Today I'd like to share an idea from Robert Greene's book "The 48 Laws of Power". A reminder to rid your enemies in life before they try to do the same to you.
LAW 15: CRUSH YOUR ENEMY TOTALLY The real world is unforgiving and shows no mercy. The moment you let your guard down be prepared for someone to take advantage of this opportunity, preventing you from reaching your goals. It's only human nature. No one in this world will show mercy for you so will you show mercy for them? CRUSH your enemy totally then. They will show no mercy for you so in return show none for them. Do not allow them an opportunity to recover. An enemy that you keep around is like a half dead viper that you nurse back to health. If you allow them to recover they will retaliate and it will lead to your downfall. Crush them totally and give no further opportunities. Do not sympathize, do not show pity or hope, do not negotiate. Crush them totally and toss them aside. It may seem cruel and amoral but in the real world it's you or them and you must do what is best for yourself and loved ones. Be the wolf among the sheep. Remove your enemies COMPLETELY or they will remove you.
notjaffo 10y ago
This is the kind of glib Internet text byte that sounds really smart when you're 25 and is revealed to be total bullshit by the time you hit 40. If you're reading this on Reddit, you are not a medieval warlord. You are a 20-something office drone who has to deal with a couple tedious people who don't like you.
You don't have to "destroy" these people. All you have to do is outperform them. Don't turn your back on them and don't give them your trust, but don't spend a lot of time thinking about them, either.
Just do your work, handle your own shit, and don't leave any weaknesses for them to exploit. Any aggressive attempt to "destroy" your enemies or make other people look bad is 100% certain to backfire in the modern workplace.
Don't be hateful, just be better. Pretend to be stupid and friendly while keeping your eyes open and avoiding mistakes.
Modern workplaces will react to isolate and extinguish any source of drama. Don't be that guy. Just be the quiet, effective guy who gets shit done.
And if your worst "enemy" is just some troll on the Internet, use the block button and get on with your fucking life. On the Internet, as in real life, the first person to openly give a shit loses.
Ignore this bullshit and go read a better book. Like the new Curmudgeon book from Charles Murray.
oldredder 10y ago
There's a lot more world out there than just who you work with.
Even if you work overtime in an office like I do I always mark my way across dark streets with an eye to where nature shows other animals are for what I can't see and always carry a police baton. Always. Any trouble & it's out faster than you can stop me. Soft kevlar slash-resistant jacket too.
Transmigratory 10y ago
The amazing thing about literature is that YOU can interpret it.
You can choose to take "destroy" as literally destroy. Or you can adapt it to a more appropriate form e.g. your outperform interpretation.
notjaffo 10y ago
That is a fair point. My response could be taken as a warning not to take this language too literally.
But I still think it's better to frame these things in terms of making yourself better instead of focusing on "enemies" and "destroying" others.
I worked for many years with a very smart guy who thought this way, constantly identifying "enemies" and trying to play his job like a chess board.
All he did was piss people off and get himself tagged as a troublemaker. Now he's alienated all the major employers in his field and he just lost his 6-figure job.
He was smart enough to get himself hired by all these different places, but he was so obsessed with "playing the game" that he never got any real work done.
Take this shit too literally and they can easily become "The 48 Laws of Unemployment."
Now I'm doing one of the jobs he got fired from, just doing the work and trying to show leadership without being a dick, and I'm happier than I've ever been.
Wasted a lot of years, though. I hope people reading this can be smarter than I was and focus on all the "little things" that sabotaged me when I was younger.
blacwidonsfw 10y ago
Thank you, this is exactly what I though of after reading the post title. "There is no more loyal friend than an ex-enemy". This post is garbage, just grateful this was the top comment.
TheDarkTriad 10y ago
Have you even at least read the book? Seriously...
notjaffo 10y ago
Want to crush your enemies in a modern workplace? Avoid common mistakes.
Here's some tedious advice from an old guy who has fired people and been fired by people for making stupid mistakes.
