I’m a 25-year-old guy (my girlfriend is 25) raised in a traditional Iraqi culture. I’ve left the religion and a lot of the social expectations that come with it, but there’s still a part of me that’s deeply wired by how I grew up—especially around women, purity, and what makes a woman “marriage material.”
I’ve been with my current girlfriend for about a year. She has a bad relationship with her father as he always has been phsycially and emotionally abusive, her mom is a successful gynecologist who never submits to a man as the men in her life are pathetic failures. My gf has nonetheless been extremely loving, submissive, loyal, and feminine. I was her first real physical experience ( we did everything but she is still technically a virgin), and I’ve led the relationship from the start. She listens, tries to improve (never repeats the same mistake), obeys, even started therapy when I suggested it. Emotionally, she’s fully imprinted on me. Honestly, I’ve never experienced a woman loving this hard or this loyally. I am her first actual relationship and she is mine. Before the guy she kissed she had only one close guy she used to talk to (long distance) and he fumbled her (by not comitting) and tried to get her back but she blocked him and moved on years ago.
Here’s the problem.
She told me early on that before me, she had one dating experience that lasted a month and a half. She said they kissed, nothing else, and it didn’t go anywhere. At the time, I brushed it off. But recently, I asked more questions. She gave me the full story: • She met the guy (a 34-year-old basketball player—she was 23) at a game. • He pursued her, flattered her, and they went on 15–20 dates over two months. • Around date 5, she started kissing him. • He tried to escalate sexually, invite her over, get physical—she rejected all of it. • Eventually, she realized he wasn’t serious about a relationship (he was going back to his ex in another country), so she cut it off and said she regretted even kissing him. • She admitted she was craving validation and closeness at the time, since her family environment was abusive and neglectful. • Said she never felt emotionally safe or connected as he kept convos shallow that's why she retracted
This is the only guy she ever kissed before me. No sex, no deep emotional bonding. Just a weak phase in her life where she was lonely and got caught up in attention and the fantasy of being wanted. She at some point said that she made it a point to herself before she decided to date him for fun that she would not "touch him" (sexually) or get touched sexually either as she believed that required a deep emotional bond.
Now here’s where I’m stuck.
Since hearing the full story, something inside me shifted. I feel like the fire I had for her dimmed. I can’t shake this thought of:
“She gave something—even just a kiss—to a guy who didn’t deserve it. Someone I would never respect. How could she let that happen if she really valued herself?”
Me personally? I have only ever dated 1 woman and taken her to be on date 3 (that was my first experience) but I never actually had sex with her as it didn't feel right so I thought my virginity should belong to a woman I love, then found my current gf and she wants to wait til marriage (fine by me if I do end up putting a ring on it).
What’s messing me up is that she’s done everything right with me. She’s saved everything else for me, worships me, obeys, and is healing herself for us. She’s even expressed guilt over her past and said she wishes she could take it back.
But I can’t help this gut-level resentment. Like her value dropped in my eyes once I found out how lightly she gave something emotional/physical to a man without commitment, without love, just because she wanted to feel wanted. How poor her vetting was since she retracted only after realizing she won't be able to live out her love story with him.
I’m not sure what to do.
Part of me thinks: “She’s not perfect, but she’s rare. Good enough to build with, especially in this modern world.”
Another part says: “If she did that once, it proves she didn’t hold herself to the standard I need to fully respect her as my wife.”
I’m not trying to be insecure—I just know how I feel. And how I feel is off.
IMPORTANT NOTE: I only started getting this feeling the moment I started considering marrying her (I never thought of marriage before this) now that we are 10 months in. I don't get why I never minded her past and thought it was extremely clean up until now.
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TL;DR: Girlfriend was submissive, loyal, virgin, and deeply in love with me. Only had one dating experience before me, kissed a guy for 2 months, never had sex, cut it off when she saw he wasn’t serious. I only got the full story recently, and now I feel like I lost respect for her and can’t shake the resentment. She’s doing everything right, but the fact that she gave part of herself to someone I see as low-value is haunting me. Is this salvageable, or is it a sign I need to walk?
Hugo_The_Great 3w ago
It's called retroactive jealousy, I have it as well. It only kicks in when you become serious with a girl & emotionally invest.
It's a compulsion and the more you give it attention/feed it, the stronger it (the narratives/negative emotions/doom-thinking) becomes.
You don't ever get over this 100% btw. Just starve the thoughts/narratives until they become less frequent and less intense. Let go of the 'alpha' man narrative you have in your head.
Also, you want your girl to be 'special'. We all do. They aren't. None of them are. They're all whores for the right guy.
