TL;DR - Money is only Status when it is earned in the right way and spent in the right way.
I think it is well established that what attracts women is looks, status, money and game. Looks is well established and we have some bros who think looks is everything (oddly enough, blackpiller and successful RP men who have focused on improving their looks).
We have Game. You can read the books and you can watch the short-lived series "The Pick Up Artist" where Mystery schooled some pseudo-incels and you are left wondering if it works. In my opinion, it absolutely does. Game is part of a "Pentumvarite" or maybe "Quadrumvarite" (not nearly so cool, but let's discuss) of what you need to score women in either the short term or the long term.
What I want to talk about in this post is the divide between money and status. In the SMP and RMP, I think guys get really confused about this, so here it goes.
At its core, money screams BETA BUX
At its core, status screams ALPHA FUX.
Money is straight forward. It is how much wealth you have, how much provisioning you can give to your children and wife.
"Status" is a lot more elusive.
Some concepts:
Alpha Bux are only Alpha Bux if achieved though Alpha means. All other rich men are Beta Bux.
1) Alpha bux are entrepreneurial.
Partially true. Because guys know how to manage their guys does not follow that they know how to manage their women.
However, as a class, entrepreneurs are more alpha than work-a-day professional.
It is rather unfortunate that the most Apex males turned out to be high beta males who got lucky.
2) Alpha Bux are Playboys.
I suppose I could simply end this part by saying "Hugh Hefner". That would be misleading given his decrepid state and the VAST SMV difference in his current squeeze.
But let us look at Dan Bilzerian.
Trust fund baby with a nice physique who leveraged it it get great internet fame with crazy parties.
EDIT: My point is that you should have an income stream that is "interesting" and spend some of that on things that are "interesting".
A bored pussy is a dry pussy. Being interesting makes them wet.
Edit 2: Sports and entertainment fame that garners you lots of money is also Alpha Bux. I didn't mention it because that is only a few thousand men out of hundreds of millions.
Jontai_karachi 6y ago
Elon Musk is one of the wealthiest and known entrepreneurs of the world...yet he still fails with women.I think that being Alpha is as Rollo said a "Mindset" and that Looks, Status, power and money are here to re-enforce that mindset but that doesn't mean that when you have them all that you are Alpha with women. You have your achievements because you're "Alpha" in those achievements...it doesn't mean that you're good with women.
Entropy-7 6y ago
As a note: sports and media stars who pull coin are in a class of their own.
The126thConquerer 7y ago
A wise man once said “money may make panties drop, but it’ll never make them wet”
VasiliyZaitzev 7y ago
Money, in the right hands, is a Force Multiplier.
Money, in the wrong hands, is plunder to be taken.
That is all.
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TheTrenTrannyTrain 7y ago
Goddamn it, money doesn't scream beta bux for fucks sake. Are you really going down the TRP newbie road of "I don't want to be rich cause women will see me as BB, better be a 4ever broke musician living in skid row and have pussies."
To quote Illimitable Man: "More money means more opportunity, more opportunity means more growth. Money is the single most powerful non-sentient object in existence; it is a decimalised measurement of objective power that each and every life needs to continue to exist."
You've fucked up if you don't know how to use your money wisely.
RedPilledGodEmperor 6y ago
exactly. I don't get this type of thinking either. I want to be rich, not so I can get a bunch more woman, but so that I can do awesome shit and not depend on anyone for money. It opens your life up in ways never thought possible. Rich people live in a different world and see it differently.
I also want more money so that I can live on my own and it makes logistics that much easier, than if you have roommates.
Entropy-7 7y ago
I didn't say anything of the sort. What I am saying is that using money to attract women will attract the wrong type of women for all the wrong reasons.
Awes0meApple 7y ago
Seriously, people on this subreddit always say money is beta. this is complete bullshit. you should always strive to make as much money as possible. they probably need a reason to justify why they dont make as much money as they should and to make themselves feel better because they aren't as rich as the "betas". pathetic.
TheTrenTrannyTrain 7y ago
Male hamsters.
