The value of serial monogamy; A critique of TRP neuroticism towards LTRs | TheRedPill

Durek_The_Bald

Posted 7mo ago in LTR - Permalink - Locked - 2.1K Views

Introduction:

Almost like clock-work, anytime a dude comes in here with the question: "Should I LTR this chick?", the answers are pretty much already given:

"No, you're too young. You shouldn't really be getting into LTRs before you're in your 30's."

"Wait until you've reached your SMV peak, and then you can do better!"

"She's got tattoos, you said? Naw, fuck that. She's for the streets."

"No. Because when you were spinning her as one of your plates, she made out with one of her orbiters. Red flag!"

It seems to always be some variation of either "X, Y, and Z is wrong with her", "X, Y, and Z is wrong with you", or "you're not ready to understand what you're getting yourself into". It's like the stars need to bloody align (much like with a lot of married chicks when it comes to sex with their husbands, but I digress). Basically, we tend to treat LTRs as some kind of end-of-the-line prison sentence you can't get out of, or some looming disaster on the horizon in the event it doesn't work out.

It's not that any of these assessments necessarily are wrong. No, they're probably quite accurate, and are examples of critical thinking well worth having in the back of your mind. However, there's a point where critical thinking becomes a neurosis - as if learning through failure and mistakes automatically would spell impending doom. Plate spinning, one-night-stands, friends-with-benefits, it's all well and good. But you also gotta ask yourself: "What am I actually training myself for?"

A base assumption:

The vast majority of guys, even in the redpillosphere, want "meaningful" relationships to women at some point. It might not be marriage - probably not - but guys want some form of lasting rapport with a member of the opposite sex; to ditch all their plates, and just be with one woman in some form of twosome-like arrangement.

If that weren't the case, we wouldn't even be talking about "vetting strategies". "Red flags" wouldn't be that big of a deal (beyond just "no crazy bitches"). And when guys eventually came to the conclusion that the dating market is fecked, that there aren't enough quality women out there, and that the juice isn't worth the squeeze, that conclusion wouldn't be one they came to so begrudgingly. No, they'd pop a bottle of champagne, secure in the knowledge that they were right all along, before skipping and hopping through life, hardly ever uttering a word about "those fecking whamen".

But alas, it is not the case.

This all tells a story about what men really want, which is "meaningful relationships to women" in some form or another. Now, you may read this, and think to yourself: "Naw, I don't want that". And you might be sincere in that, but that makes you an outlier. More probable than not, you are shitting yourself. So to you I say: It's alright to want that. It's completely normal, and doesn't make you "blue pill", or a "beta chump". Well, you might be those things, but it's not going to be for this reason alone.

The value of serial monogamy:

With the base assumption in mind, let's now return to the question: "What are you actually training yourself for?". That's right, all this plate spinning business, ONSs, FWB arrangements, they don't really train you for what you eventually probably want. If all you do is to spin plates throughout your 20's and early 30's, and then get "serious" with someone at 35, you're probably going to be in for a lot of surprises.

The redpillosphere is full of guys who did just that, only for it to become a bloody existential crisis when the one woman they went "serious" for dumps them, or don't wanna fuck them anymore. And the reason for that isn't that the woman was so special compared to all others. No, the reason is that the arrangement was so special compared to all other arrangements.

One of the most valuable lessons from being a serial monogamist, having a string of serious and semi-serious relationships come and go, is that it teaches you that it's not a big fucking deal. Ok, so you get your balls shat on, your heart broken, you failed to maintain frame, and you end up feeling like dog shit for a while. But it's all good, it's all character building. There's learning in that, and you're supposed to go through it - not just once, several times. Or the other way around: You're supposed to dump women it was fucking hard for you to dump. And through experience, you learn the proper way to dump someone without creating a vindictive enemy.

There's all sorts of learning in it, and what's more: It's the kind of learning that actually prepares you for what you eventually want (base assumption again). Unlike with plate-spinning, ONSs and FWBs, you learn to open yourself up for real emotional hurt, to have that hurt rammed through your chest, and to learn from experience that you'll come out of it on the other side just fine. Eventually, you look back, and you'll be glad you didn't end up with any one of all your past LTR's.

You don't want this kind of learning experience to be your first, when you're 35, and ready to "get serious" with someone, and possibly even starting a family. No, you should've had plenty of them by that time. And if you do, then hopefully what you'll be left with is this:

An LTR is not a big fucking deal.

End-notes:

So to you, the next guy that comes in here, asking if you should LTR some chick, I say: Yeah, you should. It'll be a valuable experience for you. The fact that you even ask, means that it's what you wanna do. So do what you wanna do. Just don't knock anyone up, and don't get entangled into some form of shitty contract, and you're all good.

You're probably not ready for it. She's probably not ready for it either. In fact, she's probably a piece of shit, and so are you. It's probably not going to work out. But you should still do it, and take away from it anything you can.

