can survive.
But you did bring up an interesting dilemma: what should the support structure be for women? The answer is whatever would guide them into their role, because our survival depends on them being there.
If they earn all their own money, then it's going to be hard for them to feel dependent on a man or be able to get into a submissive frame of mind. But to change that, we have to stop raising girls as independent professionals, and get them more aligned toward becoming wives and mothers. Instead of studying for a career, they should be educated in supportive roles like accounting, organizational management, people management, and scheduling.
It's not because women can't be men. They can. But we needed their gender in the first place. That's why they're here. That's why they're like that.
HAMMURABl 8y ago
correct.
here is where you mix things up. its not wrong that women are hypergamous - its just an obversation, like lions killing other animals.
"users" is very ambigous - women are consumers and manipulate men to produce for them, through a variety of schemes.
the manipulation part is what upsets many people here, but it's not connected to women being hypergamous. so its not "wrong" that women are hypergamous.
curiousthis 8y ago
It's not a philosophy - it's an observation (cemented by experience). We're the red pill - we tell it like it is. That said, the first part is correct - women seek out men who are rich, successful and will look after them. It's in the second part that you're leaping to a conclusion.
TRP says that there's nothing bad or wrong about it - it just is and it's better for men to understand that.
So what do we want from women?
If I may use your list:
The TRP expectation is that women would be the first mate to the captain. Submission has nothing to do with this.
Women must provide men with 'woman sphere services': food, comfort, sex and loyalty - because she has either made a vow to that effect or because she realizes that it's the best way to support her captain.
In return, the man does have an obligation to provide, protect, and nurture the woman.
Hope this helps.
aakksshhaayy 8y ago
this guy is just an idiot, he doesn't realize he's basically describing sharia law (limit women from education and work and ultimately basic privileges such as driving, being outside alone, etc.). Man if people in trp upvote this crap then this subreddit is going to shit
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mkopec 8y ago
Not to cheat on me, then proceed to take 3/4 my shit, my kids, 1/2 my salary, while shes living with Chad T in my house? To be an indentured servant for her for the rest of my life? And when I dont pay I go to jail? Thats what I want. I dont care if she has a career, degrees, all the freedom she wants.Thats fine. But at the core the system is skewed to fuck the man. And I dont care if youre TRP or not, you should be smart enough to realize this, because it might happen to you my friend. This is why people in western societies are not getting married and not having kids.
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donit 8y ago
Islam got big because it works so well, it overpopulates every country it invades. It's the ultimate people-making machine.
[deleted] 8y ago
How the fuck are low birth rates a problem at all
cock_pussy_up 8y ago
Because when people get old they drain resources from the government, and they need younger people to take care of them. If birth rates are too low, there aren't enough young people paying taxes to support the old people's pensions and healthcare.
They don't even have to completely ban women from public life. If there was a bit less "gender equality", like there was in the 1950s, then birth rates would probably be higher. For example, they could still hire women and let them go have post-secondary educations, but give priority to male job applicants and male students.
[deleted] 8y ago
So they "drain resources from the government" and yet we need young people to help them drain more for longer?
This is also a great way to exacerbate the problem. "Too many old people, not enough young. Let's make more young so that in 50 years the young are the old and need even more young to support them, etc."
But let's throw the book at women and go back to the 50s. We need a second round of baby boomers right? Cuz that all has been going so well?
I'm amazed that every single point and example you use is absolutely illogical.
cock_pussy_up 8y ago
Do you have a better solution? Should all old people just kill themselves when they can't work anymore? Or should they just be allowed to die? So far the solution for low birth rates in Europe has just been to import foreign immigrants, which has caused social problems.
[deleted] 8y ago
I place sustainability and a healthy environment above any sort of arbitrarily contrived economic issue that comes with it. I can't sit here and defend a system that relies on an ever-increasing population to keep itself going. Do I want to overpopulate the planet or do I want an economic and social collapse? Neither. I think this tends to be the problem today. We don't think of an alternative, we think within the system and don't deny it's practicality.
If you believe the old have a right to resources and help, you can't then complain about them "sucking up government resources and taxes". Do not accuse me of saying the old should just die off/kill themselves, when it is your system you defend so heavily that is the root. You want to recreate the baby boomer generation so in 50 years the problem is twice as (if not more) worse, and so on.
But don't let the immigrants have our work! That's what is destroying the earth and killing the old. /s
Edit: I also think you should be the one giving a solution that hasn't been systemically proven to not work, otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation because it would be a non-issue.
aakksshhaayy 8y ago
what the fuck, this is basically the thought process of sharia law (which is a really shit system)
cock_pussy_up 8y ago
Sharia law may be a "shit system", but it does produce much higher birth rates than the western system. Also, if western birth rates are too low, they're going to end up with growing Muslim populations taking over and imposing Sharia law anyway.
Work_McGurk 8y ago
for the sake of argument, what would actually be the problem with this system for society on the whole?
aakksshhaayy 8y ago
It depends on the economic system, a capitalist system inherently creates inequality between socioeconomic classes. This will lead to a large division between the rich and the poor. Since women have no inherent resources because they no longer have education or income, they will flock to the rich men exclusively (especially the desirable women). It's only a matter of time before laws like polygamy are in place. Basically you get a very similar system to that in place currently in Afganistan, Iraq. And they aren't doing too well. This is just one of many problems.
cock_pussy_up 8y ago
Women all flock to the same men right now. When women have their own money they may be worse, because they need expect even more money than they do when they're broke. Women with no money are happy for a relatively poor man who is a little richer than them. Women who have money of their own in the west only want a small number of men who are richer than them, like doctors, executives, or attorneys because hypergamy.
Work_McGurk 8y ago
but it sounds pretty much like western civilisation until the 60s/ 70s, and we never had polygamy
aakksshhaayy 8y ago
Yes but women were also restricted in what they could do sexually due to societal pressure. There is no longer such a pressure and women would rather be with an alpha/rich guy even if he is seeing other women than be alone with a beta.
kosmos95 8y ago
Why is there so much hate going towards the immigrants in these comments. They see an opportunity for more comfort along with minimal risk and take it. Is that not human nature? And would you not do the same if put in their position? Sure they refuse to integrate with local values and bring with them a culture of oppression, but I thought that we were already living in a culture of feminist oppression. I also thought that part of being red pill is to be successful and to exert your own will on your environment despite the difficulties, hardships, and oppression your environment will inevitably exert on you. Maybe I'm ignorant or inferring too much from some comments but I get the feeling that there are some people here who are playing the victim card when it comes to blaming those dumb unskilled immigrants. Why do they matter to you? If you can't work on yourself like you should and aren't able to add value to your environment, are the uneducated immigrants to blame?
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TamingDebt 8y ago
I believe that most people of any race have a natural aversion to their people ("tribe") being totally extinguished. I believe this is natural. If every white person in the world moved to Nigeria tomorrow and significantly changed the demographics there, I would suspect the native Africans would be upset and they would be justified.
It doesn't necessarily have to do with any hatred on an individual level. I understand the motivation for immigrants from third-world countries coming to the West, I just personally find it unfortunate that my race of people is being extinguished, and that most people are too afraid to voice their opinions about immigration policy.
kosmos95 8y ago
I guess I didn't think of it from that perspective, that's a good point. There certainly is a natural instinct to see your own tribe prosper rather than decline. However I don't think the white race is being extinguished. Sure they are not repopulating to a great extent but there are so many opportunities to prosper simply through hard work and discipline. Perhaps I value the quality of a certain tribe's life more than the quantity of people in that tribe, but I don't think the white race is going anywhere anytime soon (in terms of holding power at least).
netgrey 8y ago
Will it be Germany when there are no Germans, but only Muslim Turks who might speak some German?
I don't get how importing immigrants from failed countries en masse helps.
razor5151 8y ago
this is what I don't understand. I see people talking about how countries are importing tons of immigrants, but my experience tells me otherwise.
I'm from India. My brother, who is a software engineer, has been trying to get a H1B visa for a while because he thinks he can do better than his current employer. He has been trying, for the past 3 years, and yet his visa keeps getting rejected by immigration department.
Indians who pay taxes, work honest jobs, keep their heads down, and become contributing members of the society they immigrate to are denied visas.
On the other hand, degenerate Mudslimes are imported by the dozens?
oldredder 8y ago
slavery requires a high population, always expanding.
It helps slavery, same as raising the birth rate.
This is the master plan of all countries with a central bank. The core of the red pill is always economics. It rules all and is acting via deliberate layered strategies, not accidents, upon marriage, sexual relationships and laws governing what is assault, rape, consent, powers of police to search, rights of accused & accuser in courts - everything.
exit_sandman 8y ago
For some weird-ass reason, apart from the conservatives (well, and the common folk) the idea to compensate for the loss of manpower by allowing more migration is pretty popular.
The fact that people rather go to the US if they want to make it big with their knowledge and skills is usually ignored.
Deresetese 8y ago
The ideal is that skilled immigrants come here to work (for lower salaries than germans would).
spoiler: it doesn't work that way.
BhiQ 8y ago
German bureaucracy is superb. In the end it'll be a few hundred thousand Germans in key positions directing the workforce of millions of immigrants.
netgrey 8y ago
Are you being sarcastic? When Germany is majority Turkish, the German Turks will run the country. Why wouldn't they?
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weirdnamedindian 8y ago
Hey, Turkey itself only became Turk from around the 14th century when a bunch of eastern steppe Turkic tribes invaded the place and pushed out the mostly Greek speaking populace or inter-mingled with them. Expect the same to happen to Germany - and no, it will no longer be Germany. No one looks to Turkey and thinks of Hellenic culture, Byzantium and Asia Minor unless one is a historian.
CharlieIndiaShitlord 8y ago
Oh Constantinople, how we miss you so.
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QQ_L2P 8y ago
It doesn't, it's fucking stupid. At best it's a misconception that the immigrants who arrived in the 70's, the intelligent and the skilled who migrated at the first opportunity for a better life, will be the kind that come with this push.
But it won't be. I'll tell you now it's the mouthbreathers and the bottom dregs of society who come over, do fuck all and claim benefits all day while letting their kids run in idiotic gangs who have and will continue to come over.
Europe has no spine, it just doesn't know how to say no at this point, and it's a fucking shame.
[deleted] 8y ago
If you're a young European person: Learn an Asian language (Korean, Taiwanese, Japanese, Chinese, ...) and prepare to move to that country after you've acquired a few years of work experience.
Your education will be in high demand in those countries, and they are the rising nations of the 21st century.
London-Bananas 8y ago
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money"
oldredder 8y ago
money is merely a proxy for value, and value is intrinsic in materials and in labour, especially skilled labour. The problem with EVERY economic system is someone doesn't want to be induced by force to work or to lose material owned value.