I make good money and newbies can all go fuck themselves if they tell me if I want to be more alpha I shouldn't make so much.
Entropy-7 7y ago
I am overstating the case to make a point. Money is clearly a path to freedom but using money to get women is not the best choice.
Gozsayin2 7y ago
Not Tru women are drawn in by money aka power, it's a great tool to get women. The trip is only pretend to spend money on them but never really doing it.
TheTrenTrannyTrain 7y ago
You're not overstating, you're making things up.
Tell me, is Christiano Ronaldo a BB because he's only a soccer player and not an entrepreneur? Fuck no, he will forever be more alpha than me or your sorry ass.
Entropy-7 7y ago
He's a sports star which is another class of its own. Even in high school the jocks were more alpha than the math club.
I'm not making anything up, you are cherry picking a case that I didn't specifically mention.
TheTrenTrannyTrain 7y ago
And
Yeah, your local mom-n-pop grocery store owner is more alpha than Jamie Dimon
WolfWiz 7y ago
Law of averages, being able to read women; being able to seduce them with conversation easily, knowing there is always tons of more punanny out there so never any worries. It is when a male wants to possess the female rather than understanding feminine passive aggressive ways and banging them until the drool on their pillow. :) But that said, Age is the equalizer... those famous last words I wish I could do it all over again with females and go back to being 15 years old in HS. :P I would have been a more of a whore from day 1 What can I say. <eg>
amedeo_modigliani 7y ago
And do you know what is even more important then status? Looks. If you have ugly face and 5'5 figure, you can have status of God and money of Bill Gates => still dry pussy. Imagine Danny Devito. Now you are broke criminal with Aspergers, no game and no frame, but 6'4 masculine figure and face of young Brad Pitt => she will lick your cum from the floor.
Entropy-7 7y ago
This is out of scope but I will address it. Looks are important but it is not the be all and end all. In my travels I have seen fat men score. Some brothers here will tell you how short men score.
Maybe you fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch face first on the way down. Now pick your sorry ass off the ground and get back into it!
amedeo_modigliani 7y ago
No dude I'm opposite: over 6'3, chiseled face with beautiful blue eyes. Sure fat or ugly guy can "score". But he will never get that kind of animalistic sex women get you when your looks are 8/10 or more. Most of the men WILL NEVER experience this kind of sex. Sure girl will blow her favourite rock star but it is NOTHING compared to blowjob by a girl who adore your looks. You see, when you have money or status, girl will fuck you as a means to get something from you. But when you are attractive (8/10 and more) she will fuck you just because she is attracted to you. Now go practice your game so you can be good beta bux one day!
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Gozsayin2 7y ago
I have to disagree just because you have alot of money doesn't make you beta bucks. You can be richer than richy rich and still never spend a dime on a girl they will still swarm. Women just have to smell it. Aka if you flash money it brings you almost instant status.
epictetus_irl 7y ago
Every single woman I speak too will ask these questions within 30 mins
Husband hunting check lists.
Best answers:
I wash windows I take the bus I share a houseboat with 6 people
ezmsr2ez 6y ago
I get what do you do for work and what school did you go to a lot and yes, just like you I tell them I'm broke and don't have any money.
simpleafk 7y ago
Money wont be able to buy you everything. It can't buy you game and how to make women fall for you. I have friends that are quite wealthy but they have social skills that is equivalent to a rock. They love to flash and flex their money to cover up their insecurities.
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Unboundaries 7y ago
Never been asked this before in my life.
epictetus_irl 7y ago
Maybe women don’t see you as a potential provider. This can be good or bad depending on what you want
[deleted] 7y ago
How old are you? Are you built/jacked?
I recently had a great conversation with a cute 21 y/o at my burrito joint....# close, she declined to meet up....but I saw her again, with her boyfriend this time, a week later....she came up for refills, we chatted, and she admitted I "charmed" her. Didn't talk jack shit about my job.
