A few weeks ago I posted an article about how most adult men (post-college age) do not have close male friends, and was looking to brainstorm ideas regarding what to do about it, and the response was a bit staggering- it clearly resonated with people on this board. And in true RED PILL fashion, the majority response seemed kind of depressing: in short, men don't typically forge close friendships post-college age.
Most men post-college are either focused on a Long Term Relationship, from which they usually exclude new social opportunities (to their detriment), or are lone-wolf types focused on self-development. Regardless, either types usually only socializes with established friends rather than forging new friendships.
Yes, it's depressing, but what is the over-arching message here on THE RED PILL? When we sort out the truth about the way things really work, do we get butthurt about it?
No, we adjust. We shift paradigms. We work to become successful with the way the world really is.
(Aside: The other over-arching message on the RED PILL is that a man must eliminate need; women may need, men may not. Get over the fact that you very likely aren't going to make new friends the way you had friends in high school/college. Crush your need and reap success with what is available).
If we look to one word to define those old friendships, I would use AUTHENTICITY. The easiness of being yourself, the non-judgment of your friends, the way you could rip on each other but in a way that radiated ultimate acceptance, the multitude of nights you spent watching WWF or playing n64 that felt magical- I can look back on so many of those nights where nothing really happened feeling as though they are some of my happiest memories...
And then you used that same strategy in your relationships with women... and here you are.
And then those magical relationships changed (or, if you're lucky, you grew together)... suddenly, you weren't so close. Or maybe your friend's life didn't turn out the way they wanted and they're jealous or angry... or maybe your efforts to improve hurts their fragile ego.
Any number of things could have happened, but suddenly, you're the lone wolf looking to make friends... and you have no idea how.
The point is... those types of authentic friendships aren't typically made as adults... So, our reactionary paradigm shift here is to think of friends now as ALLIANCES.
And, like how you learned that male authenticity is dead when Gaming women, you are going to develop a similar skill set to socially Game alliances.
It's crazy to think, but maybe I'm not alone on this... as my friend circle dissolved, I was so focused on working on my Game with women that my male-to-female social skills became sharp and effortless, but my male-to-male friendship forging skills became weak and insecure due to lack of use!
It's embarrassing, but it's true.... so, the very first rule to male-to-male social game is:
DO NOT TALK TO OTHER MEN LIKE YOU TALK TO YOUR BITCHES.
This may seem like retarded advice to you, and hopefully it does... but I caught myself a few times using the same slightly-condscending snark tone when talking to new guys at an MMA gym I was training at and I felt mortified... then I saw RSD Tyler mention this as a common problem with men entrenched in PUA, so I thought it might be something good to mention.
In my last post, I had casually mentioned how learning the different between NERD TALK and VIBING was a break through moment for me, and I got a ton of responses asking me to post the RSD Tyler video I saw it in... and, for the life of me, I cannot find it, but I can do a pretty decent explanation of it:
My brain is wired for NERD TALK; I think a lot of men on this board may have this problem also- if you're here for more than immediately useful sexual strategy; if you have a genuine interest in RED PILL theory or truth-seeking, chances are your brain is wired for nerd talk. Nerd talk is conversation with a purpose, and that purpose is typically some degree of truth seeking, or entrenched heavily in details and statistics; Nerd talk is all about WHAT is being said; if you are any good at gaming women, chances are you are NOT using nerd talk, or very very minially (likely in the form of Power Talk).
VIBING is conversation without purpose; the purpose is solely socialization, and the positive feelings of all the participants. If you are vibing with someone, and they're recounting details of a story and there are factual inaccuracies, the vibing solution is to just go with it. Vibing is very easy and relaxed.
To draw an example to distinguish the two, take a conversation about a UFC fight:
Guy in your office: "Did you see the UFC fight over the weekend? I can't believe Nate KO'ed Conner!"
You, vibing: "Yeah, that was crazy!"
You, nerd talking: "Well, Conner isn't really a natural welterweight, and he wasn't ready for Nate's reach... I mean, yeah, it was impressive, but I don't really know what it means in the overall picture of Conner's abilities"
VIBING is essentially any variation of "Yeah, that was crazy!" whereas nerd talk is detail and analysis heavy. Always start vibing with someone, and if they seem to be open to nerd talk, proceed from there... nerd talk definitely can build relationships with people, but if the vibe isn't there as a foundation, you'll never get anywhere socially with them.
