I have nothing against masturbation. I am not a nofap dipshit or one of those types who claim not beating it gives you ultra super powers.
With that being said, masturbation in excess is not a good thing. Because you are simply chasing after a cheap thrill and not being productive, and in excess, like any other cheap thrill, you have to do it more and more to get diminishing results.
Mental masturbation is no different. You're wasting your time. You are seeking out cheap thrills that provide no tangible long term benefits.
There are several communities out there in the manosphere that put on a "red pilled" facade that actually further blue bill and feminize men with mental masturbation being the central element. MGTOW and WhereAreAllTheGoodMen are two great examples.
MGTOW, a lot has been said about it here on TRP so I won't rehash the usual reasons why its garbage. On the surface, MGTOW seems to be a community full of successful, high SMV, shredded Chads who don't believe in marriage. Instead, the community is actually a bunch of low SMV, fat or skinny fat voluntary celibates who high five each other over the fact they don't have sex instead of lament the fact, like incels do. Take 50 men from the MGTOW community and I guarantee you it would look far closer to a dungeons & dragons or Magic: The Gathering convention than a lineup of GQ magazine models.
QUOTES YOU WILL NEVER HEAR FROM SUCCESSFUL, ABOVE AVERAGE SMV MEN
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"Yeah, I have high SMV, am shredded with great muscle definition, and could totally go out and bang 6 women this weekend, but instead, I'm going my own way, you see"
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"I banged 3 girls this past week, but I just think its stupid. I'm going to go my own way"
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"Sex is dumb. Go your own way instead"
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"This hot girl is all over my nuts, and I have another hot girl in the pipeline as well. But I think going my own way is a better idea"
- "I have a successful sex life right now and instead I just think I am going to go my own way"
MGTOW is poison because the concept revolves around a man staking his identity in the fact that he doesn't bother with women. Again, the MGTOW apologist will claim that its simply about not marrying and focusing on "muh mission", but that's bullshit. Read their community. Most if not all of these guys were never successful with women and treat women like a 6 year old boy at the playground who think all girls have cooties. It's mental masturbation in the sense that the man thinks he is further elevated and enlightened and therefore superior because he avoids women. And "muh mission" is the new blue pilled garbage codeword for "avoid women and don't have sex".
The MGTOW movement is the female equivalent to the butch lesbian/transgender male. Have you ever met a butch lesbian or female-to-male transgender who was an attractive women before making the switch? Nope. They were already ugly and gross. So them going butch lesbian/female-to-male transgender is their way of exiting the beauty arms race and rationalizing the fact they were undesirable. It makes them feel better about the fact no man wanted them and by doing this they can claim they were never interested in guys in the first place.
MGTOW REALITY: 99% of MGTOW men are not and never were successful with women. They simply use MGTOW as a pre-emptive rejection buffer because they are actually low SMV undesirable losers who don't want to put in the effort to bang women, and instead take a route that allows them to hamster away their failures. "I could totally bang 12 girls this week, but I choose MGTOW!"
WhereAreAllTheGoodMen is a growing community on reddit that is an offshoot of MGTOW. The entire subreddit consists of making fun of women who have hit the wall and yet still are holding onto standards. Being red pilled about female nature is literally red pill 101. It's what you do at the beginning. Continuing to mentally masturbate over it after you understand and grasp the truth is feminizing bullshit and gets you nowhere. It's like playing a video game and staying on the tutorial level and never advancing past it. The issue with WhereAreAllTheGoodMen is that they align themselves with MGTOW and instead of using their understanding and grasp of the true female nature to their advantage, they simply "GO THEIR OWN WAY, BRO!" and voluntarily choose not to engage with women and voluntarily choose to be celibate. It's as if they have an instruction manual to success with women and instead throw it in the dumpster.
What good does poking fun at women's tinder profiles, relationship advice questions and facebook posts about their dating failures do for you as a red pilled man? The only use is to introduce men to the red pill and the realities of female nature. But once you are made aware of that(it shouldn't take too long), what use does it continue to have?
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mbu98 5y ago
real mgtow doesn't say to every single person on earth that he is mgtow. 99% of them are fake.
weag5l 5y ago
LOL your evidence for this is what, exactly?
ProofPear6 5y ago
MGTOW: "You can't fire me! I quit!"
monsieurhire2 5y ago
MGTOW can mean whatever you want it to mean.
For some guys, it's an incel pact.
For me, it was always about the following:
Not settling for a shit relationship with a shit or mediocre woman;
Not being pussy-whipped if in a relationship;
Not letting female values dominate my life;
Not pandering to women;
Not making a fool out of myself, contorting myself every which way to try and make myself more attractive to a woman;
Not chasing after women;
Not romanticizing women or relationships;
Studying what goes on in the world, and learning; figuring out how to live and what makes life meaningful;
Figuring out how to find women whose company I enjoy aside from the chemistry element;
Not rewarding shallow, but attractive women with validation they don't deserve in the form of attention; once I find out that there is little to nothing on the inside, I move on;
[deleted] 5y ago
Just to warn you mate this post will be very long. But here are my thoughts from being MGTOW for over a year and why I am throwing in the towel today (from the subreddit only)
It started from a community of men who were developing their identity away from women. Away from the influence of gynocentric society. Away from ones own simping tendencies of their biological imperative. And those core values are what one should take away from MGTOW. But like anything that develops a community, over time you get a bastardised version of it.
