There have been some excellent posts in TheRedPill over the past few months getting back to "game". Game can be thought of as influence over others, and the ability to manipulate an interaction to achieve your desired result. Game is applicable not just with sexual interactions, but in all areas of life (such as sales, business, etc.).
I'm not going to sugarcoat it, and talk about "game" being just "making sure both parties win and enjoy the interaction!" No, game is manipulation and you should feel no shame. You are not physically forcing any girl to do anything; she's always making her own choice, so set your morals aside. In a pickup artist mentality, put forth your best tactics, and if she sleeps with you, wonderful, you've achieved your desired result. If not, either she was never going to be interested, or you didn't have the necessary skills. It's your job to discern whether there's a lesson to be learned or not.
The post currently at the top of /r/theredpill about Verbal Judo is an excellent piece on game. The purpose of this post, however, is to showcase a contrast to the value of game and provide some caveates.
If we return to the basic definition of game as manipulating an interaction to achieve your desired result, then we must ask ourselves: how much effort are we willing to put in, to learn game? Books on psychology & persuasion, reading redpill theory, etc., are all useful methods for you to learn game (and don't forget to actually go out there and apply it for all you weak timid readers).
Yet a core tenet of the red pill has always been to improve yourself, and understand that you are the catch. Well actually, that's bullshit. You can be the catch if you put the hard work in.
Such hard work at improvement does indeed have game as a component of it. But it also contains more important foundational work. This is lifting (and cardio if you want) for your body, a proper diet, meditation, wealth, experiences, knowledge, and real power.
Game can be useful, but you must keep in mind that you are optimizing your game for your current level of status in the world. If instead of spending your time on game, you improve yourself by traveling, or growing a small business, or lifting religiously, then you'll notice something odd.
What you will notice is that your past attempts at game were a waste of time. Because when you enter a social situation now, your "burden of game" goes down significantly. You'll realize that it becomes pretty easy to "manipulate an interaction to achieve your desired result". You are essentially coming in at an advantage. You're cheating at the game.
In the past, that "8" might have been right in your league, and you optimized your interaction given that fact. But if you work extraordinarily hard at improving yourself, that 8 is now below your league. Your sample size for which to improve your game goes way up, when girls want to talk to you. You find that the level of effort you must put in to achieve your desired result goes significantly down.
The issue with most people is that game can be learned by anyone with a computer and a local watering hole. Yet to become a truly high-value (e.g. having a large amount of international experience) takes real effort. If you're only 80% improved (stupid metric I know, but bear with me), you might notice no change when you enter a room. But once you break through and hit 85% improved, a plethora of doors open up. It takes a while to reach the threshold in which extreme self-improvement yields enough concrete results to make significant changes in your life, but when it does the effect is exponential.
If you work your ass off lifting and learning about fitness instead of learning about game, when you enter a room, you're already noticed. If you work your ass off to grow a business, forgetting about being a "beta provider", you have unique experiences to share with people. And even if you don't want to discuss your small business with girls (I recommend just focusing on being the guy with some game and a fuckton of muscles; almost never showcase wealth to girls), that experience that you have is going to grow your confidence and power.
This doesn't just apply to women, but also to your coworkers. The halo effect is very real and can actually yield concrete financial gains in your life. Such financial gains in turn can result in more experiences, which becomes a positive feedback loop.
Game is an essential part of one's toolbox. There is no denying that. And it's a tool which can be used in any interaction (not just sexual). But to come in with a better foundation of status (such as lifting; or unique experiences; or a lot of international travel; or a lifestyle afforded to you by wealth; or the confidence and power gained but mastering something), your burden of game decreases significantly.
You decide what to spend your time on, but always bear in mind that time is the only asset which always depreciates, so make the most of it.
-Deep Thrill (anagram of the letters in "The Red Pill")
Follow me on twitter [@deeperthrill](http://www.twitter.com/deeperthrill)

17th_Username_Tried 10y ago
Pretty straight forward and very well written. Some people spend a lot of time focused on one thing and forget the rest. They get tunnel vision. Focusing only on game will get you an amazing conversationalist with nothing interesting whatsoever. Like the everyday airhead women who populate colleges now.