When you get good at understanding the difference, you'll see how conversations with people will often be a mixture of the two, or will often shift back and forth naturally... For example, two guys in my office are old school pro-wrestling; if you were ever exposed to that culture, there are two types of pro-wrestling fans- nerds and casuals, and casuals sometimes think they're nerds... so it can be kinda confusing. Me and one of the guys kinda felt each other out, and now we nerd talk about it... the other guy tries to engage us in nerd talk, but has tons of bizarre opinions and silly inaccuracies- when he talks with us, we revert to vibing with him... point being, once it becomes something more natural, you'll be able to distinguish between the two rather easily and know which to use in what situation.
Other MISC Social Tips:
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A lot of guys had posted asking about social anxiety; my own tip, besides daily mindful meditation, is to consciously remind yourself to SLOW DOWN when interacting with someone new.. I find that I am too quick to make comments, or offer information, or give an opinion... not only does it seem to eager, and ergo kinda desperate, but it runs against the vibe... always mind the vibe first!
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Always say LESS THAN NECESSARY (Law of Power No.04); remember, mind the vibe! It's not about facts and opinions, as much as it is building a fun and comforting environment. Also, saying too much runs the risk of over-exposing yourself with someone, or coming off annoying and desperate to impress.
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Take one second to smile and greet someone after visually recognizing them. It seems less robotic and far more authentic; remember, like with women, seeming authentic counts.
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Always mingle with everyone.
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Don't be afraid of small talk; pointless bullshit. For years I avoided little chats about the weather at work, because what did it really accomplish? It accomplished establishing a vibe with someone, which means so much more than conversation with purpose (nerd talk).
- Always mind the vibe!
Like my post? Read my blog; www.KilltoParty.com (UPDATED 03/23: The Evolution of Equality)
Dolphintorpedo 9y ago
Great point made, the issue I (like many others) are having is being a tad bit too narcissistic and having an inflated ego, for the purpose of game. I find myself correcting people on every little fact with respect to history, politics, and science. However, I realize that this can only take you so far before the person holding the conversation knows more about the topics being discussed, which ends up with you being the fool.
Note of Interest: Vibing could also be considered admitting your ignorance (or playing dumb) and allowing the other party to elaborate on the topic they find most appealing.
dispatcherselfish 9y ago
Holy shit I do this all the time.
RustyJack82 9y ago
Thank you for writing this. Reading it helped me understand several of IllimitableMan's Machiavellian Maxims (IMMM) from http://illimitablemen.com/2016/03/07/machiavellian-maxims-part-2/
This goes well with:
And
Also when you wrote this:
It helps make sense of this:
In this case Refutation is Nerd Talk - dispute based on hard technical facts. But a lot of people can't distinguish between Refutation/Nerd Talk and Undermining. So in such cases, you have to fall back on vibing to build trust.
Kafkaevsky 9y ago
"And then you used that same strategy in your relationships with women... and here you are." +420 headshot.
awalt_cupcake 9y ago
This is an awesome article. One can call vibing story telling. Most conversational pieces are stories. When someone is conversing with you and your bullshit radar is going off the charts, tell yourself "what a story!"
LastRevision 9y ago
There was a game we used to play in High School improv class called "BEST FRIENDS" where you and a partner take turns telling a story and you are never supposed to contradict one another- only building on one-another's parts and adding to the story, so you aren't supposed to stop them and say, "no no, it wasn't a taco bell, it was a pizza hut," or anything like that...
I try to apply this to conversing with new people or co-workers; let them bullshit up a storm, and eat it up for them.
My inner nerd always feels the urge to correct people's inaccurate facts, etc., NOT because I'm the type to get off on it for ego/superiority- I'm someone who'd WANT to be corrected if I got something wrong- but it's going to come off as ego no matter what.... again, accuracy is a hallmark of NERD TALK and the vast majority of people DO NOT give a shit and just want to VIBE.
(... or they're stupid and would rather feel smart than learn anything)
PenInACup 9y ago
Your the first person I've ever heard say that you WANT to be corrected other than me. I think it comes to intelligence, more intelligent people (less percent of population) love knowledge and don't find offense for wholes in their thoughts and theories, while less intelligent people have never felt this before so they are put off.
awalt_cupcake 9y ago
People wanting to vibe was the hardest thing for me to grasp tbh. Talking about wrong stuff made me wrong, made me remember false things, and lo and behold the self is built upon a foundation of lies. If your logic is flawed, you come undone.
Turns out, even though there's merit to that, people don't give a fuck. Might as well bullshit to get what I want and try to fact check inside my head so I never forget what's what.
