so let get this straight.. all those serious relationships i see around me, that involves alpha males with hot chicks, they arent so perfect as they seem? what does it mean that the relationship will suck and fail? is it that black and white? either the woman cheats and not attracted or she is attracted as hell but the relationship fails?

Interesting perspective, OP, considering intimacy requires, by its very definition, the participation of BOTH people to even occur. One does not "give" intimacy. One participates in it, only, necessarily, as a mutual participant. It's not a commodity to be tossed around and traded. It's an emergent property.

The vast majority of people of people on this subreddit would do extremely well to take a good hard look at the solid, peer-reviewed journaled research studies on childhood trauma, secure attachment, development of empathy and appropriate boundaries, and the related personality disorders (i.e. Axis II, Cluster B in the DSM IV) instead of this TRP pseudo-psychology.

Yes, there's a difference between liking, loving and lusting after someone.

Eh......I don't buy this notion that she "likes" the betas but is sexually attracted to the alphas.

Women despise the betas.....you said it yourself, they lie to them, they don't open up to them like they do to the alphas emotionally.

If women "liked" betas, they would still go for the alphas but treat the betas kindly and with respect. It would also mean that women value qualities of virtue. They DONT. Women don't respect betas, they not only reject them but treat them like scum of the earth, and when you don't respect someone, you can't like them. Them saying they like betas is just hamstering rationalizing.

Women don't even go for nice confident alpha guy.....aka the guy who is alpha but yet has enough beta willing to commit.

Look at some of the hard core frame tests women will use after a display of confidence and alphaness by the man .......the variety of her getting serious and emotionally upset saying you don't give a crap about her......well if you qualify yourself and show one ounce of actually feeling like you care for her feelings to that test, then she nexts you.

Women are looking for the guys to get into relationships with who aren't good relationship material. Let's not kid ourselves.

Women lie to their chump husbands. They hide their past. They cheat.

Yes, AWALT. Still, this was painful to read. It brought back memories of my Dad and Mom- but I was comforted that even in my Bluest days I would have never tolerated this:

They barely have two words for him when he walks in the door after a hard day at work. They can’t stand to put their cell phones down for three seconds when he’s talking. They’d rather sit in front of the TV with their men than actually talk to them, and when they do talk, it’s usually a one-sided affair where the man listens while she complains.

The Blue Pill runs every bit as deep as the Red Pill.

this sub is for men who never grew up. face it. you're here because you got hurt/ left/ cheated on/ mistreated/ no closure etc. and now you're here looking for answers. i got the answer summarized in one short sentence: Don't be a bitch.

Now this is easy to say but implementing this into your daily life is more difficult because it takes mental development as well. It refers to a broad spectrum of being a "bitch". And you know exactly when you acted like a bitch once before your ex-gf. Essentially, overall great advice here, but it all comes down to being a grown up, hard-working, well-respected, not bitching, not being a bitch, manning up for what's right, speaking up, speaking your mind and not be afraid like a bitch, man. that's what it's all about what women love. They don't want someone who is bitter or bitches. You yourself know when you encounter someone who seems frustrated and bitches a lot. You don't enjoy being around someone like that, do you? your attitude needs to change from boy to man. i used to make excuses, and now i don't anymore. bitch-like behavior patterns need to be abandoned. some things i just cannot turn off because it is part of my personality, so i do gossip sometimes-maybe because at that point i'm bitter and need to let it out on others by trash talking, which a real man shouldn't. i sometimes catch myself being occupied with stuff only a bitch would do. anyhow, i am responsible for everything that goes on in my life. I've dated numerous women all kinds of ages and at the end every relationship and how it turned out (good/ or bad) it was all because of what I was doing. I looked at my bitter breakups; in retrospect I know where I went wrong, and I had coming for me what I created. Now I cannot even believe how my ex-gf stayed with me for so long. Back then I thought I was entitled to her love no matter how I behave- she will love me- wrong. I slipped being a real man, and you and I both lose respect for someone who acts like a bitch. Especially women because it's in their genes to want a man. It's nature- and just common sense. A woman never determines the course of a relationship, you do. They decide if they want to stay with you, but you cannot lose if you keep it real. Women won't leave you if you provide her with physical, but the most important one, emotional security. I've seen lots of my relationships turn sour in the past because I wasn't available emotionally. And women need that. They turn on you if you don't provide that. That's what keeps their attention. By letting someone run over you, you allow them to do that. Don't be that person anymore and be real with everything you do. Experience is key. I needed to get my heart broken to get a whole new perspective on women and dating. I've become very selective, and I'm good being alone, I don't fear being left anymore. Always opens up the opportunity for some new women to date. I don't even want a relationship now because I know a good woman is very hard to find. Take your time, and go out, find someone you get along with and you're golden. Connecting with someone on a non-sexual basis, and starting to maybe fall in love with that person in the process is the best feeling you can get. Feels good to be a man today.

