There's a lot of advice on TRP that goes something like "don't get married, but if you must, do X." In the spirit of that theme, for those men who insist upon using the red pill to achieve their blue pill dreams, I offer the following: demand a dowry.

I started off thinking of this as a joke, but the more I thought about it the more sense it started to make. If you want to get married, and the state will no longer guarantee your marriage, then she needs to put up collateral. Think of it as a bond for her future good behavior.

Who cares if she gets half the house in divorce if her daddy made the down payment? Who cares if the wedding cost $30,000 if daddy broke out his checkbook. And who cares if you have to pay child support if you can draw from your half of the $150,000 "family starter fund" that daddy so generously bestowed upon you as you started your new lives together.

This may sound absurd (it is), but you've been asking and this is the best I've got. And yet it is a solution. This is an actual solution that could theoretically work in the real world. It would of course be very difficult to find a woman like this, but I can actually see a future scenario where some version of this reality becomes common. Daddy is a retired boomer sitting on enough money to last another lifetime. His little girl is hitting her late 20s and he wants desperately to make her happy. I'm just saying... it could happen.

So in conclusion, don't get married, but if you must, demand a dowrry. And if you are financial planner, get on this already. You're going to want to do some discounted cashflow modeling to determine the appropriate dowry to fully hedge the divorce risk for various demographic groups.

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throne_deserter 6y ago

This is very common practice in south asian culture (e.g. India and Pakistan) but it is being discouraged. Asking for dowry is a punishable crime now in India. State would do anything to protect women.

MattyAnon Admin 6y ago

And who cares if you have to pay child support if you can draw from your half of the $150,000 "family starter fund" that daddy so generously bestowed upon you as you started your new lives together.

Factor into your calculations that she'll get half of this back in the divorce.

This may sound absurd (it is)

It's not absurd. You are buying a liability and taking responsibility for it. That should be factored into the price.

To anyone who says "money shouldn't have anything to do with love" then I agree. I completely agree. And marriage is... when all's said and done.... a purely financial contract. A one sided financial contract.

Marriage has no other obligations other than the financial. She can cheat, you can cheat, you can impregnate another woman .... all with no consequences. There is no breach of contract, there are no restrictions placed on her other than she cannot marry someone else simultaneously. Financially however, she gets half of everything, you have to pay for your lawyer and hers, and you'll owe her alimony.

The question is: how big should the dowry be in exchange for these costs? Alimony for eg 20 years at $25k per year? That's $500k. 50% chance is happens, but she gets half in the divorce, so that's still $500k.

But it's worse than that.... if you've got $00k kicking around she'll make a claim for much higher alimony.

Let's make this simpler:

DO NOT MARRY

largepaycheckaddict 6y ago

This isn’t absurd at all. It’s sensible and has been part of many cultures globally since the institution of marriage.

The modern world and the obvious tyranny the west has degenerated into is what’s absurd.

bsutansalt 6y ago

This is quite similar to something I'd proposed should my boy ever decide to get married one day: I'd sock a fat pile of cash into a kind of fund (eg trust) that would "mature" upon 20 or 25 years of marriage. Something like that. Realistically it'd be somewhere in the neighborhood of $10,000 to $20,000. Over those 20-25 years of growth while sitting in the fund it'd mature into a pretty good nest egg for retirement or a new home.

The catch is should one of them cheat or file for divorce, then the other gets executive use of the funds to pay for lawyers and whatnot. It's a carrot and a stick to hold over their heads to think twice about fucking up the relationship.

Imperator_Red 6y ago

The catch is should one of them cheat or file for divorce, then the other gets executive use of the funds to pay for lawyers and whatnot

This won’t work because the court won’t recognize any of these pre-marriage contracts. The judge is going to see x amount of money and split it up however he feels like even if she is in the wrong. This is basically a pre-nup with an added wrinkle, and we know that pre-nups are thrown out all the time.

The point of my idea is that we are pricing in the fundamental brokenness and bias of the court ahead of time by making her pay you to take on risk.

bsutansalt 6y ago

The money can be held in escrow in a trust with me as the trustee and they the beneficiaries. When conditions are met then the money gets distributed. Should something happen to me then another trustee takes over.

