I agree with all the theory on TRP but people say political things here that I've cut friends out of my life for saying in real life. Is there anyone far on the left-wing here at all?
UPDATE: I've got to say guys, this is the only place on the internet I think I've ever heard a convincing argument from the right-wing. Bravo.
[deleted] 9y ago
Meh, just ignore the political nonsense on TRP. You can be more left-leaning than Karl Marx and still apply the principles.
VasiliyZaitzev 9y ago
There are going to be people who disagree with you in life. Get over it. I am mostly Center-Right (I want my taxes low, and hands off my guns, but don't care about other people's sex lives, and no stupid wars, thanks, etc.).
Guess what? A lot of my friends are liberals. How can this be? B/C they and I understand that the measure of a man is not his political views, and bouncing someone from your life for thinking differently from you (unless they won't shut up about it, ever) is just a sign of Moral Vanity.
NovaDominus 9y ago
The people I've cut out were cut out because they implied that refugees should be killed.
VasiliyZaitzev 9y ago
That didn't seem to be the tenor of your original post. That said, as a nation we don't seem to have much of a sense of nuance anymore, thus, if one diverges from "The Narrative" one can expect the Witchfinder General and the Twats on Twitter to not only cast you out of civilized society, but also mount a campaign to get you fired, etc.
To me, there's a difference b/w someone blowing off steam in an ignorant way, and someone who really means it, but we're so caught up in our own Moral Vanity now, that there isn't room for the slightest divergence of opinion. To me, it is entirely defensible for the nations of southeastern Europe, who aren't all that wealthy to begin with, to say, "Hey, Sweden and Germany! If you want to open up your borders b/c of your FEELZ, great, but how about you don't impose a bunch of costs on us b/c of it?"
blackhawks93 9y ago
Yes. But stop assuming everyone is one or the other. People can have a spectrum of beliefs.
[deleted] 9y ago
I considered myself left-wing until I found trp. I then realized that left-wing ideology is more or less a 'in a perfect world' ideology.
The dichotomy is ridiculous and judging by your comments in this post you're deluded. Yes the military is awful, and I also would not want to be friends with someone that wants to kill someone they have never met... But to say you've "removed" people from your life because they have conservative views is ludicrous.
Do you really think the 18 year old army recruit is thinking "fuck yes let's slit some foreign kids' throats"? Do you not see that individuals' personal situation, his environment, the media playing a role in his decision? Are you that near-sighted?
And then you say you think the security net should be wider? In a country where you can choose, out of apathy and laziness, NOT to earn a living and still manage to get to 400lbs on welfare and then QUALIFY FOR DISABILITY BECAUSE YOU'RE 400lbs and deemed " unfit to work. "
I'm not a hardcore conservative. I'm not hating on you personally... Just take those rose-colored glasses off and realize that if you want to make positive change you need to see the world for what it is first.
questionsandanswers2 9y ago
Far left winger here on most topics. Curious what are some of political things people have said that you don't like?
NovaDominus 9y ago
People don't seem to like immigration much, I've lost friends over that in real life. I specifically remember someone saying something to the effect of "never give away any resources without equal or greater compensation" and I tend to give money to homeless people without a second thought. TRP doesn't seem to like welfare, I think the safety net should be stronger. TRP likes the military, I don't like the military. I don't think I've read anything political that I've agreed with aside from things about personal freedom.
[deleted] 9y ago
I can't believe you've lost friends over politics. You really must take that shit to heart. I'm best describes as a libertarian, and I'm friends with full on socialists. Their views, to me, are absolutely batshit, but I'm not going to stop being their friend over political stances.
NovaDominus 9y ago
I don't care about most politics, I care about people. I live in the UK, and the refugees coming from Syria are a massive topic of debate right now. A large amount of the refugees are coming over the Mediterranean and a disturbing number of my friends have said something to the effect of "we should just sink the boats." They aren't my friends anymore. That's inhuman, it's disgusting on a scale I can't even believe.
[deleted] 9y ago
I think someone else already said it, but you don't see any potential negatives of taking in hundreds of thousands of uneducated people?
