I'm currently in my early 30's, and recently I've been thinking a lot about getting married and having kids. TRP (rightly, IMO) warns of the dangers of marriage, but there are benefits both socially and personally IF I can mitigate some of the risk.
I can't see myself marrying any of the women I hook up with. Nothing wrong with them as plates or LTR, but even the younger ones (19 - 23) exhibit red flag behaviors that make me think they're not worth investing in. So while socially I'm successful with women, it feels kind of hollow, you know?
I also travel a fair amount for work, and recently had the pleasure of visiting Salt Lake City for the first time. The women were, in my admittedly fresh-off-the-plane eyes, exceptional. Younger women were modest, fit and attractive, and older women with multiple children still had good figures, deferred to their husbands and spent time on their appearances. As a society, they seemed to have figured out the man/woman dynamic.
So here are my questions, hoping some of you guys can help out:
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Has anyone here ever dated/married a traditional mormon girl? I'm talking ugly shoes, long skirt hanging out at the temple traditional - does it happen?
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Do mormon girls date outside their faith? If not, do that date converts? How involved in the faith does one have to be to "pass"?
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I'm an atheist, I wouldn't have a problem converting if necessary, as long as living as a mormon isn't too onerous. The liquor laws were kind of insane, and I gather coffee is a no-no. Is there anything else that might be a deal-breaker?
- Do I have a completely unrealistic and skewed perspective on mormon girls that I need to have beaten out of me? Because I'm seriously considering buying a vacation condo out there. At the very least I'd get some good skiing in.
edit: formatting
[deleted] 10y ago
My cousin (former hard core atheist) married into the church. If you're willing to convert (or live a lie) a Mormon wife is the perfect redpill wife. No joke.
My values don't align at all or I might consider it.
redpillromp 10y ago
How onerous is converting? I can give up coffee, and I don't mind not having alcohol in the house (although I may want to go out for a beer occasionally) Is your cousin happy with his choice? Are there any huge red flags I should know about?
[deleted] 10y ago
Dude you can't just "have a beer occasionally", it's no drinking. Period.
I'm really disturbed at your perception of this.
[deleted] 10y ago
Depends on how devout the woman you land is. My lifestyle didn't mesh with my cousins so we more or less drifted apart. He didn't drink much anyway, didn't like coffee, etc.
Don't really know the answer to that, I'd suggest researching via interwebs.
redpillromp 10y ago
Thanks, I appreciate it.
feminazis_stalk_me 10y ago
I live in a city with a very large Mormon population. You have to give the church 10% of your earnings, or do community service for the church equal to 10% of your earnings (they keep spreadsheets and bill you - you can be kicked out of church for not paying your 10%)
You will also have to abstain from alcohol, caffeine, cursing, Rated R movies etc. Mormons push the "wholesome" lifestyle to the extremes, leaving no room for vices. Consequently, most of them are the nicest, most generous people you'll ever meet - they live by the Golden Rule.
Mormons are very dedicated to their church, which, as far as I can tell, is unique. They believe in Jesus and believe he came to the Americas after his resurrection. They know this because their prophet, a swindler from Vermont, saw it in "visions".
They are "Modern day Saints". They believe that the man is the leader of the household, and that when they die, men will inherit their own world, or "Celestial Kingdom" to rule over. Women only get to the "Celestial Kingdom" if their husbands call her up by her secret name he gives her when they are married. If she's not a good, dutiful wife, there's a chance she can't get to heaven. If she divorces him, or him her, she won't get to the "Celestial Kingdom". Mormon religious services usually just focus around husbands leading their families in prayer, since each husband is seen as a "saint", they can dictate the prayers. Mormons who are excommunicated for pissing off the church elders or breaking rules will not get to their "Celestial Kingdoms".
They are encouraged to have as many kids as possible. The more kids you have, the more money the church gets in future 10% tithes - so they preach having as many litters as you can. Also, there is a closeness to their families that you don't often see outside of Mormonism.
These are my own personal observations that I've witnessed and heard from being around Mormons most of my life. They do seem to have hot wives and daughters, but at what cost? It doesn't seem to me like their religion is something you could half-ass and be successful with.
