I was actually banned from this sub...don't remember how long ago. I have conflicting views with at least someone here, and honestly I do not care, I even started my own sub, big deal. Anyway, to the point, I lurk around here every once in a while to catch up on anything "new" and sometimes go into the MGTOW sub to see what is new there, and there are several distinct differences in attitude between the two camps.
Now before we ruffle anyone's sensitive feathers, let me preface with the simple fact that your life is your choice, do what ever the fuck you wan't and pay the price for the consequences. At least if you do this, you are already proving that you have a penis and are genetically, and fundamentally, male. Why? Even if you lack mental agency, the physical act of taking life on the chin will never escape men. That is just how it has always been. Make a choice, follow through, deal with the consequences. Something women, never, and will never, be able to do. Hell they can't even make a choice let alone do the rest. Okay, let's move on.
I have been diving into stoicism A LOT over the past 6 months. I feel like it is personally the right way to look at things in this world IF your life goal isn't pleasure of the body, but rather, pleasure of the mind and spirit. But, using its logical approach I have made a an inference that I fell like the majority of people over at MGTOW never make. And that, is the simple difference between them, and TRP. Hell, its a difference between them and blue pillers. What is that difference? TRP offers a solution. There was a person recently who was trying to prove to me that MGTOW is a solution to a lost battle. What I have always liked about TRP, is that no matter what the problem, it is never a lost cause and there is a way out, there is a solution. Be it mental, physical, spiritual, the fundamental goal of TRP is offer as much insight into the how the social dynamic between men and women works so that we can find solutions to common problems. TRP is not for quitters. TRP is not for weaklings. It's for those men that do not want to give up, refuse to be defeated, and even in the absolute worst situations will strive to find a way to turn profit for themselves (not necessarily monetary).
Someone who has wen't MGTOW may say something like "well my choice is to abstain from said practices and focus on self preservation". Then you are no better than a woman, except your approach is passive, while her's is active. It isn't necessarily a bad choice, after all, do what ever you please, but here is my point of view and why MGTOW never fully appealed to me. The slogan itself is great, men going their own way. But just like "black live's matter" went from slogan to communist/liberal organization focused on shoving its own mantra down everyone's throat, so did MGTOW become yet another mantra that if you don't accept, you may as well leave. Going your own way (at least back when I first found it) meant every man was looking for a solution using their own brain, and funny enough TRP was along side it always offering solutions.
Now I am definitely no alpha male getting laid like a warlord out there. I have my own beliefs and opinions, but I do appreciate the fact that there is at least ONE group of people who are trying to break things down in as much a scientific way as possible to form theories and solutions.
The next difference is the level of anger. Red pill rage is common, and the more hurt a boy got, the more angry he will be. The difference between MGTOW (and the proof is in all of their comment sections) and TRP, is that TRP teaches to push passed it, and go back out to the battle field with new weapons and armor. MGTOW comments are full of men who have never pushed passed their anger. They go to work and see a woman and immediately approach any interaction with her with prejudice, disdain, and anger. "She is one of them". Sure, I am not denying that in the end all women are extremely similar with slight variations here and there. But there is honestly no reason to be angry all the damn time about it. Just how stoicism teaches that emotions are important, it also teaches that one should approach emotions from an outside point of view, and see if there is any benefit from them. If your anger is neither helping nor hurting you, it is a waste.
TRP always says to use that anger as a source of motivation to counter attack, to hit the gym and to go improve in everything one can and as one improves, their life will fill with other more important things, and that anger will no longer be necessary. Yet one of the MGTOW guys (and I am quoting his words) " My anger is meant for MY survival first&foremost, my Survival is more important. " Cool. His anger has gotten him absolutely nowhere, because using plain, calm logic, one can do the exact same thing. I always advocate for men to be as efficient as they possible can, and cutting out wasteful emotions that bar you from evolving. Emotion is EXACTLY what got us wrapped up in this bullshit in the first place. "Love" and "Attraction" from a blue pilled perspective will just get him divorce raped. Look at them logically and one can use them towards their advantage.
