The most important thing the article misses is the difference between skill and knowledge. You can gain knowledge from reading or watching videos, but you can only gain skills by doing.
You cannot learn to invest, to play the guitar, to build a roof or to weld metal from books. And skills that you can only learn by doing (i.e. experience) are always more valuable than the knowledge that you can gain on your own, by reading.
When you on a different level of, let's say, self-growth, you need different things to internalize and make your own.
If you are having trouble getting out of bed and cleaning your teeth and showering, you don't really need specific knowledge, you don't really need philosophy. You need to just get off your ass and do it. Reading about philosophy and specific knowledge at that point would be just another form of procrastination.
If you had conquered getting out of bed, and generally put your life back on track, your priority changes. Now, you don't need pure grit to overcome the initial hardships of starting up, you need a stable framework in which you will ground your new habits in your day-to-day life, you need to understand why you actually do it, what your goals are, and how you plan to achieve them. Those tasks, are generally, an area of philosophy. It provides broad justification to your action in the first place. You don't need it that much when you just beginning, but for the overall stability of your continued efforts, you need some broad reasoning as to where you are going and why.
And now finally, you had started something, you kept at it, and you established a general framework for integrating that action in your life. Good. Now, and only now, is the time to analyze what problems you meet, and search for a specific knowledge of how to solve them. Research, try, repeat. And as you conquer your problems one by one, you slowly grow as an expert in the respective field.
Now, I consider each of those steps to be necessary in that exact order. If you start focus on small details without some broad framework that will keep things together, you will fail. If you will attempt to establish a broad framework for your actions, before actually doing them, you will procrastinate to no end and fail. So your critique mainly applies to people who had already approach women and who understand why the everloving hell they are doing it at all.
So I disagree with an underlying message as I see it. Each kind of approach has it's own time and place where it has a priority, and they are compatible and mutually enhancing, and you can't jump through levels, instead you need to patiently and throughly conquer every step of the way. Specific knowledge has it's time and place, and it seems that you personally had reached the level at which this is what you need the most. Good. But do not project your own level of personal developement on everyone here. Some of us are still trying to get out of bed.
P.S.
While I mostly applied the scheme as I see it to generall self-improvement, it is actually the way with any activity in general. First you need to just get started, power through the fear of beginning and stuff, then you need to ask yourself, why you are doing that, why is that activity needed to you and how is it incorporated into your broader worldview, what is it's place, and just generally justify doing it to you in the framework of your own personaly philosophy, and only after that you need to get down to neety-greety details and deal with those as they arise.
For some people, the process of starting out and integrating the activity into the main worldview is so internalized, they do it fast and do not even notice that they've done it. For them the focus on specific knowledge is a priority because they already so good at first two steps that they easily complete them without any concious effort. But, and I may be wrong at that, people like that, are generally, a minority, and should not represent general population, aside from being an example to strive towards.
I don't lift to get pussy, I lift so that if I ever meet an aggressive retard that I can't reason with I have higher chances of cracking his head open than he has of cracking mine.
Specialized knowledge is also usually the most difficult because you have to know enough to know what to specialize with. This is where mentors come in handy, and also explains why people browse almost endlessly for information because what they seek is specialized they just haven’t come across it yet.
I agree with this. I have improved my life in many ways when I started going straight to experts for information tailored to my objectives rather than endlessly reading shit online.
The vast majority of your failures did not and will not come because you aren’t strong enough, or smart enough, or blessed with some other critically necessary capacity, but because there was some key piece of information you didn't know.
Maybe I am missing something, because I don't find this inspiring at all.
If I could use my muscles and/or intellect to solve a problem then I could get ahead in life through sheer willpower. There is a genetic piece to it -- we all have natural strengths and weaknesses -- but by working hard for long enough I could beat out most of the competition.
But when the delimiting factor is access to information then there's no strategy other than either getting lucky enough to find someone who is proven to be driving on the inside lane and convince them to let you merge, or throwing enough darts hoping to eventually hit a bullseye. So I'm not really sure what the call to action is here.
For some areas -- e.g. fitness, gaming women, fighting, painting, writing -- this setting is fine. The information is freely available to all. But what if I want to learn how to invest and make it to the big time? What if I want to learn how to build a company? What if I want to learn how to market a product, or flip real estate, or beat the market using HFT? These are skills that require information that is generally closely guarded and often buried under mountains of disinformation, and blindly lobbing darts is almost certainly going to take someone's eye out.