It's startling to see this behavior coming from one of my plates. She at least 'seems' to be completely open and honest with me. It is especially startling to see it from the perspective of a former AFC.

One of the harshest truths for me to personally accept was that men and women are not, in fact, equal. By any definition of the word. But especially within the realm of honesty.

I think this is blue pill nonsense and does not belong on RP. Liking someone and being attracted to someone isn't two different things. Women settle because they have no options and they want to have a provider for a more comfortable life not because they like him. Women don't like beta bux they hate them.

Great post. A lot of guys trying to be alpha go cold and shut themselves down to the point of stifling that emotional intimacy that may come along with great sex. There can be intimacy with a plate, and it's more enjoyable when uninhibited.

Maybe she just felt comfortable since she knew that wasn’t a “real relationship.” Maybe she was hoping something she said would win that douchebag over. Whatever.

You were driving home an important part, but then started hamstering here. No, women can come up with meaningless rationalizations like this, but there is no truth here. They share with these men because they feel like it.

But women know something a lot of men need a little more education to figure out: Sexual attraction is completely separate from whether or not you like someone.

Not really. At least not for women.

Women fuck the men that they love (and hope for commitment).

Men marry/nurture the women that they love (and hope for sex).

Women marry/extract resources from men they don't love (and withhold sex).

Men pump-n-dump the women they don't love (withhold commitment).

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I have a similar situation with my girlfriend. She appears to be open and honest with me completely. Like I could be her AF and BB. Just earlier this week conversation got a little serious about end game and she told me, "All I've ever wanted is to be a good wife and mom." I didn't expect that at all, I was stunned for a second.

Let's see if actions follow her words.

I don't think I'm "alpha" or "beta" but I'm independent and do pretty well and I'm only interested in women I can connect with physically and emotionally, and neither seems to be a problem.

I think the alpha/beta dichotomy needs to be retired. It's too constraining and not accurate, as there is a sliding scale.

"The point is, she didn’t just give those sex-only partners from her past her best sex. She also gave them her best emotional intimacy."

This feeds well into a point I've been making. During her Alpha Fucks phase she is giving her sex for "free" in hopes of making this guy her life partner and it's a given that this guy is more of a "King Alpha". She's in her prime and seeking the "top dog".

Her first step in her decline as a woman is facing the Wall where she realizes:

SHE WILL NEVER GET THE KING ALPHA

Only after she accepts her "loss" does she accept a Beta Bucks. Now over time she has a couple of kids with this Beta Bucks guy (who is a good provider but lacks any animal magnetism) but she is bored and lacking the emotional excitement she had in her prime when she was chasing "King Alpha" as her all-in-one solution.

It's at this point that the lower status Alpha... the guy with the animal instincts, but without the status that the "King Alpha" possesses... enters her life as a distraction from her boredom. This guy actually thinks he's doing pretty well with this post-Wall woman with a couple of kids BUT she does OWN the house if she Divorce Rapes the Beta Bucks, so he sees potential.

• So our "last stage Alpha" is a different man than our "King Alpha".

.

The last stage Alpha is attracted by the material benefits the woman can provide for HIM.

To the last stage Alpha the woman becomes like his Beta Bucks.

(I've seen this happen... wealthy widows are attractive to guys that want the big house)

In response to one of the fuckhats who bitched at us for objectifying women:

We don't have an unrealistic social justice filter.

Women are not men and are not like men.

We realize that most people on earth don't see other people as 'people' in the social justice sense of the word.

People who ate striving for 'equality' say equality but mean 'advantage for us'.

Some women, social and ethnic minorities do this.

Thinking of women and men as equivalent is a false consciousness thrust upon men and women by deluded and self-serving jerks running various social movements.

It hurts many men and many women. I guess the lie provides real advantage to SOMEONE but I don't know who.

We treat other men AND women like resources because they are.

We would love it if the social justice/feminist fairy tale was all non-fiction, helpful and true.

It ain't. Women are objects and will destroy me if I follow the rules mainstream society drops on me.

If it helps, know that women generally see us as objects too.

Life is brutal. We just think being mindful of this is better than lying to ourselves about it.

holyfuck, writing all this because you cant get da pussy? lawl such anger

I dont get how this is helpful. The only thing this does is support the theory of "assholes finish first".

This does nothing but make me want to be said asshole to at least get the comfort of touching a woman.

