Essay:
https://therationalmale.com/2018/06/11/the-nature-of-the-game/
Excerpt:
For men there will always be a want to believe that whatever qualities make up their own personality and their own lifestyle is what should define what is “alpha”. From Alpha:
Guy’s like Corey [Worthington] infuriate men who have invested their self-worth in the accomplishments of what they think ought to be universally appreciated and rewarded. So when they’re confronted with a natural Alpha being undeservedly rewarded for brazenly acting out of accord with what they think the rules ought to be, they seethe with resentment. The natural response in the face of such an inconsistency is to redefine the term ‘Alpha’ to cater to themselves and their accomplishments as “real men” and exclude the perpetrator. The conflict then comes from seeing his new definition of Alpha not being rewarded or even appreciated as well as a natural Alpha attitude and the cycle continues. Your respect (or anyone else’s) for an Alpha has nothing to do with whether or not he possess an Alpha mindset. 3 failed marriages and 100+ lays has nothing to do with his having or not having an Alpha mindset.
In the same way that a Blue Pill conditioned “beta male” believes he best represents the new “alpha” definition, so to do a lot of Red Pill aware men who play the same game of applying their own traits to what should be considered or appreciated as “alpha”. Nowhere is this more apparent than in Trad-Con circles – an Alpha is a guy who takes care of his family and is respected as the head of the home. He takes care of his duties to family, God and country, etc., etc. Really all this is is another grab at affirmation of personal worth. Blue Pill “betas” believe exactly the same self-fulfilling thing from a different set of ideological beliefs.
In the process both the plugged-in and the unplugged create convenient archetypes for the opposite of the apex they want to believe they are and what they hope will be confirmed and rewarded. Usually these are binary caricatures: the Alpha ‘Chad’ is usually whatever image of the popular high school jock that used to be their nemesis fits, while the Beta ‘doormat’ is the George McFly character whose introversion and lack of social intelligence places him at the bottom of the dominance hierarchy. Either one of these guys can be seen in a positive or negative light depending on the perspective of who’s doing the viewing. To the Nümale, whatever that classic Beta does should be what’s appreciated as ‘alpha’ and to the Trad-Con an Alpha is the guy who dominates, but only insofar as he sticks to what they think is his ‘duty’.
Funny how both tend think the Alpha Playah, the self-important ‘Cad’ who women tingle for, who follows his own sexual strategy shouldn’t be considered ‘Alpha’ in spite of women consistently, predictably rewarding him with sex and genuine desire. Rian nailed this part; Alpha makes her wet, Beta makes her secure. Our Instinctual interpretive process understands the visceral reasons why women get worked up for that physically ideal guy who also completes the fantasy of the Alpha Fucks side of Hypergamy. But our Emotional and Rational processes want to recreate a reality in which what we have is what women really want. So we try to persuade and convince women to act against their own Instinctual interpretive process with respect to what they should find sexy and genuinely desirable – us, just as we are. We want to change the Game to fit our capacity, our skill, our genetics, to excel in it.
Beta men don’t just hope that women will perceive their own redefinitions of ‘alpha’ as the accepted ideal, they build lives and systems of belief around convincing others and themselves that we’ve evolved past the visceral realities of what arouses women. Trad-Con men, even Red Pill aware men, do something similar – they hope that their own definition of what should constitute Alpha, and best describes themselves, will likewise supersede the natural evolved impulse of what a woman’s hindbrain perceives as an ideal Hypergamous opportunity.
Flintblood 5y ago
You see, natural “alphas“ are made and most of you can never be one. It’s useless thinking you have a chance with women if you’re not a “natural alpha”, but my magical PUA snake oil can save you. FTFY
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BubbleNuts2413 5y ago
Yet another home run by Rollo.
He's 100% right in pointing out that we have a tendency to fit our own traits and behaviors fit into what we consider to be alpha as a shield for our ego.
This is essentially like trusting what a woman says in lieu of what she does.
"She says she's aroused by me, so why would you even think she'd sleep with that guy who's just a 'friend?' It's only coffee; can't two friends have coffee?"
Meanwhile, she drip feeds him starfish duty sex.