Socialism is not the worst among them. Monarchy, monopoly, oligarchy and Fascism are each far worse.
Goomich 8y ago
What we've learned in 2008, is that you can run out of banks' money too.
koxar 8y ago
How will it say no, it's either get immigrants or have the entire tech sector go down? What do you suggest they do? Plus I disagree that muslims create sharia gangs in germany.
Deresetese 8y ago
Despite that, the EU is falling apart slowly but surely.
With the integration of failing countries and the failing of countries like greece, the EU has to make drastic decisions (e.g. kicking them out, which could never happen because nobody would get a majority for that).
Having the same currency for those states that are economically strong and those that basically have no economic value can not work in the long run.
The directions of the EU to accept immigrants from other EU countries and refugees from outside the EU only enhance this effect.
Furthermore, the stronger states have to help the failing ones in order to prevent their own economy from crashing.
All of this is weakening the economy to a point where it will collapse eventually.
NidStyles 8y ago
It doesn't take a genius to figure what is going on. Just examine the cultural group promoting these immigration policies. In every nation they exist, they have the same thing in common.
Dornerthecoroner 8y ago
Germany has a history of waking up to that parasite
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Fingersofsalad 8y ago
The goyim know! Shut it down! #muhshekels
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Squeezymypenisy 8y ago
Europe hasn't had a spine since world war 1.
netgrey 8y ago
All the brave men from Europe died in world war 1.
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makethemsayayy 8y ago
That's true the appeasement of Hitler was fucking pathetic. He annexes two countries but you sit and hope he won't keep going? are you fucking serious this nigga is just declaring countries his, but just stay quiet? lol you're right man
CptDefB 8y ago
Russia is doing this today, no?
The landscape has shifted, everything is war by proxy now. There is no Treaty of Versaille to hamstring and handcuff Russia the same way Germany was. Perhaps if the powers that be, laced Russian propaganda with racial tensions, people might have the same unchecked gut reaction.
The same way they do if you talk to them about Germany and WWII today, by presenting a narrative they haven't heard ever because "all the historians have looked into it already"... (where's the test samples from each camp? jury is still out, yet we believe wholeheartedly that millions died in gas chambers... 6 million jews also died in WWI (New York Times printed it), but no one seems to care? hmm...)
makethemsayayy 8y ago
Millions did die in gas chambers, my great uncle personally lost 22 brothers and sisters as well as his parents.
UzairDjillaliYahud 8y ago
That's not how it went down. Hitler had to protect German minorities in former German cities. After WW1 germany was ripped apart and at some point the germans who then lived in a new country became victims of assaults. Especially along the French and Czechia borders. There is a documentary called "the greatest story never told" which is about 6 hours. I've never really watched it completely only nearly 2 hours but it gives you more insight as to what happend in the time before WW2.
makethemsayayy 8y ago
He couldn't just demand those people come back, he couldn't have only taken SOME of sudentland and austria?
CptDefB 8y ago
You should watch the documentary UzairDjillaliYahud mentioned. Seriously. Then, like any critical thinker, go look up some of the sources. See that things like the Katyn Massacre which are on record, but never added to the WWII narrative "Germany is bad. Hitler is bad. National Socialism is bad."
Compare that to the fact that Nationalism has all but disappared (the West especially, Eurozone to follow), making it super easy for corporations to take over nations and further enslaving people via debt, aka, indentured servitude. Nationalism is foreign to people. The idea that their country should print their own money (funny, I'm in Canada, our money is printed by Germans) isn't even something that crosses their minds enough to reach critical mass, despite it working for Hitler (between WWI and II), and to a lesser extent (no central bank that I'm aware of) Enver Hoxha in Albania (yes, he ran it a lot like the Soviets (internment camps and such) but the national progress under his nation oriented rule cannot be denied).
UzairDjillaliYahud 8y ago
Some of them got put into camps. Some of them got shot while fleeing. Austria wanted to become part of the german reich. When germany "invaded" they were welcomed with flowers and a parade. And austrian troops "invaded" Berlin and other larger german cities.
Just found this about Czechia on youtube The german people simply wanted to be reunited, like when the wall in Berlin felt.
IlliterateIllyrian 8y ago
Sorta like Ukraine. If Russia is involved, that is. If.
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Disaster532385 8y ago
With a megalomaniac dicator that wants to turn Turkey back into a conservative religious shithole.
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RS73 8y ago
You're getting downvoted but you're not wrong. Look at a gutless turd like David Cameron who cares far, far more for immigrants and invading aliens than he does the native British people and culture.
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IlliterateIllyrian 8y ago
Name one thing Turkey contributed to the world other than food and genocides.
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IlliterateIllyrian 8y ago
A musical instrument that is strictly for your culture. Hardly a contribution to the world.
Because the Turks invented hygiene (lol). A Turkish bath is just a Roman variant, anyway.
Ankaferd is only used in Turkey, and it isn't the only anti-hemorrhagic in the world.
Turkey did not invent Micro neurosurgery. A Turkish guy was involved, but he was a trainee of Raymond M. P. Donaghy, who is the pioneer.
Pardus was intended for Turkish agencies. Not a contribution to the world.
All the rest are just weapons used by your country to take over land that you had no business being in. Also, I said no food. Yes, that includes drinks.
aa223 8y ago
Wow and I thought the holocaust was bad. But Sweden is projected to be a third world country in a few decades. This is what feminism and throwing away the best just to fulfill quotas does to countries. This whole thing is a child's problem just magnified by a fuckton.
red445 8y ago
I would not blame feminism on this. Germany is not that bad regarding divorce. For example sex withdrawal is valid reason (for men) to divorce. And it is not uncommon for men to get full custody.
Problem is with status, jobs (overqualified mentality) and general sentiment in society.
cagethepepper 8y ago
Germany hates kids. Simple as that.
UzairDjillaliYahud 8y ago
i don't think they really hate them. There are playgrounds everywhere, the idea of a kindergarten was german and a lot of money is invested in children. It's just to dense in the cities, you don't want to have children if you live in a 3 room flat with your girlfriend, too crowded when you go shopping in the mall and when your kid reaches school ages, chances are it will be bullied by a gang of immigrant kids. This is simply an enviroment you hardly want to bring up kids. My grandfather's father owned a big house and had a ton of kids, if they were too noisy he simply told them to get outside. Back than kids had a forest to discover and to build treehouses, they could swimming in the sea or the river, they could ride their bikes and build parcours or simply walk through the village and visit their friends.
Now when i look out the window and see the neighbour's kids I don't see them playing anymore, they are 5-12yr old and they all stare on their Iphones, try to impress each other with the newest hit from Rihanna, that all of them got on their iPhones as their taste is absolutely identical. There is no forest to play, there are just blocks of flats. They can't play hockey on the side street because even there every minute a car passes by. And if they attempt to play something together they will start fighting and screaming within 5mins because they can't communicate properly, 2 speak arabic, 1 speaks german, 2 swiss german, 1 turkish, 1 russian, 1 french, 1 italian, and another 1 speaks a different dialect of arabic and that's also why their parents hate each other.
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Longstreet101 8y ago
This whole country, its cultural, socially and political fucked up in so many ways... Most people don't want to see everything is in decline, still thinking everything is going to be alright.
[deleted] 8y ago
We have enough, the economy is growing, we can take it. Bla bla same bla bla from all politicians. Their plan to stop the growing national debt is laughable to say the least.
Longstreet101 8y ago
They know how to keep the people satisfied. As long as the majority can afford to concentrate on toys and entertainment everything is fine. But there has to be more. Where is this country going?
olican101 8y ago
So, what? you want to force people to have children? As a homosexual male, i object pretty heavily to this.
drallcom3 8y ago
German here. The lower class has many children, since the state benefits are quite good, but the middle class or above start very late or never at all.
There's no reason for any woman to not have children. Great universal healthcare, guaranteed time off (up to 3 years), you may pick up your old job, low costs (if you're good with money), no college fund needed. Economic reasons my ass. It's probably one of the best countries to have children in.
mpnsk 8y ago
Unfortunately it seems for educated middleaged women it is a even better country to work in. :D I guess Switzerland would be even better.
Traz_Onmale 8y ago
What use is money if you don't have the time to spend it?
erplaint 8y ago
I have never understood this whole "economic reasons" line of thought. It is a given that it is actually the poor who have the most children! Basically, women higher up in society become, what were they called... "too posh to push"? As in their own person is way too precious for them to carry around a baby and then give birth to it because "it's uncomfortable". It is really a cultural problem, not an economic one, but no one wants to address the elephant in the room because it might hurt some feefees.
Traz_Onmale 8y ago
The elephant in the room is that having and raising children sucks according to many. As soon as birth control is available, smart people opt out.
great_artists_steal 8y ago
So why do you think it's happening? I'm curious, because my first clue would be economic reasons. That's certainly the main reason I see in my peers (with no/unstable jobs, and no prospect of ever owning an apartment) from other, not so wealthy/industrialized European countries.
Traz_Onmale 8y ago
Because people don't want to have and raise kids. As soon as safe birth control is introduced, birth rates decrease.
drallcom3 8y ago
I don't know. Most of my male friends are very well off and in their early 30s, yet only one of them has a child. It's not like they're together with carrer women and such. Quite the opposite. Sidenote: Only one of them is married and it's not the one with a child.
[deleted] 8y ago
Same for me & my ~10 closer friends. Middle class (doctors, architects, ..). The girlfriends usually do have a Job, but it's not great in most cases. Early 30s, 0 marriages, 1 child.
Why? No idea. It might be local, but it feels like a "everything sucks anyways, so why bother?" attitude.
HonestContrarian 8y ago
Ah. That explains the exploding German population!
Wait a minute...
Zachar1a 8y ago
Yes, that doesn't quite add up, does it?
frozen_strawberry 8y ago
it's a social stigma. you need to put your career first. only stupid women have kids young. you will divorce and live on welfare. more than two kids? are you crazy? and so on and so forth. germany is not a kid friendly place.
myynshine 8y ago
/u/drallcom3's point supports the argument of the post that the reasons behind declining birth rates may not be economic at all.
drallcom3 8y ago
The state pays for all your children's need until it's 26 or something like that (even free healthcare all the way). Then you can kick it out and the state will be paying for it's needs.
raven2000 8y ago
Yes, but culturally Germany is NOT a child-friendly place. They do not worship children like we do in the States. Children are annoying bores to much of the educated elite in Germany.
PedroIsWatching 8y ago
Sounds great, a country made for adults. I can't stand how everything is sanitized here for "the children".
exit_sandman 8y ago
This.
