As a subscriber to Roosh's website, I get his frequent email updates, which are actually quite useful more often than not. Today's email I found especially interesting, so I thought I'd post it here:
I'm going to skip the whole moral argument that you shouldn't hit on a girl who has a boyfriend. I have the belief that if the boyfriend is doing a good job then the girl will be un-gameable, but each case is different and it's best to go with the flow.
For example, imagine you're making out with a girl in the club and then she says, "God I feel so guilty but I actually have, umm, a boyfriend." Should you stop and simply say goodbye? I say no because she might be unhappy with the boyfriend and looking for a replacement, but the bottom line is do what you feel most comfortable with.
Now don't even bother with NEWLY engaged or married girls. I think you'll have better chances with a nun than a girl who just made a fresh commitment with another man. It takes at least a few months for that moment to wear off.
That leaves two other types of girls with boyfriends: those who are unhappy and those who are neither unhappy nor quite ecstatic either. The best way to find out what type of girl you are dealing with is the length of time it takes until she drops the boyfriend in conversation.
The longer amount of time until she drops the bomb, the better. It's even better if she doesn't mention the boyfriend at all and you learn from a third party.
Now let's think about that for a second. If a girl is happy with her man he will keep popping up in her head, leading to a large amount of guilt when talking to a new guy she may be attracted to. She will attempt to relieve this guilt by mentioning him as much as possible in the conversation.
Therefore the sooner she mentions him and the more times she mentions him, the less likely you'll get anywhere. This fact should be your guide to see if you should commit to gaming a girl with a boyfriend, especially since they take more work than a single girl.
On the other hand if it takes a girl over 20 minutes to drop the boyfriend, consider her breakable. Now combine that with her engaging you, making eye contact, asking your questions, and touching you. The more she does any of these things, the less of an issue the boyfriend is and more you can proceed as you normally do.
It takes a little experience to tell between the girls who flirt just to feel attractive and girls who want to get banged by a new dick, but you'll know for sure when you go for the number or kiss. The former will put up Great Wall of China resistance and the later will only offer token resistance that you're already familiar with.
If the approach is going well and things are progressing past the thirty minute mark, just keep doing what you're doing and go for the kiss on the same night. When you get in close she will make a verbal objection, maybe mentioning the boyfriend, but just like you would do if she was resisting in the bedroom, simply agree with her so she doesn't think about it further.
Don't make it a tug of war, but definitely try again a few minutes later as an attempt to break down the resistance. If she says she can't do anything with you just smile and say you weren't trying to do anything with her anyway. But keep pushing until you get it.
For girls that seem to be breakable but not easy, the only way to do it is through regular access. If you work with her or see her weekly, then these repeated encounters will nibble at her resistance until she just goes through with it. But if you meet her one night in the club and just get her number before saying goodbye then the seduction is over because she won't allow herself to see you again without feeling like a cheat.
Look, if a girl puts herself in a position to cheat, she will cheat, and you'd be foolish to pass on it for some other guy to smash it. I found this all out the hard way years ago when I believed the best way to get a girl with a boyfriend was to first be her "friend." I fondly remember all those wasted nights talking with these girls on the phone about the problems she was going through, with no bang to show for it in the end. It was an embarrassing period of my life but I think about it every now and then so I don't get complacent with my game today.
It wasn't until my first success with an engaged girl at work that I learned how having access is critical to getting with desirable girls who were already taken. If your game is tight, she will eventually make it all too easy for things to progress.
But before I was banging girls with boyfriends, I first learned how to pick up single girls in bars, clubs, coffee shops, and the street, after hundreds and hundreds of approaches. The result of all this experience is my book Bang, which features a reliable system that is flexible enough for you to inject your own style so you don't turn into a "social robot."

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bradyo2 11y ago
I think you're misinterpreting it, it's just strong arguments from both sides. I would have actually claimed the opposite was true, and that there's a lot of hate for people who do
You need to understand that by saying this, it doesn't mean I'm actively going to seek out women in a relationship/married (although I'd probably call the line at marriage myself, but each to their own), I'm just saying that a girl saying "I have a boyfriend" isn't going to make me turn around and say "ok, you should probably go home and spend some time with him".
TRP takes a very individualistic viewpoint on life, in that it teaches these guys who've been walked over their whole life to stand up for themselves, be selfish and do what they want to do. I want to sleep with X, and unless she's really, really vehemently against it cause she's got a boyfriend - that fact isn't going to stop me.
I understand where you're coming from, but it's just not my problem.
[deleted] 11y ago
Whatever happened to having honour? It is not honourable to fuck another guy's woman. I thought RP men held honour as a high value?
machimus 11y ago
My basic rule of thumb is, I initially talk to all girls about the same, boyfriend or not. If the girl is single, game on. If the girl says she has a boyfriend but is behaving single, then the relationship isn't a relationship or is so fucked up that it might as well be over.
If the girl acts legitimately like she has a boyfriend and isn't interested, I'll back off or friend-zone her. Married of course is right out.