I know I probably am not stating anything new. But, I know I have talked to several new guys who keep asking me, "what is the point of TRP if I can just go MGTOW". It's because one is an ideology and the other is a book of problems and solutions. MGTOW says "I can't fail my math class if I just don't sign up for it". TRP says "I will only fail my math class if I don't learn and practice".
Peace
*Note, this is my opinion, not 100% fact. Take everything you read online with a grain of salt and a cool head. Sarcasm is a thing. Your life your choice, terms and conditions apply.
vrsatillx 5y ago
I think that the 18-25 years are the ones when MGTOW is really a good option. Then when your SMV peaks, you have your money and your life is good, go PUA
rusted380 5y ago
I'm a MGTOW and occasionally visit here. I think RedPill is the core truth, and PUA/MGTOW are diverging options for dealing with it. But what option you choose I think is like figuring out what investing strategy to use. It depends on your age, your situation, your personality, your tolerance for risk, etc.
To those who say MGTOW are just guys who can't get laid, I offer myself as an anecdotal example.
I've been married twice, the first time for 2 years and the second time for 19 years. Been divorced for about 3 years now. Have 2 grown kids. After 19 years my wife tried to monkey branch, failed, and then was shocked I didn't take her back.
Im getting ready to turn 50. The divorce rape reset me to zero - no retirement, no assets. I do make good money, I'm coming back rapidly. I'm fit and healthy and have been told I'm good looking.
But I have no desire to date. Sex at my age is a nice to have - not a need to have like in my 20s. Sure, I could "put myself out there" but it's a huge effort these days and frankly the dating pool looks like mostly scraps and leftovers.
Besides that, I figure I have just enough time to build some kind of retirement if I stay focused. If I met a wonderful woman and then got divorced again... I just won't have the lifespan left to come back from that.
So, for that reason, my dating days are over. But everyone's situation is different. If I were 20 years younger, I might be on Tinder. If I had Red Pill knowledge in my 20s... I'd have been dangerous. Too bad internet didn't exist then.
jojojijo333 5y ago
You're always welcome here brother
E_Anonymous 5y ago
Pretty sure I see it constantly repeated on this sub to not get married. You don’t need to be married to get laid or have children.
when_its_too_late 5y ago
I think past 40 current mgtow philosophy makes a lot more sense than when someone is 20-30.
This post was specifically written because there are dozens and dozens of young, fit, and not at all ugly dudes trying to justify their video game and masturbation addictions through mgtow/redpill. I consider that wasteful and lazy. I specifically write this for myself. I am still young, good looking, but I need to act now or not at all.
u4534969346 5y ago
you just have no idea, that's all.
I've first seen how fucked up women are in my early 20s (they rotating me with 5 chads or fucking with me while they had a boyfriend and so on) and what a waste of time even if they are easy and write you "wanna fuck?" but they still bugged me most of the time. I still fuck if they cross my way but I'm not doing looksmax or musclemax anymore for getting pussy and I love being lazy and playing video games.
but good luck to you.
when_its_too_late 5y ago
Hey it's about hermit.
I'll go back to managing my estate and building a legacy than you very much.
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Batman_MGTOW 5y ago
MGTOW is only focused on relationships with the opposite sex, not sex. Some choose to not have sex with the opposite sex but that's not what MGTOW is at its core. MGTOW is against relationships because they aren't beneficial for men in the 21st century and can lead to a lot of problems with the law or with the woman herself and they can restrict men's freedom and financial independence.