On the other hand, focusing solely on you career, lifting or studying gets you an incredible man with the social skills of a rock. Like everything in life, balance is needed. You shouldnt make game the center of your life or you will end up making women the center of your life. Not exactly the best decision in the world.
na66afc 10y ago
But you can improve all areas. There are guys who's games is zero, but other aspects are brilliant. I think it's finding the right balance. There's no point in becoming just super good at game and forgetting the rest of life. Alot of the PUA's do talk about not making the women your aim but to become the best you can be. The thing on hitting that barrier is right however.
deepthrill Senior Endorsed 10y ago
I agree you can improve all areas. After being a part of trp for maybe 2 years or so, I found myself banging my head against a wall trying to optimize my interactions.
And I realized one day that I truly didn't get it. I was still in that faux pickup artist mentality.
Recently I've rarely posted here, only read the top posts of the month, and am working extraordinarily hard at growing real power. Real power is very simply wealth and fitness in our modern age of weak lazy entitled people.
I'm talking extreme levels of both fitness and finance as a goal we should all strive towards above all else. Above relationships, above friendships (cue idiots coming in and talking about the value of a support network), and above any sort of safety net.
I then realized that the number of hours I had previously spent trying to optimize game were a good foundation for social interactions, but cumulatively pretty much a waste of precious time. That time would have been much better spent reading non-fiction books and challenging my mind on financial issues.
So this post is just my experience. And I suspect (although I don't speak for anyone else) many of the endorsed and vanguards here who have improved their lives to such a degree would pity those who have spent hours learning to game women; it's actually much more efficient to learn game for business power, which yields sexual success in very concrete yet indirect ways.
Anyway, just my experience.
Balance is good. But always bear in mind that balance is not necessarily 50/50. All factors should be improved, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be weighted to 80/20 for example.
hbPUA 10y ago
I went a similar path of focus on game, lifting and sports for the first years of unplugging. I'm glad I did but had to little focus on freedom and money.
Now it has shifted to having more freedom in my life, working less and wealth building to sustain it.
The understanding I learned of game was, being Chad is fun for awhile. Until you realize Chad has bills to pay and not happy at crappy jobs. Unless he likes crashing on couches.
Expectations1 10y ago
I believe that game is essentially a shortcut to getting the girl when you dont't have other pursuits. Ive met plenty of guys who dont have any real pursuits, being good with women but ive also met people who have never learned a day of game, pass all the shit tests a women could throw from a place of "i have a passion for X , I WANT you, but i dont NEED you", which frame you'd rather come from is your choice.
Auvergnat 10y ago
This is the most perfect illustration of a strawman fallacy. You redefine your enemy in a bad light and then proceed to punch the evil redefinition.
I define Game as Social Mastery, which includes things such as Confidence, Frame and Awareness of the Subtext.
Now go try punch this definition
scissor_me_timbers00 10y ago
Lol dude that's not a strawman fallacy, not even close. Your definition of Game is a great definition. But he basically said the same thing. And Game usually does require some manipulation, tho you want to not manipulate so heavily that you're just bullshitting.
But his definition, while not as complete as yours, is not a strawman fallacy.
deepthrill Senior Endorsed 10y ago
No punching necessary. Agree with that definition. And then using the tools of "confidence, frame, and social awareness", to achieve my desired result from the interaction.
Not sure I'm painting game as a strawman to knock down. I have no issue with learning game. Even calling it manipulation doesn't mean I dislike it and want to knock it down. I said in the post many times I believe it's useful in many contexts. No enemy, just selfish desire to achieve what I want. Game is a good tool to use. Just becomes less necessary as the other aspects of your life increase.
JamesSkepp Endorsed Contributor 10y ago
On top of half of TRP thinking gaming (PUA style) is "fake" b/c they have done a total of ZERO cold approaches but somehow think that lifting and status will fix everything because the same half TRP says it will.
Then comes a clown with a top hat and googles will push him out of a set in half a second using some absurd thing like "is that your brother?".
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OmegaMan2 10y ago
You're wrong! Game is NOT manipulation!
It is more like learning how to dance the Tango. If you don't know the steps or don't know how to move with the music then you will be left on the sidelines.
JamesSkepp Endorsed Contributor 10y ago
A big MAYBE.
At best game is "pretending to be alpha" while you learn how to be one.
It's not the "tactics". It's how you execute them. It's internal. There is no "specific combination of words or physical moves" that makes her more attracted to you. It's the delivery of the words or the moves. Delivery is internal, it's your state, your frame, your beliefs etc.
You seem to have an image of game like it's a "chore to do when you're out". It's like with lifting, you either have "well shit iy's monday 6pm i'm supposed to be lifting" or "i feel so good when i lift" mentality.
Traveling experiences, money helps, but it's just a status based game. You basically invite "i'll fuck you now but ill make you my bf later" girls. Not to mention that it's a turn off for a girl if you flaunt or even imply status.
