In all 3 of the Abrahamic religions the relationship between women and men is never that of equals, and while women require rights in every functioning society, our ancestors had male-dominated doctrines ingrained in both culture and religion, and this allowed the progression of society. Isolated cultures all developed patriarchy simply because it was the most efficient and sensible way to continue civilisation. If men and women were truly equal, we would see a 50/50 split between matriarchy and patriarchy, but the few matriarchy-based societies all collapsed because of its unsustainable nature.
In typical Islamic-Jewish marriages (No premarital sex, it makes a lot more sense than you would first think) you hardly ever get blue balled blue pilled white knights putting women on pedestals.Granted, you get a lot of entitled manchildren, but more alphas than I typically see here in the UK.The men know their place, and the women know theirs. Putting the Islamophobic and anti-semetic bullshit you hear on the left wing media aside, these kinds of marriages have a much lower divorce rate and are overall rated happier. Because its natural.
Western Society has lost hold of its roots. Us Red-Pillers arent here to have a heated debate over religion. None of us are so bitchy and pathetic. To each there own, and for each, good! But religion came with a strong hold of roles that both women and men play. The SJW media bashes the evil in this and neglects to so much as mention the greater good. You need only to look at history to see how we made it this far, and need only to look at the present to see the trainwreck we are being led into by the degeneration of classic western society. There is such thing as being TOO good to women, and us westerners have been guilty of this crime for the last 50 years.
preworkoutandsteak 6y ago
My husband and I are both Torah Observant, men's rights activists...and the Bible from start to finish has men as the leaders and women as "keepers of the home". President and VP...the VP has serious duties, but defers to the President
Modern Christianity ignores the roles of men and women and it is sad.
BernieSandersgirl101 6y ago
Thanks. Misandrists are using THIS as material.
HirsiHD 6y ago
Something else I found interesting is that in Islam the Quran starts talking about marriage starting with 2, 3 then 4 wives. Having one wife isn't explicitly mentioned, this is encouraging the abundance mentality we swear by here.
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Omisla1 6y ago
Matriarchal groups still exist tho they aren't very big
Satou4 6y ago
Can you close pandora's box?
[deleted] 6y ago
Yeah, religion is psychology on mass scale. Before, you had your church. Now, you have your pharma drugs and other high tech stuff to escape your mental shit.
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suxxos 6y ago
One thing that interests me, if so many guys think Islam has it right about women, why so few of you ever move to Islam countries? It should be a paradise for you, right?
Rakosnik 6y ago
They surely would appreciate burkas everyfuckingwhere. No wonder when the dudes from afrika and middle east come illegaly to europe they go ape shit crazy rapping women. Fuck that crazy shit from middle ages.
[deleted] 6y ago
People ignore this nowadays, but in the old testament David (arguably one of God's most.beloved servants) had multiple wives. His son, Solomon, the smartest, and richest, man to ever live (according to what God said in the Bible), and the one who built the temple of God, had over 700 wives. 700. The Bible is extremely red-pill, even though it might have its disagreements with the current red pill, it still teaches a form of Red Pill to its followers in order to produce what the red pill calls "alpha men".
rp-Ubermensch 6y ago
I'm an ex-muslim that was brought up in a muslim country in a muslim household. Let me share with you a verse and you tell me if this is not pure TRP, The Surah (chapter?) is literally called the surah of women:
The quran literally tells you to soft next your wife if she's being a bitch, now you wonder why Germans are throwing themselves at alpha muslim dick.
James_Rustler_ 6y ago
I see similarities to the Christian bible a lot of the times when discussing Islam. Here's some similar verses from the Christian bible:
Throughout the bible we see women being subservient to their husbands, but equally important is the man providing for, honoring, and respecting her.
jewishsupremacist88 6y ago
In the Talmud it specifically states that even the best of women are full of pure witchcraft an that a woman must remain subserviant
mikesteane 6y ago
Can you give a reference for this?
BeefJerkyRocks 6y ago
This shit also tells you to strike the woman as well.
Chaddeus_Rex 6y ago
TBH, nothing wrong with that. All form of 'physical violence' are viewed as 'bad' in Western societies. Its just another way to control men. Men have superior physical strength and resort to it in a pinch. Women have superior manipulative abilities and resort to that. What does society do? It restricts masculine physicality but allows feminine manipulativeness. A man will not strike a woman (in most cases) unless driven to it by a progressive breaking down of his emotions over a long period of time. A woman always employs her psychological tools, regardless of the situation. The Quoran recognizes this fact.
rp-Ubermensch 6y ago
Well yeah islam's fucking barbaric, it suggests throwing gays off of high buildings, cutting the hands of thieves, beheading apostates such as myself...
Still, Islam was meant to be both a religion and a civic code for muslim nations to live by, and 1400 years ago in the absence of human rights, these laws were deemed appropriate at the time.
Heck 1400 years ago Europe was in the dark ages, people were boiled alive, impaled to death, drawn and quartered... The only difference is that the West got its shit together and renounced its barbaric ways in favor of enlightenment and science, while the east clings to the "glorious past" (the golden age of Islam)
msukk 6y ago
DUDE ???? THEY SAY THEY USE CAPITAL PUNISHMENT IN MIDDLE EAST BUT ITS ALL BS ???? ppl get caught stealing all the time. Its a jail sentence and they are good. None of the old school punishment exists anymore. Because if it did there would ACTUALLY be less crime. Middle east is alot more westernised than you think. And speaking of punishment. anyone wanna mention the relatively recent use of an ELECTRIC CHAIR to kill someone....Like...or poisoning a crim? LOOK at urselves honestly. Think of all the crap america has done in the past. All the savageness. All the hate. All the killing all the severities. And you guys want to cry about some hand cutting for a crime that they put thenselves into. Did the native americans do anything wrong to be massacred? Did the innocent afghani and iraqi civilians do anything to be massacred and die a painful death. All those children. All those innocent people. BUT NOOOO hand cutting is too severe. Get a grip and face reality. We are worse off in these modern western times than we were back then. alot worse.. man has been around long enough to develop reasoning behind what is right and what is wrong. History is just repeating itself. Gays came about and were accepted a cupla thousand or so years. They get distinguished. Its frowned upon heavily. Then killed about. Then accepted slowly. Then THEYRE BACK. Dont think itll last very long. Because it wont. Society will realise its mistake. And it wont be pretty.
haskayn 6y ago
Typical whiney ex muslim post.
But still truth that people still dumb enough to cherry pick literalism, alotta muslims in those countries think thay way.
ekilic911 6y ago
What you are describing is not what Islam is about. It's an altered version of Extremist Sharia law which doesn't even apply to all Islamic country court laws and it is definitely have nothing to do with God's and Prophet's will. I am in a secular democratic Islamic Middle East Country. We do not have execution for punishment nor do we not have "gay rights" but in my hometown people do whatever they want with their homosexual lifestyles because we as culture have moral understanding not only based on Islamic view but from psychology and philosophy. Quran translations are most of the time are done literally. In the context It can mean many things, and some of the citations are explained by our prophet or highly respected people around prophet.(Buhârî Marriage 93) Prophet's hadith is saying that hitting women is not accepted and against our ethics. My understaning is about striking women is If your wife is harming your family's honor and domestic relations and spending time outside with other men which could possibly lead on to fornication with other men then husband can deal with that by striking as soft as possible without leaving any kind of scar or hitting face.
My take is that western people are way too at ease with their wifes and girlfriends. I would never let my gf go to a vacation, bar, or place on her own where its the intend of the place is to meet people to mingle, She wouldnt go around looking for that either because we frown upon those. When I usually enter a place with my gf, people know that she is mine and would not even dare to talk to her with any means of flirting neither would she. But western guys are not "jealous types" and flirt with everyone. Our people are more loyal because in social cues we know not to go for other men's or women's SO If we know they are taken. What I am saying is that We do not let stations arise to a point where people are so "modern" they go around flirting with everyone and fuck others and cry about wives not being loyal. Our system is designed so that doesn't happen even come close to it. There are still possibilities and AWALT applies too but compared to western countries its like doesn't even exist.
