28M virgin, 178 cm . Finally started getting dates but unable to move beyond first.
I used to be a huge lurker back in 2019-20 on original Redpill subreddit. And learned some. Read the rational male , book of pook, sidebar numerous times and had been trying to approach women but over 7 years I got 0 dates. I am kinda average looking , slim And of avg height (178 cm). I tried bulking up but I got injury which put me out for a solid 3 years.
Right now, I am 28M virgin, Since I wasn't getting dates irl so, got good photos and downloaded hinge. Got 80 matches of which Managed to score 3 dates. All 3 unmatched after first date and didn't pursue for a 2nd one. Somehow hinge matched me with everyone who's looking for something serious . I don't know if we didn't connect or they didn't find me attractive enough. I tried doing "game", maintained a playful smile with intense eye contact, flirting constantly. I asked them about themselves, made sure to keep the conversation to themselves. Each one of them asked "How many more girls are you seeing", which to me sounded like it's going good as they don't ask this, unless they're attracted. I also maintained high energy, agreed and amplified (like they asked why did you choose this place away from your home , I just said I put on the big map of rhe city blindfolded myself and see where it landed. ( It was just close to her place)
But at the same time, they rejected physical touch, and would not dance when I asked. They also didn't compliment me at all, which sounds like again they weren't attracted to me.
This looks like a constant pattern, I am able to get first dates but no escalations beyond that. I have not able to meet anyone without apps in the past 7 years, approaching hasnt worked and I am not sure how to proceed as a virgin at almost 30. Please help me out.
TLDR (through gpt):
28M, average-looking, virgin. Spent years consuming Redpill content and trying to approach women IRL with no success. Recently switched to Hinge, got ~80 matches and 3 first dates, but all ended after the first meet.
On dates, used playful “game,” high energy, teasing, and focused conversation on them. They asked if he was seeing other girls (seemed like interest), but rejected physical escalation and didn’t show strong attraction signals.
Pattern: can get first dates via apps, but no second dates or physical progression. Unsure whether it’s lack of attraction, connection, or approach. Looking for direction on what to change
joyboy 6h ago
Dude honestly if you're getting that many matches and actually going on dates you're ahead of the curve. Im 23 almost 24 and my dating apps completely dried up the second i turned 22. Idk what it is but i guess i'm competing with established 30 yr olds now so it's rough. Just take advantage of what you're getting and keep going on dates to improve. I haven't been on a date in almost two years
First-light 2 5d ago
I am going to suggest what I suggest as a starter to all men in your position and I have some experience. I had never been kissed till 26. I have spent 26 consecutive years in which I have not escaped life with at least one female bedfellow. I now need two hands to count my daughters on and I dream of a female free life.
Practise your general social skills. Practise a lot. These skills are far more important than PUA type skills of high energy dates, so called kino, escalation strategy and so on. These are the icing on the cake that lead to smoother dates and a slightly greater hit rate for skilled PUAs. These things are not the fundamentals that get you laid.
It is like a wannabe athlete coming to me and asking me if he should be running a base run, fartleks or threshold intervals the day after his speed development session? I would say "Do you run an average of at least 20 miles a week?" If the answer is no, then go and run some more, then come back. You need a base before you can have the ability to push the finer points.
Why am I saying the fine points don't matter much? -Because attraction just works. Put a normal healthy boy in a room with a normal healthy girl, allow them to repeat it as many times as needed and at least 1 in 4 times, they will bang if you simply let them keep meeting long enough, the odds may be a lot more than 1 in 4 if they don't see a lot of other boys or girls. Sexual attraction works. Most guys will bang most girls at least once. Girls are a bit picker but they love being courted. Its like a drug to females. It just gets their endorphins pumping like nothing else on earth. If you easily meet the bar for sex with a girl and court her well, she will be delighted to put out for you. She will soon be wishing you would hurry up and bed her.
So if this is not happening for you, its very likely because of how you interact with women. You probably mildly put them off with how you interact and women do need to feel at ease with you to let you nut in them. The thing to remember is that actually you don't have to interact very differently with women to men. You really don't. If you are good enough quality, show interest and apply some courtship, its enough. Flirting is OK at the right time but interest is what really matters as flirting is more of an opener when she is ready to be opened. It is not the key, its just oiling the lock. The key is meeting the bar for selection, clear interest in the woman as a whole (sexually and in her life, not a creepy intensity, just warm interest), followed by courtship.
So practise talking to people for fun. Just be interested in them and their lives, try to give them a good fun conversation. Then take this skill to women and let them know you like them in a way that is not "creepy" or "pushy" (show interest and wait for a signal to show more) Then court them. And you will get into their beds. At first you will be awkward as hell going in to kiss or cuddle. Its ok because if she wants you to, she is happy that you are trying. You will get plenty better at it.
And remember there is only a flashing red light above your head that says "Virgin" if you put it there.
It will go well, if you become someone who is interested in people first and foremost and comes over as warm, smooth in conversation and positive. Practise can make you all this.