[deleted] 10y ago
Joseph Smith didn't get his revelations through "visions." An angel, maybe Gabriel or Michael, can't remember and don't care to look it up, revealed to Joseph where several golden plates, or scrolls, were buried. Those scrolls contained accounts of Jesus's visits to the Americas by the native American Indianans (not withstanding that there had never been Native Americans in the Vermont area with a written language). Using something, again I forget what, he was able to "see" these ancient languages rendered into English so he could copy them down. This became the Mormon Bible. As an interesting note, shortly after receiving the plates and making his translations and beginning his ministry, everything was stolen. But he didn't worry, the Angel showed him another set of plates, and again he was able to translate them into English. Subsequently, the originals were "located." The first Mormon Bible and the second were vastly different.
BoTuLoX 10y ago
Converting to a religion just to get a more submissive wife sounds pretty beta in my mind, but do as you see fit.
I'd rather try hunting for a wife in another country. If I were looking to get married, that is.
redpillromp 10y ago
I don't really want to leave the country - and honestly, what's the difference between traveling to wife shop vs. converting? They're both essentially the same, so if one is beta, then they both are.
BoTuLoX 10y ago
Because men are more than the pussy they fuck. Religion is one of the main driving forces of a man's ideology.
And I wasn't talking about moving yourself, but taking one to your country after you find one worth shit, compatible with you and willing to follow you.
redpillromp 10y ago
No shit men are more than the pussy we fuck, and as I've said before - that isn't my issue. I have higher standards for the pussy that gives birth to my children. Religion is the opiate of the masses - it's fine for dumbfucks or women, because it defines morality for them in a non-negotiable way. For men who want more from life, religion is a tool.
role_player 10y ago
I think you should read my IMA I did on this: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/dt04c/iama_atheist_who_masqueraded_as_a_fully_active/
Basically I am literally the exact person you need to talk to.
redpillromp 10y ago
Thank you! I'll read that after work. Mind if I PM you additional questions?
role_player 10y ago
Please do
[deleted] 10y ago
They take their faith seriously. So my only piece of advice if you decide to do it, is to take it seriously too.
My parents divorced largely because my dad was atheist while my mother was a pretty devout catholic (not even "strict", just very spiritual).
Think long and hard whether spending time at church and among religious people is something you can actually enjoy. You may be able to fake it for a while, but eventually you will have to "take the leap of faith" and commit or you will burn out.
redpillromp 10y ago
I wonder if it would be different with mormons because they place such a premium on converting you. I will definitely consider this though, I don't want a marriage with me, her and her God in it.
rademenes 10y ago
Yes, I have multiple friends that date or married mormon girls. However, none of them that traditional or conservative.
Yes they do date outside. The only issue can be with a temple wedding. Only mormons are allowed to be part of the ceremony. You can have second wedding outside the temple if you want your family or whoever else that's not mormon to participate.
It's not really a problem. Some might have a problem some might not. And no, you don't have to convert.
redpillromp 10y ago
Great reply, thanks.
Your friends who have dated mormon girls who aren't as traditional as I described, are they still more conservative than say, the average American girl?
4 Yes, but to be honest I also am attracted to the community that continues to shelter them. I like the family structure and security I saw in SLC, and right now I'm at a good age, my business fairly mobile, house prices are much lower than in my current area, SLC looks very attractive.
rademenes 10y ago
It's hard to say. Yes, in the sense that HE was essentially her first at the age of 21. No, in the sense that she doesn't know, nor she cares to fulfill the traditional female roles as we would call them -- like cooking and cleaning while he provides. He is a very basic BB kind of guy. Truth be told, I had an opportunity to really fuck with that situation and hook up with her in spite of being less fit or making less money. Why? I have more game and attitude than he does. She is more tingly around me than he. So I disassociated myself from that situation for the sake of my buddy.
The other two, I am not 100% sure what is going on but I know that HE got obese and she is still with him. Will that last? I don't know (she is a very respectable 8 if not 9; he right now is barely a 5, if that and not making a whole lot of money). My other acquaintance/friend left his mormon girlfriend after she got pregnant. I know she has some other dude taking care of the child while being pregnant once again.