Don't fall for the "everybody does it" fallacy. I shared an office with a guy who looked like a total goof off. He played video games, surfed the web, and spent more than half his day making personal phone calls. He got away with it, so I thought I could get away with it. I couldn't. There was a double standard at work because this guy had been there for 10 years and was super productive in the 4 hours a day he did work. When it comes time for your performance review, nobody is going to give a fuck what other people get away with. The world is full of double standards like this. Other people can get away with shit that you can't. It's not right. It's not fair. And it's not going to change.
Take your ear buds out. If you're starting your career and not just working a bullshit job, the first step is concentrating on what you're doing. The first step to concentrating is to close Spotify and do your damn work.
Stop surfing Reddit, stop using Facebook, turn off Twitter. The IT department is watching everything you do in the office. The guy sitting behind you is watching everything you do and is snitching to the boss about how lazy you are to make himself look better. Don't leave your weakness exposed. Shut the time wasting shit down and do your work. If there's not enough work, ask for more. If nobody knows what to give you, start looking for more. If you can't think of anything to do, use your dead time to take online training courses. Let the IT Department report THAT to your boss. And if you can't motivate yourself to learn more about your workplace, you're in the wrong job and you need to change careers.
I know what you're thinking. What kind of bullshit is this? Everybody in the office listens to music and spends all day on Facebook. Why should I do all this boring shit while everybody else is slacking off?
Because you're not just trying to be another beta office drone, you're trying to gain status, power and money. Doing good work, ignoring distractions is the price you pay in the office, just like pain, sweat and sore muscles is the price that you pay at the gym.
Stop being an Office Beta and start taking responsibility for your performance.
[deleted] 10y ago
I disagree strongly with this. If there's not enough work, find a persistent problem and fix it. Doing more assigned tasks will not get you ahead, but actively improving the process overall will get you ahead quickly. Make sure you position yourself to take the credit though, as political vultures exist to identify improvements happening and swoop in to get the credit themselves.
TakeYourSoma1 10y ago
>don't be an office beta drone
>don't use all your vacation
Good goy.
If you love what you do then that's fine, but if work is just a means to an end then I think you should feel free to use your vacation time. We get one life on this earth, I think most people would rather not spend all of it sitting in a cube.
eyeteaoddit 10y ago
Though 1 and 3 are great advice, 2 and 4 are more personal preference and work style. I love listening to head phones because it filters people that talk to me to things that are important. I come in when I want every day. If I'm tired in the morning I'll come in later and stay later and tell my boss that for transparrency. As long as you seem like you get your shit done and positively effect those around you, are loyal and honest, no body in a high performing professional environment gives a shit about what music you listen to or what time you come in. As long as you don't miss meetings and get your shit done at a top quality, that is all that matters.
This is from a decent amount of consulting experience at high profile financial, software, tech, manufacturing, etc. companies.
I also notice that at smaller less productive companies where it's an intense and negative atmosphere, they share the same mindset as you in your points 2 and 4.
I really do agree with 1 and 3 though.
notjaffo 10y ago
Each workplace is different, of course. But you'd be surprised how many older execs turn their noses up at kids with earbuds, even if it's common practice around the office.
[deleted] 10y ago
Because all of your example are about being a better servant. It's like saying to get ahead in a relationship, do whatever your gf says, quickly and efficiently.
If the goal or people you work for are of such great quality, then slackers wouldn't be rewarded, timeservers wouldn't be there at all, etc.
The enemy-crushing of office jobs is rather pointless to an outsider though. Like watching The Office, neither funny nor entertaining, just bizzare.
stoicly_whimsical 10y ago
Some of this yes and some no.
Working harder than everyone else doesn't get you ahead.
Just makes you a more efficient drone.
Working hard gets you ahead is one of the biggest fallacies. That slacker that spent his time networking, playing politics and gossiping and back stabbing goes up a rung while you're still working your ass off and getting nowhere.
Music, shove it, gets me more motivated on the job and shifts to the background while working. Bit like music at the gym.