I am asking for clarification because all I see here is "you'll never compete until you learn the super secret handshake particular to X skill". Perhaps I misunderstood the thesis.
I think you're right on the thesis. The answer is that either you get lucky and someone tells you the secret (which I think the best way to accomplish this is by trading information) or you figure it out like other people who know it. All the examples you give can be deduced if you're smart enough. I'm pretty sure you answered your own question. I doubt he was trying to be inspiring, it's just how it is.
This is where intelligence plays a factor: You need to know how to filter bad sources and hone in on quality material that relates to your pursuit. For instance when I first started to teach myself how to invest, I didnt read Motley Fool or Investopedia, I went to my universitys business school and got syllabuses from their MBA program and learned from that.
To learn how to invest, or to build a company or flip real estate, you got to find out information SPECIFIC to said purpose. Find specific people who know their shit or specific books.
These are skills that require information that is generally closely guarded and often buried under mountains of disinformation
Same thing can be said for fitness where the industry is full of fake gurus, BS supplements, broscience etc.
And same for picking up for women. Tons of fake PUAs, PUA scammers, blue pillers giving dating advice.
The point is most of these skills have tons of disinformation with it, and it’s up to you to sieve through it and separate the good from the bad.
You could use your intelligence in your case or in whispers case of LMR, where with enough experience and trial and error, you could eventually get to the right answer.
But in both instances, you would have lost time, money or lays to reach said conclusion.
Or you could save yourself the trouble, and seek out the specific advice pertaining to your issue.
In the past, /u/Whisper has written articles about the general method of how to improve at any particular skill. The idea that domain specific knowledge trumps intelligence is not a new observation, and isn't particularly helpful beyond inflating your ego when you fail. So I am struggling to understand what the takeaway of this article is.
Same thing can be said for fitness where the industry is full of fake gurus, BS supplements, broscience etc.
And same for picking up for women.
The difference is that fitness and picking up women is not a zero sum game. So the information is out there, you just need to wade through all the muck to find it. In addition, there is no penalty for "losing"; you can try as many times as you'd like, iterating as you gather more information.
In contrast, anyone who knows how to beat the market consistently isn't writing a book about it. And there is a cost every time you play, so iterating in this context comes with a heavier price tag.
People get in the habit of looking for hidden messages in my writing. I don't know why. Maybe they grew reading "Catcher in the Rye" in public school English class, where the snow symbolized purity or some stupid shit like that, so they think smart people like to play games with layers of meaning.
But the goal of good writing is to communicate a message as clearly as possible, and unless that message is "look how smart I am, everyone!", then hidden meanings don't serve that purpose.
I meant what I said: Possessing relevant specific how-know is more important to success, at any task, than great effort, or a being generally educated.
The conclusion is clear: When you want to do something, don't assume you will succeed because you lift and read a lot. You need to learn about that specific thing. Go out and seek that knowledge.
Now, I have future plans for this train of thought, that involve talking about Cicero, the modern university, the job market, and public education... but that's for another day. What's important is that "just lift" and "just read Nietzsche/Aurelius/Hegel" are inadequate, even when they are combined into "just lift and read Nietzsche/Aurelius/Hegel". Both of those things existed in the universe before TRP, and young men still needed TRP because they lacked specific knowledge about seduction.
Your job doesn't stop with lifting, self-discipline, education, self-refinement, etc. Because if you have all those things, you'll still fail at any unfamiliar task. That's why I don't tell people to "just lift". It's not good enough. Young men aren't languishing in despair because this generation somehow (despite similar genetics) magically lacks courage or intelligence or both... they fail because they don't understand the world and thus their efforts are misdirected.
I think this is a sound point. Just as being without critical information can create undesirable results, you could have all the information, follow through, and lose. Having concrete knowledge prepares you to for the best approach but you are still matched up to the variables in the way.
Should you read in a way that hones your intellect? YES.
​
However, those two are just the baseline. There may be only one reality (and infinite fantasies) but that reality is complex as fuck. Anything worthwhile is going to take you years of study and trial and error. That's just to map out the activity properly so that you can operate effectively. That's a really hard process already. Never mind the social aspects. Most people aren't willing to go through this. They'd rather LARP at doing it and chew your ear off about their "journey." Find your passion and start failing at it. Having a mentor is not optional either. You need someone that can check your work.
It's highly reductionist and reads like someone with a resentment against dudes who lift and go hard.