We have had the replacement rate gap for years, and there have been loads of articles on the subject. One I read compared the situation to the US and it was pointed out that when families have more children than they can afford with their current living standards, they simply... accept a drop in their living standard. Gee, what a novel idea, accepting that you have to make sacrifices for children! But tell that to our middle class families.
It's funny, because leftists usually point out that it's so much easier to reconcile having a job and a family in Scandinavia or in France (ignoring the fact that France only has its replacement rates because African immigrants compensate for the shortcomings from native French people); when the actual problem is (a) that being childless is entirely acceptable and even quite normal and (b) even couples who actually want children are entirely happy with 1, 2 tops. And since more kids usually means a hit to your living standard...
I can look around and it certainly doesn't get better. My 4 grandparents had 8 children combined, and this postwar generation was pretty much the last one that was above the minimal replacement rate. The postwar babyboomers who became parents in the 80s and 90s already were below replacement IIRC - at least when looking around me it looks like that (most couples only had 2 children, and some - like my uncle, an aunt, or friends of my parents only 1 or even none at all); and it only got worse - my long-term friends and I are in our 30s by now, and I can count the number of children we collectively have on the fingers of one hand. Some don't want children, some are latebloomers (read: have been notorious incels for most of their lives) and just got into their first relationships by now, some didn't find the right partner so far. It's definitely fucked up (and the progressive post 68-ideology that has permeated the mainstream didn't really help either).
HAMMURABl 8y ago
http://populationpyramid.net/germany/
just take a look at the situation in 2030. a huge, HUGE, wave of people suddenly about to going into pension. and these people are currently working and contributing, yet the welfare in germany is running on very thin ice.
in 2030, germany will have much less money will be available (no more babyboomers paying taxes) and much more money needed (thanks to the umlagefinanzierte pension system). its gonna be an economic disaster, and the current immigrants coming over the Mediterranean sea are only adding to the social cost.
if i were a german, i would run. fast.
exit_sandman 8y ago
I bank on
The problem is that the left screwed practically everything up in that regard (and the further left they are, the more oblivious they are to the consequences of their politics): they are basically for lowering retirement ages, their education politics are terrible (German federal states that have been dominated by social democrats lag 2-3 years behind those that have been dominated by conservatives for decades) which means that they produce worse students who in turn are less capable to take on high-qualification jobs (i.e. the only jobs that will reliably be available in the future), and of course feelz are most important for them when it comes to immigration ("but we have to help those poor people!").
drallcom3 8y ago
Yeah, right? It's so comfortable, yet no one does it. Except immigrants, who account for like 50% of the babies. I can't blame them.
Women here don't exactly ride the carousel, but they do stuff like carrer well into their 30s when they first start thinking about children. I know plenty of women who are childless and always will be. None of them have ever mentioned feminist stuff btw. But even women in a good relationship, like the girlfriends of some of my friends, don't get children. You have a woman with no good job, a decent BB at their hand and they still don't get pregnant.
CornyHoosier 8y ago
On one hand, I certainly can't fault any human for wanting to be independent or educate themselves until they are content ... but on the other hand, by the time women are ready to settle down (in their 30's) it's too late for a large amount of them. A lot of women will be fine, but as we can see from the dropping pregnancy numbers, many won't.
Honestly, I don't know how to fix the issue without denying rights to someone. It may soon be a fact that no one is allowed to breed and all birth is done artificially.
drallcom3 8y ago
The society has to go back to traditional gender roles of male provider and his housewife with three children. It's the only way.
Traz_Onmale 8y ago
There still is birth control.
HAMMURABl 8y ago
and increase social expectations to have children. or tax the shit out of childless people.
wouldn't be good for me personally (i don't think i ever want children), but for society thats the way to go.
RedInIzzy 8y ago
More skilled immigrants? From where? Most of Europe is filled with the bottom rung that came running through the open doors after the colonial era passed.
This means importing more people who will want free stuff and have dubious agendas. They'd have to be stupid to do that.
Hopefully controls will be placed upon weapons and the knowledge behind them, seeing as the worst countries for the 3rd worldization are nuclear.
MicroMinion 8y ago
I'm not sure if you ever heard of "Brain drain" but reality is exactly the opposite of what you are describing.
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kick6 8y ago
to late they're already stupid
Veles11 8y ago
As a Polish/Canadian dual citizen I can tell you that there's plenty of unskilled labourers that could come from Poland, which has similar cultural and religious beliefs.
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Veles11 8y ago
Are you sure? It seems like mostly it's just young unskilled men who leave the country to find work in UK, etc.
Hoodwink 8y ago
What slice of population is 'young unskilled men'? It's 'mostly' the majority.
But, you forget, it's not only the unskilled - it's the skilled as well who move out for better salaries. It includes doctors, dentists and academics.
Ambipath 8y ago
Jesus shit, what is going on with all the countries in that region?
Hoodwink 8y ago
Poverty and losing their religion.
By 'losing their religion', I mean it like how the United States lost their religion - most people pay lip service. The Church can't make statements or anything with anyone following or believing it (especially amongst young people).
Poverty means immigration to the U.K. or U.S.
[deleted] 8y ago
This is what any sane person knows, but can't say because race card. A politician from in my country actually said this in more PC terms and was on his way becoming the prime minister. He was completely demonized in the media, with dubious comparisons to Hitler and other dictators. It was completely ridiculous.
He never had the chance to put his policies into practice because he was shot before election time...
After his death, the left parties took a sharp right turn, and basically validates some of his ideas. Before this man, it was possible for foreign immigrants to leech of welfare, without even speaking Dutch or making an effort to learn Dutch!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pim_Fortuyn
letter_of_reprimand 8y ago
Regardless on whether he was right or not, I wouldn't exactly call this PC.
Work_McGurk 8y ago
the guy that murdered him in cold blood is now free!? what the fuck.
[deleted] 8y ago
Are you saying Hitler isn't all that bad?
fourbet 8y ago
Pim is a really interesting character. I wish more gay activists would take a stand against Islam.
It's a beautiful thing watching SJW types try to maneuver around the fact that Islam is inherently hateful when trying to defend it and confronted with the Islamic policy regarding LGBT rights.
[deleted] 8y ago
He was great. You should have seen the guy debate against the PC politicians. Just pure logic and deduction, laced with bit of humour, the public was just eating out of his hand. Compared with the retarded emotional appeals of the other politicians (vote for us, we'll give you free shit!!), he truly was one of a kind. He also trolled a female journalist, by saying that she should go back to the kitchen. The media tried to make a fuss out of this, but no one really gave a shit.
His homosexuality really was a great trump card against the SJW types.
CharlieIndiaShitlord 8y ago
Reminds me of Milo Yiannopoulos, a gay journalist from the UK. Gets away with so much shit that a straight man would be torn apart for. It is hilarious.
fourbet 8y ago
Just re-read about his assassination on wiki.
It is absolutely insane that a guy who committed a political assassination in 2002 got paroled in 2014. I'm not a big fan of punitive sentencing but doing 12 years for a planned assassination? Come off it...
BhiQ 8y ago
I'm not sure I disagree with Islam being hateful but I genuinely doubt it's more hateful than Christianity.
Both bible and quran contain passages that condone xenophobia or even murder.
the_code_always_wins 8y ago
The difference is that Jesus has several passages saying that you shouldn't interpret this stuff literally if it does more harm than good(ie stopped a woman from being stoned to death for adultery). This gives Christians a lot of flexibility to ignore Bible passages. The Quran is very explicit that it should be read literally.
fourbet 8y ago
Yes.
And mocking Christianity and Christians is a lot more socially acceptable than mocking Islam and Muslims.
SJW's put Islam on a pedestal compared to Judaism and Christianity when they're all inherently anti-gay ideologies.
MicroMinion 8y ago
SJW's where? Last time I checked SJW's were all protesting against hijabs for muh freedom.
slay_it_forward 8y ago
Took at shart? Lozlozkolzlo
jsl2837 8y ago
European RP'ers, let me know if I'm full of shit, but I hear the Germans have a pretty good welfare system where you can claim a minimum wage for having autism, for example. So lots of high-introversion betas/omegas are going [NEET] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEET) and forsaking the rat race.
Since marriage and the birth rate are utterly dependent on male commitment, the trend of men dropping out of the rat race inevitably has a massive impact on the birth rate.
It's different from other countries without a welfare system where you either work or become homeless.
The million-dollar question is: Is there any reason besides the immediately practical one (get money for doing nothing) for the high number of men dropping out?
Obviously, there is: Due to female hypergamy, an average-looking, average-earning beta will still remain sexually invisible after busting his ass during his prime years working in some godforsaken soul-killing cubicle job. Blue collar work is less mindnumbing and more physical, but still pays peanuts, does very little for your SMV that lifting won't, and wears out your body FAST.
Men are quickly waking up to the reality that being a salaried employee supporting a woman and children is just a shortcut to the grave. Decades ago they would have had the romantic vision of being the respected/beloved head of their household. Due to the gradual wholesale unmasking of the feminine imperative (alpha fucks, beta bucks) that white lie has been exposed. There is next to no sexual incentive for men of low or average SMV to bust their asses, especially not if the country in question has a generous welfare system.
[deleted] 8y ago
Oh and the climate for young entrepreneurs without capital is not friendly.
popthatpill 8y ago
Women don't care if their country gets overrun with foreigners. All women care about is getting into the harems of the top guys, whether they're locals or foreign conquerors. As far as women are concerned, one is as good as the other.
Patriotism is a guy thing.
SpongeCroft 8y ago
Patriotism? IN GERMANY?
Haha-fucking-ha.
makethemsayayy 8y ago
They don't give a fuck about anything other than themselves. Men vote for some ideological reason such as "who would be best for the country" but most women vote based on personal feelings. You hit the nail on the head.
UzairDjillaliYahud 8y ago
yep they don't care. You can clearly observe this type of behaviour in apes and monkeys. Youtube
If a monkey kills the Alpha of a group he becomes the new Alpha. He then goes on and kills the babies of the old Alpha and then proceed to pimp the females. They don't care that he just killed the father of the their babies, the leader of the group and THEIR OWN FUCKING BABIES, they just go own with their lives and get pregant by the murder of their kids.
Though a human woman most likely never would have sex with the murder of her kids. But her brain still is telling her just to move on to the next best opportunity even if her own race gets outbreed.
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Cmon_Just_The_Tip 8y ago
That's sad. Really sad. Look, I don't wanna start a debate on eugenics, but not having nordic people reproduce in big numbers is a fucking shame. You'd be a fool to not acknowledge that genetic pool is fucking gold.
The women have amazing hair, eyes and complexion. They produce solid offspring. And the guys are just fucking studs. Tall, incredibly good looking.
Call me hitler for all I care, but those are clearly genes worthy of being passed.