Lateness, I disagree but that's because most bosses are idiots stuck in an outdated system. Studies have shown some people perform better later in the day and through the night, some people the opposite. To then expect night people to be productive in the morning is stupidity.
oldredder 10y ago
Then you need to strive to find a job that fits your body's clock. Mine is overnight but my job isn't but other jobs which are demand much more effort for much less return. I will keep my eyes open. Thankfully since I see very well in the dark perhaps I'll spot something good.
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stoicly_whimsical 10y ago
That's right, I agree 100%. Ultimately no one gives a shit, except very few progressive companies.
I am an extremely heavy sleeper and personally start to get the most productive work done from about lunchtime on. I had a boss that was accommodating of lateness but I more than made up for it with afternoon/night work and call outs so cut me that slack. Which ties in nicely with some people get away with shit.
IllimitableMan 10y ago
If you are speaking from your own experience, I would take from the insinuations in your post that you're an older guy that has never been (or currently is not) in a position of power but has had to struggle through many of the pitfalls of the modern workplace without the freedom to exercise power. You have learnt to be useful and invisible, but that means you make nothing but a great tool for your boss. You won't be the boss because you're too good at surviving, you've learnt to survive, but not to conquer. I never thought I'd be finding myself upvoting a comment which bags on the 48 laws at the end, but there we have it. Although I disagree with the assertion it's a bad book, the rest of your comment was solid. In spite of that, what you say is relevant only to a peon within a workplace setting, it's not correct within all contexts and it is poor advice for a leader or person with power.
For example, if you are a business owner and you have competition, crushing that other business by ruining its reputation or acquiring it and adding it to your own portfolio is wiser/better than "outperforming them." Why have half the market share when you can have all of it? You see, the 48 laws are like anything, not all laws apply to every situation and every person, some laws like this one are better suited to people in high positions of power, other laws like "don't outshine the master" are better suited to people at lower power levels (but apply, to an extent, to people at higher power levels too.) In fact some of the laws contradict each other, try to apply law 1 and law 15 at the same time to the workplace and see how that mindfucks you. What you've done here is say "fuck law 15, use law 1" but because you don't like the book or haven't read it, don't realise that's what you have advised.
Thus it is so that the book is only as useful as one is able to interpret, understand and apply the maxims to their own issues. Do not blame the book, the book is quite intelligent and useful, blame those who know not how to use the knowledge in the book effectively.
48 laws is to a large extent directed at leaders/masters and people who wish to attain those positions. His other book Mastery is about using mentors to speed that process up and even replace people with power through the mentor-apprentice relationship. As a manager or CEO of your workplace for instance you will crush anybody who creates too many problems, as you actually point out yourself here:
Trying to crush people when you're a worker peon, as you say, will make your life harder as you will be on the receiving end of power, rather than the end dealing out punishment.
Context is everything. This law is for people who have the power advantage/resources to necessitate getting away with crushing their enemy. This law is about preserving your power, it is power maintenance, for people without power it is, as you say, a stupid idea to adhere to. Everyone else must do what you have advised, be a wolf in sheep's clothing and blend in. That's law 38, too.
TLDR: If you are in a workplace with no power, law 1 + law 38 guarantee your survival. Ignore Law 15. Do law 38 well enough by mirroring your bosses preferences and you'll get promoted "I see myself in him."
oldredder 10y ago
Then again those with information, leverage & strategy always have some power, sometimes more than an immediate superior (though that indicates incompetence in the level above).
It's best to know how to handle an enemy, not how to choose one. Enemies will show themselves without your need to choose them, then you just handle it. The most powerful weapon is their own vengeance, cowardice & lack of strategy so you can turn their own weapons against them. Anything else after that is either over-kill or you are fucking out-gunned & need to reconsider.