It sounds like rationalisation. 'You might lift and take risks and read, but....I have the secret special sauce'.
'You go out, and practice under pressure' - so in other words you be a guy used to doing things under stress, backing up and pushing and making adjustments?
Does reading difficult text (philosophy) harness your ability to process information, think critically and eventually discover nuggets of wisdom (secret special sauce)?
Does lifting harness your ability to back up, perform under stress, make adjustments until you find what works (secret special sauce)?
OP is isolating magically knowing some secret special sauce.
Look at Humanistic psychology and specifically holistics. Man is greater than an isolated thing (knowing a secret special sauce). He is always an interconnection is systems.
Keep telling guys reading philosophy and lifting is sorta, kinda, but not 'Red Pill', you just need to know the secret special 'knowledge'....
Then see how he goes when his awesome LMR secret special sauce goes nowhere because he is a skinny fat intellectually retarded idiot who can't handle nuance.
Eventually you'll tell him 'oh, the secret special sauce is you gotta lift bro'...
Eventually leading back to interconnection in the helpful systems.
Reductionism regarding growth, psychology and being effective in the word was annihilated 50 years ago.
Lifting has helped me immensely in many ways. I don't give a fuck about OP telling me his secret special knowledge sauce is the real 'red pill'.
Lifting is a big part of my recovery.
It also helps me when I am with clients to have some congruence when I say life is holistic, go lift. Instead of telling them 'nah, brah...you just need the secret key information to make any situation work.
To be honest, this post looks like OP stating he doesn't do some core red pill tenets, such as lifting and only believes they are 'sorta, kinda ok'.
I understand that knowing those bits of knowledge he refers to (which is really just behavioural psychology) is important.
But the 'our message wasn't masculinity' or whatever is the weird part.
It has shades of the resentful girl or nerd of the past eons 'big masculine men are baaaddd...look at my special secret knowledge'.
You touched on that, though.
So we can count Whisper out as maybe not having clout?
/u/Whisper is a non-lifting boomer who has been in a stready relationship for 9 years.
Let that sink in. The values dissonance and the hypocrisy come from the generational gap here. /u/Whisper is a fat old married dude who wants the hip younger kids to like him. When these young guys want him to, you know, put up or shut up he writes garbage drivel like the OP in an attempt to hide behind his nonsense authority (like being EC or Vanguard or w.e actually means anything) on an internet forum to reframe the conversation into an arena he's excellent at: aphoristic vague word salad diatribes that confuse and offend real thinking men.
Good conclusion, wrong premise. You reduct TRP members to be compartmentalized into these three schools, as if those are definitive seperate paths, never crossing.
In the Age of Tutorials, people gather knowledge without intelligence. We can learn anything about anything. Even more, we now reversed millennia of given upon empirical legacies, and younger people now teach things to their elders.
Following lists and recipes, assembling those bricks of knowledge, without realizing those can be moved or reassembled according to the patterns we see emerging. That is intelligence at work.
Acting upon seen patterns and with that newly reassembled knowledge requires the stability and composure of someone with enough experience not to be bothered with trying something new. That requires some getting used to, now attainable for anyone with a gym membership.
Sure, maybe that one time, if you knew that specific knowledge, you could get through LMR. If you knew the recipe, good for you. If you didn't, you either use your intelligence to see what you did wrong and adjust accordingly, because you have the ability to figure it out by yourself, or make a "what did I do wrong?" post in askTRP, asking for a new recipe.
Most electricians don't learn their trade from another electrician. They learn the applied science after studying the topic and THEN learning as an apprentice under a skilled electrician. Almost like having a wingman.
Don't hate on the guy writing about how electricity works or modern design practices for electrical work.
I've seen this point posted a lot around here. I get it, you want all wingman posts.
Fine, just shitcan me and GLO or whoever. Just stop railing the same point if you're not going to follow through.
I think it's misguided and wrong.
Just like canning the article I submitted yesterday. I thought it's a great, albeit dark read to understand how women progress through the decline and for guys who have the lens to view it and understand it top down.
It's how I write.
I only know how to write to myself and others like me. I suspect a large amount of disagreement with this writing style might be projection of your own reading preferences.
I read an article about a lay report and it's always 80% humble brag, it's relatable but cringe to read, I don't read it.
But I don't care because no one is forcing me to read anything.
Is this the key here guys? Use effort and intelligence to build towards effective preparedness and specialized knowledge? Because it seems that the latter flows from the former 9/10 times, so theyre not mutually exclusive.