Men need a place to vent about women. Vent about the world. More importantly, men need brotherhood. The MGTOW subreddit was this entirely in the beginning. Over time though the subreddit has derived into 'Every man for himself' and an echo chamber to encourage a mantra that only seeks to spite one's own biological imperative.
And here's the thing. I am successful and I do have reasonable SMV to get female attention. And I worked blood and sweat into that. I think on the surface there are men that are MGTOW who have this. I've met a fellow MGTOW in London successful who worked for an MP. But you're right, now we have the nasty bastards. The men who are utterly miserable with themselves. And whilst I don't like the term Incel, I would say it has become an echo chamber to high five those that stay on the monk mode path and shame any man that interacts with a woman.
Shocked to see a lot of guys on there who are liberal. Shocked to see a lot of guys have never actually been with a woman. In my eyes, if you haven't been through the fire and flames with women, you lack the ability to talk from experience.
Perhaps now. It never used to be like this. But we had a huge influx of guys come over from the incels when it got banned. Still what I feel The Red Pill lacks is the ability to focus away from one's biological imperative. And that's what I sought with MGTOW. But the community is always going to be a bastardised version just like even The Red Pill has its share of men simping for women and pedestalising them. Because when you get laid you get over it being your entire world. And yet we have men who shame other men for not making their entire focus having sex with women.
​
That's a cope. Just like red pill guys shaming men for being 'incel'. It's the same cope. Because men who actually have sex don't need to make it their entire world. When I went 'MGTOW' I was in an detrimental relationship with a feminist. It wasn't ever about the cope. It was about being tired of female nature. Needing to reset. Needing to stop being so focused on women. And yes we'll talk in a second why MGTOW doesn't actually stop that focus.
Red Pill calls that monk mode. For me, it was necessary to get away from sexual strategy altogether. To focus on my finances. To focus on my identity. And having an feminist girlfriend is enough to deter any man away from women.
Let me tell you what my mate whose a former MGTOW. Yes that London guy, said. MGTOW are just a bunch of menimists still hooked on and salty about women.
For me, it was built on the ideals and foundation of what is essentially a brotherhood. And what we have is a bastardised version of it. And outliers that are MGTOW in name only. A mantra circle jerk of men spiting their own biological imperatives to hold out from sex for as long as possible. With women as the enemy at the core.
Here's the thing and I'm going to bold this because I want anyone to take this away from what I'm saying: Women are not the problem. They are the symptom. Men are the ones who've enabled women. Thot enabling men are the reason women have so many fucking rights to even land you in jail in the first place. Those men are the problem. The men that didn't keep the pimp hand strong.
Women are like children. They act the way they do because men have pandered to them. Just look at white knights. A woman hits you on the street and you hit her back. Whose the real threat? The group of white knights who take you down for doing so.
Women crying rape is only a danger because the system allows it to happen. A system that men could easily overthrow if they got their shit together. Instead they pander to women and allow women in places of authority where they can do some real damage.
AWALT. But a blanket statement of All women are kunts is just as idiotic as a liberal saying all men are toxic. AWALT i like to think female nature is capable of it. But it doesn't mean that every woman is going to destroy your life. Capable absolutely. MGTOW's prevention better than cure is just spiting one's biological imperative though. Why take the chance? Well you could be hit by a bus tomorrow. You could be Emilano Sala. Life is a risk. It was built on risk.
And therein lies the rub. Why do you think The Red Pill is quarantined and MGTOW subreddit is still online and thriving? Because it fits perfectly with the narrative. They don't want white males to populate. Take it from someone who works in media and has to deal with these SJW feminists and their overlords. They don't see MGTOW as a threat. Yet they see The Red Pill as a threat, quarantine it and deem it toxic masculinity.
This is where we derive. Because I will say to you. Being successful with women is not the 'be all end all' it's only fulfilling one's biological imperative. Judging a guy for being low SMV is just a way to pedestalise women further. It's playing the game on women's terms when in reality it's men who should be playing on their own terms. High SMV shouldn't be a man's main mission. However, absolutely right that MGTOW has been bastardised into a version where its a cope for rejection and anger.
And in this society with feminism rampant it's just another symptom. A whole generation of men grown up with soyboy fathers or solely single mothers. A recipe for disaster.
I stuck around MGTOW subreddit for brotherhood and the latest iteration weren't interested in that. It's 'every man for themselves' mentality. They shit on other MGTOWs just as much as they shit on women. It's just a sub filled with pure hatred. and it gets you like that. It fills you with pure hatred too. And I've been guilty of that. The mentality that all women are horrible bastards. I realise that the stories shared are media sensationalism. It doesn't represent the entire demographic of women. Are all women capable of that behaviour. Absolutely. Your mileage may vary.