Imperator_Red 6y ago

Ah. I don’t know. Not a divorce lawyer, but I doubt this would hold up. The judge would probably laugh and toss in with the rest of the marital asset pool.

bsutansalt 6y ago

It's not their asset and cannot be included in a divorce. Trusts are exempt from divorce if created before marriage, and especially if they've never benefited from the assets contained therein during the marriage itself. It's my money, MY assets in the trust that are to be given to them when conditions are met very similar to a living will. If I die before the conditions are met, then a new trustee takes over until they are.

no_its_a_subaru 6y ago

You know I was thinking about something similar lately and wanted to bounce my loosely formed plan off you since you seem to be in the same like of thinking. The only reason I’m considering “marriage” is to raise children in a two parent household. So here it goes:

Marriage: small religious ceremony only, in a no common law marriage state. If she wants her big, over the top, special day, Disney princes fairytale wedding her parents are footing 90%+ of the bill if not the entire thing.
Pre marriage savings: going into a trust is the “control” of a family member. If said person passes it moves down to another pre designated family member named at the opening of the trust i.e. dad> brother> cousin> etc. The. Money in the trust will be accessible to me alone, none of this “we” shit.
House: basically the same as above+ I will never let her make any payments towards the mortgage.
Finances: not married by the state so no need to join any finances. Sure we can open a joint checking account to make paying shit easier but I think that would heavily limit the blast radius of any legal claims in case of separation.
And finally children: I’m paternity testing every single one of them, no exceptions. IDC if they all have the same mole on their right ass cheek that every single one of my uncles, aunts, cousins and siblings have. (Yea that mole is one dominant ass trait, my family makes a huge joke about it. Literally every single person that has not married in to the family has it.) I’m not raising another mans orgasm.

If she can’t/ won’t agree to all of these then she’s “not the one for me.”

I know there are probably some things that I’m missing and that I need to talk to lawyers about. I think not being a stagnant pushover bp bitch + her having to face the music if she does anything stupid and leaving with close to nothing are big deterrents. I know it can’t stop AWALT but at least she will have to face the consequences of her actions. I know I’ll probably end up paying child support but if the financial situation is so lopsided who knows, I might get full custody of the children if I’m lucky. A man can dream I guess.

bsutansalt 6y ago

Pre marriage savings: going into a trust is the “control” of a family member. If said person passes it moves down to another pre designated family member named at the opening of the trust i.e. dad> brother> cousin> etc. The. Money in the trust will be accessible to me alone, none of this “we” shit.

What you want is a living/revocable trust where the trust takes ownership of the property or cash and you become the benefactor. Legally it's not your assets anymore, but you retain access to it all until you die at which point it typically becomes an irrevocable trust.

Moving as many assets (i.e. car house, etc), cash, investment accounts, etc. into a trust as possible before marriage is a fantastic way of protecting your assets long-term. What I am not sure of is if the money is in a trust and you die, does it get death taxed or not. I hope not, but I'm not sure.

https://estate.findlaw.com/trusts/trusts-an-overview.html

There's also a bunch of caveats to be aware of:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jefflanders/2012/07/18/can-a-trust-protect-my-assets-in-divorce/

fuckGuilt 6y ago

Love it.

Reminds me of my plan....I have no kids, so I'm going to party the rest of my 40's and clear though my 50's with younger women, then I'm going to marry a rich, well preserved widow with a big family, and use my retirement savings to bang sugar babies on the side.

Vikingcel 6y ago

This may sound absurd

It actually sounds very reasonable

Maxxed1Ultron 6y ago

This is already commonly seen in a lot of countries where the parent sees their child as an investment, and plans to get returns by matching him to the 'highest possible' financially worthy woman. Didn't realise this was groundbreaking.

pras 6y ago

Back to India, back to the Middle Ages. Not criticizing, just grinning!
The more things change, the more they stay the same!

vullnet123 6y ago

My mom is trying to get me to do this actually. She has this client whos daughter is 2 years younger than me, but I guess their family is loaded, she keeps trying to set me up with her since they have money.