What a shame it would be if their women increasingly received weak beta seed and raised even more chumps.
nixon007 8y ago
Maybe feminism is a population control protocal to introduce robots to make up for the shortage in labourers.
Adolf_ghandi 8y ago
Every sys admin is like: ROLL THAT SHIT BACK NOW! IT WORKED BEFORE!!!
politicans: nope we continue the BS!
onepill_twopill 8y ago
I think the Germans will be the first or second to rebel against this though. I've been looking at a fair bit of German culture and history and I reckon that as soon as they get ticked off enough, no more mr nice guy. I mean, they had some of europe's first Anti-Islam protests.
LongtimeRPLurker 8y ago
Lol, I'm a German and I can assure you that most Germans don't have a single rebellious bone in them. This is the mentality of the average German: http://i.imgur.com/HfdyDFO.jpg
smokefreeyear 8y ago
Not a german, but have been living here for 5 years.
I have seen some rebelious germans. They are 7 usually "links orientiert" and write stupid shit on the walls of beautiful buildings, like "grenzen töten(kill the borders)" und "kein mensch ist illegal(no man is illegal)".
They also hate fraternities with a passion, at least in my city.
RedAdalwolf 8y ago
I don't think any western nation is going to "rebel." This was a war of the mind that was lost decades ago.
oldredder 8y ago
They didn't rebel against Hitler, they won't rebel this time.
squirtmasterd 8y ago
That's because most Germans loved Hitler, the idea he took over with force was spun so vengeance against Germany wouldn't be sought. The idea Germans didn't know about concentration camps is ludicrous.
NidStyles 8y ago
Why would they? They wanted what Hitler offered. He returned their land to them.
London-Bananas 8y ago
Hitler was widely popular, it's just easy to blame it all on one dead guy when the war is over and all the harm is done. You don't conquer Europe with soldiers who're forced to fight.
oldredder 8y ago
Hitler was just an example as we were talking about Germany. MOST rebellions fail and most times people want to rebel, they just fold and let the new overlord destroy everything.
Stories_of_Red 8y ago
On what date? Because there was that whole totalitarian state thing at some point.
Put another way, when you liquidate all your political opponents after assuming office, it may well look like you are popular and supported, since no one runs against you or even says a word in opposition to you. But that is not the same as actually being popular with the populace.
oldredder 8y ago
1932 if I recall Hitler was very popular. The war didn't even start until 1939.
4nn1h1l4tor 8y ago
Hitler was actually a good politician (as in "efficient") until crazy happened.
CharlieIndiaShitlord 8y ago
Hitler was primarily looked at as having 'quirks' by his own people. It was very easy for them to ignore however, because at the time the economy was in a massive shambles, and he came along promising work for everyone. More to the point, these massive public projects did happen, and unemployment dropped to negligible numbers. The Autobahn is a prime example of one of these public projects.
I'm not excusing this massive prick, I'm just explaining that he was a lot more popular with the German people at the time than some may assume.
RedAdalwolf 8y ago
Hitler was the rebellion. Against forced enslavement after WWI. Against the hedonistic filth the Jews propagated then as they do today. Against the red plague sweeping Europe both culturally and politically.
Even "redpillers," astute as they are, still don't question propaganda. Perhaps this documentary, The Greatest Story Never Told, will shed some new light on the subject.
oldredder 8y ago
You've been so badly fooled it's not even funny.
Hitler was not the rebellion.
Hitler like many alongside him had been fueled by bankers funding 2 sides of the same war to get maximum profit.
What you write is the most impossible lie that must be dismissed immediately as Nazi propaganda and Pure Stupidium, somehow concentrated into atomic, pure form.
RedAdalwolf 8y ago
There were financial backings from foreign parties interested in the stake of German corporations, but that was pre-1933. Take a look at How Hitler Defied the Bankers for a great overview of why the international banking cartel (Jewry) wanted Hitler destroyed.
On the contrary, Hitler repudiated the international bankers and established a new government currency in 1933. Not only did this completely bypass the bankers, but his immediate success was setting a dangerous precedent for other countries to follow. There was no greater threat to the bankers than Hitler, which is why I cannot take your claim seriously.
oldredder 8y ago
actually Hitler got money directly from Goldman, the founder of Goldman Sachs, a Jew. Mind you that was before the Jew-killing stuff became known but he still got the money.
Again: you have been lied to completely and are naive and believe only the lies.
The core of the red pill is economics and has been since before there ever was a reddit or subreddit called theredpill
Audunis 8y ago
Well, the wise politicians insist ethnic Germans don't exist.
sqrt7744 8y ago
As a medical doctor in Germany I am acutely aware of this. The system is rotten to the core. Taxation and spending on garbage is crippling the productive sector of the economy, destroying potential productive jobs and forcing people to work more to maintain a decent standard of living.. This means both people in a relationship must work which leaves little time for child rearing. Kindergartens are woefully scarce and waiting lists are long. The problem in virtually all of the instances is the state interfering and preventing the free market from operating efficiently. The solution which practically everyone seems blind to, is to get the state out of the way. Reduce taxes. Let kindergartens operate like any other business - no central planning. Get rid of the (newly introduced) minimum wage which makes hiring an elderly nanny prohibitively expensive. In a free market without labor laws wages rise naturally, there are plenty of historical examples. Guess what quotas do? Pay more people to do the same work. Products become more expensive across the board so your Euro doesn't buy as much anymore. It should be possible for one parent to support the family as it often was until 1950-60. The solution is not political, it is getting rid of politicians.
watersign 8y ago
as a jew, i will say this. germanys problem is a jewish one and they need to tell Merkel and all other goldman sachs paid for shills to fuck off and stop letting mud immigrants in
sqrt7744 8y ago
Well that's part of it, but we're back to my original point. We have politicians promising benefits to foreign usurpers. Can't really blame the uneducated non Europeans though.. Who wouldn't take up the offer of free stuff? Get rid of the reason they want to come here and they'll stop coming.
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Veles11 8y ago
Most men in first world countries are now realizing that having children leaves them in an absolutely ridiculous situation. You basically relinquish all of your free time, have a women controlling many aspects of your life, AND you're paying hundreds of thousands $ over 18 years (more since you'll be paying for uni probably)
A lot of people, myself included, would want to have a son after they are well off financially, but for me the costs really outweigh the benefits.
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[deleted] 8y ago
That article about Mengele is one of the coolest things I've ever read. Who, even today with molecular genetics and genome scans and all sorts of crazy IVF technology, could induce women to give birth to blond, blue-eyed twins? How in the hell did this 1940s-era doctor do this genetic engineering fifty years ago??
SpongeCroft 8y ago
he had the help of lots of dead jews. human experiments are pretty effective, yet cruel.
contajogafora1 8y ago
Yeah, it's pretty cool to read about it today. But Mengele was a crazy fuck even for nazi standards. To do the things he did you literally needed what he had, Auschwitz "concentration" camp. His wikipedia article reads like a horror movie.
antariusz 8y ago
Artificially inseminate brazilian women with sperm from a blong haired blue eyed man known for having twins.
It's not "complicated" and it's not really "genetic engineering" more so than what farmers have been doing with their plants for thousands of years.
edit: if you think "Pedro" is the father of Jesus, even though his wife Consuela never cheated on him... well... "the test results are in, you are not the father" It's just Alpha Fucks being a little too obvious, you have to be pretty beta to believe that these children are "genetically engineered" from their own fathers... it's not like he was doing genetic manipulation on the father's sperm.
[deleted] 8y ago
All I know is from a cursory reading, but there are a few problems with that: 1) the twin thing is a persistent effect, existing to the present day, 2) how did Mengele get fresh sperm from the blond-haired, blue-eyed man "known for having twins"? it's 1960s Brasil, 3) if he did manage to get fresh sperm, how could he possibly artificially inseminate a large portion of a small town? 4) why would he bother with already-pregnant women?
I'm not saying that Mengele did or did not do whatever it is he's claimed to have done, I'm just saying that your explanation doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
antariusz 8y ago
Alternatively, mad scientist practices genetic manipulation decades before the rest of the world discovers the technology... Or Chad Thundercock visits a small town in Brazil and many women fuck and have kids with tall attractive blonde man passing through occasionally rather than the local "boring" providers from the local population.
How much blue pill conditioning do you need to believe that these women simply didn't cuckold their men with attractive German tourists. That you're willing to believe Nazi scientists instead performed experiments 30 years later. Despite there being zero evidence that that nazi scientist lived there.
[deleted] 8y ago
Cuckoldry doesn't actually happen all that often, at a rate of 1-2%.
I find it not entirely implausible that a Nazi mad scientist obsessed with twins managed to discover an environmental factor which induces women to twin at a rate far higher than normal. On the other hand, it could just be a founder effect.
antariusz 8y ago
I've talked about this many times in the red pill, but early studies in the 60s/70s that showed 1-3% (among white married couples) were massively flawed and slanted to provide the lowest numbers possible. Only when it was completely impossible for the child to be the father's, was paternity disputed with blood typing. Using genetic testing on random groups of people the rate is higher. With non-married couples it's higher, with "poor" (aka average) people it's higher.
If you are white, suburban, in rural michigan in the late 60s, with a good income, it's 3%
If you're black, poor, living in the ghetto, and suspect your girlfriend of cheating, it's 30%.
Very recent studies from Mexico and Canada say 10%
How often do you think poor rural brazilians decide to fuck european tourists?
Hypergamy does not care.
[deleted] 8y ago
Okay. I have no reason to doubt your numbers, but it should be noted that the towns purportedly visited by Mengele were, and are, nearly wholly populated by persons of German extraction. In other words, it's a town of white, intact German families who just happen to live in Brazil. I suspect that, prior to the ongoing cultural deterioration which began in the sixties, Blacks and the poor had similar rates. It's a very highly politicized topic, no matter your political leanings. Not being particularly susceptible to cuckoldry, myself, I never much bothered to care.
On closer inspection, I think it's probably founder effect.
edit:
Devvils 8y ago
Australian solution - target of 3 kids per couple.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f80VFTnGfYw
"You should have one for the father, one for the mother and one for the country. If you want to fix the ageing demographic, that's what you do," urged Treasurer Peter Costello in the climactic throes of Tuesday's federal budget.
[deleted] 8y ago
"Your demographic is not my problem," replied me.
workunit13 8y ago
Birth rates are due to the intelligent people realizing life will be too hard to raise children.
This is a failure of government because its essentially slavery, not feminism this time.
shuaiya 8y ago
Where's the problem, isn't a low birth rate a good thing now? Japan and Germany should be given an award.
l0ng_time_lurker 8y ago
You are welcome - I am one of them - up for drinks @TRP , if you venture between Frankfurt and Heidelberg / Mannheim -let´s drink to my country and the continent going down the drain.