That cope though that you speak of. It's a way for men to give up caring about fulfilling one's biological imperative. Try NoFap and you'll find that biological imperative screaming at you. It's in a man's DNA to spread his seed. It's his masculine imperative. But in this society it cannot be our sole focus for men are capable of greater things than just pedestalising pussy.
What happens for me after MGTOW?
An happy medium of both. A wise man once told me that it lies somewhere within the middle of Red Pill and MGTOW. I've never really shunned women in real life away. I've dealt with a lot of kunty women. But I won't judge a woman based on AWALT nature. I will give her the benefit of the doubt until she proves otherwise. Hell, I have female clients that have been superb. I know some amazingly selfless women. It really does contradict what MGTOW would have you think. Are women capable of everything MGTOW warns you about? Absolutely. But why spite your own biological imperative to 'go your own way' When you can do both? and I mean your own journey away from women. You don't have to be married and committed.
It will take some time to devolve away from the extreme counterparts of MGTOW philosophy. But I certainly won't go down with the ship. A ship BTW that has no brotherhood mentality. That has no loyalty. Just every man for himself scattering around the ship screaming "BECAREFUL!!" Sink or Swim, I say.
Meanwhile I long for a community within the manosphere with a strong brotherhood aspect. Something with a happy medium and a band of brothers who are killing it in life with loyalty in their hearts.
​
TheRoad15 5y ago
I went over to MGTOW and saw that it's basically a place to post feminist meme's. They have a MGTOW2 now where there is some decent discussion. There's even a thread called "What is MGTOW," that has some great discussion in the comments.
After reading that, I basically see a Venn Diagram. On one side you have MGTOW, the large circle representing the majority of guys employing the defensive tactics to protect themselves. On the TRP side, the large circle is "I want to learn game to fuck chicks" (the majority of guys fall in this category). Where TRP has a focus on game to learn about psychology of women and using it to our advantage... MGTOW has discussion of defensive mechanisms which does include ignoring/avoiding women at times. This does overlap a little with TRP in the sense that we don't give unnecessary time to women that don't deserve it.
Then you have the overlapping section in the middle. This is where you get the MGTOW guys that don't mind fucking chicks and are looking to have a fun life. They live the way they want. This is very much like TRP where only a select few actually get it. They focus on the mission or whatever fun hobbies or friends they enjoy. Women come and go and everyone just does as they please. MGTOW folks seem to employ more defensive strategies and caution with approach to women or are turned off, and TRP use game strategy to escalate things quicker to the bedroom. Subtle differences in my opinion.
[deleted] 5y ago
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[deleted] 5y ago
Actually. I'm beginning to think the system relies on men to go their own way. The system wants segregation. Why aren't the media bothered about MGTOW? Why is the subreddit quarantined and yet MGTOW thrives? The men who sacrifice themselves are for the horror stories. The marketing that makes one not want to be willing to take the risk. Feminism teaches women to go their own way effectively, with their cats and their 'sisterhood'. And they are utterly miserable. Men are also utterly miserable if they don't fulfill their biological imperative. No, it has to be a happy medium of both. Either way it doesn't matter what the system wants, take the core concepts of MGTOW just don't commit to women.
PS2Errol 5y ago
MGTOW is not about not 'banging' women. The idea is never to commit or marry. You can bang as many as you like, but you go your own way. Take it or leave it.
Majority of MGTOW have been married or seriously burned by women in the past. It's why they take the line that they do. They've learned the hard way.
Tombert_Williams 5y ago
I took a look at the WAATGM subreddit just this week because someone had recommended it as a good place for red pill philosophy. It is pathetic. It is pretty much everything the critics of TRP say about TRP minus the good stuff. All of the bile, none of the self-improvement or owning your own shit.
​
SirKolbath 5y ago
Actually, you didn’t “take a look at” the subreddit. You were there less than 45 minutes before you violated the rules and were banned. Then you spent the weekend sending insulting messages to the mods accusing them of incelibacy and other sweet phrases. As one of the mods there, I have several screenshots of your blue pill whining when you were kicked out.
Probably best if you stayed in your own lane from here on out, son.
Tombert_Williams 5y ago
As I said to you there, you mistook me for someone else. You seemed to be under the erroneous impression that I was having some ongoing debate with you before you banned me; that was my first message; and I didn’t spend the weekend calling you or anyone jackshit, other than to post this comment here where you couldn’t delete it. That must have been someone else, assuming you’re not just making it up. But I don’t doubt that you frequently get called an incel.
You were apparently having an ongoing dialogue with someone else whose comments you kept deleting because he was getting “political”. That person was only responding to a long series of harshly political comments by you and others. I interjected for the one and only time to say nothing more than “seems like it’s already political. Your enforcement is selective.” That is the sum total of what I said. For that comment, you insta-banned me.
You also deleted the comment so no one could see what I said, so the reader might (erroneously) imagine that I really crossed a line. Having removed my modest comment and prevented me from responding, you then give some loud mouth tough guy reply. You’re a complete chickenshit,hiding behind your mod status there, afraid to have a fair exchange.
subgamer90 5y ago
Seems like you just can't fathom the idea that a man can actually choose not to chase after women and focus on other things in life instead. You're just projecting your own thirst onto others. The funny thing about "red pillers" is that they say not to put a woman on a pedestal but don't realize that they put pussy in general on a giant pedestal.
