It seems like there's a new wave of red pill guys talking on youtube and forums saying it all comes down to your appearance and height, and that the idea that confidence and charisma actually matter is just a soothing lie for unattractive guys.
I don't really buy this though. I'm decently attractive, but I'm still a retard compared to guys who know what they're doing. It seems like my appearance might give me a slight head start, but I would call it a stretch to call it anything more than that. I also went to school with a few guys who really naturally look the part, but are also too retarded to do much - meanwhile my very average uni mates who are frankly just better socially calibrated can pull off way more.
So what does this subreddit think about this new wave of thinking that overemphasises appearance and underemphasises charisma?
dulkemaru51 5y ago
Everything matters. How would you measure whether charisma or physical attractiveness is more important? Whether looks or the confidence coming from your looks is more attractive to women? They are factors. Maximize both.
IVIaskerade 5y ago
Looks gets your foot in the door, charisma seals the deal.
If you've got both it's effortless.
If you've got charisma but no looks, you have to work harder to get in, but once you're in it's easy.
If you've got looks but no charisma, you'll just fail repeatedly.
[deleted] 5y ago
Game will always trump looks, and charisma is part of game. I'm attractive as well and I've rarely pulled pussy off looks alone. It only helps you get noticed more.
[deleted] 5y ago
QFT. (It also makes them more charitable, but game, game, game.)
menial_optimist 5y ago
Any pointers in the right direction to understanding & developing game? I have none.
[deleted] 5y ago
Sidebar and practice.
[deleted] 5y ago
[deleted]
[deleted] 5y ago
Getting her wet is more a question of knowing how to make her wet. Not looking good per se, although it does help.
Iwannachokekatie 5y ago
The thing is you don't know if it's game OR looks + game that got you laid. You can have shitty game as a good looking guy, but you'll never have shitty looks.
Ie., what you said is baseless.
menial_optimist 5y ago
It doesn't matter if it matters. Maximize both. I'd say game is more important because it's something everyone can master, whereas looks is a genetic lottery that can only be maximized to it's limit on an individual basis. One man may be thor incarnate with looks while another might be a midget NBA all star dunker, but both dudes could potentially reach the same level of game.
Iwannachokekatie 5y ago
No shit that it's best to maximize both. What you said wrong tho.
[deleted] 5y ago
Well, I have been rejected enough to know the importance of game, even though I've always had the looks.
Iwannachokekatie 5y ago
Which doesn't mean guys who don't have the looks can pull with game.
StanDando 5y ago
If we look at 'seduction' as a linear process, then charisma can go further into the mid-phases than looks can. They both work best in the opening phases. Also neither of them are particularly important for closing the deal, though charisma can play a role in attractive typology game. Height, however, is a huge advantage, as it is judged not just as an index of attraction, but of status.
Ultimately social status and wealth are the most important factors, and with those, you could be a butt-ugly shortarse and still fuck more girls than the guys from Peepshow.
Game does help. And its worth the work, especially with handicaps such as unattractivess, shortness, and in my experience, poverty.
FemtoG 5y ago
I am the biggest proponent of looks theory but bottom line is you won't get anywhere if she isn't comfortable
[deleted] 5y ago
Those aren't red pill guys. They're incel fanboys.
You need some degree of both, but a lot of one and a medium amount of the other will get you laid like tile.
TitsAndWhiskey 5y ago
Yup. Charisma goes a long way, but if you're going to invest your effort into developing one or the other, focus on your looks.
resnine 5y ago
Isn't the 80/20 rule confirmation of why there are so many incels?
BusterVadge 5y ago
100% agreed. I am above average in the face dept. and do much better than many "hot" guys that I know because I'm good with people and talk to everyone.
Even if you have a perfect face you're not going to be swimming in pussy on looks alone. You need some game and you HAVE to be able to pass shit tests.
resnine 5y ago
Looks get them in, personality makes them stay.
MattyAnon Admin 5y ago
It's a big head start. Women hide how important it is so they can extract commitment and resources from betas: "I'm not that kind of girl! pay for more dates!".
Looks helps a lot. Charisma helps even more.
buddboy 5y ago
I'm short but have charisma. My pick up game is poor (could be lack of confidence though) but if I have a chance to spend more time with a girl I do great. I can't rely on looks to get a girls attention, so clubs or bars are bad for me. But in other settings I'll be okay if I get a chance to make her laugh or show my social status
XT3M3 5y ago
looks will always be on top. no doubt about that. cant showcase gow good you are at everything else if your looks sucks.
even the fat girls are super judgemental
resnine 5y ago
This is incel-esque.
atticusfinch1973 5y ago
I think that looks are part of charisma - you can't be hideous and have a decent amount of it. They complement each other.