I'm not saying anything about the positions, just saying it seems like you throw friends away over something trivial. Fact is you and your friends have no say about the refugees, so it's not like your friend's, who are probably joking (they may say it but do you think they'd sink the boat if given the means? Probably not), can stop them if they wanted to.
Maybe I'm approaching this far too logically, but if you seriously had good friends and dropped them over dumb opinions that have no bearing on the world you need to realize the world is full of people who will disagree with you. You can't just get rid of them.
blackhawks93 9y ago
You sound like a good person but as someone who lives in a big city, please don't give to the homeless. I know it sounds cruel but that's why we have social safety nets and welfare and free housing. Homeless people have options but choose to not use them.
Immigration: what's wrong with a conservative view? I pay taxes, shouldn't every government decision be biased in the favor of its citizens? Yea letting everyone in would be nice, but Switzerland didn't become rich from having open borders and letting everyone in. Sometimes greatness requires exclusion of the poor and uneducated. It's shity to say but reality is shity. What is objectively right or desired isn't always practical. Plus people use the system.
NovaDominus 9y ago
What's wrong with a conservative view is that immigrants are just people. A different role of the dice and it would be them in the west and us trying to get here on a raft. I don't see why I should have any more right to live here than anyone else just by the fluke of having been born here.
OMGTRIGGERED 9y ago
That disproportionally take our tax money. Hispanics especially. And this occurs with children in the home, without and with 1 parent working while taking welfare. Stefan molyneux actually did an entire report with nothing but facts and stats. Truth is we just cant afford it. The money will run out. What happens then? Do we just ask them to leave and expect them to simply get up and go back? Nu uh. They're gonna stay and take and take and take. People are mad. Trump is winning because he's the only one appealing to the sentiment of the people.
Immigrants are people, but these people arent like european or asian immigrants (with extremely low welfare rates in comparison to blacks and hispanics). What you get from bringing in 3rd world people is 3rd world problems. Sweden didnt become the rape capital of europe for nothing, it was muslim "refugees". Same with the approximately 55 no go zones under control of muslim gangs. The UK pedophile rings are 75% muslim. Germany sees attacks constantly, recently a 4 year old was stoned for kicking the football of a group of migrant invaders. How about the video of migrants saying they should bring a girl in to fuck all 400 men that were staying at a center? Very few migrants assimilate, most just bring the 3rd world with them corroding our own societies and rule of law. See crime stats by race and ADJUST FOR POPULATION.
You have an ideal view of immigrants, go get some reality and get the fuck out of plebbit (aka liberal retard land) to get some politics.
Says you faggot, I'm not enough of a subhuman parasite to illegally cross borders to steal money from taxpayers. Theres also the mention that none of them avoid war, most arent really from syria and most keep fucking going to Sweden and Germoney for entitlements.
I dont see why i shouldnt have the right to kill women for not wearing burkas simply for not being born in saudi arabia.
You forget a lot of things man, like how your taxes go up, debt goes up, jobs decrease (all US job growth since 2000 went directly to immigrants, over 100k whites lost their job too, natives lose), schools get shittier as more kids and less resources come up, waiting times grow in hospitals... you dont see a lot of things that you really should be fucking seeing. Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about. Do some research and you'll notice most anything pro left is bullshit.
My question to you is, why should the work of our ancestors go to shit so they can mooch off of us and why should migrants come here when we have enough problems to take care of at home? California needs water, detroit is in shambles, tons of the US infrastructure needs to be repaired. Why put others first instead of yourself and the future of your children?
blackhawks93 9y ago
I agree with you but what if the immigrants don't have any education or skills? What if they aren't rich and need a job? Regular Americans need money for school, we need jobs. Why not help out the citizens first, since they pay taxes. The humanitarian approach is nice, but look at what is happening now with Sweden. People will abuse your kindness. We should let the people who have been here over a year or longer get citizenship, especially if they are Latino. As for Middle East refugees..... Maybe only the educated who have skills to offer. And require them to live in Detroit and Idaho and other areas that need good people. Immigration has its place but you have to be greedy at some point.