The other thing to remember is you do have to meet the bar or nothing you do will help. Make sure you are healthy, well presented, have a reasonable job and a car and house of your own. Great looking guys who are smooth as hell will get women to compromise on these things. Average looking guys who are averagely smooth will find some women who will compromise on one of these, two if the women is bottom 20%. If you are below average in looks or social skills, you will be lucky to get a woman to compromise on any of them. The bar is merciless. Make sure you meet it.
Typo-MAGAshiv Endorsed Contributor 6d ago
I'm betting you mean "skinny-fat". Work on that.
That's about 5' 10" in freedom units.
1) That's above average.
2) height isn't the end-all, be-all that many inexperienced dudes think. It can make things easier or more difficult for sure, but I've known short dudes who slay and tall dudes who can't get laid.
If your doctor has cleared you to lift again, get back into lifting. You don't necessarily have to bulk; embrace your natural build and just don't be soft. I've talked about this before many times on the trp.red side of the site:
https://www.trp.red/feed/status/154641
https://www.trp.red/feed/status/147992
https://www.trp.red/feed/status/155373
https://www.trp.red/feed/status/143355
Are you using AI enhanced photos? Or doctored in any way?
If so, then they're rightfully going to feel deceived and want nothing to do with you.
If the photos are not enhanced in any way, then something in your behavior is putting them off.
Jonah 6d ago
Hello. Thank you for insights. No I am not using any AI in my photos, I look the same as my photos.
Yes I am trying to get back to gym. This is my number one priority as of now. I only weigh 65 kg at 5'10", which is deathly skinny.
This is what I do on dates :
Context wise, I am a virgin. I haven't dated before. So I don't really know what the benchmark of a good date is but I do know if a girl is attracted to you enough, she would not say no to physical touch (like playful) and would even initiate it.
Many girls have done this , like wiping some food stuff off my mouth. Etc. But usually they wouldn't react too well when I touch them playfully. (For eg. They would let me hold hands , when I checked their tattoo , giggling and all) But, then withdraw.
I usually take them for pizzaa/drinks in some cafe/bar. I try to sit in beside them if possible and maintain a dominant body language (like leaning back, arms spread over couch ) but would sometimes lean in when talking to her. As i said in my post, I flirt constantly, usually compliment her eyes and smile, and ask her about herself. They would resist sometimes, smile/giggle sometimes then tell me something. When asked about me , I usually give tidbits but then change the topic back to them , so that they can talk more , and I appear somewhat mysterious (I think I might have FAILED in this). When there are awkward silences, I let it be, and just stare into their eyes , either they look away or stare back.
Once we're done with eating, we go out of the place. Many times girls have voluntarily held my hand after this but then we go into the beach to just walk and talk but refuse to even kiss. Other times ,they don't even go the beach.
One girl I was attracted to the most, she said next day "We are different people" but she was also looking for a long term serious, stable relationship.
I do think I am unable to talk properly during the pizza/drinks, plus the women not being attracted to me might be an issue
Musicgoon78 3 6d ago
Three separate dates is not enough to notice a pattern. Keep going.
When going out on dates are you doing something that you want to do that you find fun? If it's a bland place your date will be bland. Your focus should not be on Game. Your focus should be on fun. It's not counterintuitive but absolute truth. The more game focused you are, the more robotic you will look. That's a fail.
Next is your mindset. I come out of the gate fast and sexual right away. Not creepy, but comfortable with sex and talking about it. If women ask you questions or lean in curiously when you talk about sex, you've got them hooked. The last thing to do is escalate.
Keep practicing. The first couple dates you get are usual going to fall flat. They are feedback. My first few dates after my divorce weren't good. But I wasn't used to dating or escalating. After some practice, you'll hone your skills.
Jonah 6d ago
Hello. Thank you for insights.
Can you help me diagnose my issue This is what I do on dates :
Context wise, I am a virgin. I haven't dated before. So I don't really know what the benchmark of a good date is but I do know if a girl is attracted to you enough, she would not say no to physical touch (like playful) and would even initiate it.
Many girls have done this , like wiping some food stuff off my mouth. Etc. But usually they wouldn't react too well when I touch them playfully. (For eg. They would let me hold hands , when I checked their tattoo , giggling and all) But, then withdraw.
I usually take them for pizzaa/drinks in some cafe/bar. I try to sit in beside them if possible and maintain a dominant body language (like leaning back, arms spread over couch ) but would sometimes lean in when talking to her. As i said in my post, I flirt constantly, usually compliment her eyes and smile, and ask her about herself. They would resist sometimes, smile/giggle sometimes then tell me something. When asked about me , I usually give tidbits but then change the topic back to them , so that they can talk more , and I appear somewhat mysterious (I think I might have FAILED in this). When there are awkward silences, I let it be, and just stare into their eyes , either they look away or stare back.
Once we're done with eating, we go out of the place. Many times girls have voluntarily held my hand after this but then we go into the beach to just walk and talk but refuse to even kiss. Other times ,they don't even go the beach.
