A lot of the questions in the seduction community boil down to "I'm interested in this specific girl, how should I approach the situation?" Another popular one is "how do I know she'll be down if I make a move?"
Usually, in response to such questions, all of the dregs of TRP come out of the woodwork and unhelpfully regurgitate tired phrases like "you have oneitis, bro" and "read the sidebar, bro".
While it's possible that the OP needs to revisit the sidebar, and perhaps he does actually have oneitis, it frustrates the hell out of me when that is the response to legitimate questions.
But I digress.
Here's the answer I wish someone had told me back in the day: she's just not that into you, bro.
-Returns your texts but too busy to see you? Get over her.
-Hangs out with you in a one on one setting, but shies away when you touch her? Move on.
-Any ambiguity whatsoever, in the grey zone and not sure where things stand? She's just not that into you, bro.
Somewhat tangentially, there was recently a thread in askTRP about how to bring a girl to orgasm. In the thread, /u/Whisper offered an enlightening perspective -- the game is psychological. There is no amount of physical technique in bed that will fully substitute what I call enthusiastic consent.^1
It's possible you've never experienced enthusiastic consent. I didn't until recently. She should be so excited to see you, to spend time with you and to suck your dick that there should be no question in your mind that she's into it.
That is what Whisper was trying to get across, and will be the key to your sexual success. There are enough women out there that you shouldn't be settling for anything less than enthusiastic consent.
And if you aren't getting such a response from any women, well, hit the gym fatso. Watch some stand-up comedy. Get a hobby. It's time for some self-improvement.
So next time you're on a date with some chick you picked up in the vegetable aisle, or you're at a bar grinding against some slut who's showing more skin than a Chicago pickup game, and you're not sure if you should escalate, don't ask her like a sperg if you should kiss her. And don't ask yourself if you should kiss her. That's the wrong question.
What you should be asking is why you would even want to be with a girl who doesn't want to be with you? She doesn't even like you, dude.
^1 Apparently this is a real thing, I'd never heard the phrase till googling it just now and it certainly was not my intention to allude to whatever they're talking about.

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AllahHatesFags 8y ago
I'm just imagining some blue-pill guy who somehow got a girl to come over to his place dropping this line:
"Do you consent to have sex with me?"
And just like that, her pussy is dry.
Dmva100 8y ago
Easy.
Use an alias, snapchat only, and go to her place.
False accusation will get nowhere.
strikethrough123 8y ago
Only surefire way to know if a girl is into you is to escalate. If she's into you she'll respond positively, if she isn't she'll respond negatively. A lot of dudes look for that "sign" or the "perfect moment" before they escalate so they don't get rejected, I say fuck that. Escalate and find out now rather than wait and find out later. Stop wasting your time.
gorilla_bro 8y ago
Escalate. Girls want a man in control. Men control situations and escalation falls in that category. If she says no, okay. next. Have options (abundance mentaility).
FieldLine 8y ago
The moment you escalate, whether physically or by suggesting a meetup in a potentially sexual context, is when it becomes clear where you stand, but a lot of guys can't get over their egos and still wonder whether they should keep pursuing her.
TheEndlessRoadAhead 8y ago
She might even initially be attracted to you, but unless you find the balls to escalate she's gonna figure you for what you are, a pussy ass bitch.
In which case she definitely won't be into you.
Been there, done that.
redlurker9 8y ago
Basically this. It's futile to look for signs and shit, just fucking touch her and watch her reaction.
Melman195 8y ago
It's better to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission
mrpCamper 8y ago
I wouldn't say beg but this attitude goes a long way in life. Not just in this situation.
FREEDNA 8y ago
Exactly.. doesn't matter what you say or do... you will know right away.
"want a free breast exam?"
INTERESTED: "LOL where did you go to school to become a doctor?"
NOT INTERESTED: "I'm ok thanks..."
devilkingx2 8y ago
what does it mean if she agrees? lol
FREEDNA 8y ago
then tell her to turn her head and cough
coco5440 8y ago
Good post! I like the term "enthusiastic consent" -- didn't call it that but I've always known when a girl was really into me -- you can see it in her eyes. It was really cool the first time it happened when I was 18 -- and its still a rush at over 50. Sadly many women seem to loose the ability to be enthusiastic as they age.
If she's enthusiastically into you all that's required is very gentile escalation -- let her think she's taking the lead.
Arnoux 8y ago
As they experience more cocks
rigbed 8y ago
Or the same cock over and over again
Entropy-7 8y ago
TL;DR:
Seduction is like sales, but always be escalating
Generally follow a 3-Date-Rule, but allow for exceptions in exceptional cases
Re-think your game if this is not working
You will get shot down on approaches often, and even if not, a lot of first dates (meets) should let you figure out if you have a shot before wasting time and energy
But learn to identify and overcome LMR and ASD with proper game so you don't pooch the opportunity (if you are fucking the dog rather than pussy, then improve and carry on)
In the sales game the saying is "ABC": always be closing. It's similar with women but you have the #-close and the f-close and some places in between. "Always Be Escalating" is more directly apropos but "ABE" doesn't sound as snappy.