NovaDominus 9y ago
Same goes. Different roll of the dice and we're the poor, uneducated migrant. The people paying taxes in the U.S. deserve no better than these immigrants because the taxes they pay are reliant on an income they only have because they were born in the U.S. Americans and Europeans aren't special, just lucky. Where should the money come from? Warren Buffet and Donald Trump most likely, I have serious doubts they need it as much as immigrants do.
VasiliyZaitzev 9y ago
[RANT: ON]
Um, no. First, you've really been brainwashed. Second, we aren't 'just lucky'. We built this shit. It's ours. So yeah, we are fuckin' special. The US (honorable mention: Canada and Australia) took the detritus of Europe and built it into a mighty empire. If the Aztecs or the Incas could have come up with Nathan's Famous, Levi's Blue Jeans, Marilyn Monroe and the Infield Fly Rule (ok maybe not that last one) they would have. You really need to examine your own views on this.
There's a difference b/w being humanitarians and bankrupting ourselves to do it. Why should we? So liberals can 'feel good' about what 'good people' they are? And I notice you immediately want to impose costs on others.
Or you, for that matter. You are no doubt living better than people who have lost their homes to war. How many are you taking into your house? Or are burdens to be borne only by others?
BTW, do you know how many refugees the Arab Gulf States (Saudi, Qatar, Oman, UAE, etc.) have taken in? Last count: zero. Never mind that they basically have the same culture, religion, language, etc., etc. So who are the real 'infidels' again?
And what about legal immigrants? Why should the people who played by the rules get fucked over?
[RANT: OFF]
What We Should Be Doing: We should be setting up refugee processing centers on site and determining who actually is a refugee, and who just wants free stuff, and then dealing with folks accordingly.
questionsandanswers2 9y ago
I don't think any of these things would even remotely be considered "core" TRP.
At it's core, TRP is only about being the greatest person you can be. That includes learning about the reality of the dating/mating game between men and women.
Other than that, its your own personal sauce. I am sure there are some racists that are TRP and there are probably some Christians as well. TRP does not present a set of views that it considers "good" or even "moral". There is no morality built into TRP, some people will use the information to fuck wives and girlfriends only and others will avoid this. There are all kinds of flavors of people.
I would wager this was aimed at man/woman dynamic or a relationship in which case I would tend to agree. I doubt someone on TRP was saying "Don't give to charity!". In fact, I have seen multiple times the recommendation to volunteer your time to help others as it provides you with a lot of good emotions and social interaction.
Nope. If anything, it likes that most men come out of the military with lessons and traits that will help them be a stronger man. Beyond that, it doesn't care.
NovaDominus 9y ago
Oh no I don't believe these things are what TRP is about, I've just noticed that when politics is mentioned, it tends to be dead opposite of my opinion.
[deleted] 9y ago
I would go as far as TRP dislikes the direction the military is going. Not the concept of it or the men currently in service or completed service.
The problem with the current military is it is being feminized just like schools already have been. A feminized military will likely not perform well in the field and mixed units have already been proven to be less effective.
Particularly the case of the US military however most G8 countries are going through the same thing just slower or in different ways.
NovaDominus 9y ago
Well, I just dislike the military in general. I dislike the concept of the military. To join the military is to be willing to kill on command and I don't want to associate with anyone like that, I have a hard time with the knowledge that they even exist.
[deleted] 9y ago
Look at countries which have no practical military but have resources in history what happened to them?
They got invaded and were subjugated. This still happens today in Africa.
Civil wars and invasion wars are common in undeveloped nations and as a result more people suffer and die than having a modern military. Merely cause the major powers haven't had a non proxy war in almost 50 years doesn't mean that we wouldn't have one if suddenly we disarmed.
Removing the police force won't stop crime. Removing the military won't stop wars.
The world is a violent place and no amount of education or feel good stories will change that. All nature is survival first and civilization second.
NovaDominus 9y ago
I don't want to disarm entirely. I want a defensive military, MUCH smaller, at home. No more overseas bases.
[deleted] 9y ago
Then you will be in a situation like the Ukraine invade by your neighbour to set a buffer zone.
Overseas bases are buffer zones much like China is doing in the South China Sea with a bunch of do nothing island.
The farther your reach the safer your country.
Some of this is done through an alliance some through a treaty some through military bases.