The solution is to still improve yourself but go for younger women, sure they will be less mature and have less life experiences but they will be much better looking than any woman from your age range. Men age like wine while women age like milk. Believe me, if you have a good career and make an above average income and aren't overweight, you shouldn't find it difficult to get laid with women from the 18-25 age range, if you can't do it, it's because you lack the game aspect and that can be learned quickly with experience. If you don't want to look like a creep, approach only in bars and clubs. A lot of blue pillers have this misconception that men, like women, are unable to attract people who are much younger than them but that is false, men are very different, and that is because women are attracted to more than just looks. Women are attracted to 3 things: looks, money and status. That is because women are looking for a provider, and when you think about it, that is what a relationship basically is, because of the economy, she has a job too but she doesn't like having to work a shitty job and making a very low income so she tends to be attracted to men who make more than her even if they are shorter or uglier. I have seen some very beautiful women be attracted to ugly men just because they had money, I have seen it many times, and even now I see a similar thing happening to me. Even though I am only 22, since I took a long time to finish pre university, most of the students in my classes are around 18 years old so a lot of beautiful young 18 year old women actually want me because they know that I am older, I am more mature, I have a car and they also know that I will make a much better partner since I am older. If you don't want to date them, you can just hookup with them and not go any further, you can use this to get laid a lot even as you get older. The only men who will be unable to do this are the ones with no career who live in their mother's basement and have absolutely nothing to offer. This is actually why there are 40 year old virgins, because there are some men out there who never left their parents' home, and no woman wants that because, like I said, they want a provider.
battyryder 5y ago
Don't know why you are being down voted, this sounds plausible to me.
Batman_MGTOW 5y ago
Because what I said goes against the tribe mentality of TRP. Its the same with the mgtow subreddit. When you write comments that are not properly aligned with the community, you usually get downvoted. My most upvoted comments were the ones that required the least amount of effort, just repeating what everyone says gets you lots of easy upvotes but it isnt fun because instead of being a unique person with your own opinions, you are forced to be someone that you are not, so I write comments based on what I believe, not on whether I will get upvoted or not.
The mentality of the red pill is that older guys cant get laid with younger women and that to get laid even as a younger guy, you need to lift weights and get jacked, but the truth is that although that helps, it isnt a requirement and the same can be said with game. Being real with women will get you less success than being fake but at least you will be more likely to end up with good women than bad women. I have found a site recently called "Kill your inner loser" which is based on Good looking loser but better, the guy has proof that he gets laid on his site, tons of nude pictures and even some videos where we see his face. And he has guides on how to become like him. What I love the most about the guy is that he doesnt use pickup lines or lie about who he is, and he gives great advice that can actually be applied to the real world. In fact, any guy can follow his advice and get laid with over 100 women, because it is not a special technique, you have to improve your looks but also acquire dating experience with average or below average looking women first before you can get the 8s, 9s and 10s unless you are already at an advantage. What I love about the site also is that he has a very long and comprehensive tinder guide that can really boost your matches and get you tons of women very quickly, it takes some work but its not impossible. For so long, I had been unsure of what I should do but now thanks to the guy I know what to do, I wish I had known everything when I was 16 because I am 22 and I basically wasted 6 years of my life online on manosphere communities that led me nowhere. At least now I can say that it was all worth it just to find that website, and I actually found it because the guy who made the website has a reddit account and he posts frequently here on TRP, I found him through the search function on reddit by searching only through TRP for specific topics and he has the answers that I was looking for.
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Whitified 5y ago
Spinning plates is the new marriage of 2020. You're playing Russian Roulette with #MeToo instead of the courts.
It's very simple, really. Red Pill teaches you if a woman isn't good enough, you next her. Right? So why can't a mgtow guy decide to next all woman?
Red Pill also teaches you that society is fucked, and that it will only get worse. Right? Enjoy the Decline!, right? So by that logic doesn't that mean women and society are getting more and more fucked up, as time goes on? Think about it. Doesn't that mean that given X amount of time, there must come a point where women in our society are so fucked up that no man should ever touch them, right? No matter how far away that point might seem?
