After a long personal journey I've come to accept the fact that women cannot feel romantic love. Specifically, the love we were taught to believe existed as children.
Love is unconditional accept for EXTREME circumstances like marital rape or SERIOUS neglect or abuse.
Love is eternal, again, barring EXTREME circumstances.
We know women don't feel this. Most marriages fail because of "financial" reasons or because one spouse smokes and the other doesn't. Women overwhelmingly are the inititators for divorce. The reason LEAST given for divorce is abuse. Which is expected in a world where women generally don't/can't feel romantic love.
The consequence of accepting this truth is that I've started to be put off by women romantically. Especially as I've grown more successful and more confident I've notice more female attention but my desire to pursue them is at an all time low. Almost non existent. I know that they are only interested in me because of these extreme superficial traits that say nothing about how decent of a person I am.
To me, women's affection feels like prostitution. I find myself a bit repulsed by them now despite getting more attention than ever. Only on a romantic level. I have no problem being friendly and interacting with them on a daily basis. I'm pretty outgoing. Just strictly talking about the idea of pursing them romantically or reciprocating romantic advances from them.
How do you open yourself up to a person that you know will stop liking you when your "frame" falters? If I grow close to a women and grow "feelings" but come on hard times she won't be there to support me long term. If I lose my job she'll leave, if I become emotionally vulnerable long term, she'll leave. If I do any host of things which, again, has nothing to do with my personality or how good I am as a person, she'll leave or at minimum, "fall out of love."
How do you love a creature which cannot love you back? How do you open yourself up to them?
I want to, I want to feel intimacy far more than I want casual, meaningly sex. How can I do that when I know that I'll only have her affection as long as I "hold frame?" How is that not glorified prostitution? The prostitute is only interested as long as I have money. The women is only interested as long as I have "frame."
Am I the only one put off by this dynamic?
I guess I'll ask this. Can you have true intimacy with a prostitute or escort when you know she's only there because of superficial reasons?
send_it_for_the_boys 5y ago
I mean think about this, you aren’t going to be able to LTR a 300 lb ugly girl just because she’s nice and loyal. Atleast I’m not. You have to be attracted there has to be attraction between the 2. It sucks but it’s true. We as MEN have to be men. We have to try to be men, we have to do what men do. Because in the dawn of time that’s how it was, and that’s still how it is. We just weren’t raised up to be very masculine, so of course it sounds wrong going against what you were told your whole life but this is how it is. This is Redpill this is why this sub is here. For me and you and the rest to better our masculinity.
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LittleGanymede 5y ago
That's not love.
Love isn't just "as long as your the best option I can see. As long as it's easy. Only as long as it's good."
Love is "through thick and thin."
What you are describing is the mindset of a prostitute. That's not love.
Bedtimeshine 5y ago
They will only stay thick and thin if you are the best they can do.
RedHoodhandles 5y ago
One of the most honest and oldest professions in the world. Makes you think.
Kabuki431 5y ago
What u seek does not exist in real life.
LittleGanymede 5y ago
Ok this is what I'm coming to terms with so I'm trying to plan my life based on this. I'd like to at least replicate it.
Intimacy is a basic human need I feel. Maybe I should just learn to value the intimacy of a prostitute.
Even just having someone to hold at night means a lot. Having someone to touch.
For example, I plan to eventually hire a live-in maid who I can "service" me on the side.
Given that true intimacy doesn't exist can I learn to simply value the "intimacy" of prositutes? I think my major hang up is how little I value the intimacy of prositutes. I know that they only "want" me because I have money or "traits." Traits and money that anyone can have. Maybe there is still some value in that.
babybopp 5y ago
Find that love from a woman knowing very well it could be gone tomorrow... your turn could be over.
So... that is why we form bonds with good guy friends that will always be there for you.
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LittleGanymede 5y ago
Yes. It's what I've come to realize. Though I'm sure you understand that this is not what we were taught as children.
How do you reconcile this? How DID you reconcile this? What has your relationship with women been like since this realization?
TheStumblingWolf 5y ago
There's nothing to reconcile. Nature is nature. Nothing more to it. You just have to accept that which cannot be changed.
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Mescalean 5y ago
When put this way, unconditional love is a bunch of fairy dust. Sugar pill. Thanks for this
isteppedinsjw 5y ago
Men love women, women love children, children love puppies.
That's the order, remember it.
LittleGanymede 5y ago
I know this.
isteppedinsjw 5y ago
Never forget it. The mantra will keep you safe from oneitis.