Glassantler 6y ago
Makes you wonder. Is it because men are afraid of other men hitting on the woman or the woman prefering the other man. Im going with the second. We don't want them to flirt because men are afraid they will leave.
rp-Ubermensch 6y ago
I'm from Morocco which is very much a muslim country, and my argument is not whether or not these Shariaa rules are applied in muslim countries or not, my argument is that these laws do exist within the quran and hadith and in the ideal muslim world these laws ought to be applied.
It's great that most muslim countries (except Saudi, Afghanistan, Iran...) no longer apply Shariaa law to its full extent, mostly because of the rise of human rights and condemnation from the international community, but you still have to admit that Islam is supposed to be taken whole and not like an all you can eat buffet where you can cherry pick the rules by which to abide and leave out the ones that make your life inconvenient.
Here are examples from both the quran and hadith:
However I do agree with your second paragraph. We arabs mate guard a lot, people know if a girl is yours and know a fight will occur if they talk to her, and girls seem to enjoy the drama. We even have women who openly say they enjoy it when their BF hits em, saying shit like "He'll hit me and let know else hit me (literal translation".
We also haven't reached Western level divorce rape, plus the stigma that surrounds women divorcees. So it's in women's best interest to please their husbands and not be total bitches and be rewarded with half their fortunes.
Glassantler 6y ago
Mate guarding is a result of jealousy. Which is a weakness. We are afraid other men will take our girls. That's not true though. It's not the other man's fault the girl decided to go for him. She chose him.
You cannot say it wasn't her fault. She knows exactly what she is doing. We blame other men because we believe they are the ones responsible. That's a lie.
If you can't keep her interested enough. It's your fault she is leaving. Also it's her fault for even entertaining the other man.
If your girl is flirting with other men. She is bored and done with the relationship. "She's ready to quit her job and is looking for another one before she quits."
msukk 6y ago
Dude thats bs. If she isnt interested enough she should either speak out and try fix things or leave in a civil manner rather than flirting and going straight ti the extremes. Whole point of a relationship is beyond being entertained. Once you are together its a committment. You make it work no matter what. So its no longer a matter of being interested. Because interest only lasts for so long in a relationship before it becomes more a duty to one another
Glassantler 6y ago
You expect women to do anything about It? Should they yes. Will they no.
msukk 6y ago
????♂️ you cant speak for all women buddy. Some have their head screwed on
Glassantler 6y ago
While you aren't wrong it's really not a good argument. People make statements referring to the general population. It's normally assumed when people are speaking in general. That there are exceptions.
Glassantler 6y ago
I will also add. Once upon a time people used to make it work. As most of them didn't really have the option. Divorce wasn't always seen as a possibility. Of course today in west divorce rates are much higher at least in America. Than they used to be. It's become more common place. Relationships have become less about duty and more about happiness.
Chaddeus_Rex 6y ago
Sure its 'barbaric', but it works...at least the cutting off the hands of thieves part. Would you want to steal if you know you'd lose a hand and then be marked for life (with a lack of a hand) so that society ostracizes you? In fact this method was used in Singapore to lower crime rates in as late as the 1960's. I honestly think that society should employ more 'barbaric' methods at times for it will reduce crime rates...this babying of criminals that is currently done does not help anyone.
meaningintragedy 6y ago
Yes, you would.
Sharia is applied in many countries including Saudi Arabia, and people STILL steal and get their hands cut.
Stoning of adulterous people is a thing, and people still commit adultery!
These methods not only are useless, but inhuman as well as you can't reverse them in case of a mistake (just like death sentence).
Chaddeus_Rex 6y ago
People still would but it cuts down the cases of doing so significantly. Just look at Singapore. The current system doesn't reduce crime...in fact it promotes it.
LOL. Right and modern methods are so 'useful' that many criminals view prison as a vacation spot where they are fed three times a day, and get free shelter - so many just go do crimes to go back to prison.
Inhuman? What the fuck does that even mean? Savagery is very much part of what it means to be human, otherwise it would not be such a persistent theme in history. Also, stop being a moralizing cuck....what are you a girl?
So then the judicial system better work harder to not make a mistake...mistakes are currently common in the judicial system because the consequences aren't significant.
meaningintragedy 6y ago
Yeah, I am a cuck and a girl because I think that cutting people's hands is barbaric.
Chaddeus_Rex 6y ago
Yea you are.
A complete man hides his Barbaric nature under a thin veneer of civilization.
You have killed the Barbarian entirely and thus cannot become a Complete man.
If you think violence is Barbaric, its because you bought into the feminine imperative, hook, line and sinker.
meaningintragedy 6y ago
Lol, you are pulling shit out of your ass. I said it's unnecessarily barbaric to cut people's hand. If it gets you off to draw my psychological profile over the internet, go right ahead.
Chaddeus_Rex 6y ago
Im am quoting what you said.
Moreover if you believe it is "psychopathic" to do what is normal in most of the world and over most of human history, it further supports my point of your investment in the feminine imperative.
XAbbadonX 6y ago
This man is what you should strive to be.
MEN are violent, don't let social norms and feminism tell you otherwise/its a bad thing.
Evolution/God/Spaghetti Monster made us this way, embrace it.
NitroDen 6y ago
I have my doubts (believe me I do) but for the time being I am a muslim. And yes. That is alpha as fuck
McRoddy 6y ago
Yeah, Muslim here too. My father ingrained me with redpill shit from an early age. When I asked him why he never cried ( I only saw him cry when learning of the death of his mother) he told me there is nothing to gain from showing weakness and everything to lose.
meaningintragedy 6y ago
If you have your doubts you're gonna leave religion sooner or later. That's what happened to me and to all my ex-muslim friends.
NitroDen 6y ago
Reason I don't is because it would severely dissapoint my father. Who is in himself a wonderful man. So what if I cant drink and have premarital sex? I can go without that fine for his sake.
meaningintragedy 6y ago
This is retarded as fuck. You can't force yourself to believe in something that you think doesn't make sense. If your father was as privileged as you and had access to the internet when he was your age, he'd probably be an atheist too.
You can be an atheist and not drink nor have premarital sex, and vice versa.
NitroDen 6y ago
Complicated dude. So what if he is that way, trust me when i say he won't change from what has been ingrained in him, and I cant let him be depressed in his later years because he will honestly believe I'll be damned and in hellfire if I'm not muslim. It doesnt cost much to keep him happy, just some Quran and some Salat. He isn't asking me to be a scholar. He just wants me to stay close, is all.
Also not dating saves you a LOT of stress. I've never given a fuck about what girls think about me, I havent spent a cent on a girl I won't care about in the future, I havent spent a second worrying about whether I look right, and I've never been dissapointed before. I can look forward to a higher probability of a successful marriage, in the event I decide to do so, and my liver will stay squeaky clean of alcohol. So what if it makes me seem ignorant, I don't want to lose my dad.
meaningintragedy 6y ago
Huh? Who told you to make your father leave Islam? I was talking about you.
MGTOW without fucking other women is a good lifestyle if it makes you happy.
NitroDen 6y ago
He wont accept me if im not muslim, and being muslim doesnt cost me much. Its simple really
meaningintragedy 6y ago
...
You don't have to tell him.
NitroDen 6y ago
True,but that would be lying. Not to him, but to myself. And I have far too much self-respect to betray myself for some whores.
WestyWorld 6y ago
I wouldn’t say marriages of these type are happier. Divorce rates are lower in very religious families because of cultural pressures. There is often a higher family investment (think Hindu weddings with 500+ guests) and a bigger cost to divorce. It is often a huge shame for the family of the divorcée and many traditional parents can’t move past it. In addition, the status of “divorced” significantly lowers their SMV in that community (especially women who’s value declines with age).
It’s a double edged sword. I’m not a part of a religious family and I envy the huge family support some of these families have. Like the families are actively involved in correcting marital problems. But at the same time, I would NOT want to be a part of these communities if my wife decided to 180 and become a total biatch after marriage because I could potentially be stuck in a shitty marriage.
mallardcove Endorsed Contributor 6y ago
So many people want to tear down tradition and societal norms.
The thing is it's not like tradition and societal norms happened to just be put in because the powers that be hated women, hated minorities, hated change. They were put in there because of trial & error from the past and learning from mistakes, and realizing that some societal norms should be enforced because that is what is best overall for society.