I think theres something to be said of natural “aristocratic abilities” (whether it be ability to solve complex equations or understanding of systematic historical processes in a linear fashion) versus those who have to put in the maximum effort to obtain similar results, not necessarily plebs. I admit to not reading it but Ive always been skeptical of Gladwells 10000 hours claim.
Its just to get that knowledge you first have to experience success and fail in that area.
When i learned something since i am in this life it is learning/searching for experience doesnt work.
There are thousand of books and millions of websites for your choosen area you wanna get better but in the end you have to do it with your hands.
What should i do ? Reading millions of books and websites before i fuck a girl ? Ffs there are books how to fuck...
People read too much these days instead of try and failing. When reading or learning would work we all would be working with shares and not sell books how to get rich.
I will be 90 when im done with reading 0.1% of all training plans there are but have not gained one kg of muscles.
trollreign 5y ago
The most important thing the article misses is the difference between skill and knowledge. You can gain knowledge from reading or watching videos, but you can only gain skills by doing.
You cannot learn to invest, to play the guitar, to build a roof or to weld metal from books. And skills that you can only learn by doing (i.e. experience) are always more valuable than the knowledge that you can gain on your own, by reading.
Hargabga 5y ago
When you on a different level of, let's say, self-growth, you need different things to internalize and make your own.
If you are having trouble getting out of bed and cleaning your teeth and showering, you don't really need specific knowledge, you don't really need philosophy. You need to just get off your ass and do it. Reading about philosophy and specific knowledge at that point would be just another form of procrastination.
If you had conquered getting out of bed, and generally put your life back on track, your priority changes. Now, you don't need pure grit to overcome the initial hardships of starting up, you need a stable framework in which you will ground your new habits in your day-to-day life, you need to understand why you actually do it, what your goals are, and how you plan to achieve them. Those tasks, are generally, an area of philosophy. It provides broad justification to your action in the first place. You don't need it that much when you just beginning, but for the overall stability of your continued efforts, you need some broad reasoning as to where you are going and why.
And now finally, you had started something, you kept at it, and you established a general framework for integrating that action in your life. Good. Now, and only now, is the time to analyze what problems you meet, and search for a specific knowledge of how to solve them. Research, try, repeat. And as you conquer your problems one by one, you slowly grow as an expert in the respective field.
Now, I consider each of those steps to be necessary in that exact order. If you start focus on small details without some broad framework that will keep things together, you will fail. If you will attempt to establish a broad framework for your actions, before actually doing them, you will procrastinate to no end and fail. So your critique mainly applies to people who had already approach women and who understand why the everloving hell they are doing it at all.
So I disagree with an underlying message as I see it. Each kind of approach has it's own time and place where it has a priority, and they are compatible and mutually enhancing, and you can't jump through levels, instead you need to patiently and throughly conquer every step of the way. Specific knowledge has it's time and place, and it seems that you personally had reached the level at which this is what you need the most. Good. But do not project your own level of personal developement on everyone here. Some of us are still trying to get out of bed.
P.S.
While I mostly applied the scheme as I see it to generall self-improvement, it is actually the way with any activity in general. First you need to just get started, power through the fear of beginning and stuff, then you need to ask yourself, why you are doing that, why is that activity needed to you and how is it incorporated into your broader worldview, what is it's place, and just generally justify doing it to you in the framework of your own personaly philosophy, and only after that you need to get down to neety-greety details and deal with those as they arise.
For some people, the process of starting out and integrating the activity into the main worldview is so internalized, they do it fast and do not even notice that they've done it. For them the focus on specific knowledge is a priority because they already so good at first two steps that they easily complete them without any concious effort. But, and I may be wrong at that, people like that, are generally, a minority, and should not represent general population, aside from being an example to strive towards.
Blazer808 5y ago
I don't lift to get pussy, I lift so that if I ever meet an aggressive retard that I can't reason with I have higher chances of cracking his head open than he has of cracking mine.
tryingtolearnitall 5y ago
It’s time to figure out what you need to know
Thinkingard 5y ago
Specialized knowledge is also usually the most difficult because you have to know enough to know what to specialize with. This is where mentors come in handy, and also explains why people browse almost endlessly for information because what they seek is specialized they just haven’t come across it yet.