There are too many fish in the sea to be poaching from other dudes, if you can help it. Unless he's driven her away from being an asshole or gross negligence or total incompetence, just respect the relationship and move on. If Game is as infallible and girls are as predictable as people say, you can steal ANY girl away from ANY guy, so just leave it.
[deleted] 11y ago
Women spin plates too.
Marrieds are definitely off-limits (too much collateral damage and ther is the 'morals' thing).
Boyfriend? 'Seeing someone'? Pfft.
variableLt 11y ago
There are no morals, since she is the one that has to be held accountable for her actions, not you. Unless you are raping her, everything that happens is on her.
Besides, getting a married one is cool, since she is invested more than you and usually has more to lose. There are some freaks running around as well, so you have to be a bit more careful.
cascadecombo 11y ago
That really is only your point of view, albeit, I'm not partial to doing that as well. But sometimes you only find out afterwards.
bradyo2 11y ago
'Seeing someone' is the biggest load of BS ever. You're either in a relationship or not. Saying your 'seeing someone' only has use as plausible deniability. There is no inbetween.
I_will_eat_your_life 11y ago
I think "seeing somebody" just means that your dating them. You've just met and you like them but it's not serious yet so you're just seeing (dating) them, with the possibility of something more serious. In the US we just say dating but a lot of my English friends use "seeing them".
bradyo2 11y ago
So they're a plate!
I_will_eat_your_life 11y ago
I think a plate would just be a casual thing, somebody you want to have sex with, and somebody you're "seeing" as a potential LTR.
eccentricrealist 11y ago
I blew it last summer with this. I was in Germany with a study group and there was this girl with a bf, who I flirted with at first until I learned she had her boyfriend. The last day she dragged me to her room at 1 a.m. and all I did was fucking cuddle with her when I could've easily pumped n' dumped. Of course, a month later she broke up. If she's going to cheat on someone with you and you won't go for it, she'll go ahead and do it with someone else. Proceed depending on how well you know the guy, if at all.
bradyo2 11y ago
Exactly. I always say this, but my favourite RP quote is "it's like tossing a grenade into a cancer ward" it's over anyway, you may as well be the one to end it.
A-Red-Six 11y ago
http://i.imgur.com/BcGMTAg.gif
Invalidity 11y ago
Girls with boyfriends are magnitudes easier to game than single girls. The statistics are skewed of course as most girls aren't single to begin with, but a lot of those girls in relationships are only momentarily satisfied with their boyfriends. A lot of guys who understand relationship dynamics tend to spin plates and are usually never committed to one woman.
The guys who are more interested in pursuing a relationship have a lot of beta tendencies in them and are likely to supplicate to their girlfriends, thereby losing the attraction and interest of their girlfriends. A more desirable piece of meat comes along, of course she's gonna try to grab it.
bradyo2 11y ago
I'd actually argue that they purposefully intend to flirt more than single girls. They have the plausible deniability aspect of "oh it's ok, I'm not a sloot cause I have a boyfriend".
There's been 4 or 5 times that I've been actively hit on since I joined university, by girls who had boyfriends, even when I literally did nothing. They came up to me. I know this sounds like I'm exaggerating, but I swear I literally had to pull 2 girls off me who were trying to get with me. One was where I was too pussy to make a move and her boyfriend was a good friend, the other I was trying to get with her fitter mate. (Turned out she had a boyfriend too, and she wasn't interested so shot myself in the foot haha).
It's almost like a challenge to them: "let's see how close I can get to cheating, without actually cheating". Sometimes they just go too far...
Uedukai 11y ago
One simple reason being that women get tired of the same guy, and the same dick. Plain and simple. Being equivalent to their current boyfriend is tempting enough, but if you're a bit (or a lot) better, then it's all easy street my friends.
Invalidity 11y ago
Absolutely. When you have that many options, and likely better ones, you're gonna want a taste of something else.
Plenty of guys can stay attracted to their current partners for extended periods of time, if not indefinitely, because they don't see alternatives.
Uedukai 11y ago
Yeah, that and not knowing how to obtain alternatives in the first place.
"I'm so lucky to have you!" They'll say. Top kek.
[deleted] 11y ago
I'd be better off going for a girl that doesn't have one.
bradyo2 11y ago
Care to elaborate?
[deleted] 11y ago
No.
cascadecombo 11y ago
Sure it would be, but that doesn't mean you have to walk away when it's already fairly obvious you can play with her.
[deleted] 11y ago
Says you.
cascadecombo 11y ago
I speak from experience, as well as the experience of friends.
If you have some moral concept binding you from doing that, it's on you. But you may never actually know, or won't know until after the fact.
[deleted] 11y ago
Fair enough.
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thesaltysoup 11y ago
Where do you live, Saudi Arabia?
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bradyo2 11y ago
Oh, I'm working on the basis that it's highly unlikely you'll get found out. If you're worried about being identified, use a fake name for the night or something. Unless they're a friend of yours you're pretty safe.
