I can't understand how any of you here would commit to a girl who's had even 1 partner before you. Our culture is so far gone that some shameless wannabe "alphas" even say that 5 previous partners is okay with them. Every macho culture across the world (including 1950's America) concluded that non-virgin girls were garbage for marriage, but "trp alphas" see absolutely no problem with that.
I've gained so much knowledge from reading the sidebar as well as reading posts by some endorsed users but if I were to be honest, a lot of people on this sub have low standards. Part of the reason why our culture has encouraged unrestrained hypergamy and low quality women is that men dropped their standards and accepted the bullshit liberal-progressives put out.
How many men need to get burned by jezebels and harpies before we arrive to the same conclusion as our ancestors that promiscuous women are trashy and destroy the nuclear family? How many damaged kids do single-parent households need to produce before we can conclude that children without fathers are detrimental to society and cause an increase in crime and infectious diseases?
I know that TRP is not a subreddit for social change like r/ mensrights but it causes me undue stress to see ignoramuses here saying that it's okay to marry/LTR women with high n-counts.
Kaelteth 11y ago
I've been married 21 years. Wife had a n=0 before we met.
I do not believe for one second that the success of our marriage and her partner count before me is a coincidence.
Talon1212 11y ago
Studies have shown...
AK27ABROAD 11y ago
You have a link for this research in its entirety, or for the abstract? I'd love to see it.
TRPn00b 11y ago
Which direction does the causality run though? Not that it matters for the sake of decision-making, but I wonder.
NineInchPitchfork 11y ago
It is all about priorities for a partner. My list included: high SMV (attractive), intelligent, good mother potential, career but willing to stay at home when kids are young, similar cultural/religious values, complementary lifestyle, non-feminist, etc. Being a virgin never made my list because I didn't (and still don't care). If virginity is a big deal to you, then you make it a priority.
I had an n=5< by the time I graduated high school and the only virgins I met in university I nexted because it was either become celibate or get married way too soon. One was way hot (9 HB) but Mormon and there was no way I was going to convert and get married just to bang her. She let me (after a month or two as bf/gf) lick her tits and give her OTP finger rubs. To me it seemed silly to draw the line between that and intercourse. Plus, I always went home with blue balls. (note: technically her n count remained zero but she gave herself to me, so not all virgins are "innocent")
I think the division here is between very traditional sexual values versus modern (Western culture) pro-sexual society. The two are incompatible in my view. If I had been born and raised in Khabul, I would probably have a different perspective.
Kaelteth 11y ago
Virginity, in and of itself, isn't a big deal.
Her ability to pair-bond is. And studies have shown that the ability for a woman to pair-bond is inversely proportional to the number of cocks she's ridden prior to you.
My wife was no prude, but also hadn't ridden the cock train. And part of our long-term success in marriage, in my personal opinion, is the fact that I was (and remain) the only dick that she has taken in her vagina. It is only one factor of many, but it contributes.
If I was a single guy, I cannot imagine marrying in today's feminist bullshit culture. I'm lucky because I locked in someone "good" at a time where riding the CC was still considered morally wrong. Today sucks for marriage...although damn would I enjoy banging my way through a sea of pussy.
NineInchPitchfork 11y ago
I don't think that pair bonding (PB) is very well understood in TRP. We tend to rely on the simplified (but often inaccurate) representation from evolutionary psychology. However, the science on that which the theory is based is slightly more complicated and there is one key distinction: trigger event variable. For animals this relates to mating activities like hormone signalling, setting, courtship rituals, etc - physical variables.
For humans (because of the neo-cortex and voluntary and complex subcortical function), pb occurs with the release of hormones and neuropeptides (oxytocin, AVP - arginine vasopressin, prolactin) that act on the reward (dopamine) pathways in the brain - emotional variables.
This has been demonstrated many times in studies with imaging scans and concurrent tissue/blood sampling. Here is one such study: http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v7/n10/full/nn1327.html Further, it is theorized that this response is more pronounced in females as they are more emotionally labile. This makes sense to me as women are more prone to regard 'feelings' as imprtant. It would not surprise me if there neo-cortex was more responsive to emotional (love) cuing.
This is another area where animals are not as complex as humans in terms of brain functioning. Pb is a biological occurrence within the expertise of neurology. It cannot be adequately understood as a psychological occurrence which explains why evo psych types often misunderstand or misinterpret the research.
