Is there a difference between probing boundaries and giving shit tests? Also, how can I tell if a girl is trying to "Betafy" me or "train" me to become the beta validator she tries to make everyone around her?
And lastly, how can I enforce my boundaries without having to call her out on her bullshit? Sometimes these little invasions of boundaries or "shit tests" are so subtle that it might be easy for her to flip the script if I call her out on it, making me seem overly sensitive or an ass.
mrust 11y ago
There are many types of tests.
You will get compliance tests (hoops) where she tells you what to do, or under what circumstances she will do something for you. It could literally be something like "make me some coffee" or "hand me that book" or "do a little dance for me"
You will get qualifying tests where she will tell you what she wants or what kind of man she is looking for. The way to fail this test is to agree with her or change your opinion to match hers. The opposite of this is what we mean by holding frame.
You will get boundary tests where a girl will see what she can get away with. Maybe you told her not to put up her feet on the table but she wants to see if she can do it on the chair next to her, etc... You fail boundary tests by showing inconsistency.
You will get frame tests where a girl will accuse you of something: "Where you checking that girl out?" or "You were supposed to call, I was worried about you." Other than compliance tests which are easy to spot (but may sound like reasonable requests), these are the ones that will betafy you the most. Do not apologize for your behavior; own it. Best way to pass these is to Agree and Amplify.
You may get emotional drama where there is no explicit test but it is vitally important that you hold your frame. Here's a video from a recent post where you can see a guy handle this type of test without becoming confrontational. To give a bit of background, Stefan is speaking to a caller and the caller's girlfriend confronts him on the air. I've marked the video to start at the interesting bit.
So the best advice for passing these tests:
As for setting boundaries:
The last is important because it sets up a double bind. If she cannot conform to that behavior then that must mean she is not ready for a serious relationship with you. It's her choice and you are just laying out the consequences (implicitly, NEVER use ultimatums).
kempff 11y ago
Wow. Upvote for turning me on to Molyneux.
rebuildingMyself 11y ago
The last one is something I stumbled upon myself. It works every fucking time.
I was dealing with a nuclear shit test as a guy was hitting on her at work and said something bad about me even though we never met. She actually called me that evening with attitude and acted all high and mighty. I actually didn't talk to her for an entire day (despite my phone blowing up with confusion) and when I did I said "my girlfriend always has my back". I explained how insulted I was that she was taking sides against me when the guy was just trying to get in her pants. She fell right in line after that. Never once did I throw an Ultimatum directly.
thunderboltspro 11y ago
Holy shit this guy is gold!!!!!
SenorPuff 11y ago
I can't say I agree with everything Stefan says/does, but boy does he know how to hold frame.
KyfhoMyoba 11y ago
1)Probing boundaries / fitness tests: Practically speaking, they are the same.
2) If she's got a lot of beta orbiters, then it's a really safe bet that she wants to do that to you, especially if she has high SMV (and yours isn't).
3) You can't enforce boundaries w/o some kind of confrontation. The best way is through/with humor. Agree & amplify. Humor will usually negate the perception that you are overly sensitive/asshole. Amused mastery is the frame/mindset you're looking for, and you HOLD THAT FRAME THOUGH THE HEAVENS FALL.
SenorPuff 11y ago
Shit tests are boundary tests mixed with frame tests. The way to 'win' isn't to call her on her bullshit, it's to pass the test. Literally, you must get past it. If you call attention to it, you reinforce that it has affected your frame.
For the little things, ignoring them in a way that makes it clear that you aren't biting is immensely more productive than retaliating. Sometimes a disappointed glance is all it takes. Getting up and walking away. That sort of thing.
Do you have any particulars to share so I can give a little more insight or is this it?