Some are just better than others (for you). Her meeting you when she did was just a coincidence. She's not the 'one', she's just the one for now.
Focus on her good qualities, how she treats you, how loyal she is etc and drown the negative thinking, because it will sabotage all your future relationships as well.
Zed_2k 3w ago
I admit, I have the oneitis for this one REAL bad my guy. Logically I know nobody is special and realistically there are hundreds of thousands of men who can make her happier than I can and women who can make me even happier than she possibly can, I know that fact and she does too. However, I think we derive the "specialness" here from the fact neither of us have felt this way towards a person before (and we are both attractive with options anyway). I can tell it's the truth from the way I had to deflower her and how she responded during sexually/emotionally intimate moments where one can't fake shit, it was a side she had never shown to someone ever. Call it coincidence or whatever, but no woman has compelled me to remotely give a shit about her before much less get into a relationship (she is my first girlfriend and I am her first too). You are right, they are whores for the right guy, and I was/am that guy for her (I could tell by the way she gave herself to me since we established a super deep emotional bond even without a relationship back then).
I think you are right, we just happened to meet at the right place and time, but I think she is special because I am choosing her, I can find women who can fuck, cook, clean and serve me better but this is the first one I chose and I like to keep it that way (because I honestly don't enjoy casual sex even when offered easily as I have tried and stopped before). She has said something similar in the past and I can tell she is truthful because when things get rough, she holds onto me tighter not to lose me, even when I got pretty pathetic (sick and lost all my muscles and motivation) she stayed closer and kept motivating me out of the rut, I do the same for her.
But FUCK if my gut is not screaming daily "YOU HAVE ONEITIS"
Hugo_The_Great 3w ago
Oneitis is only a problem when instead of seeing that she's a high quality woman who can improve your life (but you understand that there are more high quality girls), you start to believe that she's special or 'The One'. And as a consequence you start to lose frame because you are scared of losing her because you think she's irreplaceable. Then you start with placating (beta) behavior, start becoming jealous when she's around other men etc.
That's when it becomes problematic.
Emotionally investing, caring etc. is not a problem in itself. And it's understandable that you dislike your girl having a past. We all want to feel special. My current GF was with 27 guys before me and when I found out my initial reaction was disgust, wanting to GTFO etc.
But I didn't because she treats me very well, is extremely loyal, hot, fun to be around and improves me/my life in general. And I made the call that it would be more of a beta move to leave the relationship out of fear of Andrew Tates and the likes shaming me and trouble dealing with my own insecurities in general than to stay.
It just became apparent to me in an instant that obsessing over your girls past is a compulsion that arises out of insecurities and ancient evolutionary programming. It can absolute be a red flag in a number of ways and serve as an indicator of more trouble, so you have to vet properly. But some people, even girls, can change/learn. It also took a great deal if introspection on my part and looking at things I did in the past, treating girls as toys, discarding them when no longer necessary, emotional manipulation (also because I was still immature and didn't know what I wanted) opportunism, etc.
However, she is very aware that the moment I am unsatisfied with her treatment of me in any significant way, I have other girls in line and I'm perfectly fine walking away. That's the difference between oneitis and abundance while being emotionally invested. You can't let your emotions get in the way of your boundaries and expectations.
Zed_2k 3w ago
Well, I have found myself at a crossroads. I can only have ONE "first love" and knowing myself I genuinely believe if this fails then I go back to my life of just having fun and making money, but knowing that I will never love another woman to the same intensity and extent. This is where the oneitis comes from (the fact that I know this is what makes her special) and quite frankly, I can very clearly tell she is gonna be alpha widowed BADLY if I up and leave her, not to brag but on top of being physically attractive and with a relatively good amount of money and skills for my age (people generally need to be in their 30s to be making what I make), I am also extremely good with words, she genuinely looks intoxicated sometimes when we are together and it feels sweet, these are beta traits but I am playing on more of the full package prince charming side than just the "oh he is so bad for me" bad boy side because her past has shown that she gets disgusted by nice guys (shocker) and doesn't give much to "bad boys". All this to say that this feels like such a perfect experience that you only get to have once in life, and it's where my oneitis comes from lol.
Hugo_The_Great 3w ago
I had your way of thinking not so long ago myself :)
About First Love, yes, you can only have that once. But your second love won't be worse. At least, that is, if you keep improving yourself and also learning about what you like/dislike in your current partner. When you get another partner, you are, ideally speaking, an improved person who knows more about their wants and needs. And it's actually quite likely that your relationships/love will be better/deeper.
