Disclaimer: I was ushered here a couple days ago, I've read the sidebars and can see why this group was recommended, but I'm by no means an RP expert. Bear with me.
Long story short, I'm a single dad. Three kids, five to ten in age. I'm a charter/private pilot and the schedule I keep is chaotic - calls come in and within the hour I may be in the air. My now ex wife had an issue handling this alone time, began inviting her mother over to help her with the house and kids, and afternoon and eventually morning cocktails became the norm. I came home to find my wife and mother and law passed out more than once, and my children pawned off on the neighbors.
I banned my MIL from my home, sent my wife to rehab and offered her a final chance to keep our family together. She blew it the day I returned home to find her passed out in the bathroom and her girlfriend drunkenly occupying the kids. I kicked her out, filed for divorce and custody and have never looked back.
This was four years ago. Casual dating and attention from women has not been a problem (tell a woman you're a father and, damn, it's game on), but LTRs haven't been opportune. I'd enjoy one for my own sake as well as my children's sake but I'm not going to settle.
My kids attend after school and summer activities at a local church camp and the ladies who run the program are on a mission to see me fixed up and married off, it's nonstop gushing how strong of a man it takes to be a single dad, on and on and on. It's as if I'm pulling off some small miracle raising children as a man.
Several months ago I met a woman who also brings her kid to the camp. She's a number of years younger than me, one toddler, would like more kids (as would I), and left her husband for a similar reason as to why I divorced my wife. She has a decent job, owns her home, seems like a great mom and has long term goals similar to mine. She's extremely attractive and I enjoy spending time with her.
However, when I mentioned I was seeing her the same friends who heap on the praise for my being a single dad couldn't find enough bad things to say about a single mom. In fact, that's how I was steered here. So why the seeming hypocrisy, Red Pill? What about this situation do I need to be on the lookout for?
[deleted] 10y ago
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FlyingRedPill 10y ago
So far they've been shy in the facts department. It's been a wink wink, nudge nudge, "you know single mothers!" style smear campaign thus far.
netgrey 10y ago
If you like her and don't see other red flags, there's no worry. A lot of the warnings against single moms here are for single childless men to avoid them. Secondarily, you want to watch out for women who blow up their previous marriages with their children's father because they are bored and unhaaaaaaaaaaaapppppppy.
If she truly doesn't fall into this trap, and you already have your own children, there's not as much to worry about.
_and_a_PhD 10y ago
I would agree with this with a few caveats.
Take it slow. Don't rush to move in together or get married just because having a co-parent for your kids would be useful. If you make good money, you can afford a live-in nanny. Is this new woman worth committing to versus hiring someone to help with the kids is the question you should ask.
Be careful of "damaged goods" from her previous marriage. You are not her counselor to fix her past ills. Likewise, you do not want to be damaged good to her either. You need to take the role of the leader from the beginning. Be there to listen to her gripes from her day-to-day life, but don't let her dwell on the past. You should never speak of your previous marriage other than in a purely factual manner. It isn't about how she hurt you, it is about that she was a bad mother and spouse so you cut her out of both. Other than talking about the past in purely factual terms so she knows where you came from, you should otherwise bury the past. Likewise, you should make sure she knows that if she is going to be in a relationship with you, that your relationship is about today and the future, not about the shared story of your misery from the past. If you focus on your shared misery you risk becoming co-dependent.
FlyingRedPill 10y ago
I won't move in with anyone I'm not married to or, at the very least, engaged with the date right around the corner. It's not the example I want to put in front of young kids that my bed and my home are a revolving door.
We do have a nanny and that's been great for handling the logistics of being a single parent who travels. She has a room at the house but only stays the night as needed. I don't need the help caring for the kids, but I do want them to see what a healthy relationship looks like. I don't want to settle.
And thank you for the reminder to keep all eyes forward, not looking back. She's not one to dwell it seems and neither am I, but both of us can get emotional and I can certainly get a little shitty when I reflect on the damage the past situation has inflicted on my children.
_and_a_PhD 10y ago
Sounds like you have your head on straight. Go for it and have fun.
