We've known that at least in the last few years the culture in the West has been ever increasing hostility towards men and traditional gender roles.
In my opinion, the foundational principles of Western civilization (in b4 white nationalist - I'm an Asian) include freedom of speech and expression and individualism.
With the erosion of these principles, the West is more a string of supermarket chains than that vaunted civilization that the rest of the world (largely) used to envy and seek to emulate.
Anyone from the West thinking of leaving?
Edit: I'm in Asia
BigBallsJamesHunt 5y ago
Don't do it, it might be true that society is slowly becoming retarded, but you don't appreciate the economical possibilities you have. Take an advantage of it and don't give a fuck, money gives you freedom, I would consider moving out only if you are somewhat rich and can sustain it.
bondbandito 5y ago
I'm in Asia. But I'll answer that if I were in the US, the culture itself has grown toxic enough that I would take a poorer life if it actually means a better place to grow a family (yeap, that's my ultimate end goal).
I'm thinking of working a telecommuting job though, and there's a decreasing gap in economic possibilities between the West and the rest now
BigBallsJamesHunt 5y ago
I was born in a "poorer life" country (albeit not borderline poor, let's say an iphone was a luxury goods when I was there 5 years ago) and I'm talking from my perspective, if I were born in the west I would be fucking staked by now (but probably I wouldn't have the same mindset I have now, fuck, I'm going too deep).
It's true the gap is decreasing, OFC if we are talking about a job where you are a specialist in your field, but still, if you are in the west, you earn more.
Good luck with your job, it's a pretty good field in my opinion.
I'm pretty drunk, time to go out, sorry if I wrote some shit you couldn't understand, I can clarify it tommorow, have a good day or night :D
bondbandito 5y ago
You would indeed earn more, but anyway it levels out at a certain point, beyond which you don't really need more money to better enjoy your life (unless your passion is wealth).
I'm from Asia but was born pretty rich, so I always craved good personal relationships and never had my mind thinking I'll need to work harder to earn (sufficient) money.
For me, the extra money doesnt justify living in the culture the West has become
[deleted] 5y ago
My long term plan is to continue to develop my location independent income in $USD and move to South America. Earning dollars that translate amazingly well to the local currency means I don’t have to earn anywhere near American wages to live a good life.
gaki123 5y ago
lmao at moving to SA (see my post). I would advise to moving to some central european countries or southern ones (crotia, portugal, south italy) which are cheap but still waaaaaaaaaay more functional than SA shitholes (other than Chile, which is based)
[deleted] 5y ago
Solid feedback. My youngest will be old enough in a few years for me to start vagabonding. I’ll pick the place after I experience it a bit.
BloodSurgery 5y ago
Am Chilean, can confirm.
bondbandito 5y ago
This is what I meant by moving.
[deleted] 5y ago
The west is drowning. I’m not going down with it.
I suggest reading 4hr work week to start your path. Plenty of good entrepreneurial resources on reddit
bondbandito 5y ago
Thanks
CainPrice 5y ago
The West is far superior to any other culture.
In fact, the very reason the West can afford to be as liberal as it is stems from the fact that the West is extremely prosperous and its people live decadent lives. In cultures where getting shot on the way to work and having enough food to eat for dinner that night are serious concerns, nobody has the time to worry about stupid shit like liberal agendas, sexism, abortion, homosexuality, racism, or legalizing drugs. They're too busy trying not to get shot and scrape together enough food to eat.
The fact that people in the West have enough free time to worry about uncomfortable speech and censorship and feminism and other bullshit like that is a testament to how great things are in the West. We live in first world cultures where you can have air conditioning, a car, a television, a fancy cellular telephone, a computer with an internet connection, and still be considered poor.
And while on the surface, yes, crazy anti-male liberal agendas seem to govern, that's not really what's happening. It's mostly rich people and career politicians catering to the people who vote and buy goods and services. It is 100% possible for a real man to make his way in this world as long as he knows the game.
BigBallsJamesHunt 5y ago
Bravo! You nailed it! This guy is 100% right and I'm talking from my personal experience.
bondbandito 5y ago
All of his points are in line with my premise though. I say without personal insult that I already had those concepts before that
bondbandito 5y ago
I do believe the West in its original tenets is the prime culture. That said, what it is actually today is what matters.
Yes, it is the most advanced and prosperous as an economy. But we are men. Would you sit on a golden potty as the heir to a multi-million dollar empire while stuffing your face with nachos and dick prostitutes or be a starving musician whose raw passion gets him the poon at the end of nightclub performances.