Listen to Rollo!
redpillcad 5y ago
Rollo using Roissy liberally = Great fucking post
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Auvergnat 5y ago
The problem lies in those stupid labels that the Manopshere adopted. The labels themselves are so abstract (a greek letter?), and emotionally charged ("alpha" is obviously superior to "beta", so you can be sure that humans are going to hamster into being the good one of the two).
Saying that women have a dual sexual strategy in that they seek the lover for sex and the provider for security, but that one cannot be exactly both, is useful.
Saying that women in a lover, seek the best lover they can get, and that in a provider they seek the best provider they can get, is useful.
We could have stuck with using "exciting lover" and "dependable provider", and everybody would immediately understand the above statements, even those completely new to those concepts.
But no, we had to prefer "alpha" and "beta", and summarize it all as "alpha fucks, beta bucks, bro. AWALT!"
I am pained by the results of that overlook. They are becoming increasingly obvious to me. Worst of all:
Sure I understand the need for placeholders and appreciate that it speeds up communication with people who already perfectly understand them. But I'd say it 100% single-handedly stunt the growth of the "red pill" awareness (another stupid placeholder that's being increasingly misused, and an obstacle to reaching out).
Flintblood 5y ago
Alphas in the rest of the animal world only have their status for a while. It can be challenged at anytime. Their analogy is insufficient when considering humans. Now we can talk about alpha behavior and traits, and encourage maxing ones potential, but this obsession with permanent natural Alphas is misguided.
chrisname 5y ago
Blame Mystery and the early PUA culture for this. They started the dumb acronym business to make their ideas sound scientific. Any field of study has to have jargon.
KyfhoMyoba 5y ago
I think that the controversy comes from binary thinking. Taking your definitions - which I agree with completely - of alpha and beta, it's more useful to show how each are individually positive qualities that the female seeks to improve survivability of her offspring. Betas (paternal investment) are extremely important to civilization, in fact, you could probably define civilization as paternal investment, and that's why/how monogamy became popular. (Now that women can provision themselves (with Uncle Sugar's help) they're just not so keen on staying married. Still want the big party, though.)
TzarVivec 5y ago
Agree. Another thing that irritates me is how this alpha/beta nomenclature doesn't mirror the natural world. In a wolf pack, the alpha is the calm, confident leader, while the beta is not a complacent loser, but an aggressive lieutenant that enforces the alpha's orders, but also keeps challenging the alpha's dominance, keeping him on his toes.
Also, the alpha usually has a single mating partner, while the rest of the pack barely mates at all.
This terminology is more useful to describe a family (alpha - father, beta - firstborn son, rest of the pack - children) or another tight-knit social unit than sexual strategy.
Rollo-Tomassi 5y ago
It helps when you actually read the article.
Flintblood 5y ago
Yeah the PUA use of alpha and beta is inaccurately oversimplified,
Rian_Stone 5y ago
The perfect example from the article.
RP men have laughed at literal autist like this since the chateau link from what, 2014?
chrisname 5y ago
Also, the obvious: humans aren't wolves and shouldn't model our social behaviour on a species we half turned into chihuahuas.
[deleted] 5y ago
The definitions of words change and mean different things to different people, ESPECIALLY terms like "alpha" or "best".
Says who? An Alpha male is somebody at (or near) the top of the hierarchy, that's the literal definition of the term. Said dependable father could have a lot of money, power and have achieved incredible reproductive success. Is he still not "alpha"?
Auvergnat 5y ago
See that's exactly the kind of terminology debate we wouldn't have if instead of using "alpha", I would use "exciting lover" when you would use "the man at the top of the hierarchy".
In addition, as Rollo would say, you make the mistake of seeing "alpha" and "beta" as demographics instead of a mindset, or traits. As a result in your worldview, one man is either alpha or beta but can't ever be both.
Let's try without those placeholders:
In my worldview, being a sexually exclusive and dependable father are attitudes that make a woman feel secure in your parental investment and thus by definition are traits that fulfills the "provider" side of her sexual strategy. Now perhaps a man can exhibit those attitudes and also be hot, and achieve the heights of his local dominance hierarchy, resulting in women everywhere pining for him, which would be traits that most definitely fulfill his partner's "lover" side of her sexual strategy.