There's tons of tall good looking guys I've met who are totally cringeworthy when it comes to interacting with anyone, let alone women.
As-You-Were 5y ago
To an extent. You can be as charming as you like but if you have Down syndrome you’re gonna struggle.
My rule of thumb is you can charm your way into +2 of your own rating (1-10) in females.
TheOneAndOnlyRob13 5y ago
Everything you do and are matters. Luckily, you can work on looks and charisma at the same time.
mrpoopistan 5y ago
If charisma doesn't count, then I challenge you to explain away each unfuckably hideous rock star who has been fucking supermodels his whole damned life.
Mick Jagger exists. That's where this argument ends.
[deleted] 5y ago
That's more status than charisma
mrpoopistan 5y ago
Eye roll. Lazy answer.
For some asshole playing a guitar at a dumpy bar for a gig, the charisma is the buy-in to get the status. But thanks for playing.
MYMOUTHISNUMmn 5y ago
That funky motherfucker has money and is'nt some normal chump trynna make it. He already had. Plus he played gutar.
empatheticapathetic 5y ago
If you don’t have girls receptive to your looks you aren’t going to have many opportunities for you to flex any charisma.
Each girl has a looks threshold. You have to pass that threshold to even qualify as a potential prospect. Once you pass you can range from a 1-10 and your charisma can be the gear that moves you in either direction.
Preselection is like using a cheat code. If you can engineer some fake or even real pre selection/dread, you can get a lot further than without it.
For a hot guy, pre selection is assumed.
FlyingSexistPig 5y ago
I have a friend who is a 1. Really. He’s unfortunate looking. But he is a fantastic conversationalist. He can talk to you about anything. He is smart and a great of friend.
But he’s not getting laid any time soon. Even the fat( not curvy, not plump, but fat with no boobs) chicks aren’t throwing him any.
Chicks want you to look hot so that they can be seen with a guy who is hot. He’s not a person, he’s an object.
GeuseyBetel 5y ago
I'm not so sure about this. Girls are super insecure and dont wanna date someone hotter than them. Probably a better way to put it is "chicks want to be seen with a guy who is high SMV"
Gravel_Roads 5y ago
Good looks will give you access to more doors of opportunity. It's charisma that opens them and keeps them open. Your looks just kind of sit there on your face, they're the first thing that will lose novelty in a relationship. Have something inside your head, too.
OddBalance 5y ago
The better you look the less charisma you need. Sometimes I can tell a girls made the decision that she wants to fuck me before we’ve even spoken. Even though I’m not the smoothest talker, all I have to do at that point is just not fuck up which isn’t too hard. That being said the opposite is also true: the more the charismas you have the less physical attractiveness you need
[deleted] 5y ago
For initial attraction looks matter. Past that you need game to keep the attraction going. In the long run, game is more important.
redhawkes 2 5y ago
Charisma and confidence are the core elements of the game.
Looks will open the door, but game will gets you in.
Don't listen to that incel aspie horseshit, they are just whiny bitches who're going to drag you down with them like a crabs in a bucket.
I can see this bullshit spreading around here at TRP and we all know where it comes from. Stay away from the losers.
SMV (Game, Looks, Status, Money), maximize all of them and be the best version of yourself.
GeuseyBetel 5y ago
^ this is a great comment. Looks = 1/4 of SMV. You do the math.
resnine 5y ago
We have to push against this shit filtrating our community message. If enough incels migrate over here this community will be the next incel hot-spot.
TheStumblingWolf 5y ago
Even a bad salesman can botch the sale of a beautiful car.
UnpluggedNigga 5y ago
Looks = initial attraction Charisma = pussy wetting
AlternativeMajor 5y ago
having charisma skill is useless if women dont even let you open your mouth near them because they find your face disgusting...
confidence is bullshit as well... how would you feel if a fat ugly black chick approached you on the street and started to chat up you? would she be able to use some magic routine to make your horny for her? its same with women... unless you are really good-looking you are wasting everyones time....
UnpluggedNigga 5y ago
Why are you here? Fuck off you pathetic shit