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SirBlankFace 6y ago

Oh, the marriage, not the dowry. Still not worth it no matter how loaded the women's family is, it'll play to your disadvantage in her having a better divorce lawyer or something to that degree. Just have an outburst about her having to pay your alimony or you going back to live with her and she'll shut up.

vullnet123 6y ago

Wish it'd work. All her nieces and nephews were married or had kids by my age, and one of my cousins just named her daughter after my mom so she has that grand baby fever. Different culture though. Girls worth marrying are virgins and almost their first boyfriend is their "husband" right away

NathanHollister 6y ago

Ask her how much of a dowry she can provide. You need to get enough that you still profit even if the woman steals half your stuff. I.e. the dowry should match what your net worth will be 10 years from now if you don't get married.

foomasters 6y ago

I make enough that no amount of realistic dowry can really match my 10y single life net worth. My question to my traditional parents is why are you trying to arrange a girl for me? I seriously live my freedom right now and I don't see a reason why I would bring a teenager to tank my mental health just for some $$

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trueliberal1 6y ago

Here's a better strategy. Only marry a woman who earns at least twice what you make. That way, you'll get the alimony in case of divorce. Now there is little risk. She'll have the financial incentive to not divorce you -- cheaper to keep him -- and if she does, you get paid and find yourself a younger model.

Imperator_Red 6y ago

Only marry a woman who earns at least twice what you make

That’s even less likely than receiving a dowry.

Alpha27145 6y ago

if you can't beat em, join em.

if you're gonna get betabuxed, do it to daddy as well

Jokes aside, this sounds unrealistic and really beta demanding money from other people. As it was said in the 48 laws "never accept the free lunch"

Impulsive666 6y ago

But the first law of economics is also "there is no such thing as a free lunch".

Alpha27145 6y ago

that's the point I was trying to make by bringing up the free lunch. That no lunch is free, you pay with money or yourself.

I do agree with you

Imperator_Red 6y ago

Yes its unrealistic. It’s meant to be partly tongue in cheek, and partly a realistic appraisal of what a fair deal in marriage would actually look like under the current laws.

It’s certainly not “beta.” Beta is the female sexual strategy that extracts resources from men. This is literally the opposite of that. Labeling random things alpha or beta depending on whether you like or dislike them is classic TRP blooper. You don’t take take the time to actually understand our concepts. You just throw around the buzz words like the corporate drone who mentions synergy 5 times in a meeting.

Finally it’s not a free lunch. Labeling it as such is yet more evidence of your lack of understanding of both TRP and economics. The dowry that I’ve presented is a hedge. You are accepting payment as collateral for her future good behavior because you are taking on risk. The dowry fills the void left by the government’s abrogation of its responsibility to enforce marriage contracts.

Alpha27145 6y ago

I say it's beta because demanding anything from someone simply because of some notion of how things are and how they should be is beta

A kid demanding his parents pay for his college because they are his parents is very weak

A man demanding his future father in law pay him to babysit his daughter and call it "marriage" sounds pretty weak on the part of the man getting married. I understand that it's a hedge against how things are now, but demanding money because of the thought you might fail at keeping your wife seems like trying to play an unorthodox strategy in a losing system. I'm good, I'll never do that

KimJongUghhh 6y ago

It’s not free if you’re offering your services in return for payment.

You being a high value male, time is money.

She should pay you for your time spent with her.

Alpha27145 6y ago

*her dad should pay you

Just like how entitled girls don't understand the value of money, these girls won't either. Her dad will, but please don't fuck a girl's dad

KimJongUghhh 6y ago

What if he offers a good price?

Alpha27145 6y ago

don't ask me, ask yourself

NathanHollister 6y ago

I think after enough man have checked out of the dating market, this will start to happen.

1- boomers have unimaginable amounts of wealth after having robbed the generations before and after them

2- more and more men stop dating altogether either by choice (mgtow) or otherwise (let themselves go and become Incels). Half of Americans are single.