Does this mean that such unicorn of a man is the perfect "alpha AND beta"? Again that would be categorizing in demographics. What if, from times to times, this man might be eyeing one or several of his groupies? Or even applying unconsciously some light dread here and there because he's so high value?, making him an unsafe prospect to his wife? Not so "beta" then... What if the wife goes on a work trip and stumble on a guy who is even hotter than her husband, and exciting in a complete different way? Is the husband "not alpha" anymore because she cheated on him?
There are the pitfalls of using "alpha" and "beta", and especially to see them as demographics.
[deleted] 5y ago
Well that's the dictionary definition of Alpha and Beta males (people or animals, not mindsets), it's just that TRP has now attributed a lot of their own (often conflicting) definitions to the terms. So yes, due to this people should stop overusing them. They won't, but you make a good point anyway.
The crux of the issue is when a group of people use one word to refer to way too many things, you experience a breakdown in communication.
It's like people who refer to all good things as "cool" (or in our case, all behaviors we consider positive as "alpha"). Using language in this way takes away a lot of subtlety, and diminishes the value of our conversations imo.
So in summary, I totally agree with you and hope more posts like this will be submitted to the board.
ApexmanRP 5y ago
I have to say that using your terms, makes the whole thought process and actual relationship game so much clearer. I think it would be great to have a seperate post on it. I am adopting your terminology from now on.
ApexmanRP 5y ago
Completely agree. The problem with shorthand like Alpha Fucks/beta Bucks is that the nuance and understanding behind them gets lost or intercommunicated.
I like to think of Alpha and Beta as a tool kit of thinking and behaviors. I am in an LTR (I have plated for 3 years) and so am aware that I am in danger of appearing "beta" and I don't wont that because I want to maintain the visceral side of sexual attraction and dominance etc etc
So, I am careful to ensure I maintain myself as my mental point of origin and throw in plenty of dominance behaviors. I lead, she follows.
As you say, I aim to be the "exciting lover" 80% of the time and the "dependable provider" the rest. Will it work long term? Fuck knows.. apparently, it's just my turn..
Brantmobile 5y ago
Exactly. My gripe w/ Alpha and Beta is that it's just another form of binary thinking. Life is not black and white and to categorize male behavior in a rigid shell is stupid.
Some guys here have suggested in the past to work with a broader spectrum of terms, but apparently it gets too complex for some people, even though it has the potential to add a much deserving depth to the subject. Go figure.
ApexmanRP 5y ago
Yeah, I guess those that can think a little more nuanced can just do that..
As you say life isn't binary, so it might create more issues for guys trying to take the binary approach.
Rian_Stone 5y ago
Notice the lack of agency.
The message gets lost
Vs
You didn't read and understand before you ran your mouth.
None of this works if you act like a thot.
ApexmanRP 5y ago
Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? I cant tell... I must be a miserable beta.. ;-)
Rian_Stone 5y ago
How we write reflects how we think. Try to avoid the passive voice. This isn't stuff that happens to us, it's stuff we do
Mr-Ed209 5y ago
The problem is women's interests and tastes are dynamic, they change upon the environment. As does all human behaviour. One theory as to why we have such large complex brains is an ability to asses sexual partners based on some pretty complex environmental criteria. The AF/BB theory is useful but it's so linear to the point that it is foolish in many ways. The collectiveness of this sub is desperate to adopt a one size fits all theory on these matters that it becomes dangerously reductionist.
I feel women's nature can be better understood by grasping the more 'existential nature' of what is at hand. Women view men in a similar vain to how men view careers. Women are defined to a large part in who their man is. Men are defined in large part as to what their career is. Much of feminism (and shitty female behaviour) is a means to justify the angst women feel in 'selling out' to their partner.
In the same way a man can walk into his well paid 9-5 corporate job, which offers healthcare a stable pension and whatever else and just decide to say fuck this I can't take it anymore, I'm going to go bar tend in the Caribbean. So to do women leave well payed good looking men to have flings with drug dealers, convicts or all other amount of low lives. In the medium to long term both parties are likely to regret not sticking with stable option. But some amount of resentment and loathing within them compelled them to say fuck it.
[deleted] 5y ago
I think there are really two issues on the table, and this is always the case when we discuss TRP topics. The first issue is what is best for the man individually, pure self help. From this perspective I agree with the post. We as men today do want to imagine that our positive qualities are the “true” alpha, when in reality we should simply look at the data and see what the reality is.