Honestly, I think it really boils down to what someone here said already, that as long as SHE is exposed to a CC culture she will revert to that imperative and it's up to you to be the best choice out of the lot.
So let's re-cap. Say, you score a traditional mormon girl. She will stick by you because that is expected even though you don't give her the tingles. You are OK in finances, you are OK in fitness, you are OK as a leader. You are average.
Do you want to be average?
Do you want the easy way out?
What do you want in a wife/partner?
redpillromp 10y ago
Right now I do OK in a large market (LA) with mostly day game. I'm pulling 6 - 8's in the right age group for marriage, but TBH I'm not interested in anything more with those girls. Maybe it's the culture in LA, but it seems like even the "good" girls have shitty friends who encourage risky, CC behavior.
I'm honestly looking to settle down with one woman, but knowing AWALT, the fact that Mormon culture discourages women from that kind of behavior makes them attractive to me. Most of the guys who have said they married women from traditional cultures also say KEEP her in that culture.
GillWillPill 10y ago
This all reeks of desperation.
You are willing to make all these changes knowing the fundamental concept of AWALT?
Don't get me wrong, their concepts of family and community is great but the way they go about it is wrong.
Also, this post and your responses seem more of a method to justify a choice you have already made and not an inquiry.
redpillromp 10y ago
I admit I'm leaning heavily to the "do it" side. But it's because of AWALT that I think this plan has merit. The social control the community exerts keeps the worst female behaviors in check. As long as I do my part as a good 'mormon" husband, she will do hers. That's more than a typical American woman offers.
GillWillPill 10y ago
I understand your thought process but religion or not; AWALT.
What about your children? You might go through the motions of being a Mormon but they will be raised as one. Are you okay with that?
The frustration and sense of hopelessness with women is understandable but do not let it make you desperate.
However, good on you for doing a little research. You need to do much more though.
redpillromp 10y ago
Yeah, honestly part of what I like about SLC was the community because it seemed like a wholesome place for children.
Here's my sitch: My SMV is high (white, 6' work out, good job, early 30's) and I have several FWB/plate situations. I could keep doing that. Don't get me wrong, it's a great life. But I do want to get married and have kids, and I want to do it before I get too much older.
I regularly meet new women who are good on paper and interested: under 25, low partner count, 7's and above - but realistically I don't think they would be great mothers, and they all seem to have friends/outside forces in their lives that are deal breakers. Part of that is definitely where I live, it encourages women to have unrealistic expectations about their careers and value, so finding a women from outside of this area and keeping her in her home environment sounds like a good idea.
MightyTaint 10y ago
Yes
Very involved
See 2. You having caffeine will be an issue with a mormon girl, let alone liquor. If you drink and she finds out, that would be grounds for divorce.
redpillromp 10y ago
I'm seeing this scenario play out where I "let" her convert me - women love projects. If I slip up occasionally, she'll need to work harder to convert me back. I travel a fair amount for business now, I could probably keep the non mormon approved stuff out of town.
MightyTaint 10y ago
You have zero idea what you're getting yourself into. If what you said were true, mormon women would regularly date and marry outside their faith. They do not. The save themselves for return missionaries. If she is willing to date you, she also will not hold to all the other facets you're seeking.
Go read /r/exmormon .
GillWillPill 10y ago
It is clear he is looking for the "green light" from this sub to continue what he is doing.
While I wish him luck in his endeavors, he is essentially hunting for unicorns and putting mormon women on a pedestal.
redpillromp 10y ago
I started reading over there yesterday. Great sub, thanks!
[deleted] 10y ago
I grew up as a mormon. Mormon girls are great. A few of them drink alcohol and sleep around (not bad though, the worst offenders probably drank a couple times a month/year and hooked up occasionally) but those types of girls usually don't stay in the church much longer after they turn 18 anyways.
I don't think it's cool to have the idea that you can just swoop in and steal away a mormon girl without converting to the religion, but that's just me. Those girls live a certain lifestyle in the face of enormous pressure from our cesspool of a society and they deserve someone with the same beliefs as them.
It's not an easy life though. No drinking, no smoking, no pot and the church inserts itself into your life in the form of giving you weekly duties to perform.
redpillromp 10y ago
I didn't say I wouldn't convert, I just don't actually believe in God. If I'm baptized and it makes my future wife happy, I don't see how it matters.