LS_D 10y ago
dude, that's a very anachronistic ideal in today's world and esp the world your children will be living in
Just go to /r/DeadBedrooms or read more RP material to see the implicit dangers ... sheesh your first marriage didn't work FFS! ... why should this turn out any differently,, after all, she hasn't had to live with you yet ..... and accept your 'hectic' lifestyle, hmmm?
get a grip man ... she may not want to be 'tied down' or if she does, it could be for all the wrong reasons which you're blind to at the moment! .... why was her partner a drug abuser? That could be kind of important to know ... you know your wife was one! She was unhaaaaappppyy!
in many ways you're an 'older' version of a young guy who's getting oneitis ... maybe ,,,
You keep saying you "don't want to settle'' as though you're trying to convince yourself from how it sounds to me
But then again I'm playing the devil's advocate here, none of us want to ever see another 'good man' go down
good luck buddy
FlyingRedPill 10y ago
I lived with my first wife before we were married. Clearly not a recipe for success. It works for some people and I'm not morally opposed to it, but I'm not going to introduce someone into my children's home as an adult of influence and permanence unless they're actually permanent.
As for not wanting to settle... I'd like to at some point. Absolutely. But I've been seeing this new woman for the relationship equivalent of five minutes - I don't have enough information or desire to make her "the one" yet. As you pointed out, I don't know a lot of the little details, like why her husband did what he did. For my ex wife it was largely the influence of her mother trying to relive her youth through her well funded daughter - who cares if it's the middle of the day?? Drink and spend money! Then the drinking got out of hand and she didn't bother to correct because she figured she'd find a way to get the kids and get the money. Nope...lol
I'm sure I'll eventually get the whole story about the pill popping ex - she's left the topic open for me to ask questions, I'm just taking my time.
LS_D 10y ago
you sound cool bro, and know what you're doing ... good luck, not that you'll need it I hope thiings work out well for you all
[deleted] 10y ago
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FlyingRedPill 10y ago
Women and men. The ladies making comments (though they didn't provide details beyond "you know, single moms") are the women who assist with the camp I take my kids to. They've known me for awhile and have known her for a few months now.
The men making comments are buddies etc. who think I ought to go with girls without baggage. Do they have a point or are they just encouraging a steady stream of plates to live vicariously through? Not sure yet.
RPthrowaway123 10y ago
Honestly this woman doesn't sound that bad, but find out why there is no father in the picture first.
FlyingRedPill 10y ago
Similar to my situation, but drugs instead of alcohol. Prescription meds. He was let go from work after failing to return after medical leave, and although he did have partial custody of their child he moved out of state to be with his parents. He's been gone almost a year now.
RPthrowaway123 10y ago
I know the general logic is to avoid single mothers, but if that's the case then the guy really does sound like an asshole who fucked up. My advice is: give her a shot, see what happens.
-Tyler_Durden- 10y ago
You will never be her #1 priority in her life and you shouldn't expect to be. If you make her a LTR you will have to deal with the crazy ex. It would be best to treat her as a FWB, establish clear boundaries, and know that this relationship has an expiration date.
If you are looking for wife #2 (which you shouldn't be), there are plenty of young single women without children out there. Why add more complications to your already complicated life?
FlyingRedPill 10y ago
I'm not actively looking for wife #2, but I'm certainly not opposed to it happening. I'd enjoy coming home to someone, knowing my home and children are cared for in my absence, and having a partner to share my day to day - my work allows me to go more places than most people can dream up in a lifetime and it's MUCH better with someone on your arm.
There are no shortage of willing, young, child free single women out there but here's the thing; most are more complicated when you look at them through my situation. Example: they LOVE that I'm a daddy and ADORE that I'm a responsible father, but they're not interested in my kids. I get the impression the three I have are a great sign I'm a good guy, but once they've served that purpose can I please ship them to boarding school and have some new ones? My family isn't a practice run for the real one when it comes along. I haven't introduced my kids to many women, but even without meeting them girls compete with them, vying for my affection as if romantic is the same as parental, and some have even gotten downright pissy when family time and issues get in the way of a date.
With another parent it's easy because she's been there and isn't offended if a date sometimes means sitting through Little League.
-Tyler_Durden- 10y ago
You know the situation; trust your instincts and do what will make your life better. Learn from the mistakes you made with wife #1 and don't make them again. With your new LTR, don't commingle funds and don't support her or her child, it's not your responsibility and will take future stress off the relationship.
As with most endeavors in life, hope for the best but prepare for the worst. I hope it works out for you and your children.
As for what I would do: I'd focus on your business and your children. Be the best pilot and best father you can. Any future women would priority #3 and would know that from day one.
FlyingRedPill 10y ago
As of right now, yes, completely priority #3. I barely know her in a relationship sense, it's all very new. I do like that she gets that and isn't offended by it because she's in the same boat.