3- women are learning that the workplace sucks. Now because of me too, men are slowly ceasing to associate with and mentor women at work. And forget about sucking your way to the top, as guys offer that anymore. So women will be stuck in shitty boring poorly paid jobs just like your average man is, and women don't like working hard. Without a way to get promoted, they will eventually decide they want a husband instead.

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bakamoney 6y ago

As an Indian I am glad this is a thing.

Of course it can get abused of course.

However the media never fucking reports on the positive sides of dowry creating a negative vacuum.

I cant count of so many instances where dowry made the life for that couple or helped then in a crucial moment.

lancer000 6y ago

In my country dowry is illegal & I have heard cases of women falsely accusing their husbands of 'asking dowry'. You see, the government is already locked us out of our insurance, thus giving women the upper hand in most things.

tenpointmatt 6y ago

cant imagine this actually working out in practice, but have an upvote for out of the box thinking.

RStonePT 6y ago

I'll give you one guess how demanding shit goes.

If parents like you, chances are they will throw shit at you to make sure their daughter is set up. My girls parents have done it. my best friends wifes father did as well. the only people I've known who haven't had this were ones whose parents weren't well off. I guarantee you walk up to any of these dads and demand things they would tell you to fuck off.

Good in theory, horrible in practice.

bakamoney 6y ago

You don't need to ask really. It goes more subtle than that .

Also call it "wedding gifts". Not dowry.

Imperator_Red 6y ago

Haha yes exactly. I called it “family starter fund” in the post.

Imperator_Red 6y ago

I guarantee you walk up to any of these dads and demand things they would tell you to fuck off.

Then you walk away and you’re no worse off than if you just stick to the “never get married” advice. The post is attempting to answer the question of the marriage no matter what crowd. The question keeps coming up and I’ve attempted to answer it.

Obviously it’s not very realistic, but 20 years ago I would’ve said that Bruce Jenner being named woman of the year was unrealistic. Like I said in the post, there’s a lot of boomers sitting on piles of cash and a lot of dads that just want to make their daughters happy...

RStonePT 6y ago

I get what you're saying, I do.

For the life of me though I can't figure out why you picked such an anti social way to discuss it is all

Imperator_Red 6y ago

I don’t think you know what anti-social means.

RStonePT 6y ago

I chose a more polite term than my first choice

Imperator_Red 6y ago

Guess you should have gone with your first choice then because you chose a phrase that makes no sense. Not sure how a five paragraph essay can be anti social.

RStonePT 6y ago

It's mental masturbation, sounds good in your head and you've never done fuck all to know if it's useful or dangerous advice.

_Sohan_ 6y ago

Just relax.

"... and you've never done fuck all ..."
- Why all this negativity?
If you don't like his post, great! Nobody cares!
No need to get so emotional.

Emotion is a woman's characteristic.

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skuttt 6y ago

Not sure I approve of solutions that fuck men over more. That is, you’re fucking over her father.

xsealand21 6y ago

Dowry is illegal in India,a girl can file case whether false or true and your entire family goes to Jail,so best of luck

seedster5 6y ago

I didn't grow up in the states. I'm not even American. But I saw the red pill in action from my dad but i thought he was being a douche because of all the lies these single lonely teacher fed me in school in the US. But after finding the red pill and really underatending what's going on and why, its clear that some cultures and ethnicities have known how to live your life with balance.

barrierstobridges 6y ago

I really, really, want to see a field report of a user who was able to do this in the 21. century in a western country. TradIndians or something like that don't count.

C'mon dude, show yourself!

simpleafk 6y ago

Lol exactly, if you can even find a father that even gives two shits. I've only seen this happens in traditional Indian and asian families. Most of the time they are of the upper class anyways so the women tend to be a little more conservative.

paradox368 6y ago

It is still prevalent in very few conservative families in India! 2 decades ago it was 90% of the cases.

2_qwertyuiop 6y ago

Lol. Very much an active practice in india, in my village.

I am against the practice of dowry in my country for a lot of reasons. But holyhell this sounds a good practice in the west

pras 6y ago

The ancients were red pilled. The modern generation has lost it.