For contrast....this woman far closer to my age, 45, was kind of stalking back and forth in the courtyard near my deck (I live 1/2 flight down, and have stairs that go up to a courtyard with a pool). I went to talk to her, and she asked, pointedly, what do I do? Three fucking times, bitch please, I'm assessing a threat to my property and you're vetting me? GTFO.
epictetus_irl 7y ago
Early 30s, high salary, new car, own property and yes I’m in decent shape.
My answers work because it’s obvious they aren’t true based on how I dress, carry myself etc and women respond to a challenge.
It’s amusing that every woman has the same questions yet they all think they’re the first to ask them.
It’s only women 28+ who ask these questions. Young women just want fun
[deleted] 7y ago
Thanks for the reply....the absurdity of your answers are perfectly calibrated.
It's no longer shocking how straightforward Provider Hunters can be.
Hjalmbere 7y ago
The thing is you don’t notice if you’re not aware. It barely registers as ”Why the fuck does she want to talk about my boring job?” to the blue pill guy.
jamesbond8181 7y ago
The blue pill guy takes it as interest.
[deleted] 7y ago
All I know is when gaming women, thier interest in my finances gets an immediate next. Lift more, rinse repeat.
Entropy-7 7y ago
Attenuate my friend, to balance your value agains their desire.
If you are a banker who likes novels, then you are a literature enthusiast.
Never lead with your BUX.
If you have $100million from banking but your buy high art, then you are are and "art collector", not a "banker"
[deleted] 7y ago
Nice.
I'll tell you what, if I was leading with my bux I'd have gotten laid more in these past two years. I'm a dyed in the wool beta provider.
Fuck that noise. I'd rather go without than have a bitch fuck me because she thinks she's getting anything other than a good time.
That said your point on balance is a good one. Worth ruminating on. I'm catching thier attention with good looks and can hold a conversation with about anyone... but that balance of value vs desire isn't trivial.
Might not seem it, but this was a useful exchange.
Entropy-7 7y ago
The "sniff test" for Alpha is if you offer no material benefits when they fuck you.
lilgreg1 7y ago
Ding ding ding. This thread is now closed.
[deleted] 7y ago
Yep. I've devoted a year to stamping out provider behavior and getting in the best shape of my life, influenced by this sub.
Entropy-7 7y ago
Light a candle. Everything you read here I had to learn first hand through 30 years of dealing with women.
[deleted] 7y ago
Let me provide you a bit of color. I'm the spawn of a 2nd wave man hating feminist junkie cunt. I married first in '95, as everything was falling apart....my mother was dying, my grandmother was dying, and this woman was the first woman to embrace and try to pull out masculinity.
We divorced over my infertility. I married another woman in '05, 10 years younger, I met her at work. Kind of a fucked up girl, but she really looked up to me. Still does, but I wasn't happy being married to her. SMV/RMV mismatch....I was a lot higher. But damn, she was loyal.
I got laid off and rode the Great Recession out in college. Worth it, career path is more or less set. I met a much younger woman, 20 years younger than me, and absolutely fine....JAP, sweet face, big tits, child bearing hips, wicked smart (4.0 in her undergrad theoretical math degree....smart girls have supercharged hamsters). I was 39, she was 19, and she lived with me through her undergrad. We broke up with a lot of love when she went to grad school.....we had a great 4.5 year run.
That led me to Blackdragon & TRP. I mean....what the fuck just happened? Holy Christ, what a ride. So much here made sense from my point of view......as a grown ass man who's been in LTR 90% of his adult life. Hypergamy, AF/BB, branch-swinging, Dread Game, all of it makes so much sense.
Sorry to bend your ear....but I've said many times, there's a real split in this sub between spergie young guys and old guys who've seen a thing or two.
The_Chiselnator 7y ago
Personality is important. Do you dominate? Are you dominant?
Attitude is important: Are you easily frustrated by shit other people do and signal your frustration to everyone?
Physique is important.
Status is important. But you know we have a lot of material about social proof right here.
But even more importantly are you a man on a fucking mission doing things you want or are you doing this with your sole objective being to get women?