In regard to Alpha Widow, yes, this exists, but only as a mental concept really. I'd like to think I'm pretty cool and unique as well, and I am. 6'4, six-pack, multi millionaire before 30, 130 IQ and my jaw is like Henry Cavill's. But I'll tell you this; girls don't give a fuck about that shit for 80%. Girls care about swagger, and I'll tell you that if my girl hadn't met me, and she met some other douche right place, right time who rizzed her up, who doesn't have half the 'accolades' I have, she would have fallen in love with him. And this will happen also when my turn has ended. When a girl truly falls for a guy, she forgets about the previous men, and they don't mean shit anymore.
Alpha Widow only applies to women who dated men far far out of their league. And even then, the passing of time will erode those memories, and another dick introduces new happy brain chemicals and that guy will be a distant experience.
You are not special, even if you are, based on many metrics. And the same applies to your girl. Swallowing that pill is the real ego killer.
No-Stress-Cat 3w ago
Seems like you're thinking this one might be too good to be true. You're looking for the catch 22, but the way you describe it, there really isn't one.
She's a virgin. That's amazing in itself in this day and age. She pays attention to what's really there. She sees her parents' dynamic, knows it's wrong, and is breaking the cycle. So, she's kissed a frog. How many pigs have you kissed before the lipstick came off? She seems to learn from her mistakes, and from the mistakes of others around her.
We all know unicorns don't exist, and perhaps you might be thinking you've found one. That would irk the shit out of me too.
Of course, she's not perfect. She's a woman, with all the woman vices they come with. Perhaps she appears to you how one would define innocence. Perhaps because she's inexperienced. She sounds like a vanilla canvass for you to mold into the wife you want her to be, and she seems to be open to you being the one to train her.
Sounds like you have a good thing going here. Don't overthink it too much. Her past could have been much worse.
pofkaf 1 3w ago
My man, you're going about all of this the wrong way. You're on a one-way train to misery. You need to read the sidebar, study TRP, and redirect your philosophy about this relationship and women.
Here's just a few points about what you're doing wrong.
-Your dick has never been inside of this chick, but you're thinking of marrying her. This would be disastrous. Marriage is designed for women to attain a man's most valuable asset (his commitment) without any requirement of her to give her most valuable asset (sex). It's a one-sided arrangement that 99% of men cannot and do not know how to manage in the long run. Get Marriage out of your dictionary right now.
-Do you really believe that this chick went on 20 dates with a high-value man and only kissed him once? C'mon man, get your head out of your ass. They definitely smashed. Multiple times.
-The fact that you're obsessing about the fact that she "kissed" another man indicates that you are not ready for a relationship. An alpha male - somebody who is confident in himself and has many options of women to choose from - couldn't care less about what a particular woman did or didn't do in the past. Why? Because it is a woman's responsibility to show that she is worthy of a relationship. Not the man's. So stop obsessing about it. Go fuck plenty of women.
-She has a bad relationship with her father, and her mother sounds like a feminist from what you've described. Huge red flags.
Again, my advice is to read the sidebar of this forum. Right now. The whole thing. Then go the the gym and learn your newfound knowledge to pick up other women.
Zed_2k 3w ago
See that's the thing, back then when I met her I was totally not into relationships and made it clear to her. It took 3 months of talking and 4 dates but then she agreed to come to my place, back then I had assumed she had done it before simply because she dated before, but I have had an experienced woman before and they moved totally differently. She was very nervous and made lots of mistakes and was real awkward. Even when stuff was going down and I thought she was going to handle my dick well, she absolutely had no clue wtf she was doing, she was literally treating my dick like a clit. Over the past 10 months, I kept playing it cool and just asking tiny questions here and there and her story still held up. I have reason to believe this is her first relationship and the furthest she has gone because she is smart and never repeats the same mistake, but at the same time made lots of mistakes (like sharing family problems, something women here hide from men they wanna marry).
I am not gullible but she is either some INSANELY good actress or she is telling the truth. Also, she didn't kiss him once, they kissed from dates 4-5 to date like 15 or so before she realised he was no good for a relationship.
Zed_2k 3w ago
Here is the thing, I had a whole roster going and I gave zero fucks about what any of these women had done. I genuinely thought I could not have feelings of affection, but after a while I realized I was catching feelings for this one and she was way more innocent than all the others, that made me lose my appetite for any other woman and we slowly got more intimate until 3 months later, I got into my first ever relationship with her.
MrSupreme 3w ago
"She at some point said that she made it a point to herself before she decided to date him for fun that she would not "touch him" (sexually) or get touched sexually either as she believed that required a deep emotional bond."
Cool story sis, you're falling into her narrative of the poor confused girl. Bullshit.She was slutting it up.She is spoon feeding you those little truths like a baby.She probably was blowing the guy every day, getting her hair pulled and everything.Maybe even anal to remain a virgin. If you ask her a few more times she would probably confirm.