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ahg1008 6y ago

The only stupid thing was that I always hated my grandpa.he seemed too strict ... till I found redpill.. then everything made sense.. I respect him now.

unamedasha 6y ago

Curious on why your opinion is different for your country

2_qwertyuiop 6y ago

1) female infenticide/ foeticide - sex selective abortions

"Spend 5000 today and save 500000 tomorrow"

This is an advertisement for abortion/ female foeticide/ infanticide in a clinic in India. It means spend 5000 now to kill the child and save 500000 on her marriage dowry!

There are places in india, like the state of Haryana where the sex ratio is in the bloody 900s. Imagine how fucked up must be the social situation in this state so that they produce this ridiculous stat. Mind you, this same state of Haryana is one of the richest in India in terms of per capita income. Yet here we are.

2) Financial crippling of the poor and middle class

Middle class people are afraid of the dowry system. The lowest rungs of the society absolutely reels with problems associated with this system. The financial burden completely lies on the girl's family - mostly the father and the brother (s) to procure the back breaking dowry demanded by the groom. This is one of the reasons for the murder of female foetuses in India.

3) Murder and assault of women.

Again this is prevalent in the middle class and is brutal in the lower class. I am not talking about the #metoo storm like cases in the west, here. I am actually talking about women being burned alive, killed by beating and completely messed up. Unpaid dowry money often causes big problems in the marriages - both physical and mental.

This Is why asking for dowry is a criminal offence in India. Yet the practice still goes on as strong as it ever did.

I am fortunate to be from one of the southern states. We have a high sex ratio of over 1000. Still the problems due to dowry haven't spared us too.

Now i consider the west to be better than all this.

Sex selective abortions are not gonna affect you anytime soon.
I think the social and legal fabric protects women more in the west in all sense. We all know that realistically the dowry system won't thrive in the west. The feminist movement will quash it in a whim. But the way OP has explained it is cool.

My mates, India is much more complex than all of the comments that you read in this subreddit. Reality is often something else. More than 50 % of indian women live in the villages and believe me when i say these women are oppressed in all sense.

ahg1008 6y ago

This is true.. like I said .. everything could have gone good.. but we men decided to be tyrants... And even in the west till recently it was ok to beat your wife up.. What red pill doesnt get is the fact that men and women are pretty much the same.. Women get hypergamous with too many choices/no punishment and men get abusive with too much power/lack of punishment... We need to stop waging a goddam war on each other. All Humans Are Like That. AHALT. Its just that when you are at the top of your respective hierarchy people dont literally fuck you over because you have enough power to seek revenge and or it would harm their self interest.

But yea.. we're all fucked one way or the other..

ahg1008 6y ago

Mostly because 5% men hit and burn the women for money. So now no one gets the dough..Maybe these men were dark triad or whatever.

The system rewarded you for being at the top of the totem pole as far as social hierarchy went.. alpha fucks + beta bucks = bigger dowry (cash + home +car + gold + daddy pays for all medical expenses related to pregnancy)... it worked even if you were beta bucks.. but not if you were a poor beta.. then you would get a land whale+ nothing. So men were naturally inspired to rise in the ranks of men. And if your daughter was a slut.. ..you had to pay a queens ransom to get someone to marry her.. so parents actively stopped girls from being sluts.. now its like .. you're a slut ? Good for you!! My daughter's a strong, independent, waymannn.

The problem with the whole gender dynamics thing is that the moment one gender dominates the other, they start abusing the power. You must be a benevolent dictator not a goddam tyrant. People like the first and ruthlessly dispose the second.

And then the sex ratio changed.. there were more men than women and so like many things ...almost everything wrong with women has to do with a buncha pussy ass/white knight simps who'd be happy to get their willy wet and abuse women if they can get away with it.. So now we have a backlash.. where women are abusing us back..

You think a jerk boy is abusive to women.. think again.. betas are much more abusive because somehow they feel left out on the whole fuck every slut experience and take it out on the chick. And it has nothing to do with the fact that the bitch might not have been a slut.. They get their blue pill fantasy shattered and then seek revenge.. A vicious perpetual cycle of blue pill expectations and anger when real life doesn't work that way.