[deleted] 10y ago
Law 15 is very much like police officer training and guns. You should avoid drawing your weapon and firing. It's a measure of last resort. There are so many easier ways to manipulate the situation and get what you want out of it. But onced the call has been made to fire your weapon, you don't shoot to maim, you ensure that your target is completely incapable of any sort of response. You never leave someone half dead.
oldredder 10y ago
Ya... that's not current police officer training. Current training is shoot to kill with no excuse required. Especially if the person is suicidal or needs medication for a mental impairment.
Police are not trained properly unless the goal is to train sociopaths to scare & murder the public.
[deleted] 10y ago
My God, I am amazed by your understanding of the usage of power moves as discussed in the 48 Laws. Although I've just re-read Law 1 earlier, I am now more inspired to re-read the rest in-depth.
IllimitableMan 10y ago
I keep meaning to finish getting around to writing the laws in more detail & depth than given in the book as well as citing examples of the laws in action within a contemporary setting as material for my site. I then want to write a "couple" of "connector articles" which will show the relationships between different laws, which situations to apply them in, which situations to avoid applying them in and etc. Likewise you can categorise the laws in different ways, high power and low power laws being one form of categorisation I have envisioned. There is also a law 49 if you will, "do not be confined to the way of the laws" as people who read the laws tend to think they cannot operate outside the framework set by the laws. There are then the people who are hopeless at manipulation who say "your articles are great in theory but I need exercises/instructional manuals which will allow me to train these ideas directly IN THE FIELD as well as acquire some of the traits which aid in deploying these power moves because your writing is too theoretical for me to apply these ideas." So that's more work for me, dumbing things down and brainstorming ways up non-manipulative people can train themselves a capacity to manipulate/deploy power moves etc.
As you can imagine, this is a huge undertaking and I have other projects on the go, so it keeps being put back. But in time, in due time. It's not like I or my blog are going anywhere.
[deleted] 10y ago
Its awesome stuff, keep on it.
TheSliceman 10y ago
First off, its not a glib Internet text byte. Its a main theme is a very popular best selling book.
Secondly, no its not meant to be applied from a cubicle. The idea was inspired by Machiavelli not for the peasants, but for the kings, courtiers, and generals. If you are a peasant, disregard this advice as it will be worthless.
Cubicle workers are peasants. Business owners are generals and kings. And this is great fucking advice for business owners.
[deleted] 10y ago
As a business owner I can agree. The only way to move forward is to crush my competition ruthlessly, because they are trying to do the same to me. Of course many of us collaborate on opportunities while we bide our time...a real Game of Thrones thing going on.
Also, if you are working in an office and IT is watching your computer, then you don't need to be worrying about enemies, because you're not in a position where they matter. You can never be a king working for someone else. Fuck the office slavery and start your own gig. Plan your financials, get out there, and be the guy firing people who surf Facebook, otherwise this post has no bearing on your puny little life.
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TakeYourSoma1 10y ago
Before I took the pill, i didn't really care for the business owner life. I figured I could live comfortably just doing my current job. I can. But it's not as fulfilling.
Do you have any recommendations on how to come up with a business? Or rather, how to organize one's thoughts? There are a few things I'm passionate about and could or could not form a business around, but I just don't know where to start or how to start thinking about it and critically analyzing my ideas.
[deleted] 10y ago
No worries. Basically, any idea backed by drive and passion can make money, provided it is planned and executed right. Expertise in an area is important, too. For instance, I spent 6 years teaching English in Korea, Japan and Russia, where I was treated lime a celebrity, bedded women who would be 10s here, and drank my liver to shreds. Every time I came home (Canada) I got stuck in some low-paying customer service call center crap run by angry fat feminists. Then I had an idea: mix my passion for overseas teachinh with my knowledge of CSR work and voila! International consultancy tapped in to web 2.0. I now get contracted by companies overseas to train their front line staff how to provide customer service in English. I have trainers who I pay, so I don't do the grunt work myself.
The point is that seemingly mundane experiences and ideas can, when executed properly, provide the life you dream of. The key, and this is BIG, is to just f**kin do it and not only dream about it.