If you focus on chasing pussy as the primary goal in life, if everything you do is geared towards making you more attractive to women, or if you still think there's a "unicorn" out there for you that you will marry one day and she'll be different from other girls cuz she's "Eastern European" or something, you are blue pilled to the core.
TruthSeekingPerson 5y ago
The only rule of MGTOW is to never commit to a woman. That's perfectly consistent with The Red Pill.
If you feel threatened by the MGTOW going monk mode maybe you should ask yourself why you care. Is it because you're caught up in female validation and need to prove yourself better than other guys? Quite frankly that's what women try and do. Is it because you are beginning to see how empty it is spending time with vapid hoes? Maybe you're trying to rationalize something that doesn't fulfill you any more.
Next time you try and articulate the reasons for PUA/TRP you'd make a better case if you avoided shame-based arguments. The desire for celibacy/limited partners is correlated to intelligence and introversion. Which incidentally lowers a guy's SMV because women want dumb impulsive guys they can manipulate. But really we're splitting hairs here as long as none of us are trying to marry any of these idiots.
EumenesOfEfa 5y ago
You put more thought and wisdom into your reply than OP put into his post.
SomaNoob 5y ago
Ya I could also say I bang girls and don't commit to then and that I went monk mode but it's not even true.
All I can say: take what you need from all the losers around here, never come back to discuss anything. Be aware of everything, and do what you want. That's the real MGTOW for me. It's just about freedom lol.
Imperator_Red 5y ago
MGTOW is not about avoiding commitment. If it were then it would be exactly the same as red pill. MGTOW is about avoiding all contact with women.
kagetsuki32 5y ago
Mgtow is not a movement, mgtow is a man following his OWN path. If his path involve banging women and disappearing, then it is his path.
PS2Errol 5y ago
This is just flat out wrong. You essentially know nothing.
The whole point of MGTOW is that men can do what they like - but mostly avoiding actually committing or marriage. It keeps women at emotional arms length. You can sleep with as many as you like, but nothing gets past the emotional, financial and defensive wall.
TruthSeekingPerson 5y ago
Also, TRP to me is just seeing female nature for what it is. MGTOW is a sub-branch of TRP as PUA are. You can be a PUA for shits and grins and be a MGTOW if you don't need the female validation. But you can tell most PUA really derive self-esteem from banging chicks. If you're doing that you're not GYOW.
TruthSeekingPerson 5y ago
There are no rules for MGTOW except you can't really go your own way if you're in a committed relationship. It's really not about avoiding women. Sandman, for example, has considered looking for a relationship where he could live separately. I believe he said one of the original MGTOWs (Barbosa?) now is in such a relationship. There certainly is no prohibition against banging women. The key though is you have to be indifferent to it. You can't be using sex for personal validation.
I don't know where you get the idea that all MGTOW have to be in full blown monk mode but it's not the truth. I do think more and more men are going monk mode as they start to see modern women for what they are but it's not a requirement. To me the key is to MGTOW is to leave the matrix where you have to live with a woman to be a person. Women ain't shit but hoes and tricks.
Howdoiusesync 5y ago
Since you seem to have valuable knowledge on MGTOW, what is so wrong with going Monk Mode? Personally for me it's like a staircase, to adjust get better at the things I love and want to make money from (Increase SMV really) then eat the fruit and then adjust again. I'm justr lost on how so many people think monk mode is really bad when even reading about it just seems more positive than anything.
TruthSeekingPerson 5y ago
I'm full blown monk mode and am hoping to stay that way forever. There are various reasons for that including my highly introverted temperament as well as my upbringing in a highly dysfunctional family. I'm drawn to covert narcissist women and they're absolutely toxic.
If you go monk mode you will improve yourself and your SMV so if it's temporary that can be a good thing. The problem with doing that is that you can get hooked on a woman and lose yourself all over again. It's like Lucy pulling the ball away from Charlie Brown over and over again. When you're banging them they're manipulating you.
I used to encourage people to go monk mode to build themselves up and increase their SMV. That's frowned upon by most of the youtubers I think because it still means you're seeking female validation. The biggest mistake a man can make is to get a case of oneitis, to think he found a unicorn, his soulmate, and then he proceeds to lose his rationality when it comes to dealing with this person.
My theory now is that you can only really date if you're indifferent to female approval. If you aren't prepared to walk away at any point you're blue pill and you'll likely end up paying.
The exception to this is if you want kids. I have no idea how you negotiate that with a modern woman. I guess if you have enough money you might be able to.
If you're interested Sandman has a lot of great videos on MGTOW. I get the rule about cohabitation from him. He also is going monk mode because when he's jumped back into dating after taking the red pill he ended up getting blue pilled all over again. I believe last he said he's interested in a relationship where they live separately and only see each other a couple times a week. I personally don't see how that's worth the effort and investment but I'm wired differently than most people.
randomTATRP 5y ago
that's why you practice TRP and relationship with women, so this doesn't happen.
again, this is why you practice spinning plates, then trying relationships so you can have children one day.