Listen, if you really are not ready about that kind of answers, don't ask, fuck around and find out, there you go, it is on you for being curious.Take it, and fix what you feel because she has been a proper girlfriend all this time, and you have no business juding her past mate, ain't nothing you can do but take it.
And last but not least,GET THE MARRIAGE OUT OF YOUR HEAD. You're not deep enough into the relationship for that, wait 2.4 more years before considering her. Will she be this perfect girl in 2 years? How do you know after the honeymoon phase she won't be going back to Tyrese the basketball player?
Get the muslim crap out of your head, marriage is overrated, and it is too soon to be fantasizing about marrying this girl.
Zed_2k 3w ago
Yup, I am going to go away to study a masters for 2 years. If our relationship survives long distance good and well and she stays obedient, then that is good and I will make a move. She said she will wait for me as she believes I am the only person she ever wants to be with and I have positive evidence that she will (her sister stayed loyal to her boyfriend of 10 years because her parents rejected them getting married so her sister now is literally losing her youth just to be with her boyfriend and loyal)
MrSupreme 3w ago
Bud, 2 years is a long time.Sure she will remain "loyal" to you for marriage and provision for 2 years, but don't be asking that kind of questions when you come back, cause you already know that part of her.Dont fool.yourself lile that and accept the truth as it is presented to you.
You're in a bit of denial. Her being still available for you when you.come back doesn't mean she will close her legs for two years my friend.
If I were you, i would cut it before i go away for these 2 years.Tell her I know i won't be faithful.and that I need my freedom for that time, and when I come back we can catch up and see what develops. It is a 1 year girl,not a commitment.
Musicgoon78 2 3w ago
This is your own insecurity talking. You aren't going to easily run into women these days that haven't had a lot of sex with men.
You can get rid of her. The thing is, she did nothing wrong. You just can't get over your own insecurities. That means you're punishing her for your own internal problems.
There's a good chance that you aren't emotionally ready for a LTR.
Trust me, this could be much much worse. Focus on enjoying you time in the present instead of living in the past. You're setting yourself up for a lonely future.
First-light 3w ago
Do you think she physically desires you? I ask because if she went on 15 to 20 dates with a hot sportsman and only kissed him, she is either very strong willed or not very sexual. Does she like to be held and kissed? If you are sure she is just strong willed and determined to be pure but still has desire it is OK -just be ready for life with a very determined woman- but there could be something else here if that is not the case.
I see two unattractive possibilities here based on human nature but neither may be true, just beware of them.
It could all be fine but a thing is often what it looks like and I can those three possibilities
There are reasons why girls are guarded and chaperoned. Its not because men are bad its because women have desire and men will awaken it. Women are the gate keepers. Nothing happens that they don't want.
When it comes to the issue that is consuming you -women have desire. Kissing is a small thing and is really an early relationship thing that seems mostly done to test genetic compatibility. kissing alone won't spoil her for you. You have the possibility to do so much more and when you are old and have been with her for years kissing won't be top of your list or hers for sexual high points. But don't grow old with a liar or a cold woman.
Zed_2k 3w ago
Also, when we were 2 months into the relationship and we were both feeling super high from the honeymoon phase. She almost folded but chose not to, regarding the virginity thing. I genuinely believe any other woman would have folded purely because I was hitting ALL the right buttons and this was showing because she was willing to do ANYTHING for me except that one thing. I think your point is right, that she is stubborn and strong willed and it's one of the relationship issues we have been working on:
I have told her before loud and clear that if you like my lifestyle and choices in life then you be a woman, relax and let me handle things and make the decisions, she has said that she doesn't wanna end up like her stubborn mom who is suffering because of her desire to be independent and she is very aware that women need men (for security) more than men need women. We have had hiccups in obedience before but she never repeats the same mistake and I feel that things are going up between us as she is becoming more feminine and is submitting more over time.
Zed_2k 3w ago
See that's the thing, back then when I met her I was totally not into relationships and made it clear to her. It took 3 months of talking and 4 dates but then she agreed to come to my place, back then I had assumed she had done it before simply because she dated before, but I have had an experienced woman before and they moved totally differently. She was very nervous and made lots of mistakes and was real awkward. Even when stuff was going down and I thought she was going to handle my dick well, she absolutely had no clue wtf she was doing, she was literally treating my dick like a clit. Over the past 10 months, I kept playing it cool and just asking tiny questions here and there and her story still held up, especially since I played the role of a super laid back and sexually liberated person to particularly see if she gets comfortable enough, and while she did, her story never changed. I have reason to believe this is her first relationship and the furthest she has gone because she is smart and never repeats the same mistake, but at the same time made lots of mistakes (like sharing family problems, something women here hide from men they wanna marry).