The implications for this are that a virgin may have extensively pb'd with a high school sweetheart or in an Alpha-widow (no intercourse) scenario. Alternatively, a woman who, fully subscribed to the belief that sex can be a recreational activity of lower commitment, could participate in the hook up culture and not experience significant pb. This of course has to be distinguished from the woman who has had many significant LTR love/sex relationships who will have pb.
Tl;dr: You cannot examine only n-count to make an accurate prediction of female pb occurence(s). You need to know how many crushes she has had too. Love (emotion) is more significant than sex (physical) for creation of human pair bonding.
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Master1176 11y ago
I completely disagree. This really sounds like anger stage to me. Sure, we'd all like to go back to the Little House on the Prairie, but that isn't the world we live in.
If you are confident enough, have outcome independence, and lay the pipe well, you'll be the best she's ever had. And of course, don't get married at all, But for LTRs? Whaaaaat? Your strategy will work very well if you never want to get laid.
HorseLifer 11y ago
Bottom line I want a girl that's going to fuck the shit out of me. Have you guys ever had sex with a virgin? It's awkward as fuck. They have no clue what they're doing in bed.
My ideal girl has slept with 20-25 dudes, understands EXACTY what she wants and doesn't want in her relationship and is willing to give me everything to lock me down. I want a girl that's bold, funny and is all over my dick 24/7. That's the girl I'm going to reward. She needs to be open to new experiences. If she's into other girls thats a plus
I don't know why you guys are obsessed with how many guys a girl has slept with. Do you realize how many opportunities a hot girl has to have sex?
OMFGTRIGGERED 11y ago
Ok I'll bite, where do i find a young hot virgin in the US that is not crazy as all hell/a total prude?
No really, what fucking dreamland are you in where i can find this type of woman?
My standards for a gf is dont be fat, be hot enough to give me a boner and dont fuck me on the first night. Yearly average is 3 women a year that dont fuck me first night. 3 a fucking year. Imagine how much more unlikely it seems that id find a virgin plus above standards AND a matching personality (as in non sjw). We cant afford to have high standards without starving for months or years.
Correct answer for TRP men is not to marry in the first place, cohabitation plus some kind of legal agreement to never have common law marriage go into effect is god tier choice.
Kaelteth 11y ago
The difference is, as always, in what you're after.
If you're looking for women to shag, who cares how many dicks they've had? Does she get you hard? Then fuck on brother, fuck on.
If you're going to marry a chick...N=0, MAYBE N=1 is all but mandatory for success.
TheOboeMan 11y ago
Yep. N=1 is highest I'm willing to go.
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Kaelteth 11y ago
That's part of the point resonating all over this sub:
Don't get married. There are no unicorns.
I found a N=0 woman....23 years ago, and I married her since she was worthy in my opinion in that, and other areas (see: traditional family values). But today? You're entirely correct.
Philhelm 11y ago
STD's are still a consideration.
Kaelteth 11y ago
True, but one that can be fairly easily mitigated, if not eliminated (protection, STD testing, etc).
I know a chick that's probably banged half a thousand dudes. I wouldn't ever EVER consider LTRing her, but I also know her well enough that she always uses protection and gets tested after each new partner, and I'd fuck the shit out of her if I was a single guy.
Assassin1476 11y ago
It's not that a lot of people here have low standards, it's that we've accepted that whatever Utopian time period you're choosing to use as a reference to better days no longer exist within the 21st century in the year 2015. We've also accepted that women have an inherent nature that's completely biological and no set time period will be able to ever completely rule out this behavior. So "trp alphas" learn how to adapt to their world, in any situation, take the good with the bad, maximize the good and minimize the bad, and make the best with their lives.
Besides, you honestly don't think women in the 1950's wouldn't be doing what girls do now in 2015 if they were able to do so? The way women get wet, screaming and lose their minds at a Chris Brown concert is the same way women got wet, screaming and lost their minds when they were seeing a young Elvis singing and dancing his ass off in 1956.
More importantly, where do you currently reside at that have a bunch of female virgins walking around or have a low partner count between 1-5 because that's where I need to be headed.
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ferengiprophet 11y ago
You don't think that other societies realized that AWALT existed? We didn't invent the concept, we merely rediscovered it. What societies in the past did was create structures like religion and pro-family laws to keep hypergamy in check and encourage the formation of nuclear households.