TruthSeekingPerson 5y ago
You do need to practice but you can be the best version of yourself that you can be and still get divorce raped and have your kids taken from you when your wife gets bored or gets a chance with a higher status male.
[deleted] 5y ago
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burnyr 5y ago
Look at all these dudes trying to claim not fucking women is the true red pilled way lol. Why don't you go ahead and castrate yourself bros, that way you for sure will never be distracted by dem femoids. Just accept we're all lazy shits who dont wanna leave our confort zone and put in the work.
GlobalAsshat 5y ago
Women just plain turn me off after realizing their true nature. That's why I'm semi-MGTOW. Now that I know how they actually think, what they'll do when they think nobody is judging them, how they live double lives and pretend to be something they're not, it's hard to even want to talk to them much less fuck them.
For me women are a tertiary aspect of my life before diet, hobbies, and other goals.
Petrus_ 5y ago
Imo there's a difference between what you're describing and actual MGTOW. Incels in denial seems to be what you're describing. MGTOW is just not putting up with female BS or committing to a woman.
passepar2t 5y ago
Hahah, do you not see the irony of what you posted and where you posted it?
chicagorunner10 5y ago
The funny this is, your first two paragraphs indicate the need for balance: "I am not a nofap dipshit"... and: "With that being said, masturbation in excess is not a good thing"
So balance is definitely an important concept here, but then the rest of your argument seems to rely on the presumption that guys who read and contribute to MGTOW are totally obsessed with it, and basically their whole lives revolve around the association of MGTOW.
I can see how it might appear that way on the surface, and it might be true for some small percentage of guys on there, but speaking for myself, I read it, use it as one point of view, take it as an interesting perspective. For everything I read, I decide for myself whether it's something I agree with or not.
So the point here is to, one: have balance in your life, and two: be a free-thinking person, where you can read something and decide for yourself weather it pertains to you and you incorporate it as part of your "world view".
Imperator_Red 5y ago
Look at all the butt-hurt MGTOWs downvoting. I used to respect their choice but then I realized everything that is outlined in this post. They are NOT high SMV men that opted out of the game, because there is no such thing as a high SMV man that retires his cock in his prime. There just isn't.
Once you realize that they are dishonest, they fall below Incels on your respect hierarchy. Incels at least admit the truth.
Edit: Just to head this stupid response off before any
MGTOWsdishonest Incels chime in: MGTOW is not merely about steering clear of commitments. It is about retiring your cock and avoiding women period. If it was just about avoiding commitment then it would be called red pill.SirKolbath 5y ago
Personally, I deleted tinder because it was so easy it was becoming a distraction. Your accusation is only accurate when applied to men who judge their entire worth as a man by their notch count.
Your perception is warped.
Who are you to define what MGTOW is? It’s whatever the user wants to make it. Literally no one uses this definition but you.
Normally I respect the shit out of you, Imperator, but I cannot agree with anything in this comment.
jkarovskaya 5y ago
I did just that after a divorce when I was 29 years old. 6-2, runner & mountain biker, in good shape, probably 7/10, heavy IT career, own a house, had plenty of offers, not interested.
Mefic_vest 5y ago
Yes, there is.
They're the smart ones, that don’t want to be hit with a #metoo false accusation that they cannot defend against (you cannot prove a negative).
Or be considered by the court as a common-law spouse, with all the divorce-rape that can ensure (as can happen in BC, Canada; even one too many nights sleeping over can have you branded as being in a common-law marriage, and therefore provide her access to a 50% cut of your wealth).
Or to have your condom fail unknowingly, and then be held responsible for a child you never wanted.
Or worse yet, in Germany or France, be held responsible for a child that isn’t even yours (because paternity testing is illegal unless the court itself finds a compelling reason to request it… you cannot).
Simply said, in today’s societal and legal framework, there are hundreds of reasons for a smart and intelligent man, regardless of his SMV, to avoid women.
It’s the stupid, ignorant and downright pussy-slaved men who won’t even run the math on such a risk-assessment analysis. You know what those men are called? Blue pills. You see them all over the place, chasing after pussy regardless of how it can and will (if given the chance) destroy their lives.
The juice is just no longer worth the squeeze, and hasn’t been worth it for quite some time now. All red pill paths lead to MGTOW. There is no other logical destination.
Imperator_Red 5y ago
Theoretically possible.... but we all know the reality is that 99% of MGTOW are incel.
Mefic_vest 5y ago
And MGTOW calls TRP for what they are: pussy-hungry blue pills masquerading red pills. Which the vast majority of TRP readers actually are: their hunger for pussy at any and all cost makes them blue-pills through-and-through. All they do is use the script to get more of what they want: the blue-pill dream of putting pussy on a pedestal and worshipping it.
We can go round and round with the name-calling all we want. All that it does is sow divisive anger and make the job of the feminist supremacists all that easier: to divide and conquer us, lead the less converted of us back to the gynocentric plantation, and to reduce the effectiveness of the red pill message. Do you really want that? Is the TRP gatekeeping so important that it is worth alienating the majority of red-pill converts who could easily take other paths to knowledge and inner peace?