Monogamous marriages/relationships and slut shaming as well as keeping sex within marriage existed for a reason, and not because society was run by a bunch of angry old men who hated women and wanted to keep them down and wanted to shove religious beliefs down everyone's throat. No, it's because rampant open sex and promiscuity weakens the fabric of society.
NitroDen 6y ago
Absolutely. Nothing was more manly than the men of the past, the men of the 1600's and 1700's and 1800's. The men that built the ''paradise'' we live in today. Back then traditional feminine traits were modesty, obedience, silence and wisdom, and it damn well worked. Now those values are being warped as women adapt the traits of men, which will inevitably fail, as men trying to be women would also. I mean, you dont see a man trying to get pregnant or leeching off of a successful female for status and wealth, to sit at home and read beauty and health articles all day, do you?
Chaddeus_Rex 6y ago
Who were pussies compared to the men of 1300, 1400's and 1500's. In fact, the men who established the Ummayyid Caliphate where alpha as fuck.
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Chaddeus_Rex 6y ago
Damn right they were. Men from 40BC were the true OG's
Sleeping_with_ur_mom 6y ago
Psh. Literally LMAO'ing @ your example. You mean the men of pre-recorded history--they were the real alpha men.
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BeefJerkyRocks 6y ago
Haha "society". Look up bonobos mate, they have rampant sex and are one.
RandyBumgardner85 6y ago
I don't feel any need or desire to live in a society that forces women into marital slavery. There are a lot of Muslims where I live and the women all look miserable and ugly as shit. Women are people and I believe they should have freedom of choice. I think the problem lies in the fact that society has been skewed somewhat to try and force men to pay the price for women's poor decision making.
If men were encouraged to be more masculine, women more feminine and divorce/custody laws more fair, monogamy would probably appear a far better option for women.
NitroDen 6y ago
Ugly does not relate to their situation, but perhaps they are indeed miserable. Religion and islamic societies have more issues than the west, thats a given. But they have something we do not currently possess
RPLawyer 6y ago
When you think about it, women always had rights, it's just that they were women's rights, which happened to be different from men's rights, for the simple reason that men and women are fundamentally different. Feminism's quest for women's rights should really be called the quest of giving women men's rights but without the responsibilities. The best example is the "right" to vote. Until women represent 50% of the people dying to protect the country and its citizens, including solidiers, policemen and firemen, they should't have the right to vote. And these rights without responsibility (i.e. privileges) are not just a problem stemming from women: why does someone who is on welfare get the right to vote? Why do prisoners get the right to vote? Giving power to people who don't have skin in the game is why governements keep going further and further left. When they fuck up, they blame it on the people who didn't vote for them: the white conservative middle/lower class men.
If, on the contrary, only people who have done their military service and own property could vote, which would be mostly men, I'm willing to bet that westen society wouldn't be like this with its open borders and its 50%+ divorce rate.
charizardspitfire 6y ago
You do realize that nobody is forcing men to become policemen, firemen, and soldiers, right? Both women AND MEN have the right in western, developed societies to choose whether they want to have these types of jobs or not. Punishing women would therefore make no sense by your standards. Your mother didn't spend 9 months carrying you around for you to go ahead and try to take away her rights. You seriously are lacking in empathy my friend.
RPLawyer 6y ago
Despite women having all the choices, gender roles are still defined enough for feminists to complain about them endlessly.
Please refer to my other argument about "wahman give muh burth" for a refutation.
Finally, research have showed that women tend to vote for liberal governments much more than men. Which is the reason we're in this mess right now. So maybe if leeches lost the privilege to vote, they would use it wisely if they ever got it back.
Chaddeus_Rex 6y ago
Problem is that most men (including those on TRP) are pussies and wouldn't want to be conscripted in the military for two years out of high school, though it would benefit them greatly.
Entropy-7 6y ago
And 50% of those dying while building the country and keeping it running - construction workers, lumberjacks, linesmen etc.
Still, Heinlein was on to something.
RPLawyer 6y ago
Yeah, I mean I could have written a book about how men are more useful. Because a lot of people have done that already.
wildwildeastgyal 6y ago
That's so stupid. 50% of the population is responsible for giving birth to you lots. That on it's own garners the right to have a say in how society functions.
Nice try.
RPLawyer 6y ago
You know what is stupid? People who think the "women give birth therefore they deserve X" argument is good.
Giving birth means nothing. Oh, I'm sure it hurts and if I have children someday, I will be proud of my wife and love her for it. On a biological scale however, it's meaningless. Women can do it while they are unconscious. If women didn't have men (or the State in modern times) to support them and their offspring after delivery, the human race would die off.
So you tell me, what's more important:
Paying most of the taxes that support the medical system that allows women to have viable offsprings, paying for them to stay at home while they raise their child, fighting wars to protect that baby's rights and freedoms, saving that baby from a fire, arresting the fucked up people who might try to abduct them, running all the infrastructure that allow the baby to have running water, electricity, a roof on their heads, practicable roads to go buy necessities, delivering these necessities to stores, ...
All of that doesn't mean that childrearing is easy or unecesary but it is certainly easier than most of the thing men do which is why, despite decades of feminist propaganda, stay at home dads are a fringe minority.
Kinbaku_enthusiast 6y ago
I'm surprised that you call discussions of intellectual differences to be bitchy and pathetic. To each their own, good?
No.
If a friend of mine is making a mistake in how he views the world, I'll tell him. Because when your map of the world is accurate, you navigate it well. When your map is bluepilled, you keep being surprised by the incongruity between map and real world. And I count on my friends to point out when I'm making a mistake that I'm not seeing.
And finally you're completely being wrong in regards about being "too good to women". Women aren't being treated well at all. They're being guided into roles that will ultimately probably make them unhappy, evidenced by the fact that their happiness across the west is declining every year, for decades.
Giving women everything, teaching them professions they don't like, instilling male ambition into women, is not treating them too good, it's just treating them badly. Just as buying everything for a woman because you want to sleep with her isn't treating her good.
Treating a woman good is treating her as nature made her.
And really if anything is the west's problem it's this feeling of guilt that's wholesale accepted. Guilt for what? For connecting the world? For giving everyone more opportunities? In any case, guilt or pride are both weird for things you haven't helped accomplish yourself. Western society has embraced far too much collective guilt, especially compared to what it's been responsible for. Finding a new thing to feel guilty for is not the solution. A vindication and stopping of accepting unearned guilt is the solution.
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Kinbaku_enthusiast 6y ago
Yet there is a huge lobby to get women into tech specifically. Like male nurses, they on average end up flaking out and choosing another profession. Besides that women are pressured to chase success in a way that only makes few women long term happy. If their desire is to make a home and family, then there is social pressure on them to not do so.
Just because people aren't forced into something doesn't mean they don't respond to encouragement, pressure and incentives.
Of course human nature wins out in the end, but for many women this results in a crisis in their 30s.
solitudeisunderrated 6y ago
I am from a muslim country. My mother came from a broken family (grandma married four times) and she developed schizophrenia when I was about 6 and my sister was about 7. My father is a blue collar worker and but he had always been an alpha in the family. Even when my mother was sick, he never let my mother leave us home alone. He always made sure we had food prepared on the table and house clean. Granted he sometimes beat my mother but he kept the family together and took care of my mother illness as well at the same time. He took her to doctors all over the country found some drugs that worked to stabilize her condition. He has no education but through trial and error found a way to make a very good mother out of my sick mother. They raised two children who became very successful and they are still living together. It is not your picture perfect family but hell it is very strong.
cherryCanSuckMyDick 6y ago
Its funny, where I live, hed be declared a monster for being a woman-beater, and none of the other good things would even be considered in his defence.
And that wouldnt just be the reaction youd get from the pink-haired millenial freak of the family, every single person going back to grandparents would instantly condemn him just because he hit a woman.
I wonder if this is just a thing in the way anglo societies think, the "never hit a woman" trope is practically law around here
solitudeisunderrated 6y ago
I have written my old man a lifetime forgiveness check even if he calls me and asks me to bury a corpse I wouldn’t ask what, who, why and just tell him “no problem”. So I’m a bit biased.
Technically our neighbors could try to do something about the beating (only happened for a couple moths or so 25 years ago when my mother was really out of control due to hallucinations). But they knew the family situation and just tried to console my mother and advice my father to be a little less harsh. They know what would happen otherwise. Either we would be dead if my mother went worse or end up way worse than where we are today without a father.