TamingDebt 8y ago
That is a weak mindset and I have no respect for you
l0ng_time_lurker 8y ago
Thanks, but if TRP has tought me one thing it´s not to succumb to 3rd party expectations and impregnate any other woman just to play house and do my duty as a german citizen - quallity women are rare - if you are not in an LTR after 30 you must compromise on quality or choose to stay out of an LTR / remain childless
chairmobile 8y ago
You're fucking dumb. The entire point of TRP is to improve yourself and work on yourself, because you can't change your country.
Not having delusions is a weak mindset? Fine, my mindset is weak.
TamingDebt 8y ago
Celebrating the destruction of one's own homelands and culture is weak in my opinion. It's something our ancestors wouldn't have stood for.
chairmobile 8y ago
I don't think he meant he was actually pleased to see this happen...
bryanlharris 8y ago
It would appear they are on step 6.3.
The Vision of the Anointed
oldredder 8y ago
Expansionism is a mistake. You want more land per person not less. Birth rates should stop to equilibrium for good.
We have too many humans and not enough skill in each to work the land properly for long-term survival.
Megacities are a mistake. This earth should have NONE.
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oldredder 8y ago
It can not.
Our planet is already strained to support what we have.
Most of the sea surface is useless to us because it's salty and moves too much.
Much of the land is mountains or soils too devoid of nutrients we can grow food in, or arctic and so no food will grow there, or desert.
You've been badly misled.
These vast areas might support 1 person per 1000 km^2 but only if that person is industrious, able to use horse, camel, bike, some kind of scooter-buggy AND be able to manufacture all the parts alone and their own fuel. The land is that vast and that empty of useful materials for machines, fuel, food or water.
At 7 billion the earth is over-filled and will with 0% error cause species extinction very soon. This is carved in stone now.
At 5 billion if we went stable there we probably could have been a little safer but the garbage culture of literally filling holes with garbage is a limiting factor. We need that soil, that surface area, we need the volumes of land for living in and building in, for growing food, not to store garbage. Much of this garbage can be recycled into other materials like oil or refined metals. It will cost energy but newly available energy is less difficult to get than newly available surface-area on Earth or volume of Earth under it that we can use.
To fill it with poison is insanity. The reason nature never had this problem before is all waste materials were living things gone dead and could be returned to the soil without a problem - that IS what most of the soil really is. Left-over corpses from eons ago.
Disaster532385 8y ago
You are underplaying the economic aspect in Europe in the plummeting birthrates. We have reached a point where we will never be as rich as our parents. They were almost guarenteed to find a job after their study and were able to buy housing as an investment. Purchasing it for cheap and see it's value rising every year. Now for every open position there are hundeds of candidates. Employers only want to hire people on a short term basis, reducing job security. And the housemarket crashed, which means the time where a house was profitable investment is gone forever.
Since having kids costs a fuckton, rational people will wait with getting kids until they are in a position where they can afford it.
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AirNova 8y ago
Hopefully soon enough the low birthdate won't effect it as Autos become increasingly common the need for immigrant labor will fall to near zero levels
holzy444 8y ago
This is another example of how necessary the traditional complementary relationship is for humans to flourish. We're made to work together and make each other better. This is what the marriage 2.0 relationship fails to account for, and ultimately why many countries have less marriages and less new children.
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TimeHoTraveler 8y ago
Oh please. This is fear mongering bullshit Islam is nothing in the US and blacks and Hispanics are more Christian than white people on average.
Enough with the FOX news/stormfront talking points
Fishy19 8y ago
Hey man, you should properly read what I said. The US does NOT have issues with muslims ;)
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[deleted] 8y ago
Educators in Brussels are being threatened by muslim families of students for teaching evolution in the class room?
There's been a long custom in muslim communities of having dual faces, one for the outside world and the society they live in, and one that is practiced in the home.
I'm not discrediting you, this may be an actual problem. It's just in my experience with muslims, this has rarely been the case. If anything they back pedal to fit whatever social norms of a society are. Like feminism in the west.
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IlliterateIllyrian 8y ago
He's not prejudice. He doesn't want to see his culture disintegrate before him.
[deleted] 8y ago
IlliterateIllyrian, you are on this website because you choose to think for yourself atleast to some extent.
So think about predujice, to the extent it relates to preconceived notions not being based on actual reality. Cultures don't disintegrate, they become reintegrated into societies.
None of us are an island, none of our cultures are authentic in that they haven't been pulled from a thousand other migrating or conquering peoples. To ignore this is to have a limited view of human history.
He references white population repeatedly, as opposed to hispanics, blacks, muslims (i'm assuming he's referring to brown people in general). He's talking about the destruction of europe at the hands of immigration.
If that isn't a predujice i'm not sure what you think qualifies as one. Europe won't be destroyed, it'll change. Please don't think that i'm trying to attack you, i'm trying to put your thoughts into a greater context.
chairmobile 8y ago
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/16/opinion/multiculturalism-and-rape-in-rotherham.html?_r=0
yeah keep telling yourself that
[deleted] 8y ago
You just linked to an article by the new york times, called The England that is forever Pakistan, Multiculturalism and rape in Rotherham.
You're linking new york times. God bless your sweet soul, child. No wonder your thinking is the way it is, you have such poor avenues for information.
Victimization is not the path to TRP.
chairmobile 8y ago
Point out where the events cited are faulty or stop spouting nonsense.
[deleted] 8y ago
The events cited are faulty because it's confirmation bias, first off. Secondly, it's taken out of context.
Everyone who drinks water will die one day. Water is killing people.
That's the type of logic you're using. My father was a statistician, and he imparted some cold hard logic.
He would have a field day with that article in terms of out-of-context data and how this contributes to bad statistics.
chairmobile 8y ago
You have proven literally 0 of your claims. Your comment is laughable. You just state your argument, throw in some false equivalence, and pat yourself on the back.
[deleted] 8y ago
False equivalence and back pats.
Sounds like what you've been doing. I cant even comment on your points if you refuse to use grown-up arguments.
You can find an article agreeing with anything you can think up of at this point. Frankly, now im just taking issue with your lack of logic.
How deep does this dungeon go...
privated1ck 8y ago
All this population decline has happened since the destruction of the two-parent, one-income home that--as some of us witnessed--happened in the '70s and continues through today. Where are birth rates steady and rising? In nuclear families with strong religious faith, in areas not plagued by dictatorship and war.
aakksshhaayy 8y ago
Except the majority in Japan follow the two parent one income ideal... maybe read up before coming up with your theories
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privated1ck 8y ago
LOL Japan has its own fucked-up-ness, not really comparable
Moridakkubokka 8y ago
Country's gone to hell, the only thing that could probably prolong this feminism ridden shit society is greatly automatizing jobs, rationalisation, using robots and the like.
Fucking hell, we're gonna end up a pussified matriarchy if there isn't another major world war soon.
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CornyHoosier 8y ago
Every man in here should take a good look at themselves. We are the men our grandparents wanted their grand children to be. We all have our weaknesses, but our strengths are so much more than our parents.
Overall the men of America are taller, stronger, more educated, more traveled & wealthier than any American before us. If you've taken TRP knowledge to heart, then you're well-groomed, financially stable (or on the right path), know how to interact with others & have control over your own emotions. Many of us here, myself included, have made significant strides in bettering ourselves and have seen real results. I know exactly who I used to be, so know in what areas I have progressed.
We young men are the ones being blamed for societies failures. A society that we've barely been apart of, and certainly don't have any congressional representation in. It's unfortunate that a large portion of our society does not realize that things have significantly changed since they were our age. I will not be caged into marriage and I will not be caged into an unwanted pregnancy. I'm too smart for that.
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London-Bananas 8y ago
Not the best idea if you plan on starting a world war within the foreseeable future
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HAMMURABl 8y ago
Trust me, Germany 2015 is like the opposite of Germany 1935. As op said, todays germany will push for more women working and more immigrants to counter the ever declining birth rate.
The causal thinking of "more women working" » "less babies" can MAYBE be seen by the average german, but solutions of sort "women staying more at home would solve the demographic catastrophe" are completely anathema to him.
Its like the germans cant find a stable midpoint, they have to go from one extreme to the other.
onepill_twopill 8y ago
Every culture has advantages and disadvantages. The German disadvantage is the lack of being able to have a midpoint, like an on-off switch.
[deleted] 8y ago
I'm fascinated by what will happen in Germany. Will another leader arise to take back the country, or will it become a nation of towelhead nutjobs? Eighty years from a proud German people to a weak, castrated German people, will there be a German people in another eighty years?
kalstate 8y ago
Of course, they're called Amish.
[deleted] 8y ago
There are no Amish in Germany, and the Amish in America have neither a German identity nor a German state.
That is to say, they're German in the same way that white Americans are European.
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[deleted] 8y ago
If we're talking about Amish vs. American identity, then it seems to me to be a fair comparison. The Amish are a weird, off-beat offshoot of the Germans of a few centuries ago, so they've inherited German-type language and religion and other cultural things. America is a weird, off-beat offshoot of the English of a few centuries ago, so we've inherited the English language, Protestantism, the Puritan work ethic, a parliament-like legislative system, and other cultural things. We inherit certain things, yet we maintain separate, unique identities.
Anyway, it's hard to talk about these things because the meanings of words like "identity" and "state" and "culture" are so fluid.
TamingDebt 8y ago
I think there's bound to be a tipping point in many of these European nations importing immigrants en masse. I don't think this is necessarily a violent tipping point (nor do I hope it is). I just think when the demographics shift really far in the direction of African immigrants, and the average German doesn't even feel comfortable, safe, or surrounded by peers in their own country, they will likely establish some measures of self-segregation like in South Africa.
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TamingDebt 8y ago
The liberals won't back down and concede, but the rational people who can recognize that their immigrants aren't helping their society will self-segregate, like in South Africa.
kick6 8y ago
I think it's necessarily violent, and I hope it is, or it won't be successful.
TamingDebt 8y ago
I don't think there's any need for that. I agree that the European people should self-segregate, but that's all it takes. No need to harm innocents.
kick6 8y ago
These peoples have already infiltrated. How, exactly, do you expect to get them to leave without violence?
[deleted] 8y ago
Well, stop bitching about it and either : try to change it or go live your life, in a country where most males are betas, you'll live as a king if you want it.
Evolution my friend, weak things will disappear and be replaced by stronger things, stronger as in stronger, not as in moral or logical or right.
edit : why would you even want to save a feminist country from collapsing, they wouldn't do shit for you if the roles were reversed, and empires come and go, plague, religion, communism, now it's feminism, and it's not good or bad, it's natural. You'd think the cause of the regress in birth rate is obvious, we can see it's because men don't want to get fucked by having children, but the vast majority of the population are either betas or feminists, and frankly, they don't deserve to be saved, the matrix attains a point when it should be restarted, wiped out and recreated, it's not the first or the second or even the last time.