And one more thing: I'm not suggesting this as opposed to plate spinning and all that other stuff. But I am saying that you should do LTRs as well. You should learn to have frame even when you're emotionally invested. You should learn to dump someone even when it's fucking hard. And you should learn to get dumped even when it crushes your soul.

Comments and critique welcome.

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financehardo420 7mo ago

This was the post I needed to see. Describes a lot of my shit to a T.

Gonna start trying this serial monogamy out for a bit.

woodsmoke 7mo ago

Good shit.

It bears pointing out many/most of the TRP luminaries, if you want to call them that, are themselves in committed monogamous relationships. Rollo, Ryan Stone, Athol Kay, Aaron Clarey, a bunch of others whose names I can't remember at the moment - all settled in reasonably securely with a woman who has their backs.

Of course that could change, those who are married could be taken to the cleaners, those who aren't could still have their lives upended. We all know the drill. Point being, the men whose writings young men read to get a handle on all this shit are living some approximation of the life many/most of those young men desire and which motivates them to study the subject in the first place. If that ain't sufficient evidence there's nothing wrong with desiring and pursuing a meaningful long-term relationship with an individual woman, I don't know what is.

Goingthedistance 7mo ago

You don't want this kind of learning experience to be your first, when you're 35, and ready to "get serious" with someone, and possibly even starting a family. No, you should've had plenty of them by that time.

And what if you had none of that, no plates and no LTRs either? Are later bloomers just fucked?

The heck do guys like me do now? If I get into an LTR somehow, I get rekt emotionally and that's my first experience, if I get into plate spinning, I have zero emotional experience and I'll get rekt as well.

Durek_The_Bald 7mo ago

Are later bloomers just fucked?

How late are we talking?

If I get into an LTR somehow, I get rekt emotionally and that's my first experience

It's pretty much everyone's first experience. Like a rite of passage!

Goingthedistance 7mo ago

How late are we talking?

I'm pretty much 28 now and have only slept with a few pro's but no LTR or plates or ONS. I've made the mistake of focusing on work and helping my folks out instead of having some fun and socialize.

Durek_The_Bald 7mo ago

I'm pretty much 28 now and have only slept with a few pro's but no LTR or plates or ONS

Not gonna lie. That's fairly brutal. Why do you think that is? What parts of you and your life can you improve? Do you lift? Are you fit? Do you have a social circle? Are you doing anything with your life (doesn't have to be anything spectacular)?

Goingthedistance 7mo ago

Why do you think that is?

What? That I did not get any action?

TL:DR I got bullied in HS pretty much on a daily basis, got called a piece of ugly S and got my ass beat constantly. The irony here is that in HS I had a girl that was begging me to be her boyfriend and fuck her, but I was too broken to get into a relationship, not only I believed that I was an ugly piece of S but I believed that if she got to be my gf she'd get bullied too and possibly worse, so I let that chance slip by.

After HS I started university but the only improvement I got there was that I got a tight social circle and started to piece together my self-esteem. Did not get laid in university. But I did start my side business year one of uni and I've worked in that since then. While others were partying at the dorms I was at home doing the graveyard shift.

I've started lifting at 26 when the pandemic hit, and I've been lifting daily since then, used Starting Strength 5x5 for the first 3 months then moved to PPL and never looked back. Dropped sugar, all types of alcohol and I never smoked to begin with. I can bench press and squat above my body weight, dead-lift double my body-weight and have a height of around 5"10-5"11 but any decent boot makes me 6ft.

As for what I did to improve, made lots of new acquaintances because I bought a motorcycle last month. I'm going out with it almost daily and I've already noticed that a lot of people in the city already know me by name.

I did my first cold approach last month too, it was a positive reply from her but it never went anywhere, I did it in the gym no less in front of all the fuckboys too.

As for doing anything with my life?

Lifting, trying to make more acquaintances, motorcycle, main business and side gig now getting better, hoping to travel across the ocean next year and visit at least 5 countries more. I want to have my own family one day which means kids and a wife, but I hope to get that in my late 30's if not when i hit the big 40. One of my low key goals is to visit at least 10 countries, race my motorcycle in those 10 countries and fuck at least 3 girls in each country.

Durek_The_Bald 7mo ago

I got bullied in HS pretty much on a daily basis, got called a piece of ugly S and got my ass beat constantly.

That's going to leave a mark. Self esteem issues etc. It's likely your troubles with women boil down to mental issues. Non-assertiveness, non-playfulness, things that have to do with insecurity issues.

The irony here is that in HS I had a girl that was begging me to be her boyfriend and fuck her, but I was too broken to get into a relationship, not only I believed that I was an ugly piece of S but I believed that if she got to be my gf she'd get bullied too and possibly worse, so I let that chance slip by.

