I am pretty sure I know the answer to this question....but just want to make sure.
Is there any situation in which a guy might be advised to apologize to a unintentionally insulted woman? In the unlikely scenario in witch forgiveness MIGHT be warranted, why?
Also, since I do know betas are the ones to say sorry, I find the term "I apologize." saves face much more than "I am sorry"
Do keep in mind, psychologically speaking, that when one doesn't put forth a concerted effort to dissect a subject, it becomes an "emotional" topic with little to no rational.
So just because Red Pill ideology says "don't ever say sorry for your actions, it reveals weakness" don't blindly follow.
If you answer I hope it's logical.
Johnny10toes 10y ago
One reason you don't apologize for someone getting emotional about what you said is that their reaction is not in your control. But here is the skinny from The 16 Commandments of Poon.
VIII. Say you’re sorry only when absolutely necessary
Halfjor 10y ago
That is well said. There's nothing inherently wrong with saying sorry. Rarely you might fuck up or do something genuinely hurtful and you'll want to say it. Its benefits go hand in hand with limiting how much you say it. Say you're in an LTR and you fuck up and do something that really hurts her (yes, you can still fuck up and hurt someone as an RP man). "I'm sorry" will carry much more weight when she's never heard you say it before.
The problem with "sorry" is its massive overuse. It's really a shit test when a woman wants you to apologize for something that is minor and probably doesn't matter to her. I'm not apologizing to you for saying the word "retard". Not to mention frivolous stuff every day. Don't say sorry if you accidentally knock a pen off my desk, just pick it up and hand it to me.
Rooi_Aap 10y ago
"I am sorry you are upset/offended". You don't apologize if you are sure you are right. You just display some sympathy for their reaction to the truth/situation, them being upset is their problem and you validate their emotion as a consolation (women crave validation for their emotions/thoughts). This is chipping at your frame, so use sparingly or when absolutely necessary.
However if you realize you are wrong, you apologize and provide a fix/consolation in the same breath to move on from your mistake. You still control the situation, even though you were wrong.
JetteAuLoinTRP 10y ago
I don't apologize anymore. It's useless. People don't care about apologizes.
Nowadays, I just recognize my mistakes. "You're right I did XXX and shouldn't have. I have no excuses. I'll work it out". That's what a man does. Not whimp into excuses and find an easy way out, just recognize what wrong he made and fix it.
It very few extreme cases, you may apologies.
sealteamaus 10y ago
this woman was giving me shit one day about what i did somewhere and i asked "do you want an apology?" she said "eww god no, yuck!"
ProjectShamrock 10y ago
I agree with what everyone else is saying here, but there's another side to it that makes it a much more tricky thing.
In the eyes of some people, "I'm sorry" means, "I apologize". In the eyes of other people, it means, "I sympathize with you." You know how Canadians have a stereotype of saying, "I'm sorry" all the time? It's not that they are taking ownership for your problem, it's a way of expressing sympathy with you and being polite. Women often want to hear "I'm sorry" as a comfort test rather than expecting you to admit blame or help solve their problems.
So my advice is what everyone else is saying, only utter apologies when you truly are to blame, and don't use the phrase "I'm sorry" because there are many ways to take it so it's best to be direct and clear. If you're trying to sympathize, you can say something that can't be taken any other way like, "It's too bad your day sucked at work, let's go out for a walk at the park and focus on something else."
RPthrowaway123 10y ago
If you apologize just for hurting her feelings, even if it was unintentional, she'll start to expect it.
Apologize if you know you well and truly fucked up, but no other reason. There are times when a man should own his mistakes but here isn't one of them. It will bite you I'm the ass in the long run.
you_dont_even_no 10y ago
After an hour of no input, I'll try to start a conversation. IMO "I apologize" > "I am sorry" Why?
It might be due to an under usage of the term compared to the latter. Unique, possibly interpreted as more intelligent. Possibly.
"I'm sorry" has been said to girls from past betas no doubt. Thus emotionally connecting you to a previous beta?
"I apologize" is a verb, a concise action. While on the other hand "I am sorry" is a an opening to ones emotional state.
Also, the ending sound of apologize, IMO, sounds more masculine with a pretty strong sounding conclusion. More difficult to drag out, possibly eliminating indecisiveness? Which is seen as unattractive to women and men alike.
"I'm sorry" on the other hand, can become a whiny "I am sorryyyy..."
Well anyway. Thoughts? Input?
TheFriendWithin 10y ago
'I am sorry' sounds like a description of your own emotional state.
However when you say 'I apologize', it doesn't necessarily give away your own feelings on the matter, only that you acknowledge someone else has been upset as a result.
'I apologize' is a far more reticent statement.
EDIT: Grammar
AZTRP 10y ago
Further, "I am sorry" is a declaration of what you are. It's a conugation of the form 'to be'
"I am alpha"
"I am male"
"I am sorry?..."
I apologize is a verb, an action, meaning there is an end to it. At some point in time you will no longer be apologizing so they should soak it up when they can.
KenuR 10y ago
Something along the lines of "I know how you feel" might do the trick as well. Acknowledging her emotional state, without putting yourself down.
TheFriendWithin 10y ago
I've had women and heard of women get even more upset after a man utters the words 'I know how you feel'.
FluteByTrey 10y ago
The simple approach: be true to YOURSELF.