I find it totally believable that he did not work her up emotionally enough. I am an extremely romantic guy and she has made life so easy for me just because I know the right words to say. Your point about being stubborn and cold is right though, back then before I got her into bed, kissing was pretty easy but she never allowed anything else. Fast forward a few more dates and weeks in of me being and looking like a high potential for commitment person (since I live closer to her and while I will travel, we are of the same nationality), I guess she made the decision to be physical with me.
I am not gullible but she is either some INSANELY good actress or she is telling the truth. Also, she didn't kiss him once, they kissed from dates 4-5 to date like 15 or so before she realised he was no good for a relationship.
As for physical desire, the first time we got together it was like nukes were going off and she was extremely stubborn not to take off her trousers or panties and I barely managed to get her to take off her bra, but we made out for like 7 hours that day, I am not joking. Thinking back now, we actually were onto some virgin shit because I def would not do that now lol (we have had physical intimacy a lot more times now and have experienced being in love). But you are right, she is generally a very guarded person and is super careful about the virginity thing. It's only up until recently am I seeing a more sexual and flirtatious side of her, now that I have engaged her sexually multiple times over the span of 10 months. I am careful about not ending up in a dead bedroom situation and she volunteered that she believes sex is sacred and important too, she once said she would never reject the love of her life and so far she is holding up to that. When in bed I sometimes have more energy left and she still participates even though she is spent. Having said that, I am just athletic and energetic is all and she no longer works out but still keeps up somewhat.
I know what you say about her being physically attracted or not, I have experienced another woman and that woman was a hoe who used intimacy for control points (obviously I booted her quick after a few dates).
I think you are right, my girl is extremely reserved but idk, recently she has been getting super comfortable and I feel the best with our chemistry, it's always top notch now that we have done this several times.
First-light 3w ago
This all sounds positive. Yeah if she is inexperienced at handling your dick and if she indulges in multi hour make out sessions it is very positive for her not having prior experience. Well done to locate such a girl. Even if she has some experience it is minimal and it has not left a mark, so it doesn't really matter. You can write in what you want on the blank canvass.
The stubborn one is a tricky one. Most women turn into their mother don't they? Right now she wants to get wifed up, so what does a determined and stubborn girl do who wants to get wifed up -do all the right things to get her way of course. So she will be playing submissive and feminine as possible. Later this may change. I have found that it normally changes when the children are all school aged. Then she has ended the reproducing mother phase that really needed the protection and support. Then she may want more and more of her own way. By then its way too late to get out without pain.
Now I am not saying run away. I am saying think hard. To give you my credentials, I have had children with 4 different women. Along the way, I have had a christian marriage, an islamic marriage (no legal stuff just the marriage that could be ended by saying "I divorce you" with no legal repocussion or transfer of property), I have had a traditional polytheistic marriage -again no leal stuff- and I have also had children just cohabiting (yeah I have wandered around a bit and seen some of life). What I have found out is that faith and tradition make very little difference as to how a man and a woman actually relate in person rather than in public. I have found out that where you start is not where you end up but the signs were there all along.
One thing I have noticed is that mild weak submissive woman will give you mild weak submissive children. A stubborn woman will give you stubborn children. The ideal woman would be a strong woman who could balance when to be strong and when to submit by having a wise mind that can rule over a very strong will. Most women are ruled by their will not their mind though aren't they? You need to look for signs she is not and test that side out. Don't worry about testing fidelity, test if mind rules will or will mind.
So think on what you want your children to be? Can she raise you good strong wise sons and daughters? If so then dealing with a mare who is harder to ride than some may not be the worst thing you ever did. But if she turns stubborn and cold to you and actually does not have enough warmth and heart, you will be sad and your children will be hard and maybe unloved people.
Forget worrying about the fact she kissed some jock when she didn't know any better. A woman with no desire who is impossible to court is not what you want. A woman should be a little bit harder to get than the average for her culture but not iron hard and unbending or you will be sorry. That is why we do not let our daughters or wives go anywhere and do anything they like with men trusting to their wisdom and restraint. That is not how women work or how we want them to. Good women are not sluts but they are not unreachable either. But do look carefully about how hard she is. Is it the right kind of heard to give you strong wise children? If so go get her. She is a rare find. If its the wrong type that is too selfish and may go cold, with regret withdraw.
Zed_2k 3w ago
Ok first of all I really appreciate your advice man, I always listen to other people's experiences to not make unneeded mistakes again.