The "3-Date Rule" comes into play. Setting aside a very tiny minority, you will rarely get down to sex within, say 18 hours of making contact, and you probably won't bang on a first meet (date, after an #-close or contact online).
OTOH, if you can't orchestrate getting laid, by the third date then there is one of three problems: either logistics is working against you (distance, conflicts in schedules, or something similar), she is blowing you off and not allowing you to even get her isolated enough (generally her place or your place but who knows) so you can follow through, or you get her into the appropriate setting and escalate but she puts the kibosh on finishing the deed.
Whichever of those three, you seriously have to rethink whether she is worth a further investment of time and energy.
Plus, you have to look at your own game. In the third scenario it might be that you didn't get her warmed up enough and tried to escalate too fast, or it could be that it is simply her LMR or ASD kicking in and you failed to overcome.
(I had this happen only a few times: first was when I was a teenager and my game was shit so nothing happened; second was when I was in the army and they were clamping down on "sexual assault" and we had all these silly-yet-serious lectures so I just said "ok" and grabbed my clothes and was out the door for good; third was young [26 to my 48], tall [5'9"], slim [BMI 19) and gorgeous, and it took me another few months to go from that heavy petting to coitus.)
But overall, it's volleyball fucking: bump, set, spike and if you fail to score, then move on.
YMMV and there will be exceptions.
Black Dragon emphasizes online game with a 2nd date bang. I'm not sure about time (either calendar -wise or actually online) that he takes to get a girl to that first date, but he keeps meticulous records of things like hit and miss percentages.
I'm not quite so. . .particular (plus I don't run a pick-up web site) but I do keep some records (which I assembled when my n-count was high enough I started forgetting their names), and roughly speaking: 1-in-10 were first contact bangs (I almost exclusively work online so that would be chatting for the first time with a same night meeting and having sex). About a quarter were first meet (date) lays, another quarter were 2nd date, and a 3rd quarter were on the third date. The remainder basically split evenly as to whether the situation was ambiguous (like knowing the person on a friendly or professionial basis but then banging within 3 dates) or simply tossing the 3-Date-Rule out the window.
I don't have a breakdown number of approaches, or how many failed first meetings, but I can count on one hand the number of times it took a second or third date to call things off (or in a few cases to get friendzoned and go into a controlled orbit for awhile).
biggerbetterjobs 8y ago
If a chick really is into you and you're hanging out together, she'll make sure you have an opportunity to make your moves. Whether it's her inviting you over to "netflix and chill", she might lean on your shoulder in a movie theater, play fight with you, be really excited to see you and hug you enthusiastically (though this can also be friendly, but most times girls are like this it means they've at least crushed on you a little bit) or generally just stand close to you and invade your personal space in a social setting.
If you're asking "how to make a move?" you're either generally oblivious of her green light social cues or she's not that into you so you're not getting those green light signals..
[deleted] 8y ago
I have experienced the polar extremes of the consent spectrum. The side where you end up fucking her but there was tons of LMR or there is consistently a good amount of LMR everytime you hit that.... is not a side you want to be on, and is pretty high on the spectrum of the "she's just not that into you". Also, this is when you're just asking for a false rape accusation, in the form of a retroactive consent reneging.
On the other hand, I have experienced all the sparks with one lady, making out with her at a club and having her literally drag me into the bathroom at the club. While the bathroom was disgusting and the sex wasn't that good, the tangible need she had for me at that moment and feeling that "enthusiastic consent" made up for it.
That being said, just because you are not seeing much LMR and she is gagging enthusiastically on your cock does not mean you shouldn't take necessary precautions to ensure you don't get falsely accused. Bitches b cray. Voice recorders if your state permits, post-coital "had a great night" texts...as has been said time and time again, none of the above are iron-clad in court but cover your ass as best you can, TRP 101..
Metalgear222 8y ago
My favorite takeaway from Models by Mark Manson was this.. "spend time with the girls that say 'fuck ya!' to being with you" This saves you SO much trouble in the long run with girls.
[deleted] 8y ago
Just make a move. Try to kiss her. If it doesn't work out at least you know where you stand and can move on. You should never try to negotiate such a move, instant mood killer.
oldslut 8y ago
yes, and no. the OP is a bit all over the place, but my take... if you get to the point where you have a woman isolated, (in a club, in a bar, at a party, outside from any of the above...) she is definitely into you, and wants to find out more/test the waters. how you go from there will decide if she sleeps with you or not. if you can't get her into a one on one (isolation) she's probably not into you. obviously, if you can't get her to return your text, or even meet you out some where, she's not into you... but if you can/do isolate her, and don't bring things to a notch close, you done fucked up.
max_peenor 8y ago
Being invited to an interview doesn't mean you get the job.