Sex counts.. if she's terrible at it.. I'm not staying
Cooking counts.. I can cook.. so should every adult.. and cooking is NOT heating up some take out Cleaning does count.. I keep a clean house.. if she's not wiping up after herself.. I'll fuck her at her pig pen hole and throw the condom on the wall on my way out from stepping over her full kitty litter box.

Pretty nicely done OP, slightly angry sounding but nice. I'd like to add on.

Experience is so much of this. You must date around, lots of chicks out there. You don't have to be taking the ltr plunge to learn good vetting. By good vetting I mean the following.

• know your absolute walking points. Things you can't compromise on.
• know your red flags. These are things you often can compromise with if there's only one or two.
• internalize your goals. This is what you use to recognize your green flags. If you want a family you need young and low n count/virgin. If you want plates you need sexual satisfaction and low drama. A one night stand only needs to be available and physically passable for you. Different goals have different girls.

Overall the best thing you can do is get experience and know your core goals. They'll enable you to say yes and no very happily and very quickly without becoming butthurt. They're a measurement stick for what will work with or against you.

As a word of encouragement, if you can do this you'll find most women who offer more and more as time goes on, up until they break. I'm fine with this. Rarely is a girl of mine the same or worse at the end of our interactions, it's almost always that they're much better. (It's usually my own boredom, or some sort of logistics that causes things to end.)

So sex doesn't count, taking care of your daily habitation needs doesn't count, cooking you meals to ease your burden and provide variety doesn't count, providing an alternate (and not necessarily contradictory) viewpoint doesn't count. Dude just go be a monk already.

Women are not the enemy. Their gender is complimentary to the male gender. There are some messed up self entitled women, no doubt. There's also some angry raging at the world men (op?)

If you think you are a well rounded man and can't see positive effects of a woman's place in your life (plate, LTR, or otherwise) I'd suggest a whole lot of introspection.

Your post might better suit homosexuals. In modern hetrosexual relationships, sex is not a standard it's a female value add. I would even argue that sex and companionship are the 2 most important things she can bring to the table. Outside of this I'm not even remotely interested in a relationship.

This is a big part of why I hate the traditional date. Like I've got to prove I'm 'worthy' of being the 39th guy to shag you? Bitch, what do you bring to the table? Same goes with girls who want more commitment than I'm willing to give. Patrice O'Neal had a lot of good shit, but arguably his best bits were about how men have to have all this value to earn sex, but women have evolved almost zero skill in earning commitment/love. It's just expected, and yet it's an entitlement no one questions.

I appreciate the premise to try and look at relationships objectively, but ruling out cooking, cleaning and companionship is a little much. No man should not know how to cook, clean or entertain themselves- but the point of a relationship is not to fill a hole that you're incapable of filling but to support you're efforts across the board.

If you raise your standards to basically a supermodel tradcon with perfect personality and disposition, you're basically hunting for unicorns.

Also there is no reason for anyone to be in a LTR ever, so there's that.

If you want true everlasting love get a puppy.

What a woman brings to the table depends on what the man wants for dinner. In my case, my first LTR was more of a party girl and was a general pain in the ass by the end of the relationship however I was too stupid to let it go. I broke up, spent a year and a half figuring out what I wanted out of life and who I wanted to be and gave it another shot.

My current situation makes plating difficult but I have some ways to make things work and have certain things in the works. But if the plates don't work out, they don't work out, no skin off my back.

However I am also in an LTR and what she brings to the table is that she has a more similar personality to mine and brings me peace of mind. I don't like to go out as much and am more of a homebody and so is she, however she will be moving to her own place soon for school and once her career starts, I will definitely be keeping an eye on her more as she will have more financial freedom so I will see how much she changes as that was a critical point in my prior relationship that caused it to end.

In the end, what she brings to the table is what is most important to you and what you value. That is a question only you can answer, BUT, you must remain vigilant in your LTR/plating because AWALT. Don't let your guard down and walk away when you must.

I would say that sex and compaionship should be a given... but cooking and cleaning are rare / exceptional traits that most modern women are very medicore at, or don't do at all.

Shouldn't be, but that's the reality in the metro area where I live. Reality = Red Pill.

It better be fucking dinner!

This question is something I have been wrapping my head around for some time. -Child rearing abilities is one. You just have to want to have kids. Me personally, I'm indifferent at 28. -Emotional connection. I say this because without indulging in feelings like love, campassion, etc. you may end up not enjoying your life to the fullest. From my own personal experience some of my best memories are with good friends and ex's. Sure you could ride solo and plate spin plates, but it gets old. You just have to know what you want and protect yourself...

what if she brings sex and money to the table, but lacks a lot of what makes an ltr last?

Interesting post, at least as food for thought. Makes you wonder what exactly counts.

Anyways, a good principle in rational discourse is to make your point falsifiable. That is, you should also mention what would make a woman a good partner? Otherwise it's just an anti LTR-rant.

As an almost 40 yo bachelor I tend to agree that cooking and cleaning are not really great value. But on the other hand most of what remains is covered by your male friends - advice, support, conversation, challenge etc.

What really remains? I'm not sure. Intimacy? Romance? How long do they survive in a LTR?

Good post, but two points. (1) If you are talking hard value, what is that? assets? Education? Social connections? I would be irritated with someone who made more, was better connected, and better educated than me. (2) I like that you describe so many things as baseline, supportive, rational, fomestic... but frankly these things are not baseline. Give me somebody who is a good human being, with habits that elevate them beyond compulsive hypergamy, deception, aggression, and blind self interest, and id call that a keeper.

I'm confused: what else does a woman bring to the table besides cooking, cleaning, companionship, and sex?

Sex does NOT count

Cooking does NOT count

Cleaning does NOT count

Companionship does NOT count

Well if that's the case then my mother was fucking useless (besides working part-time), but my parents were very happy and we had a great family. You're full of shit, go take your anger somewhere else.

I don't agree with this. Girls who offer quality consistent sex, cook for you, clean for you, and are enjoyable feminine company are rare enough. That's bringing something to the table.

It's much worse than this. Many women today believe that bringing beauty to the table is all that matters - that's it.

Rare video on this topic that I like a lot:

FINDING A WOMAN THAT WILL IMPROVE YOU

if all these things don't count than what does OP ?

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Cooking, cleaning and sex DO count for the vast majority of men though. You are wrong.

If a woman gives you sex whenever, is a good cook and cooks all the meals, and keeps your household clean and in order all the time, the only other thing I could think of is don't be a bitch all the time.

I'm not in an LTR right now but if I met one who did all of this I would at least be tempted.