Most MGTOW don’t shit on TRP for that very reason: we have seen plenty of top TRP people come over to our side once they truly examine and understand the risks that are out there. On the other hand, if TRP is your path, as long as you are truly on the red pill the more power to you. MGTOW might poke fun at TRP as being dishonest pussy-chasing blue-pillers, but in the end we are all heading in a similar direction: away from the sharp hooks of female and societal approval, to forge our own destinies on our own terms.
Isn’t that enough of a bridge between us? Or do you demand hate for hate’s sake?
Imperator_Red 5y ago
So if you were sitting alone in a bar, and a beautiful woman walked up to you, sat down and chatted you up, you would just ignore her? What if she asked you to come back to her apartment? You'd decline? I'm really interested to hear your response.
Mefic_vest 5y ago
I wouldn’t be alone in a bar in the first place. It holds no attraction for me by myself. If I am in there, it is for a purpose such as hanging out with friends who are there to socialize. At which point,
She would be directly interrupting the socialization I would be having with my friends. My own time is actually quite valuable; not only do I work with a very large software company, but I also have quite a number of personal projects on the go. As such, when I actually have the time to head out with friends, I head out to be with my friends.
But, let’s put that to one side for a sec, in the interest of conforming to your narrative.
My first response would be one of significant suspicion. Why? Because of several factors. I am just shy of 2m tall, so there is that. Despite my age, I am still built like a linebacker, with the classic V-shaped torso and heavy musculature; I can rock an Italian suit like few others can. Serious soccer-mom catnip there, as many of my friends have commented in the past. Finally, a surprising number of people know me through my late (deceased) wife, who was quite the social butterfly (I am quite the loner). They will most likely know that I am quite decently fucking loaded. I could die tomorrow and still leave six-figure inheritances to each and every one of my family and in-laws.
As such, my first gut reaction will not be “is she attracted to me because of me?” , but rather, “what does she want, and how the hell do I get myself out of this entanglement without being overly rude?”.
Let me explain.
About two years after I was widowed in 2006, I tried to re-enter the dating scene. I have made several posts alluding to this, and I wish I could link to them here (TRP censors comments that link to other parts of Reddit), but the basic gist is: I dated at least 200 women (if not more) over a good half-plus decade (heavily when I started, trailing off quite a bit at the end), and what I found in “modern women” led me to MGTOW without ever knowing about that philosophy until I hit Reddit a number of years later. Lots of important details omitted in this paragraph, but simply said it wasn’t for lack of trying. And I had plenty of offers, and no small numbers of women quite literally throwing themselves at me (and they still do… in late November it was a waitress leaving her number on the back of a receipt during a business lunch).
So,
Fuck yes, I would most certainly decline. No matter how smoking hot she is (and probably even in direct relationship to her hotness). I have absolutely ZERO clue as to her intentions, whether they are what they appear or if they are more nefarious. Anything could go wrong. Some, in the past (with my post-widowhood dates), have attempted to go intentionally wrong because they knew quite a bit about me and had covert intentions I would have never agreed to. I know (through the grapevine) that at least two tried to baby-trap me.
Once bitten, twice shy and all that jazz.
Plus, I most definitely would never jump into bed with her without at least a half-dozen (or more) entirely platonic dates under my belt, so that I can suss out her general public mask (and hopefully some clues as to her true personality). The primary rule of “don’t stick your dick in crazy” is a very valuable one to follow, and I want to rule out any craziness. Crazy can’t hide forever, and I have found that it typically only holds its cover for about 3-8 dates (or about 4-6 months) before starting to get antsy and desperate. Playing the “traditional and chaste marriage-oriented man” made a surprising number of dates slip up and show their true colours after a surprisingly short time.
Does this answer your question?
TheRedPike 5y ago
This is not true. Don't hotlink anywhere on reddit, including out own subs. Put the link through http://archive.is/ first.
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Sac_fo_dayz 5y ago
As a fit, well-employed man with no issues talking to women who also plays Magic: The Gathering as a hobby on the weekends you gave me one helluva laugh sir. Thank you.
MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 5y ago
A bit of Schadenfreude never stops being fun, but aside from a big dose during the unplugging process, it's useful as an occasional mind snack but too much is like consuming mostly mental Doritos as a staple.
The main problem with an overdose of "Where have all the good men gone" material is, it's consumerism, not active thinking. Indulging in it is passive, makes no mental demands of the consumer, and leaves them knowing little useful information or ideas that they didn't have before consuming it.
Balance it with challenging, useful, and productive mental pursuits.
DeadliftRx 5y ago
Are you really dick measuring against MGTOW?
They don't give a fuck. You are a crying child in their eyes.
tchower 5y ago
Yeah it’s interesting to me that on the red pill it’s all about being the 20% because woman want to be with the 20%, yet the red pill also contains these blue pill posts at times that are the mentality of the 80%.