Xanax_Guy 5y ago
Don't overcomplicate love. Definition of love is "A feeling of intense attraction towards someone" that's all. It's not eternal it's not fucking perfect. Don't be an idiot romantic be realistic.
LittleGanymede 5y ago
That's garbage. Your definition of love is no different from "infatuation."
Your definition of love has no explanatory power because it fails to differentiate love from 'sexual attraction."
Xanax_Guy 5y ago
Sorry mate but your life will be all kinds of miserable because you are a hopeless romantic . You are basically expecting something from world that it doesn't have.
LittleGanymede 5y ago
I know that. So knowing that I'm asking how others deal with the fleeting nature of what we call "love" which is just another word for conditional, fleeting, temporary attraction.
EramSumEro 5y ago
In every relationship I've "loved" someone, that relationship has failed.
Does this mean that I am incapable of love? That maybe I just haven't found it yet? Or does this mean that what I thought was love never really existed in the first place?
I realized while reading The Rational Male that I'd been conditioned to believe those first two questions. I had never even thought to ask the third.
Asking and internalizing the third question sort of nulls the first two. It shifts the paradigm from thinking "there exists a thing called love that I am incomplete without" towards something more like "the belief in love has been a vague, indefinable goal that has been directing my thoughts and behaviors to my own demise."
It made me realize, during a time a waa just split up with a LTR, that I was too dependent on the validation of another person's approval ("love") to feel any self-worth. Realizing love never existed in the first place demanded I turn inwardly to develop the self worth. How'd I do that? I went back to school for a good career. I began lifting. I began talking to lots of people, both men and women. That initial sense of self pity and loss after the breakup quickly receded, because I invested in myself and felt more whole than I ever did in any relationship. All of this came about because I changed my expectations, and accepted reality for what it is.
Aaron_Aero 5y ago
OP I feel the same way. I get depressed thinking about human connections i thought I made with women only to be left or rejected simply because I wasn’t enough of a strong hot man at the time. It’s a dark red pill. I’m still dealing with the effects of this realization.
But what’I think he’s saying is that there are women who will love you despite their hypergamous nature and even fight off most of that nature as long as you stay on your shit. If she loves your strengths enough you can show a weakness every once in awhile without her IMMEDIATELY branch swinging your ass. Sometimes She’ll stay because she recognizes leaving at the first sign of trouble to another guy is a slut move. Both her inner voice and society will call her a hoe for leaving a great man she knows is on his shit due to one bad day. Unfortunately you have to mold yourself through pain and work to get that strength before they can open their heart to love the rest. If that strength completely fades it gets harder for them to see much else.
LittleGanymede 5y ago
Isn't that like a escort that comes back after not having all the money because she believes you'll get the money later?
Escorts and customers develop relationships. Some escorts may continue escorting for a man who can't pay right away because he knows he is good for it and she doesn't want to permanently burn a bridge.
Aaron_Aero 5y ago
Not really. Girls don’t care about what you’ll be but what you are rn. What I’m saying is men love beauty and feminine softeness but women love strength which is attached to masculine energy which is about molding and getting shit done. You’re in anger phase man. I’m sure it’ll probably pass. Like I said I feel the same but women do love, but they can’t love a slob with a heart of gold. At least the douchbag has strength. Just like YOU can’t get with a loyal fat chick (cause she’s not beautiful or feminine due to the fact she’s wider and heavy/not beautifully feminine, unless you’re ok settling). Love isn’t really unconditional period regardless of gender.
Bedtimeshine 5y ago
Romantic love (being “in love”) is the most conditional thing in the universe. By far.
LittleGanymede 5y ago
I would be perfectly happy with a fat chick who was otherwise everything I wanted. Her being the type of person I'd want would mean that she work on being healthier.
I'm not really angry. I'm just bummed out. I don't feel anger at women, more like...disappointment.
I fail to see how that is different from a prostitute. The prostitute wants you for the money you have "right now." And a prostitute that you build a good relationship with can give you a freebee with expect to pay later. IF a prostitute does that, what differentiates her from how women "love?"
Aaron_Aero 5y ago
I don’t have all the answers man. I’m still lost in my flaws and insecurities myself. I wish the world was like Disney or a rom com but it’s not. Do what you want with what you know. You sound like a high value dude. Either find your semi “close enough” unicorn or just fuck hoes get money. That’s it.