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[deleted] 10y ago
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[deleted] 10y ago
This well-known Conan line is actually a paraphrase of a real statement made by Temujin, aka Genghis Khan , the Mongolian conqueror:
"The greatest pleasure is to vanquish your enemies and chase them before you, to rob them of their wealth and see those dear to them bathed in tears, to ride their horses and clasp to your bosom their wives and daughters."
foldpak111 10y ago
I'd like that quote better if it said their women.
Imperial_Forces 10y ago
Sun Tzu
Crushing your enemy sounds martial, powerful and masculine, however most of the time you are simply not in a position where you can crush your enemy easily. You would have to devote time and ressources to that goal, and still the desired outcome wouldn't be certain, what will be certain though is that if you don't finish him with your first blow he will fight back, which will hurt you (if he hasn't ways to hurt you, he couldn't really be considered an enemy). In these cases the best course of action would be to show him that you are not to be messed with and that it is in his own best interest to avoid confrontation with you.
TheDarkTriad 10y ago
Use of machiavellianism would be helpful in this instance. It can take what seems like forever to reach your end goal of ridding your enemy this way but you should be prepared for that before going into it. Although, like you said it depends on the particular situation.
[deleted] 10y ago
Mr. Tzu obviously never visited post WWI and II America.
Philhelm 10y ago
The difference is that the U.S. was never really at risk during WWI and WWII. WWI was essentially a European war that the U.S. entered during the last year, and our cities and infrastructure weren't harmed. Even during WWII, we only entered mid-war. It was hard fought, but the nation was never at risk. Japan and Germany had zero chance of actually taking the U.S.; the best they could have hoped for was to prevent our military from action (in which case, Japan would have resumed conquest of the Pacific and Germany would be able to focus on the other Allied forced). Also, in both cases it was not exactly prolonged warfare; in WWII we fought for a few years with the goal of total victory.
Compare this to post-WWII U.S., in which we enter mini war after mini war, and run on a guns and butter economy (also note that we weren't on a war footing when WWI and WWII began, but we had the industry to out-produce our opponents). Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan are far more prolonged than WWII; furthermore, we aren't in the business of actually winning wars anymore. We simply are not benefitting from prolonged warfare.
JamesRoscoe 10y ago
The 48 Laws is a great book. It is important to understand that it is contextual in nature. If you have enemies that you find you must crush, you have made several mistakes. The second part of Law #2 works much better here. You must learn how to use enemies. Learn to co-opt them so they help you achieve your goals without warfare. Young men are hot blooded. They do not understand that war is a last resort, not a first one. Why is this JR? Because war is time consuming, war causes delay, but most of all, war is expensive! Going to war with anyone, including your women, is not the way to go. Learn instead to bend them to your will.
Handiesandcandies 10y ago
TRP is obsessed with DT and its unwarranted. Bettering yourself and increasing your SMV doesn't mean you need to be Machiavellian or even agree with Machiavellian-ism. I'm not condoning it, it just needs to be said that they don't completely go hand-in-hand.
TheDarkTriad 10y ago
This is very true. Having DT traits isn't something that's glamorous. That being said it's still good to learn things from books like "The 48 Laws of Power" or "The 33 Strategies of War" or "The Prince" to name a few. Learning the types of things found in books like these can help you in many different aspects of your life, especially your career. It's definitely helped me.
IVIaskerade 10y ago
Here's the thing - in your life, you have to be at least a little machiavellian, because like TRP, you can't choose not to play, so you might as well know the rules.
Do unto others, or they shall do unto you.
TheDarkTriad 10y ago
Sometimes I wish I was a little less Machiavellian. I've done things at the workplace that an average person would say I'm a huge jerk for doing. But these people were in my way and they had to be taken care of accordingly. It was me or them.
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IVIaskerade 10y ago
I get that sometimes, you do what you have to.
But replacing all the coffee with decaf was unforgivable.
TheDarkTriad 10y ago
But I had to. I do need a laugh every now and then you know.
WhiteTrashInTrouble 10y ago
So you hit up that coffee creamer even though you didn't buy it? DT as fuck.