Oh, I get it - White knighting. Carry on, then.
[deleted] 10y ago
You're an idiot. Good luck.
redpillromp 10y ago
Cool, I'll remember you while I'm swooping in and stealing your women.
[deleted] 10y ago
They're not my women.
I'm just laughing at your arrogance in thinking that they would even want anything to do with you oh supreme alpha-sir. It's a hardcore religion and I'm not even going to bother to continue to explain why you're retarded. You talk like a fag and your shit's all retarded.
redpillromp 10y ago
Sorry, my bad - I meant your sister.
[deleted] 10y ago
would you like to be seen in public with a traditional mormon girl on your arm?
redpillromp 10y ago
The married ones, absolutely. From what I gather, they do missionary type work when they're young instead of riding the CC. Then when they get married they devote themselves to their husbands and family. The older married women I saw looked more like Anne Romney than Clan Duggard.
[deleted] 10y ago
this is a tough situation. how do you know the girl is ALWAYS going to be like that, because part of the attraction is because of her modesty right? in a different environment that could all change. all it could take is a sip of her first coffee, and next thing you know, she's jumping between different men, realising what she missed out on. unless YOU want to convert.. then thats another story
redpillromp 10y ago
Yeah, this is a great point. I'm considering living in SLC, because I definitely agree that you take any woman out of her environment she'll start adapting to the hypergamous western influences around her. I will definitely convert on paper, because as an atheist it really doesn't matter to me which invisible man in the sky you believe in.
[deleted] 10y ago
Once again, here you go. This is wrong on so many levels.
[deleted] 10y ago
also their sex lives sound pretty awful.. sounds kinda boring http://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/1f90kb/what_is_the_typical_mormon_marriage_sex_life_like/
redpillromp 10y ago
That sub is a treasure trove, thanks. It looks like a pretty mixed bag, TBH. Top comment is a one-way ticket to starfishville, but further down it gets better. I'm not going to just go and marry any mormon girl, but in terms of hunting grounds for wife material, SLC looks pretty promising.
marlybarrow 10y ago
Mormons, both men and women, live a few years in modern society when they are in their late teens/early twenties. After that period they decide if they want to return back to mormon society and start a family or would like to stay as a normal person working shit jobs dealing with the vices and degeneracy the rest of us have to put up with.
It's called Rumspringa.
What I'm trying to say is that every mormon you see has experienced this, even the chaste, fit, devout women you are determined to worship know about hook up culture, alcohol, international travel, video gaming, mass media etc.
I would like to add my personal view on this, its that if you think the women around you aren't up to standard, then you aren't either. And that is what irks me about men going overseas and marrying foreign women; they aren't that much better than the local women they disparage yet they go overseas and spread the same Western culture that formed these substandard women.
redpillromp 10y ago
OK, so aside from Mormon ≠ Amish, Salt Lake City ≠ overseas and Mormon ≠ foreign - it honestly sounds like you are projecting here. Why would YOU be irked that men choose not to deal with an American woman's bullshit, and seek partners from cultures not seeped in toxicity? How does how I choose to conduct my sexual relationships effect you in any way?
I'm not actually disparaging women, I love women and enjoy spending time in them. I see women as they really are, and I hate the culture that they're raised in that teaches them to embrace their feral hypergamy and AWALT natures. I have no desire to share my home, wealth and future with such a creature - and neither would any other man in his right mind.
Soupycampbell 10y ago
Dude... That is Amish, and not at ALL the same http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumspringa
LittleHelperRobot 10y ago
Non-mobile: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumspringa
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autowikibot 10y ago
	
	
	
Rumspringa:
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anothercarguy 10y ago
What about setting up the relationship you want from the beginning, clear boundaries of what is ok, live the alpha life? It seems to me you are going for the easy way out with this one based on a prejudice.
redpillromp 10y ago
I have that relationship now with several women, none of whom I want to procreate with. Along with finding mormon women attractive, I also like the community that reinforces redpill ideals. Even if my relationship is perfectly redpill, it will not be the 'norm' in my present area, and will always be subject to negative external forces.
a word