LittleGanymede 5y ago
I'm thinking about going to live someplace near Mexico and hire a live in house nanny/maid to service me on the side.
redvelvet_oreo 5y ago
You need to accept this. You have been drowned in social conditioning of thinking women are romantics but they are not. The above comment is correct if you want to keep your women you need to stay her best option. Women shouldnt be your mission but the idea that you need to stay her best option should drive you to be the best you can be (stay fit, get a good career, be better than your average) Mostly for your self but if you want to be committed you need to realize you need to stay on top of your game. That works better for you in the long run it also opens up options for you incase it dosent work out for whatever reason.
Alot of guys once married drop the ball and its over. They get fat, lazy and comfortable. Which is a mistake for so many reasons. If you want to have kids why would you want to be a slob? You should be at you at your max to raise your kids.
LittleGanymede 5y ago
There is a different in being a slob and not working all the time to be the absolute best version of yourself. Sometimes you just want to relax. Especially if you've earned it.
redvelvet_oreo 5y ago
dude it just sounds like your looking for an excuse to not do shit. Life is not black and white at all. Theres going to be times your not working out all the time. there is going to be times you focus less on your career. No one is perfect but dont let that be the excuse for you to never get back on your shit. Remember no one in this life owes you anything. You want something you have to go out and get it.
This is the part where you learn to be an actual MAN is fucking hard. Its never easy. Its easy to be a beta soy faggot that plays video games all day or drinks a beer every time he has had a "hard day" or the second something stress's them out. Now quit your fantasy bitching. You already have seen what TRP is. Now you need to decided if your going to actually swallow the pill and not a load of some other chads cum.
Man the fuck up bruh.
LittleGanymede 5y ago
"Not do shit?"
Maybe not do shit that YOU value. I've never "not done shit" in my life. Everything I've done in my life has had meaning and purpose whether or not you can see it.
redvelvet_oreo 5y ago
Yeah it sounds like your life mission is to swallow chads cum off some sluts clit.
If you have it all figured out why are you even posting on here? You already know the Disney fairy tale is bullshit. If you cant accept that being a man is what will keep a woman around (for the most part) then go choke yourself and cough up the red pill and go swallow the blue pill. It sounds like thatss what you want.
LittleGanymede 5y ago
Just for different perspectives. I wanted to be wrong. Now that I know I'm right I'm just going to focus on my career and investments so I can get enough money to afford escorts and a house maid.
redvelvet_oreo 5y ago
I'm trying to not be a dick. You sound like a prisoner to your own mind and logic.
Not everything makes sense the way it should. If you really wanna know the truth go field test the theory. Thats how i gained acceptance when I read TRP. I didnt waste time brain fucking every post. I tested everything after I read it. I was curious. Nothing failed me at all. Im currently in a LTR for almost 3 years now. Honestly if it wasnt for TRP it would not have lasted this long and it would not be as good as it honestly speaking. Our relationship is healthy because i know how to go about being a man.
Just last night we went out to eat at a nice fancy 5 star steakhouse in the big apple. We got seated in between a row of 5 couples. The ones directly next to us was a married guy with what looked like a sugar 'lady' (she looked old) but she was indeed his wife after hearing the lack of conversation.
The other was an awkward couple discussing there uber ratings in a very serious monotone conversation.
Then there was us. Everyone seemed to be interested in what we were talking about and listiening to our conversation. My LTR was having fun. I would make outlandish comments that guys wouldnt dare to say in this kind of setting. I would openly tease her. We were having a good time and she paid for my meal.
The point is that I have been the awkward date and I could have been the married betabux fool who never had any chemistry with his wife that is probably fucking the doorman of a fancy luxury apartment but im not and im forever grateful for what I learned here. It was almost like a juxtaposition of what life was and what life could have been and what it is presently.
LittleGanymede 5y ago
I fail to see how this differs from an escort service?
redvelvet_oreo 5y ago
I have banged many hired guns. Alot of them actually like me believe it or not but I would never pursue anything with a hired gun. I would say that if you bang escorts who have no interest in you besides your money you will get numb from just cumming in a rent a hole. Hired guns have their place. Gaming girls and having ONS has its place to but you will get to a point where you might want something more. Im not saying get married but having scattered LTRs is healthy for you as well.
Fucking someone you actually have a connection with is different from fucking a whore. Like I said dude stop brain fucking this whole thing and go live a little. Go bang an escort, go successfully game a girl and bang her. Then go find a LTR. Then see what you prefer.
Seriously though after having this short exchange with you, you sound like your stuck in the anger phase. It might take a while to fizzle out but at the end you just accept women for what they are. Men have their ways also. Men can be just as hypergamous as women once they become high value and high status. Its not a one way street its just easier for women to do so.
You need to work on your self though. You sound very defensive and bitter. Your not going to get far with that attitude.