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eyeteaoddit 10y ago
When you can't outperform them then I guess you gotta do what you gotta do...
TheDarkTriad 10y ago
Ouch! That was good backhander. You're missing the point though like most people in this thread. I'm not even going to get into it.
[deleted] 10y ago
What were some of these things?
TheDarkTriad 10y ago
Gotten people fired, transferred to other locations as they were ruining my reputation and preventing me from moving up, manipulated my boss to not give one of our employees a raise when it was time for his review to save on the labor budget, etc etc.
I'm a jerk and I know it. But I'm trying to climb the ladder as fast as possible and if someone's in my way I won't hesitate to knock them down. And no, I don't work in an office environment like everyone is assuming.
Don't believe me? Don't care.
Verlier 10y ago
If you are not a machiavellian, someone else will, and you will meet him.
Philhelm 10y ago
Just don't try this on a bona fide psychopath, or someone so harmed that they have noting to lose. Your definition of "crush" is probably far removed from his definition of the word.
I just try to mind my own business in life, but obsess over unjust acts committed against me, even if petty (although I have few enemies and am usually well-liked). I'm not sure how I would psychologically manage if someone were to truly "crush" me. I don't think I could bear living in such a world. Smug fuckers won't be so smug once they are broken, on their knees begging for mercy (there will be none), and with the knowledge that their genetic line is broken.
TheDarkTriad 10y ago
You're taking the post too literally.
oldredder 10y ago
Not really. I've met those sociopaths and had to really, really crush them using all available resources up to & including threat of a machete. Now I'm clever so the rigging is the guy robbed someone who has a machete and because that robbery incurred a debt, a fair repayment is a hand. So, the fucker runs. Thankfully the item itself wasn't expensive so I replaced it & we were rid of the sociopath in our social circle.
Not that there wasn't a machete - I saw it and it was rusty. Nassssty.
Philhelm 10y ago
My point was that people should be careful about how cavalier they are when it comes to Machiavellianism, since some people might not take it on the chin and go postal.
TheDarkTriad 10y ago
That's definitely true. I feel like if someone did go that far then he/she has much way deeper problems. Machiavellianism isn't about killing everyone in your way. If someone had that view on Machiavellianism then their view on it is completely misconstrued.
RedPillSafe 10y ago
Recognizing the enemy is the first step.
If you sense that another is Alpha then you WANT them as a trusted friend in your Wolfpack.
If you know the other is beta they will be your enemy because they will always feel a need to compensate for their own insecurities. (insecurity is a bottomless pit)
The beta punk is the kid that goes home and gets a gun and comes back at you because his sense of entitlement was challenged.
It's best to not take the risk of knowing insecure betas... even if it means monk mode for you.
Direct confrontation is the last and worst option.
[deleted] 10y ago
Actually alphas are the more combative and competitive type. Betas are the ones who want to make friends with everyone else. High testosterone makes one competitive and combative. Alphas have the highest testosterone.
oldredder 10y ago
what?
Betas follow alphas out of necessity & fear, alphas don't follow other alphas - they are competing pack leaders.
[deleted] 10y ago
Have you ever killed anybody?
TheDarkTriad 10y ago
Haha. No, but that's not what was meant by this post. For example say you have someone at work ruining your reputation and therefore making it harder for you to achieve your career goals. You should get rid of him (get him fired, transferred to another department, etc) before he ends up doing the same to you.
vengefully_yours 10y ago
I was known for that in the military. I would make it seem like they won, goad them into going much farther than they should have. Ended up fuck with me and get kicked out or forced to retire early.
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[deleted] 10y ago
Seems like the bigger problem, when out of context
eyeteaoddit 10y ago
Known for whining anytime something bad happens to him, and creating a tantrum shitstorm that gets people fired.
Jesus Christ what a blue pill comment.
vengefully_yours 10y ago
Had some who felt the need to fuck with me, mostly religious types. Ok, all who fucked with me were religious types, and they justified it to themselves because I wasn't their flavor of delusional. There is also the issue with my size, and how I intimidated people, but mostly it was religious bullshit.