One girl I was attracted to the most, she said next day "We are different people" but she was also looking for a long term serious, stable relationship.
I do think I am unable to talk properly during the pizza/drinks, plus the women not being attracted to me might be an issue
Musicgoon78 3 6d ago
You keep on mentioning you're a virgin. That doesn't matter so top that shit.
I get a total lack of confidence vibe from what I've read and the self depricating talk.
Second it's not A woman's job to initiate touch. So stop making assumptions and start having more fun. I can already tell you're stuck in your own head and overthinking everything. The biggest thing that's hurting you is your adherence to rules. The problem with most uncalibrated guys is they don't understand how to make their own mistakes and learn from them and develop their own set of rules and calibration. Keep grinding, keep trying and keep learning.
robert87 6d ago
I'm no expert but this is what worked for me (also lost my virginity at a late age): You might need more practice socializing. If you are socially nervous, at first you might have to be a good actor. Study how to act alpha, memorize it all, and learn to be a good actor and cover up your social nervousness. If you aren't good at socializing just talk to everyone around you, at work, in shops, going for walks. Talk about whatever and try to make witty comments without coming across as trying too hard. Find things that are funny, laugh at them, and comment to others nearby about them. Build your social circle. It might be easier to meet women that will be DTF through people who already approve of you. But even meeting stranger women, you won't likely be very successful if you aren't good at socializing. Try to accomplish things to intrinsically build your confidence and while that is in process learn how to act like you already have confidence. Are you meeting women from a different culture than yours? It's usually easier to get along with women from the same culture as you.
Jonah 6d ago
Not particularly, all of them have been from the same culture.
I am kind of an introvert but I do have some social circle of 3-4 friends but they are guys and nerds.
If possible can you diagnose the problem that might be going on? I know I have asked the same question to other gentlemen on this thread as well, but if more eyes look at it ,I might get more insights.
.
This is what I do on dates :
Context wise, I am a virgin. I haven't dated before. So I don't really know what the benchmark of a good date is but I do know if a girl is attracted to you enough, she would not say no to physical touch (like playful) and would even initiate it.
Many girls have done this , like wiping some food stuff off my mouth. Etc. But usually they wouldn't react too well when I touch them playfully. (For eg. They would let me hold hands , when I checked their tattoo , giggling and all) But, then withdraw.
I usually take them for pizzaa/drinks in some cafe/bar. I try to sit in beside them if possible and maintain a dominant body language (like leaning back, arms spread over couch ) but would sometimes lean in when talking to her. As i said in my post, I flirt constantly, usually compliment her eyes and smile, and ask her about herself. They would resist sometimes, smile/giggle sometimes then tell me something. When asked about me , I usually give tidbits but then change the topic back to them , so that they can talk more , and I appear somewhat mysterious (I think I might have FAILED in this). When there are awkward silences, I let it be, and just stare into their eyes , either they look away or stare back.
Once we're done with eating, we go out of the place. Many times girls have voluntarily held my hand after this but then we go into the beach to just walk and talk but refuse to even kiss. Other times ,they don't even go the beach.
One girl I was attracted to the most, she said next day "We are different people" but she was also looking for a long term serious, stable relationship.
I do think I am unable to talk properly during the pizza/drinks, plus the women not being attracted to me might be an issue
SwarmShawarma 5d ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA70Q06ZJOc&t=849.
No experience
Well
What you think you show is not necessarily what people see, you could sit in front of a mirror and look at yourself, but even then you use with your own eyes
Generally they wouldn't grab your ass. Since it was them looking for physical contact generally you should have escalated (which you should anyway, but that was the easiest moment): kiss, ass, waist, hair grab.... Depends. Whatever her reaction generally should not be taken every seriously. Holding her hand only would fail the test of showing balls.
They should refuse you should try, that's how it is. No kiss, wait go for a waist or lower back etc then kiss later.
You have got learning to do. Learning by socialising and not being good at the beginning.
Bozza 2 6d ago
As others have said, focus on getting in shape. It makes a dramatic difference. The more in shape that you are (mosre muscle, lower bodyfat) the more leeway you get in terms of game.
Dating apps are a whole thing in and of themselves, and there's a science to them. Some of the other guys on here aren't the biggest of fans, but I get most of my dates/lays from them and I've spent an awful lot of time into figuring them out.
You have to think of dating apps as a marketing funnel.
You have multiple steps - Match -> Open -> Message -> Arrange -> Date -> Lay
At each stage of the "funnel" women are going to drop off for a multitude of reasons. But, you need to look at each stage of the funnel objectively and ask yourself where are women falling off, and where can I improve?
If most don't respond to your opener, improve the opener. If they drop off during conversation, make it more engaging. You get the idea.
I'm getting sperg vibes. What I think is happening here is that there is an inconsistency between the persona you are trying to convey and your actions. Women pick up on that shit instantly.
It's not all about hardcore game, A&A etc. That can sometimes be too robotic and inauthentic.
It's a hard balance to maintain, but with practice it gets easier. I'd suggest posting some Field Reports so we can really dive into what went wrong and why.