They knew about the sluttiness of women and even protested against the availability of birth control because they realized that it would lead to promiscuity and the destruction of family.
Assassin1476 11y ago
I agree with your point 100% and if I made my original post any longer, it would have included some of what you just said in there. The shit we have on the red pill is not anything special or new; it's been around since the dawn of humans. I really think ancient civilizations had the right idea back then when it came to certain things back then because they understood that aspect of the world better than we do today. We're really digressing actually.
[deleted] 11y ago
Jesus Christ enough is enough. Y'all are living in a dream world. There aren't enough n- count 0/1 attractive women over 18 out there for half the rich as fuck natural alphas out there yet alone all y'all recovering betas that need constant conscious effort to remember not top give in to your plate's hissy fits. Say you do luck out and find one at 18. What are you going to do, tell her she can't go to college cuz she'll be happier spending heer entire youth in the 2000s sheltered from tinder and social media popping out cute little babies for you while you're at the gym and working on your blog business to break you free from your corporate IT job? Get fucking real.
I'm not saying go wife up some 29 year olds single mother who's had 6300 partners, but acting like a woman is fucking damaged beyond repair after 5-10 partners is fucking ridiculous. It's not them with commitment issues, It's you with major confidence issues. Deep down you fear the Chad cuz you know at the end of the day you're still Billy beta and you CAN'T live up to the 5 partners she's had before. Harden the fuck up!
If you meet a girl and you've actually learned something from the improving yourself side of rp instead of just hiding behind your monitor going on AWALT witch hunts, it doesn't matter if she lost her virginity in high school, Had four fuck buddies in college, a one night stand or two and a boyfriend after college she dumped after he cried about being so stressed from his 9-5 customer service job he was stuck in. If you can provide some tingles and can lead a relationship like a fucking man you'll lock her down no problem.
But let's be honest.... most of you will never reach that level of confidence
Kaelteth 11y ago
Scientifically speaking, that woman IS damaged beyond repair from the standpoint of marrying her after she's taken more than 1 or 2 dicks in her life that aren't yours. Studies have shown, repeatedly, that a woman's ability to pair-bond and NOT be a hypergamous little whore is inversely proportional to the number of dicks she's ridden.
You're right that the odds of finding a hot 18/19 year old that isn't a complete sexual prude and hasn't ridden a pile of cocks is effectively zero. She'd be a unicorn, and unicorns don't fucking exist.
I'll fuck any woman (assuming I was single). I don't give a fuck how many dicks she's ridden before me. But if I"m marrying her, I do care...I care a fuck of alot. And bluntly, if my wife of 21 years left/died/whatever, I can't imagine marrying ever again because there are no fucking unicorns.
ferengiprophet 11y ago
I don't have confidence issues. I have a strong primal desire to not support a girl who's had a train run on her. My money, time, and emotions are worth way more than that. Our society is so used to the destruction that has been brought about by the sexual revolution that the standard advice you get here for dealing with promiscuous broads is to suck it up and be more alpha than the past Chads in her life.
This doesn't work and that's why so many guys-- even alphas like Kobe and Tiger Woods-- get burned. As Jay Z said, "they say you can't turn a bad girl good, but once a good girl's gone bad, she's gone forever."
You can either accept the scraps from the bottom of the dumpster or do something to bring about the return of patriarchal institutions again. Most people here don't give a shit so they are just fine with giving their money to a rekt bitch.
[deleted] 11y ago
"to not support a girl who's had a train run on her."
"dealing with promiscuous broads is to suck it up and be more alpha than the past chads in her life"
Hello anger phase. You're implying that any girl that's slept with more than a single dude is a promiscuous broad that slept with all four dudes in one gang bang extravaganza.
Fuck dude get out of your apartment, start thinking about women as more than a cog in your master plan for SUPREME ALPHANESS and recognize they are imperfect talking monkeys just like you. They'll make mistakes, they'll go through phases where they don't know what they want.
If you can't get past the fact that she had a different dick in her at one point and maybe enjoyed it a bit you have deeper issues
69Cobalt 11y ago
Wow, personally attacking confidence and masculinity if his ideas don't agree with yours,there's no group I can think of today that does that.