Pkbeefatude 8y ago
There is a lot more that goes into birth rates than simple feminism but the culture of today has certainly contributed.
Birth rates fall with affluence usually (obvious exceptions at certain times in history). This has been observed as far back as the Roman Republic.
Contraception wasn't widely available until the last 70ish years
And any time there are major economic and geopolitical crisis both rates fall. Birth rates also fell during the 1970's and prior to that in the 30's and 40's etc. etc.
Right now the west is at a major extreme with birth rates but in 5 or so years if the economy turns around you'll see millennials (by then 20-40) will start blasting out kids like crazy
seius 8y ago
I was talking to my girlfriend about this, and how it's going to continue to get worse until the system resets back to normal, and the muslims will be the majority oppressing the women again. Maybe it's just a cycle though, and they will get feminized too, and it will be reset by the next again.
MagicGainbow 8y ago
Considering how German women are and the fact that the fairness of German laws prevents them from pulling shit i'm not surprised.
Wtfiwwpt 8y ago
Multiculturism is the leading edge of a global depression. Instead of extending a helping hand to "3rd world nations", we are extending a free citizenship to a "1st world nation". The drag on developed nations will grow exponentially until the system breaks down, ushering in a economic depression worldwide. In no case will this lead to "the rich" being any less rich. But it will mean the destruction of the middle class, demoting them to low class to join all the imported citizens that brought the system down.
fake7272 8y ago
Germany also has prostitution legalized. why the fuck would I marry and have a kid if I could have my dick sucked every day for 100 francs. (or whatever currency they have)
l0ng_time_lurker 8y ago
Actually I can get my dick sucked for 30-50 Euros in a clean establishment - 2mins away from my former local. Thats 30-50 USD
Gackt 8y ago
lol never heard of the euro?
(i know your jk)
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JeanValjean197o 8y ago
I've heard that by the end of this century, Muslims will be the majority of the population in Germany.
The Muslim patriarchal family structure will reproduce faster, immigrate faster, and eventually dominate German culture.
There is a reason why no "matriarchy" has ever survived in human history without tall mountains or wide oceans to protect it.
I wonder what Germany will look like in 50 years?
Zachar1a 8y ago
In other words, more Muslims. You know, those people who still raise families.
NADER_THE_GATOR 8y ago
In regards to why people in power are doing this, I always thought they just do what people want them to do to stay in power, they don't even think about whether if it's good or bad
watersign 8y ago
dont worry..we'll import niggers and muslims to fix the issue! oy vey
[deleted] 8y ago
Solution: Make marriage laws fair. Mandatory Pre-nup, Restore Fault divorce. Stop alimony and child support.
Future if solution is not applied: Women marrying other women and divorcing, splitting visitation rights over their test tube baby.
Stories_of_Red 8y ago
But still demanding that men "man up" and pay for their kids, via bachelor taxes, while they, the mothers, continue their crucial work in the local community theater group, because art.
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DaphneDK 8y ago
When looking at it from the outside, it's also a genetic experiment on a unprecedented scale. The future belongs to those that have children. Both the genetic line as well as the culture of those segments of society that are not having children will die off. By all accounts Christians and conservatives ought to be looking at a revival a few decades down the line.
DarkenedDystopia 8y ago
Of course it's nothing more women and african men can't fix!
sardinemanR 8y ago
The world was fine with 1/10th of the current population, I promise you it will be fine with 9/10ths or even 1/2 the current population. This "crisis" is media manufactured, and also partly a fear by bankers and the other parasite classes that they might actually have to do real work again, without more ponzi slaves to take advantage of.
Just stick to TRP principles and take care of yourself. And then when it's time to go, it's time to go, you didn't think you would live forever did you? I don't see why it matters. You're a man, you were always expected to take care of yourself and work as long as you could, what changed? The fact that you might get paid more and valued more if there are less people around? Uh, that's not a negative...for an RP man.
DannyDemotta 8y ago
Your first paragraph directly contradicts the second. Do you think Blue Pill types climb the ladder to be CEO of Jp Morgan or Citi? Uhh....No.
Look, i know you liberal/bernie sanders types want to have your cake and eat it too -- vote Liberal whilst decrying their policies -- but sooner or later you need to slay that cognitive dissonance running wild in your mind.
HAMMURABl 8y ago
yup. but wait and see how the world will look after a 90% decline of white population and an increase of muslim/african population.
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DexterousRichard 8y ago
While all this is true, I should point out a couple of things.
The achievements of the white race(s) have been pretty awesome altogether, but white people as a whole are far from glowingly perfect. It's the best of us who have pushed our civilization forward. The inbred idiots in Appalachia? Not so much. and there are plenty of examples like that. I see fucking idiots every day, and a lot of them are white. And a lot of geniuses are white.
My point is only that the 'white race' is not the OMEGA of all races. It is not a perfect race, and there is no perfect race. There are better and worse races when their qualities are taken as a whole, but there is no perfect race that should be preserved unchanged forever.
For example, Japanese can live in massive fucking cities like Tokyo and be so civilized that there are pretty much no 'dangerous' areas at all, even at 4am. The city in the US where I am now is a wreck, and it's not only because of black people (although to a large degree). Whites have always had a criminal element, and have been stupid enough to let blacks and now Hispanics fuck up our greatest cities. (Think about the crimes and criminals in 19th century England...)
So anyway, if you're scientifically minded, HBD is great and everything, but you also have to recognize that our genome includes a mixture of good and bad qualities, and heterozygosity is good for us - we should attempt to improve ourselves through eugenics, not just by 'preserving' a race... The one exception I think I would make is for blacks, who on balance don't really have any beneficial traits over other races except being able to live in shit fucking hot climates and running really far.
But as for immigration, taking a step back, all empires I think have experienced the same thing. Empires develop massive international cities, and encompass many peoples and races in their bounds. Eventually, those people mix and migrate to the most prosperous areas, and once things start to decline, swamp the original founding people, who have lost their mojo. This is the ebb and flow of history. Those founding peoples won't 'die out', but move on and live under the next empire...
Deresetese 8y ago
The world will be fine, just different. Times change, ideologies change and the people who life to see a world that's dominated by muslims and africans will have their own way of living.
So long as we don't kill us all, humankind will be fine
Dornerthecoroner 8y ago
Look at what Africans are doing to the Boers in South Africa mate
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HAMMURABl 8y ago
lets hope they wont
Prattler26 8y ago
World will be fine with 1/10th current population, but our fiat currency ponzi economy will collapse. It already is collapsing.
Stories_of_Red 8y ago
Just a whole lot poorer. Sure hope productivity gains are incredible between now and a return to that population, otherwise...
sardinemanR 8y ago
Lower populations=wealthier due to more resources per person.
If you want to see poor, go to a high population area...like India. That is poor. All the people there don't make them rich.
Stories_of_Red 8y ago
Yeah, and NYC is poverty stricken too, just like London, Paris, Tokyo and Hong Kong./s
My guess is, if you ran the numbers, population density is not even as strongly-correlated factor you seem to think it is, let alone the causative force.
magus678 8y ago
I see the "population decline" posited as a boogeyman on TRP quite a bit, and what is really being said is that the "wrong" people are being born. In this case, wrong usually being non-white people. I mean world population is increasing, to the tune of about 10 billion by 2050.
Ignoring all the social/political posturing about those numbers, the simple fact is that ecologically they aren't sustainable at anything approaching the American standard of living. The current population couldn't be sustained at the American standard of living. Strangely, one of the few benefits to come out of feminism might be it's reduction of birthrate and population.
Most of the conversation people have on this subject boils down to a bunch of people fighting over who gets to wear the captain's hat, while the ship itself is sinking. Basically, the kind of shit women do.
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Gackt 8y ago
Overpopulation can be bad.
"Under"population can't be bad.
/argument
magus678 8y ago
I'm not going to bother responding to this unless you cite some scientific data supporting it. That I can address.
My experience has been that no matter how much data I would throw at you, you would just say "liberal propaganda" and ignore it. Its not worth the trouble.
boscoist 8y ago
Nuvlear power with recycling ( similar process to u235 enrichment) would allow us to have near unlimited power for centuries, even assuming increasing consumption.
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marlybarrow 8y ago
Could you give us material for thorium, fission and fusion.
trplurker 8y ago
What exactly are you asking about? Thorium is a fuel cycle where the Thorium 232 captures a neutron then goes through a chain reaction that generates energy. It's more common then Uranium and in a fluid reactor it can burn all the waste products made.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium_fuel_cycle
Fusion is a different beast entirely. Traditionally research attempts were limited to Tokomak reactors only, which have demonstrated some severe problems with magnetic field stability. For a long time only big governments did fusion research and so, like nearly all government projects it tends to become wasteful and career orientated over time. In the last two decades we've had several independent entities start researching their own fusion methods that are vastly cheaper then the tokomak. Tri-alpha, Helios, Polywell and several others.
DollarWill 8y ago
Being physically capable of maintaining exponential growth is not the same as cultivating said growth to it's most efficient state.
By limiting energy consumption to our energy "income" from the sun, it allows us to re-purpose the other energy assets we have. Theoretically to enable space exploration and colonization. Something we do not require a large population to achieve.
trplurker 8y ago
This makes absolutely no sense, it's some post modern hogwash.
No. Just no.
The Sun doesn't provide anywhere near enough usable energy for our civilization to live above a 1930's lifestyle. I really can't stress that thermodynamics fucks us over here by limiting the amount of incidental energy we can recover from Sun light. Our atmosphere does a great job of dispersing and diffusing the light such that it's impossible to build a cheap PE cell capable of converting it into any sort of usable power. That leaves us with relying on thermal solutions, focusing the light into a tower with a thermal liquid (either water or some high temperature liquid) and then using that liquid to turn a turbine where thermodynamics further kicks our teeth in. It's a fools errand and progressives know this, it's why they push it so much. Once you leave the atmosphere a lot changes, raw sunlight hasn't been diffused or polarized is much easier to create an optimized PE cell.
In all cases solar can provide no where near enough power for our civilization. If every feasible landmass was loaded up solar farms in the entire world, you'd get enough power to supply only the USA circa 2006. We would have to kill everyone else in the world and use their land to create that power, or we'd have to give up all our electronic lives, all our internets, computers and technological advancements and go back to 1930~1950's living conditions, except worse because the progressives won't let us use natural gas, coal or oil for heating or fuel. Or we can embrace new nuclear and continue our technological advancement, raise our standard of living world wide, and evolve our society. All without committing genocide on 2/3rds of the worlds population.