Marriage certificates should have a line:

By signing these agreement you acknowledge that you are no longer entitled to sex from her.

Man I was just thinking about how there's all this hatred lately for women and the current "society." Negative talk about feminism and the current cultural trends, etc etc. Women are acting like women. It's not a construct of society. Maybe "society" in the past altered women's natural behaviors, but you can't blame women for acting how they are wired to behave.

Guess what, if society accepted that men could marry a woman with no financial consequences, and that she would stick with him for his life even while he went out and banged other chicks, guess who would be acting more like their natural state?

If you're angry at women for being fickle, you have to change your paradigm. Change your way of thinking. As Patrice would say, you can't be mad at a pet fish for not loving you.

This is so true. I've never had a plate, lasting longer than a few fucks, who DIDN'T start trying to ramp up the emotional intimacy. When women say they can Fuck Like Men Now they are kidding themselvesd after binging on Sex and the City. They always get attached unless it ends after 1-2 fucks (aka ONS)

She assumes it’s because he sucks and doesn’t do enough for her

Eventually, first there's the guilty phase, where she blames herself for not wanting the guy.

Eventually all women will go one of two ways at the end of this phase. She'll either leave the guy in a respectful manner, because she realizes it's not her fault and the guy is decent at heart, just not sexually attractive. Or, if for whatever reason she can't leave, she'll grow resentful of the guy and start blaming him for her shitty situation. She can only keep that hamster locked up for so long, eventually, it's going to all be his fault, and he's going to pay.

Curious how this translates to simple human psychology.

Funny thing is, back before I swallowed the pill I gave the girls I had the lesser chances with my best emotional intimacy, with sensual try-hard blue pill sex. Now, my plates get the least emotional intamacy I've ever given women and I fuck them in the most degrading ways I can get away with WITHOUT trying to satisfy them....and they can't get enough.

Maybe we are just wired to try harder, be more vulnerable, aka take more risks for things that we perceive are difficult for us to attain because that gives them higher value in our minds?

You cannot negotiate desire.

It's a sidebarred topic. As our 'locker room' (great epithet) has grown, it's important to hammer this point home.

If you want emotional intimacy from anyone (friend, family, girl you're seeing), you need to be the type of person who someone wants intimacy from. Why? Because how do you get more intimate with someone? You 'give' them more intimacy; you open yourself up, you show them your best side, you do things for them.

If you want to avoid being in any sexual relationship where you aren't getting a girl's emotional best, you have to be the person who she desperately wants to give her best to. You need to be kind and warm, supportive and inspiring, resourceful, fun, and interesting.

The 'problem' on TRP is that there is a steady influx of newcomers. That's not a problem, as it's good that more people get exposed not only to some harsh realities about the world, but some weighty concepts that require critical thinking but help you deal with that reality.

That continuous influx, however, means that there's always a large number of people in the first stage of swallowing the pill: anger.

Therefore, we have a lot of posts on how stoic, how aloof and independent, how resilient you have to be as a man. How you can't pedestalize women, why it's time for No More Mr. Nice Guy, why you want to be on the left-hand side of 'AF/BB'.

That's all well and good, but the also necessary content on how you need to be someone people want to be around is less prevalent.

To get anyone's emotional best (especially a girl you're fucking, dating, or in a committed relationship with), you have to be:

• in shape
• in a good mental state (this gets termed 'frame' here)
• kind and emotionally responsive (without veering too far and crossing over into being needy or hyper-attentive)
• a good steward of your time (always doing something valuable)
• interesting

Be an awesome person. The "loving husband" described in the OP who receives "nagging, lies, and disrespect" is someone who hasn't figured out the healthy balance.

The idea of "alpha" that gets tossed around on this sub seems to be some tall, dark, and handsome guy who's always broody and sullen, smiles rarely, speaks in a gruff voice, and doesn't talk to a single girl who isn't sleeping with him.

The piece that's missing is that you need to be someone who's so on top of his shit that anyone in your life can't help but wish they could spend more time with you. That applies broadly; it's way more meaningful than how it applies to girls alone.

I lived through this. I spent years doing it the wrong way, and when I woke up, I realized how tainted my interactions with each person in my life were. I've seen it termed "monk mode" here. It isn't an overnight process, but as you continually rework yourself into a better person, your financial position, relationships, friendships, social status, familial connections, and professional trajectory will all improve.

Love yourself, and other people will start to as well.

Make no mistake, women are perfectly capable of hamstering a reality in which marrying a man they're not sexually attracted to is a good thing. They'll say things like "Ours is a more mature love, unlike the frivolous lust of youth", when in truth it's merely an attempt to rationalize why they ought to be happy with their unattractive beta.