-uppitymantis- 5y ago
I agree with this. I have improved my life in many ways when I started going straight to experts for information tailored to my objectives rather than endlessly reading shit online.
idonthavtitsbcimaguy 5y ago
This topic deserves a post all on its own
OSaraiva 5y ago
It is life changing indeed.
FieldLine 5y ago
Maybe I am missing something, because I don't find this inspiring at all.
If I could use my muscles and/or intellect to solve a problem then I could get ahead in life through sheer willpower. There is a genetic piece to it -- we all have natural strengths and weaknesses -- but by working hard for long enough I could beat out most of the competition.
But when the delimiting factor is access to information then there's no strategy other than either getting lucky enough to find someone who is proven to be driving on the inside lane and convince them to let you merge, or throwing enough darts hoping to eventually hit a bullseye. So I'm not really sure what the call to action is here.
For some areas -- e.g. fitness, gaming women, fighting, painting, writing -- this setting is fine. The information is freely available to all. But what if I want to learn how to invest and make it to the big time? What if I want to learn how to build a company? What if I want to learn how to market a product, or flip real estate, or beat the market using HFT? These are skills that require information that is generally closely guarded and often buried under mountains of disinformation, and blindly lobbing darts is almost certainly going to take someone's eye out.
I am asking for clarification because all I see here is "you'll never compete until you learn the super secret handshake particular to X skill". Perhaps I misunderstood the thesis.
Redpiller77 5y ago
I think you're right on the thesis. The answer is that either you get lucky and someone tells you the secret (which I think the best way to accomplish this is by trading information) or you figure it out like other people who know it. All the examples you give can be deduced if you're smart enough. I'm pretty sure you answered your own question. I doubt he was trying to be inspiring, it's just how it is.
woodensho 5y ago
Exactly. I want to know how to find the specialized information.
p3n1x 5y ago
What would you do with it? Just wanting to have it, doesn't mean you should. FYI, the sidebar is full of "secrets".
Project_Zero_Betas 5y ago
This is where intelligence plays a factor: You need to know how to filter bad sources and hone in on quality material that relates to your pursuit. For instance when I first started to teach myself how to invest, I didnt read Motley Fool or Investopedia, I went to my universitys business school and got syllabuses from their MBA program and learned from that.
Protocol_Apollo 5y ago
But what other way is there?
To learn how to invest, or to build a company or flip real estate, you got to find out information SPECIFIC to said purpose. Find specific people who know their shit or specific books.
Same thing can be said for fitness where the industry is full of fake gurus, BS supplements, broscience etc.
And same for picking up for women. Tons of fake PUAs, PUA scammers, blue pillers giving dating advice.
The point is most of these skills have tons of disinformation with it, and it’s up to you to sieve through it and separate the good from the bad.
You could use your intelligence in your case or in whispers case of LMR, where with enough experience and trial and error, you could eventually get to the right answer.
But in both instances, you would have lost time, money or lays to reach said conclusion.
Or you could save yourself the trouble, and seek out the specific advice pertaining to your issue.
p3n1x 5y ago
A lot of this shit is a basic way to excuse failure.
I understand if you attended a shitty school system, or grew up in a poor area lacking quality acces.
But anyone who grew up with solid parents, financial security and a decent school system has zero room to cry about not being "the man".
Fitness isn't guarded at alll. That is another shit excuse. People just don't want to work hard and do what they are supposed to do.
FieldLine 5y ago
I don't know. That was my question.
In the past, /u/Whisper has written articles about the general method of how to improve at any particular skill. The idea that domain specific knowledge trumps intelligence is not a new observation, and isn't particularly helpful beyond inflating your ego when you fail. So I am struggling to understand what the takeaway of this article is.
The difference is that fitness and picking up women is not a zero sum game. So the information is out there, you just need to wade through all the muck to find it. In addition, there is no penalty for "losing"; you can try as many times as you'd like, iterating as you gather more information.
In contrast, anyone who knows how to beat the market consistently isn't writing a book about it. And there is a cost every time you play, so iterating in this context comes with a heavier price tag.
Whisper 5y ago
People get in the habit of looking for hidden messages in my writing. I don't know why. Maybe they grew reading "Catcher in the Rye" in public school English class, where the snow symbolized purity or some stupid shit like that, so they think smart people like to play games with layers of meaning.
But the goal of good writing is to communicate a message as clearly as possible, and unless that message is "look how smart I am, everyone!", then hidden meanings don't serve that purpose.