Mgtows simply decided that society is already past that point. You think we aren't there yet. But whether you or mgtow are right, doesn't that still mean that mgtow is the endgame? Can't you see how red pill idealogy always lead to mgtow?
g1114 5y ago
I've never heard a decent argument against these exact statements. OP's whole post is just "man up" extended into a couple paragraphs
Whitified 5y ago
I wasn't even stating an argument, I was trying to teach lol
g1114 5y ago
Of course, but trp really needs to elaborate on the "enjoy the decline" whlie we're living in it.
Someone posted about how the protests are a shit test, and we shouldn't pay attention to people that destroy property. I disagreed heavily with that. Those same rioters are going to get UBI and 50% income tax like Denmark put in place, so being red pill and focusing on yourself stops mattering if the rest of society just keeps taking more and more from you
Whitified 5y ago
It's ironic becos they say enjoy the decline, yet don't seem to fully understand that it means women are declining too.
By their logic an ostrich who buries his head in the sand is red pilled.
A frog sitting in a well doing pushups all day is red pilled.
It's not, it's pathetic. They're not just saying "Man Up", they're saying "Man Up and all would be well!" and it's this latter part of their message that is so misleading.
The irony of course, is that mgtows are supposedly the outcasts of society. Yet mgtows aren't the ones telling others to sit in a well and stare at his own biceps all day.
CommonKoala6 5y ago
I think you got it wrong.
I've read this and I can't agree with all of this.
​
You are right about emotions - they bring profit for women, not men. Men operate on logical, stoic thinking not emotions
​
But you try to split TRP (which is collection of psychological facts about how our society works) and MGTOW (which is movement).
​
These two things are closely connected, and will be.
​
Any kinda guy that accepts redpill, automatically will become MGTOW - going to the clubs, bars, paying for girl's drinks or even having sex is not interesting anymore. Because he can see how it works, this all anti male industry lead by women on every level of society.
when_its_too_late 5y ago
The used to be connected. Mgtow BECAME a movement because of emotion. TRP remained a go to guide of solutions that you either learn from or fuck off.
You are obviously, wrong. Your last paragraph makes that clear.
CommonKoala6 5y ago
You know there's purplepill right? Between red and blue pills
If some guy took the redpill and still decide to go on a parties, to nightclubs, to meet other women on dates, he's a purplepill
Real facts about female nature are too scary for him to believe in so he reject them.
when_its_too_late 5y ago
So this whole sub is purple...are you an autist?
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jawnzoo 5y ago
Who hurt you lol, never checked out mgtow before and don't really care about which is better.
Agreed, people should think for themselves and take responsibility for their actions.
most people don't realize that humans don't have original "ideas" that their beliefs come from an outside influence.
And most people just love complaining without ever working on their problems.
other than that idk, i'm sure there's incels in both.
SalporinRP 5y ago
MGTOW has some decent points but their fantasy of living alone your entire life and fucking escorts to get your fix is unobtainable for 95% of men.
Then they just parrot "the juice isn't worth the squeeze" referring to women.
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when_its_too_late 5y ago
Yup. The squeeze ain't hard either
Chris_Rene 5y ago
MGTOWs only talk about "beta bux" side of hypergamy and they hate the game. They're very logical and transactional when it comes to dating. Women are not like us they need to chase and experience some emotional spikes before considering having a logical conversation like a man would. I don't like MGTOWs tbh.
yeet_senpai 5y ago
crybaby got kicked out of community, got emotional, now uses woman shaming tactics by comparing mgtows to women. mgtow is for aged men, who had enough number of relationships, including the marriage and divorce. not for stupid teens who can't fit their thoughts in a few sentences and, for sure, not for cult lunatics who imagine themselves as glorious warriors in "a new shiny armor" (wtf, really? lmfao)
PoetAlcoholic 5y ago
The problem with MGTOW is that biologically we need women to reproduce. Therefore choosing not to deal with women in anyway means they are rejecting the biological imperative. When a woman does it, society sees it as some sort of liberation, but in reality it's like freeing a slave and then putting them in hell. The biological imperative is the only real reason we exist on Earth, everything else we just made up.