I've been in the army and I can say I felt 100 times more miserable after getting my freedom and being alone pissing away my time on my PS4 compared to when I was getting fucked by my drill sergeant and forced to chomp down my rations in 10 minutes being stuck in a bunk because I had purpose.
Sure, all things being equal, it's better to be richer. But the current context is that economic prosperity has built feminism up to an extent that society is corroded with existential nihilism.
CainPrice 5y ago
Then don't sit on your ass? Go do something purposeful?
Nobody is forcing you to be unsuccessful while feminism thrives and men who know how to navigate the system profit.
If you grab life by the balls and go be a real man instead of sitting at your computer desk complaining about how bad things are from inside of your air conditioned residence, you'll do just fine. Society isn't holding you back. You are.
bondbandito 5y ago
Implicit assumptions you're having.
Never said I had no purpose. You've entirely missed the point. I'm merely arguing that a financially poorer society can be culturally superior, and more desirous to live in.
CainPrice 5y ago
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. The very fact that some people can afford to be losers and not starve to death is what makes Western society great. Not everybody can run a multi million dollar business and live in mansions. Some people have to mop the floors in your skyscrapers, and it's important to keep those people happy with cheap beer, air conditioning, internet, and pornography.
bondbandito 5y ago
No, I'm agreeing with you. I do also think that Western culture affords the greatest freedom of lifestyle.
Sure, the average Joe has it worse outside of the West. I never said that it's better to be born out of the West. What I instead said was whether you would move. We aren't random people waiting to be born. We would be moving with our wealth abroad, skipping out on the childhood and early adulthood in less developed countries.
That's my point. With what you have now, would you consider leaving. Not whether you would rather be a random person born outside of the West
CainPrice 5y ago
Maybe in another 20 years, when I'm ready to retire, I'll go somewhere where the locally grown coffee is amazing and the beach isn't too far away and my American dollars go farther than they would in the first world. I'm not about to go today to spend my prime years in a non-first-world country.
bondbandito 5y ago
Is the dealbreaker the shitty economy/pay elsewhere or you prefer Western women too?
I'm cool with whatever your preference, just want to know for which of the two reasons non-first-world countries are a no go for you
CainPrice 5y ago
I like America. I like living a middle class life that counts as ludicrously rich in most other places in the world. I like having a 3000 square foot home in a neighborhood where I'm surrounded by similar-class people who can afford a house there, cable, fast internet, a cool cell phone, a car, and good bars and restaurants within driving distance, a gym nearby, and endless job opportunities and attractive women in my city.
I don't see any need to change any of that just because some idiots on the internet have this delusion that the nation has become anti-male, socialist, liberal, and feminism has taken over.
That's just internet hype. In the real world, where people get out of bed, hit the gym, go to work, come home, go out, meet other people, and have sex, there's none of that. Out in the real world, nobody is worried that liberalism and feminism are taking over and holding men back. Real men aren't being held back.
There's no reason to consider leaving the first world. It's just plain not that bad.
bondbandito 5y ago
Depends on where in the States you are doesnt it. My friends in San Fran, LA and NY are talking bout how much worse it is there.
I can understand if you say Middle America is almost entirely untouched. But really that's your context. Unless you say you live in an overwhelmingly liberal city, then I'd like to hear some promise
[deleted] 5y ago
Very true. I remember just 5 or 8 or even 10 years ago here in Canada they weren't as hostile towards both traditional masculinity and femininity as they're now. With transgenderism and "queer" and all that "3rd gender" bullshit indoctrination, people are going insane day by day.
It amazes me how in a matter of less than a decade a society can ideologically and culturally descend so much so fast, but on the bright side, that also means that it's possible for a society to evolve for the better just as fast. Give the leftists their time; when enough people finally realize the bullshit of radical leftism our society will spring right back up.
Or at least that's my wishful thinking.
bondbandito 5y ago
Just because it takes a second to mangle a car in a wreck doesnt mean it takes the same time to restore it
[deleted] 5y ago
I was not writing that out of blind optimism. There are examples of a society getting destroyed but later built back up just as quickly in human history. Also you can't really compare a human society to a car and it's a fallacy of false equivalence because these two are fundamentally different.
I'm actually more concerned about the genetic degradation of the members of our society than ideological degradation. The real, irrecoverable permanent damage to our society is not feminism or transgenderism, but rather it is the millions of blacks, browns, Muslims and other third worlders that are flowing into our society and polluting the genetic makeup of our demography. At least feminism and transgenderism and other ideological diseases are curable. Genetic pollution is not.
bondbandito 5y ago
I'm not critiquing your POV. More the logical fallacy of your sentence which said that just cause it took X amount of time to break civilization that it also thus takes the same amount to revert it
Also, about genetic pollution. I can get if Europeans feel that way, but Americans were the bottom of the pool of society in Europe when they migrated for the large part
[deleted] 5y ago
It is indeed possible to restore a fallen society just as fast as it fell or even faster, as long as it doesn't get completely burnt to ground. The reason is simply because the ideologies and values of the society can change.