LittleGanymede 5y ago
So you can't actually quantify what makes fucking an escort different than a LTR. Just...trust you?
What about a live in maid you fuck on the side who likes that you provide her comfort and you both get along?
I'm going to ignore the assumption you made about my character because they don't help in any way and are non sequitors.
Bedtimeshine 5y ago
Life is extremely black and white
redvelvet_oreo 5y ago
Then it’s turns Grey.
Bedtimeshine 5y ago
Nope... everything in a relationship and in life is exactly one thing. Nothing is confusing. Anyone who says life isn’t black and white is wishy washy themselves and can’t handle their shit.
redvelvet_oreo 5y ago
I guess you have it all figured out then? When is your book coming out?
I try to check my ego with some of you guys on asktrp but dudes like you read TRP (probably being the first thing you read in your life besides highschool literature) and think you have everything all figured out. TRP is a step in the right direction. It explains sexual strategy and how to become a better version of yourself. How to be come a man. That doesn't mean everything just falls into place. Your mistaken if you think life is as simple as just being black and white. If it wasn't the world wouldn't have half the issues it does now.
But fuck it maybe im wrong. Maybe its Jesus behind that keyboard.
Bedtimeshine 5y ago
Give me an example of something in your life or someone’s else life or relationship that wasn’t black and white...
pascuccired 5y ago
Thanks Shakespeare! Now go back to lifting and forget about this shit.
LittleGanymede 5y ago
I lift with my brain. Not thinking is how you end up divorce raped.
pascuccired 5y ago
And overthinking is how you end up suicidal. NOW GO LIFT THOSE FUCKING WEIGHTS!
LittleGanymede 5y ago
Overthinking things is how I survived my suicidial period during my blue pill days.
I do life weights.
pascuccired 5y ago
You seem pretty suicidal right now.
LittleGanymede 5y ago
Are you ok?
pascuccired 5y ago
Yes Shakespeare ????
LittleGanymede 5y ago
Are you sure? You were projecting some suicidal thoughts pretty hard just now.
jakethesnake5000 5y ago
All women are hypergamous, it’s their nature. Just like birds fly and fish swim, and we can’t hold that against them. But at least you understand it which most men don’t, and women for that matter. So you just have to accept it and use it to your advantage when pursuing women.
Regarding love, love runs downstream. Women are very capable of love it’s just not what you were conditioned to believe. Men love women, lithe same way women love their children. Women are capable of loving men the same way they love their children. It’s your job to make her respect you; from respect comes love.
imtheoneimmortal 5y ago
that's the nature, you hate or love
pame12 5y ago
Maybe you could try to adopt a daughter? At least that way the connection will become more unique as she grows up with you.
LittleGanymede 5y ago
I'm adopting a boy. Teach him how to succeed in this world and how to protect himself.
I wouldn't even know what to do with a girl knowing she is going to grow up to be extremely self centered and hypergamous. I'd try to treat her right and prepare her for the world by teaching her responsibility. But then all my teachings would most likely be thrown out the window when she grows up and sees that life is essentially on easy mode for her from 18-25.
I'd do a lot more good with the boy I feel.
pame12 5y ago
Yeah, I guess though some people like a challenge, lol.
LittleGanymede 5y ago
It's not about a challenge. A challenge is something you can actually win.
Red_Ninja7 5y ago
Wanting to 'open up ' and 'be intimate' are due to social conditioning and emotional neediness. They don't work well in the long run with women. This need is just something you need to work through and be rid of. Women are a nice complement to a man's life, but of you have an emotional 'need' for them you are on trouble.
Notreallyme001 5y ago
Enjoy your turn.
​
You're focused on the "textbook" definition of intimacy, companionship, and love. Explore women, date around, and discover the true meaning of those words. After you have internalized it, you'll break your BP fantasy. For now, enjoy "she's not yours, only your turn" and spin as much as you can humanly handle.
LittleGanymede 5y ago
The BP fantasy is already broken for me. It has been for a long time. I'm just trying to find the best path to follow given reality.
Anon241469 5y ago
Well, I can love a really cute and cuddly cat. I can love it on the rare occasions that it sits on my lap and purrs. But cats are skiddish, and some cats require a lot more time to earn trust. The love for a cat might not be the same as the love for a brother, or the love for a friend, or the love for a parent... but it’s some kind of love. If you can love a cat, you can love a girl. Just make sure it’s not oneitis love; that shit will fuck you up and make her run away faster than Usain bolt during the Olympics.
LittleGanymede 5y ago
What's the difference between love and affection? Or "love and like?"