E_Anonymous 5y ago
Yup. Logically the only reason we’re here is to reproduce. That’s why our sex drive is the highest next to survival needs. You can’t fuck if your dead. If guys want to go their own way that’s fine. More for me I guess.
poshmarkedbudu 5y ago
None of it matters. Biological imperative...?
Don't be a slave to your biology. Why does it matter if you produce offspring or not? In the end, the sun will burn out and every memory of every person ever will cease to exist.
Now, if having children is mportant to you, cool. Good for you. Find your own meaning and enjoy it but don't try to project your ideals onto me or anybody else.
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Evo499 5y ago
Both the communities were pretty similar back in the day with the slogan being all you really needed. Then it was invaded by low level incells who never got past their rage phase and want to just rip on women all day regardless of how unproductive it is
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when_its_too_late 5y ago
Sounds like someone confirmed all my points. Thank you
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jojojijo333 5y ago
There's no camps. Each man is on his own, even here.
A man can choose to not deal with women. This is his business. You consider that not dealing with women a.k.a. quitting the game is a loser's solution to the problem. This is your problem.
dominicthetiger 5y ago
You can't quit the game. I get where you're coming from, but the guys who "quit" women are usually the ones that didn't have success with them in the first place. This does not aply to everyone of course, but from my experience I usually thought about "quitting the game" when I didn't get laid or my game was bad. I feel like those who can actually quit usually don't make a big deal out of it, and still fuck when the feel like it. To create a sub about sexual strategy when that strategy is literally trying to avoid women is counterproductive at least. If you don't want women in your life, just don't have them in your life. Just my oppinion.
jojojijo333 5y ago
Really, why is that?
Guys can quit the game for different reasons: no success, sick of women, higher priorities than women, etc. The reason doesn't matter. You can't believe it because of the way you think and because most men you've met use MGTOW as a cope. I can easily use my experience against yours since I know MGTOW guys who were not incels.
Again, you don't know what you're talking about, there's levels to MGTOW, do your homework
tyrryt 5y ago
The game has changed drastically over the past 50 years. Now the game is actually Russian Roulette.
Men have lost all power, while costs have been raised to catastrophic levels.
Most guys keep playing and eventually wind up blowing their brains out (jailed/ruined by fake rape accusations, driven crazy by BPD psychos, caught in pregnancy trap, divorce raped and left broke and in alimony slavery for life, locked into sexless marriage with a degenerating post-wall hag, etc., etc.)
Given the stakes, compared with the benefits, quitting the game is looking saner every day, whatever your "success" with women has been up to now.
The50Gunner 5y ago
Oh, no, I had a decent amount of success with women. The summer after I left my last serious ex, I doubled my body count, but in doing so I got a nice, close look at female nature, the risks that dealing with women entailed, and I found it utterly revolting. That's why I quit women.
Anarchistguy_2 5y ago
Exactly. If a guy wants out, that's his choice to make. If he wants a life without women, it's his call to make. He doesn't give a rat's ass if you disagree. That won't change his decision.
SalporinRP 5y ago
The problem with MGTOW is it attracts young blackpillers and incels and poisons their minds. They're "checking out of the game" in the first inning before they've truly tried.
If some dude in his 50s wants to go MGTOW then fine.
Ironjj 5y ago
MGTOWs ARE redpillers. Most MGTOWs fully believe in whatever you can find in the sidebar. Incels and Blackpillers despise everything about MGTOW. They consider MGTOWs losers (or incels like themselves) who cope with failure by claiming they can get pussy but don't want to.
Blackpillers are usually incels who admitted 'defeat'. The admission of defeat is antithetical to the "i can get it but the juice ain't worth the squeeze" repeated by MGTOWs ad nauseam.
SalporinRP 5y ago
This is just a "no true scotsman" argument. At its core does MGTOW actually mean guys who can get girls but choose to go their own way? Sure.