But then there is the other side of the coin, where we ask ourselves how does this intersect with the issues our society is facing at large? Some here don’t care, and this is 100% fine, but others like to think about and discuss these issues, and I think that’s ok too.
In the context of point two, I think the post is a bit off. Yes some traits are natural alpha, but to imply that women’s preferences exist in a vacuum is untrue. They are clearly also influenced by a man’s social position, which is mostly determined by the opinions of other men (at least historically). All else equal, the leader of the tribe, the captain of the football team, the president of the fraternity is much more attractive than an identical man without this trait.
In this context, it makes perfect sense for us as men to ask how the fuck “that guy” who we know does not have the traits that would make us vote for him to lead our tribe in a life or death struggle, has high social status and is getting laid. If men choose who among us are our leaders and who has high status, it is only natural to feel annoyed when you see someone that you do not think deserves this status with success.
KyfhoMyoba 5y ago
I've said many times here,
Don't confuse male hierarchy with female sexual strategy.
[deleted] 5y ago
But the entire point of animal hierarchies is mating opportunities.
KyfhoMyoba 5y ago
Emphasis on the Animal hierarchies.
There is some overlap, but they are not at all the same.
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A_yoshi_Egg 5y ago
what does a woman’s hindbrain perceive as an ideal Hypergamous opportunity then?
CreatedItJust2Saythi 5y ago
A handsome, attractive, physically superior man.
Once that physical aesthetics superiority and singularity is met by a man, that becomes the only thing that matters to women. At this point his behavior, his game, his inner-beauty, his bucks... women shit on all these latter things when their brains are going through the AF stage of their lives. The AF, pre-wall stage of women's lives is all about handsomeness, looks and outer beauty.
Remember that male fitness and superiority are very different things for men and women:
What male superiority lies in, according to the male mind: WORK, achievement, performance in making this one a better world and increasing our probabilities of survival, both in a scientific, intellectual, cerebral way and in a technological, applied, muscular way.
What male superiority lies in, according to the AF, pre-wall stage female mind: FIGHT, competition, aggressiveness, muscle, handsomeness, looks, outer beauty.
KyfhoMyoba 5y ago
Gotta disagree with your BB definition.
Beta is PROVISIONING, and paternal investing.
Auvergnat 5y ago
Read any romance novel for women and you'll know.
[deleted] 5y ago
If you do this you'll come up with lots of different, often conflicting reasons.
It varies from book to book. Regardless of whether you believe "AWALT", it doesn't apply to the work of female authors.
tikitheman 5y ago
I think IDGAF attitude trumps all atleast in the moment. I think thats is the reason why the worst men can get some of the best woman. They just truly do not give a fuck.
SheepWaker 5y ago
Why give a fuck? It will disappoint you always. Just do you, and the rest will follow.
sadomasochrist 5y ago
I actually beat Rollo to the punch for once after being accused of riding his coat tails ;)
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/7ukku8/the_true_alpha_on_male_virtue/
Interested from the readership here on where each of us were weak or strong on this analysis of the SMP.
Personally I wish he would have spent some time dissecting the red pill aware men who try to do the same goal post shifting. But otherwise, the critique of the phenomenon is important and something I think everyone should read from both of us when you start judging the actions of other men in the SMP.
Truth of the matter is that women love men who are objectively awful human beings, straight up.
Schhwing 5y ago
The lover archetype is so much more easily actuated than the “alpha”. The alpha is almost always out of reach, it’s always the impossible, because humans are flawed and ideals are never satiated.
I’m 6” tall. To me an alpha is 6”2”. I’m athletic. To me, an alpha is jacked and ripped. The guys that are actually 6”2” and jacked probably see some flaw in themselves that needs work also. It’s an unhealthy thought pattern.
However I can perfectly easily see myself as a lover. And my success with women in the past have been from when I have acted in the lover role. When I acted as a provider, I got played.
Lover/provider > alpha/beta
ApexmanRP 5y ago
"I’m 6” tall. To me an alpha is 6”2”. I’m athletic. To me, an alpha is jacked and ripped. "
i have seen plenty of tall, ripped dudes who suck with women. Thieu genetics get them so far, but that's it. They crash and burn pretty quickly.