Never advertize your status while flirting. She's supposed to fuck you for you, not b/c you went places.
You'll notice that some poor (financialy) schmuck (skinny fat normal dude) with tight game and tight frame (from tight game) will just get the girl you wanted, because while you were "improving yourself while traveling making money or even lifting" he religiously learned game.
As you said, it's a matter of time spent learning things.
FieldLine 10y ago
You're missing the point.
You can improve your game so you'll surpass the minimum threshold for what's required to achieve the desired outcome; or you can lower the bar by improving yourself in other areas, so your game won't necessarily have to be as tight.
Maybe I'm missing something, I'm having trouble deciphering what you are trying to say as it relates to the OP.
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_MONK_ey 10y ago
Don't be an idiot. Just because he doesn't agree with you doesn't mean he doesn't "comprehend Game". By saying that, you are trying to say that only your point of view is the truth? Why then, please enlighten us with your great wisdom.
I wouldn't give a shit if you were just posting that you disagree with him and showing him the error in his ways. But this kind of response is just some toxic shit. Maybe you should take some time reflecting on what kind of image you're trying to pass on as a TRP endorsed.
It is very known that body language is what matters most in the subject of dating. What he contributed is valid. If you don't have a good core, it will show. If you said every right word, still wouldn't matter if you're not sure about yourself. It shows on your body language, on your tone.
This response seems just like something a hardcore SJW would be doing during a discussion. Ignore your argument, and use shaming tactics. Pathetic.
NeoreactionSafe 10y ago
No, I've checked him out thoroughly.
The guys a total faggot.
No debate about it.
He should have been banned long ago.
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NeoreactionSafe 10y ago
I see him as a "sideshow" in that he contributes to the Manosphere positively, but he's in a world outside the world we actually live in.
The Red Pill doesn't actually want guys who are not masculine (or wanting to be) and straight.
There is the site AltTRP where anyone outside the straight and masculine can go to discuss sexual strategy.
Milo represents an odd truth with homosexuality which is they are actually attracted to masculinity.
But then you have this problem of receptive anal sex essentially turning men into women.
...so it's a problem.
This is why AltTRP is there to resolve this situation and simply partition that whole mess elsewhere.
We are free to not have to discuss homosexual issues.
JamesSkepp Endorsed Contributor 10y ago
Endorsed Contributor of TRP.
This is a total lie. Never said anything remotely resembling this.
EDIT: provide a quote that proves I said anything remotely resembling this.
NeoreactionSafe 10y ago
This guy is a total faggot.
Remember that folks... he was taking the faggot side recently.
JamesSkepp Endorsed Contributor 10y ago
Provide proof. Quote me exactly where I did that.
NeoreactionSafe 10y ago
You argued in favor of receptive "Butt Sex".
Not only that but you did your "programmed":
Endorsed Contributer
...comment.
That's a double whammy of being totally outside Red Pill concepts and not respecting the "endorsed contributor" tag.
Frankly you ought to have been banned on day one (if I had my say on it) because you have demonstrated a complete failure to grasp core Red Pill concepts.
To this day you lack knowledge of what Game means in the abstract conceptual level and have repeatedly proven this shortcoming over and over.
Do us all a favor and just:
Get Lost Faggot
JamesSkepp Endorsed Contributor 10y ago
Provide a direct quote that I said.
NeoreactionSafe 10y ago
Let's do this...
If you never make comments that equate the Red Pill with "gender queer acceptance" anymore I'll stop calling you a faggot.
We aren't AltTRP and I've been the "enforcer" on that policy for something like three years or so. (it has been a long time)
You got caught making a mistake and simultaneously attacking an endorsed contributor whose job is to weed out bad thinking, so you massively screwed up again.
If this were the real mafia you would have been whacked long ago.
But the Red Pill is becoming so mainstream and "softer" so we are apparently in a mode where rather than banning we are making more effort to help guys along and straighten them out.
So I'll back off if you just recognize you can't offer AltTRP or even "gender queer / gender fluid" ideology on the Red Pill.
The Red Pill is about masculine polarity.
Masculine polarity means we have a bias.
The Blue Pill offers a vision of a world without sexuality that is transgender and bisexual and fluid and dozens of special snowflake other freakishness.
Just stop the queer acceptance "virtue signaling" and things will be fine.
I'll assume you have learned and you need say nothing.
JamesSkepp Endorsed Contributor 10y ago
Provide quotes of me saying this, othewise it slander.