I've come to grips with the fact that women are biologically hypergamous but haven't been able to change my emotional response to them being this way. Why does a man go crazy when thinking of the woman he likes with another man? Why does a man feel pain when his woman beds another man? I very much doubt women feel this way. Is this social conditioning or is it biology?
To deal with this, I usually do what you all do which is go out and bed more/different women until that pain goes away. But I'd argue that this approach has more of a numbing effect rather than a healing effect.
Edit: just wana say thanks for all your responses, all your knowledge is appreciated
LS_D 10y ago
you know how when you rub one out to some hot chick in some pron and almost instantly all that desire and lust just disappears!
well that's how you'll feel after fucking this chick, that's why 'oneitis' like you have saying shit like "his woman", when she's fucking someone else .. mate, please, this is TRP, you said you've come to grps with some aspects of womens nature, well now it's time to come to term with yours!, and here's the place to help.
Firsly you need to ask yourself "why do I feel and think the way I do about this girl, what's with the oneitis ghosty?" Ask your self this and be brutally honest. Why are you putting this girl on a pedestal?
Once you know that you'll probably find your oneitis gone and you'll be able to connect with other girls again, you'll be free of the mindset and new girls will have your whole attention. I bet a few of them saw quite clearly they weren't get 'all' of you, so clear your mind by questioning it until you understand it. It will feel great
AFPJ 10y ago
Yes, because it is in their best interest to mate upgrade.
Yes, because it is in your best interest to mate guard.
Because on a primal level this implies your genes are inferior and might be raising someone else's kids.
It's a loss of reproductive opportunity; our hind-brain's priorities are 90% loss avoidance & 10% opportunity.
Women do feel this way when men significantly above their SMV dump them.
Both. "love" and "mourning" are socially ingrained. The visceral reaction to cuckoldry is biology, throughout history, a higher percentage of women have reproduced than men - this is due to women having intrinsic biological value in the form of ferility; overall, women live on a 2-8 SMV scale that becomes 0-8 as they age out of fertility: I say this because you can't find a woman and say she's "one in a million" as far as mating prospects go ...if you randomly line up a million women, a few will be just as pretty and tall and curvaceous as any of 'em. Men, on the other hand, risk being a 0 but can become a 10. It is very easy to take a man such as Elon Musk, Bill Gates or George Clooney and say that they are - at least - one in a million; no one will argue, because men are providers, protectors and builders. The empires and legacies they've built are clear indicators to their value. As women... fertility is their value. Take any A-list actress, line up a million random women and with even makeup, a few of em will be as pretty as the actress or even more so. Men lower than the average woman in value (most men) feel that jealousy vs hypergamy is unjust.
vandaalen 10y ago
Such wisdom.
♂
trpbot 10y ago
Confirmed: 1 point awarded to /u/AFPJ by vandaalen. ^[History]
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[deleted] 10y ago
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AFPJ 10y ago
OP asks: "If hypergamy is biological for women is jealousy for men?"
Ergo the question can't be discussed because it's void. It's asking "why is blue better than bacon?"
As aforementioned, men have two things women covet - the second being provision.
Women get very jealous very quickly when other women attempt luring their BB providers.
A man can't fool a woman into birthing another woman's child, therefore male "jealousy" of infidelity is higher.
This is also why "casual flings" are forgiven so easily as long as men are the offenders: women don't care about their men sharing their seed with other women, in fact it confirms that their offspring will go on to successfully reproduce.
If a man could date an average woman for five years, sneak out for an hour, fuck Alessandra Ambrosio and stick her fertilized egg back into his average girlfriend's vagina then tell her it's her baby, divorce her, take the baby and half of her shit as well as payments for the next 18 years on top of having custody ...most men would be doing it.
There's nothing irrational, rationalized, greedy or shortsighted about it: quite the opposite. Morality is irrelevant. This isn't a minutiae lapse in judgement that women immediately regret and mourn for the rest of their lives. It's the dark reality of the ugly side of our species, they know full well what they are doing as they do it & proceed anyways.
Basically, it's a really great fucking deal - which is exactly why men evolved such a keen sense at averting it.
About your implication of empathy ...TRP ain't the place for it. 2XC or AskHamsters is for that and pretty lies.
I ain't kickin' the guy while he's down, just telling it how (and more importantly why) it is.
exbp 10y ago
Because he might wind up raising offspring that are not his own? Because his children likely go with her if she leaves?
[deleted] 10y ago
There really isn't much relevance to "social conditioning". This phenomena is made up and manifested in current feminised standards in the social world. We are a polygynous species, like apes, hippos and lions. They tell us that women being shamed and men getting props for having sex with a lot of partners is "social conditioning" when in fact it's the result of sociobiological mechanisms; for men fucking lots of women is high status and it carries an inherent fitness advantage, for women it is associated with promiscuity and a bad investment where a man will likely be cuckolded, as well as .offering no biological fitness advantage
Why does a man feel "bad" when his woman fucks someone else? If he didn't he would be letting his woman fuck whoever he wanted and he would unlikely be contributing to the future gene pool; thus this trait of indifference to partner loyalty isn't naturally selected; in the opposite scenario we can see how a trait of "mate hoarding" has been manifested through natural selection.
Goldfulgore 10y ago
Though I agree with most comments here, do not consider jealousy as a mating strategy.
Hypergamy is the female biological mating strategy, just as looks is the male counterpart.
Jealousy can also be biological but can be overcomed. However nothing can convince me to accept a physical unattractive female mate. I cannot overcome this.
johnnight 10y ago
Yes, all emotions are biological. They are there for a purpose: to motivate you to do, what is beneficial for your genes to be carried into the future.