Why would Turkey choose to ally it's with a country over 8,000 Miles away unless it was afford military and economic support. The short answer is it wouldn't.
The only way these nations will support the west is via protection. That protection is in the form of military, economic and trade policies and political gains on the world stage.
No one will side with the isolationist and by being the isolationist no one will trade or protect you. ultimately you will be attacked once a big enough dog wants a piece. Particularly if you shrink your forces.
We have mostly peace now because of the military upkeep not in spite of it.
vengefully_yours 9y ago
Have you ever heard of someone who is afraid of something because they don't know much, if anything, about it? You should have. Doubtful you realized it though.
That's what you're doing.
You've taken an idea and want to run with it to its ultimate conclusion, without having any idea of what it entails. That's OK, most young people are inexperienced and naive, while older people are also ignorant and easily led. Brain failures and a lack of knowledge is all that is.
I'm a veteran, did two wars and am rather unfond of war. One of them was ousting an invading force from a allied country, while the other was a for profit shit show. I've had my fill and I'd appreciate it if other countries could play nice so we could close everything and require a smaller budget. Sadly, that won't happen even if I believe in rainbow farts and cotton candy flavored unicorn spunk. I'd much rather we spent that money exploring the cosmos than blowing up goat herding brown people.
You see, you have grown up in an extremely safe place, and time. You've no idea of the depravity people are capable of, you think you do, but you're simply afraid and have been told we don't need a military. Someone you admire or who had authority over you set that thinking in motion, and you not having any reference other than your safe little world readily agreed. Ever after your confirmation bias keeps you thinking along similar lines. Don't worry, it happens to everyone. You're not special nor stupid, you're human and wired that way.
If you had grown up in a place where you were actually in danger, and help came from a uniformed group with guns, you'd have a different view. You've never known war, invasion, and the atrocities that come with them. Why? Simply because people are part of the most efficient, deadly, and powerful military in the world, and that military keeps belligerent leaders from starting shit like they did for eons prior to 1945.
The military you hate, want gone, and see no reason for (nice argument from ignorance if you use that one) is the reason you don't know war, and the nightmare that accompanies it.
Your ire should be directed towards politicians, because they're the ones who find ways to justify the absolutely mind numbing expensethat feeds or military. They go so far as to manufacture threats (Iraq with wmds and involvement in 9/11) to justify invading places where there is profit to be made. Politicians declare go here and kill the people not like us, yet you deride the military. That isn't logical, that is emotional thinking, feminine thinking. Don't blame the responsible party, blame the people who are caught in it.
History is rife with examples of what happens when everyone is on the same level militarily. Never before in the history of man have we gone so long without major bullshit conflicts started by assholes with a need for justification.
You can hope that people won't try to take what you have, but if you are unable to defend yourself, they will take it and you can't stop them. Those people in uniform are responsible for the safe world you grew up in, and you hate/dislike them for it. Curious that.
You have no idea what that life is like, what it means to be part of that branch of our government. The why is because they're doing their job. The how they're doing their job is very different. I'd surmise a big part of that is due to fear, you don't want to go, so if you make it go away you won't have to go. You don't have to go, but if we did what you say, but the time you're 25, you would be going.
Why? Because people are dicks. You haven't lived it, you're not a survivor of dick behavior, because others go and keep the dicks from fucking you. The really humorous part to me is that the majority of military jobs do not involve killing, or even carrying guns. Logistics is far more important and prevalent. But you have this idea that every military member is living a part in the movie Platoon.
It's OK, you don't have to go. I want it smaller as well, but Si vis pacem, para bellum when dealing with humans, that's how it works.
VasiliyZaitzev 9y ago
Thank you for your service.
V/Z
vengefully_yours 9y ago
You're welcome. Also Simo Hayha > everyone
VasiliyZaitzev 9y ago
While Hayha was indeed a great sniper, he also had the advantage of shooting at non-camo targets against a white background after Soviet soldiers were not issued winter camo. That does make it easier.
vengefully_yours 9y ago
Very much so, but the man was near perfect in his craft.
NovaDominus 9y ago
I want you to know I'm very impressed with this response, and it has influenced my opinion on some things to a degree. I have a lot of respect for you.
