There are certain moment in a man's life that open his eyes. Certain indelible moments that stick to his brain and change or confirm his beliefs entirely.
My goal on this sub is to help men reach this point, through life changes, but, more importantly, individual steps; the journey of a thousand miles and all that.
Quick aside: I'm an asshole: It's not on purpose, I'm just pretentious, verbose, and I drink a lot. I have a staunch proclivity for pushing people away.
So while I'm not someone to emulate, the plus side is a series of eye opening moments created from my dearth of social tact. In trying to push women away I accidentally opened my eyes to something great: Convincing them I'm a high value man.
My apathy and self-loathing, personal problems that should have lowered my value as a person, convinced her I was better than she was by sheer dismissal.
As always, I like to turn my personal travesties, and shitty life into advice and ideas for you great men.
- Walking Away.
I can't help it, when people start discussing topics I feel no interest in or their behavior or attitudes begin to irk me, I walk away. I don't announce it. I don't say where I'm going, I just leave and go do something that makes me happy(usually drinking.)
Turns out, this is seen as quasi-social rebellion, walking away from the group to invest in your own interests. Even better is when you strike up a conversation with a woman and it stops entertaining you and you simply excuse yourself and walk away.
While not a full proof plan by any means, I've had numerous experiences where these women will find me later in the night, occasionally immediately tracking me down to ask where I'm going.
Walking away is such a strong move because it establishes that you're comfortable in your own skin and aren't reliant on others for personal happiness.
2."Then Leave"
This has actually become my go to gem, literally the foundation of my entire frame. I'm an offensive person, in such that, while not actively offensive, I often am honest in a socially irresponsible way, thus offending people.
In my more...feminine days...I would apologize when my social tact slipped, but it was so clearly disingenuous that I would look even worse. That's when I realized I didn't want to be around women who couldn't stand my banter or be so easily offended.
So, when the offense occurred, I began telling them, casually, sans anger or outburst, "Then Leave". Insinuating if you don't like what I'm saying, if it truly bothers you, then walk away like I would in this situation.
Most men are so afraid of losing women that they'd rather change how they talk, act, and behave rather than actually get what they want.
It's the ultimate win-win: Either they walk away and you get the change you crave, or she stays around and has committed entirely to your frame. She can't of back from this. There's no recovery.
3."Fuck You"
Little warning, this is not for every man. This is a line that requires a great deal of confident and, most importantly, sincerity. You have to really mean this shit and be able to back it up.
This line works on both men and women, similar results, and similar sincerity backing it. When you tell someone FUCK YOU, you have to be completely ready for the consequences and how to handle them.
With men, clearly, you need to be ready for a fight. While most men are pussies nowadays and you'll usually watch them back down, every so often you'll meet a real man and you've got to fight him.
With women there is no more powerful phrase when used correctly. It's the ultimate I'm a man, this is who I am, take it or leave it phrase. You've crossed a line and this is how we either cross back over or end it.
In both cases, it's the last straw. It's such a powerful moment because, simply put, there's no going back from it; there's no "JK"; no "I didn't mean it lol"; no backing down. It's a terrifying moment the second those words escape your lips, and in that moment you are forced to conquer your fear or suffer under the weight of it.
easternenigma 10y ago
I agree with your first two but..
I'm going to go ahead and assume that you most likely don't say "fuck you" to people that will kick your ass. Therefore you're not really displaying any kind of alpha traits. You're just pushing social boundaries over those who you feel you have an edge on. Most guys who put on this bad ass image only do it with situations or people where they can get away with it.
This is the very definition of a beta bully move.
rporion 10y ago
I don“t say "fuck you".
I say "no".
For some people this is literally the "N" word.
[deleted] 10y ago
I don't look at people in that way. Thats a cowards mentality. I've lost plenty of fights. Losing a fight doesn't make you less of a man, not standing up for what you believe does.
slcjosh 10y ago
Alpha omega sigma what the fuck ever. If you tell someone "fuck you "and you mean it it's a lot stronger than saying nothing.
Psychoptic 10y ago
If it's in the right context, like someone treating you substandardly, and not just over an argument or something dumb.
[deleted] 10y ago
That is surely good advice for anyone who has not yet developed a stable personality, but is still struggling to overcome his insecurities. Of course, no real leader of men will ever resort to such silly behavior.
[deleted] 10y ago
Juvenile. All you really need is the first one. If someone doesn't like what I have to say, I don't even part my lips to say "then leave" let alone "fuck you." That just makes you look weak. I just shrug to let them know they don't register.
Dokkobro 10y ago
His point was that he didn't need to be stifled by a bitch whilst he was making a statement or such. I don't see how shutting down a woman with a straight face and continuing to convey your lecture is breaking frame. I agree I wouldn't do this on a sales floor but at a party where I know no one and we are all drinking sometimes it's straight up necessary. Also, it's possible to be a clown about this, my dad is the king at playing with his buddies wives heads.
slcjosh 10y ago
Articulately explain a situation where this might happen... I bet you can't.