Arguably the most common form of dissonance most women experience is in rationalizing why they're not happy when on paper the nice guy they're with ought to be perfect.

It's my personal opinion that the only way to maintain a lasting monogamous relationship today is to be several points SMV higher than your woman.

"...no sane woman is going to marry a guy who’s no good for her..."

This is a major problem that's rarely addressed around here.

There's a whole lot of non-sane women running around, and acting insanely. This is why it's so important to be very selective and not just say fuck it, AWALT so what does it matter how crazy my LTR is.

Knowing her as a real person, emotional nakedness is perhaps more intimate than physical nakedness. Shows you are not just her alpha fucks, but her patriarch, you own a piece of her soul, but here is the catch, you don't know her emotional nakedness, until you have seen her naked, get this into your head. Beta bux doesn't even know her as a person on any level.

The thing is, guys who are eager to commit themselves to one woman – especially a slutty woman – generally aren’t the kind of guys most women are sexually attracted to. Part of the reason they’re so willing to enter into a committed relationship is the fact that they lack options with women.

The frosting on an incredible post, well done OP

You can absolutely be the righteous prince of her heart, but you have to be objectively attractive, in fact working on yourself is more important than being the cocky asshole.

But back when she was fucking hot douchebags, she was honest and emotionally open. She’d tell the men she fucked about her past, her kinks, her hopes and dreams, and share all of her thoughts honestly. Maybe she just felt comfortable since she knew that wasn’t a “real relationship.” Maybe she was hoping something she said would win that douchebag over. Whatever. The point is, she didn’t just give those sex-only partners from her past her best sex. She also gave them her best emotional intimacy. She was her most honest, her most open, her most uninhibited, and her most generous and giving with them.

This is the central message of the post and I could not agree more. When I got out of long term relationship and started stringing together hookup partners I was shocked by women's honesty. I like dumbfounded how open they were about their sexual past, desires, personal life, etc.

She’d tell the men she fucked about her past, her kinks, her hopes and dreams, and share all of her thoughts honestly.

Can one assume then that if a woman you haven't slept with yet talks openly about these subjects to you, that she is implying she is sexually attracted to you?

There are so few posts about women that don't include hate and disgust and contempt, and this is one of them. Hating a woman because she doesn't like your beta shit is like hating your dog for running away, even though you don't feed him. She knows it would make logical sense for her to love you because you show her all this love and spend all your time and money on her and make it clear everyday how much you need her in your life, but she can't force herself to genuinely love you. Just like how a woman can be great relationship material but her weight and face keeps men from being with her. No (normal) person is gonna judge you because you don't want a fat, ugly bitch, women shouldn't be judged for not wanting that submissive beta faggot.

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But back when she was fucking hot douchebags, she was honest and emotionally open. She’d tell the men she fucked about her past, her kinks, her hopes and dreams, and share all of her thoughts honestly. Maybe she just felt comfortable since she knew that wasn’t a “real relationship.

This is so true. I have mostly been the douchebag mysterious lover. The guy she is deeply intimate with. She shares all her kinks with. Things she would never tell her beta hubby. Things her alpha won't let her. MFM

quite possibly one of the best posts i've seen on here in a long time

They’d rather sit in front of the TV with their men than actually talk to them, and when they do talk, it’s usually a one-sided affair where the man listens while she complains.

Poor bastard. That's why it's always smart to have a sock on hand, in case you need to shove it in her mouth.

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Thank you for writing this.

This made a lot of sense to me.

I'm not someone who posts here a lot, but this was surprisingly important for me to read.

The point is, she didn’t just give those sex-only partners from her past her best sex. She also gave them her best emotional intimacy. She was her most honest, her most open, her most uninhibited, and her most generous and giving with them.

Her loving husband receives her nagging, her lies, her disrespect, and the top of her head when she won’t look up from her cell phone. But at least she actually likes him.

Fucking. Brutal. So good I'm going to sit back, let this sink in, and re-read it in a bit. Great post.

This is so true. This is happening to me right now. Basically, I've entered into an affair with a woman I had my eye on since the first day I met her. We've been fucking like animals. She wants everything done to her. And she is completely in love with me. She said if she wasn't with her husband she would be dating me. She cares what I think about her, that I don't think she's a bad person for cheating. The most telling thing is that she says she doesn't have a bad marriage -in fact she described it as "a really good relationship"- and that she still has sex with her husband...it's just that I giver her something he doesn't. What is it? Who knows, I didn't ask. The point is that I'm sharing this super sexual and super emotional bond with her, with both elements inextricably intertwined.