"they'll make mistakes,they'll go through phases where they don't know what they want "
OHHHH like when they spend their 20s "finding themselves" until they hit the wall and then have a revelation that they want to settle down.
If anything,the fact that someone's made certain pretty big mistakes in the past makes me not want to trust them with important things in the future. Nothing personal but I care about myself enough to not invest in something that is proven to have made big mistakes instead of something with a relatively clean record.
There probably is some truly reformed previous CC rider that would make a great mother and wife ; but I'm not risking my wellbeing or that of my future children's with those shitty odds.
ferengiprophet 11y ago
I'm long past the anger phase but I'm a natural conservative. I think that traditional values made this country great and provided a two-parent home for the vast majority of kids that were born.
This paradigm of fucking around until you get old and tired has seen a rise in STDs, single-parent homes and the subsequent issues with crime. It's a bankrupt system that works for the 20% of the 20% and leaves the rest of society in disarray.
Being a self-respecting man, I will not commit my resources to the bottom of the barrel garbage.
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Soriq 11y ago
LOL @ marriage period. And btw low n-count girls don't exist in modern society OP
mikejuliettbravo 11y ago
If you are that concerned with a girl having a high (define high however you want) n-count, then you're worried you're not alpha enough to hold her. By the transitive property, this means you are not an alpha. Being an alpha means bending (and moreso believing you can bend) the world to your will. If the most perfect girl in the world fucked 5 guys when she was 18, and is now 22 and hasn't slept with anyone since - would this change your perspective?
Speaking in absolutes about something other than yourself is the antithesis of being alpha. Being alpha means commanding ownership of your own life and your surroundings. Would I personally want a girl who's slept with 50 people? No, but it's not because I'm worried about her staying mine, it's because I don't respect her ability to choose well. Whether a girl fucks 5 dudes 1 time or 1 dude 50 times, well, you be the judge of which is worse by your logic.
**TL;DR if you were truly alpha, you wouldn't care unless YOU cared. Caring or not caring about anything because of a societal standard is pussy BP stuff. Alpha means doing things YOUR way.
tomysotomayorfuxboys 11y ago
Compare the age of consent, average age of losing virginity, and average age of 1st marriage, and you'll see the problem with finding a virgin girl in modern western society.
Clockshade 11y ago
Hahahaha! Gotta go to Germany to find a nice virgin wife.
tomysotomayorfuxboys 11y ago
I think you'd have to pick a different destination.
Clockshade 11y ago
I have no idea. I just said that since the age of consent is 14. Just of a joke. I guess they're pretty kinky over there?
whenfoom 11y ago
It would be the beginning of utopia if men collectively agreed and had the strength of will to commit that: we will fuck hoes, but only marry virgins.
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KyfhoMyoba 11y ago
That's because such girls are extremely rare, and most of us just aren't that patient, or willing to take the time and investigate enough women to find a decent one.
NineInchPitchfork 11y ago
That's probably an awesome idea if you plan on getting married at age 16. However, if you get married at age 35 the prospects of finding a virgin bride who is normal seem pretty remote. Either she's going to be highly religious, unattractive (female incel), has a physiological problem (low libido) or psychological issues (with sexuality). None of those options work for me or many men.
Also, I think it is not a case of others having low standards but you (OP) having sexual insecurity issues. Perhaps you feel your dick is too small or that you are not good in bed? Get your SMV up and gain some more experience and those fears will diminish.
Edit: this pretty much sums up my attitude on this:
http://m.imgur.com/KwQYLVl
Kaelteth 11y ago
Hint: Don't get married at 35. Unless it is to a 19 year old with a N=0
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NineInchPitchfork 11y ago
Because I don't know any guys who are Alpha or high SMV (with confidence ) who give a shit about n-counts (beyond total sluttiness). The guys that I have met that do, tend to be: religious, neckbeards, low SMV, inadequacy issues (short, small dick, suck in bed, etc), psychological problems or some combination of the foregoing.
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Semper_I 11y ago
Our fleshy meat bags can't handle this society we've made and it's fucking up our primate brains with all this materialism, rampant hypergamy and uber SJW reality tv. We don't have to change much-the Earth will show us the error of our ways eventually.
bea5tly 11y ago
Um who commits to girls? We plate them. Who the fuck cares about how many cocks shes rode on the CC. If your fucking her its your turn. Nothing else. No one here wants a LTR//Marriage