Yesterday I had an hour long conversation with my LTR about her lying about the timeline of when she dated her ex

Lying should be a dealbreaker. If she lied you can't trust her. So arguing about it is dumb.

Women just don't learn. Women won't change. She'll accuse you of being nosy to distract from her lying, and then she'll just double down on that.

Still, I see how I lose frame here and I would like to do better. It’s not just women, I hold grudges against everyone, and it is very hard for me to move on when people do me wrong. But I would like to do better.

I feel you on this. When someone does me wrong, they are dead to me. There is a narrow window in which they are allowed to apologise and make amends, but they never take it.

If you forgive someone, they will do it again. As you probably know by now.

So, what I'm saying is....... just accept that if they do you wrong they are a shitty person, won't change, and will do it again if you let them.

It’s just that I have this aggressiveness within that I can’t seem to let go off and I need to express either through words or violence. I lack emotional regulation and no matter how hard I try I am always stuck in my “get back” mode

But you can't get back at your LTR. Women just can't / won't feel the shame and regret and responsibility that you want. Your mistake is thinking that you can enforce and change her into someone who takes responsibility, feels shame, and won't lie.

That is not a woman.

How can I do better?

Some elements of this will apply to you: https://www.trp.red/p/mattyanon/1053

But fundamentally, you need to understand that arguing with a woman is pointless. As has been said many times, arguing with a woman is like playing chess with a pigeon: it throws all the pieces on the floor, shits on the board and declares itself the winner.

This is because women do not argue logically, they argue emotionally. They try to win emotionally. That means talking about a whole load of shit that is nothing to do with what you're talking about until she wins either by force of emotion or wearing you down emotionally.

Why? Because that's the world she operates in. That's how she gets things done with other people. You can get much more out of people if you manipulate them emotionally..... if you engage them logically then the best you can hope for is a fair trade. If you engage emotionally you can utterly dominate many people and extract a lot from them. Especially if you have tits and the infinite society forgiveness that goes with them.

What you do with this information is up to you, but fundamentally you do need to understand how women work.

Don't argue with them. Tell them the problem, AND THEN ENGAGE NO MORE. To win emotionally you need to be winning overall. That means you need to be the one who is prepared to walk away more than she is. Soft next. Walk away. These are the things that register with women as significance. Your logic is noise that can be drowned out with emotion. But you walking away and her being terrified of losing you: those are emotions that work.

If you can't walk away, if she knows you'll stay, if she's not afraid of losing you then you have already lost and no amount of logic can save you.

The real issue is that you care too much about information that doesn't affect you.

In this specific instance, the timeliness for when she dated her ex has no relevance to you whatsoever. So it doesn't matter what she tells you. Her words are just a silly little girl's game, and you treat it as such. You should act the same way as if your 10 year old sister told you the exact same thing.

Of course, it would be much different if she was cheating on you, or cheating on somebody else with you. Then you would be right to be upset.

Think about it like this. Would Jason Mamoa Leonardo DiCaprio care about one of his girls' dating timeliness? No! He would just bang them for awhile until he gets bored.

To fix your issue, you have to reframe the world first. Separate information that affects you vs. Info that doesnt.

Women don't care about facts man.

If you're dealing with one who doesn't have the humility to give a shit about being transparent the correct response is to terminate your relationship with her

Arguing does nothing. They will lie and gaslight you if you're not good enough at arguing and if you are too good at arguing they will shut down because their ability to weasel out of it is vastly outpaced by your instincts to blow past it

The correct response is to cordially correct them and ask about something of importance and if they give you substandard explanations you leave and don't tolerate that

At the same time I don't know why you made this specific question to her a big deal in the first place as you should have already vetted her story a long time ago and shouldn't have escalated it nearly this much

First of all you need to feel disgust at your failing to keep your cool. This is just not how you want to be. A man is supposed to be in control of himself. We all fall short sometimes but if its a regular failing, you need to address it.