If you did something that you sincerely regret based on your own moral compass, apologize for that and only that.
Otherwise, do not apologize for someone else's emotions. They are responsible for their own emotions. Also, it is poor integrity to apologize for something you don't actually regret. That's called lying.
I feel that if you look at this from an integrity perspective, it becomes very simple.
OneTouchHowMuch 10y ago
It's better to under-apologize than to over-apologize. Deep down, if someone respects you, likes you, and holds you in good regard, they won't get so easily offended if you slip up and say something wrong. It would take more than one time.
If someone doesn't like you, doesn't respect you, it doesn't matter what you say or do, they'll FIND something to be offended about. In that case, it's even more important to maintain your frame.
you_dont_even_no 10y ago
Well said. If you can, please expand on the topic of someone who likes you vs someone who doesn't in regard to being offended.
There might be something you have to say on the subject that I and others would find interesting, and insightful.
OneTouchHowMuch 10y ago
If someone generally likes you and holds you in high regard, they'll shit test you less often, argue with you less. IOW, they will make an effort to get along. When there is a disagreement it's a discussion not an accusation or resentment display. Those people accept you for who you are.
If someone does not like you, doesn't hold you in high regard, or is in competition with you (subconsciously), they will be compelled to shit test you publicly, argue, be dismissive, get offended. All in a subconscious effort to "expose" your perceived lower status. When you maintain frame, it actually exposes your higher status BUT it means you always have to be on your toes lest you lose frame/status.
Sometimes, I'm in a place where I just want to be around people who don't constantly shit-test me, argue about everything, or get offended at the slightest comment. These people are fun. They're called friends.
you_dont_even_no 10y ago
Thank you.
I do however love my true close friends that shit test me constantly. When we are truly comfortable with one another shit flies when we agree and amplify.
I am starting to pick up this mentality in public with new friends and aquatences. Like the example above, it isn't always taken well. And yes I realize, it's not exactly my fault people get offended, so I have to backtrack.
So maybe the way I rectify is wrong.
OneTouchHowMuch 10y ago
Your friends giving you shit lovingly is not the same as a shit test.
ConfidenceMatters 10y ago
Never say "Sorry,"
Simply use "mistakes were made."
That is a poon commandment to never assume the submissive role
DowntownSacramento 10y ago
Nope.
You can't go round basing your actions on other people's feelings esp. W/o having I tent to do the harm perceived in the first place. That aint RP, your mama will tell you that.
EndTheCause 10y ago
Think about why they would be offended. Is what you said truly stupid and hurtful to others? Or is the hamster running full steam and you bruised her ego in an honest, playful way?
The best way to look at it is like this: if you made an honest mistake, be a man and apologize. Otherwise, stand up for yourself like a man would.
you_dont_even_no 10y ago
Well stated. Hindsight looks like her hamster was working overtime.
I appreciate the input.
omgimbackagain 10y ago
If i unintentionally insult anyone and i feel they have the right to be offended im apologizing to them. I think im Beta.
you_dont_even_no 10y ago
Well the reason I would debate your stance is an experience I have had with a woman that could very likely be applicable to woman in general.
Try to understand the concepts, not the specific experience.
Female acquaintance, comes says hi to me. With a bro-shake. Naw. I told her I would rather not. I didn't want to orbit myself by subjecting myself to her attempt.
After a few attempts to say "hi" to me using non verbal communication, such as the bro-shake, fist bump, and high five, I denied her.
I was attempting to make it a hug or nothing situation to increase kino.
After the denial, I can see she was distraught. DISTRAUGHT that I didn't comply.
I thought to myself "why the fuck is she that upset?" Getting me to...hamster...thinking about her....
Anyway I came to the conclusion she might think I just didn't want to touch her. I might possibly think she is "dirty", or "disgusting".
I don't think like this, woman do.
So that's a hurtful thought I might have caused her to think. Unintentionally.
I sincerely apologize, and it didn't take much effort on my part. She was fine within 1 sec, literally.
This got me thinking again, she made a scene in attempt to get my attention.
Pretending to be hurt or insulted might have been a ploy to get my attention.
Woman cry wolf. Fact. Attempting to dress you as the sheep when you have a more wolf-like demeanor is a shit test now that I think about it.
Terminal-Psychosis 10y ago
People are responsible for their own feelings. Nobody can make anybody feel anything. Taking responsibility for other's feelings leaves you wide open for manipulation.
Zero need to apologize, just go in for the hug.
Johnny10toes 10y ago
Sounds like you might be too serious. When she throws up her hand for a high five just say "Who's gay?" and point at her. Make sure you have a shit eating grin.
And yeah they cry wolf. The pout, smile, cry and all manner of emotional shit to manipulate you.
you_dont_even_no 10y ago
Ah yes, I remember that one. Good one to have in ones arsenal.
I might have been to serious because she has previously try to "bro-zone" me. I made the decision to not let that happen.
It wasn't because this specific girl. Rather principle not to let that happen with girls in general.
Johnny10toes 10y ago
Yeah, you don't have to go total "If we're not fucking we're not talking" route. You've got some leeway. Just don't do shit for her like "Can you take these to the mail room and fax them for me?" "Can you get me a cup of coffee?" You can put her in a friend zone type thing. After all girls have girlfriends.