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peaceful_strong_man 6y ago
The Christian view of marriage is blue-pilled. According to the Quran, polygyny is legal and fornication of women is punished by house arrest to protect them and their sexual market value. They do not become the town's slut and get their family's care and supervision, which they need after being caught fornicating. Both Torah and Quran allow polygyny. It is absolutely normal, but today's NWO, blue-pilled, Christian-dominated Western world even hundreds of years ago codified monogamy in law and outlawed polygamy. However, there is no need to play the government's game of marriage. Just do it in a non-governmental way (which essentially is like a "serious relationship").
samurai96 6y ago
Islam is the chosen religion of the one true God. I'll say that to anybody's face. In the end, the Muslims, the true beleivers in the unseen, will save humanity from its own filth, and protect that which is virtuous.
No other religion has the level of commitment Islam has, no other religion has 90% of its members still loyal to its original tenants, and no other religion will be able to stand up to post modernism. Go ahead and laugh at us, just like they once laughed at the prophets of God. I swear, the day will come that the Muslims will save civilization, and you will kiss our feet in gratitude.
Don't let your hubris cloud your vision. They plan, and God plans, and God is the best of planners.
Rakosnik 6y ago
Youre talking like that "prophet" of yours in the 6th century. That dude was a pedophile, rapist and a murderer. Even your own books say that yet none of muslims want to see or talk about the facts. I can tolarate Islam to the point muslims tolerate me. Once in group not in a minority you muslims start forcing everyone around to obey your own bullshit. Fuck that. I can say that to your face as well.
samurai96 6y ago
Yeah he married Aisha at age 9. We don't care. In Islam, a girl can consummate marriage right after puberty. We are also allowed 4 wives under certain conditions, and concubines if we earn them through warfare, and our wives MUST, except for in extreme circumstances, fulfill her marital duty. There is more nuance to all this of course but those are the generalities.
There is no way in hell you could stomach any of that. You can't even stomach a tiny bit of that. And for that reason your children will oneday declare the shahadah Inshallah.
Rakosnik 6y ago
fuck your middle ages mentality dude. i guess cuz of hellslam your fellow muzzies go shit crazy once they illegaly enter a real world where women have value and can actually show they are women unlike your burka durka black walking ghosts of women.
i also wonder why the fuck muzzies run away from their hellslam paradies countries when it is all cool and well with hellslam.
you are right i cannot stomach such bullshit as hellslam. try to force your shit on my kids and youll meet your evil maker in seconds ayshafucker.
samurai96 6y ago
Nah, you wouldn't do anything. You're kid is gonna grow up to pray five times a day. I can already see it.
FirstNamesMusic 6y ago
Christianity actually is the same way. There is a verse stating that men should hold leadership positions if at all possible, and that men are the "head" and women are the "neck".
The only problem is, real Christianity is so watered down these days it helps create the BP mess we are seeing today.
kkri3 6y ago
Ironically I went in to a Catholic school and used to think that religion is stupid until I found TRP. After understanding how the human nature works, the puzzle pieces started to fall in their places. The teachings in the Bible hold true even today, they are just often misinterpreted and hard to understand.
Let's take the Ten Commandments for example:
You shall have no other gods before Me. This one was the one I used to think was just complete bollocks. It says that God should be more important in your life than anything else. It makes way more sense if you reverse the phrase. You shouldn't invest too much in anything. Be it your particular hobby, bitcoin, your relationship with the perfect unicorn, your startup, whatever. Shit could go wrong and you could lose literally everything in your life, but you should still be able to keep your frame since you always have something more important you can't lose no matter what - your beliefs (in God).
You shall not make idols. This one is easy. You shouldn't waste your time worshipping anything or anyone. God created us in His likeness, and wants us to live our lives to our fullest potential.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain. This one seems simple but actually has two meanings. Firstly, you shouldn't complain, swear or shift blame no matter happens. Keep your frame. Not making any gains? Stop blaming your genetics, step up and double check if you are really doing everything perfectly. Secondly, you should learn some respect. You are not the hottest shit to ever walk on Earth and you should know how to give respect to those who deserve it. By respecting God, you learn how to respect others.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. The stress is on the very first word - remember. No matter how busy you are, you should take some time every week to embrace your spirituality. Meditate, go to the Church, do whatever that helps you true to your beliefs (God). This is especially important in todays extremely fast society. Most people don't seem to know how to shut down and get immersed in their own thoughts.
Honor your father and your mother. This one might be dated with all those broken families in the western society, but this commandment is really straightforward. Families are crucial for any society to function properly, so you should make your parents job easier by respecting and helping them. Anyone frequenting this sub knows that children raised by single mothers tend to end up as blue-pilled betas or as women incapable of a real relationship.
You shall not murder. This should be self explanatory, the human life is the most beautiful thing and we shouldn't waste it in vain. Note that it says murder, not kill. It has the subtle difference that it's okay to kill the crazy fellow trying to knife you because you stole his girlfriend if you have no other choice.
You shall not commit adultery. You shouldn't have sex outside of marriages to keep it sacred and stable. Sex is one of the most important things in our lives, so it should be respected as something special to connect with a single person. This one is totally outdated and seems nearly impossible, but the idea behind it is still brilliant. Watching porn or thinking about having non-marital sex with someone also counts as sins. With movements such as no-fap we can easily understand why this rule is so strict.
You shall not steal. This one also has multiple messages. If you want something work for it. Be content with what you have. Don't be greedy or too focused on material wealth.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. You should always be honest. Some people on this sub think it's okay to lie and deceive others in order to get further in life, but there is no faster way to lose others respect than getting caught lying.
Regardless whether you believe in God or not, I dare to say that Europe would be much better off if the majority of the countries were still Catholic and took the teachings of the Bible at least a bit seriously. In my opinion losing religion is one of the greatest factors why the western society is going down the shitters from a moral standpoint.
Chaddeus_Rex 6y ago
The relationships between genders can be attributed to a hold-over from pagan religions, which made more sense than the current Abrahamic ones.
TheRealJesusChristus 6y ago
Well, yeah, but you dont hit women, and they do that. If you have to hit your woman you did it wrong.
charizardspitfire 6y ago
So true! I feel like this is the part that all of these people in this thread are failing to mention. The main reason why women weren't at the forefront of society like men were is because they would be beaten if they tried putting themselves in postitions of power. You really think men would dominate society if women were physically bigger and stronger than them? Hell no.
TheRealJesusChristus 6y ago
Yeah, you have to be able to fight her physically, but you must not do it. If she tries to „overthrow“ your power, drop her and get a girl that lets you be the dominant power of your life. And let her know that this is the way you live, so she doesnt even think about this kind of shit.
If you have to hit your woman to stay in power, drop her and get yourself a new girl.
Of course, in real life this is a bit more difficult. If you jave kids with her and she begins to threaten you, yeah, drop her but then she always will use the kids against you. Thats why many trpers will try to tell you not to have kids ever. In the end its your desicion and you shouldnt let anyone talk you into changing your mind. Not your girl („lets have kids“ when you dont want) not people in the internet („you never should have kids because this is evil“ although you want to have kids). Just listen to both and decide yourself.
xovyz 6y ago
I find Asian chicks to be similar, they have these traditionalistic ideals and values where the man is in the dominant and leading role in the relationship, the woman is submissive.
So I moved to Asia
scissor_me_timbers00 6y ago
Not just the three abrahamic religions— it’s also in the Hindu culture and the Chinese Confucian cultural order (filial piety).
[deleted] 6y ago
2018 translation of this:
Misogynistic hate speech
RPLawyer 6y ago
literallyhitler
HoldDatCrew 6y ago
It's not just religion that is Patriarchal, humans are inherently patriarchal. TRP is purely natural state. Men are naturally and inherently TRP, we've just been brainwashed There is a reason men are physically stronger. I can almost guarantee that archaic human societies were patriarchal, there was no way a female could question a male brute, he would just smash her skull with a club.
jewishsupremacist88 6y ago
as an ethnic/racial jew ive considered converting to judaism precisely for this reason but i really am not a spiritual person. but they have it right when it comes to women and the fags
JamesSkepp 6y ago
You're mistaking lack of matriarchal societies for their failure. What you wrote suggests that they did exist but failed. There were simply no big (having any meaningful legacy or impact on history) matriarchal civilizations on any continent, so it's historically wrong to say that they failed. They didn't develop in the first place.