You need to be on top of yourself if you are going to get on top of a lying woman. The moment you lose your cool, you make her feel both aggrieved and afraid. You also fail to reason as well when you are angry. You stack the odds against yourself by being angry. You also make the subject toxic to return to in future. See it as a case of being a better interrogator if you get the skill of self control.

Finally try to care a bit less about it. Its tends to be either insecurity or over investment in women -usually through shortage that causes men to care too much about if they lie. If your cat steals form the table when you are not looking you don't get all worked up because -that's cats for you. Women lie too about their sexual pasts. That's women for you.

There is a neediness in worrying too much about the honesty of women. It is right to worry but to worry to the pint where you are all messed up inside is to give her too much worth and power. A lot of the time the anger comes form a sort of self loathing. You are angry with yourself because you feel trapped by the amount you value her. You are angry that she is not what you need her to be to value her that much. Its not just her you are angry with its you too. Its important to see this comes forma lack of self worth.

We all do this to an extent. We all want women to be better than they are to make us more secure but when you let it get on top of you, you always lose and you don't address the real issue -you overvalued her, probably because you undervalued yourself.

Finally spot this happening before it does and put some space between yourself and your anger. This will all still be there tomorrow if you want to talk about it then. You might even be able to get her to tie herself in more lies if you keep cool and ask some related but not direct questions that will trap her (though its best probably to leave it right alone). I point this out because in the moment of your anger this is something that will actually matter when staying cool otherwise looks unattractive.. You gain nothing by doing this now. If you can't create mental space create physical space -go somewhere lese, do something else.

Just shut up. There is no one scoring your "victories" for a trophy.

I'm not saying you should not care about lies and getting passed behind. But bitching will not alter the past. Make a decision(leave or forgive) instead of an argument.

Yesterday I had an hour long conversation with my LTR about her lying about the timeline of when she dated her ex. I tried to make it about “I just don’t like being lied to, I don’t care about your ex or relationship it’s just that when you volunteer information about people in your life, I would like you to be truthful”. I went as far as taking her phone and making her give me her phone and open messages with her ex to PROVE to her how she’s lying to me.

Called her a liar and said some uncool things

What exactly were you hoping to accomplish?

Because I'll tell you what you did accomplish: she learned to hide her deceit better and to be a more effective liar.

Think about what your goals are. If a particular action doesn't move you closer to your goals, don't do it.

It’s just that I have this aggressiveness within that I can’t seem to let go off and I need to express either through words or violence. I lack emotional regulation and no matter how hard I try I am always stuck in my “get back” mode

I can’t seem to let go off

I need to express either through words or violence

I lack emotional regulation

no matter how hard I try

I am always stuck in my “get back” mode

Stop that.

How can I do better?

Read up on frame.

Asks how to stop arguing with women. Then…

I am very big on starting arguments with women.

I want you to think about the title and your statement.

That being said, if it’s about this specific woman, let’s talk the lying. At least in the west, most women at that age have been total sluts for at least a phase, if not most of their adult life. And despite the posturing about how “past doesn’t matter”, they know to hide it. Trickle truth and small lies are some of the ways they do this.

In this case, she probably dated (read: fucked) this guy more recently than she originally said. So that it would look like she had a period of no sex between the ex and you, and it doesn’t look like she’s getting dicked down all the time. If that’s not the case, let’s me know.

If it’s about lies in general, there is also the option of just not dating her. Women will all lie to some degree, but if this one is really doing it way too much, just drop her, it isn’t worth it. Up to you though, we don’t have her side of the story or details of other lies.

Edit: I’d also like to add OP. You are considering getting into a multi year relationship with a woman who is 20 years older than you, for a green card. She said she would pay for your ticket, but then didn’t. And she is lying about her past. There are enough issues that you’ve been posting on here about fights and frame. And this woman is American, among the worst national origins for girls around the world (likely to be fat, feminist, entitled, slutty, and on social media).

Clearly you’ve been having issues with her. Are you really sure dealing with her for 5 years is worth it for the green card? It might really be, but you might want to think about it. Would you want to spend 5 years with her, given what you know so far?