Well, if even one girl was interested in you in high school, at least it probably means you aren't a genetic freak. Rather than just seeing it as an opportunity missed, maybe you should see it as saying something about you.

After HS I started university but the only improvement I got there was that I got a tight social circle and started to piece together my self-esteem. Did not get laid in university. But I did start my side business year one of uni and I've worked in that since then. While others were partying at the dorms I was at home doing the graveyard shift

Pretty decent that. Social circle, upping your self-esteem a bit, getting a side hustle going. These are not small things. You probably missed out on more opportunities with women by working so much.

I've started lifting at 26 when the pandemic hit, and I've been lifting daily since then, used Starting Strength 5x5 for the first 3 months then moved to PPL and never looked back. Dropped sugar, all types of alcohol and I never smoked to begin with. I can bench press and squat above my body weight, dead-lift double my body-weight and have a height of around 5"10-5"11 but any decent boot makes me 6ft.

Damn, bro. That's impressive. You've been going at it. Nobody can accuse you of not having done the work. I wouldn't worry about the height. "6ft" is just an arbitrary number. 5"10-5"11 is more than enough. Women suck at gauging height anyways.

The "6ft" thing is just a shit test. Women throw stupid shit like that out into the ether all the time. It's designed to keep mentally weak men away, men who listen to what they say.

I did my first cold approach last month too, it was a positive reply from her but it never went anywhere, I did it in the gym no less in front of all the fuckboys too.

Ballsy!

Dude, you're doing great. You're definitely not representative of the average guy who hasn't gotten any at 28.

Just keep putting yourself out there, and you'll be getting laid left and right, go through a few girlfriends here and there, in no time. Just take your time, 40's is a fine age for starting a family. Meanwhile, just build up all sorts of experiences.

Definitely not a hopeless case, not even close. Good job, man, and welcome onboard. Damn, that was a good read.

Just don't be too picky. Give the average girls a shot too. Be charitable with your cock, and you're all good.

Oh, and give the pros a rest. Don't let them become a crutch stopping you from approaching. And don't tell the women, a man's gotta have some secrets.

Goingthedistance 7mo ago

Non-assertiveness, non-playfulness, things that have to do with insecurity issues.

I couldn't have said it better myself, I am lacking all those things. Especially playfulness, as I am used to taking everything seriously.

Well, if even one girl was interested in you in high school.

The one that wanted me the most, was an hb6.5-7 on a good day, and at least another two. One that was a whale and another that I loosely knew but she kept bumping into me and waving at me while laughing like a moron. But I was too damaged mentally back then to see the signs or even if I saw them, I was too afraid to make a move in case I'd get even worse of a beating.

Damn, bro. That's impressive. You've been going at it. Nobody can accuse you of not having done the work.

Really? I always thought that it was average progress at best since my diet was not on point. Btw, I am now 163lbs and plan to get down to 154lbs. I hope that at 154 I'll get down to 15% body fat and thus have abs. Even though my jawline is already popping and the upper abs are highlighted.

Dude, you're doing great. You're definitely not representative of the average guy who hasn't gotten any at 28. Definitely not a hopeless case, not even close. Good job, man, and welcome onboard. Damn, that was a good read.

Thanks for this, it means a lot to me! But what am I a representative of I wonder.

Oh, and give the pros a rest

I haven't overused them, in fact I've only done it three times in my life and I make it a point to do it once every few months, so it's not something I'm doing on a regular basis. I use them as practice to get better in that area and to not be nervous if things get steamy.

While many chicks have the main character syndrome. I have what I like to call the "villain syndrome" when it's impossible to see myself as not only a good man but a worthy man of women, friends and a good life. I'm not afraid of being humiliated by girls as nobody can hurt me the way I hurt myself(mentally), nobody can judge my life the way i do it.

coolsocks00 1 7mo ago

If I get into an LTR somehow, I get rekt emotionally and that's my first experience, if I get into plate spinning, I have zero emotional experience and I'll get rekt as well

Ha. Luckily it's not this simple. Either of these two things happening - casual sex or an exclusive relationship - is first and foremost gonna be an exhilarating experience most likely.

Not only that, but being TRP aware with the thorough understanding that women can be fickle, you're miles ahead of even most men period, when it comes to relationships and not getting burned, bitter and "left on the losing side" so to speak.

Goingthedistance 7mo ago

you're miles ahead of even most men period, when it comes to relationships and not getting burned

Not sure how that is the case when I have zero experience with LTRs, ONS or plates. While some guys started getting laid at 15 years old and never stopped. Those guys have at least 10 years of experience ahead of me even if they are blue pilled AF.

coolsocks00 1 7mo ago

My point is that the average bloop is going to be stuck at the first base of understanding his entire life. His experience is mostly limited to his own first hand experience.