Uedukai 11y ago
Worried about being identified? Seriously? C'mon TRP, this is pathetic. Her boyfriend isn't YOUR boyfriend. If he's harassing you, then it'll turn into a lawsuit (in your favor I might add).
[deleted] 11y ago
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bradyo2 11y ago
Heh. I live a taxi ride from any place where id go to meet girls anyway, she probably wouldn't even be able to remember what the place looked like if she was drinking either. Each to their own.
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cascadecombo 11y ago
Drunk isn't drugged.
If someones been drinking, having fun, and you're in a taxi somewhere she'll be to busy with you to realized where they are going. It's a common knowledge fact.
Now stop tryin to accuse people of that shit, get off your high horse dude.
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cascadecombo 11y ago
Who ever said memory loss?
I said she is tipsy/drunk and you are entertaining her in the cab so why would she care where you are going? or where it is turning? Honestly if a chick is focusing on where you are going while in a cab you probably wont be getting laid when you get back.
bradyo2 11y ago
Err? More the 'drunk girls are easier to sleep with than sober ones' type of guy
[deleted] 11y ago
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bradyo2 11y ago
What's your problem? Have you never met a slightly drunk girl before?
[deleted] 11y ago
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bradyo2 11y ago
So you're telling me, even when you're sober as a rock, you can tell me the exact address and take me to that place of every single place you go? Seriously man, chill out.
You turned this from basic geography skills to date rape.
rpkarma 11y ago
For some people, they don't even have to get vomiting in a gutter drunk to have memory loss. Me, I have to downed a bottle of spirits in an hour to forget, but other people it's more like 6 beers pretty quickly.
physicalchemistry 11y ago
Unless she is giving tons of IOI's and appears dtf from the 2nd hour or so it isn't worth the time. beside that, if she cheats with you, she's gonna cheat on you, therefore definitly no gf-tier.
once that is clear she might only migrate to plate / sub status if she fulfills the requirements.
At least for me it's easier / more time efficient to go after single girls or continue networking.
RockinRhombus 11y ago
The only problem I have with any of all this is the following or a variation of it:
It just screams "lack of options" to me.
bradyo2 11y ago
I think he was talking more about if you're at the mid-way point where it's either make or break, and you have the opportunity to escalate to 'cheating', that you'd be foolish not to take it.
cascadecombo 11y ago
It's not lack of options, you should try to understand the point from which someone is talking / coming from.
You've already put some time and effort into the girl, she's into you and you're pretty sure you will be getting to play around some. Why should you walk away when she will probably just go home with someone else later.
It's the exact same if a single girl says something stupid, would you walk away? Well you might if you think like how you are displaying to us.
He also mentioned in the article, if the girl brings it up early, etc etc, if you read it, that she probably wont be going home with you and to find another girl.
beltwaytr 11y ago
There is a couple of things I don't agree with here.
"I have the belief that if the boyfriend is doing a good job then the girl will be un-gameable."
"Now don't even bother with NEWLY engaged or married girls. I think you'll have better chances with a nun than a girl who just made a fresh commitment with another man."
All chicks are liable to cheat. It just takes the right guy.
I've seen enough women who are engaged, hours into their marriage, and even "good" girls get down on their knees/bend over because the right dude just happened by.
bradyo2 11y ago
Yes I actually agree, but I see where he is coming from. Newly engaged/married girls are exponentially harder to game than others.
BaltoSquadGuy 11y ago
We had this discussion on here a few weeks ago. I think that, with the exception of the gfs of your male friends, all women you find attractive should be gamed as if they were single.
Sexual strategy is amoral. If she's going to cheat with you and you refuse, someone else will do it. Why waste the lay with an attractive girl (you wouldn't be gaming her otherwise, right?). If someone's handing out free ice cream, might as well eat it.
Another thing to remember, and this is a realization that took me awhile, is not to fall into the morality trap. A lot of people were saying (in previous thread) to tell the bf of her issues. This is not our responsibility. Gentlemen, a lot of us are recovering BP. Many were cheated on. It is easy to remember those days, and project our past feelings onto a current cheating situation.
Do not do this. Better yourself, go after what you want and whoever makes you atttactive. There is no overarching bro code that you're held liable to for every man on the planet. If his girl is willing to cheat, that's a problem from his end. He either LTRed a mega-slut (mistake) or she's lost interest. The irreparable damage is already done - you're just, to use a phrase Churchill coined, "making the rubble bounce."
beltwaytr 11y ago
Yes, I guess the hard part would be if you constantly placed yourself in the other person's shoes or reflected on a past incident. In addition to adding a sense of morality to the issue.
KyfhoMyoba 11y ago
Regarding newly married or engaged girls. Neil Strauss in the beginning of 'The Game' recounts a story with his 'natural' friend Dustin where Dustin picks up a girl w/ her bf that she moved in with within the last week and fucks her with Neil watching.