In the future if I make a woman my wife the priorities will adjust, but I'm not putting the cart before the horse here.
boydeer 10y ago
how many single mothers are there? how many single fathers? women are more likely to end up single mothers "by chance" and have the mindset that they are victims. single fathers more often have to fight the legal system to get their children. it's fairly rare to hear about a sane and stable mother losing her children to a drug-addled abusive father, but seems common enough to hear about such a woman getting at least joint custody. my ex has been arrested 14 times for driving on pills and shoplifting, and she has joint custody of her kid (not my kid, thankfully).
that being said, the red pill is a place where men give advice to men. if i were a woman giving advice to another woman, i would speak in generalities about men. your friends are doing the same; you are a specific person with children, and they are advising you about the generalization of a woman with children.
i agree that in this case, it doesn't seem at first blush that she is a bad choice. however, i would look at:
how does she characterize her custody of her children? is it a burden?
how does she characterize her ex? can she keep her emotions straight while talking about him, or at least change the subject so as to not just dump her baggage on you?
i mean, it's a good bet that she's involved in bringing her kids to a church camp, because she's exposing them to other adult role models and a larger social group, which i think is extremely healthy. also, even though she is obviously independent and competent enough to raise children, she is still involved in what is most likely a fairly traditional social group (church). i think this communicates good values, both in general and specifically for what you would be looking for given your life situation.
EDIT: and you seem like you have this under control, but if a woman is fishing for a proposal and she can't respect "i am father to my children, and any marriage affects them. i like you a lot, but i will tell you when i think it's a good idea to get married," i think it would be a major red flag.
FlyingRedPill 10y ago
One kid, loves her to death and would like to have more. She's not only cool about it but excited when a date involves carting the kids someplace.
She's not terribly emotional about him save for when she talks about her daughter. She's welled up a few times wondering how her kiddo will process the divorce as she grows. She's put the topic of her ex out there in almost a storyboard chronological format, not a lot of editorializing but instead telling me "ask if you have questions."
And no talk of proposals yet - we've discussed our goals in general terms, what we want out of a serious relationship, but neither one of is is going there just yet.
boydeer 10y ago
you sound like an awesome guy with a pretty good handle on things. you might want to check out positive masculinity books like Models by Mark Manson, and the way of the superior man by whatever that guys name is. I feel like the rational male by Rollo Tomassi might not be up your alley since it's a little more paranoid and hostile to women in general, but if you can sift through it he does at least dissect some really taboo subjects that I found useful.
FlyingRedPill 10y ago
Thanks man, I'll look the books up.
mordanus 10y ago
Because most single mothers are toxic as fuck. Most of them are single because they made a bunch of shitty decisions. That doesn't mean that this particular girl is shit. If I were you I would seek to find out more about this girl and see if she is blaming him for all of the marital problems and accepting none of them herself. Make sure she is as good as you think she is because most likely she isn't. We men tend to create a version of women that doesn't exist and then lose it when they don't live up to it.
Anyways man. Enjoy the girl IMO. The only kind of guy that should date single mothers is a single father.
FlyingRedPill 10y ago
From what it sounds like things were pretty good until the addiction and the fact he was laid off as a result of the addiction. I haven't dug too deep because the dating thing is still very new, but I'm keeping my eye on it. I believe how people speak of their exes speaks volumes about them.
mordanus 10y ago
If you can honestly believe that the reason that she is single is from no major fault in her own other than choosing a shitty husband then it would seem she is a decent choice.
LineOfCoke 10y ago
i like single moms. generally speaking thier lifestyle tends to fit my personality. shes ma because she cant go out hecause she has no babysitter, and Im like YES! we dont have to go out! Kids dont bug me, and i say if she can take care of one kid, she can take care of two. like if you see the kids clea and healthy, and shes good with it, shes a good mom. not too scaredtodump a load in her.
Thier_2_Their_Bot 10y ago
FTFY LineOfCoke :)
Please don't hate me. I'm only a simple bot trying to make a living.
LineOfCoke 10y ago
thank you. im currently high on paon killers.
MrsStrom 10y ago
I was a divorced mother of one when I met Mr Strom. He also was divorced and had one child. We've been together for 11 years and married for 7.
Dating some one with kids brings its own challenges, but if you don't want to start over, it is a viable option.
FlyingRedPill 10y ago
I wouldn't mind "starting over" in that I'm completely open to more kids. Tiny people are awesome.
MrsStrom 10y ago
I completely agree.
CSMastermind 10y ago
Other commenters here have summed up everything well. She seems like a good option for you but take things slow and make sure you're compatible. I'd add one more point: Talk to your kids about it before you make a decision. Other than that good luck man.
FlyingRedPill 10y ago
My youngest two are easy - they barely remember their mother and I together. My oldest is the one I'm taking things slow with and talking things through with step by step. In the absence of another parent, he's subconsciously assigned himself the role of second in command and he's scared to lose that.