If I exchanged the word love in your sentence for like, functionally what would change ?
Anon241469 5y ago
love, affection, and like CAN be very similar, but they can also be very different. I don't show affection for chocolate ice cream, but I sure do like it! I don't show affection for my male buddies, but I sure do love 'em. With women, girls, affection should come LAST. If you want a different perspective that I think can still be considered "Red Pill," but replaces much of the misogynistic "hold frame" "dark triad" "HB8" verbage with regular words, there's a book called "The System" by Doc Love. The System - Amazon . There is no "holding frame" if you shift your focus. Shift it away from your own attitude and behavior, and towards their behaviors, and their attitudes. Isn't that how it should be anyway? Why is your focus on your emotions, your "frame," your feelings, your lack of feelings, your job stability? Maybe you should be critically, rationally focused on HER feelings, and HER attitude, cuz if she's not head-over-heels madly crazy in love with you, if she's not infatuated thinking about you 24/7 hoping every second of the day to get a text message or a phone call from you and only you, then how long will it last, before she's thinking about some other guy? If she doesn't feel that way about you, do you really truly want to be with her? Wouldn't you want to be with someone who DOES feel that way? And IF SHE IS head-over-heels crazy about you, THEN RELAX AND HAVE A FUCKING BEER!
In short, don't make her out to be your momma.
LittleGanymede 5y ago
Shift my focus away from myself and towards her? No thanks. I value myself too highly to base myself in any way on a woman's judgement.
Anon241469 5y ago
Not her JUDGEMENT, you idiot; that's still a focus on you. Listen to yourself: "I value myself too highly." Who's the subject of that sentence? You! True RedPill would be naturally realizing things like, "hmmm... Allison didn't answer my phone call and hasn't called me back. She's not interested. I'll go for somebody else." Or, "Hmm... Sarah gives much better blowjobs than Kellie, so I'll see Sarah tonight." Or, "Lexi invited me to join her for an all-inclusive resort vacation in the Bahamas, and she just wants to stay in bed with me the whole time. She really likes me." Or, "Kelly and Mary have really great chemistry during our threesomes, but Susan never plays with another girl. Bye bye, Susan." Was "I" the subject in any of those thoughts? No! Were they selfish thoughts? Hell ya. Where was the focus? The focus was on HER, and her actions. Why? Because I want what I want, and if she's not giving it then obviously I have to go to somebody else!
Who do you think likes me more? Allison, who didn't answer my phone calls, or Sarah, who gives me lots of enthusiastic blowjobs? How do you know?
Which girl in your life likes you the most? How do you know? Does she like you as much as you want her to? Does she give you as many blowjobs as you want? Does her pussy get wet with anticipation during foreplay, or is she dry like a phony prostitute?
LittleGanymede 5y ago
This didn't help at all. Just common sense.
Anon241469 5y ago
You really think this is COMMON sense? How often does a naive young man go on a date with a cute girl hoping to gain her acceptance. How often do guys go on dates, hoping that he’s making all the right moves, hoping that he’s “holding frame” well enough? How often does he go on reddit to ask if he could have made a better move? If he should have texted something differently?
Almost ALL questions on TRP don’t need to be asked. Just ask yourself “if she’s as interested in me as I am in her, would she behave this way?”
LittleGanymede 5y ago
Your post made it seems like every guy had optiosn and every guy is choosing the worth option out of the options he has.
If a guy is dating two women and one gives amazing blowjobs and doesn't nag and he gets along with her, and the other is bossy and they have nothing in common. 10 times out of 10 he'll go for the girl giving blowjobs.
That's common sense.
Ricklogical 5y ago
With my mouth and these two hands.
Lambdal7 5y ago
There are also plenty of women who stay and care for their husband despite them not being able to provide for them anymore.
It’s not the case for most, but still for many.
LittleGanymede 5y ago
Those husbands still provide something.
Lambdal7 5y ago
No, plenty of poor quadriplegic men who are cared for and provide nothing except love.
For some women it’s enough.
LittleGanymede 5y ago
So they don't provide emotional support?
So women care for vegetables for 10, 20, 30 years straight while never cheating?
Lambdal7 5y ago
It’s common that after a few years the couple decides that the woman can satisfy her sexual urges elsewhere, though they still care for their husband, because sex with others doesn’t have to so anything with love and it’s part of them.
It’s not super often, but these stories still happen in the millions.
MrHouse2281 5y ago
Make good friends and "love" them instead of your mrs.
LittleGanymede 5y ago
Sounds like too much drama waiting to happen. Unless she agreed that I get to fuck on the side and she doesn't.