Patriarchy first arose b/c men were the prime movers of early societies, they earned their position, worked for it - not b/c they understood female nature.
For the absolutely wrong reasons. None of the religions and none of the male followers understand m-f dynamics and female nature as TRP does.
If you compare this to sports it's like TRP is a football team and the religion is a track sprinter. On the surface we both do the same thing - we run fast, that's the gist. The difference is if you put the track sprinter in a football team, he will not understand WHY should he run fast nor he will understand what's the strategy of both teams.
This is what religion did. It gave us some trivial stuff like "whip her for cheating" but it totally failed in the "cultivate masculinity, understand m-f dynamics" role. Therefore religion is BP, not RP. There is no innate understanding there.
B/c we as civilisation need masculine men less and less (less physical work, less wars etc.) and b/c men didn't consciously, deliberately practiced their masculinity. We neglected out sexual strategy, women didn't. Mostly b/c ours is proactive (mentally and physically), theirs is innate.
It's only trainwereck if you want to preserve tradcon as basic form of m-f dynamics in society. Granted, we could and should have chosen a better way to transition away from tradcon, but that would have required TRP (as we know it now) to exist 50-100 years ago. Hindsight is 20/20.
More like last 500 years, if not longer.
James_Rustler_ 6y ago
This is a generalization, I would be very surprised if TRP the sole possessor of the truth between M-F relationships. What dynamics are you specifically talking about?
What do you believe is the better way to transition away from tradcon?
JamesSkepp 6y ago
Third time (with you at least): if you think there is a deep (TRP style) understanding of m-f dynamics in the Bible, cite me some verses.
TRP is not the only one but it has the most complete picture. There are others who have partial knowledge. Evo-biologists, evo-psychs, psychs, PUAs, selfmade big time players (pimps, rockstars ect.), naturals who pursue women relentlessly, most likely some anthropologists and sexologists.
If it was a conscious, deliberate choice - soft/toned down version of TRP in highschools and above (requires some cognitive abilities to understand that you should not do xyz just b/c a woman wants you to or told you to), masculinity lessons (TRP style: being proactive, striving to be best, leadership, gym), un-shaming sexuality and bringing it to public debate on effects of gender dynamics on other areas. Legalize prostitution. Diminish the role of state/law in marriage/divorce. Legally require both genders to use contraceptive until both parties agree they want children. I could probably go onto some sci-fi ramblings from that point on.
Taipanshimshon 6y ago
IMO
AKA- sounds like they knew better than we do now.
JamesSkepp 6y ago
They had the trivial rules (how much religious or secular philosophizing one needs to come up with "you should not cheat on your spouse"?) they didn't have the understanding behind the rules. Parroting these rules without understanding them (and worse of all, believing the rules themselves are the explanation b/c "it was how all our ancestors did it") lead to weak men we have now.
Your argument is pretty silly, twofold.First: New Testament has little content about astrophysics besides 3 kings being led by a star. Does that mean they knew more than we do now?
Second: if you think it doesn't contain much info about m-d dynamics b/c men back then knew it, than why are you also saying "different ends, different means"?
Taipanshimshon 6y ago
If you want population control/ control of a population you invent religion. At least it’s one of the ways
If you want to get laid - you observe and come up with what we call trp.
So yea. Apples and cars.
But your mileage may vary
James_Rustler_ 6y ago
I would argue that the prophets (thinkers?) who wrote this stuff down had true understanding. Then a certain percentage of the population truly understood, then the rest followed. It's the same way today. There is a small percentage of people who are thought leaders, and the rest follow what they are told is society's ideal behavior.
JamesSkepp 6y ago
Sure, cite me some Bible verses that explain AF/BB, hypergamy, how attraction works, how female imperative in society works, what are the traits of alphas an betas, how to be masculine, shit/comfort tests, how to maintain a relationship/marriage and so on and so forth...
ThePlayfulDom 6y ago
He said the writers understood it. They would essentially have to have understood it to a large degree in order to come up with the rules. They weren't just lucky guesses. They didn't write down the detailed explanations in the bible though, because that's not what the bible is about, and because it was all fairly well known stuff back then. We ALL understand male/female dynamics on an instinctual level, which is why it takes endless propaganda to even partially confuse us. When it comes to man and woman there is nothing new under the sun. Indeed we've only gotten dumber with time on this front. I'm an atheist, but it's pretty clear to me that they had a good grasp on this stuff back in the day.
JamesSkepp 6y ago
Actually what happened is that back then they had masculine men that earned their position and formed patriarchy by competence, so they set the rules. No understanding needed if you hold the power to enforce the rules.
So far I have not yet seen any evidence about ancients understanding m-f dynamics as TRP does.
What kind of "understanding to a large degree" one does have to have in order to come up with "don't fuck my wife" or "don't cheat on your husband"?
Most people I disagree with here claim otherwise. Or both in some cases.
The problem is, as usual you all treat Bible like "ancient wisdom" - that's magical thinking almost - the enticing mystery of deep ancient knowledge or other Ancient Aliens-like material.
Pandaren-monium 6y ago
why don't you check out redpillchristians
JamesSkepp 6y ago
I did a while ago. I did now too, again, not much has changed. (Most likely) BPs larping the real RP by reading quotes from the Bible and discussing how to be a tradcon man.
Their idea of sexuality (and probably other things related to RP) is like edging masturbation. They play with themselves b/c it feels good, but they don't want to blow the load b/c that's a sin and "they believe in hell". That's their sexuality in a metaphor.
It's almost like they are afraid to cross the ethical/moral barrier that is required to fully embrace real RP (the pill offered by this sub). The compliance, the fear and unwillingness of trespassing on someones ground (physical and mental), the avoidance of conflict, the communion (pun intended) of intellectually/spiritually patting themselves on the back. Ugh...
As for the Bible itself - there's a thread about your favourite/best quotes. None one of the quotes is RP. At all. All of them have to be deliberately interpreted (almost misconstrued) as redpill AFTER one swallows the RP first. B/c the real RP shows you the underlying mechanisms you've been told to ignore. The quotes presented are just users pretending Bible is a source of RP knowledge. It's the other way around. RP comes first, before Bible (ignoring the religious stuff for now - the content is not an explanation of hidden dynamics, it's the opposite b/c Bible is a source of rules for the masses), before god (submission is not RP, lack of falsifiability, lack of meaningful connection to RP). Only after that can one go back to Bible and try to interpret the passages as RP.
But I know, and I strongly suspect they know it too on some level (hence the tiptoeing around the RP), that it's just forcing the RP interpretation on the Bible, which is not that hard since Bible is written in a way that can be interpreted a lot. It's mental gymnastics. Same thing can be done with Harry Potter books.
It's like kids playing home: they saw adults doing adult things and they are pretending to be adults by pretending to do adult things.
Finally, if you're really RP - you would want to eat the apple.
[deleted] 6y ago
They do, but of course being it religion and having it to be mainstream they wrap it in nicer concepts and words.
JamesSkepp 6y ago
Find me a religion that promotes masculinity in the form TRP does.
Find me a religion that explains m-f dynamics and sexual strategies as TRP does.
Rian_Stone 6y ago
Ideology tells you what you 'should' do
Praxeology tells you what effects your actions have.
thats why no one will find a way to answer James.
Taipanshimshon 6y ago
different ends, different means
like saying " find me an apple that is also a car"
JamesSkepp 6y ago
The title of this post suggest a connection, as does mml76gs's reply.
Taipanshimshon 6y ago
I wasn’t talking to him. Talking to you.
James_Rustler_ 6y ago
The bible promotes true masculinity. (Abraham was the alpha male, had multiple wives)
It's modern religion that is unknowingly feminizing young men. There are older guys at my church who lived TRP lifestyles, ones that TRP would love, then settled down, but still live active lifestyles.
JamesSkepp 6y ago
Cite verses that say how to be masculine.
According to the book that says he lived 170 years. He also PERSONALLY spoke to god. Credible source. We either take Bible literally or as a metaphor of sorts. Regardless of which you chose (and you can't take both) - something here doesn't add up in every case.