[deleted] 10y ago
Related, and recommended reading: Nothing Less than Victory: Decisive Wars and the Lessons of History, by John David Lewis
creekcanary 10y ago
I like the idea, and I like that book a lot, but it's important to be circumspect in defining what is and is not an "enemy". Once that determination is made, yes, you have to keep going til the end. But advice like this should always be tempered by a healthy dose of Machiavellianism.
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monsieurhire2 10y ago
What about seeing the enemies driven before you, and then hearing the lamentations of their women? If you crush them totally, you can't see them driven before you . . . .
[deleted] 10y ago
While I agree that removing poisonous people from your life is good, DT is one of the few things on this sub that I find very bizarre and frankly, disconcerting. It's one thing to be confident, stand up for yourself, and even put somebody in his place when necessary, but idolizing pathology is taking it to a dangerous and unnecessary level.
DT traits are about succeeding by pushing your competition down. Given that the average for any human behavior is so low, it's really not that hard to be successful in a pursuit without resorting to DT. There are alternate ways of achieving the same goals without DT. Set goals, work/study hard, impress the right people by your quality, etc. This isn't DT, this is just being smart and doing the right thing. Importantly, resorting to DT reveals that the person has deep-seated insecurity. Anybody who isn't afraid of a little competition doesn't feel the need to resort to DT.
Gloamgeist 10y ago
There's nothing wrong with machiavellianism or the trappings of narcissism, basically the things about narcissists that make them appealing to other people.
There is something VERY wrong with psychopathy and even wanting or recommending to adopt psychopathic traits is suspect in the extreme.
Greene's books should be taken in the whole and not dissected part by part. There is all manner of great stuff in there that doesn't involve having your enemies impaled. This tip is useful though in that if you have no choice but to fight you had better completely remove your enemy's ability to harm you. Forever.
Also I think you're a little bit naive, no offense intended. There are numerous fields of endeavor that are completely filled with backstabbers, narcissists, sociopaths and outright criminals. One of these is Wall Street. Another is politics. If you think you're going to do well there just by being a Good Dude you're just wrong about that, in those lines of work people actually look for DT traits in people they hire.
[deleted] 10y ago
Good response, no offense taken. Thanks for the clarification on the book meant to be taken as a whole and the context you provided. As a med student having studied personality disorders (and seen people with them), the language in the original post raised red flags. Within context it is much more appropriate.
I fully agree with you on psychopathy and the trappings of narcissism, and largely agree with you about machiavellianism although I think in extreme cases the lines between it and psychopathy get blurred. I would be a huge hypocrite if I claimed not to have a healthy amount of narcissism and machiavellianism (healthy because being confident and protecting oneself are good).
I can see how I came off as naive. I also fully agree with you that certain professions are filled with the types of people you described and how DT would help them in those professions (I also think almost all people in those professions are legitimate psychopaths and should be in mental hospitals, just my 2 cents). I would lump many lawyers in there as well. To clarify, my post was meant more as a generality. I don't think that DT is required for many if not most professions. It may help sometimes, but I think it can be done legitimately as well.
Thanks for the great response.
As a side note: I think these kinds of posts should have a little more clarification of context and use slightly less inflammatory language. Many people (especially younger members) may easily get the wrong impression with DT type stuff, which can be dangerous to themselves and, by extension, others. I can easily imagine an angry 18 y/o reading something like OP and then doing something really, really stupid. The point of this sub is to help men improve themselves and understand reality, not to turn them into sociopaths or criminals. This kind of material is very insightful, but it should really be given in a way that takes appropriate consideration of the weight it actually carries.
tenpointsix 10y ago
How is this relevant to male sexual strategy? Please expand.
[deleted] 10y ago
Whoa buddy. If you think TRP is only about sexual strategy, you need to re-read the side bar.
[deleted]
TheDarkTriad 10y ago
Was going to be almost exactly my response.