The 80% are the ones out chasing pussy and wasting their time trying to validate themselves through a relationship or a girlfriend, trying to get married, and believing all the magic and idealism of woman this guy just posted, that woman are somehow the holy grail of male validation and success in life. That to me is feminine and blue pilled, as opposed to focusing on yourself and your mission and letting the bitches be a by-product rather than the “core” of your existence.
You can be at the intelligence level of beavis and Butt Head and still smash pussy, I kid you not on this one.
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RedwallAllratuRatbar 5y ago
I lost my libido. I could do TRT, but I enjoy the hell out of not caring about women. I still can get in love - but I won't give any positive bias for her boring or demanding personality just because I want to get laid
So I'm a MGTOW, right?
DeadliftRx 5y ago
I'm roided up and my dick still won't get hard for that life-destroying disease called "women and relationshits." Pay your prostitutes to leave.
oooKenshiooo 5y ago
Men Going Their Own Way is redundant exercise in redundance.
It is like saying you are a bycicle riding cyclist.
Men should ALWAYS go their own way. Regardless of wether they see women or not.
SomaNoob 5y ago
This is part of the OP's point. Mental masturbation.
For some guys it works anyways, so it's still MTGOW. It's all about doing whatever you want.
centaursg 5y ago
MGTOW is a depressing place according to me. What I took from TRP is to better myself, learnt about game , female imperative and how to keep frame etc. I understand that things dont go as planned most of the times in relationships, LTR and marriage. So does other aspects of life. Business doesnt go as you had hoped, your college education doesnt go as planned etc. You rarely get the results you desired in the time you desired in the form you desired. Men going there own way for what? cuz women are piece of S#it? cuz legal troubles when things go south? Fine, be safe, may be stay in your parents basement. But if you venture out, spin plates, get into a LTR and have kids, you get to see and feel the other side. Though you dont need this for survival, but this does add color to your life even a little bit. I`m highly career oriented and I dream of starting and growing tech business. I want to have the option of leaving the business, the knowledge to my kids. They may not like it but I do want to leave a legacy behind for my family. Approach life with the mindset of a king. Be philosophical and be the superior man.
platoonpluto 5y ago
I think it’s better to take what you need from all the Male orientated subreddits in order to improve yourself. Treating these places like a cult/religion will be bad for you regardless of which one you choose.
mental_models 5y ago
Unless you are profiting off them in such a fashion.
daniellederek 5y ago
I dunno. Successful people rarely brag and are humble for the most part. Don't confuse that for lack of ego.
Richest man in America. He could buy any car company in the world. Have any insane custom vehicle fabricated for him in 6 weeks.... what does he drive? A 10 yr old sedan no one would even consider to be a true luxury car any more.
Having a high smv and having live goals outside of spinning 14 plates is not something to look down on. Most men want an equal. And if unavailable will accept someone who has the potential and mindset to be that equal or provide healthy offspring.
Yes there's the MGTOW monk mode shun all women in business and personal life.
Theres the Acquire fuck you money then maybe come back in mid 40s to show that former high school stacy what's what by rejecting her for her just out of college daughter.
Most older mgtow are open to a sensible unicorn. A women debt free. Whose kids have become self sufficient with a career and looking for an actual 5 or 10 year friend that does things and fucks a night or 2 a week but are not going to fall into the marriage trap.
The young guys. They are wise. They saw what happened to their buddy who knocked a girl up before 20. No prospect for the money to get skills training. What income they get is clawed away by state social services to fund the bitch to go out and secure the next 2 baby daddies. She likely strips for cash 4 nights a week while grandma watches the kiddos.
Those young guys have the eyes on the prize and aren't fucking around on campus any more either.
What would really level the field is if some biochemist out there came up with a natural spermicide lube that didn't stink and didn't sting and lasted 18 hours. Feminists would lose their shit if that ever went to market for $10/tube. Dab it on your dick and no spermjacking tonight ms thang.
[deleted] 5y ago
I joined TRP and MGTOW after stumbling on to them, looking for a way to deal with another shitty ex gf. I didn't stay long in MGTOW after I realised they literally just hate women, and only post shitty things about them the whole time. The last straw for me was when they posted that video of a 12 year old girl getting knocked out by a giant adult man... They fucking loved it!!! They took delight in it... that was when I realised that it really does feel like a place of emotionally retarded incels, even though when I first joined I defended them against people who called them exactly that. Guess I was wrong!! TRP opened my eyes to true female nature, and I thought MGTOW was going to help me guide me to a new place. It didn't, but only left me bitter and angry at all women. I'm now over that angry phase but still enjoy a healthy dose of TRP to keep my eyes open.
GlobalAsshat 5y ago
MGTOW2 is less busy and not so full of hateful incels.
homingdove 5y ago
Brought to you by some irrelevant cunt on Reddit trying to sell people brains.
MrGreySD 5y ago
It's always good to be self-aware: stopping yourself when you're wasting too much time in a state of mental masturbation. But I generally disagree with your take on things here.
I am sure a lot of MGTOW people are using it as a mental buffer to avoid discomfort and growth. But banging girls is just another form of short-term pleasure. MGTOWs aren't wrong with what they say. Once you get enough women, they lose their appeal, and more meaningful activities replace them. Such as building your business or improving a skill/hobby. Building yourself up also makes it easier to get women.