I meant what I said: Possessing relevant specific how-know is more important to success, at any task, than great effort, or a being generally educated.
The conclusion is clear: When you want to do something, don't assume you will succeed because you lift and read a lot. You need to learn about that specific thing. Go out and seek that knowledge.
Now, I have future plans for this train of thought, that involve talking about Cicero, the modern university, the job market, and public education... but that's for another day. What's important is that "just lift" and "just read Nietzsche/Aurelius/Hegel" are inadequate, even when they are combined into "just lift and read Nietzsche/Aurelius/Hegel". Both of those things existed in the universe before TRP, and young men still needed TRP because they lacked specific knowledge about seduction.
Your job doesn't stop with lifting, self-discipline, education, self-refinement, etc. Because if you have all those things, you'll still fail at any unfamiliar task. That's why I don't tell people to "just lift". It's not good enough. Young men aren't languishing in despair because this generation somehow (despite similar genetics) magically lacks courage or intelligence or both... they fail because they don't understand the world and thus their efforts are misdirected.
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Jack0fDiamonds 5y ago
I think this is a sound point. Just as being without critical information can create undesirable results, you could have all the information, follow through, and lose. Having concrete knowledge prepares you to for the best approach but you are still matched up to the variables in the way.
machoking_your_gf 5y ago
Should you lift and be in great shape? YES.
​
Should you read in a way that hones your intellect? YES.
​
However, those two are just the baseline. There may be only one reality (and infinite fantasies) but that reality is complex as fuck. Anything worthwhile is going to take you years of study and trial and error. That's just to map out the activity properly so that you can operate effectively. That's a really hard process already. Never mind the social aspects. Most people aren't willing to go through this. They'd rather LARP at doing it and chew your ear off about their "journey." Find your passion and start failing at it. Having a mentor is not optional either. You need someone that can check your work.
[deleted] 5y ago
[--removed--]
TotallyNotEvadingBan 5y ago
You spelled alpha wrong, dork
[deleted]
INNASKILLZ2K18 5y ago
Yeah, this is a weird post man.
It's highly reductionist and reads like someone with a resentment against dudes who lift and go hard.
It sounds like rationalisation. 'You might lift and take risks and read, but....I have the secret special sauce'.
'You go out, and practice under pressure' - so in other words you be a guy used to doing things under stress, backing up and pushing and making adjustments?
Does reading difficult text (philosophy) harness your ability to process information, think critically and eventually discover nuggets of wisdom (secret special sauce)?
Does lifting harness your ability to back up, perform under stress, make adjustments until you find what works (secret special sauce)?
OP is isolating magically knowing some secret special sauce.
Look at Humanistic psychology and specifically holistics. Man is greater than an isolated thing (knowing a secret special sauce). He is always an interconnection is systems.
Keep telling guys reading philosophy and lifting is sorta, kinda, but not 'Red Pill', you just need to know the secret special 'knowledge'....
Then see how he goes when his awesome LMR secret special sauce goes nowhere because he is a skinny fat intellectually retarded idiot who can't handle nuance.
Eventually you'll tell him 'oh, the secret special sauce is you gotta lift bro'...
Eventually leading back to interconnection in the helpful systems.
Reductionism regarding growth, psychology and being effective in the word was annihilated 50 years ago.
Self-honest 5y ago
Give the best guitarist in the world the worst guitar in the world and he will literally make people cry.
Give a beginner the best guitar in the world and it won’t make a bit of difference.
Knowing how to play guitar is everything when “what he wants” = “playing the guitar well”.
The other two categories are supplemental when we’re looking at the world in a vacuum of “he wants pussy” and (still?) isn’t getting any.
[deleted] 5y ago
[--removed--]
INNASKILLZ2K18 5y ago
Lifting has helped me immensely in many ways. I don't give a fuck about OP telling me his secret special knowledge sauce is the real 'red pill'.
Lifting is a big part of my recovery.
It also helps me when I am with clients to have some congruence when I say life is holistic, go lift. Instead of telling them 'nah, brah...you just need the secret key information to make any situation work.
To be honest, this post looks like OP stating he doesn't do some core red pill tenets, such as lifting and only believes they are 'sorta, kinda ok'.
I understand that knowing those bits of knowledge he refers to (which is really just behavioural psychology) is important.
But the 'our message wasn't masculinity' or whatever is the weird part.
It has shades of the resentful girl or nerd of the past eons 'big masculine men are baaaddd...look at my special secret knowledge'.