MrHouse2281 5y ago
I don't mean sexually. I mean literally have a strong friend group and treat them like a modern day tribe.
LittleGanymede 5y ago
You lost me. I fail to see how this substitutes for intimacy.
Lyxeka 5y ago
Then you need to reevalutate your understanding of intimacy, because sex and intimacy arent the same.
LittleGanymede 5y ago
Define intimacy.
Lyxeka 5y ago
Why dont you fucking google it
LittleGanymede 5y ago
If you are redpilled you know that definition are absolutle garbage since most are blue pilled.
Lyxeka 5y ago
Dont try to gatekeep "being redpilled" when you dont have a thorough understanding of the sidebar. Your post asks about loving hypergamous women, which shows your ignorance.
All women are hypergamous, and you need to love them for that, not regardless of that, because its reliable, like the laws of gravity.
LittleGanymede 5y ago
That's absolutely stupid. Reading the sidebar isn't going to make me love someone who has traits that are toxic.
I don't love dogs because they can bite me. I can love them DESPITE that possibillty. But I'm not giong to love them because of that.
[deleted] 5y ago
I think you answered the question yourself. If you know she's there for superficial reasons, then it should be obvious that true intimacy cannot be achieved.
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I think that can be turned around. What does she need to do to hold your affection? My guess is you can list a couple things. How is that not glorified prostitution?
I think your problem is that you are still inherently disillusioned by the fact that love and affection are transactional in nature, that they are not ethereal, mystical concepts like the Disney movies would suggest. The truth is that intimacy with women is very well possible once you accept reality for what it is and cease the anger towards their nature and your own, I would even argue that it breeds a form of intimacy which is far stronger than any other, because its one grounded in realistic expectations.
​
​
But don't you see? Precisely your acceptance of the truth and subsequently becoming more confident and succesful IS what makes you a decent person. These traits you describe are, in fact, not superficial at all. They are deeply sought after traits in any person, male or female, precisely because they are such reliable qualifiers that show that you aren't a lazy, needy piece of shit. You know who I'm talking about, maybe you were one of them, the sad sacks of human refuse that sit on the couch watching Netflix and somehow have internalized that that makes them an awesome person because they're 'just being who they are'. What does it say about you as a person when you think that this kind of stagnation makes you equally worthy of the attention of women as guys who actively better themselves every day and refuse to let their life pass them by?
I think you are still harboring some anger because of the 'old' you whispering into your ear that these women don't deserve your attention now that you've made some progress and they suddenly want you. This is a chain of thought that implies that the 'old' you was just as worthy of love as the 'new' you.
If you're brutally honest with yourself, do you really believe that?
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LittleGanymede 5y ago
By this logic then I should also love a prostitute or escort for the intimacy she gives me for my money. It is a transaction after all. That's actually what I've been thinking about. Getting a house maid to service me on the side. Probably costs just as much as actually pursuing some women, and if things go poorly I can just fire her.
But don't you see? Precisely your acceptance of the truth and subsequently becoming more confident and succesful IS what makes you a decent person. These traits you describe are, in fact, not superficial at all. They are deeply sought after traits in any person, male or female, precisely because they are such reliable qualifiers that show that you aren't a lazy, needy piece of shit. You know who I'm talking about, maybe you were one of them, the sad sacks of human refuse that sit on the couch watching Netflix and somehow have internalized that that makes them an awesome person because they're 'just being who they are'. What does it say about you as a person when you think that this kind of stagnation makes you equally worthy of the attention of women as guys who actively better themselves every day and refuse to let their life pass them by?
We'll have to disagree. Being financially successful does not, I repeat, DOES NOT make you a good person.
If you're brutally honest with yourself, do you really believe that?
Yes I do actually. In fact the old me would have made a better partner. The current me right now, I'll just say I can't imagine any woman wanting to put up with my shit. I right now do not compromise, hell I couldn't even be bothered to listen to women whine about their problems.
The old me is who women should value because the old me would be the one to support them and love them unditionally. The old me is the type of men that all the Disney princess' fell for.
The current me is an asshole. I wouldn't want to date me. If I were a women I'd want to date old me. But I'm not hypergamous in the way that women are.
[deleted] 5y ago
You forget, however, that in the Disney movies there is often a form of heroism present where the prince 'wins' the princess by performing some grand feat, like slaying a dragon or whatever. A lot of these stories involve the metaphor of the 'prince' getting the 'princess' once he stops being a weak pushover and faces his personal challenge head-on.