I am not sure your job matters that much. It could be a result of an Alpha mindset or it could be just something you did. Let me tell you something: I have known men who could dominate and kill 3 combatants in close quarter combat, ripped like hulk and able to withstand severe stress in the battlefield for weeks on end but end up owned by a 200 pound fugly dependa back home who is fucking everyone in the vicinity. Don't let occupations fool you.
[deleted] 7y ago
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Entropy-7 7y ago
It is a dog's breakfast and at this point I can't put one above the other. But if I did, I would switch 2 & 3 because as I have aged, my body is not what it used to be but my game is better than ever.
tempolaca 7y ago
Women give 2 shits about your dick and only appreciate your face if you are a thin soyboy. If you are shredded, the uglier you are, the more they want to get fucked. As long as you are tall.
justgotalpha 7y ago
“the uglier you are, the more they want to get fucked. As long as you are tall”.
Dude are you fucking kidding me!!
Most women dont like ugly face guys They think about their genes as repulsive Yes you can get a hot body by working out but Thats something that anyone can!! you still ugly in the face!! Who wants ugly babies!!
Im 5”6 and and became attractive by working out, strict diet ,drinking lots of water, a stylish haircut that goes with my face and i have fucked women 4 inches taller than me ....most people stare at me for longer than 2 seconds and mostly everywhere i go im the most good looking guy in the room!! Do i sound arrogant i dont care!! But i hate when people here say “oh looks dont matter guys as long as you are tall you will be fine”
chrisname 7y ago
I'm a short, thin guy with good looks. Wtf are you telling me?
Idontlikeredditors6 7y ago
Dude, height doesn't matter as much as people think it does. Tall guys say it does because it let's them lord over other people, short people say it does because they're insecure. Really, so are the tall guys, but that's neither here nor there.
Women use it as a shit test because 99% of short men are ridiculously insecure, it's a fool-proof screening tool.
I will say this- if your height matters to you, it will absolutely kill your potential with women. Stop giving a fuck what that dude thinks about whether or not women want to fuck guys that are x height. There will be women who pass you by because you're short, and some women will pass you by because they like or don't like beards. It doesn't matter. But no woman is attracted to insecurity.
Also, for people who think looks are the end all be all: you're thinking of extremes. Very few people are unfortunate enough to look like Danny DeVito and none of you look like Brad Pitt.
Think looks are the end all be all? Do a Google search and look at what Mystery looks like. Or what Neil Strauss looks like. Then go ahead and compare the notches on your bed posts.
tempolaca 7y ago
First of all, you cannot measure your own looks.
Second, if you are short and thin, you don't have good looks, sorry.
chrisname 7y ago
Fine but explain to me what you said about uglier jacked guys getting more pussy. I'm wondering if my gains are going to make it harder.
tempolaca 7y ago
Girls love a masculine face. I, as a man, regard a masculine face as ugly, I don't like it. You need to be masculine, not ugly. Women rate ugly and good looks way differently than we do.
chrisname 7y ago
Sucks for me, I have a babyface. My dad looks good at 60 though so I guess I'll just do what I can in the present and bide my time.
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miller211 7y ago
Oh, I thought Dan made his money through poker ????
hopscotchking 7y ago
Honestly, he’s what Antonio Esfandiari calls a POW - pay off wizard.
Dude calls too many bets when he knows he’s beat. He just has a bankroll from his trust fund.
IwannaFocus 7y ago
Your mistake is that you categorize too early without really having enough experience behind the belt to back up your statements.
Not all entrepreneurs are more alpha than the rest of people with same earning potential - I'll go as far as to say that majority of them can't be categorized in that bracket. Not all entrepreneurs are willing to play the big game, or do high risk/high reward moves - people like that are a minority. Majority of them tend to be risk-averse, and invest only in products they absolutely know will make them money - they do not take chances. A lot of this carries over to the game and women. Honestly, I think we should be more careful with the way we are willing to put certain professions higher than others.