Well, the guy she dated she would just kiss towards the end of each date and when we met she was very particular about not wanting a man who was ran through and me being an attractive virgin apparently was positive in her book (I was focused on grinding my early 20s and did not really find women interesting enough to even entertain). She actually is a little harder to get than the usual in my culture based on my experience with women here and seeing what her history was.
Can you please elaborate on will vs mind? What are the signs I should look for in your opinion?
I should let it be clear that we have had a rough patch in the past as 6 months into knowing each other. Her mother is a gynecologist and I was joking around about her being pregnant, she said she would not have a child out of wedlock but that I was the first and last man she is sure she want to have the children of. That took me aback and I told her I wanted to spend my life childfree and that essentially made her extremely sad since she thought that she had finally found her soulmate after not imagining that with anyone and now the most intimate thing one can do with another person is taken away from her. After lots of deliberation, she finally said that she realized she would stay with me even if I was infertile anyway because she never felt like she has had proper love and a family and she considered me the best family she can ask for.
I gotta say man, I am attractive (tall, muscular and making over 10 times the minimum wage of my country) but she appears to be deeply attached to me and in love with me. I know the red pill advice is to avoid oneitis but I think I have a bad case of it for her man, I find myself thinking she is different from all the women out there because during my vulnerable moments (emotionally or physically) she immediately drops everything and makes it her life's purpose to ensure I am back up on my feet, like she would start cooking me if I am sick or even skip work and stay up all night until she was sure whatever was bothering me was resolved and I didn't go to sleep upset. This shit is fucking me up dude, I have filtered through a lot of women but this one is giving me SEVERE oneitis.
Replying to your point about her changing into her mom: Although I think her mom is a pain in the ass, she stayed loyal and dedicated to her deadbeat, violent husband until she divorced him 29 years later when he got too violent. Her mom is an absolute powerhorse and is a super successful gynecologist who built 2 homes with just her income (her dad barely worked and is not protective at all, pathetic). Her sister has also had a boyfriend for 11 years and upon learning her mother did not agree to their marriage, she stayed with that boyfriend in a relationship because she had decided that he was her "first and last love", words my girl keeps on using, she has also stated that if her mom gives her a hard time when she wants to marry the love of her life, she is going to do it anyway because it's pointless to give your life away to old people.
What's your read here?
First-light 3w ago
To me it looks on balance positive.
There is no such thing as the perfect woman You just find someone who you think is worth it and then work hard with them, accepting their weaknesses. Looking for the perfect one is a fool's game because even if you did find a woman who was perfect for you right now and you were also perfect for her, you would both grow and change in different ways. Don't let a bit of prior kissing spoil a good possibility. You could use this thought to help with oneitis -the one does not exist. Don't get totally hung up on this girl but equally don't turn away a good thing unless it does not deliver its promise. She is just a woman, a good one and she loves you. Enjoy her and see what good things she brings you.
Where I see that challenges are in her having grown up with the lack of a good male role model but the presence of a strong and determined female one, when she is herself strong and determined and when western culture (even in a more traditional culture) is always exerting an influence on women pushing them to be selfish and put their wishes above all else. You could come second to her will, especially as she ages. Women generally get less generous and less sweet as they age.
How did her parents argue I wonder? We do learn about conflict from our parents and trying to make sure you argue differently to how her parents argued might be a good idea -if you can find out from her how the arguments went so you can make sure you lead your arguments differently or just stop hem if its going a bad way.
The head ruling the mind thing is a tricky one to answer yes or no. Its not all black and white. We all have our desires and impulses. When you look at adverts on TV, most of them seem to be to get women to want something because women tend to give in to impulse more and exercise mental control less. If she is strong willed, then does she just want stuff strongly or does she exercise good self control and can she consider others even if their interests are contrary? Does she always save money or always spend all she has? Does she spend your money freely or is she thoughtful when say ordering from a menu or choosing an item of clothing you have offered to buy for her? Does she usually treat servants and lower ranking people well, even if they are not fawning on her? Does she unprompted look critically at her behaviour when she has gone too far? None of us are perfect but a pattern emerges over time of if someone is living just through their will or with wise restraint, thought about those around them and the long term consequences of their will.
Refusing sex before marriage will increase the odds of a woman getting what she wants -marriage but it itself has long term consequences -her husband will remember it. He will know there were always limits to her trust in his promise and in what she would do for him.
If you are not planning on having children with her, nothing is too important here anyway. Odds are she will resent you or seek to leave at some stage if you refuse to give her children and if you tire first, then you have no long term tie to her, so you can just walk. If you are planning to be childless, then just enjoy the relationship until you tire of it or she does.