When you say the old you is the one that should have been valued because you would have supported and loved a woman unconditionally, can't you see that this is giving what you think they want for free? Things that are given for free rarely have value, so why blame the women for judging it to have none?
This was not what I meant, I apologize for the miscommunication. What I meant was that aiming towards something, whatever this might be for you personally, makes you an objectively better person than someone who isn't. This may sound strange and counterintuitive, but I genuinely believe that.
LittleGanymede 5y ago
When you say the old you is the one that should have been valued because you would have supported and loved a woman unconditionally, can't you see that this is giving what you think they want for free? Things that are given for free rarely have value, so why blame the women for judging it to have none?
My favorite Disney movie is Beauty and the Beast. In beauty in the beast she doesn't love him because he has money, or charisma, hell, she doesn't even grow to love him because he saved her.
She loves him because he is "sweet, and almost kind. He is dear, and unsure."
She loves him because she sees that he is a good person. She loves him for who he is. Because of who he is he does "nice" things for her.
This is the Disney fantasy.
Kindness isn't nothing. It's what should be valued. Kindness, compassion, charity, selflessness. These are real virtues. Yet women simply don't value them.
Again this is very subjective. What if my aim doesn't actually produce money? What if my aim is to be a mountain climber and it doen't product money.
That's not going to be attractive to a women especially if she doesn't value mountain climbing.
What this really means in terms of attraction is an aim that SHE APPROVES OF. She doesn't care about personal goals that she can't personally benefit from.
Or a goal that is unlikely. Like a guy who wants to be a pro gamer and so sits on the couch and practices.
What she is attracted to is success and the HOPE that you will be successful.
This "attracted to goals' bullshit is just that. Bullshit. They are only attracted to goals they personally can benefit from.
[deleted] 5y ago
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LittleGanymede 5y ago
It's actually the exact opposite. Belle didn't like beast because he exhibited traits that a hypergamous woman would like. Guston was the one who a woman would go after if she were hypergamous.
Bell saught loyalty, kindness "sweet, almost kind, dear, and unsure."
She saught beta traits. Rewatch the movie. Hell, sing the songs.
The hypergamous women were those three women fawning over Gaston, not belle. Being "civil" is not something that satisfies hypergamy. That's just basic decency. And we all know that women don't find basic decency attractive.
[deleted] 5y ago
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LittleGanymede 5y ago
I really apprecaite this post. Take my upvote.
I have a problem with this. The family courts. If I let a woman have my bio children she then takes all the power in the relationship and I am not garenteed custody of my children if she wants to leave.
Marriage is "supposed" to garentee this but we know it doesn't. Judges throw out prenups.
Also I'm never getting married. That's another way to lose all the power in the relatiionship.
So there is my dilemna. I can't have children with a women because she can then take my children away with no recourse, especially if I'm not married to her which I won't ever be.
So how can I reconsile loving a woman? Even given the extremely shallow definition of love that really exists which is another word for "like a lot."
soredx 5y ago
Maybe you should move to a country where the laws are beneficial to fathers...
LittleGanymede 5y ago
That's expensive and I don't know a country like that. I've looked. Maybe African countries but I wouldn't want to live there.
Much easier to just not marry and not have bio children.
[deleted] 5y ago
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LittleGanymede 5y ago
I'm adopting.
LittleGanymede 5y ago
You have problably made the best argument I've heard for marriage.
Except you aren't guaranteed custody of your children even in marriage. And divorces can be very traumatic to children.
If you were absolutely garenteed equal custody of your children in all cases than that would be a great argument to have children.
But the simple reality is that men are not. AT least in America.
GeneralBot 5y ago
Hey! You have made a common spelling error. The word 'dilemna' is actually spelled 'dilemma'. Hope this helps!
GeneralBot 5y ago
Hey! You have made a common spelling error. The word 'dilemna' is actually spelled 'dilemma'. Hope this helps!
Bedtimeshine 5y ago
The overwhelming majority of marriages fail due to lack of attraction and no other reason. Attraction. Is. Everything. And usually it’s because the wife doesn’t want to fuck the husband anymore. And in this day in age, if you get divorced raped... it’s 100% on you and I don’t feel an ounce of sympathy.
LittleGanymede 5y ago
This is simply false. It's stated "financial reasons."