Abraham had 2 wives: Sarah and some other chick AFTER Sarah died. He remarried.
I'll repeat my argument from above: even if we take the multiple wives at face value (assume he was polygamous), Bible lacks explanation behind it.
I now a plenty older guys who lived TRP lifestyles and had nothing in common with church. In both cases TRP connection (or lack of it) to church is incidental.
Nobody but Muslims gives a serious fuck about religion anymore, and even Muslims slowly begin to look at Islam as yoke not a proper guidance for 21st century society.
ex_addict_bro 6y ago
I personally like the part when a whore washes Jesus' feet with her hair. This still has to happen to me BTW.
James_Rustler_ 6y ago
Lesson: Knowledge, strength, and wise counsel brings victory
Lesson: Enjoy the process. Suffer and persevere through your work.
Lesson: Don't give up when things get hard. Stay on task.
Lesson: Don't lose frame by becoming angry. Listen first and be careful with your tongue.
I will admit that Christianity is not required for masculinity, however, I am proposing that the bible itself does not promote soy boys, but modern culture and modern Christian culture does. King David and King Solomon were philosophers and alphas who had many wives and fucked nations up in battle. Christians look up to these people but admittedly the majority of us don't follow their example.
JamesSkepp 6y ago
You chose weak quotes, there are better. On top of them being pretty generic, b/c the quotes you chose have to be interpreted in your favour. Anyway - the gist is - if Bible is about masculinity or m-f dynamics, so is Star Wars. That's how much of masculinity/m-f the authors had in mind.
Maybe so. What I see in this sentence tho, is that whatever criticism of religion you're willing to accept must not touch the ultimate source - the Bible.
Out of how many other married men?
No they don't. What would Jesus (who was a soyboy with no frame of his own) do, not what would King David do.
Chaddeus_Rex 6y ago
Greco-Roman Paganism. Or Scandinavian/Slavic Paganism (very similar).
JamesSkepp 6y ago
While I meant modern, existing one, I can't deny your first example has (at least) superficial masculinity built into in in the military.
Chaddeus_Rex 6y ago
Superficial masculinity? What do you mean?
Greco-Roman paganism has the 'purest' form of masculinity built into it - that of strength, courage, mastery and honor.
JamesSkepp 6y ago
If you google "Greco-Roman paganism" (which I did, b/c I have no idea what's this all about), you end up with Wiki link to choose from Greek religion or Roman. I chose Roman, skipped the religious practices bs and went to practical applications below.
https://tinyurl.com/y7du732p
Superficial was a bad word, what I meant was "at least on the surface, perhaps actually too".
Halitenina 6y ago
I'll approve it this time, but automod doesn't allow shortened links as a rule.
JamesSkepp 6y ago
I got a message like this before about not using goo.gl, thought it was google specific.
I'll switch to archive.is
a_strategos 6y ago
Religion was essentially psychology before psychology existed. The stories teach lessons that people need to understand. For example, Cane and Able. Able sacrifices and good things happen to him. Cane does not work as hard for his future and is less successful. Envy follows and he strikes down alpha Able. There is no punishment. It also teaches that siblings do not love each other unconditionally. All valuable lessons to early man.
However... We can't forget that a lot of it is horse shit. Islam and Christianity are full of crap. A lot of the teachings are also stupid. And of course religious wats have been stemming from both throughout history and still today with islam.
markdumte 6y ago
The problem with organized religion is the promotion of faith, blind believe. A lot of the ideas they promote are valuable life lessons, but behind there is the need to have faith, to believe in a father figure. And that is such a huge emotional pull that it is too easy to abuse by the hierarchy of the organized religion.
I really don't have a problem with people believing in god in an independent way, but organized religion always seemed wrong to me.
NitroDen 6y ago
When you hold power of people, bad things happen. A lot of the bullshit in Islam and Christianity is to maintain this power, or through the corrupt ideals and power-hungry attitudes of its leaders, who were far from altruistic. Otherwise, it has some basis in reality
sssimasnek 6y ago
Someone's been watching his Petterson
DarkWhale___ 6y ago
You know what? You’re right. I’m from immigrant parents and I was basically RP’ed since birth. I’ve always looked at Western women as unworthy of commitment and way too over sexualized. Unfortunately trips to the mother land reveals that this nasty brand of women is being ideologically exported around the globe. Patriarchy is failing everywhere.
Ardekan 6y ago
I have a background similar to yours, and my dad constantly says that Norwegian girls (where I was born) are great for fucking but not much more.
[deleted]
ideserveall 6y ago
No muslim man with self respect would ever consider marrying a slut. They would rather kill their daughter to prevent her from dishonoring the family. Can't get more RP then that.
NitroDen 6y ago
Thats wrong,first of all.
But yes. There is no greater shame in muslim culture than marrying a whore. Except fleeing from battle, or......some other stuff
mylifeisfitness 6y ago
Absolutely. Women & young girls back home idolize Western women's lifestyles, believing it will bring them joy & happiness. Though that is far from the truth. They end up just losing themselves within this world.
DarkWhale___ 6y ago
Yeah they can’t resist the temptation to do wrong when there’s all this validation for it everywhere around them. What’s shitty is that giving them a degree of independence is good but they quickly take a mile after given an inch. They don’t get a skeleton or two, no they build an army of them. Too bad so sad not my problem anymore.
askmrcia 6y ago
That's simply because all the positives are displayed in media. Yea I guess whoring around, being free and liberated looks amazing all across different media platforms because the consequences of those actions are never displayed.
We don't hear about the thousands of single post wall career women that can't find any good man. All of us see that through experience, but you won't actually hear about it on the Huntington post.
outsider-outside-out 6y ago
They all end up being an anti-depressant addict with bunch of fuking cats.
NitroDen 6y ago
Its much harder to be a bitch when you have far fewer options.
GoCleanYourRoom 6y ago
Or when you get stoned to death for being adulterous.
alphabachelor 6y ago
No need to stone. I have no appetite for bloodlust. Just treat as damaged goods and avoid.
haskayn 6y ago
Exactly. Damaged goods is a good enough deterrent. It atleast helps you focus on quality women if youre looking at LTR.
alphabachelor 6y ago
Plus the mob can be wrong. Can’t reverse six feet under.
haskayn 6y ago
That mob mentality is a bunch of insecure losers, too busy judging others rather than focusing on themselves.
NitroDen 6y ago
Is your purpose to be adulterous? Or find a good looking B*tch and make her yours for 50 years by her understanding her place? Unless you want to have sex with as many different people as possible, sex on a very,very regular basis sounds very appealing. Sex in an abrahamic marriage is part of the culture. In western society marriage is just a way to be cucked for 90% of the time and ''get lucky'' the other 10%. A muslim/jew man can net it every night unless the female has genital problems. Because he gets it when he wants. Alpha AF.
But western women feel so fucking entitled its impossible unless they let you, which they only do after they have manipulated you and made you ''earn '' it. Sex in marriage isnt something you earn! IT'S A RIGHT, and it's something simply not present in western societies anymore. When the sex dies, the marriage dies.
This goes both ways, although a man stopping his woman from sex regularly is a very,very rare thing
Chaddeus_Rex 6y ago
I'd much rather have multiple good looking bitches for a few years than one bitch for 50
EDIT: But I agree with the rest. Sex in marriage is indeed a right, that is why 'martial rape' makes no fucking sense. By getting married you agree to have sex on demand, amongst other things. In fact, in Islam, having a wife refuse sex is sufficient ground for divorce and ostracisim from the community.
retinaguy 6y ago
I’m so glad you wrote this write up. Western ideology is devoid of firm epistemological footing and so the society is sliding down. Unfortunately most Muslims have bought into western material success and are happy to go down with them.
CC_ee 6y ago
Having your wife submit to you doesnt mean youre alpha. Women are a small percentage of the alphas life.
GoCleanYourRoom 6y ago
If you get married and dont get sex its your own fault. Thats not a fault with society thats a fault with YOU. You arent giving her the gina tingles enough for her to give it up. You dont have any entitlement to have sex. Women owe you nothing. ALL sex has to be "earnt". To say that sex is a right within a marriage is incorrect. Just because you are married it doesnt give you free access to sex. If you arent getting it then you are the problem, assuming you didnt marry an asexual.