If you are not considering children, to marry would be a very great risk for no gain except access to sex with her. In this case, think seriously about the thing. The sex will be good but it will be only sex. You are not buying access to her genes and years of her caring for your children, you are only buying her company and other women who are less strong willed and more submissive may give you just as good sex and be easier company over the years without the need for you to cave in to her will and marry her. You don't even have to care about a women you are with just for sex's prior experience. She is just pleasing company. If her past experience makes her more pleasing then good, if less pleasing then bad.
Marriage is not needed for having children but it was always designed to be for uniting and creating families. Marriage was not designed as a thing for entertainment (that would be temporary marriage) and now that western influence gives women such power to take a man's money in divorce, its really pointless if you are not uniting and creating families.
Zed_2k 3w ago
You give very interesting advice as all these points are things I have deliberately sought to notice in her in the past. I appear to actually be her top choice and I have noticed she has not experienced much of life. I have taken her to eat sushi for the first time in her life, to try steak and to visit interesting places or explore ideas she never thought of. During every single experience we have, I have noticed that she tends to target the cheaper options and is somewhat conscious of that, even though I have never let her pay (except once where she kept insisting she wanted to treat me to breakfast) it appers that she doesn't really take that for granted. We come from super similar socioeconomic backgrounds but I am obviously WAY more experienced and successful (even though she is like 10 months older).
The whole sex thing riled me up real bad back then as I was thinking to myself "she gotta be crazy to think this shit would work on me to extort marriage, which is something I would only do if it financially and physically makes sense" she reasons that if you wanna get married then it makes sense to wait til marriage to lose your virginity (among other reasons like her being paranoid something wrong will happen if we were to fuck in the dark as our families don't know of our relationship).
I have asked her about the argument style of her parents and have used it before to shut down unproductive argument pathways. One reason I like her is that when I get serious and calmly tell her to stop talking, she does and we can reset, that is important for me, that my woman will always and immediately yield to my control, because if you can't 100% influence your woman, then what the fuck is the point of the provisioning and security I provide?
To this day I am not sure about the whole marriage thing but in our country, there is effectively no other option without having our families literally disown us, so what other options do I have here if I am sure I want this woman in my life? Marriage in my country is really trivial financially (for me at least) but in the west, I can see that a woman walks out with half your fucking shit and still be entitled to alimony?? In my country she is only entitled to an amount specified during the damn engagement and I think this is how it should be, I agree with you that women are emotional and not to be trusted with upholding a contract of that magnitude.
I plan on studying in Canada or Europe then settling there maybe, bringing her with is another huge contention point. She has expressed before that she would never move that far without family (I guess that would be me in this case) but for me? Throw me anywhere in Ontario (I have not even travelled outside of Iraq in the past 5 years) and I am really confident I will be fine. My question is: what is your take on bringing a mostly conservative woman from a super conservative environment to a liberal western one and it's just the two of us in there. Obviously I have very strong frame and call the shots on everything (in fact, the way finances would be handled is that I will pay for everything but she is NOT independent at all, meaning she has to hand me whatever earnings she gets if we were to get married and naturally I will hand it back to her after deeming fit that it's the right action, this shows sheer respect and trust on her end) but I am still totally ignorant on the potential outcome of such a move. I know it depends on the woman, but what kind of woman would remain stable and predictable during such a move?
As for your point regarding children, I am not interested in marrying her for sex, but I am still vetting to see if this will be the quality person who will complement my life and serve me on my mission in life. Here is where the oneitis part comes in a bit: I can only have ONE "first love" and knowing myself I genuinely believe if this fails then I go back to my life of just having fun and making money, but knowing that I will never love another woman to the same intensity and extent. This is where the oneitis comes from (the fact that I know this is what makes her special) and quite frankly, I can very clearly tell she is gonna be alpha widowed BADLY if I up and leave her. While true I am not a very experienced man, sexually speaking, but I am super content with her and she is willing to work, so I don't really care for exploring "better" options out there, one funny thing I have noticed is we both hold the mentality of "if this is great then I am sticking to it and am not interested in other options", this is manifested in the restaurants we go to as we only stick to the same exact meal (we usually find the "one" meal after trying one or two before) all the time and this is subconcious I think lol.
I appreciate being able to learn from more experienced people such as yourself :)
First-light 3w ago
It is kind of you to thank me for my advice. I hope it has some merit. I am sure some of it will not be right for your situation but it is good to talk things over with people to reflect on one's situation even if one does not find their advice right.
On marriage; Your divorce laws sound good but remember a person can get divorced in another country. If you make a life in the west and she instigates divorce in the west, you will end up paying western penalties. It might be possible to get out of it by fleeing home and selling your house faster than the lawyers can stop you but it might not be and there is still the matter of of leaving your career in the west. Marriage will be a risk if you go to the west.