Having read the sidebar, the top reddit posts, along with most of the recommended books, you'll have so much second hand experience to draw from, that you'll see things for what they are at first glance.

Life is not easy either way. Be happy you're young and not 46 with a fresh divorce and young kids with a harpy for a mother. Do your due diligence and enjoy hitting your stride from now on.

Goingthedistance 7mo ago

It's hard to see yourself as young and just hitting your stride at 28, especially nowadays when I'm supposed have life figured out. I'm trying to.

coolsocks00 1 7mo ago

Women may seem complicated, but dealing with them really doesnt have to be.

Now women assume i was some Chad figure in my past, which couldnt be further from the truth. I struggled with much the same things you mention here at one point. I.e. your past doesnt matter.

Goingthedistance 7mo ago

I see, and what changed with you?

Women may seem complicated, but dealing with them really doesn't have to be.

It really feels like you're tapped out of some game that everyone understands. But I've been reading RP stuff and trying to implement it.

Intrepid_Place53900 7mo ago

Get rid of the fear.

she's just a girl, your life won't end. (don't get her pregnant)

girls are just something that should add some value to your life, that's all

Goingthedistance 7mo ago

What fear?

Intrepid_Place53900 7mo ago

your response earlier to Durek

It read as fear.

your later posts, you seem as mentioned to be a late bloomer. Keep doing what you are doing from what I've read.

I'd socialize, but do so , where finding a girl , doesn't matter. When you have a DNGAF attitude, it attracts women, they can smell it.

I'm sure you've read that before, IME it's true.

Goingthedistance 7mo ago

I see. Well, I understand your point but getting the DNGAF attitude is not easy when you never had it.

Intrepid_Place53900 7mo ago

yup, never said it was easy.

And don't confuse it. A DNGAF attitude is a guy who's social, having fun, talking to girls, but doesn't care about the result. And she gets that vibe from you that you don't care if you hook up,etc.

Some guys take it too far, like they ignore her or are not being social.

Goingthedistance 7mo ago

Calibrating to that attitude is the issue on my part. As I do care too much.

Intrepid_Place53900 7mo ago

It's good you recognize it.

Women can read that, the more you that you don't care about results, the more they'll be attracted to you.

Confidence in that you don't care about results, not needy,etc

you give the Impression that you are above her

Most girls find that attractive

Goingthedistance 7mo ago

I recognize it for sure, I used to be a Nice Guy™, now I am no longer a Nice Guy™, but I am still a nice guy that cares. I care about people I care about their feelings but the hardest of them all for me is to care about myself. This can be best described best in a sentence that someone told me a few months ago. "Goingthedistance, if you'd start treating yourself the way you treat others, you will start to be happy".

Perhaps I will find a way to snap out of this and become the man I am supposed to be.

Intrepid_Place53900 7mo ago

Good post, agree with much.

For guys who don't want a LTR and just want plates, then just do that.

I think most guys at some point in their 20's reach a point where they want more, the trouble today is finding a girl worthy of even trying it with. I feel for you young guys.

So, I agree with Durek, if you have a girl who seems interesting, give it a shot, with the expectation it will last a week. Put some verbal expectations out to her, and to yourself, and when those become issues, walk. No second chance or whatever.

Don't share purchases, don't co-mingle money, sign up for leases, etc. Make it easy to walk away.

I think getting experience in LTR's is needed, but when I mean LTR, I mean, it can be REAL short.

If it's even for the experience of getting better at vetting, actually seeing a girl who "faked" her personality,etc. Actually seeing it, is worth a 100 guys telling you about it. It will jade you, which is good, most of us need to see that , it helps break the oneitis, the blue pill disney fantasy.

I'm old, have kids, divorced years ago.

Met a lot of girls , they weren't worth 2nd or 3rd dates.

Finally met one who had some value. Guess what , she's got some red flags.

I vetted her, finally got to the point where I gave in to the "LTR", I had full expectation it would last a week. that was 5 years ago.

Note: I'm still expecting it to last a week more

AbusiveFather1 7mo ago

Note: I'm still expecting it to last a week more

lmao, good man

Intrepid_Place53900 7mo ago

yup, I was real honest with her about her flags, which she fully understands. But those flags were not present with me, but you have to be aware of the past of course.

so, told her, I'll give this a shot, I expect it to last a week. I'm gonna be real tough on you.

Her response was, I want this, I'm not going to fuck up.

INGL It's been a real good 5 years. But, I don't believe in happily ever after. If she fucks up, I'm out. Our finances are completely separated. So it will be fairly easy if it comes to that.

Diabs 7mo ago

Always enjoy your posts durek from another guy in an ltr. People just don't wanna take a risk there is always a risk no matter how much you vet and no perfect girls sometimes you gotta listen to your heart not the people on this forum and you will survive if it all falls to shit and you get hurt. It's just life.