Seriously that is what progressive liberals want, to go outside and shoot two of every three people they see in order to "reduce" the worlds population. You guys just too much of pussies to admit it.
magus678 8y ago
I notice you failed to cite any research.
curiousthis 8y ago
Here, let me do your homework for you.
magus678 8y ago
It isn't my homework.
Food is not the only concern.
Stories_of_Red 8y ago
Thank you for stopping by, Dr. Malthus, but your most recent disciple in this field, Prof. Ehrlich, didn't do any better than you in making your case.
magus678 8y ago
I am not talking about only food. There are many other finite resources that go into an American standard of living.
If it was just a matter of feeding everyone, we simply stop eating meat. There, done deal, add a few more billion.
curiousthis 8y ago
The're only finite if you put your blinkers on and pretend the earth is a closed system.
Yes, that will be expensive. But it will be cheaper than doing without those resources.
trplurker 8y ago
They are far more abundant then that.
Progressives have a very bad grasp of physics. They think that if you "burn" something it's destroyed forever, which it's just converted from one form to another. Virtually everything can be recycled or synthesized, as long as you have enough energy. Energy is the lifeblood of any living species, the more freely available energy is the more advanced that species can become. Limit the supply of energy and a species will devolve or die off.
A good example of liberal ignorance is oil. Liberal progressives will decry that we are "running out of oil", which is actually not true. Not only have we only explored the thinnest slice of the top most layer, which guarantees that there are vast quantities of this material deeper down, but we can synthesize and fuel from CO2 and H2O. Any hydrocarbon can be synthesized, provided sufficient energy is present. And we can get all that energy from nuclear. In fact the US Navy has already developed, built and tested a technology that does this in the middle of the Ocean so they can resupply their diesel ships and refuel their jets without needing fuel from land.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUUMz3Uv0ps
"Peak Oil" solved. Drop a large Gen IV fission nuke or fusion plant near the Ocean, filter out the CO2 and bicarbonate from the Ocean along with some free Hydrogen. Mix the the two together with a catalyst and a shit ton of energy and you have an infinite supply of hydrocarbon fuels. The primary driving costs will be building the damn reactor, which for Gen IV's is damn cheap compared to Gen II's that we're running now.
Water isn't rare at all, the planet is covered in it. "Fresh Water" is just water that's been purified and we have many purification and desalinization process's. The major driving cost for those isn't' material but rather the energy it takes. With cheap energy we can provide as much water as anyone needs. Water doesn't vanish after it's used, it doesn't disappear into some intergalactic black hole. It gets flushed down the toilet, processed through sewage and dumped back into the environment where it runs into the ocean, gets evaporated (or desalinized) and eventually makes its way back to where it started. With sufficient energy you can just reprocess the stuff at the treatment plant and recycle it back to where it came from.
Food is another thing we can easily create, given sufficient energy. Land mass used to be a big limiter but with greenhouse and artificial growing methods we can grow in virtually any location, even under a mountain or on the Ocean floor. Again the big limiter is cost of energy.
Energy is behind everything and if you can achieve a cheap enough energy, then anything becomes possible.
magus678 8y ago
There are certainly options for some resources; that is one.
Asteroids do not solve every problem.
curiousthis 8y ago
No they don't, but there are other solutions to other problems.
Ovadox 8y ago
You don't know what you're talking about. Food is the biggest limiting factor, as you said. Those agricultural yields depend on fossil fuels to run tractors, irrigation, supply chains and manufacture fertilizers and your various -cides. The fuel supply has peaked in terms of petroleum. Gas and coal aren't too far behind. Furthermore, the remaining supplies are the most expensive and difficult to use. The American standard of living ensures that we use the stuff at fast rate so if everyone does magically get there, we'll just burn through the last of the fuel that much faster. This is usually where someone says that some vaporware energy technology will save us all, so I'll pause for now and let whoever have their turn to be wrong.
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Ovadox 8y ago
Hydrocarbon fuels that come from fossil sources have a high energy return on energy invested to extract and refine them. It would take energy to combine that CO2 and free H into fuel, therefore giving it a negative EROEI. What you're describing is technologically possible but not economically possible, outside a few niche applications.
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Ovadox 8y ago
As of 2011, the US produced 8.1% of it's total energy consumption via nuclear generation. All of that feeds the electric grid. Transportation accounted for 28% of the energy used that year. If you wanted to make hydrocarbon fuel from scratch using nuclear energy you would need to build about 3.5 times the number of all operating nuclear facilities in the US. Even if nuclear was as cheap as you say it is (it isn't), that many reactors will never be built, for political and economic reasons.
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Ovadox 8y ago
My original contention was that the number of people agriculture can feed is dependent on how much energy is available to do the work of growing food. All you've proven so far is that the US navy has figured out how to make some very expensive bunker fuel in the middle of the ocean. Nuclear is not a panacea. It can't provide energy cheaply enough or at a large enough scale to replace conventional fuels. Industrial civilization/ high material standard of living may be able to be sustained. World population may be able to be sustained. But not both at the same time - the resources are just not there to make it happen.
vandaalen 8y ago
What you should keep in the back of your head is the following:
That study was done by a neo-liberal think tank and it's sole purpose is to weaken the market for employees and lower wages in general, and for graduates from the STEM-field in specific.
There has been a neverending repetition of the myth of the "Fachkräftemangel" - a scarcity of qualified employees - for the last years here in Germany, which is complete and utter bullshit. We have more than enough qualified people here, but the problem is: Those aren't willing to work for the money companies are willing to offer them.
After the government under the leadership of chancelor Gerhard Schröder succeeded in installing what Schröder himself called "Europe's best low-wage labour market" at the World Economic Forum 2005 in Davos, via the "Agenda 2010", they are now targeting STEM-jobs.
They already tried before, when they introduced special visas for STEM-specialists from i.e. India, but blatantly failed, because no Indian who's willing to leave his country to work elsewhere would come to Germany, where he would be paid significantly less than in i.e. the UK.
They want to over-saturate the market to push people into the weaker negotioating position via more immigration and allowing asylum seekers to pick up work. If you look closely, they have already started with that in some places and it comes up in the news more often now, justified with reducing the costs for their stay here. That's some serious machiavellinism going on there.
l0ng_time_lurker 8y ago
"The upper class: keeps all of the money, pays none of the taxes. The middle class: pays all of the taxes, does all of the work. The poor are there...just to scare the shit out of the middle class." - George Carlin on the economic and social classes in America - also true for Germany and other parts of Europe with rampant mass immigration and lowering of standards
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[deleted] 8y ago
I have to say, that there is no long term solution to this problem, other than a complete rollback to marriage 1.0, which will never happen as long as woman have a voting right. Repealing women's suffrage completely would be the only long term solution. A couple decades ago, were woman had the same opportunities wise, the birthrate wasn't this low. After the state and the jobmarket started to pander to woman only, more woman than ever were getting university education. You know the story, it is the same in the US.
Men are devalued, because they aren't the only possible provider anymore. Woman earn even more than men in the under 30 demograpic. But my goverment still tries to push the same 77 cents to a dollar argument.
Men and boys are dehumanized in the education system, female behavior is the norm, boys being boys are treated like defective females.
Oh and German woman are shit, looks wise and mentally fucked up. Add this to what was stated in the OP.
tl;dr misandric family/divorce laws females get pandered to exclusively at any level of gouverment and in education fucked up females (either mentally or physically) men are feminised, due to lack of male spaces and male role models
[deleted] 8y ago
Long term solution to? Keeping our birth rates at an unsustainable level? We need to make sure birth rates stay high because? White people need to continue as a race when it's the filthy immigrants doing the work we won't do due to entitlement?
Subtletorious 8y ago
None of those issues or suggested policies will change the simple fact: couples don't need to have children.
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banned_1_time 8y ago
I'm already alive though. I don't care what happens after I die so why ruin my life to keep it going? evolution is now competing with rational thought.
Subtletorious 8y ago
Hard to ignore? The fact we are talking about entire nations that can't maintain their populations shows it is something which can be "ignored".
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[deleted] 8y ago
Sure, but regardless what you think, most single woman over 30 want kids desperately. Marriage without reproduction is kinda pointless. Women and men in Germany don't want children for completely different reasons aside form the burden of time, energy and money.
Subtletorious 8y ago
They want 1-2 kids. They don't, generally, want >2. Too much of the former leads to population decline.
frozen_strawberry 8y ago
and then there's the whole issue of even making it to two kids if you start having children when you're pushing 40. plus a lot of people look down on people who have more than two children because that makes them "asozial" because they're obviously undereducated and rely on welfare.
jacoblegend 8y ago
Repealing women's suffrage? That's some sharia law shit right there.
[deleted] 8y ago
Haha, so woman were oppressed before women's suffrage? These poor housewives, they had domnestic duties while the man was forced to provide everything. Back then this was a somewhat fair deal. Sharia law is actually highly gynocentric. Our press is accusing Arab countries of being misogynist, but the fact that 97% of execution victims in the Islamic state are male. How is this a misogynistic, not a misandrist society? Nobody accuses Arab woman of being homosexual, while Arab woman often accuse men of being gay, which often leads to execution. These woman have rights and privileges, but true female power always remains invisible.
Most Saudi Arabian woman don't want to be allowed to drive, because it would make the male driver (mostly a male family member) obsolete.
Tl;dr The sharia law comparison is bullshit, because it is made up, by people who don't understand it. It is this typical behaviour in our press, to say this country is bad, because they threat their woman (aka. the demigod) bad. Gues what the Arab media says about us and the way we treat our woman.
jacoblegend 8y ago
People who don't understand it? Have you ever lived in Saudi Arabia at all? Do you even speak Arabic my friend? Repealing women suffrage wont do jack shit or fix anything.
Defending this shit religious system is typical of uneducated. Reason why women over here don't want to drive? oh trust me these bitches don't even care about the driver at all it is rarely a family member who drives them around (always a third country foreigner), they go shopping with all day spending the husbands money in malls while leaving them waiting outside for hours and hours in the 110 heat while they shop their ass off. Yet something so simple in driving from point A to B is so damn repulsive to their beliefs and social status that they rather bring more Indians from across the globe just to drive their lazy ass around for 1000 riyal a month rather than do it themselves. You fail to see that once you give a woman a easy way out in the most simplest of things, she will abuse the shit of it for her own good regardless at whose expense.
Another reason they want to drive? Cause they are told to by the mutaween, yeah those fuckers that don't even have to graduate high school and go around bossing people because they got some bullshit degree in Islamic studies in a shitty Egyptian school. Before you start to school me on my own turf, come live in this country for a while and see for yourself how sharia law is fucking up the country and dosnt even come close to dealing with feminism that has taken over in your western countries.