You touched on that, though.
So we can count Whisper out as maybe not having clout?
Smacks of PUA style.
j_arbuckle2012 5y ago
/u/Whisper is a non-lifting boomer who has been in a stready relationship for 9 years.
Let that sink in. The values dissonance and the hypocrisy come from the generational gap here. /u/Whisper is a fat old married dude who wants the hip younger kids to like him. When these young guys want him to, you know, put up or shut up he writes garbage drivel like the OP in an attempt to hide behind his nonsense authority (like being EC or Vanguard or w.e actually means anything) on an internet forum to reframe the conversation into an arena he's excellent at: aphoristic vague word salad diatribes that confuse and offend real thinking men.
DullIntroduction 5y ago
Good conclusion, wrong premise. You reduct TRP members to be compartmentalized into these three schools, as if those are definitive seperate paths, never crossing.
In the Age of Tutorials, people gather knowledge without intelligence. We can learn anything about anything. Even more, we now reversed millennia of given upon empirical legacies, and younger people now teach things to their elders.
Following lists and recipes, assembling those bricks of knowledge, without realizing those can be moved or reassembled according to the patterns we see emerging. That is intelligence at work.
Acting upon seen patterns and with that newly reassembled knowledge requires the stability and composure of someone with enough experience not to be bothered with trying something new. That requires some getting used to, now attainable for anyone with a gym membership.
Sure, maybe that one time, if you knew that specific knowledge, you could get through LMR. If you knew the recipe, good for you. If you didn't, you either use your intelligence to see what you did wrong and adjust accordingly, because you have the ability to figure it out by yourself, or make a "what did I do wrong?" post in askTRP, asking for a new recipe.
sadomasochrist 5y ago
Most electricians don't learn their trade from another electrician. They learn the applied science after studying the topic and THEN learning as an apprentice under a skilled electrician. Almost like having a wingman.
Don't hate on the guy writing about how electricity works or modern design practices for electrical work.
I've seen this point posted a lot around here. I get it, you want all wingman posts.
Fine, just shitcan me and GLO or whoever. Just stop railing the same point if you're not going to follow through.
I think it's misguided and wrong.
Just like canning the article I submitted yesterday. I thought it's a great, albeit dark read to understand how women progress through the decline and for guys who have the lens to view it and understand it top down.
It's how I write.
I only know how to write to myself and others like me. I suspect a large amount of disagreement with this writing style might be projection of your own reading preferences.
I read an article about a lay report and it's always 80% humble brag, it's relatable but cringe to read, I don't read it.
But I don't care because no one is forcing me to read anything.
My two cents.
thoroughthinker 5y ago
Depends on the domain but usually knowledge proceeds practice
Protocol_Apollo 5y ago
Yep I agree.
Specificity wins vast majority of the time.
If you want to learn how to seduce women, you got to learn how to seduce women (ie game).
Lifting, grooming, having a mission etc are still very important but they take number 2 to game.
If you want a higher bench, anything that is not specific to benching is demoted to place 2.
Project_Zero_Betas 5y ago
Is this the key here guys? Use effort and intelligence to build towards effective preparedness and specialized knowledge? Because it seems that the latter flows from the former 9/10 times, so theyre not mutually exclusive.
Protocol_Apollo 5y ago
Meesa thinks so but meesa open to suggestions
Project_Zero_Betas 5y ago
I think theres something to be said of natural “aristocratic abilities” (whether it be ability to solve complex equations or understanding of systematic historical processes in a linear fashion) versus those who have to put in the maximum effort to obtain similar results, not necessarily plebs. I admit to not reading it but Ive always been skeptical of Gladwells 10000 hours claim.
MessianicJuice 5y ago
Thanks for validating my endless quest for a PhD, trp op
anonymous_3001 5y ago
Some critical shit I learned today. Thanks
Revolverboi 5y ago
Good topic and worth a discussion.
Its just to get that knowledge you first have to experience success and fail in that area.
When i learned something since i am in this life it is learning/searching for experience doesnt work. There are thousand of books and millions of websites for your choosen area you wanna get better but in the end you have to do it with your hands.
What should i do ? Reading millions of books and websites before i fuck a girl ? Ffs there are books how to fuck...
People read too much these days instead of try and failing. When reading or learning would work we all would be working with shares and not sell books how to get rich.
I will be 90 when im done with reading 0.1% of all training plans there are but have not gained one kg of muscles.