[deleted] 10y ago
What? Where someone is offeneed by what I say? It doesn't happen often as I generally don't care enough about most situations or people enough to really discuss the matters to the point that where things get to that level. However, if I do, I don't get upset about it. People are offeneed all the time. I just assume they're adults and they'll live.
[deleted] 10y ago
My friend you mistake confrontation with weakness.
This is a bad habit. Stoicism is not the be all end all of manhood.
[deleted] 10y ago
You couldn't be more incorrect. You're confusing confrontation with strength. When you create unnecessary conflicts you're projecting a strength you don't have, because if you had it, you wouldn't feel the need to show off. Like the Geto Boys said "Real gangsta ass niggas don't flex nuts, cause real gangsta ass niggas know they got em."
[deleted] 10y ago
Confrontation can show strength if used correctly.
Everything in context my friend.
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foldpak111 10y ago
No matter what someone says to me I won't fight unless hands are put on me. That's a man right there.
[deleted] 10y ago
Or if you talk during Ellen. I love that show.
KyfhoMyoba 10y ago
I used to have a serious crush on Ellen. Little bit's still there.
[deleted] 10y ago
The first two seem like very good points. The third one, however I don't really agree with. It seems like saying "fuck you" is breaking frame, which is rather contradictive.
[deleted] 10y ago
Nope.
You needn't be emotional, just deliver it and really mean it.
It's a nuclear fucking bomb and it forces you to own it. It's not something that I would casually use, but there come moments when it is needed.
[deleted] 10y ago
What OP is describing goes a lot deeper I think. I realized this with myself not so long ago that I simply cannot connect anymore with people in a complete way. Like you connected with your childhood friends or teenage friends or your first workmates. I walk away from interactions that do not interest me if I cannot change the course to something that interests me. I always have a distance when talking to anyone. This is anti-social and it is taken worse than staying within the social interaction but seeking conflict. I don't know if this anti-social or anti-bonding behavior is because of maturity or just the way people are different.
I have no problem talking to anybody and making friends with strangers, but there is a limit to the level of friendship that I can't step over. It just feels homosexual to me to bond with another man, these behaviors are reserved for women and future children. You will be a little bit outcast if you cannot bond, but if you have this soul I think you are also made of the stuff to be a leader.
It's like ere are two kinds of people. Those who need to bond with somebody. Who needs to be in a relationship or spend time with friends. And those who can be their own company. If you can be your own company you have more freedom in your interactions with other people. You don't need a get-to-know phase with somebody because you don't have to invest yourself in them and sacrifice part of yourself by bonding. It's paradoxically easier to make friends because there is no anxiousness about it.
Almost all relationships and social interactions become that of leader-follower. One person decides the frame and is the master, and the other submits. I never submit, even if it is my boss at work. I'll do the job the best I can, but the focus is always on the job, never on pleasing the boss. No matter the situation I won't submit. And I've always refused to take control over other people also, but lately I've realized that people don't mind. They want to be controlled, to leave the responsibility to somebody else. Like with women. They actually prefer much for somebody to control them and even if they bitch and moan they prefer this to being responsible over themselves.
I think a lot of conflict arises from this, inter-personal and political. One party wants to be controlled and strives to submit in any situation. The other party wants the first to take their own responsibility and refuses to take a full leadership position.
This post is a mess, but these things are very difficult to discuss in words.
[deleted] 10y ago
I get where you're going because I too find it hard to make new friends.
Bsck in high school I was class clown, captain of the football team, all that social bullshit. Then I reached a point of toxicity where I hated everyone because it was impossible to differentiate between friends and parasites.
So now I have the same 4 friends I've had for a decade and this is most of the reason I'm so quick to pull out of conversations. I genuinely don't care.
Force_Titan 10y ago
Why I took from this all: There might actually be a man out there that will actually fight me when presented the opportunity.
[deleted] 10y ago
That is life and you need to accept it. They've feminized us and removed our balls as best they could but real men still roam the earth.
Outside is dangerous, always has been. The second you walk outside anything can happen. This is what they forgot to tell feminists when they were selling them on equality. You can either live in fear or stand strong in the face of it.
Pro tip: punches don't hurt as bad as you think. You recover. Your body can take alot.
[deleted] 10y ago
First 2 points make perfect sense.
Can you give some examples of when you would use "fuck you?"
I'm just having trouble grasping the context of where it would be effective. I get it creates conflict, but I'm struggling to understand how you use it.
I'm sure you're not just walking up to people and saying "fuck you". Is it the end of your conversations when you are just sick of the person; is it when a girl is being a complete cunt, etc.?