I dont disagree that wester women have become a problem. But acting like a tyrant is not a feasible long term solution. Having your wife spread her legs because of fear of being hit is not the same as her wanting you and freely fucking you like a porn star.
You really think that there arent plenty of jews an muslims that dont get laid within their marriages ?
Borofill 6y ago
Spoken like a real cuck who has no idea how woman operate
sweetleef 6y ago
Nice idea, but harder in reality. The "tingles" are a mechanism for pursuing the goal, namely, to secure the committment. Once the committment is secure, no more need for "tingles" - talk to men who've been married for a few years, or who've had kids, the stories are distressingly similar.
TheReformist94 6y ago
Get lost with this. It's not always the mans fault when sex dries up. all resources have to be earnt. You don't put up,no resources and you fuck someoneelse
[deleted] 6y ago
Oh yes? But the females will state, holding their foreheads high, that many things "within a marriage" are a right they have.
To begin with, being paid money to just be there, or, as one told me days ago, "while she actualizes herself".
It won't cross their mind that they have to "earn" anything. All is due.
Chaddeus_Rex 6y ago
That is certainly the case now. It was not always like this. Previously, to get married meant you agreed to have sex on demand with your husband/wife. Sex is viewed as a 'duty' in all of the major religious texts. However, our current modern society fucked this up.
mylifeisfitness 6y ago
I disagree. Speaking on the basis of a religious monogamous marriage, it is not only expected, but it is actually looked forward to by both parties; and as NitroDen said, it is completely a right. Secondly, it is Islamically incorrect to beat your wife, instead there are proper ways to handling marital disputes that affect sex, such as the man sleeping in another room for a few nights. All in all, if you don't 'get sex' as you said it falls upon you because you neither prevented such a marriage, nor acted in accordance to handling such a test. But to say the man is the problem is exactly what society whats you to believe.
samurai96 6y ago
The way you talk, its no wonder your civilization is collapsing in on itself.
I don't have time to play games, I have frontiers to expand and knowledge to gain, do you really think I'm going to wait for permission to take what is rightfully mine?
If YOU do not have the manhood to claim what is yours then another will come who does.
GoCleanYourRoom 6y ago
Take what is rightfully yours ?
Ha, ok tough guy.
NitroDen 6y ago
Not neccesarily due to fear but rather mutual understanding, in a way.
I agree to disagree. You make very solid points, however.
follow_that_rabbit 6y ago
You are assuming wrongly that a woman could respect a logical agreement.
If A than B
If we are married i have to spread my legs by command.
Fact to the matter is: women don't think like that. Because their mind ain't logical. Too much feelz in between
GoCleanYourRoom 6y ago
Likewise, you have given me something to think about.
DarkWhale___ 6y ago
Better than promoting Western Cuckery
GoCleanYourRoom 6y ago
Western women are over sexualized and not worthy of commitment.
Do you think this mindset is why we are seeing a huge surge of gang rapes and sexual assualt in places like Sweden, groomimg rings in the UK etc , by people from majority muslim countries ?
You an critique the behaviour of women in the West, no problem. A lot of it would be true. But I dont think there are any circumstances where id prefer to live under Islamic rule.
We got something fundamentally correct in the West and need a new generation of men to step up and start acting like it if we are to stop everything falling apart.
DarkWhale___ 6y ago
I was joking. I don’t think stoning is acceptable. I actually think it’s ludicrous that people keep suggesting that it’s common place in the east. So do Muslims, many of them. By the way I’m not a Muslim nor is anybody in my family. I don’t think anyone is advocating that Islam comes to the West. Those rapes are highly over sensationalized by the media (just like all other “rape culture”). Those immigrants don’t belong in Europe. Not because they’re Muslim but because they’re coming from drastically different environments. 3rd world warzones to be specific. A lot of them blame the Westerners love and theft of oil for their predicaments. That’s why they’re violent.
My comment was facetious. In response to your ignorance.
GoCleanYourRoom 6y ago
I wouldnt say they are over sensationalised nor would i say i am ignorant. There was a cover up in the UK and the violence crime and sexual assualt increases in sweden are a fact.
Im not suggesting violent exectution is an everyday occurrence in Islamic countries but it happens more than enough. The Saudis execute around 150 people a year. In Pakistan apostasy and blasphomy is punishable by death and you can find plenty of examples of mobs taking the law unto themselves and murdering people simply accused of these crimes. Blaming the West for stealing oil doesnt explain violence in these societies, it has a multivariate cause.
OPs asserts that Islamic marriages are happier and work better than in the West. I disagree that we should be taking lessons in how to behave from such societies.
[deleted]
pilljourney 6y ago
Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are some of the worst examples, though, possibly the two worst. What I find fundamentally flawed in regards to these arguments is that "Islamic societies" are not monolithic. Taking examples from Saudi Arabia or Pakistan is very different from taking examples from Indonesia or Morocco
GoCleanYourRoom 6y ago
Yes I am aware they are at the extreme end. Id quite happily admit that some places are much better in how men and and women are treated within Islam, but unfortunately places like a Turkey, Iran and Syria have completely regressed within the last 30/40 years.
NitroDen 6y ago
Your enemy getting something right =/= your enemy being wrong.
Looking down on another society to stroke your own ego is ridiculous and insecure. So what if they are inferior to western civilization in nearly every other aspect, they don't have feminist clowns running the show, and thats good!
GoCleanYourRoom 6y ago
I would agree that they have "women kept in line" just not in a way i find palatable
1by1is3 6y ago
What has blasphemy/apostasy got to do with the success of marriage? You treat as if all societies are monolithic and there are no lessons to be learnt from them just because they are doing something else wrong. This is faulty thinking that has led to the current degeneration of western culture. Gender roles are heavily encoded in religion, more so in Islam and Judaism than in Christianity, and these gender roles form the basis of a solid marriage.
GoCleanYourRoom 6y ago
If your culture is fucking brutal and violent towards people who dont agree with it, then you analyse it and then find they have successful marriages, i dont think its inappropriate to consider the culture as a whole when deciding whether or not they are doing something right with regards to marriage.
We had gender roles in the West. We let them slip to the point where women get criticised by other women for wanting to raise kids.
1by1is3 6y ago
You wanted it to be all flowers and smooth sailing so you can call other cultures brutal. What did you expect to happen? Feminism was borne out of it.
mylifeisfitness 6y ago
Extremely well said, I agree. I was raised in an Islamic household and am grateful for the view I have on modern society. Especially for real men that are not afraid of their sexuality, that all share similar goals on RP. Thinking on it now, I am glad the people I look up to aren't engulfed in this negative lifeless loop society has fed us.
Arabian_Wolf 6y ago
Traditional societies imported Feminism in the guise of “Women’s Rights” sadly, still marriage is much better in such societies than most of the Western Hemisphere.
Eventually though...
[deleted] 6y ago
Religions, big scary men from the sky throwing lightning bolts at our asses, exist and have always existed for one purpose only. To scare the other guy into giving you all of his stuff.
"The good old days" don't exist. They're a fantasy. Before men were cucked by their governments they were cucked by their religions. A familial patriarchy was an illusion. In fact, control of religion over the household came through manipulating the woman.
Reading posts like this makes me think people lack historical context.
JamesSkepp 6y ago
That's true. You needed the blessing of the priest to get married. God forbid, pun intended, you neglected to have one, entire society was built upon subservience to priesthood like this.
[deleted] 6y ago
Agreed.
The means of religious control were both overt and covert. As the chief dictators of moral and social conventions they set the stage both politically and on the level of the individual.
Priests and nuns were mainly agents of this moral dictatorship. Don't forget there was an entire schooling system being run by angry, grumpy and misguided women.
Wait...that last bit is still true...
Rabbit-Punch 6y ago
So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
GoCleanYourRoom 6y ago
Youve got several things going on in this post, all which are red pill related but it doesnt seem to form a coherent argument, to me at least.
If youre saying religious society had something good going on, id say you were right. Polygamous societies in general produce much more violent men, so 1 man 1 woman and the religious ethic probably served us well in the past. Evidently it did, considering our culture has survived for over 2000 years
id subscribe to the Peterson type argument that religion and subsequently our western culture evolved out of our biology and culture is an extension of it.
western culture is currently shaking in its foundation, partly due to feminism, partly due to a whole host of other factors. When you try and rip out the ideas/ethics that the west is built upon it is no wonder we are producing a corrupt youth.