But yea.. we had it pretty good in the old days.. I don't remember my grandfather ever being romantic to my grandma or sweet towards anyone . Infact he married her for the money and shit..He wasn't abusive but wasn't kind and softhearted either..rules were rules ... her hypergamy was like seriously 0... Infact she is very conscious of not disrespecting the old fart. He would simply ask her to fuck off to her parents' if she didnt like his rules. And consequently my grandma is very feminine and loving towards us all.. perhaps the only selfless woman I've ever met.. she was trained that way.. by my grandpa.

PS - She still shit tests him once in a blue moon... even at 74! And he still asks her to fuck off if she doesn't like his rules.. :)

foomasters 6y ago

The point about asking her to fuck off to her parents' is exactly what my dad used to recite. That's like lvl 99 IDGAF. Not sure if that would work in the West.

ahg1008 6y ago

It would.. except she'd take half of everything plus kids with her.. My grandpa wouldn't give half of anything or kids.. He'd rather go to jail.. Different time.. different world.. does help that he was a farmer and not a 9-5 office drone.. so going to jail meant shit and didn't need any gym either.

nobody_thinks 6y ago

holy fuck this is genius.

especially in a few more years, Dad's will start to become aware of the big city slut life cycle ... and will start panicking on behalf of their daughters ... no Dad wants a cat lady daughter ... you can even bring this up and use it as a bargaining chip ... option (1) your daughter gets pounded by 100 different dudes and ends up slightly mentally ill living with cats ... option (2) I shack her up, keep her pregnant and healthy and you get grandkids and a sane daughter ... what's that worth to you bud?

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SuperCrazy07 6y ago

LOL, you guys are nuts.

First of all, the reason these women can’t get married is because they are unrealistic. The vast majority of ~30 yo single women could get a husband in a maximum of 2 years if they became more real. The father needs to address that.

Second, you don’t get rich by being stupid. The idea of paying my daughter’s higher SMV boyfriend to marry my daughter over other girls so that he can try to prevent her from hoeing around...I’m out of words.

I know many, many successful men and I don’t know any who would agree to this. It’s probably more stupid than a man getting married to begin with.

nobody_thinks 6y ago

over your head

fathers did this throughout most of history.

remove skirt. remove panties. pinch yourself.

hearse223 6y ago

Give him the option of either a red pill or blue pill for maximum effect.

fdsafdasfdsafds 6y ago

So in conclusion, don't get married, but if you must, demand a dowry

Getting married.. is now genius? Who are we fooling really.

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Pussyshack 6y ago

Unrealistic. See my above post

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[deleted] 6y ago

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ShotgunTRP 6y ago

I do. Thats a boss as fuck name

[deleted] 6y ago

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Pussyshack 6y ago

Unrealistic. But hey you can dream.....

The average middle class family has nowhere near the amount of $$$ required to satisfy the spirit of a dowry. Besides, daddy is trying to get rid of her & pass her fat entitled ass off to you so he doesn't have to deal with her fuckups anymore.

Not to mention that there's always a simp who will wife her slut ass up thinking he won a prize so no dowry needed.

Imperator_Red 6y ago

The average middle class family has nowhere near the amount of $$$ required to satisfy the spirit of a dowry.

Correct. I said this would be hard to find.

daddy is trying to get rid of her & pass her fat entitled ass off to you so he doesn't have to deal with her fuckups anymore.

This is not the most common attitude I have witnessed. Most parents want their children to be happy, and most fathers show absolutely no aversion or disappointment in their daughters’ degenerate lifestyles and stupid decisions.

Pussyshack 6y ago

most fathers show absolutely no aversion or disappointment in their daughters’ degenerate lifestyles and stupid decisions.

That's because they're pussified doormats who don't lead their families. If they really wanted the best for their daughters, they'd turn off football, lay off the coors light and properly raise her ass. A lazy fuck like that ain't offering $$$ to marry that slut.