[deleted] 10y ago
Fuck yoy is for when someone crosses the line and you simply can't take it.
When your wife cuts deep with the deepest insecurity yiu ever shared with her. When your girl insults yiur mother or tries to emasculate in front of friends or your kids.
When any man threatens your well being or tries to tear down your sense of self.
Fuck you isn't for the casual confrontation, it's the final straw.
[deleted] 10y ago
Gotcha! And ohh good, I thought I was using it wrong. Thank you for confirming that I wasn't.
ReasonSeven 10y ago
I agree with the first two points,but the third is a bit off. Most real men aren't going to throw down with some random dude just over a fuck you. That's losing frame and it suggest insecurity. There are better ways to handle some one saying "fuck you".
Styrm 10y ago
You have to look out for yourselves in Latin American countries after you say that to someone even though warranted.
slcjosh 10y ago
He never said go to blows. He just said be prepped.
Polorutz 10y ago
I usually go with "I know you want to but you're not my type".
Either makes them laugh or triggers the fight, either way you don't lose frame.
[deleted] 10y ago
If you're out drinking and say that to a bloke you can expect a fight a decent percentage of the time.
foldpak111 10y ago
If you look and act like a crazy person not really.
slcjosh 10y ago
Not really. Most people don't want to fight and if you got the nuts.. advantage you.
[deleted] 10y ago
maybe it's different outside of the england then because I see fights pretty much every week up town
[deleted] 10y ago
Brit here, people fight for looking at people the wrong way when drinking, it's the shit weather I'm sure.
[deleted] 10y ago
No, there's not
I've said fuck you twice this year. It's not some casual and toss out, it's a reaction to when someone has crossed the line and my line is deep as fuck. It takes a whole lot to cross it so the only people who do are those who do it with bad intent.
Calling me nigger has no effect. Hitting on my girl no reaction.
Fuck you is reserved for the man who hits on my girl because he thinks he's a better man than me aND belittles me in front of her to prove it.
Thats one fuck you to him before he walked away and fuck you to her for not telling him to leave.
[deleted] 10y ago
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[deleted] 10y ago
I'm not sure if trolling or if bad reader but Im an optimist so I'll assume the latter.
When a man hits on your girl that is not a fuck you moment, it's a moment to test your girls dedication and your frame.
When a man hits on your girl, you kindly make a stand, and he then decides to belittle and demean you in front of your girl and she giggles and gives out playful stop its then it's a fuck you.
This whole monk stoicism you guys have a hard on for isn't true manliness, it's a big piece but you also need to know how to make a stand when necessary.
feelinglazy 10y ago
Yep, Chris from GLL sums it up perfectly here:
http://www.goodlookingloser.com/more/archive/entry/dont-be-reactive/
A lot of guys here are bought into the whole non-reactive pickup artist bullshit. Real alpha do whatever the fuck he wants.
[deleted] 10y ago
He accepts the consequences of his actions.
This non reactive stoicism shit is the scared Internet readers chicken soup for the alpha soul. How to be red pill for dummies.
CRUSHPUSSY_MARRYAMAN 10y ago
"Fuck you" is a really interesting tool in the game of social interaction. I consider it "the hammer" in the toolbag. Like you said, it's a powerful moment that makes sure everyone in the room knows the stakes. SJWs and overly sensitive dipshits won't like such bluntness in civial discourse, but you know what? Every toolbox needs a hammer.
As is natural, I've forgotten many of the interactions I had with my mother when I was younger, but one stands out vividly. My mother was RPW in a lot of ways, and she exerted that worldview in sometimes masculine ways over us children. She had to, because she was a single mother, and it worked coming from a woman because we were children and we respected her. I think that red pill philosophy being espoused in a parental environment from either gender is an interesting discussion that would be good for another topic, but I digress.
I was being a whiny little shit when my family was moving to a new house (I, being the oldest male, was doing most of the lifting and I resented it at the time). So I sat down for a break and watched my mom and sister struggling to carry a dining room table. When they noticed me just watching, my mom made a comment about how I should be helping, and I don't remember exactly what I said, but it was some shitty retort to the effect of "do it yourself." My mom stopped what she was doing, looked me dead in the eye, and said, "Fuck you."
Those two words, expressed in the way she said it, told me EVERYTHING I needed to know in that situation. I got back up and finished the job without complaint.
[deleted] 10y ago
Single mom America butchered me as well, had me afraid of women while still trying to love them.
Ironically, I learned how to deal with and exert my frame over them through single mom America so tit for tat I guess
[deleted] 10y ago
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[deleted] 10y ago
Fuck you isn't just a word, it's the ultimate challenge, the proverbial gauntlet thrown, the verbal glove slap.