Bedtimeshine 5y ago
I don’t give a shit what is stated. Red pill is about truth. How could ending a marriage improve finances? People lose attraction or gain it for someone else, then lose emotions, then want out. Women initiate 80% of divorces because they don’t wanna fuck their husbands anymore. Simple as that. That’s the long and short of it... the whole story. Thats why the prevailing wisdom around here is not to worry about making your wife “happy,” Just worry about keeping her attracted. The only way finances come into play is if the husband doesn’t make enough money to keep her respect which negatively affects her attraction to him
inspiredshane 5y ago
The fact that it causes you revulsion is proof positive that you’re subconsciously feeling that these women will “contaminate” you somehow. Avoiding dangerous and contaminating things is the primary human cause of disgust.
But women are only disgusting when viewed as not living up to the standards of the male perspective of love. Which they cannot do, because they cannot see the world in that way. For you to place that impossible standard on them is not only unfair to them, but also unfair to yourself. You’re, by being disgusted, going to distance yourself from them. But being close to them is what you really want.
What you see isn’t the truth, per se, but your estimation of it. You have the right and ability to change that estimation as you see fit.
What you need to do is break up with that imaginary ideal in your head, because no woman is going to live up to it. The one who can literally doesn’t exist.
Not only does this cause you pointless suffering, but you’ll also never get to interact with a real, flawed, imperfect as fuck human being. Because in your mind, all you’re after is that imaginary Goddess that only exists in your mind.
Instead, learn to accept the truth. You don’t have to like it. Hell, feel free to hate it. But accept it, and be happy with the fleeting moments of joy that you find while interacting with them and fucking them, and protect yourself from the sinister, hidden side of women, because you ignore that at your own peril.
LittleGanymede 5y ago
What I'm trying to do is figure out why I should work and put the effort in to date women when I can just buy a escort or a hired maid to give me the exact same thing with less effort and drama.
inspiredshane 5y ago
True true. They’ll make you pay for it one way or the other.
You can be with a lot of women if you have no MONEY, but you’ll still pay for it with time and effort. But as you get better, it takes far, FAR less time and effort than it does when you first start. And you can’t marry an escort. A lot of guys still want to do that and have kids, just because.
And some people thrive on the drama. It just depends on how you want to react to the truth, more than the truth itself. The truth of it just is. As disgusting as we can make them, especially in bed, we still find them beautiful and enjoy them at the same time.
LittleGanymede 5y ago
This is true for escorts as well. If you save your money from having a girlfriend or wife and instead focus on the thing that gets you escorts, i.e., money, the less energy and time you have to put into affording an escort. Hell eventually you could afford a permant escort because you have so much money because that's what you focused on instead of focusing on the traits required to get women to like your characteristics.
inspiredshane 5y ago
A permanent escort? Isn’t that a wife?
LittleGanymede 5y ago
House maid.
inspiredshane 5y ago
So a Tradcon wife?
LittleGanymede 5y ago
No. Tradcon wife's don't fuck their husbands. What fantasy are you living in?
inspiredshane 5y ago
Ahhh yep. You got me. Lol
LittleGanymede 5y ago
LOL!
Musicgoon 5y ago
Look. You're Not in the Acceptance phase of TRP. It's easy to cling to the Disney idea of love. It doesn't exist and it's a lie.
Understand that you fell in love with an idea. Not a person. You're love and fulfillment should be your growth as a man. We as men should be following a bigger mission rather than seeking idealized fake love.
Start slow. Lift. Understand you'll have setbacks. Understand that Hypergamy will still be there and you can't prevent branch swinging. Just remember this is just nature. You can't be mad at a shark for living in the sea...
Give yourself time brother.
LittleGanymede 5y ago
I'm not mad at anyone.
Musicgoon 5y ago
It's an analogy for being upset with something that is the truth of nature...
LittleGanymede 5y ago
I still wouldn't call it anger or rage. Disappointment is a type of "being upset." I've never heard redpill rage referred to as anything but anger.
menial_optimist 5y ago
Dude you obviously haven't even read The Rational Male by Rollo Tomassi which is like #1 on the reading list for people new to RP otherwise you would have at least heard of the concept that women are incapable of loving us in the way we think we ought to be loved. Read that book and read more. Doors will begin opening.
Don't be discouraged from enjoying and loving women just because you found out a hard truth and your pre-programmed belief system has been shattered. Rebuild yourself from the ground up and you can be happy with women by accepting their nature for what it is.
This is why I don't understang MGTOW dudes. Their blue pilled belief system is shattered and instead of rebuilding they just opt out of a wonderful part of human existence.
LittleGanymede 5y ago
I already know the truths. I found out years ago. You don't understand MGTOW at all.
menial_optimist 5y ago
Enlighten me o wise sensei on the definition of MGTOW.
LittleGanymede 5y ago
Well first I have to find out what you believe it is so I can find out why exactly you misunderstand so much young Padawan.