I don't really subscribe to your notion of professions that are either alpha or beta, but if I had to choose a profession that sets you up nicely, it would have to be something in the sales. I find it frightening how much sales experience can help you in the game, and how much game can help you in the sales. What makes sales so good is that it's 100% practical, it deals with human nature, it creates environments that mirror social Darwinism (strongest, most successful survive), and that it is very cutthroat. It's very hard to not get red pilled in an environment where you're forced to compete with your peers in professions like sales. There's no room for BP fantasy that is "believe in the good nature of humans", it's a very Machiavellian climate that teaches you early on that humans (men and WOMEN) are inherently selfish etc.
To move on, I do want to discuss a bit about Money and Status a bit. In my eyes, Money > Status. Status is impressive, and it does indeed attract women and potential, but it lacks the versatility money bring to the table. In good hands, money is a versatile potential that can make anything happen so long as you are willing to use them properly. It's also very hard to lose Status with a lot of Money, but easy to lose Status with close to none.
To give an example
You can have a high status in a club for example. You are on top, chicks dig you, you get opportunity to meet a lot of people and befriend them (which is the reason I chose to categorize it as potential) etc. But the moment you leave that setting, and you're not well off, you're diminished in the status game.
A rich person on the other hand, who dresses well, is well groomed and is basically radiating success will not have this diminished game. If he's new and walks into the club, women will notice him. Yes it's true that the first thing in their minds will be "beta bux - gotta claim him/ensnare him etc", but what few people have talked about in this sub is that, he can play around that. If she plays ASD game, does that "we're not having sex till after 3rd date" bullshit, you just move on - and a lot of times, they will open up because in desperation sex is truly the only thing left they will have in order to claim that high value man.
With that said, I do think this is a piss poor example now that I've written it down, but I do hope you get my point here. In short, I do not believe that it's Money vs Status. I believe that it's all about potential, and from my point of view, money can grant you more potential - assuming you have a head on your shoulders. That is not to say that Status should be neglected though.
Unboundaries 7y ago
I've fucked women who had multiple rich millionaires chasing them, giving me all the cake, and making the other rich fuck work and wait, and of course never getting anything. They told me all about it. Showed me all the texts. Have plenty of screenshots of them being total babies. They're needy and pathetic and no money is changing a bitch of a male into not a bitch of a male.
I'm not rich, or jacked. It's called knowing how to connect and communicate. I'm serious when most of it is just how you make her feel. I'm serious. Money can't make her horny for you. Neither can muscles unless she's dumb as dirt. It's all mental and emotional stimulation when it comes to women.
When it comes to sex women could not give a FUCK about how much money you have. It's all mental persuasion and tact. Money won't get any legs around you that you'll really want around you. Money can't buy you happiness.
[deleted] 7y ago
Muscles work with smart women too.
Entropy-7 7y ago
At the risk of attracting trolls I will give you this. Maybe you don't like Asian girls but set your prejudices aside and admit that most men would consider her an 8 or a 9.
Her father was some sort of businessman who was willing to disown his girl if she married a guy who didn't earn as much as him (at current exchange rates that would be cresting six figures). As the hypergamous woman she is, this worked for her . . .and yet it didn't.
In bed, after the fact, she would complain to me about the rich old men her father tried to set her up with . She admitted to fucking some of them as a starfish. The crazy thing was her definition of "old" which was basically my age.
As for me, I shifted gears and "settled" for a farm girl half-plus-seven with a 19 BMI.
Her? I dunno, I think she is still on the market. She is pushing 40 but still looks 20-something. If you are 50s or 60s and in good shape and looking for an Asian trophy wife, I'm willing to make the intro.
Unboundaries 7y ago
The thing with asian girls is they're just so vapid that--that alone almost makes the sex dry with a lot of them. If an asian girl isn't at least a 8, I usually don't even bother approaching or doing anything with them. They try too hard to fit society's mold for them, that they end up just being batshit crazy trying to garner approval from people, and they really seem to have no problem lying to try and fit a mold either. A face for everyone. It doesn't help the parents try to steer their pretty asses into what they want either. I'm certain they have the lowest average self-confidence and self-esteem of anyone on the planet. If you think she'd tell future partner's about her thing with you, that's never happening. More pride than water on earth. I personally think most all really hot asian girls in America are sneaky liars but that's maybe just me. The thing is they always seem to have rich dudes chasing them; not saying they'll sleep with someone behind your back but they have those branches ready to grab on to if it falls through. I can totally see why you'd settle for someone else, that's for sure.