Fuck you says this is my stance and you either cross the line or backdown because I won't
mordanus 10y ago
The fuck you phrase will also lead to a lot of physical conflicts with women now. As men shifted into a more feminine roll women shifted into a more masculine roll. You challenge them they will fight you so be prepared for that as well.
Learn how to control, intimidate, and the proper use of space to fuck with the minds of those that attack you. Also be prepared to act instead of react because if you hit a woman the chances of you going to jail is extremely high even if you were just defending yourself. Never let a conflict with a woman get physical if you can help it. No one will be on your side if a woman gets hurt
[deleted] 10y ago
Wanna see those masculine women go feminine real quick
Drop fuck you.
greatest_mistake 10y ago
Your first two points, I agree with. The third, not so much and here's why. You explain you'd use it as a last resort when someone crosses the line. I think of instances where I may use it. I feel like if I said that to some one, I'd be showing what they did bothered or upset me. From what I keep reading here, men don't show their hand and never react emotional when something bothers them. They just walk away and go on with their life. I feel like your third point is contradictory to some of the other advice given here.
[deleted] 10y ago
Yes, sometimes, on occasion people can get under your skin
Stoicism is strong but it's not the be all end all of manhood.
Being vulnerable and being a target are not the same thing
Being a man doesn't mean giving the world nothing
I can't restate this enough though I know I'll have to
[deleted] 10y ago
There's something good here:
The idea of "Fuck you".
The first two are easy enough to grasp. The idea of throwing down a challenge is foreign to most men - the idea of being uncompromising to the point of conflict is scary.
If you're inexperienced, practice it on yourself in the mirror right now and watch how your face contorts into expressions of apology.
[deleted] 10y ago
Fuck you is the conflict starter. It FORCES conflict. You either deal with it or wilt as a man.
It's gorgeous.
Crazywhite352 10y ago
Wow dude, I find it unsettling that theres this many fuckin PUSSIES on here. Sometimes, you just gotta tell someone "fuck you", and more than likely, if youre to the point of telling them that, then you got no qualms about fighting.
I personally grew up in a rough area, in and out of jail and all that good stuff. Confrontation is natural to me.
And youre right,most punches dont hurt nearly as bad as people think they do.
[deleted] 10y ago
As our sub grows, our message will be watered down, crowded, and invaded.
It is inevitable
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R4F1 10y ago
I liked the second one because its intellectual, you're basically asserting that's what you believe/said and no apologizing. With the third, it sounds pretty anti-intellectual. Reminded me of the saying, when you're in a debate/argument the first person to shout just lost. Blurting out a random "fuck you" sounds kinda reactionary.
GuidoBandito 10y ago
Kinda like the "you're a racist" argument, it's the "I got nothing in the way of intelligence, so I'm going to throw out the simplest argument: fuck you".
[deleted] 10y ago
It's not random.
It's not emotional.
And there are moments where intelligence fails, thus the reason intelligence has never been the most potent sexual attraction. Dumb jocks and hot bodies populated the world, there intelligence level rarely played a factor.
While I believe highly in intelligence, there's some moments where you need to go primal, be a fucking caveman.
Bearhardy 10y ago
wtf man!? you looking for fights cause I will fight motherfucker. FUCK YOU!
[deleted] 10y ago
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slcjosh 10y ago
I have. Twice. Both ended up in break ups. So what? I've made more strives as a man then I ever would have then I would have with either one of those anchors dragging me down, Fucking up my life. Do you get It now?
[deleted] 10y ago
Everything I've said works infinitely more potent on long term relstionships.
For the single man these are frame setters, for the dating man these are life changers. Long term relationships are constant work on maintaining upper hand and frame with a woman who knows all your shit.
Every so often she needs that jolt, that reminder that you're willing to walk away from the relationship the second it goes poorly, a reminder that you're the best she can do.
Test yourself: next time your girlfriend challenges who you are as a man, starts complaining that you're not doing whay her friends boys are doing, look at her in her face and calmly tell her "then leave" and go open the door. See if her whole attitude doesn't change.
And if she does leave then I've just saved you years of mental anguish and endless shit tests.
slcjosh 10y ago
This shit is gold and I resonate so much it is silly. This is me to a T. Nice post.
[deleted] 10y ago
If I didn't know better, maybe I don't and it really is you, I'd say your name is Paul Neilan.
[deleted] 10y ago
My name is Ryan Grey, I'm a vegas rapper, and I have no clue who paul nielson is but if you like him and think I sound like him then Thank you.
[deleted] 10y ago
Paul Neilan is an author who wrote one of my favorite books, Apathy and Other Small Victories. You post pretty much describes the main character in the book, Shane.
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slcjosh 10y ago
This shit is gold and I resonate so much it is silly. This is me to a T. Nice post.
[deleted] 10y ago
I think alot of men understand where I'm coming from they just couldn't articulate it or didn't know they wanted To.