Is it like that in practice. Absolutely not. Every time I would check in on that sub there was absolute drivel upvoted to the top like "With all the money I'm saving from not going on dates, I was able to buy myself a good gaming pc"
Ironjj 5y ago
I don't get why are you telling me this ? Did I claim the opposite ? I said Blackpillers hate MGTOWs because they consider them guys living in denial.
No its not. normie/blue pilled incels, MGTOWs and Black Pilled incels are pretty different in their thought process. They don't influence or 'poison' each other's minds since they come from very different angles.
Go to ANY incel subreddit, they despise anything and everything MGTOW.
Anarchistguy_2 5y ago
Then they're not going their own way. They just can't get women. Two VERY different things.
SalporinRP 5y ago
Ok so what about my statement was false. They might not be “going their own way”, whatever that means. They are still being brainwashed by that sub
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anuloespiral 5y ago
MGTOW is just an alternative...you are generalizing over a topic that doesn’t have much to give...who cares which one is “better”? If you wanna feel good about choosing one thing over another one, this is not the place. Keep working on that stoicism.
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Anonymous33369 5y ago
Mgtow is for dudes who are little beta bitches that are in the closet and hate women and The Red Pill is for alpha guys who like women and like too win.
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KanDeMan2 5y ago
Strengthen your body....LIFT Brah...
Strengthen your mind.....Stoicism Brah.
Strengthen your soul...... Jesus Brah.
Frolic.
when_its_too_late 5y ago
Read east of Eden. Maybe it will do you some good.
Batman_MGTOW 5y ago
There are only 3 rules that define what a MGTOW really is: you will never have children, you will never get married, and you will never cohabitate with a woman. Everything else is up to each individual man. Some may decide to forgo women altogether, some may pump and dump, some may date, the important thing is that all of them are going their own way, none of them will ever settle because if they do, then they stop being a mgtow. I am a MGTOW but I have seen from my own experiences, that game actually works if it is done correctly and that women prefer men who play on their emotions instead of men who try to reason with them logically. So, I am interested in improving my game to be able to pickup women more easily, but I will never settle down, because I know that I wouldn't get any benefits from doing so, that a single man has more sex than a married man and gets to spend less money than a married man too. When you look at the way the world works, how the laws are, and how women treat men in relationships, it doesn't take a genius to realize that women are undateable for the long-term. But they can be fun in the short-term, which is why although I will never settle down and even though I will always remain a MGTOW, I will still have sex with women, because it doesn't restrict my freedom or my financial independence. As for the MGTOW community, it depends, I have met some who were hateful, while I have met others who weren't, not everybody is the same because not everyone is born with the same brain and not everyone has gone through the same experiences in their life.
zino193 5y ago
I will give you the benefit of the doubt as you are from my time, a time before Sandman and blackpillers - when PUAs were slayers, not marketing gurus and MRAs were the real feminists.
Honestly man - I think TRP failed. I think politics got in here - and turned it from a practice first - slay and earn your voice - to another "debate me bruh" internet pocket.
I think People were looking for answers easier than "go lift". They wanted a master politico-philosophico-socio-cultural masterballprint to end their suffering at the hand of others.
As for MGTOWs, there was a discussion years ago on the same topic - this sub had maybe 20k or 50k, most were MRAs and MGTOWs, and red pillers were just seen as just PUAs that took it personally. There was a comment that said something along these lines:
Heavily paraphrased - it's been like 6 or 7 years since then.
jojojijo333 5y ago
Exactly, the manosphere's goal is to make you free, the rest is up to you. We will not babysit you
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SmamelessMe 5y ago
TRP, MGTOW and MRA are each a different answer to the question whether the juice is worth squeezing.
Each is the right answer to different people. I frequent all.
Whitified 5y ago
I think it's better to say that each is the right answer to different times and societies. I'd definitely be mgtow if Im an American, MeToo is getting really bad there.