There's too much binary thinking. Some MGTOW is a good thing. Some chasing women is a good thing.
[deleted] 5y ago
Some real Truth serum right here.
Rejection buffers in any form either introverted or extroverted are poison.
She doesnt want you, fuck it. 3 Billion other pussies in the world to plunder.
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Hoozuki_Suigetsu 5y ago
shit, i need a glosary to understand this post
kevin32 5y ago
That's one of its purposes. WhereAreAllTheGoodMen was created to help blue-pilled but otherwise decent men to guard their commitment and resources from single moms, post-wallers and THOTs after they've dated jerks and rode the carousel. It's wasn't meant for men to avoid all women, just mostly the low-value ones who are looking for a wallet in exchange for starfish sex.
WAATGM also helps red-pilled men blow off steam over rejection by showing them that the women who rejected them didn't go on to live their happily ever after; that the jerks she chose eventually pumped and dumped her, or they knocked her up and abandoned her, or that her looks continue to decline into spinsterhood as she holds out for a Mr. Perfect who still hasn't shown up. Seeing these instances over time helps men move through the anger phase, get a few laughs along the way, and eventually get on with their lives. We've seen numerous comments from men saying that the sub is supportive for them.
Ultimately, WAATGM keeps men red-pilled by confirming TRP principles in women's own words. It doesn't teach men how to get laid like on TRP, but instead helps prevent their provider instinct from being taken advantage of by women, and for the most part, it works.
Bleu_Cheese_Pursuits 5y ago
So I am subscribed to WAATGM for he reasons you described, but the reason I stay subscribed (unlike to user you linked to in "it works") is because it is easy to forget those lessons. Everything about our society is organized around blue-pilling men. It is practically a foundational principle. So the examination or expression of redpilled ideas is more-or-less absent in popular culture. Like the fact that 1 out of 8 married men are the victims of paternity fraud...that shit should be common knowledge, it is as practical of a biological fact as that blood is red. You should have to be taught that in high school. But the reason it isn't common knowledge is because it is not in the interest of a gynocentric society for it to be. And the same goes for the behaviors we see exemplified on WAATGM. If you don't look for them, they are hard to see. And if you don't keep looking, they are easy to forget (or dismiss as aberrations, as feminists and their blue-pilled apologists do)
phoenix_nz 5y ago
The problem with WAATGM is that it is a community that allows incels and borderline incels to go deeper into incel ideology. Combine that with a a couple power tripping mods (you seem ok) and it's not really a great community to engage with.
The core problem with WAATGM and MGTOW as communities is they act as echo chambers and become focal points for hard and fast truths that don't allow for critical analysis or logic. TRP also suffers from this (it becomes a cult of personality around certain community figureheads), albeit to a lesser degree. This is why the toolbox analogy for TRP is the best one. At least, in my opinion.
SirKolbath 5y ago
More accurately, we give men a place to work through their anger phase. The main TRP sub has a “venting” flair, but users were generally looked down upon for writing such things. WAATGM gives them a place to discuss the perfidy of the dating market free from judgement.
Of course it is an echo chamber. If you want to challenge your ideas, there is an entire feminist Internet available! Go into literally any public discussion forum and say, “A woman who attacks a man deserves to be hit back! Change my mind!” and your in-box will detonate with challenges. Our subreddit is specifically not a debate subreddit because it is not there to challenge ideas for the advanced TRP student. It is there to provide support and encouragement for the neophyte.
Every few months someone posts the following question into /askTRP: ”What was the most important thing you learned from TRP?”
You’d be surprised how many of us reply: “That I wasn’t alone.”
That is why WAATGM exists.
phoenix_nz 5y ago
I respect the intent of WAATGM. I agree it is an important place for guys in the anger phase to go and vent and open their eyes a bit wider to redpill truths. After all, despite being banned by the aforementioned overzealous mod - I'm still subscribed because I get a good laugh and confirmation of redpill reality.
I guess my core problem is that some guys get stuck in the anger phase, or the community attracts those with no intent to change their ways (incels - the proper kind, not those the label gets applied to like FA) and that's when the echo chamber becomes dangerous.
I'm not trying to tell you and kevin how to do your jobs, nor am I proposing a solution; because I don't know what that would be. All I'm saying is that I agree with the sentiment of the OP that for all the good intentions of WAATGM it can be detrimental to certain kinds of men.
Tombert_Williams 5y ago
Throwing gasoline on a fire isn’t exactly helping men work through their anger. If that were the sincere objective, you’d be trying to bring the temperature down, at least some of the time.
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TheTyke 5y ago
Honestly I don't have any interest in casual sex, though. I just want to meet a good woman to start a family with. I don't consider myself bluepill, redpill, MGTOW or whatever else, though.
_do_not_read_this_ 5y ago
I'm all in favor of taking the occasional break. Let's face it, sometimes I just want to be left alone for a few weeks.
But good post. Giving it a name and having all kinds of theories other than "I just want to be left alone for a few weeks" sure makes it seem like "I can't get laid but that's because I'm choosing to not get laid" sour grapes.