Want to know why women aren't as executed as much as men? Because pussy pass still exists in this country, all she has to do is repent to the court and memorize/recite a few texts from the quran and boom shes home free. What you said for executions is true this mostly results of that marriages often when turned sour results in the women accusing the man of being gay and all the sudden this poor soul has to fight it off just so he wont lose his head.You are on point with executions but everything else is far off.
Also Arab media dosnt give a shit about western women, they're too busy shit talking on everyone else in the region on conspiracies on whos a Iranian puppet or how many bombs exploded today in yemen/iraq/syria/libya etc,etc. Oh and your press is just as shitty as ours, so don't believe a single word of what they say at all.
I love KSA with all my heart but bullshit here has so much BS holes in it that I could be here all day. end rant/
[deleted] 8y ago
Seriously, I am not advocating to make woman directly dependent on a man, whether traditionalism or feminism is the worse system, can't be said. Its female superiority versus female supremacy. My argument about females not wanting to drive, was that they are entitled to a male driver, because they are lazy slobs. Females should be forced to work for themselves. But giving woman the right to vote, was definetely a bad move. Wouldn't have thought that the pussy pass in the justice system is that bad in Saudi Arabia.
In the west we used to have a draft, if voting rights were linked to being drafted and being canon fodder at an equal or greater rate, woman wouldn't even want the right to vote. If power comes with responsibilities and drawbacks females won't be inclined to take it, especially if they have to suffer due to it.
TimeHoTraveler 8y ago
Sometimes I don't know if I am on the red pill or stormfront
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Polaris382 8y ago
They need some National Socialism again.
RedInIzzy 8y ago
Here in Israel we have this issue too.....despite being incredibly politically insensitive, it seems like most "liberal" (usually secular) people are loathe to admit that the Arabs simply could care less about peace and what higher morals we like to think we have. I get both sides. Someone has to lose because neither of us 100% can honestly say we will share. I just happen to support my own side BC logically it makes more sense to me. Do I understand why people that lost several wars and watched their neighbors claw their way to first world have anger? Sure! I'd be mad too if I lost.
As far as your country (Netherlands) goes, I see Wilders as potentially a good start. The push for normalization and integration is important.
As a Jew who immigrated to Israel, it seems that most of Europe didn't learn the lesson from the Holocaust. The lesson is simple: don't go chasing other people to kill them just because they're different.
Today's European rightwing is stuck. The left shame them for wanting to sustain the good times by having standards. The extreme right are mad and say the wrong things, alluding to the Nazi past.
It should be a simple matter of not killing immigrants or other ethnic groups residing there. It has nothing to do with needing open door immigration and lacking standards.
Sovs 8y ago
That comment is so jewish, that it's borderline anti-semitic.
oldredder 8y ago
Israel lives on stolen Arab lands - they don't care until you give back what was stolen.
It's that simple. The Natives in America feel the same but there are too few left to resist. They want to. They want to murder everyone putting them on Reservations and take back their land.
It is THEIR Land. They know it. We know it.
mrp3anut 8y ago
Read some history, Jews lived there before Arabs, then it was stolen by Rome and Arabs moved in, then we gave it back. Even without this, if you are too weak to defend what is "yours" then it is only yours until someone takes it from you.
oldredder 8y ago
I read the history - the Arabs were there first. The Jews left. You don't get to leave then thousands years later have descendants return and take it all. Not one Jew ever was there without Arabs already there.
You want to make it about strength and soon enough Arabs will have nukes and just erase the invaders at the cost of never having their home land back either. Push your luck and that's how it ends.
[deleted] 8y ago
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[deleted] 8y ago
Good trick they borrowed from 'Murica. Invade countries, and when people try to fight back, they're terrorists who need to be bombed. Ofcourse the guy bombing a country safely from his plane is a hero, and the guy sacrificing himself on the battlefield is a terrorist.
And when the war has ended, they make a fucking movie about how killing your people made their soldiers feel bad. Support the troops!
[deleted] 8y ago
You make a good point. I don't think many americans have the courage to think this tho. Not when the reason we get to be the good guys inherantly is because we are american.
snoo91 8y ago
There is nothing that pisses me off like Zionists and "Support the troops!"
When a person kills another person by his own will, he is a murderer. But when a person kills another "person" by the will of some businessman, he is a hero. FUCK THAT SHIT!
I am not Palestinian, but I support my Palestinian friends and go to rallies with them.
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whatgold 8y ago
This reminds me of quantitative easing in the United States. If 1 round of QE doesn't work, do some more!
I have a hard time believing people are legitimately this stupid. There is evil at work.
frys180 8y ago
People are incredibly stupid. Never underestimate them.
colucci 8y ago
Hot and cold.
Yes, the reason to not want kids is economically motivated. Yes, it is partly caused by women participating in the work force and having careers rather than staying home and having kids.
But if you keep going up the chain of causality, in the end you can blame the capitalist economic system which puts so much emphasis on output, money and work. It encourages women to go to work and make profit for their employer.
And we can keep going up and up. For example, we can the laws in America for giving birth to such a radical form of capitalism. So on and so on. I am no fan of modern feminism by any means. However, the problem won't be solved by blaming entities such as 'feminism' or 'capitalism'. The problem we are facing is goes beyond 'feminism'.
sonickid101 8y ago
Capitalism is not to blame neither Germany, or America are capitalistic systems anymore. They lost that moniker a long time ago. They are Crony-Capitalist, Corporatist, or Fascist systems. When you introduce socialist policies and tax's into a free market it is no longer capitalism. But Socialists and Communists will be the first ones to blame capitalism when they're failed policies start fucking shit up.
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bnine_ 8y ago
And yet they kick out all the skilled and educated people.
I'm white. Had to wait for 5 months for visa to study in the second german speaking country. After becoming M.Sc got literally kicked back to my place. Thanks. Good luck with all your schwarzerbeiters.
[deleted] 8y ago
Well, anyone that compares politicians' records to their words will have a very hard time believing #1, except in a tiny number of cases. However, I've noticed that most people default to believing #1 nonetheless.
Politicians want you to believe #1, and go to some lengths to create that appearance. Also, it's more comforting to believe that you're ruled over by an idiot (even though that arguably makes you an even bigger idiot) than by someone who's deliberately fucking you over and laughing about it.
hamstercide 8y ago
Quick! We need more 3rd world immigrants!
astrokidd 8y ago
This has nothing to do with TRP, first of all. Even American population is decreasing, if we take off the immigrants.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrA_9SoCitk
Riddick_ 8y ago
1 million "legal" immigrants per year in USA. Number one is Mexico, then China, Philippines, India etc.. Source: Home Land Security. See H-1B visa program also.
Nevermind all the "illegals" that cross your border, and a let in because... potential slave labour or eventually beef numbers for the prison system = all Big Corporate Profit paid with your taxpayers dollars.
NeoreactionSafe 8y ago
Germans must return to their traditions as have the Russians. (trying to)
What is needed is more focus on masculine ideals.
You think of Ludwig I who is central to Oktoberfest (Wiesn) and how his masculine nature was so closely linked to Monarchy. Nine kids, then sex with other bavarian women followed by that naughty Irish actress. That's a whole lot of Red Pill fertility !!!
Here's the problem...
You must equate:
.
Male Homosexuality ----> National Socialism (Ernst Rohm)
.
The traditionalists were and are still the Monarchists.
You need a Monarchy.
Observe Putin and imitate his actions because he is actually pointing in the right direction.
I'm half Austrian, but American and my other half goes back to the Founding Fathers, so my "Putin Love" is not based on racial association.
Any Right wing movement that gets too similiar to the Male Homosexual solution (kill rather than breed) will be no better than Feminism.
Men must breed, women must want to breed, and the political system that mirrors the traditional family is Monarchy.
I could use an upvote... thanks.
hores 8y ago
National Socialism in Germany had as much breeding as it had killing. You could also argue that Russia is closer to NatSoc than ever before.
MakeNoERROR 8y ago
Time to move to Germany and increase their population, IYKWIM.
NiceTryDisaster 8y ago
Sorry, but can someone tell me whats wrong with the birth rate plummeting? Doesnt it imply that theres more non-marital sex going around and no pressure to start a family..which is actually good for someone spinning plates isnt it?
chairmobile 8y ago
Do you understand anything at all about the way fiat currencies, inflation, economic growth, or social security policies work?
[deleted] 8y ago
The problem is that the economy is a pyramid scheme. They should probably fix that rather than encourage breeding. More people is rarely the solution to anything.
purplecabbage 8y ago
Can someone explain how feminism is at fault? And does this mean Japan has a similar issue since their population is in decline as well?
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Lord_Varys 8y ago
We will run into a Malthusian wall or a Keynesian one. All "advanced society" is built on the premise of growth. A growing younger population and a growing economy to sustain a smaller aging population through social programs.
What happens when you starve the beast?
squirtmasterd 8y ago
I think economic factors are more important than social ones. Single income families just aren't viable in today's working climate and children are too expensive. If salaries became less top heavy children would be viable for some couples because one parent could parent. Unfortunately the middle class has been decimated. Of course women working has meant labour is now massively dropped in value because the work force literally doubled. There is no solution to this.
PlanB_pedofile 8y ago
I don't get it why rich healthy economic and middle class countries tend to have less children than poor countries.
The childfree or two children is by choice while the poor are breeding 4 to 6 at a time.
This isn't just birth control and sex ed.
jsl2837 8y ago
Men and women who grow up under K-selected conditions are prone to consider carefully the consequences of having children they can't provide a good standard of living to. By "good", I don't mean just scraping by; I actually mean what you and I would incontrovertibly consider as "pretty damn comfortable". And being able to give the children individualized attention so they grow up with the right values. You can't achieve that and still enjoy life, if you have 5 children and a fulltime job.
In poor countries, there is little prospect for upward mobility through being educated, so quantity is stressed over quality. Instead of one or two children producing a large economic surplus through skill specialization (i.e. going to college and getting a degree), you have instead many children working jobs that do not require much education, and the money is pooled together to support a multigenerational family that lives under one roof. Because each child gets paid very little, the more children the better. This is what you see in countries like India, Bangladesh, or the Philippines. The parents are actually hedging on their children's lives being just as economically bleak as their own, because that's what they've grown accustomed to. It's not an irrational choice.
I know I sound confident about this but I'll gladly let someone from a country like that tell me I'm full of shit.
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CowardlyPetrov 8y ago
Yay! I wish my country would collapse faster.
herewehoagain 8y ago
I'm not a religious man, but I'm seeing more and more answers from the bible. Can't have a successful tribe with no members. Couple this with the economic documentary I recently watched which actually argues that a reduced population fucks us more than an increase because of production output loss, and you see that talented countries suffer.
Humans get too smart for our own good. Too many regulations and babies are no longer worth it. While 3rd world countries just bang away making more worthless humans.
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