Emotions are motivations.
E.g. your sex drive motivates you to stick your dick you know where, so that your genes spread. Your anger motivates you to beat that other ape with a stick, because he took your food, woman or is a danger.
Just from the fact, that certain emotions are strong, we can deduce that they are very important. Without emotions we would not be motivated to do anything. Perfectly rational beings would be apathetic.
Doesn't mean we need to blindly follow those emotions. The rational part of our brains calculates the long-term consequences of our actions and can hold us back.
E.g. "Don't stick your dick in crazy" is a rule that helps us to navigate the short term benefits and long term consequences of sex. Ten thousand years ago there were no bad consequences to this kind of sex. Now, in the so called civilized world there are legal consequences, which is something so abstract that pure biology can not deal with it.
Civilization is a set of rules that try to counteract our biological instincts with socially enforced consequences. There are legal consequences to many things that you would want to do, when you are jealous: beat her up or beat him up. This causes us a lot of frustration for men, because we are powerless to act on this emotion.
Our male biological instincts are now in deep conflict with the reality. Since the sexual revolution it was decided that women have the freedom to choose their mates and change their mates. This means that her behavior causes your emotion and you can not stop her behavior.
So what we need to do is to have our own behavioral responses, which are still legal. Having sex with another woman is legal and it gives you some way of satisfying the jealousy and overwrites the emotional dedication to the cheating woman. Another response would be to change your emotional investment in all women, who you are dealing with. If you don't care about her, if she is just a plate, you will not be so jealous and frustrated when she chooses to have sex with another man.
I don't think this is a world women want. It's a world, where men preemptively do not love women and never commit to women, never propose and never want to have long term relationships. This is the consequence of hypergamy. In a world of unrestricted hypergamy male marital investment and commitment is bound to go to zero. Commence the decline.
ZAQXSWCDEVFR1 10y ago
Pretty sure women get jealous, dude. I've dated jealous women before.
CSMastermind 10y ago
Women are driven by jealousy
armchairpsychLA 10y ago
Men and women can feel jealousy and for a variety of reasons. At a high level, women are competing for the top males and become jealous of each others success. They experience it just as much as men, perhaps more.
Men are competing to impregnate women so they can pass their genes on. When another man has sex with a woman you find to be of high value, your ego takes a hit and you feel the emotion of 'jealousy'. Its designed to make you either give up or make yourself more competitive in the sexual marketplace.
The betas will feel defeated and feel as if the world is unfair. The alphas will maintain frame and find other women.
Being a young guy (still finishing off puberty hormones), having oneitis, having weak frame control and not having other plates to spin will make the emotion of jealousy worse. Its just your primitive brain getting on your case to become a higher value male.
edit: It also should be noted, sexual jealousy in men is also evolutionary programmed in to men because cuckoldry (i.e. raising another males offspring) is major evolutionary disadvantage for the man being cuckolded. Raising another males offspring means you are giving your time, energy and resources to someone else's genes. We are hardwired to avoid that situation. Jealousy helps us do that.
edit2:
While stated women do feel jealousy, they are not empathetic to how hypergamy makes men feel.
asd1100 10y ago
because he is insecure. it's the same fear that would occur if you where at a literal dick measuring contest and one of the judges was your girlfriend.
because he realises he lived a fantasy, because she never was his woman but he foolishly deluded himself into thinking he was enough.
They do, they are permanently insecure: their dicks(personality, beuty and hotness) is aways on display and the judgements are always public.
The second one is more complicated, if a woman loves you, she stoped caring about the dick some time ago, she wants your comitment, your soul and as long as that isn't under threat you dick can be wherever. Caviat, if a chick doesn't love you than you hurt her ego and the feeling is similar to ours.
Social conditioning is built upon optimal behavior in line with our biology and society.
You don't need to heal motherfucker. You need to get over it, that means replace the emotion with something positive. Have fun, enjoy yourself for a couple of days. Get a hooker or 2 and have that threesome your girl never gave you, get a midget in there so you make a awesome story as well. After you can't party anymore you slow down, you reingage the sad feelings let out a cry if you need to, dry your eyes with hooker breasts and go to sleep. When you wake up resume life in the proper stoic way.
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weirdnamedindian 10y ago
...or suck his dick!
mordanus 10y ago
jealousy is a natural thing for both genders. The closer comparison is hypergamy for women and polygamy for men. Men are willing to stray and have sex with most available women. Women however are willing to stray and have sex with a superior man.
648262 10y ago
I don't know man, but jealousy is much more prevalent in females than males in my experience.
lost_2_apathy 10y ago
The short answer is yes.
We have evolutionary mechanisms that trip on cues of sexual infidelity.
Basically, those who didn't have sexual jealousy bit the evolutionary dust while they were raising other men's offspring. At the same time, those who had sexual jealousy were less likely to be cuckolded. Things like mate guarding tactics helped those men succeed in that.
There is lots of literature on this topic, if interested pm me or do some googling.
[deleted] 10y ago
When all the blood flows to the heart (or the penis) it chokes the brain.
like_a_ghost 10y ago
So if logic and reasoning are gone with the brain, does that mean this response of being jealous and hurt comes from instinct/biology?
[deleted] 10y ago
It's a fear of loss which will lead to being alone. Thus, it is prudent to always have two women who want to fuck you
[deleted] 10y ago
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[deleted] 10y ago
It's easier to be unhappy in a relationship than it is to go out there and find a new one
yeahweewee 10y ago
if jealousy is what they call being disgusted by whores and worrying about raising another mans kid that yeah its natural to men