Entropy-7 7y ago
Jesus fuck man, there are 200 million dating aged women in China alone. Don't be so AWALT.
Many will play with their fucking phones and I hate that shit.
About 90% marry up by age 24.
Keep in mind that I am dealing with Asian girls in situ while you are dealing with them in America.
halfback910 7y ago
I mean...?
Not really. I've owned my own business doing consulting in my field and was pulling a decent amount. I stopped. Like anything else, being the capitalist vs. the employee is a cost-benefit analysis. There are drawbacks to being the capitalist:
1: Risk. If the business tanks, the employee brushes himself off and moves on to the next job. The capitalist has lost everything. That's WHY capitalists get to collect their 5% forever if their business is a success. They took the risk. That's fair, but it's something you need to consider.
2: Heavy lies the head that wears the crown. Employment just gives you money. Ownership gives you responsibility. There are things you need to worry about that you probably don't care about. When I was doing consulting on the side, I had to manage my own finances and accounting. Hated it. If you have employees your responsibility increases that much more. A lot of people think they have what it takes to look someone they've worked with for 10 years in the eye and tell them they're fired because times are tough. Many fewer people could actually do it.
3: Your options are simply more limited. I don't have capital tied up in a job. I can leave whenever I want, virtually. But if you own a business, you have investment tied up there. You can't just walk away or you risk losing that.
Entropy-7 7y ago
Risk-taking is sexy. Women love that shit.
I'm not saying it is the best play for everyone, but I am stating it as a fact of nature. Women love the players who win.
Otherwise, I agree with you. An entrepreneur is someone who thinks working 16 hours a day for themselves is better than working 8 hours a day for someone else.
chrisname 7y ago
Taking on risk and responsibility to achieve something is pretty much the definition of leadership. In the animal kingdom the alpha is the member of the group who leads the hunt and fights the leader of opposing groups of animals. He has all the risk and responsibility and that's why he gets to eat the best food and fuck the best bitches.
halfback910 7y ago
It's a calculation. Taking a 1 in 100 chance for a 2 to 1 payoff is simply a bad bet.
If you only look at successful entrepreneurs you're hitting a TON of selection bias. Most new businesses fail quickly.
chrisname 7y ago
Sure. What I was getting at is that taking calculated risks and being responsible for others is alpha behaviour.
halfback910 7y ago
Taking calculated risks is economic behavior. We all do it every day. Right?
What if we simply don't want to be responsible for others? I currently manage two employees directly and a bunch via dotted line internationally. It's torture. If I could get similar pay with nobody answering to me I absolutely would.
Sure, power SOUNDS glamorous. Until you have it, imo. Then it becomes a chore.
chrisname 7y ago
I'm not saying it's good (for the individual) to have power, just that being willing to take the risks and responsibilities of making decisions for a group is alpha behaviour. The alpha of the lion pride would probably be happier as a subordinate. Only 20% of male lion cubs even make it to adulthood, and then they have to spend it fighting other male lions, killing babies and ambushing large prey. Many of them get killed by other makes, who then kill their babies and take their females. Getting lioness pussy probably isn't even worth it, from what I've seen on Nat Geo they just kind of stand there impatiently. They do it because they have to. Because they're alpha males.
halfback910 7y ago
Fair enough. There's no way to escape misery ultimately.
Entrepreneur? You have to deal with clients. Employee? Gotta put up with managers. Manager? Gotta put up with employees. Executive? Gotta put up with shareholders.
chrisname 7y ago
Looks like the shareholders are at the top. Best way to get money is to inherit it.
halfback910 7y ago
Most shareholders are banks who have more shareholders and account holders to answer to. But yeah inheritance would be lovely.