Chaddeus_Rex 6y ago
if by 'our' culture you mean the West, the West has been monogamous for the last 150 or so years. Before that, despite appearances to the contrary, most men worth something had multiple wives or had a mistress. It was with the Industrial Revolution that monogamy became enforced and that 'ironically' things began to fall apart.
NitroDen 6y ago
Islam isnt compatible with the west, that isnt what I am arguing. Im saying it has a lil-nice RP youth thing going on and while it has far more other problems than the west, women really isnt one of them, while women are fcking over the youth of the west ATM.
Religion sucks, yeah. But it has some things going for it.
JamesSkepp 6y ago
Saudi Arabia has divorce rates close to West. Cheating is pretty common too.
You're looking at the face value of Islam rules. Look at what actually is happening.
[deleted] 6y ago
Yes, most men are happy if the woman is driven (by various fears) to pretend more than in the West, where they finally can show their true colours, rather than facing the truth about female nature.
What a meager prize that is.
NitroDen 6y ago
Saudi is more ''western'' than you would believe. Trust me, I live here.
A country isolated more like Oman/Morroco would be sensible to collect data from. Saudi isnt the end all be all ''moslem'' country
meaningintragedy 6y ago
Lol. Morocco is probably the less islamic islamic country behind Turkey.
NitroDen 6y ago
I couldn't come up with another example :[.
Something like Bangladesh then? I really don't know. The only classic muslim country left is NOT saudi, its Oman. By classic I mean sharia,no excessive love for americans or blindly changing beliefs, no war, no terrorism,strong basis in education and science, and moral beliefs pertaining to equality and fairness. Oman has it all.
rdpislove 6y ago
I live in morocco and can confirm that we are only muslims in books
[deleted]
1by1is3 6y ago
Peterson said culture evolves out of biology? Maybe I missed it but where exactly does he say this? Because this is some quackery and I doubt an intelligent person as him would say anything like this.
GoCleanYourRoom 6y ago
I think you know what i mean. Alot of his lectures, particularly the biblical series, go into great detail about how he sees our biology influencing mythology which in turn influences our culture. If you go on the premise that western civilisation is built on the back of judeochristian mythology, then our culture is in part an extension of biology.
1by1is3 6y ago
As far as I know, he was saying that men and women are different because of biology, not cultural patriarchy as many feminists say. Otherwise culture is more influenced by geography than biology.
Also, feminism has arisen out of western culture and is part of western culture, people can deny it all they want but it started here in the west and not somehwere else so it's a product of the west.
And to be honest, in my opinion modern western civilization is more based on Greek and Roman ideals than Judeochristian, as Greek and Roman ideals were shunned when JudeoChristian way of life was common in the west. But as Peterson is a christian, I don't mind him exalting the JudeoChristian heritage, because everyone does it.
Finally whether you agree or not, Islamic principles are pretty much red pilled when it comes to women. Patriarchy is exalted, men are expected to be leaders of their women, and women are expected to obey men. Loose women are not tolerated and shamed/punished. That's pretty redpilled. They have other downsides but in matters of marriage and women, it's as RP as it gets
Chaddeus_Rex 6y ago
Its true. Biology influences how people think, behave and act not only on an individual level but also on the level of the entire society.
1by1is3 6y ago
True if you are talking about males and females as separate groups, but the biological (read hormonal) differences between men and men or women and women are of no statistical significance.
Also, I don't see where Peterson said any such thing (except when he was talking about the difference between males and females)
Chaddeus_Rex 6y ago
You can't be serious...the hormonal differences between men and women are immense...they influence just about everything from brain structure to behavior to choices.
I saw it in numerous videos. Can't tell you which though because I don't remember.
1by1is3 6y ago
You didn't read what I said, I never denied that there are hormonal difference between men and women, infact I was not even referring to that..
I denied that there are any statistically significant hormonal difference when you take a group of men in one geographical area and then compare that to another group of men in another geographical area. So the biology is not the cause of differing culture.
Chaddeus_Rex 6y ago
Ah. I missed that part. My bad.
What Jordan Peterson means is that our biology is what first created our culture and accounts for the similarities between cultures. What creates the differences is geography.
MoDuReddit 6y ago
Bullshit, you're just reading the tea-leaves searching for what you want to find. I'm sure you'll also find plenty of things religion got wrong, such as making statues is punishable by death, mixing fabrics is punishable by death, or making a drawing is punishable by death. Is this any venue to extract meaningful information? I think Lord of the Rings is a better source of random stories than Abrahamic religions.
NitroDen 6y ago
Hence the title. Religion got ONE thing right. I never said it was right. I agree with the Lotr point, but you cannot discredit what is due, even if it is little
MoDuReddit 6y ago
Absolutely. I'm just saying that religions (some) getting it right means bugger all.
GoCleanYourRoom 6y ago
Then you havent understood any of the Abrahamic stories. There are deep human truths buried in them.
To take them at a first read and dismiss them as fantasy writings of a primitive people that can teach you nothing, is foolish.
MoDuReddit 6y ago
Perfect description. I already read 2 Abrahamic religion books. I was not impressed. Not being raised religious helps.
Hltchens 6y ago
Yeah. No. Sorry.
Abraham OC religions are based on scarcity mentality. Because women literally were scarce. This same text makes even more sense when you consider that and look at it through the BP lens.
Sorry but religion is BP. Period. Submitting to a higher power other than yourself is beta mindset. Nah. Not buying it.
[deleted] 6y ago
I agree with this, religion is one big cope as far as I'm concerned. You don't need the rules of marriage or religion to get a female to act like your wife if you have your shit together even remotely Here we know what women's true nature is and that doesn't change, no matter what society religion or construct they are in. I think the problem is that men aren't true to there natural state. A man in his truest masculine state demands submissiveness from his woman and leaves if he is unsatisfied. The sad reality is that a majority of men are chicks with dicks and don't know how to take control
NitroDen 6y ago
I get ur Ultra-Alpha attitude, I really love it. Its inspiring. But this really isnt the place to get philosophical. Whether a higher power exists or does not exist, or whether the belief to this higher power affects us or does not, modern ''religions'' are more of a cultures that share a belief, and we observe the phenomena they possess in contrast to our own, which is lacking in the female understanding of their role. I'm not advocating for religion, merely comparing
Hltchens 6y ago
The belief they share is in a higher power.
fatallimboaccident 6y ago
Islamic societies have very few flaws in my eyes. Other than the fact that they're our sworn enemies, they are pretty much perfect in every way.
gthing 6y ago
Yes throwing acid on women's faces is so alpha! /s
RPLawyer 6y ago
Modern Islamic societies are mostly war-torn shitholes. Their only thing that allows some of them to keep their head above the water is oil. They thrive in destroying everything around them, which is why the last big technological and cultural advancements from Islamic cultures date from about 1000 A.D. That is 1018 years ago. Ten centuries. One millenia.
There is no way you can reasonably claim that Islamic societies have very few flaws.
warsie 6y ago
only some modern Islamic societies are ear torn shitholes.
fatallimboaccident 6y ago
I was only joking. Didn't think 'islamic societies being perfect in every way' would have been took as a serious statement.
RPLawyer 6y ago
Well, this position actually exists in left-wing circles so I thought you were just a soyboy who slipped into the sub. Also, Poe's law: when something becomes so ridiculous that its parody is mistaken for the real thing.
fatallimboaccident 6y ago
Leftists being lenient towards islamic societal values is really a thing?
It would seem to me that the progressive left is farthest away from islamic tradition (treatment of women, view on homosexuality, etc.).
ThePlayfulDom 6y ago
They are, in what they espouse publicly anyway. Which is why their alliance with Islam make no sense on its face. Once you accept that the left doesn't actually believe any of the nonsense they tell their followers though, and is only interested in power and controlling language, it makes perfect sense. Though I usually try to avoid politics here as we're a diverse bunch, and I don't really begrudge anyone their opinions, even if I think those opinions are batshit crazy. Hell, I doubt there's a human alive, including myself, that doesn't have at least a few batshit crazy ideas, so whatever.