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ntvirtue 6y ago

Good if you can pull it off.....I can think of some legal hurdles you may encounter might want to check with a lawyer.

meerita 6y ago

Dowry are illegal in many countries right now, what I mean is, you can ask her for contributions, to pay half of the bills or entirely, but not in the old sense dowry was used for.

allrandomworldnews 6y ago

Lol get this to go viral. I want to see headlines like “entitled dead beats demand dowries to put up with womens “shit““

That would be quite some masterfully femnazi trolling

IHeartPussyGunsMoney 6y ago

So ancient Indians and Middle Easterners were right? Hmmm I wonder what else they said...

thewrecker8 6y ago

Daddy is a retired boomer sitting on enough money to last another lifetime. His little girl is hitting her late 20s and he wants desperately to make her happy.

I love how everyone thinks all boomers are multimillionaires and rub elbows with Bill Gates. More than not are trying to figure out the rest of their life with what he has and can he afford to do it. Plus it's common for the brides father to kick in or pay for the wedding, that's your dowry. He wants her to be happy but LOL if anyone thinks he's going to pay you to do that. He knows your fucking his little girl any and every way shes going to let you get away with. AND hes going to pay you to do that. Good luck.

TheBunk_TB 6y ago

Weddings are woman's stuff. I seldom if ever see anything appealing to men at weddings. Unless you count gay men.

Imperator_Red 6y ago

Not all. Not most. Just a lot. And who said anything about Bill Gates? A nest egg of a few million in retirement could easily accomplish this.

thewrecker8 6y ago

I'm not sure you're aware of how hard it is to save a few million.

Imperator_Red 6y ago

It’s not uncommon at all for upper middle class employees nearing retirement age.

thewrecker8 6y ago

Well I guess if you only screen by upper middle class parents or better then you have something there.

theomniscience24 6y ago

Where I'm from, the man pays the dowry, LOL! but it's different because the result is that only the man can initiate a divorce.

LateralThinker13 6y ago

Dowry gives the wife's family an incentive to rein in her urges and keep her in the marriage, if only to keep their investment partially under their control.

SirBlankFace 6y ago

Sounds optimal only if you're well off for the reason being you hold all the cards. You don't have to marry nor are you obligated to. With money and status you're a catch and can have anyone you wanted. You have options (though in such a position you're only ever gonna attract the very women who would divorce rape you). Them knowing this, a women would happily take the gamble and comply with the dowry, she'll go running to her parents about how she truly loves you then butter or guilt them into complying. Her parents will hate you, but fuck them, we all know who's side they'll pick in any spat. They're your enemy either way.

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trueliberal1 6y ago

Let's say you earn $40k/yr after taxes in year 0 dollars, around the median income. Let's say you work 45 years. That's $1.8m. If a woman can take half your assets after divorce, that's a $900k dowry just to break even. If you have to pay alimony, that cuts into retirement benefits as well. So the dowry would have to be over a million dollars just to break even, and that's with a terrible income of only $40k/yr after taxes.

A more realistic dowry would have to be $3 million to truly mitigate the financial risk of divorce for anyone earning a decent living. No father is going to pay $3 million to marry off his daughter. Damn few fathers could.

Even then, the dowry would not cover the risk of you doing very well before or even after the divorce. Men have had to pay higher alimonies when they get higher incomes after the divorce.

Imperator_Red 6y ago

Let's say you work 45 years. That's $1.8m. If a woman can take half your assets after divorce, that's a $900k

How much thought did you put into this analysis? You are assuming that every penny the man makes is invested and there is no consumption.

You also forgot to discount the future cash flows.

trueliberal1 6y ago

It's an approximation. Most of your consumption will be in housing, not food. And for dowry purposes, since it's effectively insurance, you err on the side of safety which is to over-cover.

thewrecker8 6y ago

If you take home 45K a year after taxes you're not saving anywhere near 1.8 mil in assets. You have a mortgage? Home insurance? Car payments and insurance? Food, entertainment. One kid? Average cost in the US to raise a baby to 18 is about 250K. Helping out with college? Etc etc. Etc.