Men are made to take risks, so maybe its one to take but if you do, from the start look to what the end might be. Make sure you have property and wealth out of reach of the west and beyond your wife's knowledge. This is hard work to achieve and also makes one feel a bit disloyal but it is only to protect you from someone else being more disloyal and taking the stuff she promised she never would when you agreed to marry her.
I am a little concerned by your wish to be childless and hers to have children with you. This may make for trouble in the long term. Right now she hopes your position will change when she says she would marry you even if you were infertile. I am pretty sure that in her heart she does not mean "OK boss as you choose" Your position may change or her position may but most likely her position won't change and will strengthen from around 30 years of age. Here you are sealing in a potential poison to your marriage if you go in believing that you can be in charge of her feelings and desires. You can be in charge of the relationship but not who she is inside and when she places herself under your charge, it is with the hope that you will bring her all that she desires. That is pretty much the unwritten contract of a marriage form the female side. You are given the girl and with her comes her hopes and dreams that she trusts you to fulfil or at least help her to fulfil.
Innocence; remember that innocence is only the lack of experience. It is not itself virtue. Virtue is the product of choices. Innocence can simply be the product of not having been allowed to choose, being too afraid to choose or being too lazy to try to grow as a person. Right now you are leading her in her gaining experience and this will be very formative but she will also grow into herself. You can't change some internal things. You can give her experiences that help to bring out and firm up certain aspects of her but in the end you can't keep a "child wife" forever. This is not what her father intended when he gave her to you. He wanted her to grow and mature to be a full woman in your care, raising fine children to be a credit to her, to you and to him.
She needs to grow to be a virtuous woman in your care. Along the way she will have to choose freely to be virtuous and here you can't control things as much as you would like. So you have to choose someone you can work with and trust and respect as a grown up, because you can't rule her heart or her inner mind. If children are in her heart, you are doing her a great wrong if you marry her with the intention of not giving her children. She is doing herself a great wrong if she agrees to be married to you knowing you won't give her children. Trust me she will take it out on you later because you led her into something bad for her and she innocently hoped -you see innocence is not wisdom or virtue, only the absence of experience. I really don't recommend sealing a poison like that into a marriage from the start.
Women and the west. I would post a link if I could remember the sketch but a black American comedian said it very well by saying something along the lines of "If you found a girl wearing animal skins, riding a zebra with a bone through her nose (a totally non westernised girl) and took her to a fine home in the west, it wouldn't be long before she was saying "and what have you done for me lately" I have some experience here. I have taken a traditional conservative woman to the west and I have seen the results. It is not what you have done for a woman in the past, its what you are going to do for her next that matters to her. So bringing her to the west will only raise her expectations.
My lady is conservative and very religious. So she has a number of conservative and religious friends. When they meet up they always slag off western women for their immorality. Yet I have noticed that of these virtuous conservative friends, only 2 are still married to heir husband. So it wasn't the upbringing that actually made a difference or the religion, it was the environment. Women conform to their peer group. If the rules of the peer group are "marry as a virgin, die a wife or a virtuous widow" they will want to achieve that. If the rules are "you go gurl, do what you want you are worth it" You bet they will. Finding a circle of conservative friends with conservative wives will help her greatly to mitigate westernisation -because then she is in a more conservative hive. Also being rich enough to be able to keep her from the western workplace will help greatly. If she has to go seek money from western work to get the things she desires to have the same or greater status as other women in her social circle, then she will get more western values in doing that. But remember she will want at least what women in her circle have, so if you can't provide on a single salary what a western household in her (therefore your) social rank has, she will be bitter against you as a loser (and we know how women value losers) and/ or want to work to get it.
Remember innocence is not virtue it is only the absence of vice. Virtue is choosing to avoid vice when you can choose it freely. If a woman has been sheltered from vice by not have the opportunity to choose vice, she is very vulnerable to it when exposed to the west. She has no barrier protecting her except fear of the unknown. The west might even criminalise you if you sought to restrain her from doing as she wished.
Of course there are plenty of virtuous women living happily in the west but they are a minority and her inner character will be a great factor in whether or not she will be one of them.
mattyanon Admin 3w ago
Jesus.... kissed a guy.
Most men are lucky to find a girl with a bodycount under 20.
Get over it my dude.
Also, marriage sucks. You've been warned.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 3w ago
I've heard of guys masturbate about needing a virgin but kiss virgin?
Some men have the most fragile egos on here
Gaurantee she can tell it bothers him and her pussy dried up as the frame crumbled