So you tried to look smart by pointing out my bad wording and label it as fallacy, completely ignoring or misunderstanding my point, and then proceed to make not one but TWO actual, even dumber fallacies (i.e., false equivalence and fallacy fallacy) simultaneously in a single sentence yourself? At least my fallacy was merely due to bad wording unlike yours which were a result of bad logic. Pffft
bondbandito 5y ago
It wasn't just bad wording on your part. You directly said it
TheBadGoy 5y ago
Don't listen to the boomers here, go to another country and see things for yourself. No CNN/Fox News, no political screeching, no social media(people are too poor to afford internet,its just nature and normal human beings. Fuck The United States of Weimerica
gaki123 5y ago
Dude I live in Brazil and I'm working my ass out to move to the US (grad school -> h1b route) Trust me all leftist bullshit is just buzz what matters is money/functional institutions (such as police force, politicians ) . You are severely underestimating how life sucks in 3rd world shitholes
clausternn 5y ago
Funny. I lived in the US half my life and moved back to Brazil.
bondbandito 5y ago
If you would kindly read the question again, there was nothing about the US versus third world shitholes - that was a scope you yourself came up with
Just because you're from Brazil doesn't mean everywhere outside of the West is a third world shithole. Quite frankly, aside from Venezuela, it's the country adjacent to African tier states.
gaki123 5y ago
Ok bro do whatever the fuck you want. Just advising that Portugal, Chile, Croatia etcc would be better place
bondbandito 5y ago
You're backpedaling. Only now you're talking about these other countries. Before that you read it as US vs third world
ultrasuperthrowaway 5y ago
People think leaving the West means they find NAWALT. It's impossible. AWALT no matter where you live.
bondbandito 5y ago
You really have a trigger phrase dont you Read again, this has nothing to do with women
ultrasuperthrowaway 5y ago
Then how do you plan to start your family?
Will you adopt or become pregnant yourself?
Looks like you were the one who became triggered.
moltenw 5y ago
no one said anything about family. Why did you even bring it up, it's completely unrelated to anything.
ultrasuperthrowaway 5y ago
The OP did in their other replies
Here is a quote from him
"I'm in Asia. But I'll answer that if I were in the US, the culture itself has grown toxic enough that I would take a poorer life if it actually means a better place to grow a family (yeap, that's my ultimate end goal).
I'm thinking of working a telecommuting job though, and there's a decreasing gap in economic possibilities between the West and the rest now"
BloodSurgery 5y ago
Isn't this completely unrelated to OP's question? He means that the culture of the country will be different (so his family will have a better life), not that the women will be different than the West's
ultrasuperthrowaway 5y ago
The question was, "why did you even bring up women or family" and the answer was "the OP did, here is proof" then I posted OPs comment saying he wanted a family which is why he posted this thread.
This was ops thread and he literally said in a comment he wants to have a family. What more do you want? This was the entire reason he asked this question. Why would I just ignore OPs comment explaining why he asked the question? Questions don't exist in a vacuum, you take all available information to formulate answers.
If he wants a family it will likely involve a woman unless he adopts kids himself or gets pregnant himself through some new scientific methods. AWALT matters a lot more than culture because they will find a way to fuck you over no matter what country or culture you are in.
bondbandito 5y ago
Tagging /u/BloodSurgery so he sees
Look man. Everyone knows about AWALT. In fact, people here understand that even better than Frame. I don't need every alternate post saying "Buttt AWALT". Find a new trigger phrase
Yes I was talking about raising a family in one of my comments. BUT that wasn't even about the women. Haven't you heard of the phrase "it takes a village to raise a child". I was talking about the society to live in
ultrasuperthrowaway 5y ago
They'll have access to instagram and the Kardashians if they have the internet no matter where they are in the world. I've been living red pill for 6 years. We can debate this all you want that's okay with me. I've been to 27 countries and I can tell you with certainty that there is no culture in the world untouched by hypergamy and feminism. Ultimately your children's mom will be a woman who has full control of the situation she puts herself in regarding your life and your children.
bondbandito 5y ago
I'm not arguing against AWALT - you keep misreading
EL_Miore 5y ago
I would love to spend time in the Himalayan mountains.