DforDeadpool 9y ago
For me too. People who wants to sit and talk about the weather, exams, roads, random bullshit? Just basic small talk? What's in it for me, I thought. Call me an autist but it never made sense.
Yet, it's not a bad way to establish connections. Random vibing is good because it builds comfort and may lead to deeper connections.
awalt_cupcake 9y ago
I understood small talk. For me it was a way to scrape for information about the person and get an idea of who they are. What I didn't get was gossip, lying, and investing a lot of time on a topic which is generally what vibing is. I wanted to move on and do other things. Like, let's actually become something worth talking about or let's make something we can share with our friends.
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unicorn-carousel 9y ago
Very interesting primate grooming comparison. I've thought similarly about your latter point--using small talk / refusing to talk--replacing "small talk" in your description with "charm". Did you happen to read "what every body is saying" or similar recently? If no, highly recommended.
[deleted] 9y ago
Friends and peers would really be nice, but the place where I'm hurting most is the lack of a mentor. It is almost impossible to find a true mentor these days.
The rare times I have found one, they have literally been hidden. For example, the guy I learned lapidary stone polishing and gemsetting from is LITERALLY a guy that stays underground all day with his collection, he had a kind of cave/house thing. It's not like I can just sign up for that shit, I got lucky finding him.
MeditateErrDay 9y ago
I enjoyed this. I'm someone that typically hates small talk because it seems pointless and a waste of time. But now that I see the point of small talk being to build a deeper bond...now we're talking...
CoupDeGrace22 9y ago
I concur,swallowing the pill while eye opening is also isolating,once you shift from the AFC victim/beta mentality,you inevitably can't stand 80% of your circle(If not of the population) for more than the occasional beer,and that very difference in mental polarity is what shatters the authentic friendships we reminisce from younger days.I have found said death of authenticity paved the way for machiavellianism,which combined with basic limbic language understanding and charisma gives a man easy social dominance,be it the hb6 barista that repeatedly won't charge your coffee,the employer giving you an easier time,the beta coworker willingly doing chores for you,the list goes on. At the end of the day though,the above means shit compared to a strong authentic friendship.
Also,Enviroment is a big factor e.g in my country males serve a year of obligatory military service,which(surprise,surprise)was one of the few places where I got to find like minded dudes and forge true friendships that endured despite distance and time.
The nerd talk insight is a first though,for some of us it's common sense to not indulge in socratic debates with just about anyone before small talk,"probing" if you will,but good job pointing out the importance of vibing,since again to some it's a terrible bore,but is basic rapport for the masses.
el_superbeastooo 9y ago
Same here though I don't live there anymore, I served mandatory military service and made friends for life. While there are plenty betas and bullshit in any army, its one of the few places where a man is forced to nut up and quit being a little shit.
validstatement 9y ago
How does one pick up on Machiavellianism, besides reading 48 Laws?
RPsage 9y ago
48 Laws of power
http://illimitablemen.com/power/
https://archive.org/details/artofworldlywisd00gracuoft
Read this stuff over and over again, practice it, commit it to memory. If you need more than the above resources, your mind isn't cut out for it.
Edit: Forgot powertalk
http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/11/11/the-gervais-principle-ii-posturetalk-powertalk-babytalk-and-gametalk/
Dustin_Bromain 9y ago
This is good advice. I have a few friends that I could say that I'll know them for life, but they're all off doing other things far away from me. Making local male friends is always a challenge, it seems. I absolutely hate having no consistent daily male friends. Is anyone else in college and has this problem? All my good bros (save one) graduated.
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Dustin_Bromain 9y ago
Agh. yeah man, that's already starting to happen to me. I know that I have really solid connections with at least 3 of my best guy friends but they're all over the place, like I said. But of course, women are ever-present and everywhere, being fish, saying fish things, doing fish shit. Ugh.
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IntrovertSigma 9y ago
Vibing is useful to get people to like you.
But it's not always necessary to have people like you.
LastRevision 9y ago
It's not good to NEED people to like you, but I can't see how it isn't useful to, at least, understand the mechanics of getting people to like you and employing them at will; I would say a smart default is to have people like you, and then do with that what you will.
IntrovertSigma 9y ago
Yes needing is never good.
It's a good skill to have, definitely.
The default really depends on the circumstances.
In professional life the default for me is to be likeable (as much as I can).
Outside of that I prefer to be more polarising. Helps me reach my goals with more efficiency. But that's just me.
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