A few things:
I'm very aware that I live in an extraordinarily safe place and I'm very aware that people aren't nearly so lucky in other parts of the world. This is a fundamental part of my view on immigration - we should let them in, because unless we would be willing to live in their environment, we should not expect them to.
While I'm certain my experience of human depravity is non-existent when compared with yours, I know that it's there. I've forced myself to watch videos from the Islamic State and Chechnya. I've watched endless amounts of footage from Vietnam. Because I think it's dangerous to talk about war and conflict without knowing what it really is.
Don't worry I've got plenty of ire for politicians. The reason I dislike the military is that I can understand, to an extent, killing for resources. I can understand killing for wealth or territory or revenge or protection. I can even understand killing for an ideology to an extent. But I can't get my head around killing because a politician said so. Hitler would just have been a solitary sociopath if nobody listened to him - don't fear the leader, fear the crowd.
I'd take the prison time over service any day of the week, I've never even considered the idea that I might be conscripted, a fear of it is not part of my anti-military thinking.
I am starting to believe that people are dicks, my disappointment is overwhelming.
I know that most military jobs do not involve killing, I went to school someone who is now an Engineer for the military. But the fact of the matter is that every part of the military functions to improve the efficiency of the part that does the killing. That's not enough distinction for me.
All that being said, you have given me a lot to think about.
vengefully_yours 9y ago
How did Hitler gain control of the Reich? It wasn't the German army that put him in power. It was nationalism due to France and Britain exacting enormous war reparations leaving the country destitute after the first World War. The great depression was far worse in Germany, and Hitler took advantage with his brown shirts and rhetoric. German soldiers, sailors, and airmen were barred from being political party members.
You said it yourself, the mob rules. The military is not the mob, it's a tool (ours is a very well disciplined tool), a resource that operates at the behest of elected or appointed officials. For the military to go do anything, they need orders. From where do those orders emanate? A warlord? Dictator? Prime minister? President? Congress?
You won't find me disagreeing with you about the rampant misuse of military assets. There's no reason we should have invaded Iraq in 03. It's a useless gesture fighting the taliban simply because it's a religious extremist led insurgency. You'd have to eradicate everyone who thinks that religion is right or even worthwhile to make it stick. Hence, no reason to be there other than to stir shit up and justify spending. Spending that goes into the pockets of elected officials and business owners who supply the military, it's not just burned, someone is paid handsomely.
In WW2 Standard Oil (owned by the Rockefellers) was refueling German U boats out in the Atlantic. Profit over all else. That is how things work, the military is simply a means of making others wealthy because the citizenry elects greedy lawyers and business people into government office.
Going out and getting shot at for $1500 a month isn't very lucrative. Then if you get fucked up and can no longer work, the best you can hope for is $2800 a month to live on. That's about what 100% disability pays. It isn't much, hell in some places it would barely pay the rent. 90% disability pays less than $1900 a month, but you can still work. Beget book the cruise.
You blame the military for the actions of elected officials, when they get fucked harder than you can imagine.
Fischia_Il_Vento 9y ago
I can't speak for everyone but I've noticed that most of the political comments made here seem to be from people on the right as well. Coming from a European background, I'm very far left, although I line up more with Bolshevik Russia that modern lefties.
[deleted] 9y ago
States (all of them, ever) are altogether evil. Nationalism sucks. Left, right, or center makes no difference, its an illusion. Taxes are theft. Fuck the military and police too.
Ultimately, it is States that cause the most human misery. City-states, nation-states, empire-states, fuck them all.
All state are founded on mass murder (renamed 'war' and/or conquest) and endure through force, murder and massive theft. Obey or die.
Just look at what the State has done to men (and women) with the concept of 'feminism' alone. Who benefits from feminism? Men? ha! Women? oh please. The State alone benefits. That is purpose, divide (men and women) and conquer both.
NickCiufi 9y ago
I tend to lean Liberal on most political issues. You see a lot of Conservative RPers because people who have stuff tend to not want to share it involuntarily, which is a hallmark of most liberal politicians.
DreadLockedHaitian 9y ago
I'm a Democratic Socialist.
throwawaycomedian95 9y ago
You cut people out of your life for disagreeing with you? Idiot.